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A
Thanks for tuning in to today's podcast, made possible by our friends at Cartier. I've always loved the way that jewelry can tell a story across time. With Cartier, that story often begins with the panther. First appearing as a spotted motif on a watch in 1914, it's become one of the maison's most endured symbols. It was reimagined in 1935 by Cartier's visionary creative director, Jeanne Toussaint, who brought the panther to life in three dimensions for the first time. Bold, magnetic, powerful, she turned it into something iconic. The newest Panthere de Cartier creations continue that lineage. Two panthers, face to face, sculptural yet flexible channel, an alluring intensity. They feel timeless and yet alive in the present moment. That's the magic of Cartier. The craftsmanship, the history, and the way these pieces invite you to imagine your own story within them. Shop the Latest creations on Cartier.com When I travel, whether it's for work or just to take a break, I love staying in an Airbnb. I love the charm and how every place feels so different from a hotel. It gives me a sense of feeling grounded wherever I am, whether it's a weekend away in the country or filming somewhere far from home. There's something about waking up in a real home with a kitchen to make coffee in and a living room to spread out in. And whenever I'm in an Airbnb, I find myself thinking about the person whose home it is while I'm making it mine for a few days. Maybe they're off on their own adventure, or simply opening their doors for someone else to enjoy the space they love. That's what I love about Airbnb. You already have the space. Why not let it offer something to someone else and let it work for you? Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much@airbnb.com host.
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When you are pioneering anything or introducing new ideas.
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A
To the culture, you get criticized. You do? Yeah, did you hear about that? I didn't find the one. I found someone I respected and we.
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B
Made it the one. In the sort of longing kind of.
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A
View of love, people understand each other as if by magic.
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Nothing in itself is addictive on one hand. On the other hand, everything could be addictive if there's an emptiness in that person that needs to be filled.
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A
I now know that nobody changes until they change their energy. And when you change your energy, you change your life. I'm Gwyneth Paltrow. This is the GOOP podcast, bringing together thought leaders Culture changers, creatives, founders and CEOs, scientists, doctors, healers and seekers. Here to start conversations. Because simply asking questions and listening has the power to change the way we see the world. Here we go. Welcome to the GOOP Podcast. I'm Gwyneth Paltrow, and today I'm sitting down with one of the most beloved television matriarchs of the Upper east side, an icon of style, resilience and grace. From reinvention to the beauty of allowing yourself to not be okay. We talk about how she's found strength and gratitude through life's hardest transitions. Kelly Rutherford. Hi.
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B
Hi.
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A
Thanks so much for joining.
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B
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
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A
So you're in New York for Fashion Week.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Which is fitting because you're a fashion icon. You sort of. It's funny how now I think we're all supposed to be like these multi hyphenate things.
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B
Yes.
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A
But I want to start with the fashion piece because I'm a fashion lover and admirer.
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B
Icon.
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A
I don't know about that, but so, you know, the sort of art of expressing yourself sartorially, I really relate to.
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B
Okay.
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A
And I had this. I have a makeup artist I work with who, you know, she. I was like, I, I don't do makeup and I, I don't know how to do it. And she always comes with makeup, and she's like, that's how I express myself. And I was like, that's so interesting. And she's like, well, you express yourself through clothing. And I had never really thought about that.
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B
So, aesthetics.
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A
Tell me about your relationship to fashion and how you started to express yourself through clothing. Or did you grow up loving it or what was that? How did that start?
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B
Yeah, my mom was a model, so when I was growing up, and she was very, very chic and her friends, super chic, like old school chic, you know. And so I think I always loved her style. And then I loved magazines. I used to make vision boards and collages, and I just loved putting images together, whether it was from home or places or clothes or, you know, just. I think that's part of acting, too, is you're building these worlds that you want to live in. You know, you're kind of creating these, and when you're young, you're thinking, well, this is, you know, you don't know. So you're creating worlds that you want to live in. And I think so that's.
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A
That's how it started, I think at a young age. Like at 15. Were you.
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B
Yeah, like as a Teenager?
