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- [00:00]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Thank you for tuning in to the Goop podcast. Today's episode is made possible by Polestar. Those who know me know my car is my mobile sanctuary. It's one of the few places in the day that can feel really calm and restorative, so the space matters. And that's why I love Polestar 3. It's an all electric SUV with a kind of thoughtful innovation that I'm always drawn to. Things like massage seats, immersive 3D surround sound, and Google Gemini, which can answer questions, set reminders, and just make life feel a little more streamlined when I'm on the go. The technology is seamlessly integrated and complements the minimalist design. Everything feels intentional, clean and beautifully considered. Whether I'm heading to a meeting or just taking a moment for myself in the car, Polestar 3 makes the drive feel like a sanctuary. Learn more and book your test drive@polestar.com
- [01:00]
Kara Swisher
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- [01:59]
Gwyneth Paltrow
new ideas to the culture, you get criticized. You do? Yeah, did you hear about that?
- [02:05]
Kara Swisher
I didn't find the one.
- [02:07]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I found someone I respected and we
- [02:09]
Kara Swisher
made it the one. In the sort of longing kind of
- [02:11]
Gwyneth Paltrow
view of love, people understand each other as if by magic.
- [02:15]
Kara Swisher
Nothing in itself is addictive on the one hand. On the other hand, everything could be addictive if there's an emptiness in that person that needs to be filled.
- [02:23]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I now know that nobody changes until they change their energy. And when you change your energy, you change your life. I'm Gwyneth Paltrow. This is the GOOP Podcast, bringing together thought leaders, culture changers, creatives, founders and CEOs, scientists, doctors, healers and seekers here to start conversations. Because simply asking questions and listening has the power to change the way we see the world. Here we go. Hello and welcome to the GOOP Podcast. I'm Gwyneth Paltrow. Today's guest is Kara Swisher. Kara is a tech journalist and has been covering Silicon Valley for decades. She's interviewed tech giants from Steve Jobs to Elon Musk and is not afraid to hold truth to power. In fact, one of the first questions I asked Kara is how is she so comfortable with confrontation? We get into a lot today, from the increasing presence of AI in the film and television industry to how Silicon Valley and the people who run it have evolved over the years. And of course, Kara's new series on cnn, Kara Swisher Wants to Live Forever, where she investigates the myths and facts coming out of the booming longevity industry. So let's get to my conversation with Kara Swisher. Can I ask you something that I personally want to know for my own career development?
- [03:50]
Kara Swisher
Sure.
- [03:51]
Gwyneth Paltrow
How are you able to be so direct? Confrontational. Is that fair with people? You. Not confrontational.
- [04:02]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, you can use that word.
- [04:03]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Well, I don't mean it in like, I don't care. Yeah, I mean it in.
- [04:07]
Kara Swisher
Yeah.
- [04:07]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Like I'm. I sort of, like, sometimes I want to ask somebody a question and then I go to, like, this is going to be painful for them or uncomfortable. And so I don't like, how do you do that?
- [04:18]
Kara Swisher
Because I don't think it's. I don't think it's rude to be clear with someone. Right. And I sometimes I don't like the people that say, I don't mean to be a bitch, but. Because that's always the rude question. Right? But I think when you ask someone something directly, really smart people appreciate it. Right? And I do think women do have an issue with being a good girl, right?
- [04:37]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Fully be a good girl.
- [04:39]
Kara Swisher
Like, be polite. But they confuse it with being. Saying what they want. Like, same thing with money with women. Like when I used to manage people, all the men overestimated. And I hate to be tropey, but it's true. Like, this one guy's like, I really think I need a raise. And I said, I'm actually thinking of firing you, actually. Interesting that we have such different viewpoints about your career. And he's like, excuse me. I'm like, I've given you evaluation after evaluation that I'm thinking of firing you. And if you don't understand what I'm saying, it's really hard. And then the woman was doing really well and just I offered a raise and she was like, oh, great. And I'm like, no, no, you need to ask for more because you deserve it and you should know. And it was really interesting, but I just find. Never hurts me to do that. And you should do that more. And they won't expect it from some people. Right. But it's not rude to ask a direct question.
- [05:30]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Yeah, No. I think it's more just like handling my discomfort or the perceived.
- [05:35]
Kara Swisher
So that's my right. So you don't want to make. But why are you. What are you making them discomforted about when you ask a direct question?
- [05:40]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I think to your point around having been socialized to be a good girl.
- [05:46]
Kara Swisher
Right.
- [05:46]
Gwyneth Paltrow
The idea that I could ask a question that would make somebody feel like they have to defend themselves in some way. And I guess because I also have been the brunt of that for so long.
- [05:58]
Kara Swisher
Sure. And we talked about that when you came to code.
- [06:00]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Right. And I think people do it to me for, like, clickbait, like, if they're not really trying to get to an answer that they think they're gonna learn something from or is gonna enlighten them, they're thinking about the click. So I think that's why as well.
- [06:16]
Kara Swisher
But you're not doing that, so why do you put back. So there's a difference between rude and clear or direct. And I think people play into it. I mean, just today, it was really interesting. I don't know if you saw Reese Witherspoon talked about AI in a very fine way. Like, we need to learn about this because women are 25% the usage. And she. She said it. And then everyone. All these people, especially when piled on, how dare you do this? And so I posted. I'm like, I'm not sure what to tell you, but she's telling you something that's actually accurate. And I've been a huge critic of AI and we need to regulate it, and AI slop, stuck, sucks, and et cetera. And I said, but she's telling you women need to learn about it because it's here and you're pretending it's not here and you're dragging her for it. And she and I had had a discussion about this. Cause I did a morning show thing, and she's like, every time I say something, I better not say anything. I was like, no, you're right. Like, why are you not articulate? Now she won't say anything because she got dragged. Well, she didn't say what you say. I was like, oh, so you're, like, gonna police the things she says? Like, are you kidding me? She's never gonna be able to talk about it. And so I was sort of perplexed as to why she got. She got shit for saying something I say all the time, right? Which is like, why? Well, she was too peppy. I was like, oh, really? Did she not smile enough? Like, what are you talking about? And I'm wary. And then they come at me. I was like, all right, you want to fucking throw down with me? Like, she's right. And so anyways, it's the same thing.
- [07:49]
Gwyneth Paltrow
She is right. And I think, though, that this is the other thing, too. Certain women are expected to present in a certain way. And I think that's why I've messed people up so much along the way, because I was this thing, and then I evolved into something else. And I think, you know, Reese is so brilliant. She works across so many different platforms, and she's beautiful and she's wealthy and she's blonde. And that's what you said.
- [08:16]
Kara Swisher
How dare she can't say because she's wealthy and blonde. It was like, really? I'm not really clear why, you know, trolley short, ugly people can say it. Like, I'm not sure what your message here is to someone like this. And what's interesting is one of the reasons she won't do an interview, she goes, I was like, you're hiding your intelligence. Like, you. You really downplay. You're a crafty lady. Like, from what I can tell, she's brilliant. She's brilliant. And I was like, you are hiding. You were pushing down.
- [08:43]
Gwyneth Paltrow
But why would she. You know what I mean? If it's like, if she's gonna slightly stick her neck out to say something as innocuous as like, hey, guys, this train has left the station. We better be relatively prepared. Like, we better educate ourselves on something. And she gets dragged for it.
- [09:00]
Kara Swisher
Because you have to break through that. You have to keep going. See, to me, you're not gonna win.
- [09:04]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I mean, I do, but it's like, so.
- [09:07]
Kara Swisher
And also, what do you care about what random. Random people say?
- [09:11]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I've come to not care that much.
- [09:12]
Kara Swisher
Right, right. I mean, I have Elon Musk dragging me, so that's kind of fun a little bit.
- [09:17]
Gwyneth Paltrow
No.
- [09:18]
Kara Swisher
Yes, it is. Yes, it is. Yes. I love being called a cunt every day online. It's great. It's a good thing.
- [09:23]
Gwyneth Paltrow
How did this fe with Elon and you start?
