You don't have to pick just one thing - an interview with illustrator-astrologer Nicola Allan

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Good Ship Illustration

Episode: You don't have to pick just one thing – an interview with illustrator-astrologer Nicola Allan
Date: May 8, 2026
Host: The Good Ship Illustration (Katie Chappell)
Guest: Nicola Allan, illustrator and astrologer

---

Episode Overview

This episode explores the multifaceted creative journey of Nicola Allan, who made the leap from corporate law to a career weaving together illustration and astrology. The conversation centers on:

• Navigating multiple creative pursuits
• The realities (and joys) of self-publishing and crowdfunding
• Combining personal passions into a unique brand
• How astrology intersects with creative work
• Encouragement for creative entrepreneurs to trust their intuition and carve their own paths

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Nicola’s Non-Linear Creative Journey

• Career Background: Nicola describes transitioning from working in corporate law to pursuing illustration part-time, then ultimately moving into creative work full-time, supplemented by astrological consulting.

  • “I was working part-time in corporate commercial law in Edinburgh and then a couple of days a week I was just illustrating… like greetings cards and the odd commission.” – Nicola [01:10]

• Making the Leap: She eased into illustration, rather than abruptly quitting her job:

  • “I think little by little, step by step is a good way to do things. It certainly worked for me until it didn’t.” – Nicola [03:13]
  • The hosts highlight the value of not putting “all your eggs in one basket” and transitioning gradually from employment to freelance illustration. [03:13]

The Power and Process of Crowdfunding

• Pandemic Pivot: The pandemic caused all freelance and illustration work to dry up—until a serendipitous meeting in Mexico led to illustrating a tarot deck for children.

  • “Our dogs really liked each other… she just pitched me, ‘Do you want to make a tarot deck for children?’” – Nicola [04:25]

• Kickstarter Success:

  • Combining her illustration audience and her collaborator’s tarot following, they launched the project on Kickstarter. Instagram and podcast appearances were main marketing channels.
  • “We crowdfunded on Kickstarter and were really fortunate… it was on their front page, in their news… it did really well.” – Nicola [06:10–07:00]

• Minimum Viable Product: They purposefully did not complete all illustrations before launching, using crowdfunding as a litmus test for demand.

  • “We didn’t have the product… most of the illustrations weren’t yet made… not wanting to create the entire thing before knowing whether we would actually be able to give birth to it.” – Nicola [07:37]
  • “That’s one of the best things about self publishing or doing your own project: you can check demand, test… proof of people actually wanting to buy it by giving you actual money.” – Katie [08:00]

The Wild Way Brand and Oracle Deck

• Blending Passions: Upon returning to Scotland, Nicola created a new project, “The Wild Way,” combining Scottish wildlife, oracle cards, and astrology:

  • “This deck is a 44 card deck, but 36 cards correspond with the decans of astrology… it’s a way of dividing the whole Zodiac into 36 slices.” – Nicola [10:23]
  • “I mixed it all up with Scottish animals and fauna and flora.” [10:54]

• Authenticity & ‘Flying Your Freak Flag’:

  • “You can take all these disparate parts of yourself and bring them together and create something that is uniquely you… people value authenticity.” – Nicola [12:08]
  • Katie adds: “I love that you are completely flying your freak flag.” [11:22]

• Self-Publishing the Guidebook: Used Backerkit for crowdfunding the book, relying on prior backers. Self-publishing allowed full creative control.

  • “The nice thing about self publishing is that you can do exactly what you want to do… but you have to make a lot of decisions.” – Nicola [21:04]

Astrology’s Role in Creativity

• Astrology as Insight: Nicola discusses her deepening study of astrology (“I’ve actually studied astrology more than I studied being a lawyer.” [13:52]) and how it can clarify unique creative signatures and major life cycles for artists:

  • “I have done deep dives into a couple of artists charts… it’s uncanny how the recurrence of their natal signature corresponds with some massive breakthrough…” [14:55]

• Using Transits: Astrology can time major launches, projects, or life moves (electional astrology), although not recommended for minor decisions.