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A
Yeah. And you were in Kentucky at this point?
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B
No, I was in California, living on Balboa Island. Oh.
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A
For some reason. Were you from Kentucky?
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B
I was born in Kentucky.
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A
Okay.
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B
But we moved when I was a baby.
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A
So did. Was California kind of part of your style?
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B
Yeah, I think so. I think I've always leaned a bit more east coast in terms of my style. But I love. I mean, growing up in California and, you know, kind of a beach place. Yes, you have a little bit of that, too. Yeah, that naturalness.
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A
So did I. Cause I went back and forth as a kid between Santa Monica and New York City, and so I think I always kind of danced between. Between the two.
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B
Yeah, it's a perfect balance.
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A
Yeah, it is a good balance. So you started acting when you were how old?
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B
I moved to New York when I was 17.
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A
Okay.
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B
To study acting.
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A
From LA?
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B
Yeah.
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A
Is it right that you started in a soap opera?
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B
No, I started on. Well, yeah, well, my first thing I did was a commercial with Matt LeBlanc.
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A
Oh, wow.
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B
Called Mother's Cookies Ice cream.
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A
Fantastic.
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B
And then I did like a Johnson and Johnson commercial. So they kind of started doing that and then. Yeah. And then Loving.
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A
Yes.
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B
With Luke Perry. Right, that's right. Was my first. Yeah.
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A
So. Which was a sign of things to come.
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B
Exactly, exactly.
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A
And so you were working in New York doing commercials, and then soaps are in New York too, right?
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B
Yeah, I just was, you know, supporting myself, so I was acting and. And going on auditions and I was doing a little modeling, commercials, you know, whatever.
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A
I was doing it, making it happen.
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B
Yeah. So I was in New York for about two years. Then I got homesick. And also my teacher at that time, you know, said, you know, I said, should I stay and do theater? And he was like, no, you're young, you're a woman. Go to LA and start working. You can always come back and do theater. Which I thought was really interesting advice.
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A
Strike while the iron's hot.
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B
Yeah, so that's what I did.
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A
And then. So you were on Melrose Place, which was a hugely iconic show. What was it like to kind of step into that world when it was established and, like, how was the cast?
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B
And it was so fun because it was already really successful when I joined. So it was a really cool thing. Yeah, it was super exciting. Marcia Cross and I were already friends before, so it was really fun to work with her. And. Yeah, it was just. It was such an exciting time. You know, we did, I think, 30 something episodes a season, so we did these double ups where we do two episodes at one time, so it was like boot camp. But it was good boot camp. It was really fun.
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A
Are you still friends with anyone from the show? Yeah.
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B
Lisa, Rinna. I see sometimes. And Marcia, I see sometimes, you know, here and there.
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A
The 90s. I think it was a kind of a special time. I mean, maybe I'm just nostalgic, but, you know, when I look back and I think about the shows that were made and the clothes, and I always think of, like, that's.
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B
I think of you, honestly.
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A
Oh, my goodness.
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B
Amazing.
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A
So, you know, I lived in England for a long time, and when I was there, I missed, like, a whole bunch of TV shows because.
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B
Which probably isn't a bad thing. Well, you never know.
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A
It sort of left me in a cultural vacuum because there were all these shows that came out, and at the time, it would always premiere a year later.
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B
Right.
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A
In England.
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B
Okay.
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A
So people would be like, oh, have you seen, you know, lost in 24? And I was like, no, I don't know what you're talking about. And Gossip Girl was one of those shows.
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B
Okay.
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A
So I've never seen Gossip Girl.
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B
Okay.
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A
And I think also because it was purportedly based on, like, Spence, the school that I.
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B
Where you went. That's right.
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A
And kind of the girls that I grew up with. So is that. Is that. Is that right? That it was kind of.
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B
Oh, I'd be so interested to see what you think of it, especially. Cause that's your world. That's the world you grew up in.
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A
Yeah. Like, apparently it was, you know, kids hanging out on the steps of the Met. Like, that's what we used to do.
