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- [00:00]
Courtney Smith
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Willow Boutique Owner
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- [00:31]
Kelsey from Goop
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- [01:36]
Gwyneth Paltrow
When you are pioneering anything or introducing.
- [01:39]
Courtney Smith
New ideas to the culture, you get criticized.
- [01:42]
Gwyneth Paltrow
You do? Yeah.
- [01:43]
Courtney Smith
Did you hear about that? I didn't find the one.
- [01:46]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I found someone I respected and we made it the one. In the sort of longing kind of view of love, people understand each other.
- [01:53]
Courtney Smith
As if by magic.
- [01:55]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Nothing in itself is addictive on the one hand. On the other hand, everything could be addictive if there's an emptiness in that person that needs to be filled.
- [02:02]
Courtney Smith
I now know that nobody changes until they change their energy. And when you change your energy, you change your life.
- [02:10]
Podcast Host/Producer
Gwyneth I'm Gwyneth Paltrow. This is the GOOP Podcast, bringing together thought leaders, culture changers, creatives, founders and CEOs, scientists, doctors, healers and seekers here to start conversations. Because simply asking questions and listening has the power to change the way we see the world. Here we go.
- [02:33]
Kelsey from Goop
Welcome to the GOOP Podcast. I'm Kelsey from from goop. If you Listen to Gwyneth's recent AMA episode. You know, she's taking a little holiday break, but we'll be back in the new year with an incredible lineup of guests. Until then, we'll be revisiting some of your favorite conversations from the archive, along with a few new guest hosted episodes. We're excited to share. Thanks for listening.
- [02:58]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Welcome to the 2026 Goop podcast forecast. And before we get launched, I want to thank the GOOP crew for everything you do. I've been part of this team for years, and I couldn't feel more grateful and inspired. So thank you. And it's my honor today to work with my colleague, my friend, my mentor, Courtney Smith. Courtney Smith is a renowned Enneagram coach, and beyond that, she's an author and a powerful transformation guide for individuals, groups, corporations, perhaps the whole universe itself. Welcome, Courtney.
- [03:45]
Courtney Smith
Oh, it's so nice to be here with you in particular, and thank you so much for that warm and appreciative welcome. I'm excited.
- [03:53]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Yes, me too. So I want to tell the listeners how this is going to go. I brought Courtney on because one thing I've become more passionate about is the many portals to self awareness and awakening and collective awakening. I happen to have an expertise over 40 years in psychological astrology, and I've studied many other symbol systems, and I have not met before someone like Courtney Smith who engages the Enneagram in such a profound and accessible way. So I'm going to start with a breakdown of the astrology, and Courtney's going to interact with me about that, and then we're going to go into the Enneagram, and by the time we're done with this podcast, you all should have a sense of many different ways you can participate in your highest good and highest self in the year 2026. That is the outcome we desire. Right, Courtney?
- [04:55]
Courtney Smith
Yeah, I know you're going to talk about fire, and I'm most passionate about people feeling fire inside themselves.
- [05:03]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Yes. And one of the biggest compliments I hear young people say is that's fire. So I love that. The year 2026, astrologically, in Chinese astrology, is the year of the horse. And when you think of that tremendous fiery horse, galloping the horse, bucking the horse, winning, think of the horse. But in astrology in the west, the horse is associated with Sagittarius, which is also a fire sign ruled by Jupiter, which is about expansion, blessings, abundance, and possibilities. So we have this Horus course year, and then in February, for the first time in thousands of years, Thousands of years, people, we have Saturn and Neptune conjoined in the sign of Aries. Aries is another fire sign ruled by Mars. So just between these two signatures of the Sagittarius energy of the horse, this rare combination of Saturn and Neptune and Aries, which I'll break down for you, we have on the Enneagram. I was talking to Courtney about this, a solid seven, eight year, and Courtney will break that down later. But the other magnificent thing that happens in 2026 is that Uranus, the planet of change and innovation and creative disruption, is in the sign of Gemini come May and for the next seven years. And that's a air sign. And then Jupiter moves out of Cancer, which is all feely, warmy, gooey in to the sign of Leo in August, which is yet another fire sign. So, Courtney, you are not as familiar with astrology, so you can act as the sounding board for questions. We basically have a tremendous year of action, Passion and wind and fire, air and fire.
- [07:21]
Courtney Smith
Okay, so the first question I want to ask you is you've alluded to it a little bit, but I want to just be more specific for those of us who are relatively new to astrology. What is fire all about? What is the potential? What's the opportunity? What? How would I know it when I see it?