  • “You pick the right moment to do things, you look ahead of time, you like the way that’s aligning with your chart… it does work.” [31:15]

Practical Tips for Creatives Considering Crowdfunding/Self-Publishing

Nicola’s Advice [23:06–25:49]:

• Start Early: Build excitement for your project well in advance.
• Grow Your Email List: Don’t rely on the instability of social media algorithms.
  • “You really want to be relying on your own email list, not on social media followers…” [23:15]
  • “Someone needs to see the thing like five or six times before they actually commit.” [24:09]
• Keep It Simple: Don’t overcomplicate with too many bells and whistles on your first campaign.
• Have Fun & Be Realistic: Accept the possibility of failure, but celebrate any level of success.
  • “If you get enough backers… and you get the thing made, that’s a huge achievement in itself.” [25:06]
• It Doesn’t Have to Be a Massive Project: Test the process with small items (like pins or calendars) to build experience and confidence. [26:12]
• Be Numerate: Understand costs, break-evens, pricing, and profit—success often lies in managing the business side. [21:06, 27:44]

The Importance of Intuition and Self-Trust

• Listening to Your Gut: Both hosts and Nicola stress taking cues from intuition, not waiting for external permission.
  • “Trust your gut… let them guide your creativity.” – Nicola [34:00]
  • “There’s a lot to be said for trusting your gut and those feelings and being like, I feel very strongly called to do this. That’s so powerful because so many of us don’t trust ourselves…” – Katie [32:11]

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “I think little by little, step by step is a good way to do things. It certainly worked for me until it didn’t.” (Nicola, [03:13])
• “I love that you are completely flying your freak flag. It’s like everything you’re interested in… tied them up…” (Katie, [11:22])
• “You can take all these disparate parts of yourself and bring them together and create something that is uniquely you.” (Nicola, [12:08])
• “Astrology is wild. The more time I spend with it, the more I study and the more I consult, the more it blows my mind.” (Nicola, [13:28])
• “You really want to be relying on your own email list, not on social media followers.” (Nicola, [23:15])
• “Trust your gut, actually.” (Nicola, [34:00])

---

Segment Timestamps

• 00:27–03:13 — Nicola’s early days: balancing law and illustration
• 04:14–05:56 — The Mexico dog-park meeting & first tarot deck project
• 06:10–08:21 — Crowdfunding the tarot deck: process and lessons
• 09:02–12:08 — Moving back to Scotland & birthing ‘The Wild Way’ oracle deck
• 13:52–15:44 — Studying astrology and mapping it onto creativity
• 17:09–18:25 — Astrology, recurring transits, and creative milestones
• 19:33–21:04 — Self-publishing the Wild Way book (crowdfunding, logistics, pitfalls)
• 22:54–26:42 — Nicola’s practical tips for creatives (start small, plan ahead, business skills)
• 31:01–32:30 — Astrology and electional timing; the importance of intuition
• 34:00–34:10 — Parting wisdom: “Trust your gut”

---

Final Takeaways

• You don’t have to pick just one thing: Combining passions and skills can make your creative practice richer and more authentic.
• Self-publishing and crowdfunding are powerful, accessible tools for creatives—but success takes planning, marketing, and business acumen.
• Growing and relying on your email list is critical for independent creators.
• Astrology can add another layer of self-understanding and timing to creative work—and Nicola showcases how deeply you can study a field.
• Listen to your intuition: Trusting gut feelings can guide you to unique opportunities, projects, and collaborations.

---

Guest Links:
Find Nicola Allan’s work and the Wild Way decks via the links in the episode show notes.

For more creative support, join the Good Ship Illustration community and check out their resources at thegoodshipillustration.com.

Transcript

[A]

Chat. Hi Katie, it's nice to be here. It's lovely to be here.

[B]

So we are hoping to talk about self publishing and crowdfunding for creative projects and a bit of astrology as well sprinkled in because you may or may not know that Nicola is an astrologer. She was a lawyer in a previous life but now as an illustrator astrologer and has so much interesting stuff to share. So yeah, I'm really excited.

[A]

A varied career thus far. Who knows what's next?

[B]

Who knows? That's the best thing about being alive, isn't it? You don't know what's coming next.

[A]

Kinda. Some people don't like that. So of not knowing. But as an astrologer I can see into the future somewhat. Yes, I love it.

[B]

So I know we met on Instagram many moons ago. I feel like it was 2016 maybe

[A]

I discovered you like approximately 100 years ago. I was, I think at that point I was working part time in corporate commercial law in Edinburgh and then a couple of days a week I was just illustrating but at that point I was doing kind of greetings cards and the odd commission and that sort. Think. Yeah, the usual thing that people go into, I think when they start illustrating. Which I think you did as well for a while, didn't you?

[B]

Oh yeah, I was like an early illustration. I was just like, I'll do anything for anyone. If you need a picture drawn, I can do it. I think it's a good way to cut your teeth and learn about it the hard way.

[A]

Yeah. And it blew up for a while. I started not really having any kind of ambitions, just wanting to put pictures on cards and have people buy them and like the kind of. I think I joined not on the high street way back when, probably like 2015 or something. And the first Christmas it went crazy. I had, yeah, I just, I sold out of one design and then I sold out of another design. I've actually just wrapped up my greetings card stuff.