- [09:26]
Kara Swisher
Well, actually, I talked to him a lot. You know, I interviewed him more than anybody. I think maybe you even might have been at one of the events where we did him. You know, he's a complex person. Let's begin with that. Used to Be much more human. And now something's happened. And then when you get to be that rich, I mean, you know, even you understand that, like, people agree with you violently. Like, oh, nice job. Like, they never give adequate feedback. And so he started to get irritated by people who had feedback, like, normal, critical feedback. And so we had been talking about, after he bought Twitter, what, what he should do. And I had started some really interesting, innovative live events on Twitter by myself. And I had gotten a sponsor. And he wrote me, he's like, well, how did you do this? And I was like, well, this is a really interesting platform. You could really compete with YouTube. There's going to be videos someday. We attracted five, six thousand people when I did it. Spun it up in an hour, which is a really nice number. He goes, we should get together and talk about it. I was like, yeah, I'd be happy to, because I think it's really important to create new media organizations for media people and opportunities for modernization. And then there was a story about. I had been at the French embassy and a guy came up to me from Ukrainian, as it turned out, and he said, can you talk to Elon Musk about geofencing Crimea? I was like, what? He was part of the Ukraine Defense Ministry. And he said, elon is geofencing Crimea. Can you talk to him? And I was like, what. Why is he doing. Why does. Why is he making battlefield decisions? And so I said, I'm not the one to talk to him. You need to talk to our government about this. But okay. And there was a story about what happened here is he gave people Starlink. And it's. This is going to be such a. Like a ridiculous thing to have gotten a fight over. But there was a story in the Washington Post about working with him, and I felt he should have been paid for free Starlink to Ukraine. I thought it was an incredibly generous thing to do. But he also shouldn't have purview over battlefield decisions because he's a citizen, right? Like, this is not his thing. And so one of the quotes in the Washington Post was, elon's going to Elon. He's going to do whatever he wants. And I said, well, one, I think he should pay. Two, and Elon's going to. Elon, he's going to do what he wants, but American citizens shouldn't. A private citizen shouldn't be making these decisions for the US Government, in my opinion. That's just. And his brother even was like, no good deed goes unpunished. And I said, yeah, it's true. And then I didn't hear from for a while. And then I looked. I never look at my email. And he'd sent me an email, you're an asshole for tweeting that. And I was like, what are you talking about? I'm defending you. Like, I don't know what you're talking about, but I think you shouldn't have that decision making power. I'm sorry, I don't feel like that's like, utmost. And he. And he said, I'm never going to speak. He had done this before once when he was mad about someone, a friend, something Walt Mossberg tweeted. And I was like, do I look like Walt? You know, and again, same thing. And he's like, you're an asshole. Da, da, da. And that was it. That was it. That was it. And then he started attacking when Paul Pelosi got attacked by that crazy QAnon person and almost got killed. He started posting that it was a gay conspiracy, that he was his lover. And I was like, this is fucking heinous. Like, how dare you? And then he kept doing it with white supremacist stuff, Andrew Tate stuff. And I was like, what is wrong with you? And you had seen bits of it during COVID when he told me that only 15 people were gonna die. And I was like, maybe not. Like, I feel like a million is what usually happens during a plague, historically. And then he argued about when the government was closing his factories. And I said, look, we don't know what's happening. Maybe we should opt for safety over. And he got all furious about that. And his mother got mad at me, and it was just weird. Wow, they're so weird and tetchy. Like, nothing I said was, you look fat, which you did, but that's fine. I didn't do that. Other people did. That was Ari Emanuel's picture, not mine. And I never made a comment about his looks. I don't know these people.
- [13:35]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Yeah, well, it's interesting to me too, because in a way, you're sort of an instrument of their rise.
- [13:42]
Kara Swisher
Yes, I am 100%.
- [13:44]
Gwyneth Paltrow
You are the person. Well, you are among the top few people. In a very early fashion, identify these people right through, I imagine, the work they're doing. And you platform them, you amplify them, you give them prominence, voice, et cetera. Right, so how does that then sit with you?
- [14:06]
Kara Swisher
I don't know. I don't see it as a PR thing. It's like I covered them. Like I was the first person who covered a lot Like Jeff Bezos when he was poor, which he's not now, apparently. Really? Yeah. When you can rent Venice, that really helps. So it's a little tone deaf, but in any case, I don't really care. I don't really. It's not my business. So yeah, they were all nobodies, really. And I was covering industry most people disdained. Right. The media people are like, oh, this isn't gonna like, we're the top dogs here. The media companies, whether it was Time Warren, Time Warner, whatever it happened to be. And I was like, I don't know. This Internet thing seems like it could affect everything. And I think one of the things they appreciated and why I called my book not just Burn Book, but a tech love story was Cause I was like, this is gonna change everything from newspapers to. So I really was a real early understander of it. And then who was going to be successful and who wasn't was really.
- [15:04]
Gwyneth Paltrow
And how were you able to discern who was going to be successful?
- [15:06]
Kara Swisher
I wasn't always. I thought. Initially I thought ebay was ridiculous and it was in the end. But initially I was like, I don't get it. A lot of stuff I didn't get, but I certainly. When I saw Google, I was like, oh, I see, you know, I see this. Or when he, When Elon first started talking about Starlink, I remember him telling me about it. I was like, you're 100% right. Like about these low earth satellites. Or when he started talking about Tesla and stuff like that, it was like, obviously this is where history is going. And I think one of the problems is they don't have lack of self awareness, that once they did one thing, they thought they were good at everything and they were experts on everything. So now like, do I really care what Elon Musk thinks about dei? I do not. And nor should I care about. I like experts talking about it. So initially it was very innocent in a lot of ways. But then it quickly became about stealing your privacy, stealing your content, stealing ip. There were warning signals. Like I was walking through Google once with Larry Page and they had a room full of dark televisions on the wall everywhere, hundreds of televisions. And I'm like, what are you doing? Because they always had weird things. Like all of a sudden you'd see like a fish pond or some. They would have something weird happening. You've been to Google? Have you been to Google's?
- [16:20]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Yeah, once. I think our. We have a mutual acquaintance, my friend Pat Keane. Do you know?
- [16:25]
Kara Swisher
Yes, of course. Yeah.
- [16:26]
Gwyneth Paltrow
So Pat, when he was at Google, he took me.
- [16:28]
Kara Swisher
Sure, it's cool. It was cool. Here we're making kombucha, and then over here we're doing this. And so it was always something where there's be like a. There was one time there was a Quonset hut they had in the office.
- [16:39]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Pardon?
- [16:40]
Kara Swisher
They wanted to test out office things. A Quonset hut.
- [16:42]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Okay.
- [16:43]
Kara Swisher
They thought it was interesting. It was always like that. It was, you know, suddenly there'd be a horse. Like, all right, well, I feel like
- [16:49]
Gwyneth Paltrow
this whole wave of founders were all about, like, being iconoclastic.
- [16:53]
Kara Swisher
Yes. Sometimes performatively. So, like, we're gonna. We want to build a chairlift in San Francisco to help people up the hills. I was like, that seems stupid.
- [17:02]
Gwyneth Paltrow
That's not really.
- [17:03]
Kara Swisher
But both Yavin News and I, at the time he was mayor, we were like, they in front of us. And we were like, maybe not like, possibly no, like, but they were. So we were walking through Go Google. And. And he had all these television sets. And I was like, what are you doing? And he goes, we're taping television. Like, he talks like that. And I was like, all of. He's like, all of television. And I was like, oh, for what? And he goes, for search, because we're learning how to search video and audio. And I was like, huh, interesting. Did you get permission from the copyright holders of all those television shows? Why do I need that? I said, because you're stealing. Like, if you do it, no one else will. Same thing with books. They did the same. And I was like, cause there's copyright. Everyone should have all the information. I was like, but you didn't pay for it. They did. And at the time, he was like, what are you talking about? Information needs to be free. I said, but it isn't free. Like, all these studios paid for this stuff and they own it. And there's all these owners and well, they're keeping it from the people. And I'm like, yeah, but now you're taking it and selling it back to the people. Anyway, it was at the time that
- [18:06]
Gwyneth Paltrow
seemed to be an early issue, right?
- [18:09]
Kara Swisher
Music, I mean, you know this, right? I mean, all those Napster fights.
- [18:14]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Yeah, I remember it well. And still to this day, I mean, that business model is just completely.
- [18:20]
Kara Swisher
But they're doing it now, like right now with content. Like, they scrape my content.
- [18:24]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I'm sure they've scraped your bots on goop all the time.
- [18:28]
Kara Swisher
All the time. Not just that. You yourself, there's enough material to make a Bot of you, like, here's Gwyneth, Gwyneth's AI, essentially.
- [18:36]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Then can I fucking retire?
- [18:37]
Kara Swisher
No, they're not gonna give you the money. But they do it all the time. They Grammarly made a whole Kara Swisher advice thing without Garris Wisher's opinion about it. Is that so? I threatened to. I mean, I was like, I'm gonna sue you fuckers. Like, what are you doing? But they can do that. And then in the worst way you as a parent understand this they're doing. And it's bad for our health too, by the way, is AI bots. And I've been interviewing the parents of kids who commit suicide for years, for two years now. And saying this is dangerous. They are acting like therapists and friends and a human being having these interactions would be arrested for what these people are doing. But they don't care. They just put it out for 13 year olds like, and don't think they have responsibility for their shoddy shitty products.
- [19:21]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Right. And what's the regulatory and None. Right. And, and it's sort of. They're. They're paying the bill now. Your, your favorite person, Mark Zuckerberg, and the impact that he's had on.
- [19:31]
Kara Swisher
Right. They've amplified and weaponized almost everything and then for their, their shareholder benefit. And that to me is like, great, I love innovation, but excuse me, you don't pay the costs the rest of us have to pay.
- [19:43]
Gwyneth Paltrow
How do you get here as a culture? I mean, obviously there's so much revenue and profit driving this whole thing at the heart, that's like at the heart of it. But like, how do you think we got to this place in culture where sort of nothing matters and now all that matters is these kind of super rich white dudes who are breaking rules, setting rules, you know, seemingly like not caring so much about the downstream impact on everything.