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B
Dressed really cute and like. Yeah, no, I know. Cause I lived on the Upper east side the whole time we were filming, and I remember seeing all the kids coming in and out of the schools. How was it growing up on the Upper east side?
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A
I mean, it was great. I mean, it was, you know, New York was a different place then.
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B
Very different.
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A
It was. There were real kind of neighbor. It was like pre Full gentrification of, you know, everything kind of below the. Or, you know, park.
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B
What park.
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A
Starting. And, you know, where the meat packing was, like, cows hanging.
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B
It was still me. Yeah, it was.
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A
You know, and there was a lot of. It was a little bit more, I would say, gritty then, but it was very alive. And I think all the way through the 90s. You know, what I loved about it then, which I think it misses now, is that in those days, all the kids who were coming here to try to do whatever, you know, live their New York dream, could afford to live in Manhattan. So it was this incredible mix of artists and dreamers and people and, you know, it was like, and all the, even the finance kids, like, we were all kind of in it together and could afford to be in New York City or share apartments.
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B
Yeah, yeah.
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A
And I don't think that's the case now. And I think it changes the tenor of a place for sure.
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B
Yeah, I want to bring the artist back.
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A
Yeah, that's true.
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B
Seriously.
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A
But you live in Monaco now, right?
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B
I live between, yeah. Monaco and the U.S. okay. My, my family's still here. I'm still here. But I, I, I mean, I've been going there for a very long time, but, you know, kind of loosely based there for a few years because my children's father was a resident of Monaco.
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A
Okay.
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B
So that's how I ended up starting to go there.
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A
We're not going to go too heavily into this, but just from the perspective, obviously there was, you know, in the news over the past, you had this custody situation, which when I was researching, you know, I, you feel like your heart is ripped out of your body. Like as a mother, just reading how it feels, what you went through, I, I can't imagine how you survived that. How did you kind of build that internal fortitude to get through it and how did you keep your perspective?
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B
I don't think I always did. But like anything, I think that is a challenge that you're un, let's say unprofessional, prepared for, or you've never had before. Right. You, you, you just navigate it the best you can and you learn along the way. You make mistakes. You, you don't know how to navigate it. So every day you get up and, and do the best, and some days you navigate it well and some days you don't. You know, I think it's a process of, like most things, it's focus and, you know, when you can get past. It's kind of like the world today, we're bombarded with so much information. It's like, how do you even focus? How do you go within yourself and get quiet enough and take the time to prioritize what needs your attention? And so that was a big process for me was how to, how to focus on what was important to me during a time that was so crazy, when there were so many other things going on around it.
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A
Right.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And how, what is like if there's like searing pain, you know, like being separated from your children, how, how Would you sort of get through the day on set? Did you have tools? Did you?
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B
I was so thankful that I had to be on set, to be honest, because it was such a good distraction. I mean, otherwise, I don't know what I would have done. Honestly. I think it was. It was a blessing in a way, because I had to focus. I had to show up. I mean, you know what that's like. It doesn't matter if you have pneumonia, if you're going through a divorce. Doesn't matter what's going on in your life. You have to show up and. And, you know, so, yeah, it was actually, I was thankful and everyone was so incredibly supportive. And I think, you know this as an actress that, you know, you, you. So many things in life happen, and, you know, whether it's when we're young or when we're older, we're going through divorce, you, you know, lose somebody in your life. It doesn't, you know, and it's like, how do you heal? How do you deal with these things? You just deal with it day by day. Then you do the best you can. And also you learn, you know, you learn about yourself. You learn deeply. Yeah. About your choices. You learn about, you know, what. How the world is a little bit more maybe in ways that you were naive about the world.