- [07:38]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Excellent question. Well, the fire signs in astrology are Aries, Leo and Sagittarius. And one disclaimer I want to make right at the beginning of the show. Again, Courtney, who I affectionately call Neo because she runs the Matrix, we were talking about in our personal growth, we want to claim every sign and every Enneagram number as a possibility for growth. So when I say Aries, Leo, Sagittarius are the fire signs, they're for you as well, whoever you are listening, because they are each symbols, metaphors for a certain type of fire. With Aries, we have the fire of boldness, of leadership, of go for it. And it's very impulsive, it can be reckless and dangerous and it can be very egocentric. But the primary Mars, Aries energy is just do it, stop talking, do it. Then we have Leo, which is the fire of the sun. And it's about full self expression, the creativity unleashed, the free child, the love of love and creativity. So it's this kind of engagement fire of being totally present and innocent. Then we have the fire of Sagittarius, ruled by Jupiter, which is philosophical fire, the fire of wisdom, embodied wisdom. What is it like when we have mind, body, spirit, all housed in this container of a torching? Quest for learning and education. And it's a beautiful kind of fire of the higher mind. Does that help answer what fire's for? Yeah.
- [09:32]
Courtney Smith
And so what's a question that you would want me to be thinking about through the lens of astrology? Does this, like, what's my initial reaction to this? Does it excite me? Does it scare me? Would that point me in a certain way in terms of how I respond and use this energy? Talk to me about.
- [09:52]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I think that everything we want to center on today is how does this land in you? Because that's going to be a big signal to where the work is. So for me, I've got a lot of fire in my chart. So when I hear fire, I immediately think of, wow, this is so exciting. But somebody that has a lot of water in their chart or earth in their chart may actually go to the scary side of fire. Out of control, dangerous, sudden, burn it down. And what's true about the archetypal world that we live in is we will see all flavors of this. So the question you want to ask yourself is, how can you as a human being best use this prescient fire that is basically and always about your own evolution? How can you step into. And we want to use the metaphors of walking, moving, stepping into. Because this is an action year. This is not an inaction year. We've been in a place where many of us had to reflect and summarize. We're now in a place where what have you built? Are you ready to take action? Will your voice be in your walk, not just your talk? No more virtue signaling.
- [11:14]
Courtney Smith
Beautiful. So the idea is one opportunity for all of us is whatever. Wherever we've been sitting for the last several years, each of us on our own journey, now is the time to take whatever we learned and actually manifest or be creative with it in some way.
- [11:32]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Yes, excellent point. And Pluto is in the sign of Aquarius. So where we've shifted over the last year and will be for many, many years now, is it's just not about me anymore. It's about we. So the manifesting we're doing, the actions that we're doing, need to align with our values of collective well being if they're going to be profitable for all people. Instead of just the ego's drive for ambition and self recognition.
- [12:05]
Courtney Smith
What would be some signs that I'm getting into trouble with this energy? You know me, I'm always looking out for the downside. What would, how would I know that? I've, I've, I've strayed off the path.
- [12:14]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Well, I can give you very personal examples because I live with this kind of fire. Yeah. Don't answer the text the second you get it and you're upset. Never, ever. Don't press send on the email that you feel certain is going to change somebody's mind or life. Don't get into a debate, political or otherwise, when the person hasn't consented to even have an argument. Don't have that affair because it's so easy to have. Because the best statement lately is if you don't lie, there's nothing you have to remember. And I want to say that again because I've been a liar in the past so I can own that it cost me. If I lie, I have to cover and remember a lot of things. If I don't lie, there's nothing to remember because whatever I say is true. So that tendency to just get what I want without thinking of impact or consequence to other is very high. When I'm in my impulsivity, when I'm in that fire, what's in it for me? Me, me, me, me, me. That's very fire. On the other hand, and this is what we need a lot of right now, courage. Think of the word courage. What's moral courage? What's physical courage? What's emotional courage? That's where fire really becomes illuminating. So first we have to stop the impulsive, destructive behavior that comes from a certain primitive reactivity and selfishness and go to the place of how can my courage benefit myself and others? Key question for 2026.
- [14:02]
Courtney Smith
Beautiful. And so what would. Would you want to talk about each of the signs a little bit and how they bump up against this? Would you want to shift a little bit to the Enneagram and blend it? What feels right to you in this now moment?
