The joy of not finishing (all) your online courses

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Good Ship Illustration
Episode: The Joy of Not Finishing (All) Your Online Courses
Release Date: June 6, 2025

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In this insightful episode of The Good Ship Illustration, hosts Helen Stephens, Katie Chappell, and Tania Willis dive deep into a common experience among creatives: subscribing to online art courses and not completing them. Drawing inspiration from a Substack article titled "Why Creative Women Don't Finish or Even Start the Art Courses They Bought Online," the trio explores the underlying reasons, benefits, and community aspects associated with this behavior.

1. Introduction to the Topic

Helen sets the stage by referencing the Substack article and highlighting the universal experience of beginning but not finishing online courses:

"I just read a really good Substack and it's called why Creative Women Don't Finish or Even Start the Art Courses They Bought online. I thought this would be brilliant because we've all bought courses and not finished them, haven't we?"
([00:27])

2. Commonality of Unfinished Courses

Both Tania and Leonie resonate with Helen's observation, sharing their personal struggles with incomplete courses:

"I've got cupboards full of them."
([00:39] Tanya)

"I'm still buying courses and not finishing them. And, you know, I'm not even sorry about it."
([00:40] Leonie)

3. Reasons for Not Completing Courses

The discussion delves into why creatives often fail to finish courses:

• Initial Excitement vs. Life Distractions:
  Leonie explains that initial enthusiasm often wanes due to life's unpredictable nature.

  "I'm really excited about something... and then I'll do a bit of the course and then life happens or I get distracted."
  ([00:55] Leonie)

• Affirmation of Commitment:
  Tania suggests that even starting a course serves as a reinforcement of one's dedication.

  "It affirms your commitment to an idea... it's a really expensive way sometimes of affirming your commitment."
  ([01:25] Tania)

4. Benefits of Partial Completion

Despite not finishing, participants derive value from engaging with parts of the course:

• Selective Learning:
  Helen shares her approach of skimming through courses to extract actionable insights.

  "I watched it quite quickly, just taking off the stuff that was quick and easy for me to understand... I put it into action. Seems to be working good."
  ([01:47] Helen)

• Action Over Completion:
  Leonie emphasizes that implementing learned concepts can be more beneficial than merely completing the course.

  "That's all you need."
  ([02:12] Leonie)

5. Community and Lifetime Access

A significant advantage of their courses is the sense of community and the provision of lifetime access:

• Building Connections:
  Helen highlights the friendships formed through their courses.

  "It's a nice recommendation for us that someone says, I will keep coming back to you."
  ([03:23] Tanya)

• Lifetime Access Benefits:
  Leonie explains their commitment to providing lifetime access, contrasting it with other courses that have restricted access.

  "Because we'd all done courses and had that experience where you... you have to pay another 600 pounds to see the thing."
  ([04:13] Leonie)

6. Mentoring and Showcasing Work

The hosts discuss their mentoring programs and the selection process for participants:

• Selecting Mentors:
  Helen describes the difficulty in choosing participants, ultimately selecting four to maximize impact.

  "We didn't pick because perhaps they just weren't at the right stage... we chose four very different questions with four very different types of work."
  ([05:18] Helen)

• Showcasing Success:
  They plan to highlight both winners and runner-ups, fostering a supportive community atmosphere.

  "If you're in the find your creative voice, fly your freak flag course, you'll get to see the actual one to one session."
  ([07:37] Leonie)

7. Gender Dynamics in Illustration Courses

The episode explores why illustration courses attract predominantly women and the implications thereof:

• Confidence Boost and Career Gaps:
  Helen speculates that women might seek courses to regain confidence after career interruptions, such as motherhood.

  "Maybe women take time out of their career more often than men do... it's a perfect moment to reconsider."
  ([08:30] Tania)

• Male Participation:
  Initially, few men joined their courses, but there's a gradual increase.