- [20:10]
Kara Swisher
Mental health culture, they don't think they're responsible for the. Like, I had an famous interview with Zuckerberg where we talked about antisemitism and I was like, what you're doing? At one point he said, Holocaust deniers don't mean to lie. And I was like, they do. That's the definition. But then I let him talk because I need you to understand his mentality, which was, I am not responsible for everything downstream. Like it doesn't matter. But if he was a chemical person dumping shit into the river, he gets sued. I mean, initially none of those people got sued. And it takes about 25 years because I don't think how do we get here? I think we have an idolatry of innovators, an idolatry of wealth, and if you're wealthy, you must be smarter. When they got all manner of shortcuts and the innovations that they took advantage of were paid by the American public. By the way, the Internet was invented by the United States government, not them. And it's great to be innovative and make these things. And this rocket stuff, I'm so impressed by what SpaceX is doing. We can argue about the valuation of it, but it's still astonishing. And at the same time, why do they get. Why does a small homogeneous group of people get to decide for the rest of us?
- [21:19]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Yeah, I'm fascinated by it because I feel like there's something so endemic to being an American about this idea of
- [21:26]
Kara Swisher
like, yes, of course, go west, young man.
- [21:28]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Right. And this idea that anybody can do it from whatever socioeconomic background and that sort of.
- [21:34]
Kara Swisher
True, Right.
- [21:36]
Gwyneth Paltrow
But that we can. We put this hierarchy. It's like we're so hungry for a hierarchy in order to make sense of our lives or something like that. And we imbue these guys, like with this extraordinary, I don't know, like Godlike.
- [21:51]
Kara Swisher
Godlike, Right, right. But they're not. That's the problem is, is that when I was writing for the New York Times, I was just doing Colins cause I wanted everyone to hear it. Everyone's like, why did you just do it for the New York Times? I'm like, cause people, they pay attention to it. And therefore I was doing it at my website and it got impact, but it didn't have. So the first story I did was talking about, it was called the Expensive Education of Mark Zuckerberg. And it was about our cost, not his. Right. He's learning on the job, but he controls social, he controls communications, and he's really not very smart about these big societal issues. Actually quite not smart how? Because he's, he's not capable of deciding how to enforce free speech and what hate speech is. It should come down to. Our elected officials should figure it out. Right. Our judges, our lawyers, our citizens.
- [22:38]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I mean, it's in the Constitution.
- [22:40]
Kara Swisher
Right, Exactly. But it's one of the things that drove me crazy. I felt like, did you read the First Amendment? Because it says the government shall make no law, not you. You can control your products so that everybody maybe that you have to pull back on some stuff, but you make it safe. Just like beef. There is bad beef or bad food, but people have to pay well. They don't have to pay enough for it. But anyway, one of the things that I really got struck by in 2019, I wrote a column where I said Trump was getting really dangerous online, I thought. And I had studied the Holocaust, I'd studied all manner of propaganda in college, and I was like, what he's doing is very dangerous to let him go on. And I get the whole thing. He's the president, and so whatever he says, we're not used to whatever demented diarrhea he pumps out every day, which is getting worse. Cause Grandpa's losing it a little bit. That freeze it is straight with me. It's diarrhea. It's what it is. And we're like, hmm, what does this diarrhea mean? I'm like, he and crazy and racist. Like, why are we. Every time someone goes to me, can you believe what he said? I go, yes, I do. Yes, I do. Grandpa's crazy. Grandpa's racist, crazy and adult. So, yeah, icon and also misogynist sexual harasser. Like, we got. We got all the information we need on this fella. And it's always like, I can't believe it. That's what drives me crazy about the last thing.
- [24:04]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Well, I think what people are saying is, you know, this. No matter how real, imagined, performative or not, whatever it is, like, what. Whatever is happening, it is never not unbelievable.
- [24:18]
Kara Swisher
Which is good to say. Can you believe it?
- [24:20]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Like that the strat. Like, whatever his strategy is, it's impossible to figure it out and know what it is and sort of be able to rest your laurels on, oh, it's this or that.
- [24:31]
Kara Swisher
The same thing happens around political discourse was. I wrote a column where I said, and I'm not gonna tell you the date, I wrote this, I wrote a column saying Trump is on par to start. What if he loses the election? I'm gonna give you a hypothetical. If he loses the election, he's going to tweet out to his followers or whatever platform he happens to be on, truthout, to do something about it in a physical way, stop the votes from being counted. He will do something in the real world. And so online, hate will jump offline. I said, and there's gonna be an insurrection. And I used the word insurrection, which was crazy. And I said, what would you do? I posed this question to all these leaders, and they're like, well, we take them off the platform. I'm like, or we do this, we do that. And I said. And they said, what would you do? I said, I wouldn't have let it get this Bad to begin with, because this is where it was headed very clearly. I wrote it in 2019, which was crazy. In the fall of. I was like, this is exactly where it's headed. Because you could see the movement. And at the time, I got so much pushback from Facebook and Twitter. They were like, how dare you say we are insurrectionists? And I said, no, you're handmaidens to sedition is what you are, and very willing ones, because you make a lot of money. And so I was like, this is exactly what's gonna happen. It's so easy to see, and I hope it doesn't, but it's not that hard to figure it out. And so that's the kind of stuff is they just allow enormous amount of misinformation and disinformation to go around. They benefit from it. And then they are so rich now. So rich, crazy rich. Our legislators are unable to do any legislation anywhere in the country, so states try to do it on some level. And the same thing is happening now around AI. And like I said, these parents, these lawsuits that are happening, they're not going to get out of it. Eventually they will pay the price, but boy, are they good at like right now with AI. Trump is a coin operated president who was standing in the front row of that inaugural. It wasn't the elected officials, it was Jeff Bezos, it was Sundar Pichai from Google, it was Mark Zuckerberg, all their various wives, and they were there. That's who was sitting. Sergey Brin was in the back, Sam Alton was there. Tim Cook was there. Why were they there? Because he's a coin operator. At least we understand Trump on some level. He's a corrupt coin operated president, so. Not that I like that, but I get him.
- [27:07]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I've been thinking about this lately. What could your home actually be doing for you while you're not even in it for anyone with upcoming travel, your place could just be sitting there empty when you could be listing it on Airbnb. And that's kind of the shift, right? Whether you're away for a long weekend, a work trip, or a proper vacation, your space doesn't have to just sit unused. It can work for you in a really low lift way. And that extra income can help offset the cost of your trip. If you live in a city that draws people in, concerts, tournaments, festivals, you already know there's a steady flow of visitors looking for somewhere that feels a bit more personal than a hotel. Listing your space on Airbnb lets you meet that demand in a really Natural way, giving people a place that actually feels like home and a more grounded way to experience your city. So it starts to feel like a smarter, more intentional way to travel. Knowing your home is working for you while you're away. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much@airbnb.com host. Movement becomes transformative when it stops feeling like an obligation and becomes a ritual. It feels like something grounding, something expansive, something that brings your body and mind back into alignment. That philosophy is what makes Peloton's Cross Training Tread plus so compelling. It's an ecosystem designed to help you find ease in the effort. With Peloton iq, every workout becomes responsive and intuitive. Personalized plans evolve over time. Real time insights guide each session and built in form feedback creates a sense of ease within effort. The experience moves fluidly, running to strength, cardio to recovery with a simple turn of the screen. And through it all, world class instructors offer both structure and inspiration, meeting each moment with clarity and intention. Because true progress isn't about perfection. It's about staying connected to your body and to what's possible. Discover the cross training TREAD plus powered by Peloton IQ@onepalaton.com. Can we talk about Sam Altman for a second?
- [29:26]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, sure.
- [29:27]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Because obviously he's, he's a. He's an interesting figure complex. What is your take on Sam Altman?
- [29:35]
Kara Swisher
I met him when he was 19, when he had a company called Looped. 19 or 20, maybe.
- [29:39]
Gwyneth Paltrow
See, this is what I'm saying. You meet all of these guys.
- [29:41]
Kara Swisher
Yeah.
- [29:42]
Gwyneth Paltrow
So early and you kind of get, you know, adjacencies in these.
- [29:46]
Kara Swisher
Or you understand them a little better. You saw them before in the before times. Often people are exactly the way rich. They're the same. They're jerks rich and they're jerks poor. Right. You know, it doesn't really matter. Some people evolve. Mark Cuban couldn't be a more wonderful person. Now, he's a great guy, nice guy, but he was kind of a frat bow jerk when I met him. I was like, yeah, we had a lot of fuck you checks back and forth. No, fuck you. No, fuck you.
- [30:11]
Gwyneth Paltrow
You seem like you have a lot of those.
- [30:12]
Kara Swisher
I do, but they end up being. I just had lunch with him. He's great. But he's doing all this stuff around prescription drugs. That is great. It's amazing, really amazing. Does he need to do this? Could he be on a boat in the south of France enjoying himself? Certainly.
- [30:26]
Gwyneth Paltrow
But some people are really motivated by solving problems and then I think it's a values thing. Right. It's like I recognize a problem or I recognize an injustice and they sort of throw their weight like a MacKenzie Scott.
- [30:41]
Kara Swisher
Right, right. Perfect example. And we'll talk about her later because she's been giving a lot of money health initiatives that are really important in the now for a lot of people versus themselves. And Sam is complicated. So he one of the few gay people. I mean out gay people. There's Tim Cook, him. So that's an interesting thing to take into mind. Cause it's very. It's not misogynist. It is misogynist. It's a different kind of misogyny. You know what I mean? It's kind of not as explicit. But, you know, it's also, I think,
- [31:12]
Gwyneth Paltrow
you know, to be.