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A
I've always loved the way that jewelry can tell a story across time. With Cartier, that story often begins with the panther. First appearing as a spotted motif on a watch in 1914, it's become one of the maison's most endured symbols. It was reimagined in 1935 by Cartier's visionary creative director, Jeanne Toussaint, who brought the panther to life in three dimensions for the first time. Bold, magnetic, powerful, she turned it into something iconic. The newest Panthere de Cartier creations continue that lineage. Two panthers, face to face, sculptural yet flexible channel. An alluring intensity. They feel timeless and yet alive in the present moment. That's the magic of Cartier. The craftsmanship, the history, and the way these pieces invite you to imagine your own story within them. Shop the latest Pantere creations on Cartier.com. i've always believed that what we put on our bodies matters just as much as what we put in them. And that includes our bedding. We spend hours in bed every night. And Koiuchi makes the most beautiful organic sheets that support a healthy, restorative sleep. Their relaxed linen sheet set is crafted from French flax that's sustainably grown and naturally breathable. It's Soft, airy, and somehow gets even better with every wash. The linen regulates temperature beautifully. Cool when it's warm, cozy when it's not. So your bed hits peak comfort year round. As leaders in organic bedding since 1991, everything Koyuchi makes is designed with care for both people and the planet. Free from toxic chemicals and microplastics. It's what conscious luxury should feel like. Effortless, thoughtful, and incredibly well made. And they're offering 15% off your first order. Just go to koyuchi.com that's C-O-Y-U C-H-I.com I when my. My father died kind of suddenly when I was 30 and about two weeks later I was on the set of a film and luckily I was playing Sylvia Plath. So.
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B
Oh my God, perfect.
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A
My depression definitely aided me in my work, but if I had had to do something where I wasn't letting myself be completely swallowed in pain, there's just no way I could have. I don't think I could have done it. Like, I. I think the. Using the art to sort of get me through, and I think that that's something that I've done. I think a lot in my life is like, we all have go through shit and pain and trauma of our own kinds. And like, that was the thing about being an artist. I mean, I do it. I barely do it now, but about being an actor, that I think was really healthy for me. It was sort of like to transmute the human experience and my own pain and sort of like mix it around in there, you know, like in a centrifuge and then like have it come out in part.
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B
It's like an alchemy. Yeah, yeah, it really is. I think it's so important going forward in our lives to the role, you realize the role of an artist. And we need this kind of renaissance. I think the world needs. Needs a renaissance right now of, you know, I mean, the soul and art and expression and ways to express this. I just did the forward on a book called how to Cry. And when she first sent it to me, I was like, what? I was like, I don't know. I don't know if I'm really the person for this. And then I read it and it was really a lot about breath work, and it was about really going within and allowing yourself to feel. Because so much of the day we like, we have to show up for work, we have to show up for our kids, we have to show up, you know, in society in a certain way. And so it's, you know, but it is important for our health and well being to be able to sit and have a good cry, you know, I mean, I remember the 90s. We kind of could, I don't know, maybe then I felt like it was okay, it was still okay to kind of sit in the bathtub with a cigarette and totally like have a good cry or like whatever. It was like healthy. It was normal.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So I, you know, anyway, I think it's important that we remember that we're human and remember our humanity, you know.
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A
Do you think that that's changed over the course of the past years? Because, you know, we've become so presentational as a society and.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Like we're supposed to be all these things on social media and it's sort of divorcing us from our feelings.
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B
Yeah, I mean, I think we all feel like. I think a lot of it's all the labels, you know, I think I always think of, of just being labeless, you know, if there are no labels, you know, your identity is not connected to all these things. Who are you and, and what are you here to do? And that's, I think a lot today is, is always. But you know, like, you, you're. You've sort of broken down all those walls of, of how people see an actress or, or somebody who grew up in the business or, you know, you're just like. And you know, I know you've dealt with a lot sometimes of people saying things, you know, publicly, like, because they, I think we all like structure and what's comfortable and when people are doing things that are not comfortable, you know, but the whole idea is to, to be limitless and infinite. And if you look at nature, you look at the sky, you look at the ocean, it's from what we know, it's quite vast. So, you know, I think our consciousness is too. So.
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A
Yeah, yeah, I think that's an, a really interesting point around, you know, that axis of like structure and yet limitlessness and how. I think that that's a really interesting point, you know. Cause we do, I think, need structure to feel safe and to feel like we build, we build structure and like our purpose dovetails into our structure and you know, our routines and you know, make, make us feel like, you know, safe. They're safe, we attract. Yeah, but then, sure, I think to not have to define yourself at the same time is. Sounds like a really interesting practice.