- [14:14]
Gwyneth Paltrow
It's just a coverage of the elements and then we'll go right into the Enneagram because we love to talk about that. So, first of all, I've covered Aries, Leo and Sagittarius. Those are the fire signs. The Earth signs are Taurus, Virgo and Capricorn. Now, all of us have these capacities within us, but the people that really identify or resonate with those signs, Taurus, Virgo and Capricorn. That is going to be a challenging year because Earth likes to go slow. Earth like steadiness, Earth likes routine. Earth likes fixity, security. Fire, as a metaphor, is not about security. It is about growth and illumination. So if you identify with those signs, then you are going to be urged to move before you are shaken. Like, choose the change. If you choose the change, the fire can be like a light under your butt to get you going. And I would say commit in 2026 to be around people that want a big yes from you. Instead of accepting your comfortable no, go toward yes people. That's the earth signs. Then we move to the air signs. Gemini, Libra, Aquarius. Gemini, Libra, Aquarius. These are all air signs, which is mental. It's about ideas and it's about conversation. It's all the air kinds of images. Fire and air. I was thinking about this so much. Can be fabulous. It can make things bigger, bolder, brighter, bring the air to the creativity, bring the air to the passion. But it also can be wind with fire is very treacherous. So you want to really harness the mind with the fire. The mind is the air sign. So, like, make sure I have to do this a lot. I wake up every day and do at least an hour of practice setting my mind in the right direction. Now, not everybody has that time, but I would say everyone could give it five minutes this year. It will benefit you. Then finally, the water signs, which are Cancer, Scorpio, and Pisces. Oh, you might be a Scorpio.
- [16:41]
Courtney Smith
I might be.
- [16:43]
Gwyneth Paltrow
That's right. Usually hidden and secretive, so don't out her. But anyway, Scorpio, Cancer and Pisces. Water. Water signs are the feelers, the nurturers, the sensitive ones, the psychic ones. So. So the water signs are going to have a bit of a calling out with the fire because things are going to happen fast and rapidly and the reactivity has to be toned down. So for the water people, they have to get very good at stomping, shaking, screaming, sobbing in brief spurts. This will not be a year that the water people can be overwhelmed by their own feelings, because then they will feel very left behind. But we can use the fire metaphor with the water to just heat things up and release things quickly. So, again, if I was a water sign, I would do some emotional hygiene work. I would definitely work with Courtney in the Enneagram. Coaching and growth work. I would do breath work. I would do anything to help move the feelings out of prophecy into just a fleeting experience.
- [18:03]
Courtney Smith
Beautiful.
- [18:04]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Any questions on that from a water sign?
- [18:07]
Courtney Smith
Well, I think that that idea of being with a feeling but finding a container that's bigger than the feeling is really important. And I will speak to myself that for those of us who feel.
- [18:24]
Gwyneth Paltrow
The.
- [18:24]
Courtney Smith
Challenge is to not be the only thing that's happening and to find the part of ourselves that is actually okay and is actually centered, still capable, ready to go. All of those things in addition to the one who feels.
- [18:44]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Yes. So again, this year is about not just inhabiting and owning our multiplicities, but. But really accessing all our parts. So many of us have been into rigid or restricted identities. I'm the feeler, you're not. I'm a this, you're not. And in this year, we're going to have to enlarge our scope that I am this and this and this and this. And which part of us is best to resource in this given moment? So now we get to go to the fun, fun part of Courtney and the Enneagram. So I thought you could just riff on how many Enneagram numbers are there and why do we care?
- [19:32]
Courtney Smith
Okay, so the Enneagram is a personality typology system, just like astrology is. There are nine different types in the Enneagram system. It gets progressively more complicated if you wish, but it starts out with nine different types.
- [19:49]
Gwyneth Paltrow
And.
- [19:49]
Courtney Smith
And you can think of each of the types as having gift and shadow. Each one of the types is oriented around a specific beautiful human quality, that is the gift of the type. And at the same time, because they like or have a preference for inhabiting that gift, it becomes overused and then perverted. It's asked to do what it's not supposed to do.
- [20:18]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Overused, would you say?
- [20:19]
Courtney Smith
Yes, over, overused, and misused.
- [20:22]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Got it.
- [20:23]
Courtney Smith
And so what happens then is you get a person who's locked into one way of being, which is what you were describing as the opportunity for all of us. You get a person who's locked into one way of being and is sort of like the hammer who's always in search of the nail. And the Enneagram is about understanding what. What that box of assumptions is that you. You may even not know you're limiting yourself with, and then studying and becoming more aware of the other types, because those are opportunities for you to flex into underused parts of yourself so that you can become what I would call truly responsive to the moment, rather than having a preconceived notion of how you're going to show up in the world because of your gifts or talents or your identity or, you know, the way your family taught you, et cetera. It really is what is the moment asking of me? And can I reach for that way of being in an emergent way? Putting my identity aside, Chronic migraine, 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more, can make Me feel like a spirit spectator in my own life. Botox Anabotulinum toxin a prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. It's not for those with 14 or fewer headache days a month. It's the number one prescribed branded chronic migraine preventive treatment prescription.
- [21:53]
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- [22:30]
Courtney Smith
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- [22:39]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Excellent. So I think we're ready for the reveal. If you could go through each number briefly, but also given that we have this fiery seven, eight year, what might be the particular road to fulfillment for each of those numbers?