[B]

So the end of an era.

[A]

It is, it really is. Yeah.

[B]

How was it in those early days when you were lawyering and illustrating at the same time? Like how did you squash them both in.

[A]

Yeah, I actually was working part time. I had made a decision that I was stepping back from law. Like, like not enjoying the job, being really good at it, but not, not feeling like it was my thing. Like I was never passionate about it. And yeah, I think at that point I had managed to somehow get myself a part time job doing what I was doing previously. And then I Had two. I think at that point I had two full days of illustrating. But it was a bit weird. It was putting different hats on, having to step into the role almost on the odd day during the week and then. Yeah. Catch up with things at the weekend. Yeah.

[B]

It was kind of context switch, isn't it?

[A]

Yeah, totally. I think I managed to find a balance. But, yeah, as I said, it wasn't something I was like, ever superbly passionate about and could see myself doing forever.

[B]

Yeah. But I think that's such a good way to do it because we see a lot of people in the Good Ship. They're like, I've quit my job. It's time to be an illustrator. And I was like, please keep something so that you can not put all your eggs in one basket and also gradually switch over. So is that how it worked for you? Like the illustration and then wean off the main job?

[A]

Exact. And it takes the pressure off because if you just cut. If you quit your job cold and then suddenly you have to pay all the things through art making and illustration or whatever creative outlet that you have, it's. Yeah, it can be a lot of pressure and it can take the joy out of it as well. Yeah. I think little by little, step by step is a good way to do things. It certainly worked for me until it didn't. So I. I was doing both. And actually by a little later in the process, I was working remotely doing it. So I was. Went from full time to part time, and then I was doing remote lawyering. So I was just doing ad hoc work and somehow managed to convince my boss that it would be okay for me to move to the other side of the world to do it as well.

[B]

So you went to Mexico, didn't you?

[A]

I did, yeah. I was living in Mexico for a couple of years, doing both illustration and then also, yeah, diving into projects here and there, still lawyering. But then the pandemic hit and all my sources of work dried up, all of them. So there was no illustrating, there was no lawyering. Everyone just put a pause on everything. Just, if you remember, just the world stopped. So I was left in a bit of a pickle until I happened to meet by chance an astrologer and a tarot reader in Mexico. Our dogs really liked each other. So we ended up kind of chatting. Yeah. And. And she knew I was an illustrator and she just pitched me, was like, do you want to make a tarot deck for children? Because I was doing more kind of kids sort of illustration at that point.

[B]

And.

[A]

Yeah, that's that the rest is history kind of thing. We ended up producing this tarot deck together, self publishing, bringing it into the world just by ourselves. We were on the edge of approaching a publisher and then me being me, I was just like, let's just do it ourselves. Let's just crowdfund it.

[B]

A publisher?

[A]

Yeah, let's just. I'm really impatient. So I was. I'm not waiting six months. Like I've got bills to pay. So I, yeah, I just, I threw myself into illustrating it. She did all the words and also got in touch with the printer at that point. For that project we used a printer in China where all, where the publishing industry gets all its books and products made. We brought it into the world not knowing whether it would work. It's a bit of a risk. It was. Not that I'd really thought it through. I was just like, let's just do it. And yeah, sometimes you just have to go where the wind takes you.

[B]

Yeah, it's the best way.

[A]

My biased opinion.

[B]

So how did you do it? I know you've got an audience on Instagram. Did the tarot lady that did the words, did she have an audience as well? And how did you. What platform did you use for the.

[A]

We. We. I think at that point Instagram was a little more community oriented that. I know things have changed quite a lot over the last few years. At that point, reels were just the glint in the eye of a meta exec and it was very much like the way it was, just very image based. So I think Instagram did quite like. We. I did have quite a decent sized audience at that point. But to be honest, it was, it was a combination because I had people who were interested in my illustration and then she had people following her who were interested in Tarot. And we, we also hit up a few podcasts and we did some chatting. But we, we crowdfunded on Kickstarter and we were really fortunate that Kickstarter loved our project. So it was on their front page, it was in their news, it was the. It was boosted. So it was appearing in people's. On people's. When they open up the website and they're checking what projects are new, that one's popping up all over the place. So yeah, it did really well and I think, yeah, we were quite fortunate because we didn't have a huge audience. But I think if you make a project, a product that is going to appeal and you do a really, you craft a really good campaign, people are, they're going to be interested. It's one of these things where you think to yourself or people say, build it and they will come. You know, I think there's. That. That has a lot of truth in it, actually.