- [31:13]
Kara Swisher
There's homophobia, there's stuff like that. So in that time it was different for sure. And so I was always interested in him. And you know, he also had a sort of a reputation for being manipulative, which I'm. You saw the Ronan Farrow piece, which I thought was pretty fair. Although Sam didn't.
- [31:29]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I didn't read it actually.
- [31:30]
Kara Swisher
But yeah, it's an interesting piece. It's complicated. And one of the things he has is he's sort of. He's an aims to please person. At the same time, he can seem disingenuous at the same. Which I'm like, I'm sorry, get in line. Like I'm. You want to stack ranks. Disingenuous. I'm putting Peter Thiel up near the top. Marc Andreessen and Musk. So I don't know which is a terrible way to live. So he was really complicated. I like Sam, I actually do. At the same time, I recognize what he's doing. He's a real hustler and he's not as concerned with safety and less so he and I had a back and forth in this docu series about that, about these kids, about the AI chatbots. I'm like, I think you are. I think someone should go to jail here versus or take responsibility or at least be sued so these parents get some.
- [32:21]
Gwyneth Paltrow
You said that to his face.
- [32:22]
Kara Swisher
Yes, that's what I'm talking about. So, you know, he's complicated. And I think Ronan, I think very fairly depicted the uneasiness around him, you know, in terms of who are these leaders who are running companies that are gonna have such massive implications on our society. Now, we never knew the head of Lockheed or the head of whatever, but if you go back in history Henry Ford had, you know, great industrialist. The car. Thanks for the car. But huge anti Semite. He used his Ford dealerships to put out this Dearborn newspaper he put out that was full of anti Jewish, anti black, anti women, whatever. He was just a miserable son of a bitch. Same thing. Like he had a lot of impact during that time period because of his crazy.
- [33:12]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Yeah. And imagine with so much less distribution, like everybody had.
- [33:16]
Kara Swisher
Exactly. And so these people are making. So any. So Sam is complicated, I would say. And I think I might predict he might not be head of OpenAI. There's a lot of.
- [33:26]
Gwyneth Paltrow
That's what I was going to ask you next.
- [33:27]
Kara Swisher
Yes, I think so. I think there's some real questions. The Journal just had a piece about his investments. You know, I don't make any money from OpenAI. I go, oh, stop it. You're going to. There are benefits for you. He has other investments. They're a little bit opaque for people. And if you're a public company, you can't be this opaque. And so he's going to have to answer for that. That and a lot of his critics can be a little high handed. Like they're all making money. Like, I left OpenAI so I could be pure and do safety. And I just took $2 billion from Andreessen Horowitz. I'm like, oh, got it, okay. You're helping the people.
- [34:00]
Gwyneth Paltrow
But isn't there something. I don't know, for me, I feel like he's sort of the fall guy for AI. Like he seems like he can never win in the public forum, you know, whichever.
- [34:11]
Kara Swisher
He said a lot of stupid things. Like he's like, do you see how much. Not that one. He said. I mean, yes, of course I've said dumb things.
- [34:18]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I'm sure you've all said dumb.
- [34:19]
Kara Swisher
But I didn't say, you know, having children takes a lot of energy. So why are we worried about AI? I was like, didn't you just had a baby? First of all, he just had a baby, which I'm very happy for him. But I was like, that's really not something you should. Like that one. Or Zuckerberg saying, Holocaust deniers don't mean to lie. If you're in those positions of authority, you might want to think carefully about how you put stuff out. And so I think.
- [34:42]
Gwyneth Paltrow
But at the same time, like, and I'm not defending anybody. Yes, not. People are human. People learn on the job, especially in a completely new sector, people sort of discover who they are and what their principles are around it and where Their boundaries are.
- [34:58]
Kara Swisher
Except they have no price. Mark Zuckerberg can't be fired. His children can't be fired. You can be fired. I can be fired.
- [35:05]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I can be fired.
- [35:06]
Kara Swisher
Well, actually, I work for myself, so I'm not gonna ever be fired. But whatever. They don't have any accountability, so there's no ability to do anything about it. And one of the things that I've noticed among all the te moguls is they can't shut up about anything. And now it's extending to other people, like Bill Ackman, who's a famous hedge fund person. Right.
- [35:27]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Well, they're empowered by their own success and lauding.
- [35:30]
Kara Swisher
And why am I listening to him on something that he doesn't know anything about? And so they really. You know, you'll see it with all of them. They're sort of like, I might as well tell you about this and that. But the fact of the matter is, they do have their hooks into all our legislators. They have PACs. These money going to these PACs.
- [35:49]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I disagree with that. Just structurally, I don't.
- [35:52]
Kara Swisher
No, we've got to get rid of Citizens United. But not just that. These pack structures, like, it doesn't always work. Look, Elon tried to affect an election in Wisconsin. I think it was Wisconsin. And he lost. He spent 25 million because he's incredibly unattractive, spokesperson for the people. Right.
- [36:08]
Gwyneth Paltrow
You don't like the jumping.
- [36:09]
Kara Swisher
No, that cheese hat did him in. When I saw the cheese hat, I was like, it's down. The people of Wisconsin do not like frolicking in their cheese hats. They like their cheese hats, but not on you, my friend. And so it's really. It's the lack of accountability. But I do think regular people, what they're trying to do is break us apart and show our differences versus our commonalities. The technology, it breaks us up. It is meant enragement equals engagement.
- [36:40]
Gwyneth Paltrow
It's true.
- [36:41]
Kara Swisher
You know, except that we have a lot in common. And people are starting to like, look, you have Marjorie Taylor Greene agreeing with me about what we need to do about chatbots or whatever. Because then you start to like. She was just. The other day, she was on Kaitlan Collins on CNN with Ro. Khanna and her were talking about the war and where they agree. And I literally texted Ro. And I was like, what the actual fuck is happening here? Like, what is happening?
- [37:12]
Gwyneth Paltrow
There was overlap. There was a.
- [37:15]
Kara Swisher
And I was like, where are we? And I was, like, kind of happy about that. Like, we're. Look, we're gonna disagree and she'll go back to some stupid trans things, she'll say, which she can't help herself. The rubber band always goes back to shape, right? On certain issues. Maybe she'll become enlightened about that.
- [37:30]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I don't know. I feel like that whole issue is such a, like, red herring. Oh, it's a red herring.
- [37:34]
Kara Swisher
There's like, I have interviewed so many. I've interviewed one guy who's like, this is the most important issue. I go, how many people?
- [37:41]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Please, how many people? But they know it riles people up.
- [37:44]
Kara Swisher
Yes, it does. And it certainly. Because it goes to fairness, I guess, on some level. But it's so stupid. It's such a. Like, this is what they're doing. They're doing this with the shiny objects and. But online, the shiny objects become super toxic. And it doesn't have to be online. It could be Fox News. Like, my mother called me about trans fencers recently and I was like, it's not an issue.
- [38:02]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Was she upset?
- [38:03]
Kara Swisher
Yes, it's terrible.
- [38:05]
Gwyneth Paltrow
You mean fencing? Like fencing?
- [38:07]
Kara Swisher
How many are there, Mom?
- [38:09]
Gwyneth Paltrow
None.
- [38:09]
Kara Swisher
Oh, okay. I think we can move along. And by the way, you're 92. It doesn't really matter for you, like,
- [38:14]
Gwyneth Paltrow
in the end, I just think it's interesting. Like, I always try to think of
- [38:17]
Kara Swisher
plague, of trans fencers. We must do something about it. Children's poverty. No, no, no. Transpensers. They're everywhere. Trans fencers.
- [38:27]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I just always try to think about, like, what is underneath something that becomes so motivating, like so urgent for people, you know? And is it, what is it? What is the fear underneath this sort of drummed up threat of trans people?
- [38:44]
Kara Swisher
I don't think it's actually there. Years ago I wrote a story which was really interesting. It was around celebrity stuff. So do you remember when Roseanne called Valerie Jarrett a terrible name? Terrible. She compared her to. Remember that? So she got drummed out justifiably, by the way. Cause she's crackers, I gotta say. And come on, don't know her. I'm just saying, watch her. Okay? Allegedly. Anyway, so she gets drummed out and then Sam Bee, who I love, she's terrific, said something about Ivanka, called her name, got in trouble. Same thing, probably shouldn't have done it.
- [39:20]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I don't like the name.
- [39:21]
Kara Swisher
Don't like it. Don't like it. Unless you're in Britain and then you can use it freely, whatever that particular word.
- [39:27]
Gwyneth Paltrow
You know what? Just, okay, don't love it.
- [39:29]
Kara Swisher
I get it. But I'm saying in Britain it's sort
- [39:30]
Gwyneth Paltrow
of like in Britain. It's less.
- [39:32]
Kara Swisher
Less.
- [39:32]
Gwyneth Paltrow
But like any name calling. It's so Jewish.
- [39:35]
Kara Swisher
Or at least do with a British accent. Anyway, so I'm just teasing. It's not great. So she got in trouble. So there was all this online thing, and I was like, this is a lot of online thing for something. I get it. But it was crazy. So I got this company that watches bots. These are these bots that create situation. What happened was these bots said, can you believe Roseanne Barr? How dare she? But then the same thing I come
- [39:57]
Gwyneth Paltrow
from in a British accent. Yeah, right, whatever.
