Is there enough work for illustrators? The truth about illustration jobs in 2025 - a rising tide floats all boats 🚢🚢🚢

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Good Ship Illustration – "Is There Enough Work for Illustrators? The Truth About Illustration Jobs in 2025 - A Rising Tide Floats All Boats 🚢🚢🚢"

Release Date: March 7, 2025
Hosts: Helen Stephens, Katie Chappell, Tania Willis
Podcast: The Good Ship Illustration

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1. Introduction: Debating the Illustration Job Market

The episode kicks off with a continuation of a previously heated debate between Katie Chappell and Tania Willis regarding the availability of work for illustrators. Tania references a clash of opinions where Katie asserted, "there's loads of work for illustrators," while Tania contended the opposite, noting a quiet year and widespread dissatisfaction among illustrators.

Tanya [00:25]: "It's been a really quiet year. Lots of people are really cheesed off."

2. Katie’s Response: Introducing the Jobs Board

In response to the criticism of her earlier stance, Katie introduces her innovative solution—a dedicated jobs board tailored for illustrators. She recounts her initial experiment in 2024, where she attempted scaling her operations akin to an agency model with a team of 24 illustrators. Although successful in securing ample work, the endeavor proved unsustainable, leading to burnout.

Katie [01:29]: "I have had the weird problem of still having more work than I can do... it was very fun, lots of jobs, but really, really, really stressful."

Determined to provide a more sustainable solution, Katie launched a jobs board in early 2025. Her approach involved sharing available illustration jobs without disclosing client details, thereby respecting client privacy while offering illustrators direct access to opportunities.

Katie [01:34]: "I was like, if I can figure a way to share the work, share the job without giving the client's details away... it was genius."

3. The Success of the Jobs Board

Katie's jobs board quickly gained traction, with listings appearing almost daily. Illustrators appreciated seeing available budgets, which not only informed their pricing strategies but also fostered a community-wide uplift in rate standards.

Katie [02:56]: "It's been like a job every other day. A job a day sometimes."

Cassandra [02:56]: "Price to see what people are charging, what people are paying."

The platform facilitated transparency in pricing, allowing illustrators like Cassandra to adjust their rates significantly.

Katie [14:04]: "A lady, a nice lady called Cassandra, said she'd upped her day rate by hundreds. Just by seeing it."

4. Variety of Illustration Jobs Available

The discussion highlights the diverse range of illustration jobs listed on Katie's board. These include data visualization projects, such as visualizing survey results, and large-scale print projects for institutions like the Australian university and the British Library.

Katie [03:25]: "One was like to visualize the results of a survey. So it's data visualization."

Katie [09:42]: "Google. I had a nice stint at the end of last year. It was the London Philharmonic Orchestra and the Shakespeare Globe Theatre."

5. Live Illustration: Opportunities and Challenges

A significant portion of the conversation delves into live illustration—a dynamic form of illustration performed in real-time at events and conferences. Katie explains the demanding nature of live illustrating, which often involves extended periods of drawing, punctuated by short breaks.

Katie [04:54]: "Sometimes it is a bit like that. If it's a big long conference... it'll be like two hours of drawing and then a little coffee break."

The hosts discuss the technical and creative challenges involved, such as producing time-lapse animations of the drawings and managing client expectations regarding edits.

Katie [05:15]: "You rub them out. So you do have to tell them like it's chronological... it's just not working out."

6. Managing Client Expectations and Technical Setup

Katie emphasizes the importance of clear communication with clients, especially regarding the technical aspects of live illustration. She notes that clients typically have their own AV teams to handle broadcasting, reducing the technical burden on the illustrator.

Katie [07:22]: "The client usually has an audio, visual and AV team to sort all that... you might have to do a tech check before the event."

7. Skill Development and Repetitive Tasks in Illustration

The hosts touch upon the repetitive nature of certain illustration tasks, such as drawing common symbols or themes like viruses during the COVID-19 pandemic and AI-related imagery in recent projects. This repetition underscores the importance of developing a robust library of assets to streamline workflow.

Katie [08:15]: "It used to be a virus image because Covid do loads and loads of them. Now it's AI things."

8. High-Profile Clients and Career Growth

Katie shares her experiences working with prestigious clients, including Apple, Adobe, Google, the London Philharmonic Orchestra, and the British Library. These collaborations not only enhance her portfolio but also validate her expertise in the industry.