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B
Yeah. I don't know, I think it helps us just get in touch with who we really are.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Aside from all those things, you know.
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A
Who are you really?
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B
Exactly? Who's asking? Yeah. Right. But, yeah, I think it just. It liberates us a bit, you know, and it keeps us from having to just live up to this one thing or do this one dance our whole life. Right. Because we're here to do many things, you know, and teachers come in many forms, you know, people. We learn in different ways from different people, from the good and the bad. Right.
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A
Yeah. What are the ways in which you feel you learn your lessons most. Most easily.
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B
I look at my part in them and I sort of say, okay, if I. If I'm not blaming and I'm not the victim, which, you know, it's nice to have a little pity party first and get it out and then back to crying in the back. Let's get back to work here and say, you know, how did I set this up? Or how did my upbringing or how do my thoughts and. And how. Where I'm living contribute? And then it helps, you know, going forward.
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A
Right, so accountability.
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B
Yeah, exactly.
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A
Yeah. I think it's absolutely critical, pivotal to have accountability and also very, very hard. Right. Is this like this. I think in our culture right now, like, real vulnerability is hard and like that invulnerability and accountability are like they hold each other's hands.
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B
Well, it's like you said, I believe it's the structure you're talking about, you know, of. It's accountability and. And. And all of that is the structure. You're. Then you can be more liberated and free.
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A
Yeah.
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B
You know, in terms of your expression.
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A
Yeah. So. So in all. So, like, when hardships happen to you, do you go straight to, what is my part in this? Like, are you.
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B
No, I mean, I think you have to feel everything, you know, I think you have to have a good cry. You have to feel it and you can, you know, whether you write it out, it's like, you know, just get it out. Right. I mean, I love the Artist's Way for that, you know, that Julia Cameron book, because the morning pages of just getting stuff out, you know, we carry so many things around to do that in my 20s. Right. I just got my son the book. It's so cool. It's great.
- [23:20]
A
I read that book when I was probably, like, 22, and I used to wake up every morning and do that.
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B
Such a good one. And Shakti Gawain's the Creative Visualist Visualization, another really good one from, like, years around that same time. It's about visualizing, creating. It's Kind of what all these people are talking about in terms of how we. How we create worlds, you know, how about you? How do you do it? You do so much and you're so centered.
- [23:49]
A
Oh, my gosh. Not always, but I try to just do one thing at a time. Sometimes I get very overwhelmed, but less easily now. Like, I used to get overwhelmed more quickly, but I still struggle when. Because I'm doing so much, I struggle if there's a lot of friction and all the things that are trying to get done.
- [24:14]
B
Yeah.
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A
But I. I think I have a great sort of ambition to really understand as much as I can about myself and why I'm here and about other people. Like, I have such a deep curiosity about how other people work and what parts of them I can see myself in. And so I think that was part of my acting, and I think it's part of what we do at GOOP as well. It's like a pushing forward into what. What's next, what's coming around the corner. And. Yeah, I'm not sure how I do it all. All the time.
- [24:52]
B
It's purpose. Sounds like it's purpose.
- [24:55]
A
It's purpose. Which I think I'm still trying to articulate exactly what my purpose is. You know, I think maybe sometimes I think I won't know until I'm on my deathbed, you know, do you have a sense of purpose, do you think now do you know what your purpose is?
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B
It's interesting because something you just said makes so much sense to me, which is. Which is why we do what we do. Trying to understand why we do what we do. Right.
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A
That's absolutely.
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B
I think that's what you're. And that's definitely, I think, what draws us to acting in that whole world of, you know, you. If you're. If you study humanity. I think as a kid I studied people, I would sit and watch them. And why did they make that choice? Why are they in that relationship? Why are they wearing that outfit? Why do they talk like that? Why do they. You know, there's just all these questions about humanity. Humanity that. And if you're sensitive and you're aware, you know, so. But I think sometimes the purpose is staying in our heart. I think it's like keeping love in your heart is a purpose in its own way. Right. Just staying there. Because there's so many things that. And even in business or even in. You know what I mean, as a parent and. And all of these aspects.