- [39:58]
Kara Swisher
I'm doing what I think bots sound like, perfect. So this was a group, this was a bot. It was like, how dare she do it? But the same company was putting out stuff that said, she's right, it's true. Blah, blah, blah. So it was creating these fights and then humans got involved. But it was the bots who started it.
- [40:15]
Gwyneth Paltrow
The bots should be illegal.
- [40:16]
Kara Swisher
Exactly. And then the same company was on the CMB stuff. So it was the same company making the trouble. And then people like, it's attracted to an accident.
- [40:24]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Those people are the see you next.
- [40:27]
Kara Swisher
Yes, but it could be Iran, it could be Russia. It could be just companies just creating controversy. It could be political things. And so that we. We're human beings and so we're gonna be attracted to a traffic accident and immediately go into tribalness. And so that's. To me, it's like so selfish on their parts to not understand the deleterious impact they have on all of us.
- [40:51]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I think they understand. I think they're just like Milton Freeman. They just. Profit, profit, profit.
- [40:56]
Kara Swisher
Well, the first line of my book was, so it was capitalism after all. But what drives me crazy, I've never had a Hollywood person. And listen, I have lots of issues with Hollywood. Go, I'm here for the people, Kara. I'm here to help everyone through my. Some of them do it, but, you know, like, I'm here for the money. I'm selling the movie. I'm doing this same thing with, like, I've never heard a banker go, what I really want is all of us to get along. I just. I don't expect it from them. But the. But the tech people always had to, like, I'm a simple person. I'm here for the people I'm here for. How many times did I have a conversation with Mark Zuckerberg about, he's here for the community. And I was like, so why do you get. Why can't you be fired then? If you're here for the community and we're all making decisions, why do you get stock that allows you to make every decision?
- [41:40]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Have you talked to him?
- [41:41]
Kara Swisher
No, not. He doesn't talk to me.
- [41:43]
Gwyneth Paltrow
He doesn't talk to you?
- [41:44]
Kara Swisher
Not after the second. Two times we did interviews. One, he sweat, if you remember the sweating one, where he sweat and had to take his thing off. Not my fault. Not his fault.
- [41:54]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Did you make the room really hot?
- [41:55]
Kara Swisher
No, I did. Yes, I did. I did. I did everything. I gave him some chili peppers. No, he just had. He just had a panic attack. That's all that happened. Wow. But I tried to help him by taking off his coat. And then when he did the Holocaust thing, but I didn't say it, I actually tried to stop him. I was talking about Alex Jones. I was like, we shouldn't go to Holocaust.
- [42:13]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Right? Right, right.
- [42:14]
Kara Swisher
Cause you're wrong. Like, it's bad. And he did it himself. And also we treat them like children, like they're toddlers. Like, oh, what did he say? I'm like, he's really rich and he's really powerful. And we're treating them like, so what
- [42:26]
Gwyneth Paltrow
is the way forward through this stuff?
- [42:29]
Kara Swisher
I think some regulation, but not to quash innovation. Things naturally tend towards a monopoly. They tend. Then you have these. It's like company towns. How do we push innovation in this area where AI should be? There's a lot of cool innovations happening and how do we avail itself? It's like saying, you know what? Like, plain old telephone service was critical for economic development or the highway system. What stuff is critical for the future of everybody and what stuff? And where should they be taxed on that? Like, what if they had left telephone service just to the private companies? Do you know what would have happened? We wouldn't have had it. Like, only the rich would have it, not the poor. And so what is critical to everything? Like, same thing with healthcare, the whole thing. Like, why can only the rich benefit? And why do they get to make decisions? Like, I had a discussion a long time ago with Mark when he was giving money to the newer something. They were giving enormous amounts of money. And then they want kudos for their generosity, which I'm like, thanks. But really that's what the money's for. That's how you can assuage yourself. And he was like, well, I think it was generous. I was like, yeah, but why do you get to decide our priorities? Why don't we just tax you and let our elected, well, elected Officials don't know. I go, yeah, but they're elected. Like, I don't like Ted Cruz, but he was elected. Right. And so shouldn't he have more power over. I can't believe I'm saying this. I've said it several times on this term. But. But he should.
- [43:57]
Gwyneth Paltrow
No, I know, sorry.
- [43:58]
Kara Swisher
But he should. The Texas people of Texas picked him. You know, even Donald Trump should have more say. Although he's gone overboard. But he was elected.
- [44:08]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Okay, so that is a really good segue to talking about your show in terms of like how the wealthy people are sort of, you know, even in your telephone company example, what would have happened if it was stayed privatized. But before we get there, because I'm dying to talk to you about this TV show.
- [44:24]
Kara Swisher
Okay, okay.
- [44:24]
Gwyneth Paltrow
So right now it's an AI free for all. Like all the VCs. I have a small fund, like everybody's. We're AI this, we're AI that.
- [44:32]
Kara Swisher
Are you going Ben Affleck? I want one of those deals.
- [44:35]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I had that deal.
- [44:36]
Kara Swisher
Oh, you did?
- [44:37]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Oh, yeah.
- [44:37]
Kara Swisher
Oh, good.
- [44:38]
Gwyneth Paltrow
In 1990.
- [44:39]
Kara Swisher
Oh, right, yeah, you know, Yeah.
- [44:41]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I don't know. In the 90s, I had.
- [44:43]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, you were active. There were a couple of you that were on board early.
- [44:46]
Gwyneth Paltrow
No, not that kind. I mean, like.
- [44:48]
Kara Swisher
Oh, yeah. So you went out with them. I forgot. Hello. See, that's how much I pay attention.
- [44:53]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Me too.
- [44:54]
Kara Swisher
I forgot.
- [44:55]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Listen, it was like 30 years ago at this point. Okay, you're excused. But like, you know, and I. There's always. I think it's. Investing is so interesting and it's a whole other learning curve. Right. Because it's like, what are the ethics of this? And like, we invested in OpenAI very early, not very well, pretty early. And it's sort of like, okay, you know, and I still think the company has great legs and Sam could do the right thing. Like, I think he has a great opportunity. But who are the founders in AI right now that are not yet household names that you're super interested in?
- [45:29]
Kara Swisher
Well, you know, it's interesting because who is the Uber of this? Who is the, you know, who's going to be the AI for insurance? Who is the AI? I've noticed a lot of billboards. Oddly enough, there's a lot of Hollywood billboards, but suddenly there's the legal AI and Jude Law's face is right there. You were in that movie with him. You know, his face is there for legal AI.
- [45:50]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Oh, really?
- [45:50]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, yeah, it's on Sunset. Like, I know it's called Listen, I
- [45:54]
Gwyneth Paltrow
would buy anything that Jude Law sells.
- [45:55]
Kara Swisher
Right, exactly. I was like, obviously the expert on legal AI is Jude Law. But fine, whatever.
- [46:00]
Gwyneth Paltrow
It doesn't matter.
- [46:00]
Kara Swisher
It doesn't matter.
- [46:01]
Gwyneth Paltrow
He looks good, he's a, this is
- [46:03]
Kara Swisher
a rather large thing. But. So there's one for legal, there's one for.
- [46:07]
Gwyneth Paltrow
So you're saying if you're looking at AI as like infrastructure, what are the, what are the interesting companies built on top of that?
- [46:13]
Kara Swisher
Early Internet was Yahoo. You know, Google came along later, some of the search engines. But then there was all manner of business in each area. Right. Whether it was software, hardware, whatever it happens to be. So there's going to be a zillion
- [46:26]
Gwyneth Paltrow
companies and they'll fall away.
- [46:28]
Kara Swisher
They'll. Some of them will.
- [46:29]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Most of them will.
- [46:30]
Kara Swisher
Like there were a lot. There were like 400 railroads at one time and then there weren't. Right now we have shitty amp track like, yay, we win. But you know, that's the, that's really the problem is which ones are going to be it. And so if I were investing, I think who is the leader in legal, who is the leader in record keeping, who is the leader in accounting? Who is. It's going to be the boring ones and that's where the real money is going to be made. There will be one or two winners.
- [46:55]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Because I'm so.
- [46:56]
Kara Swisher
But do what, you know, if you're making investments, what do you, what do you, what's something you have made more efficient? Efficient using AI?
- [47:04]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I mean, I would say primarily the most fundamental thing is my bandwidth.
- [47:08]
Kara Swisher
Right.
- [47:08]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Like I have. I use granola to listen in on all my meetings. Like the, my, my enterprise AI is connected to everything. I get summaries, I can, it can look across my slack and tell me where there are bottlenecks on my team.
- [47:23]
Kara Swisher
Agentic is how you use it exactly. This terrible word they've made.
- [47:26]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Agentic.
- [47:27]
Kara Swisher
Agentic.
- [47:27]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Yeah, it's very, very. I mean, so. And I'm, I would say like I am, I engage with AI all the time and I find it incredibly useful.
- [47:39]
Kara Swisher
Right, but weren't you in the movie where they showed it off with, with the assistant that talked to him all the time?
- [47:45]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Yeah, think about that. Iron Man.