- [23:00]
Courtney Smith
Okay, so the first thing I would say is even this conversation, which is so fun for me, is we'll go through each of the types and we can talk about if you're type one, if you're type two, but to even use the enneagram archetypally and to say these are there, you are, you are a type, and you can be a type 3 or type 4. But also there is something to be gained for each of us in studying the energy, the way of being, the gift, the shadow that each of these types represents as this particular aspect of humanity. And then that's going to bump up against your traditional way of being and you're going to have a reaction to that. And if it's complimentary like for you, you know, you're sort, I would imagine part of you is like, finally the world is like catching up to my pace, catching up to my energy, catching up to like how fast I want to run. So the year of the Fire Horse, for someone who's a seven like you is it's a complimentary energy or which means there's going to be blind spots that you need to pay particular attention to. For someone who's like me, like a type 6, the energy of type 7 is profoundly confronting in a particular way. And so that friction, that activation, is an opportunity for me to grow, if I choose to take it that way. So that's the way that we'll talk about each of the numbers. I do want to say that this Aries Sagittarius combination, as you mentioned, through the lens of the Enneagram, would really sit in the sort of in between space between type 7, which is known as the enthusiast, and type 8, which is known as the challenger. You talked about fire, earth, air, water, signs. Through the lens of the Enneagram. We have heart types, body types, and head types. Type 8 is a body type, which means it's very much about intensity, action. Let's just go do it. Type 7 is a head type, which you mapped onto air, which is the idea of, as you said, fire in the headspace, fire in terms of possibility and ideas. And so in the intersection where seven meets eight in the Enneagram, it is the. The fastest head type meeting the fastest body type, which creates a ton of explosive energy. That's the opportunity. And what I hear in that is I often call that space, the space of the maverick or the space of the flamethrower. This is energy that really is comfortable with disruption. And so what you spoke to, which I want to emphasize is this is a year of disruption. And the question is, what are you going to disrupt in your own life? Where actually does disruption benefit you? And rather than being at the effect of a disrupted world, how can you choose the energy of disruption and apply it intentionally in your own life for the sake of your own growth?
- [26:15]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Can you give some example? Because I immediately think of things that I want to do to disrupt my life, but maybe other people need a few examples.
- [26:24]
Courtney Smith
Yeah. And so let's also be clear that like disruption, like through the lens of the 7 8, flame throwing, it's big, it's bold, it's huge. You know, marriages fall apart. I quit my job, I moved to another country. It's got this, like, big. It's got to be big. And what I mean by disruption is I change a pattern or a habitual way of being in my life. That's what I'm choosing to disrupt. And so I would look at where disproportionately does my energy go. Am I spending too much time on my family or too much time on my work? Am I a people pleaser? And that's my pattern that needs to be disrupted? Do I have trouble saying no? Is that the pattern that needs to be disrupted? I would look at. And this is again, maybe what you would say, the water. So I would look at what's happening inside me that needs to be disrupted rather than it necessarily needing to have this big impact on the world. Often smaller changes internally that creates the alignment and the buildup and the momentum that leads to more sustainable change outside of ourselves.
- [27:38]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I'd like to give an example at this point of a small disruption, because you're right, I would go to the big. But what I've noticed creeping into my life is I've always been known to be a messy person, causing messes and chaos in the house for others that they don't appreciate, especially my partner. And I'm in this compulsive thing where I want everything to be Zen and clean and I want to put everything away. And I always do let things go, but I actually want to live in a more sparse and very thoughtful, clean and ordered environment. For me, this would be a lifetime of disruption and so appreciated by someone else.
- [28:23]
Courtney Smith
That's a great example. And the other way I might sort of describe it is the size of the disruption required is proportionate to how much we are willing to listen. So if we are open to seeing, where am I stuck, where am I limiting myself, where am I in a habit? The more open I am to moving out of that, the smaller the disruption needs to be for me to be responsive.
- [28:54]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Beautiful. I can think of so many things when you say that, that just by shifting one bit this way, the entire tableau changes, right?
- [29:05]
Courtney Smith
And what we might say is like on a broad. Regardless of your politics, we are in place in life where because there's a lot we have not been paying attention to, we are collectively calling for massive disruption, because smaller disruptions we have not heeded. And so this is where the flamethrower energy actually does have is necessary because it is basically turning up the heat and saying, we tried to do this sweetly, calmly, methodically, and it didn't disrupt, guys. So guess what? We need to get it a little hotter. And so you might have your own personal circumstances, individuals, where you are experiencing a profound life change. And the question would be, what pattern did I not change earlier that I needed profound disruption to actually pay attention to? And certainly we can see that at a collective level.
- [30:11]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Yes, I just do want to name, because of my age range, lots of my friends have gone through deaths lately. And certainly that was nothing that they could have organized for as a disruption. But I think you and I agree we're all going to die. This is a natural part of living even in heinous circumstances we're all having. One way that we leave here and even preparing for death is to just keep asking the question, am I loving as most completely as I can and am I living as alive as I can? That's our only inoculation we wouldn't you say?