  "Hardly had any men sign up for the course in the beginning."
  ([09:51] Helen)

8. Challenges in Editorial Illustration

The hosts discuss the shifting landscape of editorial illustration:

• Declining Opportunities and Visibility:
  Tanya points out that editorial fees have decreased, making it less viable as a sole income source.

  "The fees in editorial are a lot lower now. It's not a living wage kind of activity."
  ([12:24] Tanya)

• Rise of AI in Illustration:
  Leonie shares an unsettling experience with AI-generated illustrations replacing traditional artwork.

  "People's Friend... the illustrations were all AI. I felt a bit sick for like a week after that."
  ([12:48] Leonie)

9. Looking Ahead

Concluding the episode, the hosts tease the next episode's focus on how illustrators can find clients, inspired by listener questions.

"This would lead us to our next podcast with the question sent in from Emily, who said, where do you... How do you find clients?"
([14:30] Tanya)

Notable Quotes

• Leonie: "Sometimes it's like, you know, they're a cheerleader..."
  ([02:20])

• Helen: "It's a good place to meet other people who want to do what you're doing as well."
  ([05:07])

• Tania: "It's a really expensive way sometimes of affirming your commitment to an idea."
  ([01:25])

Conclusion

This episode of The Good Ship Illustration offers a candid exploration of the challenges and benefits associated with online art courses. By acknowledging the common struggle of not finishing courses, the hosts emphasize the importance of community, selective learning, and continuous engagement over mere completion. Additionally, they shed light on the gender dynamics within the illustration industry and the evolving challenges posed by digital advancements like AI. For illustrators navigating their creative careers, the insights shared provide both relatability and actionable advice.

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Transcript

[Tanya]

Sa.

[Helen]

I just read a really good substack and it's called why Creative Women Don't Finish or Even Start the Art Courses They Bought online. I thought this would be brilliant because we've all bought courses and not finished them, haven't we?

[Tanya]

I've got cupboards full of them.

[Leonie]

I'm still buying courses and not finishing them. And, you know, I'm not even sorry about it.

[Helen]

I was gonna say that. Do you worry if you don't finish it?

[Leonie]

There's part of me that's always like, I should make a list of all these courses I've joined so that I remember I've joined them and go back to look at them.

[Tanya]

Sad.

[Leonie]

I don't think I feel bad because I always. I sign up because I'm really excited about something. It might be just one element of it or it's the energy of it. I'm like, oh, yes, that's really cool. And then I'll do a bit of the course and then life happens or I get distracted or. But I always feel like I've got something out of it, even if I've only done a tiny bit.

[Helen]

Yeah, me too. I've signed up for courses and not finished them, but I've done enough of them that I felt. Ah, yes. This kind of. I was gonna say, quenched the edge. That's not right, is it?

[Tanya]

You're missing your mix.

[Leonie]

You're right. They're just quenched itches, the itch.

[Tanya]

But sometime it, like, it affirms your commitment to an idea and something you want to learn or do a bit like sharpening your pencil or buying new kit. It's a really expensive way sometimes of affirming your commitment to an idea, but if you just start and you do some of it and it gets you on the road, that's fine.

[Helen]

I did that really brilliant Stewart SEO1 and it was a brilliant course. But I kind of surfaced, like, watched it quite quickly, just taking off the stuff that was quick and easy for me to. To understand and did that and then never look back at the course. But it felt worthwhile. I felt like I'd skimmed off what I was capable of doing there. And then I put it into action. Seems to be working good.

[Leonie]

That's all you need.

[Helen]

Yeah, that's fine. I didn't want to dig any deeper than that. I didn't want to hurt my brain too much. I got what I wanted.

[Tanya]

Sometimes it's like, you know, they're a cheerleader and Manascha is, I think, for three of Us. She's a cheerleader in that sense. I signed up for it, said a year of content in one day.

[Leonie]

Did you do it?