- [47:47]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, and Iron Man. Yeah, you were in that movie I saw. You looked really nice in the suit.
- [47:50]
Gwyneth Paltrow
But coming from you.
- [47:52]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. Well, it's always good to wear a metal suit that can kill people. But think about that character in the show. That's how it could be. Right. And I think if you look to science fiction you can see where things. Where you go, like just a wearable map. Like a wearable. Like 10,000 steps. What the fuck does that mean?
- [48:11]
Gwyneth Paltrow
What do you think about that?
- [48:12]
Kara Swisher
It doesn't mean anything right now, but with AI, you could go, what if something was in your ear, like you had an airpod or whatever it happened to be and you had like I use this example, you ate a donut. And instead of like saying 10,000 steps, like what does that mean? What is it? It's data without meaning. And it says, you know, you just ate that donut. What you really need to do is get up right now and go grab a cucumber and go for a walk.
- [48:35]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Use up that blood glucose.
- [48:37]
Kara Swisher
Right, exactly. Like, but do. Instead of monitoring, it would know coming.
- [48:41]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I think monitoring is.
- [48:42]
Kara Swisher
Yes, it is, but it's useful. When does it become. When does it. Right now. It's all kind of fun and interesting, but when does it. When is it provably useful to you?
- [48:51]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I think it depends on the person. Like I've worn an aura ring forever.
- [48:54]
Kara Swisher
I had one. I'm not wearing it today because I don't. What do. I don't know what it's telling me, right? It's not telling me enough yet. We all belong outside.
- [49:08]
Gwyneth Paltrow
We're drawn to nature. Whether it's the recorded sounds of the ocean we doze off to or the
- [49:13]
Kara Swisher
succulents that adorn us our homes.
- [49:15]
Gwyneth Paltrow
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- [49:33]
Kara Swisher
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- [49:34]
Gwyneth Paltrow
the most of your summer with Alltrails. For me, it tells me a lot. And longitudinally it tells me a lot.
- [49:45]
Kara Swisher
Yes, it does.
- [49:46]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Especially going through perimenopause and these big changes I really rely on. But I'm that kind of person.
- [49:53]
Kara Swisher
Right, you are. But it has to become very easy for people to understand why they're using it. And actually a lot of science fiction does explain. Ironman does. I'm always like, pay attention to Jarvis. Cause Jarvis is how it's gonna be. Or it should be like, like I've looked this up for you. But then it has to be accurate, right? It has to be scientifically proven. It can't give you bad information and it can't be fucking sneaky and doing all manner of things behind the scenes. And that's a lot of it is like if you look at early Internet sites. Everyone's like, oh, it's glitchy. I'm like, it's not gonna be. It's not gonna be. So what are the applications that you could use, especially in health, that are actually actionable information that you can use that are scientifically proven rather than just getting your information from some lady on Instagram?
- [50:42]
Gwyneth Paltrow
There's science behind why 10,000 steps a day, more or less.
- [50:45]
Kara Swisher
There is, but it's not. It doesn't. Yes, but it's not enough. It's like. Cause it has to be individualized to you completely. Right. And what you're doing that day.
- [50:53]
Gwyneth Paltrow
And this is why it's about to get so exciting.
- [50:56]
Kara Swisher
It is 100%.
- [50:57]
Gwyneth Paltrow
With the hyper personalization of your data or assessments made on all of our data cheaply and at scale, we will have the power as individuals to really
- [51:08]
Kara Swisher
positively impact how we it is sent out among everybody. And that's the problem now it's whoever can pay the price. Right?
- [51:15]
Gwyneth Paltrow
But isn't that how it starts?
- [51:17]
Kara Swisher
Not always, no. Because right now there's so much great information out about people's behaviors and everything else it's being sold. Our health is being sold back to us in a way that it needn't be. And a lot of the things, as you know, that you do for health are not profitable. It's not necessary. Right. It's diet, it's sleep, it's exercise.
- [51:37]
Gwyneth Paltrow
10 minutes in the sun.
- [51:38]
Kara Swisher
10 minutes in the sun. It's social. It's social.
- [51:40]
Gwyneth Paltrow
It's water.
- [51:41]
Kara Swisher
Right, exactly.
- [51:42]
Gwyneth Paltrow
And loving. Yeah, social.
- [51:43]
Kara Swisher
Loving yourself. Yeah, social's number one. I mean someone was like, what have you learned from this? One of the things I learned is like don't be poor, be rich. That helps with longevity. I'm sorry to tell you. Every study shows it. And the second thing is social interaction and being part of a whole and a community. And a lot of what online has done to us is hurt our health. It just has just demonstrably using that sit more. Not just sedentary. We're lonely, we're isolated. Men, you know, young men spend too much time with porn and young women. The self esteem interviewed your Scott. Yeah, yeah. No, that's his thing.
- [52:17]
Gwyneth Paltrow
A good talk about it.
- [52:18]
Kara Swisher
He should get the fuck offline so much. But he did, he went off Twitter. He feels better. But what's really the problem is that it's not being. It's being used to sell products to us before they're first, before many of them are baked. And whether there's Enough science to them. And secondly, you're looking for these easy fixes.
- [52:36]
Gwyneth Paltrow
But don't you think on some level like. And look as like an early pioneer wellness. We definitely got criticism for you because
- [52:44]
Kara Swisher
planes are covered with bodies.
- [52:47]
Gwyneth Paltrow
But I think because really we were always in integrity and the intent was not to exploit. We've always come through it. But I do think there's a. For a certain. And again, it's like part of the American sort of, let's try it optimization. Let's try. Let's see how much we can be the stewards of our own outcomes across all different verticals. And I think with wellness, because of the pharmaceutical industrial complex, our medical complex,
- [53:24]
Kara Swisher
the way that this, the diabetic industrial. I agree with this.
- [53:27]
Gwyneth Paltrow
The way that it's set up, people are like, hey, wait a minute, like, I don't trust this. And I understand that, you know, all this, the, you know, these big pharma companies are giving me all this data about why all these drugs are gonna help me. But like, what if I just try eating better or moving my body and like from the experience, the felt experience of taking small steps to improve wellness.
- [53:51]
Kara Swisher
Right.
- [53:51]
Gwyneth Paltrow
It's sort of. It all kind of blew up.
- [53:53]
Kara Swisher
It is. But you know, it's sort of like saying, you know, there's a lot. There's a quote I use in the book which was from a philosopher, a French philosopher, and he's like, when you invent the ship, you invent the shipwreck. When you invent electricity, you invent the electric. Why do we have to disdain the good parts of the technology which are really real, like, and will help us optimize. If that's the word you want, I don't love that word because it's always used as a word.
- [54:18]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I don't actually love it too, but I struggle to find another word.
- [54:21]
Kara Swisher
Right? No, but it's to try to figure out why not think about what's better for the rest of us and the way it's being articulated to a lot of people, and especially because all these tech billionaires are paying for it. Some of them are doing it well. Larry Ellison's doing it well with institutes and science and everything else. What can we use? How can we take science? Yes, how can we take science and technology and use it for the betterment of everyone versus a small group? And it's done in this way because
- [54:48]
Gwyneth Paltrow
everybody thinks about it the same way. They think about like trickle down economics.
- [54:52]
Kara Swisher
Right?
- [54:52]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Like the rich people will do it and then we'll all get It.
- [54:55]
Kara Swisher
But it's not ever true. It is not true. It is not true.
- [54:57]
Gwyneth Paltrow
It is never true.
- [54:58]
Kara Swisher
And so what we do is, you know, there's been a lot. You know, again, Hollywood's a good way to look like there's a lot of movies. And I'm recalling there was a Jodie Foster movie with Matt Damon where he's on the earth and can't get the medical attention. Oh, yeah, what was it called?
- [55:10]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I forget.
- [55:10]
Kara Swisher
Up in the Sky. She's a crazy bitch. Up in the Sky. Right. You know, with all the medical reason they have to get the kid to the bed. Great, great movie.
- [55:17]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Right?
- [55:17]
Kara Swisher
Why can't I. Anyway, anyway, they. So it's. It's kept from everybody else. And so we're. What we're doing is it can optimize for. But it's. This is not going to go down. And then there's all these issues about privacy concerns, like around. Around all this health information. And so it's. So what prompted me is, first of all, I was at so many dinner parties, which I suspect you were at. A lot of these were all these guys. And they were all guys telling me about all their different things. First it was intermittent fasting. There's a lot of shows that. Some of that is good if it's done correctly. Then it was soylent for a minute and a half. Right? Remember that. We're gonna optimize our time by not eating. I'm like, you are gonna be a joyless piece of shit if you do that. But fine piece of bread is. Is great. I hate to tell you, they tried one thing after the next. I'm taking this, I'm taking that.
- [56:02]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Psychedelics, psychedelics, all of which hyperbaric.
- [56:06]
Kara Swisher
Let's look. Do not do that. That one you must stop doing. Okay, I don't do it because it's not good. Like if. If oxygen is good, three times is better. I'm like, no, incorrect. Incorrect answer. If you have the bends, knock yourself the fuck out.
- [56:21]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Yeah, that's.