- [26:12]
A
Yeah. So, I don't know, hard to do all day, every Day.
- [26:15]
B
No, you can't. I mean, you're not supposed to do everything all the same all day. I think it's. We're in an interactive universe, and, you know, it's constantly, you know, depending on what we're creating as well.
- [26:28]
A
Yeah. How do you do that? Like, if there's, like, acute acrimony or, you know, like, if you're, you know, I don't know, your ex or, you know, like, how. What's the trick to keeping love in your heart?
- [26:47]
B
I think it's just. It's really key. It's just the focus. It's. It's really about staying, you know, focused on the goal. Like, for me, with my kids, it was like, how do I have healthy kids through this? How do I do that? And I don't know. I mean, I. You know, I've apologized many times for losing it and being, like, a mess, you know, but I think the difference is I apologize and I say, look, I'm a mess, and this is why. And I love you, and I'm here. I'm showing up, even if I'm a mess. And I think that's. They respect that. And I think they. They know you're human. They know you're not some robot, you know, you're. And I. Hopefully it helps them realize how to deal with things. It shows them. Okay. This is how my parents are navigating the world. So I'm learning from just like, you know, if you have parents that, you know, I have friends. Their parents smoked a lot when they were growing up. Smoke cigarettes, and so they hate smoking, you know, so it can work either way. Right. So they learn from us the. What to do the good and the bad. Right.
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A
Yeah.
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B
But just I think to show up with all of your. The good and the bad and that to realize that we aren't all going to have it together all the time.
- [27:54]
A
Yeah. And make the repair.
- [27:56]
B
But we're. We're working on it. You're showing up. You're still learning. I think Gossip Girl, which you haven't seen and I've only seen a part of because I had two kids and a divorce through it. But I still haven't seen the whole thing. But, you know, on this show, it. What I love and I think what people respond to is that the parents didn't have it all together.
- [28:17]
A
Right. You know, exactly.
- [28:18]
B
Which I think was important. And that they apolog. They were like, we're figuring it out too still, you know.
- [28:24]
A
Right.
- [28:25]
B
Yeah, we're all still figuring it out.
- [28:27]
A
Yes. And I think the real injury comes when you're out of integrity. Right. Meaning you're pretending that everything's okay or you're pretending that you're not hurt or angry or whatever the case may be. And. But it's hard. Like, I remember in my divorce, too, like, the impulse to wanna keep it all together and, you know, be strong and.
- [28:47]
B
Yeah.
- [28:48]
A
You know, and.
- [28:49]
B
And it's public.
- [28:50]
A
So it's public.
- [28:51]
B
Adds another level to it, you know, when you're having to.
- [28:54]
A
It really does add another level. And people are watching you to see, you know, and so you're trying to. And sometimes I wonder, like, you know, in. In those times, like, am I really letting myself process all of this? Because I'm trying to hold everything together. It's hard to do both at the same time.
- [29:09]
B
Yeah. It comes out later. You just have a good cry walking down Madison with your coffee. Like, I don't know what's going on, but it's coming. Here we go. No, it does.
- [29:18]
A
Yeah, absolutely.
- [29:19]
B
It's normal. You know, I think also we put it in perspective, and we have. If you focus on a lot of what gets you through, it's. And I'm, you know, this. And is just, like, focusing on the good.
- [29:31]
A
Yeah.
- [29:32]
B
Even no matter how crazy it is, you know, focusing on.
- [29:35]
A
Yeah. And in gratitude.
- [29:36]
B
And that's it. Yeah.
- [29:38]
A
Yeah, absolutely.
- [29:39]
B
Because we are so blessed, you know, and even though we go through these. These challenges where we realize how blessed we are at the same time, you know.
- [29:54]
A
Okay, so let's talk about your Instagram, because my team is very obsessed with it.