- [30:54]
Courtney Smith
Yeah, I think that, I mean, that is type 8 the challenger stands for aliveness stands for I want to experience fire inside my body. That's actually a profoundly informative piece like that can direct me in terms of where I'm supposed to put my life energy, what fills me with an activated fire. And so that's actually what's on the table. When I HEAR you describe 2026 for those of us that are not sevens or eights, it is actually in addition to the question where what needs to be disrupted in my own life? What is fire inside myself that I have not been paying attention to that actually I'm being asked to re reference as reliable guidance for the direction I should go.
- [31:53]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Okay, now I think it would be helpful if you would go through 1, 2, 3 and just what their particular nuanced response to this could look like.
- [32:05]
Courtney Smith
Okay, great. So type one is called the reformer. And type one, like some archetypes might be, like a librarian, like Mary Poppins, Gandhi, Mandela, like that would be the high side of type one. This is a very principled, ethical, really living life by right versus wrong and willing to not in a beautiful, but also in a shadowy way, not going to compromise on those principles. So that's the energy of type 1. It is profound integrity. So this energy, when it meets up against the activated galloping horse that you're describing about 2026, what is on the table for this type is can I trust exactly what I was describing, that when I think about what it means to be an ethical person, what lights me up inside myself is relevant to that question. It is not energy that needs to be ignored or suppressed. It is energy that needs to be trusted. Which doesn't mean it's wanton and, you know, sort of like id instinctual energy all over the place. But 2026 for type one represents an opportunity to re include my internal fire, my internal passions in how I conduct my life. Type 1 is gonna get activated by the shadowy side of the fire horse, which as you described, is not paying attention to consequences and is wantonly, sort of recklessly moving through the world. And so what type ones can do, what their offering will be this year is let me claim fire inside myself, but let Me also ask people to be intentional with this energy and to take stock of its consequences before I act. So that's type one. Type two is called the helper. And this is archetypically what we think of like with the all giving mother. So this is the generous, warm, altruistic, physically demonstrative. I am taking care of others in the most profound way. The shadow side for type 2 then becomes that I ignore my own needs because I'm so focused on giving to others. And then a bunch of things fall out from that. So for type two, the opportunity here is to rediscover my own wants and desires and to really use this year to disrupt the pattern of my attention going to the wants and desires of others rather than my own. And I might get curious about in what ways I've been kind of slyly running my own wants and desires through an altruistic lens. And would I be willing to claim that I have a right to to want and desire over here? I have a human birthright over here to want and desire. Now the way that two type Twos are going to get activated by the energy of 2026 and this is again the opportunity that they bring both seven and eight, as I mentioned, seven is a heart, a head. Type eight is a body type. What they are missing is, is between the two of them, they are missing the heart. And so type two is inviting this energy to pay attention to emotional attunement. What the heart actually longs for, rather than just like impulsive energy of the body or impulsive energy of the mind. Not just like oh this would be fun or like this would feel good in my body, but actually what satisfies me, what is what I'm truly longing to experience? And can I use the activating energy of 2026 in that direction rather than just in an instinctual impulsive way.
- [36:36]
Gwyneth Paltrow
One comment. I think of the Twos as in their highest masters of empathy. They're very, very empathetic. And this year will require enormous empathy empathy.
- [36:50]
Courtney Smith
I appreciate you saying that. And really the opportunity is as well. Like 2 understands, I can't have a me without a we that is in the bones of the two. And so there is an opportunity with the 78 energy of activation. What would it mean to also honor that you too are a fire horse? You too have an activation inside yourself. And. And what would it mean for us to dance and co create together honoring that we both are human beings who want and desire rather than me trying to control or trample or get my own way. So that's the opportunity of type two. Keep going. Type three is the achiever. So type three, I like to call type three best in class. So type three exists across a whole bunch of different domains, but you know them as best in class. And so there's a lot of celebrities. Bill Clinton is a type 3. Madonna is a type 3. Michael Jordan is a type 3. These are all people who distinguish themselves and their chosen field through accomplishment. So this type is pretty fast also and likes to see results. So the 7, 8 energy that you're describing, I predict will feel very good for a type 3 achiever. What is confronting about this energy, however, is it is not about how things land with others. It is about what feels right to me. And so there is an opportunity for a return to authenticity for type 3 through this energy. Trusting that, as I said, the fire inside, rather than the appreciation or the validation I get from my accomplishments, this is about type 3 really releasing their sense of self tied to success and a fear of failure. Because disruption is not about success. Disruption is about change that leads to the next change, that leads to the next change, that leads to the next change. Rather than having a this is what I need it to look like, this is what success looks like. I got to go towards that. Is there something you want to say about that?