- [56:22]
Kara Swisher
You know, you got a wound. I'm down for you to get in there, climb on in the coffin, and it's great. But otherwise. Otherwise not good. Again, they're selling it to people. So 3, 400, $500 to get in there and do something that's not gonna help you. Scientifically proven so far, if it's proven, I'm down for it. But one of the things. So I was at these dinner parties and first thing that struck me was when women are doing these things, whether they're Sucked into the diet complex, which I think is just as dangerous. Right. This one diet after the next, when women, it's mentally.
- [56:54]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Has been now undermined, meaning very much by GLP1 GLP1s.
- [56:59]
Kara Swisher
It's a combination, right? It's gonna be a combination. So one of. I'll get to that in a second. But when women do it, it's body dysmorphia. When men do it, it's body hacking.
- [57:07]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Like, it pisses me off.
- [57:09]
Kara Swisher
Pisses me off, exactly. Right. Like repeating this stuff. So I was sort of, like, measuring
- [57:14]
Gwyneth Paltrow
their boners every day.
- [57:16]
Kara Swisher
Yes, I interviewed him. He's a poignant figure.
- [57:20]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I can't wait to watch it. You know, my son is really intrigued by him and follows him, which I, Brian Johnson, and we're talking about.
- [57:26]
Kara Swisher
But he's an experiment of one. He's not going to help the rest of us. That's what. So anyway, he came, as I said, came to my conference and talked about brain health and his depression and everything else. And so I'm fine with it. But then it turns into this narcissistic. And he says it, Brian Johnson says it. Then I become this narcissistic Patrick Bateman motherfucker. And I'm like, yeah, that's correct. Because what you're doing doesn't help everybody. Why can't I just put it out there? I'm like, you can, but you're not really helping people.
- [57:54]
Gwyneth Paltrow
But I would push back on that, only because, like, my son, who follows this guy who, you know, I don't follow him. I'm not his demographer. Graphic, my son. I now hear things. You know, it's like, if it's coming from me, like, hey, eat some greens. It's like, get it out of my face. But it's like, well, Brian Johnson says, you know, I really need to, you know, whatever it is, like. And they're the right things, like, sleep better.
- [58:20]
Kara Swisher
Stop. Some of the stuff he says is absolutely right.
- [58:22]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Right. So I do think that.
- [58:24]
Kara Swisher
Except then he moves on to hyperbaric chambers. Then he moves out to, like, why don't you inject yourself? No, because he goes and does it. Like, I'm gonna go down and put. Inject myself with things that are very dangerous. And so.
- [58:36]
Gwyneth Paltrow
No, but like, if he exists, theoretically, if it's theater to sort of move the Overton window over or let people think about the idea of access.
- [58:48]
Kara Swisher
Access if he's only with those messages, I guess. But, you know, you yourself got slapped back to last Sunday over a couple of things. Right. So I don't understand why they're allowed to do this when if you look
- [59:02]
Gwyneth Paltrow
at like RFK and we didn't even do anything. I mean like when you look back it's like, oh, we talked about gluten free food and.
- [59:09]
Kara Swisher
But here's the deal. Why do they. Right now the amplified weaponized information environment means people are getting some really bad information.
- [59:17]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I agree.
- [59:18]
Kara Swisher
And that's the response. You have then a responsibility not to. And he says it in this interview. He, he's like, I'm like, but you're an influencer. And he's like, yeah, you have to play the game. I'm like, do you? If you really want to help people, why not back gold standard tests that'll help all of us.
- [59:33]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Because a lot of times I would argue those tests are never going to benefit a large corporation.
- [59:40]
Kara Swisher
Right?
- [59:41]
Gwyneth Paltrow
So like a lot of times.
- [59:41]
Kara Swisher
So why doesn't he pay for them though?
- [59:43]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Well, he should. That's what I said.
- [59:44]
Kara Swisher
He goes, well, how many can I pay for? I go, a fucking buttload, my friend. Like, why does it have like, you
- [59:49]
Gwyneth Paltrow
know what I mean?
- [59:50]
Kara Swisher
Like why is there money spent on this stuff if they're really going to be generous? Look at Mackenzie Scott.
- [59:55]
Gwyneth Paltrow
He would need a double blind, like placebo backed study on one thing would be immeasurable by himself.
- [60:03]
Kara Swisher
Like, okay, you want to talk about red lights, let's have a real study. It's very thin on the studies, right? So let's have like. I'm not dismissing it, I'm just saying you're selling people all manner of what they do is there's one thing applies in a small way and helps inflammation or whatever and then it solves everything. It like takes you out to dinner, it babysits your kids and it leaves you breakfast in the morning. It doesn't do that. And so people, it's the same thing as the diet complex. Like, oh, if you do the grapefruit now, Gwyneth, you're gonna do this. And it's one after the next. And it's not lifetime changes that we need to do to get everybody healthier. And a good example for GLP1s groundbreaking. And then the other part, first there's the misinformation I was furious about. Then there was all this narcissism. Which one? Online. Just the online. Like in the wellness space. In the wellness space, like there two wellness influencers. And I called them and I said, where'd you get this information? Well, we googled it. I go, well it's Actually inaccurate completely. And I'm like, but you're saying it and people are believing you. Oh, we'll fix that. I'm like, no, no, no. You're telling like you've already done the damage. Like, how dare you. But they were benefiting. And so was YouTube. And so I was irritated by the misinformation, just like I am in the political misinformation. It's really deceptive and dangerous for people. And so what I want to do is like, let's lean into marrying technology was socially things and our government, who should be caring for the people. Government isn't there to make money. The government is there to help every allegedly is there. And so that's what I was looking at. And then I tried all the nonsense stuff because it's funny.
- [61:38]
Gwyneth Paltrow
What did you try?
- [61:39]
Kara Swisher
Oh, I did. I got in the hyperbaric chamber and I came out looking like a baby. I did. It's astonishing how fantastic I look from that single thing I did. You know, the red light, there's a funny scene of. In like a coffin of red light. Like it's a $70,000 thing. It's crazy. Like. And again, it's in one of these high end health things and like promising all manner of stuff that it's. There's some promise around inflammation. There's some promise around hair. We did. We did the PRP thing again. Willing to listen. Yeah, like willing to see.
- [62:11]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I tried the PRP thing for my hair. It didn't work.
- [62:13]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, it doesn't work for some people. Some people don't like Rogaine because it gives them heart palpitations. What? We should be pushing this stuff forward. Sometimes it works. But now it's unregulated. It's all these clinics that are everywhere. So people might be getting sold just like in the old days. Snake oil salesman. Right. So I did ketamine because it's a really interesting thing.
- [62:35]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I saw that it was not for you.
- [62:37]
Kara Swisher
No, I don't have trauma that I'm trying to address. In certain cases we should be doing these studies about how it helps, especially with SSRIs or treatment resistant depression. Right, Exactly. But sometimes it doesn't work that long. Sometimes it does. And of course it immediately there's all these clinics unregulated. Why if this is supposed to be something so amazing, why not really deploy it to the population and not let the drug companies run the show? But look, we have them. So how do we work with them responsibly so that it'll benefit the most
- [63:10]
Gwyneth Paltrow
People, was there anything that you did that you thought, hey, there's really something.
- [63:13]
Kara Swisher
A couple of things. I did a sound pod with Scott Galloway, which was fun. Which was kooky.
- [63:18]
Gwyneth Paltrow
What's a sound pod?
- [63:19]
Kara Swisher
It's this new pod that vibrates and plays indigenous music at you and then you supposedly everything gets solved. But some stuff. Stuff is obviously music has been helpful to humanity. Yes, absolutely. So what is it that you could do? It's around meditation. I think Scott fell asleep, so it didn't really help him.
- [63:35]
Gwyneth Paltrow
No, that is.
- [63:36]
Kara Swisher
That is helpful. Right? Exactly.
- [63:37]
Gwyneth Paltrow
That means his parasympathetic.
- [63:38]
Kara Swisher
I was in the equinox has these new sleep rooms.
- [63:42]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Oh, yes. You know, which is like, I heard they're great.
- [63:45]
Kara Swisher
They are. But at the same time they. Cause like, you know what you could do? You could put a shade on, put that fucking phone down and lower the temp.
- [63:53]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I know, but like, there's such a tam for this kind of phrase.
- [63:57]
Kara Swisher
A hundred percent, I'm fine. If rich people want to do this, I'm good. Take their money. It's great. I just want it to be deployed for everybody. And in an exchange with Brian Johnson and I had, he goes, I'm just trying to give people things to do. Like, you could eat olive oil. Correct. You could do more strength training or balance training. Absolutely. Everyone can sleep more. And I was like, brian, everyone can't sleep more. Poor people can't. They have two jobs, they've got homelessness, they're worried about healthcare.
- [64:27]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Well, there's a real, like Maslow's hierarchy to this. You know, it's like, of course, when you're talking about optimizing your. All of these things, you're talking about people at the top of the pyramid. And that's probably what you're cynical about.
- [64:42]
Kara Swisher
I'm cynical. It's because they're like, if only people did this. I'm like, you know, people can't. Like the same thing. Like when everyone lost their friggin mind over Zoran Montbalmi talking about grocery stores in poor neighborhoods. Like, they're like, how dare he do communism? Although, meanwhile, Trump's like investing in intel and taking a dollar off of every vig of every deal that we do. Like, give me a break. You know, he's getting money for that steel thing, whatever the hell he's doing there. Like, give me a break with these people. But then he's like, we need healthy foods in poor neighborhoods and everyone's losing their minds. And I'm like, you know what? They can't get an apple. Yes, you're right. They need to eat an apple. We need to also have it in schools. To talk about this is, I think
- [65:21]
Gwyneth Paltrow
it's a great idea.