[Tanya]

Well, I think I did what Helen said. I creamed the bits off the top. But it was great because I worked out a strategy. It kickstarted me into doing something instead of being overwhelmed. And she was like, yeah, it was good. I didn't do it all, but it's all there and I will go back to it. Famous last words. Do you go back to half finished courses ever?

[Leonie]

I do. I think it's like favorite books that have favorite courses or so like Leorie Dawson. I love the way she teaches. And anytime I'm feeling really stuck or in Leonie's words, got my head up my butt about something, I'll just go and watch like anything, anything from her and then I'm just. It like releases, whatever. I was like, oh, perfectly, like, that just is gone and I can get on with what I was doing.

[Tanya]

Oh, I think I need. Yeah, I might need a Leone bit of advice.

[Leonie]

But I've never completed. I don't think I've ever completed a course ever.

[Tanya]

Yeah, we have lots of people on our course saying, I'm back for the third time and I never got to the end, but I've got further each time. And that's kind of the perfect course, really. And it's a nice recommendation for us that someone says, I will keep coming back to you. Because that's just what you're saying about Leone. If there's a kind of touchstone for your life, someone who connect you back into your intentions just by being in their orbit. If we're that to someone also, you might.

[Helen]

It's a good place to meet other people who want to do what you're doing as well. The community around that course might be brilliant and make friends. You mean you became friends with Leon Money from doing her course, didn't we?

[Leonie]

We're gonna hang out next week. In real life. I'm going to Australia. I'm so excited. So, yeah, that's another. Yeah, the community thing. And also I think being in courses like that where you do go back, you realize how nice it is to have lifetime access.

[Tanya]

Yes.

[Leonie]

And before we started this podcast, Helen was like, I don't want it to be a sales pitch and it's not. But the reason we do the lifetime access thing is because of that. Because we'd all done courses and had that experience where you think, oh, oh, I'm ready, I've got some time. I'm going to learn that thing now. And you go to log in, it's like access expired. You have to pay another 600 pounds to see the thing. And yeah, that just gave me the ick a lot. Never wanted to do that to people.

[Tanya]

No. It seems so unfair. And you know those communities have sort of built friendships even though we're not 100% comfortable about staying on Facebook. That group is working really well for people who do, who are prepared to go on Facebook and we need to find somewhere else or another place to build community for the future.

[Helen]

There's a good, good ship good, good ship community, isn't there? Lots of friendship groups and people going out, sketching together and meetups and we've made so many friends from all of our students on the good ship as well, haven't we?

[Tanya]

Know when you're looking at like we've just done the one to one mentoring.

[Helen]

Course, we've just been looking at the entries and Tanya had selected a short list of people that she was excited about. We've just been looking at those and.

[Tanya]

All the names were like oh, we know them from Art Club. From the early days there were students who'd been with Freak Flag as almost founder members and some of them are on Facebook groups and you see them submitting and trying and trying different things and asking the community what do you think of this and how is this working? And seeing people commit so hard to their work and be open for feedback is so lovely because that community is helping them as well as a one to one mentoring and it was really hard to choose who to help.

[Leonie]

We were supposed to choose three but we got four in the end.

[Helen]

We've done that before with the one on one picture book mentoring. I couldn't choose three, it was just too hard. We chose four and then we've got a nice, nice shortlist as well that will give those people a shout out because you feel bad about the people you didn't pick because there's so many amazing people. We didn't pick because perhaps they just weren't at the right stage like too far on and we didn't know how to help them. They're just publishable now. Also wanted to choose people where their question because we asked people to submit their work and a question where their question would be applicable to lots of people in the course. So it was nice to pick three very different. Actually we picked four in the end. Four very different questions with four very different types of work. So basically I want, I do want people to know that we probably looked at your work and loved it. But choosing the winners was just not just the best work we saw, it was the people who we definitely knew we could help. And in helping them, we would help a lot of people in the course.