- [39:13]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Well, I'm just always struck by the best in class people that I know and admire and how much of their lives have been scaffolded on a certain cultivated public image. And I would say this is the anti image year. That will be a difficulty for those people that have tried to craft themselves in a certain very curated way. People will blow right through that. Right.
- [39:42]
Courtney Smith
And this is what I was speaking about earlier. If that's your pattern and this is a year about disruption, that pattern is likely to be disrupted. And the question is, do you want to self disrupt it where it can be more intentional or do you want it to be disrupted by the energy of others? And that to me would be the opportunity for this type is to again listen to smaller disruption cues rather than needing a big disruption to actually cause myself to look at how I operate and limit myself. Type 4 is called the individualist. This is archetypically the tortured artist. This is Prince Basquiat, Ella Fitzgerald. So we all know that type of. So this is one of the slowest moving types of the Enneagram. Because this type is archetypically understands that life is about self expression. Like the type 4 understands the world as a canvas on which I Experiment to figure out who I really am. This type tends to move slowly because or even starts and doesn't finish things or has a lot of fantasizing about what it could look like to act. But then I don't follow through because for them it's not about outcome, it's not about output, it's about expressiveness. So my prediction is the speed of 2026 is going to be profoundly confronting for a type four. And they are likely to judge it as show, shallow, cheap, superficial. And that is actually going to be the growth opportunity for the type 4. What does it mean to both be deep and fast moving at the same time? Can I trust that I find myself, I find depth through engagement in the world rather than kind of sitting back and navel gazing and kind of, you know, thinking about a self. I actually learn who I am through the doing. And that is the opportunity for type four is to have a self that's defined by action as opposed to rumination. Type 5 is called the investigator. Type 5 is sort of the really cerebral. You might call like scientist or engineer, although they're in all kinds of fields. One of my favorite type 5s is Georgia O', Keeffe, but this is also Bill Gates. Emily Dickinson would be another five, Mark Zuckerberg. And so this is a similar sort of Setup to type 4. Type fives really like to understand things at a mind level before they engage. And in fact, type fives often isolate themselves or detach themselves from the world in order to figure it out before they engage. And so this is the fire horse energy of like, let's just get out there and do it, people really activating for a type 5. And in that activation, in that friction is the opportunity to understand. Some things can only be learned and mastered through engagement and the doing. You know, like the classic thing. You going to say something?
- [43:11]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Well, I just wanted to give an example because I am a mental type, although not a 5, but I would never want to go on a roller coaster. And my partner loves the thrilling roller coaster. So she said the whole key to it is you get on the roller coaster and you scream the whole time. And I really enjoyed it. Just a note. Vibes. Amazing.
- [43:36]
Courtney Smith
For me, the analogy is like I can read about riding a bicycle, but really to learn how to ride a bicycle, I have to ride a bicycle. There's just no other way to do it. And so it's really trusting that this energy is necessary to teach us about how something works in this world rather than us having a mental abstraction of.
- [43:59]
Gwyneth Paltrow
It I would add that it's going to be one of those years where fail fast, retirement, recover faster. It's an experimentation year. So it's going to be important for each of us to not get tied to our results more.
- [44:18]
Courtney Smith
The process, beautiful, that iterative emergence. We're all learning this year. Like, that would be another sort of like, upside of disruption is we are all learning, transforming, growing collectively if we choose to. And so there's a lot of grace as we're all kind of practicing and learning and feeling into something new. And that might be something that all types could work on is profound compassion. Or when you see someone being disrupted or choosing to disrupt themselves, can we support them with grace and compassion as they ride an edge?
- [44:59]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Yes. And I would love for the first time in the history of humans for this to be the year of our best mistakes. Make the mistakes, say they were mistakes, learn from the mistakes and move on. One of the biggest failings I think, of humankind is accountability. And this would be the year where you could grow the fastest by saying blue that that's on me. It would be amazing.
- [45:26]
Courtney Smith
Yeah. When we get to 7 and 8, I'm going to talk about the opportunity is really sort of acknowledging and taking responsibility for the impact of disruption on others. Which is not the same as saying, I regret it or I shouldn't have done it. But it is about saying, I see the impact it has on you and I'm here to be here with you. And if I made a mistake, I want to say that and hold you in your discomfort and pain.
- [45:55]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Great.
- [46:04]
Courtney Smith
Okay, so 5 and 5 is going to. Also the upside of type 5 is they are going like 4 and 5 are going to say, slow down. And there is some wisdom in that. Wisdom of think through consequences, check in with your heart, be present. And so that the impulsivity and the reactivity of this, the impulsivity or the energy and the activation does not become too impulsive and reactive. It actually becomes its high side. Okay, now we get to type six, the loyal skeptic. This is me. And the loyal skeptic is all about understanding the interdependence of the world, that everything that I do over here has a consequence for others and very much wanting to not cause harm. And so this type is loyal to the human enterprise, but really defines loyalty in like, in a limiting way of I can't let anything bad happen then on my watch. And so it creates a lot of downside, protection, catastrophizing, overly responsible, dutiful behaviors that stem from this very sincere desire to be a force of good in this world. You're laughing.