Katie [09:42]: "I had a nice stint at the end of last year... British Library."

9. Future Endeavors: Live Illustration Course

Looking ahead, Katie discusses her plans to launch a live illustration course. This initiative aims to equip aspiring illustrators with the necessary skills and confidence to pursue live illustration opportunities.

Katie [10:22]: "I'm working on it now. I made a big list of what's going to go in it."

Tania expresses enthusiasm about the course, recognizing its potential to bridge gaps in graphic visual communication.

10. Final Thoughts: Community Support and Resources

The episode concludes with Katie promoting her jobs board, available on her Substack for a nominal fee. The platform not only provides job listings but also serves as a resource for illustrators to benchmark their rates and secure meaningful work.

Katie [13:54]: "If you Google Katie Draws... Jobs Board pops up, it's only £7 a month."

Katie [14:09]: "It ups your rates... just by seeing it."

The hosts reinforce the idea that a supportive community and accessible resources are crucial for illustrators navigating the evolving job market.

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Notable Quotes:

• Tanya [00:25]: "It's been a really quiet year. Lots of people are really cheesed off."
• Katie [01:34]: "...share the work, share the job without giving the client's details away."
• Cassandra [02:56]: "Price to see what people are charging, what people are paying."
• Katie [04:54]: "Sometimes it is a bit like that... two hours of drawing and then a little coffee break."
• Katie [10:22]: "I'm working on it now. I made a big list of what's going to go in it."

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Conclusion

This episode of The Good Ship Illustration provides a comprehensive exploration of the current state and future prospects of illustration careers. Through candid discussions, practical solutions like Katie's jobs board, and insights into live illustration, the hosts offer valuable guidance for illustrators seeking to navigate a competitive and dynamic industry landscape. The emphasis on community support, continuous skill development, and strategic career planning underscores the podcast's commitment to empowering illustrators in their creative journeys.

Transcript

[Tanya]

So following up from the controversial week where Katie and I had a clash of opinions where she said there's loads of work for illustrators and I said there's not. It's been a really quiet year. Lots of people are really cheesed off. So Katie has come up with this genius idea of sharing where the work is with us and it's in like. Well, it's in her specialism. Do you want to talk about it?

[Katie]

Yeah. I mean, so yeah, that's the thing. Last year I made a post saying there's loads of work for illustrators. If you're not getting any work, just tweak these three things. And then I got a few. I got two comments of people being like, you're wrong. Which I completely. It's valid. Valid. They've had a bad year. A lot of people had a bad year. Last year. I have had the weird problem of still having more work than I can do. And I talked about how in 2024 I'd really tried scaling almost like an agency model, having a big team, three salaried employees, 24 illustrators. And it was very fun, lots of jobs, but really, really, really stressful, overwhelming, Frazzled myself. I didn't properly burn out, but I was like, if I hadn't stopped when I did, I probably would have fully burned out.

[Tanya]

But anyway, all you had a one year old child at, you were doing all your jobs as well and running this.

[Katie]

Yeah, too many things. Too many things and good ship. This is what happens when you get excited. Just do too much. But in January this year, 2025. So last month there was a week on Instagram where I'd give. I'd been posting on stories like, oh, this jobs come in, it's in Edinburgh. Is anybody a live illustrator? And I think I'd given away three jobs that week. And I just put on Instagram sort of jokerly on a poll like, should I start a jobs board? And it was 100% yes. Like 200 people responded, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And I was like, huh. So sipping my LEM sip because tis the season of colds. And then I just thought, I'm going to try doing the jobs board thing because I was like, if I can figure out a way to share the work, share the job without giving the client's details away because they would. They don't want to be bombarded with loads of illustrators directly. But if they've got the results in a spreadsheet, that's going to be really nice for them. And if the Illustrators get the opportunity to apply for jobs that I can't do and then if I have nothing to do with it, it's literally like, if the client contacts you, it's your job. So anyway, that was the idea and then genius. So I just made it the paid bit on my sub stack. And since then it's been like a job every other day. A job a day sometimes. And people have been getting jobs off. I got my first. I put a call out, I was like, if you've got a job off the jobs board, let me know. And then some people have just joined to say that they like seeing the budgets that are available as well.

[Cassandra]

Price to see what people are charging, what people are paying.

[Katie]

Yeah. Because on my. When people get in touch, I ask them what to budget. Some people don't tell me. But actually very rare now. But the. It's either under 2,000 pounds or between 2 to 5,000 pounds. 5 to 10 or over 10.

[Cassandra]

So they just pick. They tick a box.

[Katie]

Yeah, they tick a box, exactly. And then. And sometimes they've got a very specific budget. There was one where another illustrator dropped out and they were like, we've got £900 for this job. So I was just like, okay, that's good. Yeah. So, yeah.

[Tanya]

And not all of them are livescribing. Some of them are. How do you. How would you describe.

[Katie]

Yes. One was like to visualize the results of a survey. So it's data visualization.

[Tanya]

Yeah. Done in your own time. Really. A kind of graphic illustration combo job.

[Katie]

Yeah. Oh, there was one for an Australian university. They wanted to, like, sum up something and print it out big.

[Tanya]

Yeah.

[Katie]

So.

[Cassandra]

And other live illustration jobs. In person or online?

[Katie]

Mostly in person. Yeah. Because the online ones are the ones that I still want to do, so I keep them.

[Tanya]

As you should.

[Katie]

Except there's an Australian one I like. I can't do that time zone. So the. An Australian online one went on the board and a lot of them are mostly the. The top reason for people joining and then leaving has been like, because there's loads of UK jobs. But I'm like, I don't know where they're going to come from. I'm not psychic, but I'm in the uk, so they're mostly uk, but it's been fun. And some people have said that seeing the. Just seeing the budgets without even joining the jobs board has made them up their rates.

[Cassandra]

That's fantastic.

[Katie]

Which was kind. It's like a side effect that I'm really, really happy about because when one Person starts charging properly. Everybody can.

[Cassandra]

And it helps everybody out.

[Tanya]

Helps rising tide floats or boats.

[Katie]

Yes.

[Tanya]

It's so good. I just love watching it. And then I start thinking, well, maybe I'll be a live illustrator. I could do some murals or any of the non live things. Because I always think live scribing sounds scary. So in my head that's you drawing solidly for eight hours like a maniac. I mean, how much drawing, what happens? How does it work?

[Katie]

I mean sometimes it is a bit like that. If it's a big long conference and it's got five sessions over the day, it'll be like two hours of drawing and then a little coffee break and then an hour of drawing and then a lunch break and then two hours of drawing and then a coffee break and then an hour of drawing. So it is really full on.

[Tanya]

And what's the outcome say of 2 hours drawing? Is it an animation?

[Katie]

Yeah. So you get the still drawing. So it's like a big picture.

[Cassandra]

Are you making those on your iPad?

[Katie]

Yeah. Do not on iPad. And then the. If you're working in procreate, it creates a time lapse anyway.

[Tanya]

So that's done your animation. They can see all your bits, even the ones that went wrong.

[Katie]

And you rub them out. So you do have to tell them like it's chronological. So if you want changes, they just get plopped on the end and I can edit it, but it's a pain in the bum. So they've got to pay for that. But yeah.

[Tanya]

Is editing really difficult at the end? Do you need a high level of tech skill to do that?

[Katie]

I would say you do. It's such a pain. Especially when they want loads of changes.

[Cassandra]

If they want you to edit the time lapse.

[Katie]

Yeah. If they. They're like, oh, we need that to actually appear at the start. And I'm just like, no.

[Tanya]

Why?

[Katie]

And I've experimented with like hiring an editor in the past. Yeah. But communicating to them how and giving them all the bits they need and that's. It's just not working out. But yeah.

[Tanya]

So you need a certain amount of tech knowledge yourself to be able to do this.

[Katie]

Yeah. But then again some, a lot of clients just want it on paper. Like all the pen and paper and paints on a board. Yeah. And I don't like doing that because I always think it's definitely good. It's going to go in the bin at the end.

[Cassandra]

Yeah. So would they be doing it on a flip chart or something? What would they be drawing it on?

[Katie]

Well, that's the thing, it's. It's a lot of the time clients want on foam board, which is plastic.

[Cassandra]

Yeah.

[Katie]

And you can recycle foam board if it's clean and it's not clean because you painted all over it. So that's tricky. But you can get like a cardboard one that's more eco friendly. But even then I'm like, it's just such a waste and silly.

[Tanya]

Yeah, yeah.

[Cassandra]

And they can't do anything with it afterwards. If you've done it on your iPad, they can use. Or they can ask you for the rights to use those drawings.

[Katie]

Yeah, exactly. And that's what I'm always saying. I'm like, you can be sending it, you can be posting it on LinkedIn before people have even left the room.

[Tanya]

Exactly.

[Katie]

So it takes a bit of this.

[Tanya]

Sort of paper or stuff on phone boards. Is that's in person, old school, standing there in front of a conference drawing in your human, as you say, in your meat suit.

[Katie]

Yeah. In the room. Yeah. And then the thing, when it's digital, you're in the room with the iPad. But part of me is like, I could be at home, why have you got me here?

[Tanya]

But that's the tech bit. Is the broadcasting from your iPad. Does the client deal with that setup or do you have to come with a lot of knowledge?

[Katie]

That's a good question. Somebody asked this the other day. They were like, if I'm not doing any of the tech, then do I charge less? And I was like, no. The client usually has an audio, visual and AV team to sort all that. And all you have to do is log in. You might have to do a tech check before the event, which is fine, but they'll be like, oh yeah, we're patch you in at this time. And like, here's your special link. And the mic. Everyone's mic'd up. So you get like a good audio channel.

[Tanya]

Is it stressful? Do you do bad drawings because you're nervous or did you to begin with?

[Katie]

Yeah. When I was starting out, I was really bad. I think everyone starts out really bad and you don't realize how bad you were until afterwards.

[Cassandra]

That's the same for all illustrators in every, every area of illustration, isn't it? Definitely. For me, you look at your learn.

[Katie]

On the job, cry.

[Cassandra]

Yeah. It's like an apprenticeship, isn't it? And are there any things that you have to draw again and again and again? So do you have like a whole catalog of how you would draw a phone or.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Cassandra]

What are your kind of top things that you draw again and again and again.

[Katie]

It used to be a virus image because Covid do loads and loads of them. Now it's AI things. So like AI symbols, AI robots, you know.

[Tanya]

Although that's really hard to simplify.

[Cassandra]

It is.

[Tanya]

This is like editorial illustration on steroids.

[Katie]

Data. Like people talk about data all the time. Say like, oh, how do you draw data?

[Cassandra]

How do you draw data?

[Katie]

I usually do like lots of zeros and ones. Ones. And if it's about capturing data or somebody with a net in the air capturing the data, or like if it's about clean data, like somebody scrubbing the data with a little soapy sponge, you just get to be stupid.

[Cassandra]

Well, that's why they want you, because this is kind of boring. And they want somebody with a brain like yours to draw a response because.

[Katie]

Who wants to read about cleaning data and getting good data sources.

[Tanya]

It's fascinating how important it has become to conferences as a must have add on to keep people engaged. I mean, what did they do before you had live scribing?

[Katie]

I don't know, honestly. My favorite conferences are when they've gone all out and they've got a sign language like a BSL person signing and live closed captions and a live illustrator. I'm just like, that is the coolest ever because it's so accessible, everybody can enjoy it. And it means you're not bored if you're there.

[Tanya]

And if you don't know which kind of clients Katie's done before, they are seriously impressive. Starting at the top with Apple, Adobe.

[Katie]

Google. I had a nice stint at the end of last year. It was the London Philharmonic Orchestra and the Shakespeare Globe Theatre. Within like a week I was like, British Library. British Library.

[Cassandra]

Bloomsbury.

[Katie]

Yeah, Bloomsbury. This is good.

[Cassandra]

You got good brainstorming all the Penguin things.

[Katie]

Penguin, Random House. Yeah. It's funny because he. I think, I think I've got desensitized now because I used to make a list of like, who do I want to work with? Who's my dream client?

[Cassandra]

Is there one left or have you done all of the ones on your.

[Katie]

The one elusive client was Adobe.

[Cassandra]

Yeah.

[Katie]

And then they got in touch and they booked me twice in one week. And I was like, oh, what am I gonna do now? Like, I just retired. I've got nothing to aim for.

[Tanya]

Proof that manifesting works. And if all this is confusing at some point, Katie's gonna do a live illustration course.

[Katie]

I'm working on it. I'm working on it now.

[Tanya]

Have you already started it's?

[Katie]

Behind the scenes. Yes. I made a big list of what's going to go in it. Yeah.

[Tanya]

Oh, I can't wait. I think I'm gonna do it as well.

[Katie]

Yeah, you should.

[Tanya]

Yeah. It's what mapping's a bit like it. It's that kind of graphic visual communication meetup of all those things. And mapping is. Is a language anyway. But yeah, it's kind of adjacent to live illustration.

[Cassandra]

I feel like it has a overlap with mine as well. Because on a school visit, I draw live. I draw what the children shout out. I feel like it has an overlap with me a little bit too.

[Katie]

You could do a bit about drawing in front of children workshops, maybe that kind of live illustration.

[Cassandra]

Of course. Yeah.

[Katie]

There's the live illustration as well, that sometimes people get in touch with me by mistake for, which is drawing fancy ladies in clothes in shops. So like, sometimes posh things like Prada and Gucci will hire a live illustrator to draw people at an opening night. So it's like live or like caricatures, kind of, but they're more like fashion illustrations. So everybody gets drawn all long and slinky and stylish. And people email me about that. I'm like, have you seen my work? It's not that. And I tried. I tried to do it once, never again.

[Tanya]

And would you put those on the job board?

[Katie]

People? Like, if somebody asked me about it, I would, but I think people are really switched on.

[Cassandra]

You're very clear about what your work is on your website. So I imagine that filters out people who are completely irrelevant.

[Katie]

Yeah, definitely. I did once get somebody in touch recently about a birthday party. And I was like, is there a keynote speaker at the birthday party? And they were like, my client really wants a live illiterate. And I was like, no, but really, look at my work. If there is a key, if this is an unusual birthday party and there's a keynote speaker, fine, I can draw the speech.

[Cassandra]

But there's Tanya, because Tanya's birthday, she's having a party soon. I'm imagining there might be a keynote speaker.

[Tanya]

My party organizer's such a twit. Wrong.

[Katie]

And eventually they back down. They're like, okay, yeah, I think you're right. I was like, I know. Thank you. Goodbye.

[Tanya]

Because there's that other one. They used to ask for it a lot when I was in Hong Kong, but I just hadn't got the nerve to do it. They'd have a big Christmas party for one of those huge corporates, and then they would say, can you come along? And draw on these huge boards. Like, draw what? I didn't really know. Oh, my God, that's absolutely terrifying. I couldn't do that. I've never been able to draw while people are watching me, so I may be held back a little.

[Cassandra]

You do Art Club now, though, Tanya?

[Katie]

Oh, yeah.

[Tanya]

I did draw a bit at Art Club. Yeah. But it was. Oh, once I was invited when I worked for the South China Morning Post. I went for the Christmas party. And so then we were at this big table with all the people I'd worked for at a distance. I only knew a few of them, but the main editor was this really glamorous Australian woman. And they said to me, right, as the illustrator, I want you to draw, do a cartoon of everyone at the table. I was like, do you want me to lose my job? And if I have to draw the glamorous editor, she's really glamorous. And I'm only going to end up insulting her with my bad drawing. It was so cringy. I mean, that was a trauma.

[Cassandra]

It's a separate skill in itself, that, isn't it? There are those people who go to parties and draw people. I don't know how they do it. It's incredible.

[Tanya]

I think, yeah, if you just do that one thing and you're good at it, I bet you get comfortable in it. But Jack of all trades.

[Katie]

No, I think that's part of the thing with illustration, like finding that bit of illustration that you're good at and honing in on it and doing it. Because live illustration is definitely not for everyone but people who can do it. It's a brilliant bit to be in.

[Tanya]

And if you're looking for Katie's jobs board, it's on her, the paid section of her substack.

[Katie]

I think if you Google Katie Draws.

[Tanya]

Jobs Board pops up, it's only £7amonth, which, if it's a £2,000 job, well worth it.

[Katie]

That's what I was thinking. You get one job off it, boom, it's paid for, like.

[Cassandra]

Or even if you don't get a job off it. But you see what everybody's willing to pay. That's really useful in itself.

[Katie]

Yeah, definitely. That ups your rates. Yeah. A lady, a nice lady called Cassandra, said she'd upped her day rate by hundreds.

[Tanya]

Brilliant.

[Katie]

Just by seeing it. So brilliant. Go, Cassandra, go. More Cassandras. But, yeah, have fun.

[Tanya]

Speak to you later.

[Cassandra]

Bye, Sa.