- [29:59]
B
Oh, that's so nice.
- [30:00]
A
You're a major style icon. So tell me about these elevator selfies of your. And how that started and how they became so iconic.
- [30:10]
B
I don't know. It was really out of convenience. It's because.
- [30:13]
A
Where's the elevator? First of all?
- [30:15]
B
It's in Monaco.
- [30:15]
A
Okay.
- [30:16]
B
It's in Monaco. And it's like a little light box. You know, most elevators just aren't. You know, I started doing it because I started to work on this platform with this girl, helping her find all these cool artisan brands from all over the world. And it was during COVID So it was like, you know, I had the time, and so I just kind of researched, like, 3,000 brands and just sort of helped her do this thing. And then out of that came this, like, awareness of, wow, there's so many beautiful brands that I had never heard of all over the world. And that's how it started. And then I just started Posting. I was like, oh, I'll just post this and do this and support and whatever. And that's how it kind of evolved into something just fun. It was just so fun.
- [30:58]
A
I mean, fashion is fun. It's like fun.
- [31:01]
B
It is really. And it's a. It's a form of art, you know, for sure it is.
- [31:05]
A
So do you style it yourself or just.
- [31:07]
B
Yeah, yeah, no, I do everything myself. I don't even have a stylist, but yeah, I do. I. I do everything. For better or worse.
- [31:15]
A
No, it's great. You don't have a stylist at all. Not even for a red carpet thing?
- [31:20]
B
I've never. I, you know. No, I'm a publicist. I like, literally my. My family's my crew, you know, I'm just. The dogs aren't here because they're in wanting. But. Yeah, so.
- [31:30]
A
So tell me a little bit about that European life, like when you're there.
- [31:34]
B
Well, for me it's super quiet, which I like. I mean, in the summer it's crazy, but it's crazy everywhere in Europe. But no, it's just really quiet. I just, you know, I really love home. Well, you like the home queen. You love, Obviously love home. You're taking it to a whole nother level.
- [31:50]
A
But now I've taken it to an extreme where like I never leave my home. And it's actually weird.
- [31:55]
B
I know, but it's nice. But I think that's normal. That's kind of how I am.
- [31:59]
A
Do you like exploring? Do you like. Is travel part of your inspiration?
- [32:03]
B
I'm traveling quite a bit. I mean, mostly for work, but I've always loved to travel. But now I'm dreaming of like a farmhouse somewhere. With me too. Making honey and whatever. The bees make the honey, but helping the bees make whatever.
- [32:16]
A
I'm on this one group chat with like this amazing group of people who really like are sort of picking up the baton of like non toxic and you know, environmental toxins and microplastics. And they're like, let's all just buy a piece of land and, you know, live a commune. Yeah, I think so.
- [32:33]
B
Because I think we're a bit granola. Not granola, but we're a bit like that side where you want things to be natural and you want things to be clean and healthy and all that. And. And then there's also the love of beauty, of most beautiful and quality.
- [32:50]
A
Yeah. And beautiful expression.
- [32:52]
B
I love everything. I love nature, I love art, I love people. I love family. I love all of it.
- [32:59]
A
That's so optimistic, creative. I hate everyone and everything now.
- [33:02]
B
Well, I do, too. Sometimes. I have those days where I just need to put my dark glasses on and be like, okay, nobody talk. You know? Of course. We all have that.
- [33:12]
A
Yeah. I think I've been in a bit of a cynical phase lately, you know.
- [33:15]
B
Like, well, how can you not be a little bit cynical right now? I mean, it's a bit. It. It takes. It takes a lot of focus. Yeah. You know, to focus on the good and.
- [33:25]
A
Yeah. Yeah, it's a. It's a test, you know, to stay in the present and stay hopeful.
- [33:32]
B
Yeah.
- [33:33]
A
Yeah, it's a bit of a. I.
- [33:35]
B
Look at it as. Like, nothing is as it seems right now. So we just have to kind of go, okay, you know, and focus on the things that we love, our family and art and. Because I think we. That that's the thing, too. I find now with, like, Instagram and all these things is you're not kind of going out and seeing things in the same way. I've just been making myself read books. I'm like, you've got to read books.