- [47:28]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Well, I think, you know, I do know you and some of my closest are Sixes. And I think it's just, just from my heart so hard to watch people that want nothing bad to happen because in my life that just seems to be life itself is good and bad is always happening well.
- [47:51]
Courtney Smith
And you know, one edge that I've played and I continue to play is can I see that bad things happen when I overly fixate on bad things happening, that it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Because I forget my own agency, I forget possibility, I forget the ability to, you know, Type six is fundamentally scared in the face of the unknown. And the unknown does contain all the bad things that could happen, but it also contains all that could go well. And in my failure to attend to that part of the unknown, I actually caused the very harm that I'm fearing. So for the loyal skeptic, I am looking for sources of stability and safety and certainty so that I can feel confident about my choices. And that's not, as I hear you, that's not going to be something that the world provides for us this year. In fact, it's going to be a disrupted year for that. So the opportunity for type 6 is what would it be like to have an internal source of support and stability that exists independent of circumstance, that I can be in the face of profound disruption, profound change, profound uncertainty, and still feel inside myself a sense of stability and security. And that actually is the opportunity there is to actually internally source stability that actually can truly be trusted rather than outsourcing it to the ways of the world or how the world is the energy type six will bring that will help 2026 Fire Horse, you mentioned it earlier, is what is this energy in service of? Because type 6 understands the profound interdependence and it's like sees, you know, the butterfly effect I think was probably invented by a type 6. And so asking that question is this. I can have fire inside of me and pay attention to what is this in service of at the same time? And so that's a useful question. If you're not a type 6, you could ask yourself over and over again. Type 7 is the enthusiast. So this is your type. The enthusiast is all about an ever roaming mind with infinite possibility, infinite creativity, infinite imagination. And it feels so good to have a sense of freedom and profound joy in my ability to make things up. Make believe, make believe. Because so many good things have happened in this world because of that. So this is like Elon Musk, a lot of Richard Branson, but even like Lucille Ball, like, like a lot of comedians, because it's such a positive type. So here we already spoke about the downside of the type. The fire horse energy. Type 7. Like you could. The one shadow side of 7 is mania, which is I get addicted to the energy of disruption for disruption's sake, rather than really grounding in will this satisfy me? Will this satisfy others? Is this really what wants to happen? So this type can get tricked from thinking boredom is a reason to act. I'm bored. Let's just shake things up. And so that's really the opportunity for this type is to channel this energy, but not have it be about my own sort of agitation and restlessness. Have it come from someplace else.
- [51:45]
Gwyneth Paltrow
And just being this type with a bit of eight myself, I would say moving from the addiction to novelty to a sense of true rhythm with others and with the earth.
- [51:59]
Courtney Smith
Yeah. And when I get to type nine, to me, that's the real. And that's interesting that. Right. Your partner is a type 9. And that is what type 9 would offer to type 7 in this kind of situation. Is that profound, grounded in the body. Can you feel a sense of, like, be present now with the sensations in your body and from welcoming all of that now what wants to happen? So type 8 is called the challenger. Type 8. Lots of highs and lows of a type 8. Donald Trump is a type 8, but so is Serena Williams. So is Martin Luther King Jr. FDR is a type 8 as well. So it really is about this powerful, activated drive, like force, like aliveness. And then you can sort of see in the high and low side of certain type 8 personalities, is that drive and life force used for good or for ill? And so here I was talking about this type can get overly controlling. That's their shadow side of, like my way. And so really the opportunity here is to, as I said, honor that other types have equal fire inside themselves. And what does it mean to create where all, all voices help us determine where we're going? Type 9 is the peacemaker. Type 9, the peacemaker is all about. This is the type that you go to, to like feel calm and relaxed and grounded. All is well. It's like the place where you just do a, like a big exhale with this person. Many of us can feel this energy when we're walking in nature. And that is the high side, that beautiful type nines, peacemakers, kind of that energy they bring to the world. Walt Disney Barack Obama, a lot of presidents who like when we needed profound peace, come on the scene, Abraham Lincoln, a lot of movie stars, because we find them appealing and we want to move toward them because it is such a calm energy. This type, however, can be profoundly bogged down by inertia and mistaking peace for comfort or comfort thinking I need comfort in order to feel peace. And so really on the table for this type is understanding that a long term peace sometimes requires disruption and trusting the moment to moment experience of what is. Rather than insisting on a preference for smooth glass calm. You know, everyone's agreeable with one another. So this energy also, I think is going to be activating for a type 9, because this type is one of the slowest to act because of that sort of desire to kind of keep the status quo, keep the peace. Were you going to say something?