[Leonie]

Should we name the winners and we can, like, because we've got them written down, haven't we? If you've got the.

[Tanya]

I'm going to find the piece of paper. It was Rachel Baylis. Hooray. And Emma tripolloni. Katie Bell Bulmer and Jackie Morvai.

[Helen]

Yeah, Brilliant. It's a really good selection. Yeah.

[Leonie]

Well done, everyone. And there's runners upper as well. So if you get runner uppers runs those uppers, they're going to be. We're going to send an email.

[Helen]

Yeah.

[Tanya]

And we're going to put their work out on email. So if you want to see what the winners work look like or the runner uppers work look like, you can. Can you just sign up? We'll send it all out so everyone can see their work.

[Leonie]

And even better, if you're in the find your creative voice, fly your freak flag course, you'll get to see the actual one to one session. Because we do the one to one mentoring with all four of these people and then we share it in the course so that everyone can benefit from it.

[Tanya]

Yeah. It's like a group tutorial, isn't it? So going back to courses part of.

[Helen]

That article was about. It wasn't just why do people sign up for courses, but why do women sign up for courses and not finish them? Which is interesting, isn't it? I wonder if you get more women sign up for courses because they feel the need for that badge of. I don't know, that you're not capable unless you've done the course. Maybe not quite as confident to just go out there. What do you think?

[Leonie]

Like a confidence boost.

[Helen]

Yeah, I would say. And maybe women take time out of their career more often than men do, so maybe to get back in, they like to.

[Leonie]

There's also the social aspect, like the community things really nice, especially for illustration and art. Like you're by yourself, like just painting and drawing, thinking, oh, hope this is okay. Whereas if you've got somewhere to bounce ideas off people, that's helpful.

[Tanya]

I would have loved to have had that community. When I lived in Hong Kong, it was really 20 years. I had a couple of friends who were illustrators, but it was quite a lonely environment and that was a long while after college. And all the time thinking, am I even pricing things right? You know, how just needing your work to have a bit of a kick up the bum by some interaction with other people, which is what we got when we all met together in Berwick. I was like, wow, community. This is exciting for the business side and for the creative side. But yeah, I think a lot of women who have, you know, who leave work to have children, that gap then makes them consider what it was they wanted to do. And it's harder to get back into what you were doing after having children. And it kind of. It's the perfect moment, isn't it, to reconsider. We have a lot of people who are. Art college probably went into a quick job to do something to bring in an income. Life took them off in that direction. They had children and then they're like, hey, didn't I do an illustration BA at some point? Maybe I should try and get back to that. A lot of women say that we.

[Helen]

Hardly had any men sign up for the course in the beginning. Do you remember? Barely any.

[Leonie]

I would get one big look. Look, a man. What's going on? How did she. We had that man who joined one.

[Helen]

Of the Zoom calls early on and said, ooh, lovely ladies or something, didn't he?

[Leonie]

He was removed.

[Tanya]

Yeah, yeah, but that.

[Helen]

Yeah, we've got a few men. Yeah, it's good, isn't it? We're getting more of a mix now.

[Tanya]

Yeah, it's nice. And it's nice to see how weirdly the work is slightly different. You can see different concerns coming through. Male illustrators and female illustrators.

[Leonie]

I'd love to know, like, how much of it is like just the way women are socialized growing up and how much is like an actual thing that you just are.

[Tanya]

What you mean in terms of doing the courses or how it impacts on.

[Leonie]

Your courses, your work, like, just what makes men and women different? I don't know.

[Tanya]

It's fascinating because, I mean, illustration courses, as I remember them, were at least 50% male, 50% female, possibly more male than female. But now I think the numbers seem to have changed a lot. It seems a more female dominated career. But I don't know whether that's because we're looking at it quite often through the prism of picture Book world.

[Helen]

Picture Books is definitely. There are a lot more women making picture books, but proportionally a lot more men getting the attention and winning the prizes. Oh, that's a whole podcast in its own.

[Leonie]

There was a brilliant post about that.

[Helen]

Oh, it was so good, wasn't it? I'll link. Who started that chat on Instagram it was on the orange beak Instagram but she'd shared it from somewhere else.

[Tanya]

Okay.

[Helen]

And I've forgotten the name of the person, but we'll, we'll put that underneath the podcast. But that was a brilliant chat, really good chat about the possible reasons why within picture books the very few men that they are get a lot of attention and win a lot of prizes. Yeah, really interesting chat.

[Tanya]

And also no one really knows what the fees are like and whether there is equality in fees.

[Helen]

I would love to know.

[Tanya]

I think you see a lot more men in editorial or you would do, but the fees of. The fees in editorial are a lot lower now. And I think a lot of illustrators used to see magazines as the place to, you know, break, start your career because you get the public, you know, you get the exposure from magazine credits. But now the fees are low. It's not a living wage kind of activity. You've got to mix it in with other stuff. So you see a lot of men in working in design areas, you know, illustration for design, illustration for packaging.

[Helen]

I think you do get your name out there as an illustrator by doing editorial now because printed.

[Tanya]

Yeah.

[Helen]

Media doesn't get. There are magazines don't have the distribution they used to have. I don't know whether even it's a work. I mean it's a bit of experience but you probably don't get the. What's the word?

[Tanya]

The exposure.

[Helen]

Exposure that you would have got in the 90s or 2000s.

[Tanya]

Do you, do you still read magazines?

[Helen]

No.

[Tanya]

Type.

[Helen]

No.

[Tanya]

Do you, Katie? Any print magazines?

[Helen]

Nope.

[Leonie]

But there was. I was at Cameron's granny's house and she had a People's Friend magazine and I was like, oh, this is really interesting. Not in interested interesting, like interesting in a bad way. Illustrations. I was like, I wonder who these are by. And there was no credit for any of the illustrations but turns out they were all AI And I was, I felt a bit sick for like a week after that because I was like people's friends used to be like watercolors and quaint old lady images and now it's just like an AI generated thing of a, you know, snow capped Swiss chate chalet, shale chalets.

[Tanya]

If that's, if they went straight to AI that quickly, imagine what they'd feel would have been prior to that. It's probably like 15 quid for an illustration.

[Leonie]

So we've already saved them like 20 quid. But I'm using AI.

[Helen]

Do you buy any magazines, Tanya?

[Tanya]

No, I don't think I do.

[Helen]

Oh no, we do, actually. We do have. Jerry buys a printmaking magazine. It's called Pressing Matters. He loves it. He loves that magazine. He reads it in bed. Yeah, monthly.

[Tanya]

So where do you see illustrators with credits, presumably? I mean, I see it in the Guardian and I'll check the credits.

[Helen]

When I buy a paperback, I'll often, if it's got an illustration, I'll look and see who it is.

[Leonie]

I like reading Creative Boom online, and they often feature illustrators. But that's more like about illustration, talking about the illustrator. It's not like an article.

[Tanya]

So you're right, really. The old world of editorial being a free calling card doesn't really happen anymore.

[Leonie]

I was reading an old illustration that was like the Fundamentals of Illustration book. And it was like, you must be in an annual.

[Tanya]

And as I could remember the last.

[Leonie]

Name, I don't know.

[Helen]

Do they still exist? I don't know. They exist anymore.

[Tanya]

This would lead us to our next podcast with the question sent in from Emily, who said, where do you. How do you find clients? And she said, using annuals and things like that. So let's talk about that on the next one because this is really interesting. Where have all the obvious places gone where illustrators names get seen?

[Helen]

That's good.

[Leonie]

We'll talk about that next week, shall we?

[Tanya]

Okay.

[Helen]

Yeah. All right.

[Leonie]

Bye. Bye.

[Helen]

Bye.

[Tanya]

Bye.

[Helen]

It.