[B]

Yeah. However you did, it sounds like you did put the work. Like you created the thing and you went on podcast to talk about it. I think it is some sneaky marketing without really thinking.

[A]

Probably. Yeah, probably. But not. Not a huge amount. It wasn't like we went in cold. We did do a bit of waving the flag before it launched, but we didn't have the product. Most of the illustrations weren't yet made because not wanting to create the entire thing before knowing whether we would actually be able to give birth to it, essentially.

[B]

I think that's so smart.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because you can you imagine like illustrating every single card and then it just being like, wow, nobody wants it. It's really. That's. I think that's one of the best things about self publishing or doing your own project is you can check demand, like test the feet, test the. What's the concept proof of people wanting to actually buy it by giving you actual money and then be like, okay, cool. People do want it. It's going to be profitable.

[A]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. So, yeah, it was. It was really heartening. Just people from all over the world. Like, we had so many random places who were like, yeah, I want a copy of that.

[B]

Yeah, I love that. And have you done more since then? You haven't you?

[A]

I have, yes. I ended up moving back to Scotland on a bit of a whim, actually. I was coming back for just three months when we could travel because I was essentially stuck in Mexico for quite a while. There were worse places, but it was nice to come. Yeah.

[B]

Mexico says.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. So many tacos. It was where I was living and I was very. But I was very much, like, holed up making a tarot deck at that point. You can. There's 78 illustration illustrated cards. That's a lot of work. Yeah.

[B]

I.

[A]

When I could, I came back to the UK and yeah, I was originally just going to hang around for a couple of months, catch up with friends and family and then head home. But when I got back here, I was like, oh, I think I want to stay. So I ended up just ditching my Mexican life. My. My house was like, full of all my stuff. My dog was there and. But it was such a strong feeling of no where you need to be now that I just. I put everything on pause. I moved back in with my folks and I eventually went back and picked up all my stuff and shipped my dog over. But when I came back, the reason I think was just like being in a place where I feel really connected to the land and the nature and the fauna and the flora. It was like meeting old friends again. And this kind of, this like really strong sensation just kept building and building until one day one of these disembodied ideas just lands in my head and it's, you have to make this thing now. And this thing was this deck which is the Wild Way, which is an oracle deck, but it's all Scottish animals illustrated kind of an oracle deck which has just like key words at the bottom of each. Each card like an oracle deck, but it is rooted in astrology. This, this deck is a 44 card deck, but 36 cards of the deck correspond with the decans of astrology. 36 decans and it's a way of dividing the whole Zodiac into 36 slices. So they're 10 degree slices each and they all correspond with one of these cards. But they have such a rich and magical and lore filled history. They go all the way back to the Egyptians. They all correspond with these symbolic images and they, they have appeared on the kind of the tombs of Egyptian pharaohs and they've been passed through the years in history and all of these descriptive, mixed it all up with the Scottish kind of animals and fauna and flora to create this deck. And then the other eight cards correspond with the wheel of the year. So we've got and Yule and Imhulk and Ostara. So that's baked into this as well. Yes. So that was the second one. That was a long way to say yes, that was the second deck that I have made.

[B]

Yes, sounds so good. And I love that you are completely flying your freak flag. It's like everything you're interested in and you've taken them all and tied them up and been like, it's my freak flag and my illustration work. I love it.

[A]

That's it. That's it. Because it's now become a brand. It's like the Huawei is now this brand that I'm. I'm running with and I'm creating. Then there was a book. So this is, this explains like all the, all the astrology that the book is based around. So if you want to learn more about the decans and then it has the sort of descriptions, the usual descriptions for each card, but then it dives way deeper into the kind of the underlying astrology and all the co rulers and the planets associated with each decan. So, yeah, freak flag massively flying over here.

[B]

But yeah, wildly.

[A]

Yeah. But it shows, I think that you can do that. You can take all these disparate parts of yourself and bring them together and create something that is uniquely you. And yeah, people really, I think they really value authenticity. And if you are producing something that you love, there's a chance that someone else will love it too. Yeah.

[B]

And even just that feeling of knowing that you're loving what you're doing, I think that just like infuses the whole project, all the illustrations with enjoyment and good vibes and you can feel it when you get the thing.

[A]

100%. Yeah. So.

[B]

And I love that it's about the decans, because I know I had an astrology reading with you last year. Was it last year? Late last year. And the decans, wasn't it in one of the decans you were like, oh, yeah, there's the scribe. Literally, it was just like, that's my job. Like I am a scribe. I was like, what? This is mind blowing.

[A]

So you have Mercury in the first decan of Gemini. So it's the first 10 degree slice. It's actually in the first degree. It's 1 degree of Gemini. You have Mercury and Mercury is at home in Gemini. It's domiciled there. So it's a really strong mercury. But in that first 10 degree slice, it's one of the really ancient author descriptions, does literally use the word ascribe. So I couldn't wait. When I saw that, when I was. When I was preparing for your reading, I was like, oh, Katie's gonna love this. It's her literal job title. And yeah, I think you said, oh, it's written the stars, which it very much is. Astrology is wild. The more time I spend with it, the more I study and the more I consult with people, the more it blows my mind. Yeah, it is.

[B]

I love how, like, it's very science. Like the study of it and how deeply you've studied it is like scientific level. I'm sure you said on our call, like you've actually studied astrology more than you studied being a lawyer.

[A]

Yes, so I did. Let's think about this. I did a four year degree. I did another year's diploma, so that's five in Scotland. And then I did two years, like as a trick, as a training contract to qualify as a lawyer and then practice. But I think, yeah, I'm up to. I think, I guess I started probably 2018, 2019. So we're like we're, we're at that level and moving beyond. And that's one of these things. It's one of these subjects where there's always more to learn, there's always a new technique, or there's some new research that another astrologer has poured themselves into and has discovered. Like, oh, this actually really works. Or I'm actually myself working on a huge astrology project at the moment as well. Looking at creativity in the birth chart and looking at artists, visual artists mostly, and how they're kind of. Their unique creative signature comes through in their work and then something we call recurrence transit. So if in your natal chart you have a particular signature, the next time it comes back around. Because these are huge cycles, we're dealing with some of the outer planets. They're years and years long, kind of 10, 15, 20, 30, 50, 100 years. And I have done deep dives into a couple of artists charts. And it is uncanny how the recurrence of their natal signature corresponds with some massive kind of breakthrough or turning point or kind of celebration or they're being celebrated for their work at a certain point in time. So that's really fun and extremely nerdy. It's so nerdy. There's like sun sign astrology that you read. You read your horoscope in Elle magazine or whatever and you're like, yeah, okay, whatever. It is not even scratching the surface of what's possible with this art. It is an art. It's. Yeah. Super nerdy. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, I love it. I love it. I've got my report. I think it's here actually on my desk. I've got like a little set of drawers and it's there so I can look at it whenever I'm like, why do I feel like this? Is there any reason? Can I blame some planets?

[A]

Yeah, always. There's always stuff going on. Yeah. And we're, we're in this, we're in this really interesting space where everybody's feeling on the edge of something because we have, we have some huge planetary cycles, some years long cycles, all about to shift or have shifted during the course of this year. So we had a little preview at the end of last year. And then actually we are on the eve of another huge, another huge change. So we're moving into this space where we felt like collectively, we felt like something's building. And we're about to find out what that is collectively, but also individually over the next couple of months.

[B]

Interesting. I know in human. So I'm really nerdy. About human design. And I know there's a lot of chat about 2027 as a year. Everyone's, this is a big year. And like projectors especially. You're a projector as well.

[A]

I think so. I can't remember. It's big for projectors, apparently.

[B]

I can't remember why it's big for projectors, but it is. I need to look more into that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I think probably most astrologers have been looking at 2026, but it rolls into 2027. So. Yeah, so if listeners have been feeling like, oh, I don't know, you're about to know.

[B]

You're gonna know.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So brace yourself. Yeah.

[A]

But those recurrence transits, I was just thinking about the one that you were born under. So Saturn, Neptune, conjunction, it doesn't come around. It comes around every 36 years and we just had another one. So when you were born, there was Saturn, Neptune, and then we've just had one just now and it's corresponding with you doing this huge new thing, releasing like your first book. It's a turn.

[B]

Yeah, that was. Yeah. That fits with your theory about the big artistic things, creative endeavors coming around at the same time as a cycle.

[A]

Exactly, exactly. So, yeah, watch to watch to see it grow into something over the next 36 years.

[B]

I like as well that you mentioned about me being born having a similar imprint as like the Internet.

[A]

Yeah, that's right.

[B]

This makes a lot of sense because I live here.

[A]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah. I think it. Yeah, I forget what it was in your chart. Exactly. But yeah, you were born around the same time as the Internet, so you share a similar signature. So it's baked into who you are. And it makes sense that you do spend so much time and you're at the forefront of what's possible on the Internet, I think as well, compared to a lot of people, the choice of

[B]

running an online business.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. But you see the sort of entrepreneurial spirit in your chart as well. Like you have Mars, like right in the first house. So it's showing the courage and bravery that it takes to run your own business or to create your own podcast. It's that front and center, go get em sort of energy you get with Mars right up in the first house.

[B]

This is something else I love about any modality or thing to study about everyone being different. Because I think sometimes I can get into my head, I'm just like, it's easy, just do it. Why are we doing the thing? And then when you really look at it, obviously Even just personality wise, everybody is so different. And my idea of what's just fun and easy, somebody else would be like, absolutely not. And something they're doing, I'm like, there's no way I could ever do that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I do. I think about that all the time because as an astrologer I look at a lot of charts and everybody is different. Everybody's version of reality is different. Everybody views the world in a very different way and you think you might be similar to someone but you really aren't. Like everybody's birth chart is completely unique to them. So yeah, when you view it through that lens you're like, yeah, okay, yeah, I get it now.

[B]

I wanted to actually ask. So the Wild Way book, was that self published as well and did you crowdfund?

[A]

Yeah, exactly the same way. For that one I used another crowdfund crowdfunding platform called Backerkit because I knew that the majority of people who would back the book would likely be people who had already backed the Oracle deck. And Backerkit is a much smaller platform. So I was, for that one I was more reliant relying on my kind of existing audience. And so I didn't do a huge amount of marketing for that one. And yeah, it was again, it was really successful. I managed to bring it into the world and it was hard work writing a book like it's hard and you. And with any kind of self published project you do have to be prepared to do everything yourself or, or, or connect with professionals who are going to be able to help you just say design the book or typeset or. I did everything and I'm not going to do that again. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It turned out fine. It turned out really well.

[B]

Gorgeous.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The hardback shiny thing, if you're just listening, you can't see it, but Nicola's holding up like a lovely dark green hardback book with stars and a big

[A]

moon, shiny foil stars. Yeah, it's a nice chunk. I wanted something chunky and like to be really weighty. Yeah. And I think that is the nice thing about self publishing is that you can do exactly what you want to do. You can create the product that you want with all the bells and whistles without having to ask anyone else.

[B]

Yeah, you don't need to wait for permission.

[A]

Exactly. Just you just go off into the world and do your thing. So yeah, that's like a positive but also like on the slightly more negative side. You do have to make a lot of decisions. Yeah. So if you're, if you're hesitating on something, you know that it is you that has to make the decision at the end of the day. And having a, having a head for business is, it's actually it's really important. It's like you couldn't do it without being able to manipulate your numbers and make sure that your eyes are dotted and your T's are crossed. And if you're a fan of spreadsheets, then you'll be fine.

[B]

Yeah, I think it's the best way to learn though, like to do the thing and then be like, oh, I have to charge X amount to cover or you've got to figure out what your cost price is. And then I don't know about packaging and posting. That'll be important. And also you don't want to do it for free. It's not a charity thing. So you want to also be paid.

[A]

Yeah, you're compensate compensated as well. You have to factor in a little bit to reward yourself for all your hard work. Not you're not just looking to bring it into the world, you're also looking. Certainly the way I'm doing things is I'm looking to also earn a living from doing it this way too. Right? Yeah, but it's good. I'll be printing. I'll be doing the third print run of the Oracle deck this summer. So I'll be giving birth to something new.

[B]

Are you allowed to tell us what it is? Is it top secret?

[A]

It's not top secret at all because yeah, it's a tarot deck which is under the Wild Way banner. So it will have the same kind of feel and quality of the at the Oracle deck I'm working with the same printer but it'll be a tarot deck so it's way chunkier. So It's a full 78 card tarot deck which is based on the Rider Waite Smith system, which if people are tarot people, they'll know and yeah, classic. And yeah, I'll be crowdfunding on Kickstarter in June.

[B]

I have a burning question. So if somebody's listening to this and they their ears are picking up and they're like, maybe I could self publish something or crowdfund something. What would be your top tips for them?

[A]

Oh, okay. I think start early so have a date in mind that you want to launch but then get people excited about it as early as possible. So I'm a couple months out, I'm two months out. But I've been promoting it since the beginning of the year. Really. And talking about it and just giving like kind of little hints and tips. So yeah, get people as excited as possible as early as possible and collect emails. You really want to be relying on your own email list, not on social media followers because there's, there's a high chance that, that those people will not even see what you're promoting when you even do promote it. So yeah, emails. There are tools out there that you can use to build a launch, like pre crowdfunding site. The one I'm using is back kit and it allows you to then take those emails and start creating a sort of a campaign, a pre kind of crowdfunding campaign. You're sending out emails to let them know it exists and then that it's coming soon and then it's a week before launch and building because I forget what it is, but I think it's something like someone needs to say the thing like five or six times before they will actually commit to the thing. So you really, you have to just get up in people's faces even though it's uncomfortable.

[B]

We always talk about this, me and Helen, like getting toddlers to eat new food. You've got to show them. Like I think it's even more, maybe even seven or 12.

[A]

Yeah, I think it is something really high.

[B]

And then they're like, oh wait, I know this.

[A]

Yeah, totally. Yeah, keep feeding people with your stuff. And then. Yeah, what other things would I recommend? What tips? I think be realistic as well. Don't try and don't try and create a campaign that has too many bells and whistles. Like for example, the first one that I did, there were loads of add ons and then there were like stretch goals and it just becomes really hard to manage because you're spinning plates and then you add in a few extra plates that maybe you just didn't need to spin to begin with. So keep it simple and yeah, and also just try to have fun. Try not to take it too seriously if it flops. But if it, if you manage to get enough backers to have a successful crowdfunding campaign and you get the thing made, that's a huge achievement in itself, I think. I think there's a bit of. Not disdain, but a few, like some people can be a bit like the self publishing. But actually it's really rewarding if you get a lot of satisfaction by getting involved and if you're someone who likes to do all the things, if you've got a head for business and you like to craft things and speak to the manufacturers and think about all the little details and it's perfect for someone like that. So yeah, that's probably my tips.

[B]

You're getting me inspired. I'm like, what could I public. No, Katie, calm down.

[A]

Well, you know, I'm going to encourage you definitely.

[B]

Very early on, I used to do, I used to do calendars and do pre orders and publish them myself. And I had so much fun and learned so many business lessons doing that. So I think even if somebody does it just to kind of gonna, I don't know, build the businessy head muscle, it's gonna be definitely.

[A]

And yeah, and it doesn't have to be like a whole book or a whole tarot deck or whatever. It can just be a little thing. Can be something that you're excited about. It could be just, I don't know, like a little enamel pin or it could be, I don't know, other illustrated product, like a calendar, like you said. So, yeah, it's, it's. I think we're living in an age where you can do it yourself. You don't have to rely on other people to hold your hand. You can just go out there and do it yourself. We have the tools, goals. You just need to have the confidence to just give it a shot.

[B]

There's never been a better time.

[A]

No, I agree.

[B]

And do you set goals? Do you have a good, better, best goal? I know for Kickstarter you sort of have to set a baseline, don't you? Like we need so many orders to make this happen.

[A]

Yeah, I'm still trying to work out what that is for this coming upcoming project, but I have a figure in my mind that I'd like to hit. So depending on how many emails I've collected and how many people have shown interest, and that's another reason for collecting these things early and getting as much interest. It's the same for pre orders on for what you guys are doing with your children's books. But yeah, ahead of time you get a sense of how many people are going to back this project. Then you can, then you can speak to your manufacturer and be like, okay, I think I'm going to need X amount. And then you can set the goal. Obviously, the more the better because your cost price goes down. The more things you're ordering, the more product you're ordering. The price of each one individually goes down. So then it's. Yeah, without getting too into the kind of technical nitty gritty, but that's a basic kind of thing to think about.

[B]

That makes sense. And I love that you mentioned Email addresses. Because I feel like I talk about this all the time, but it's basic maths, isn't it? If you have a hundred people on your email list, there's a general percentage of people. Firstly, a percentage will open the email. Secondly, a percentage will click anything. Thirdly, a percentage who will buy. And it's. It is, it's basic math. Of course it depends what you're selling and how you communicate. Of course the email looks. But really it comes down to really basic, like how many eyeballs were on it. And people can get so upset, especially creatives, I feel they get so upset. It's not selling. My website's not working. I'm like, four people saw it and they weren't even the right people. But if you're building your own email list, that's so much more powerful than relying on social media. Because you're right. The percentages for email selling, I can't remember them off the top of my head, but I do remember that they are pitiful. For social media.

[A]

I think it's. I think it's for email list something like 5% of people who are on, say people have just on your mailing list, it's something like 5% will actually go right through the process and buy, which is very low. So if you can, if you're. That's average. So if you're hitting numbers above that, then yes, yeah, you're going to be doing fine. But yeah, it is, it can be pitiful.

[B]

Like you say, yeah, but also once you know that percentage, I think in the past I've read like 1 to 3% is even the thing. But once you know that percentage, then you go into a, like anything, a launch, selling something and you're like, I've got a thousand people. So I know that 30 people should roughly buy if I send enough email as well.

[A]

But.

[B]

And then it's. You're not crying because nobody bought. You're not saying only 35 people joined, but really that's actually above the percentage.

[A]

Yeah, I'm actually doing well here. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

But this is the kind of maths I get really excited about because I'm like, this is so tangible and makes real sense and we can set. Then you can set goals that you can control as well. So rather than sales goals, you can have how many email addresses or how many people you want to express their interest.

[A]

Because here's the thing as well. Like maybe that person doesn't buy from you this time, but there's chances are that if you keep, if they stay on your mailing list and they see who you are, they see the kind of things you're making. They get. They get to know your vibe. Chances are, a little later down the line they'll be like, oh, actually, I do quite fancy that thing. And then they'll buy it. So, yeah, it's not a wasted email address, it's someone who's expressed an interest. So that's something to be celebrated, I think, in itself. Yeah.

[B]

And some people do that for literal years. They were like, oh, I've been getting your emails since 2015. And I'm like, was I doing emails then? Like, what? But then they'll finally join something.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. And to bring it back to astrology, everything happens when it happens, because it's happening for a reason. You can see the transits. I'm thinking about you and what you've been up to over the last maybe month or two. You know, we saw it coming. We could see that you were going to be really busy and that certain things were coming along. So in the same way, that person who hasn't bought anything from you before, it's because the stars haven't aligned, which seems such a simple thing to say, but it's true. You see it, you see it playing out this way. Yeah.

[B]

And you can control the things you can. Can control, leave the things you cannot control.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Keep showing up and doing the thing and then eventually, you know, you're doing the thing, you're showing up and the stars are in the right place and the person who's buying or licking is in the right space. It's magic.

[A]

It is, yeah. I think, as well as an astrologer, and when you see. You see yourself trying to do something and you see the corresponding transits or the particular patterns that are coming up and you know when it's going to hit the mark and you know when it's not going to be quite as successful. So this is another branch of astrology, it's electional astrology. You pick the right moment to do the things, you look ahead of time. You're like, oh, that looks pretty good. I like the way that's aligning and I like the way it's talking to my own natal chart. It's a whole thing. You can approach an astrologer and ask for an election. People get weddings elected, people have big project launches elected. They have, I don't know, all sorts of important things. I don't. I wouldn't recommend, like going to an astrologer for a social media post. Or something. But the bigger things in life, we. You can time it for the most favorable outcome. And it does work. It's. We don't really know how, we don't really know why, but it does.

[B]

And even you touched on when you came back to Scotland to see friends and things and stayed for three months. There's a lot to be said for trusting your gut and those feelings and being like, I feel very strongly called to do this. That's so powerful because so many of us don't trust ourselves or don't listen or think, oh God, that's a crazy idea, and shove it down, that is

[A]

the hill that I will die on. Like, you have to trust your gut. Like it is speaking to you all the time. All those little whispers that you just, you don't, you know, a lot of people don't tend to listen to, or they'll maybe dismiss them as something that's not particularly important. Usually it's. It's what's guiding you forwards. So you do have to listen to those little voices without sounding completely mental.

[B]

It's giving me good. Listen to the voices. Maybe not all of them. Depends what they're telling you to do.

[A]

I was gonna say it depends what they're saying, but yeah, it very much was that. It was like that for me because I was out walking. I'm in the middle of the countryside. I was out walking. And yeah, these, this kind of. This idea comes to you when you listen, when you're open. I think that's another thing as well. You do have to stay open because if you aren't open to receive these ideas or these, this guidance, they won't bother with you.

[B]

Yeah. Because they'll keep trying to be, oh, she's not listening, never mind. Move on.

[A]

Yeah, they'll go find someone else. I'm a big believer in that as well. If the idea doesn't find the right recipient immediately, I'll go find someone else.

[B]

So have you ever had magic?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I love that, the idea of an idea like roaming around looking for somebody and then be like, excuse me, could you bring me to life? And then you're too slow. I'm on to the next person.

[A]

Exactly. It needs to come into the world now. So if you're not gonna make it, I'm gonna go find someone else who will.

[B]

So, yeah, this has been incredible. I have loved everything we've talked about. Do you have any final messages or anything you'd like to say before we say bye bye?

[A]

I think just trust your gut, actually.

[B]

Perfect.

[A]

Yeah. I think. I think just listen to those little voices and let them guide your creativity as well.

[B]

Yeah, amazing. Thank you so much, Nicola. I'll put all the links on the show notes so people can find you and see what you're up to and everything and. Yeah, we'll speak to you soon.

[A]

Perfect. Thanks, Katie. Bye.