- [55:21]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Well, I know in myself and in others that peacemaking compulsion can lead to suppressed resentments and then long term erosion of true intimacy, right?
- [55:36]
Courtney Smith
Because what ends up happening here? And this is why the question of disruption, disruption within and disruption without. One of the things this time type does is in order to keep the peace when they themselves feeling, feel a stirring inside themselves of dysregulation, they've got to figure out what to do about that. And one of their go to strategies is to mildly disassociate or suppress, overlook, kind of dampen, like kind of buffer it. And so what's happening there is. And this is why here's the opportunity for this type, right? Which is all of that mild disassociation and suppressing has left. I have an atrophied muscle for what lights me up inside myself. And that is the muscle that's being asked to be activated in 2026. So this is a type that actually the fire horse would be like, specifically translated through what is bothering me, what's bugging me, what's irritating me, what if I really got to complain, I would go after. And can I use that energy of irritation or annoyance or being bothered or I'm judgy, can I use that, stick with that energy until I alchemize it into. There's actually a want or a desire inside me that I've been ignoring that wants to come forward. And so anger is the way through for this type to finding what actually is the fire inside me that needs tending to, that needs more attention that actually the world needs me to bring for a larger higher vibration piece.
- [57:27]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Excellent. And I'm aware of our time. And so I want to start to summarize and give a lot of inspiration for all the listeners, because I do believe, as you do, that the disruption that we're each going to experience is a gateway, a door to higher consciousness and more embodied wisdom and love. Like, this is not just a show of a year coming up. It's what's happening for each of us so that we can become more active participants in our life. What would you say, as a global.
- [58:08]
Courtney Smith
Yeah, I mean, when I have experienced disruption in my own life, you know, it is the, like the feeling, and I know you did this this past summer. It's the feeling of a trapeze act, right, Where I let go of one swing and there's a moment in the middle where I'm holding on to nothing and I've got to reach for that other swing. And so the disruption is about me letting go, which is going to feel scary and I'm going to be leaping, not knowing what's going to come next, but trusting that that next level will be there.
- [58:47]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Yes. And you remind me of the secret to the entire year going well for all of us.
- [58:54]
Courtney Smith
Tell me.
- [58:55]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Well, it. It's really clear to me. Use this next period of time before February and that Aries energy comes to really invest in your sacred crew, the people in your life who have your back, your ride and die friends or family or mentors. If you're not in a coaching or therapeutic situation and you need to be, get in one, our common good will be realized by each of us knowing we belong to each other. So if there's any of us right now that have been obsessed with work to the point of ignoring other people in our life, or we've just been in a cutoff or no contact that could use a remedy. This is the time to gather. Gather the people that get you and know you and love you and invest. Because this is like going on a big ride and you want your people by your side. You don't want to be out there in the wilderness, just you galloping. You want to feel like you're held by the whole crew.
- [60:07]
Courtney Smith
Well, I was. So I'm struck by the idea that the horse is the animal because there is this galloping energy right, in a horse. But horses run in herds, right? Horses do not act as soul agents. And so what does it mean to have that capacity, but at the same time be attuning to part of working with resting into your herd, your tribe.
- [60:38]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Beautifully said. So again, I want to thank Goop, the whole Goop crew. You know, I know you all know I've known Gwyneth. I love Gwyneth. I believe in her leadership and her incredible courage to be herself. It's a good time for each of us to be thankful to our own journey, wherever it's brought us at this moment, and know that 2026, you've got the key. Listen to this again and again and then use all the energies and a big basket of opportunity for yourself. And one other ending note I'd like to say besides thank you, Courtney, I love you, I believe in you, I learned from you is that if you aren't where you want to be, you don't have enough help and find those people or those things or those creatures or nature itself or spirit to resource yourself. Because there's nothing that cannot be upgraded if you get the right help.
- [61:49]
Courtney Smith
Yeah, what I hear in that is this is a time of profound change and transformation. And we understand during change and transformation there is discomfort. And so even as there's such opportunity and we're speaking to the high side here, there are many parts of ourselves that are going to feel profoundly uncomfortable. And what does it mean to take care of ourselves in a very profound way, not so that we stagnate, but so that we nourish and take in profoundly attend to ourselves even as we change and evolve? So I hear that very clearly in what you just said is acknowledge this will be a year where things get shaken up for you and what are the things you can do to resource yourself so that you can tolerate discomfort and then be able to use the high side of this energy for your own growth and evolution.
- [62:56]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Well said. Thank you all and I hope that we both hear from you in 2026.
- [63:10]
Podcast Host/Producer
Thanks for tuning in. This has been a presentation of Cadence 13 Studios. I hope you'll listen, follow rate and review all of our episodes, which are available for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey or wherever you get your podcasts.