- [33:57]
A
Yeah.
- [33:57]
B
You got to put the phone down.
- [33:58]
A
Yeah, it does.
- [33:59]
B
It takes.
- [34:00]
A
It takes.
- [34:01]
B
Do you love art? Do you collect art?
- [34:02]
A
I do. I was actually going to be an art history major in college. My dad was a fine art major, and when he was in college, before, he went on to make TV shows, and so he took me to every museum and gallery and.
- [34:15]
B
What a gift.
- [34:16]
A
Yeah. So I. It's, like, in my blood, and it's how it's sort of. It's a. It's medicinal for me to go and see art. It helps me process everything that's happening and when culture seems incomprehensible. I love how artists sort of help us chew through, like, the current feelings and express, you know, how it comes out and how they express. So, yeah.
- [34:39]
B
Gets us through.
- [34:40]
A
Yeah. Okay. Okay. Rapid fire. Here we go.
- [34:44]
B
Okay.
- [34:44]
A
Okay. What is your approach to beauty?
- [34:47]
B
Okay. I. I've never loved to wear makeup. Okay. My mother dragged me to the makeup counter when I was, like, 18 and was like, maybe you should. You know, I was a bit of a tomboy.
- [34:56]
A
Yeah, me too. So I still am.
- [34:59]
B
Yeah. Like, I really like my daughter. This morning I was coming here, and she's like, you might want to put a. Like, just some mascara on. I'm like, it's Gwen. She's, like, natural like me. It's fine. So, yeah. So I tend to. So natural with the beauty.
- [35:12]
A
I really like that simple coffee order, cappuccino regular milk.
- [35:18]
B
Yes.
- [35:18]
A
I love it. Best piece of beauty advice that you've been given.
- [35:23]
B
Don't think about it too much.
- [35:25]
A
Something that never goes out of style.
- [35:29]
B
Love.
- [35:31]
A
Style icon.
- [35:32]
B
God, that's. There's so many. You're one of my style icons. And Catherine Deneuve and Jean Moreau. All those women.
- [35:39]
A
Me, too.
- [35:40]
B
Like the old school. Like, beautiful, elegant.
- [35:42]
A
Absolutely.
- [35:43]
B
Women.
- [35:43]
A
Favorite part of being a mother.
- [35:47]
B
All of it. I really love being a mom. Like, I couldn't wait to be a mom.
- [35:51]
A
Yeah.
- [35:52]
B
I felt like everything else was just like, I gotta do all this so that I can be a mom.
- [35:57]
A
This is. This one's always hard for me. But the quote, you live by a sentiment, a mantra.
- [36:03]
B
Yeah, I think it is. I really do believe it is about keeping love in your heart and. And knowing that we're. We are kind of unlimited. We just don't. There's so much more.
- [36:16]
A
Yeah.
- [36:16]
B
Than we're.
- [36:19]
A
No. But that will stay with me. You know, today, what you said around limitlessness and. Because I think.
- [36:26]
B
Yeah.
- [36:27]
A
We're always trying to squeeze ourselves into some kind of paradigm or, like, what we're. You know, And I really like this idea of, like, what would it feel like if we sort of remove those boundaries around our.
- [36:39]
B
Because we all have preconceived ideas about what's possible.
- [36:42]
A
Yeah.
- [36:42]
B
You know, so if we get out of that space a little and leave room for what could be possible, we know, even better things happen, you know, So I know if I get out of my own way, things work much better and better. Even better things come in, you know?
- [37:00]
A
Good rule to live by.
- [37:01]
B
Yeah.
- [37:02]
A
Well, thank you so much for coming on.
- [37:04]
B
Thank you so much for asking.
- [37:05]
A
It was so lovely to meet you. And not you, too. Thanks for tuning in. This has been a presentation of Cadence 13 Studios. I hope you'll listen, follow, rate and review all of our episodes, which are available for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts.