Tara Tayyebi Fard on finding her creative voice (and illustration career) after 10 years of being an architect

Summary

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Episode Overview

Podcast: The Good Ship Illustration
Episode: Tara Tayyebi Fard on finding her creative voice (and illustration career) after 10 years of being an architect
Date: February 6, 2026
Hosts: The Good Ship Illustration (Helen Stephens, Katie Chappell, Tania Willis)
Guest: Tara Tayyebi Fard, illustrator, humorist, architect, and violinist

Theme:
This episode features the journey of Tara Tayyebi Fard, a Persian illustrator who transitioned from a decade-long architecture career to discovering her illustration voice and career. The discussion centers on finding creative identity, community, overcoming societal expectations, and maintaining your unique "freak flag" as an artist. Tara and the hosts dive into creative confidence, the realities of freelance life, navigating commission work, and embracing what makes your art personal and meaningful.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Tara’s Journey from Architecture to Illustration

• Tara always loved drawing and kept diaries as a child, but was steered towards architecture due to her aptitude for math and the desire for a "safe" career.

  • “I was also, unfortunately, good at maths. So then people were like, well, you’re good at maths, you don’t have to go through an artistic career, so let’s do something that’s creative but not too creative. And that led me to architecture.” (03:16)

• Losing her architecture job during a crisis gave Tara time to reconsider her path, travel, and reconnect with drawing:

  • “At some point I realized I don’t have a job now, but I’m really struggling and I’m really trying hard to get this job that doesn’t pay well, that I don’t like… What am I really trying so hard to get? If I’m not going to earn, well, at least I would rather have fun.” (06:22)

• Joining the Good Ship Illustration and engaging with its community was a pivotal step in rediscovering her creative self and entering illustration professionally.

  • “I came across your YouTube channel, and that led me to the Good Ship... Only a few days later, you were opening your doors to the picture book course. And I thought, this is amazing. I’m just gonna do it. And then my life basically changed since then.” (03:43)

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2. Finding and Embracing a Creative Voice

• Reflecting on childhood interests provided crucial insights.

  • Tara explores what delighted her as a kid—humor, observing people, recording quirks—which now inform her unique approach to illustration and character design.
  • “When you look at my drawings, it’s always happy and funny. And the thing is, I’ve always been really annoyed all the time, all my life. As a kid, I was really annoyed by some things that people did... I wrote about them and I drew them.” (07:33)

• Accepting and showcasing personal quirks—aka “flying your freak flag”—is not only allowed but essential for attracting the right clients and community.

  • “If you make the work that is based on your own freak flag, then you get commissioned to do the same thing. And also you get the client that is the dream client.” (14:35)

• Not everything from childhood will translate directly, but key emotional tones and observations (humor, character, visual boldness) transfer into Tara’s professional work.

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3. The Importance of Creative Community

• Tara describes how the Good Ship community fostered connections, both online and in person, turning a solitary pursuit into a social one:

  • “I have more friends than I used to have back in the day when everybody met in person... I still managed to find a good trooper who lives in the same city, and we meet almost every month.” (09:38, 10:15)

• The support and kindness within the illustration community are ongoing sources of motivation and creative reassurance.

  • “It’s just so beautiful how big the community is.” (10:37)
  • “I don’t think I can ever get enough of reminders that I’m not alone. Always need to be reassured.” (10:55)

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4. Navigating Creative and Professional Challenges

• Tara and the hosts share struggles with prioritizing personal versus commission work, creative block, and maintaining self-care when deadlines and emotions clash.

  • “If I’m feeling absolutely horrible about things, I cannot draw. But if I’m feeling a little bit sad or a little bit horrible, then I can make something meaningful. It’s difficult.” (13:14)
  • “Being alive is hard enough. Might as well do some fun stuff before you die.” (07:04)

• The “hamster wheel” of freelance illustration—get work, market work, seek more work—can make it hard to step off and reclaim personal creative direction.

• External validation (e.g., job titles, parental approval) is not an indicator of authentic fulfillment.

  • “I don’t think I was successful in architecture, but nobody minded it…because the title architect sounds so good.” (29:12)

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5. Attracting the Right Clients by Being Yourself

• By unapologetically creating her kind of work (e.g., playful, characterful depictions—drawing people "fat, with big noses, wrinkles"), Tara attracts dream collaborations.

  • “This client that I’m working with is…so supportive…they didn’t want anything traditional. They really allowed me to be myself, and that’s why they hired me.” (15:02)
  • “I’m allowed to draw them fat. It’s amazing.” (16:08)

• Letting your “freak flag fly” becomes a filter; only those who resonate with your unique style will approach you, leading to more fulfilling projects.

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6. Structure, Planning & Creative Routine

• Tara is an avid planner, balancing detailed daily, weekly, and monthly logs:

  • “I am a planner. I have a daily planner. Then I have a weekly planner, then I have a monthly planner…then what I do is I put, like, am PM self-portrait and notes.” (19:49, 20:14)
  • Her method is to set broad menus of tasks rather than strict hourly schedules, allowing for flexibility and mental health.

• Consistency in creative practice—like posting a weekly Substack for over a year—helped Tara grow skills, connect with others, and refine her voice:

  • “Making a Substack post that had some sort of a story…was a lot of work, but then helped me kind of also understand what I like.” (08:57)

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7. Inspiration, Jealousy, and Self-Discovery

• Jealousy or envy is reframed as a flashing signpost to your own desires:

  • “Jealousy or envy is just a big flashing neon sign. What is it about this that you want to do?” (24:03)

• Absorbing inspiration from other artists, books, and even everyday life—including fashion, humor, and physical quirks—feeds Tara’s evolving creative self.

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8. Permission to Explore and Evolve

• The hosts and Tara reinforce the value of play, open-ended exploration, and resisting early fixation on commercial viability:

  • “There’s also a lot to be said for when you’re in that space of finding your creative voice, not even thinking about money and clients.” (18:12)
  • “Traditional art school…you do your foundation year…there’s no mention of business or money or…commercialism…it’s just pure: What do you enjoy?” (18:48)

• The unpredictable nature of freelance success is part of what makes illustration exciting and always worth trying.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On redefining success:
  “If you’re not good at it and if you’re not aware of what you’re doing or if you’re not unique enough, I think you can be unsuccessful at anything. I don’t think I was successful in architecture…somehow it didn’t matter because the title architect sounds so good.” – Tara (29:12)

• On being yourself and finding your audience:
  “If you make the work that is based on your own freak flag, then you get commissioned to do the same thing. And also you get the client that is the dream client.” – Tara (14:35)

• On creative jealousy:
  “Jealousy or envy is just a big flashing neon sign. What is it about this that you want to do?” – B (24:03)

• On community and not being alone:
  “I don’t think I can ever get enough of reminders that I’m not alone. Always need to be reassured.” – Tara (10:55)

• On enjoying the creative path:
  “Being alive is hard enough. Might as well do some fun stuff before you die or whatever happens next.” – B (07:04)

• On living for yourself:
  “You only have to be responsible to two people. One is your 8-year-old self and one your 80-year-old self.” – Tara (26:29)

• On routine and flexibility:
  “If I write down what I have to do at a certain hour, I will just not do it. So I make some sort of a menu to choose from…If I do three of those things, or even two if they’re big ones, I should be happy with my day.” – Tara (20:39)

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Timestamps for Notable Segments

• Tara’s Background and Shift from Architecture (03:00 – 06:22)
• The Power of Childhood Interests and Humour in Tara’s Work (07:33 – 08:57)
• Building Community as an Illustrator (09:38 – 10:55)
• Creative Block and Emotional Navigation (13:14 – 14:35)
• Dream Clients and Flying Your Freak Flag (14:35 – 16:08)
• Creative Planning and Routine (19:49 – 21:29)
• On Jealousy as Creative Inspiration (24:03 – 25:40)
• Advice on Living Authentically (26:29 – 29:19)
• Redefining Career Success (29:12 – 29:47)

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Tone & Style

The tone is open, warm, humorous, and reassuring, reflecting the hosts’ “agony aunt” vibe. Tara is candid and witty, offering an honest look at her challenges and joys. The conversation is full of mutual encouragement and practical wisdom, ideal for anyone navigating a creative career transition or simply seeking company on their artistic journey.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a heartfelt exploration of what it means to find, trust, and showcase your authentic creative voice—especially when it means stepping away from the “safe” path. Tara’s story, balancing candid self-reflection with practical tips and genuine humor, will resonate deeply with anyone who’s ever wondered if it’s possible—or permissible—to make a living from the things that light them up. The core message: be yourself, build your community, and don’t be afraid to fly your freak flag.

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Transcript

[A]

Sa.

[B]

Buckle in because you're in for a treat. I spoke with Tara, who is a good shipper, but actually, first, before I introduce Tara, I wanted to let you know that on Tuesday 10th February at 1.30pm UK time, we've got a brand new workshop, free for everybody and it's called Standing out in A Sea Of Robots. Being an Illustrator When AI is everywhere. It'd be lovely to see you there. We've changed the way we run workshops now so there's. It's not got limited seats so as many people as you like can show up. Thank you for your feedback about that, Tara. Tara is a Persian illustrator, humorist, architect and violinist who's currently based in Belgium. She grew up reading stories, playing music and keeping a stack of diaries and offending people by drawing them all fat. Tara spent most of her adult life studying and working in architecture. She now holds a Master's degree from Amsterdam School of Art, which she happily keeps in the depths of her wardrobe. In 2023, Tara jumped aboard the good ship Illustration a rediscovered her love for drawing and gradually started her career as an illustrator. Two years later, she signed with her agent Lucy at Luddington Creative, working on picture books, doing commissions, live event illustration and making personal work. I will put all of the links in the show notes, but you can find Tara on Instagram. She's Tara Takentahl on Substack. She's called Tara's Timeout and you can have a look at her work on her website as well. Hey. Hello, Tara. I'm so excited to have you here. So, yes, I've roped Tara in today because I wanted to talk to somebody about flying their freak flag. And as soon as Tara's name popped up, I was like, yes, because I am a super fan of your work. If you're listening to this, you have to go immediately. While listening, of course, go and look at Tara's work while we're chatting. But, Tara, would you like to introduce yourself?

[A]

Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so over the moon that, yeah, we are having this conversation. We've known each other for a while, but I never had the star conversation with you. My name is Tara. My last name is Tayebi Fard, which is very difficult to pronounce and very difficult to remember. But we're gonna move on from this and move to the next bit, which is me being an illustrator and humorist. I have a background in architecture and music and currently I'm based in Belgium.

[B]

Brilliant. Yatar. It would be so good to hear a little bit about your journey in finding your creative voice, because you mentioned you've got history and architecture, and of course that's creative in itself. But how was it that sort of shift to illustration and what did that look like? And basically what happened?

[A]

Yeah, so I was always drawing as a kid, but also growing up, I always kept a diary and I wrote in it and also drew bits and bobs here and there, but I never thought it was a thing like many other illustrators, which I later came to know. And I was also, unfortunately, good at maths. So then people were like, well, you're good at maths, you don't have to go through an artistic career, so let's do something that's creative but not too creative. And that led me to architecture. And I was dedicated to keep going until I was really old and retired. But I couldn't find a job at some point because of all the crisis. And then I had a couple of months of not having to torture myself because I didn't have a job at the time. Like, me and my boyfriend had a bit of extra time to travel and go to museums and concerts and go on trips, and I kept drawing while we were out and about, and I thought, well, maybe this could be my thing. And I looked things up and I came across your YouTube channel, and that led me to the Good Ship. And only a few days later, you were opening your doors to the picture book course. And I thought, this is amazing. I'm just gonna do it. And then my life basically changed since then. I was already working freelance as an architect, but doing a little bit more illustration work for architects, and this sort of made that shift a bit bigger. Also, for my graduation project for my master's, I did basically an illustration project and got away with it, which is great. But, yeah, so I got a lot of input for how to be an illustrator in terms of the skills and knowledge and references from the Good Ship. And also because I was working so much in my sketchbook, and there was specifically with the Quirk excavator as well, I got to dig back my old diaries and look at what I liked growing up, what I like now, and all the books that I've been hoarding from my favorite illustrators and authors and finding what really draws me in and then reproducing that. I think it made such a big difference. And on top of that, the community. When I started my Instagram account, I started from zero, but I didn't start with my mom's friends. Following me just out of kindness, but actual fellow illustrators. And I followed some of the illustrators that I never thought would speak to me because I'm a nobody. But everybody is so kind. I'm always surprised by that. I think that's such a privilege to have those connections and the good ship really help with that.

[B]

Okay. That's so good to hear. And it's so funny to hear your way in. I suppose that's something we forget to ask people, like, how did you find your way here? But yeah, the YouTube video. That's interesting. And also I bet your experience with your parents and people around you being like, oh, you're good at maths. I'm sure a lot of people have had that. I know I had that with people saying, oh, you're good at academic things, English. So why are you doing art? Are you crazy? I think the people around us just want us to be safe, don't they? And there's such a widespread cultural view. If you're an artist, you won't make any money, so don't do that.

[A]

I think I was really lucky that I didn't get that much of a safety and security with architecture. Otherwise I could have stuck to it for a long time.

[B]

That's true. Like, it's over the silver lining of not having an architecture job.

[A]

Yeah. Because at some point I realized I don't have a job now, but I'm really struggling and I'm really trying hard to get this job that doesn't pay well, that I don't like, that doesn't stick to a nine to five working hours. What am I really trying so hard to get if I'm not going to earn? Well, at least I would rather have fun. I think that's definitely based on something you said. He also said something about, you're just a bag of meat. Take it easy. Yeah, those are some things that really helped me change my mindset entirely and genuinely live a better quality of life. Just you don't have to make it harder for yourself than it already is.

[B]

Yeah, being alive is hard enough. Might as well do some fun stuff before you die or whatever happens next.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

I love that. And what have been some highlights you mentioned, like digging into what you were interested in as a child. That's something we talk a lot about in the find your creative voice course. I think what gets me really excited about that is it gets you away from the temptation to just look at other illustrators and get sucked down. Pinterest holes. What were some of the things from your childhood that really light you up and get you excited now.

[A]

Yeah. So the thing is, when you look at my drawings, it's always happy and funny. And the thing is, I've always been really annoyed all the time, all my life. And as a kid, I was really annoyed by some things that people did or why are they wearing this or why did they say that? And I just took note of that and I wrote about them and I drew them and so I remember them very well. And I think it's all have fed into character design in a way. And yeah, it also means that I have a very specific image of every person around me. And sometimes when I'm having a conversation with my parents or with my partner and they see me smile and write something down, they know they have said something that was maybe it's gonna get taken out of its context and abused.

[B]

Yes. Just harvesting people for character information.

[A]

So I really enjoy that bit and I think I always enjoyed it, but I didn't have a proper vessel. I tend to remember really random things that don't really matter, but somehow I remember them. And I think drawing is a perfect use of that. I think a really big highlight for me was my substack. I did it weekly throughout 2024, I think.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah, I kept it going for way too long. I think it got to 60 weeks or something. And I improved so much from doing that because I never did like a daily Instagram post or anything. But that making a substack post that had some sort of a story, maybe a few images, but like a sequence was a lot of work, but then helped me kind of also understand what I like because I didn't have a rule for what I can post, but whatever that came to mind. But it had to be something.

[B]

I always think, like the continuous posting or something, that consistency, that is the theme. Right? Because making something every single week is such a big commitment. 60 weeks is no mean feat. So hats off to you.

[A]

Yeah. Thank you. I quit. I didn't quit, but I just didn't manage to keep it up. But yeah, I managed to also meet a lot of people through that and made a lot of friends. And it's funny because illustration is such a lonely job and I'm basically working from home all the time. I don't go to the office anymore, but somehow I have more friends than I used to have back in the day when everybody met in person. So that's great. I actually have good ship friends who I meet with in person. When I was in Amsterdam I met Lisa Ruffredo, who also lives in Amsterdam.

[B]

She won one of the Bologna Yes. Prizes. Yeah.

[A]

And she has been winning so many awards. Then I also met Janet lefly, who was an American author living in Amsterdam at the time. And then I moved down to Belgium, and I still managed to find a good trooper who lives in the same city, Julia Gorkina. And we meet almost. Yeah. Every month, at least.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's amazing. It's just so beautiful how big the community is.

[B]

Yeah. I always forget that as well. And it's like people all over the world meeting up, doing little drawing sessions together and just meeting up for cups of tea. So I'm so happy that it's, like, had that ripple effect and other people get to do that because it's the best thing ever. Just talking to other illustrators.

[A]

Yeah. And just knowing that I don't think I can ever get enough of reminders that I'm not alone. Always need to be reassured.

[B]

Yeah. And it's so true. And I think we're all figuring it out as well. That's the biggest thing that's come out of speaking to different illustrators and experts and things. Everyone's just figuring it out in their own way and thinks they're figuring out the wrong way. And then it just so happens. Sometimes it overlaps or some people discover things that work or don't work.

[A]

Yeah. And it's often not during perfect times, but everything feeling doomed and gloomy and sad. It is. This kind of thing always gives me hope and makes me get out of bed and do something. I was really into looking at my favorite illustrators, biographies and paths. And some of my favorite ones were working throughout the Second World War and they were writing picture books. And at the time seemed so silly, but it made so much difference. The Moomins were made very close to the World War, and it didn't make a big hit at first, but then it did later. I think we can not see the value at the time. But then later it really shows that just.

[B]

Yeah. That's so important for people to hear, I think, because it's so easy, especially with social media, to see, like, the barrage of bad news. And the world is going. The world's a mess, basically. And it's so easy to be like, what's the point? Like, why should I be doing anything? It feels so frivolous and silly. But that's just. It's so important to keep creating good stuff.

[A]

And I also really struggle to keep going. But, yeah. You only have so many days to live. And it doesn't help if you're feeling paralyzed all the time.

[B]

Yeah. And that's true. Like, the world's not going to be made better by you not creating your creative stuff.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's a good message for people. I always find myself hiding from the news a little bit because there's only so much I can take. But I was talking to Helen about this the other day and basically we agreed that creative people usually in general, feel feelings so deeply. And that's part of why we're creative and why we're good at what we do, because we see things being funny or touching or whatever. And I think that's what can make it really tricky to deal with real world events and what's going on.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. If I'm feeling absolutely horrible about things, I cannot draw, but if I'm feeling a little bit sad or a little bit horrible, then I can make something meaningful. It's difficult. It's really difficult. Sometimes you have to work on things somebody commissioned you to do or you were paid to do. I don't know how anybody does that. And then also that gets prioritized. So then you never get to write on your substack anymore or draw for yourself.

[B]

That's a tricky thing and something I think most illustrators go through. But for me, being commissioned to do something, firstly, it's really exciting because you're like, yeah, you're commissioned, but then you're like, oh, now I have to do it and I can't do all the other things to do. I have to pause my life and do this thing. And then once it's done, if you want to get more of the things, you've got to talk about the thing and share it. It's just like such a hard hamster wheel to get off. And I think the fly in your freak flag stuff is a really good way to almost step out of that weird, fast flowing river of make work, market your work, get more work. Because we got some. When we first started the course, there were people in there and we were like, these people are really established. Like, why are they here? What are they doing? But it was because they were in that thing of, if you get commissioned work, then you kind of get squashed into just making that work and then promoting it and doing the work that the clients want and not necessarily doing the stuff that you want to do.

[A]

But then if you make the work that is based on your own freak flag, then you get commissioned to do the same thing. And also you get the Client. That is the dream client. And, yeah, I was actually talking about this with my partner last night, and he was saying. I was telling him, oh, this client that I'm working with is like, I couldn't ask for a better one. And they're so supportive, and they, like, ask me, oh, maybe, like, during this thing, if you can't make it, then please send me your business cards and postcards and I will just. I like. And also very flexible. And they're so cool. They didn't want anything traditional. They really allowed me to be myself, and that's why they hired me. And that's what they also communicated. And I was like, this is so amazing. And it wouldn't have happened if I didn't dare to be myself in the first place. And my boyfriend was saying, if you think about it, and if, like, for this work, nobody who is actually traditional or who wants that standard, horrible design, then nobody would come. None of those people would come to you. So you're already filtering out the people that you don't want.

[B]

Are you allowed to share any more details about the commission?

[A]

Yeah, it's actually a wedding stationery commission. And, yeah, so I'm basically designing the character of the bride and groom, but no veils, no holding hands, no rings, none of those things. No flowers in the design. But it's all very fun and funny and I'm allowed to draw them fat. It's amazing.

[B]

Amazing. The dream. I think you said that in your intro, didn't you? Like. You like drawing people fat and offending them?

[A]

Yeah, if they're the right people, they would appreciate it.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Also really old. I tend to really like drawing wrinkles and such and big noses, which don't really flatter people.

[B]

They're so full of character, though. I love them.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

When you were talking about that, the side effect. Have you heard of Icky Guy? That thing of the Venn diagram where it's your. The things. I've got a different version of it. I'm looking over here because it's on my wall, and it's like, you're the thing the world needs, the thing that you're good at and the thing that makes money, and there's a bit in the middle, but then this other man whose name I forgot and added more, and it was like, things you love and are passionate about and your vocation, and that makes, like, the ultimate thing. And maybe that's what you're finding by flying your feet. Flag.

[A]

I first tried to draw that diagram in my notebook. I couldn't finish it, then I thought I would print it, and then I still couldn't fill it in.

[B]

Is it the one where it's like extra bits added and there's loads of circles?

[A]

Yeah, I think there was one. A printable version in the Good chips, maybe Business course.

[B]

Yes. That sounds familiar.

[A]

And yeah, I really struggle to just decide what goes where and what do people want to pay me for? Nothing. Why would they pay me? And I think I tried it maybe last time almost a year ago, I don't know. But I just went off thinking about it in the back of my head and just doing what I was doing. So I think maybe that's something to continuously go back to and update. I also started using the documents with, like, tracking numbers. It's also a freebie on the Good Ships website.

[B]

Oh, yeah, the spreadsheet.

[A]

Yes. I wanted to start using it in October, then I thought I could do it in January. And then I actually entered the information for January.

[B]

Yeah, I was gonna say that was a good time.

[A]

So I think it's gonna be good to. Yeah. Do the thing and then also analyze it a little bit or have a look at the numbers.

[B]

Yeah. There's also a lot to be said for when you're in that space of finding your creative voice, not even thinking about money and clients. Right. Because when you're figuring out what you want to do, I think if you think about the money and what will get what you'll get paid for, think about that too early. It like squashes anything fun and exciting. When we first started doing the Freak Fly course, people would immediately be like, how do I get work? How do I get work? We'd be like, shut up. We're not talking about that yet. That's not about this course. And then we made the business course later because it really is. It's almost traditional art school. You go in and you do your foundation year where they. You learn a bit of everything and you do everything. But there's no mention of business or money or commercialism or anything like that. It's just pure. What do you enjoy? What are you drawn to and what feels easy and fun and would you get the most satisfaction out of. And I think having that mindset around finding your creative voice is really helpful.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And also, you don't really know what will work. Like, it's all so unexpected. And one day you will get paid to do something that feels very easy and not very important. Maybe. But then you get. Earn a lot of money with it, and then you realize, oh, maybe that could be a stream of income. Yeah, it can be so unexpected, and that's so exciting about it. It's not like a job that you continuously repeat and get the same money.

[B]

Like, I feel like there's no point even predicting what's going to happen now because it's every year, it's, here's a brand new thing, figure this out. Might as well fly our freak flags. In the meantime, what are your plans for 2026? Are you. Are you a planner, or are you more of a go with the flow?

[A]

I am a planner. I have a daily planner. Then I have a weekly planner, Then I have a monthly planner. Oh, my God.

[B]

Love language.

[A]

Yes. So I have this sort of daily thing that it just comes. It's just a notebook, and then it has these frames of four. And then what I do is I put, like, am PM self portrait and notes.

[B]

Amazing.

[A]

So this one is for today. Please don't make a fool of yourself on the podcast.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Yeah. So every day, like, I actually, I make the planning at night because that's when my brain is very active. And then the next morning when I wake up, I have a sort of a schedule to have in mind. I always put in breakfast and lunch and dinner, just not to forget meals.

[B]

Then you can go to, like.

[A]

And then I've. I noticed that if I write down what I have to do at a certain hour, I will just not do it. So I make some sort of a menu to choose from, and I've decided that if I do three of those things, or even two if they're big ones, I should be happy with my day. And sometimes I. Yeah, often I join accountability calls. Like some with the Good Ship, sometimes with Ella Beach's upstack.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Where Ruby Wright and Tor Freeman and a bunch of really lovely illustrators join as well. I always have to pinch myself when I see them on the call. And with them, we have to say what we're gonna do. And every time, if I say exactly what I'm gonna do, I'm not gonna do it. So I've just learned to say, I'm just gonna draw something and then it's.

[B]

Gonna work to me with time blocking as well. Have you found that if you do time blocking, it sounds so sexy and exciting, but then you do it and you're like, rebelling against yourself from an hour ago and you're like, I don't want to do that now I'm free. You can't make me do those things.

[A]

Yeah, I haven't really. I also have this sort of a bit more serious thing for the year where you have, like, things. Yeah. And then so it's weekly, but then the day is like this, like, from the morning to the evening. But, yeah, I only do that for actual calls and meetings and sessions rather than tasks to do. I think it's a very personal thing. I started with just writing some sort of lists floating around the room. And then I decided maybe if I do this, it works better. And just you keep editing yourself.

[B]

Do you set big goals for yourself.

[A]

Or do you see what happens for, like, everyday stuff?

[B]

Yeah, so essentially everyday goals, but maybe, like, longer term.

[A]

Yeah, it's more like weekly goals. So like, by the end of the week, I have to do this. This person, this for that person. And some days may be more productive than others.

[B]

The weekly is more manageable, isn't it? Less overwhelming.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I have really good days and really bad days, and it can really freak me out if I have a list of things that are not done. But, yeah, tell us. I, embarrassingly, I discovered it rather recently, Arnold Lobel's Frog and Toad.

[B]

So even more embarrassingly, I've never heard of it.

[A]

Yeah, it's an absolute classic. He's an American illustrator, and it's basically a collection of short stories that are illustrated. And it's about these two characters. A frog who is more happy and positive, and the toad who is a bit more whiny. And this sort of combination of them is human, and it's so funny. And so that one day, I think it's the toad. He decides that he has to make a list of what he has to do. Then he crosses them off, have breakfast. Okay, cross off and do this. And then at some point, he loses his list. And, oh, no, I can't run to get my list because that's not on my list. That's not something on my list. And, yeah, it's just very funny. And I relate to it so much. Not only do I enjoy that, but also me being jealous of the illustrator who made that book says something about what I like and what I should be making.

[B]

Yes, 100%. I was thinking that jealousy or envy is just a big flashing neon sign. What is it about this that you want to do?

[A]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

Down the rabbit hole with it.

[A]

But, yeah, I've been collecting so many books since I first joined the Good Chip. It's almost years ago now. But even though I have such a big collection, they all have a lot of things in common. With each other, you lose track of things and have too many things, whereas you can only spend so much money on buying books.

[B]

Much space as well.

[A]

Yeah, I don't even have shelves. I just have piles.

[B]

Amazing.

[A]

But yeah, especially the jealousy thing is a really good sign. And sometimes it's really good to allow yourself to be just a fan. Like, I'm a huge fan of Ella Beach's beautiful backgrounds and colors and everything. I can never make that myself, but maybe I can have, I don't know, elements of humor and elements of character design. Or maybe parts of my lines could be colored and that color could have the appeal somehow that I'm looking for. Or maybe my wardrobe, actually, my wardrobe is a lot more colorful than it used to be before the good ship. And that, that kind of thing comes back in your life. And everything is so personal when you look at it like that. And it all shapes who you are.

[B]

I think when you're creative, it comes out whether you like it or not, whether that's through your clothes or your cooking or where you're going and what you're doing. Love it.

[A]

Thank you. Yeah. It's both a lovely thing and a bit difficult, right? Yeah. But I think that's an interesting life to live. For sure. It is very difficult. But then by the time I'm 80, I'm not gonna regret pursuing this. But if I was gonna get old doing architecture, which I hated, I would have really gotten bitter by then. I think I got bitter already, but it's still manageable. But yeah, you don't want to get to a point where you resent yourself and you feel like you haven't lived your life and you haven't been true to yourself and you have sold your soul doing something you hate. I think I read this quote a while ago about the fact that you only have to be responsible to two people. One is your 80 year old self and one your 80 year old self.

[B]

That's so spooky because I was about to say, my friend says make 5 year old you proud and. Or excited and 95 year old proud. This is one of them. But yeah, the same idea. And that's so true. Like it's. If you're bridging the two, like the baby version of you and the old lady version of you. If you can make both of those people happy, it's probably not by people pleasing, doing what you think society thinks you should do, because nobody's really that bothered anyway. I think that's the thing, like most people are so worried about their own.

[A]

Stuff and nobody knows what they're doing. They're just pretending. If they are like, if it seems like they know what they're doing, either they don't know that they don't know or they're pretending that they know and it doesn't really matter. I think even now, actually my parents, I think they're proud of me now, but they were really dubious of this whole illustration thing. Can you make a living out of this? And I see this question coming up again and again also on like the Facebook group and conversations. People don't know. They genuinely don't know. And they just want to support you and be there for you. But we are just quite. I don't know, we just don't know any better in a way.

[B]

And like parents and people around you, when they seem worried, it's because they want you to be safe and it's because they love you and because they're convinced that illustration isn't maybe the best earning career to go into. And we're always very keep you a part time job. Don't be rash, don't make any crazy decisions about it. But there are so many illustrators making it work. And I think if you're crazy enough to want to be an illustrator, then why not try? Like, somebody once sent me a message saying that it was irresponsible. That was like encouraging people into something.

[A]

I remember that comment, I think, yeah.

[B]

And I was just a bit like. But then I went on her profile and she was teaching people how to draw and I was like, is that the same thing? Like you're helping people draw? Like, how dare you? You know that? Look, are people allowed to just try their own thing and have fun? I believe that everybody is responsible for their own thing. They know what they're doing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's. Illustration is a brilliant career. And even if it's not a career, if it's just you just draw because you love drawing, then that's good. All good as well.

[A]

Yeah. And I think, yeah, illustration, but also any job, if you are not really, if you're not good at it and if you're not aware of what you're doing or if you're not unique enough, I think you can be unsuccessful at anything. I don't think I was successful in architecture, but nobody was. Nobody minded it. I wasn't earning much or I wasn't happy, but somehow it didn't matter because the title architect sounds so good.

[B]

People go, wow, I want like a motivational poster that says you cannot succeed at anything or you can be unsuccessful at anything.

[A]

It's true. I feel like there's so much stigma going into that title, or any title that's big enough and you can really fool yourself with that. It doesn't guarantee anything. I don't know. I'm just very adamant about this because I feel like it's wasted a decade of my life and I don't want to allow for more of that. And I feel like if I can save one other person who is doing this to themselves, that would be great. I would be really happy with myself.

[B]

I'm sure at least one person, probably way more than one person, will be feeling super inspired to have heard your journey and your story. So thank you so much for sharing so generously and I will put all of the information in the show notes below where people can find you.

[A]

I'll put your substack yes, I switched to monthly publication and then I skipped January.

[B]

I'll put your subsect link in your Instagram and your website and things. You can tell me all the links that we're going to shove in there. Thank you so much. Been an absolute treat and I'll speak to you soon. It.