- [65:22]
Kara Swisher
And I'm like, listen, it's going to hurt the potential, dig. I'm like, is it because they're not selling the apples either? Because it's not like, so we may have to fund that. Why don't we talk about an apple? Like, that's the kind of stuff like that, that doesn't, that doesn't. I'm here to sell you an apple. Like, can you imagine? It's not really a great business, is it?
- [65:38]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Probably, Probably.
- [65:39]
Kara Swisher
The Gwyneth apple will be beautiful, though, coming from the Gwyneth tree. She picked it, she wrapped it and sent it to you.
- [65:46]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Exactly.
- [65:46]
Kara Swisher
I think you should do that.
- [65:47]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Well, I have Goop Kitchen, which is.
- [65:49]
Kara Swisher
Yes, you do. It's actually lovely. I love Goop Kitchen. Thank you very much.
- [65:52]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Thank you very much. I mean, that's.
- [65:53]
Kara Swisher
But how can you then translate to, to cheaper, right?
- [65:57]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Well, it's very difficult because what you're talking about is, I mean, we, in this country, we have made industrial farming, industrial farming so pervasive and so cheap. And then forget about highly refined. And, you know, it's like, everything is, we've made food product. It's not food, but those are people's expectations around pricing. And it's understandable. But, you know, I mean, I know for me, I, I, I really wish we could go back to a culture around having your own garden, obviously in the Northeast and, But, you know, before World War II, almost all Americans grew something, right? And even just that act of like growing something that you're picking and eating.
- [66:41]
Kara Swisher
Agreed, you know, agree. I mean, one of the things that's interesting, years ago, I interviewed a European regulator. It was amazing. And she said, you know, you Americans have traded convenience for everything. Like, everything, because it's like a map or this, and you've traded away, you've become a cheap date for the Internet. And I was like, we have, we've given us all our information for what, a dating app and a map, and they get all the money. Like, to me, I was like, you're a fucking cheap date. Why don't we get a piece of it? And so one of these things around the healthcare is, it's so important. Healthcare costs in this country are double. It's $15,000 per capita year.
- [67:21]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Insane.
- [67:21]
Kara Swisher
And guess where we are at the bottom of every list. Infant mortality, everything. We're at the bottom Europe, 6,7000.
- [67:27]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Obesity, diabetes, heart disease.
- [67:30]
Kara Swisher
So we're getting a bad fucking deal. And so that's my thing. I'm like, why are we getting the. Where are we getting the worst? Because it's a perfect flywheel. Exactly. So that's why the one thing I figured I had to say, number one thing, universal healthcare, a basic level of health care.
- [67:45]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I think you should leverage your reputation as the scari on the planet.
- [67:50]
Kara Swisher
Okay, I'm gonna sell supplements now. I'm the Gwyneth apple. I want to do the Gwyneth apple.
- [67:57]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Let's do a collab.
- [68:00]
Kara Swisher
I think you should gently place it in the beautiful handcrafted.
- [68:04]
Gwyneth Paltrow
We can do like. We can make ceramics to hold the ample. I mean, imagine. But I think you should wield your
- [68:11]
Kara Swisher
influence vagina in some fashion. It's like the next vagina candle. Yeah, perfect. By the way, my son's love their vagina candles. I gave them to them. You sent them to me.
- [68:21]
Gwyneth Paltrow
We had to stop making.
- [68:22]
Kara Swisher
Be proud of that. Be proud of the vagina.
- [68:24]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I am, but it was just. Do not became. Do not let anyone tried to. Yeah, it was like this great feminist statement. I love the vagina cancer.
- [68:33]
Kara Swisher
Let me just tell you. I'm friends with Jennifer Beals and when we were in Las Vegas and there was a flash dance, she like goes like this against flash dance because she's so. And I go, own fucking flash dance. I love it.
- [68:44]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Flash dance is the best.
- [68:46]
Kara Swisher
Own it, Own it, Own it.
- [68:47]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Own it. I own the vagina candle.
- [68:48]
Kara Swisher
I love it.
- [68:49]
Gwyneth Paltrow
It's just annoying that people are so reductive that they couldn't get the point of it.
- [68:54]
Kara Swisher
Sounds weird. My sons love it. They're so happy with their vagina.
- [68:57]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Maybe I need to bring it back.
- [68:58]
Kara Swisher
Bring it back. The last thing you say. What worked? VO2 Max was really interesting to find out what that is. Yes. And I don't think it's expensive sometimes.
- [69:06]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I've never done it.
- [69:06]
Kara Swisher
But it's a really good indicator of longevity and health. And if you improve your Vieto. Max, amazing. One of the things Zeke mentioned was doing things that you're uncomfortable doing. Trying new things. So. He's a cancer researcher. He learned to make honey. He does ballroom dancing. He does short order cook, something. I just recently had a mahjong party. Why? I don't know. I just did the tiles.
- [69:31]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Believe me, this is like sweeping the nation, right? It is.
- [69:34]
Kara Swisher
I know, I know. It's a ball of 20, 26, as they say. So doing things I shall not. But it Was interesting. Like, I spend a lot more with my kids, like, and quality time, like real time. You don't have to spend tons and tons of time. But it really like my daughter and I started making I happen to like Instagram food videos. And so we made butter. They're fun. We made butter, we made bread. We do stuff like that. We try. I'm making this staple car with my son. Like we saw it online and so that was kind of fun. I'm using online the 23 year old, of course. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. The 21 year old could build a
- [70:09]
Gwyneth Paltrow
car and run away.
- [70:10]
Kara Swisher
He's a technologist. But stuff like that. And I think if people start to do that. And I do think, absolutely. And this is an opportunity for business. People are tired of extremely online. They want to be with people. Covid made us crazy, crazy, crazy and accelerated online trends, some of which are good, some which are bad. And so people I met with this bunch of students in. I met students, young people in Brooklyn. They play games. It's a game night. I went with a neuroscientist who was explaining what was happening from a cognitive point of view. That's cool. It was cool. And they're all playing games and they're meeting with each other other and talking and no phones. And that was astonishing. I met with this group of people called time something Time to you. You get introduced to six people you've never met and you meet and play bowling and have dinner. Do you know how hard that is?
- [71:01]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I love it. I would love that.
- [71:02]
Kara Swisher
Well, that would be. They'd be shocked. Oh, hello. I mean, should I know it was time something.
- [71:08]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I always try to meet strangers, though.
- [71:10]
Kara Swisher
That's the other thing.
- [71:11]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Like I always, always, you know, I like I had a thing yesterday and I was like, I'm pretty new up here. And I was like, bring, just bring cool people. I want to meet. I want to meet. I'm very into that.
- [71:21]
Kara Swisher
But the last thing is interactions with people you don't know. Even if they're brief, they're so good for your health. I can't even tell you if you have one health hack meet like when you're in it. And my son taught me this because he's the friendliest person on earth. Whenever he goes, he like, he's doing it like a minor with a cashier, barista, whatever it happens be, he goes, hey, how was your day? This is what happens to people. I've started doing it. It is crazy how much it works. People go like this like this, because they don't get asked how their day is. But. And then you have an interaction, and it's a small thing, but I have to tell you, there's. You're trading so many health benefits, and it's not going to solve. It's not going to make you live nine years more, but it is going to make you live a second longer. And so.
- [72:05]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Or maybe more in a more fulfilled way.
- [72:07]
Kara Swisher
Whatever. In a more fulfilled way. In a cognitively helpful way. And it helps you. It helps them, and it's kind. And that's the one thing that you have to recognize is that social interactions with people and not your phone, and not people on your phone. And I love my phone. I love my phone.
- [72:26]
Gwyneth Paltrow
It's crack.
- [72:27]
Kara Swisher
I know, but it is. And so that's the one thing, is spend time with people. And that's the real business opportunity, by the way, too.
- [72:33]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Well, I cannot wait to watch the show.
- [72:35]
Kara Swisher
Thank you.
- [72:35]
Gwyneth Paltrow
It's been an incredible pleasure.
- [72:37]
Kara Swisher
Pleasure to. As usual.
- [72:38]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I'm sorry we went over.
- [72:39]
Kara Swisher
That's okay.
- [72:40]
Gwyneth Paltrow
But you're just so interesting.
- [72:42]
Kara Swisher
Oh, very interesting. You really are. All right, I want you to watch K Pop Deep and Honors, though. Fine. No, don't, don't. I'm telling you, I will. If you have children, you know this.
- [72:52]
Gwyneth Paltrow
My children are grown up.
- [72:53]
Kara Swisher
Yes, but you need to watch it. You'll be like, thank you, Kara, so much for watching this show. Really. It's a wonderful show. And by the way, the messages in it are very much, very important messages. Very subtle, very smart.
- [73:05]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Okay.
- [73:05]
Kara Swisher
You watch Gida Rivalry, right? Correct.
- [73:07]
Gwyneth Paltrow
You know, I haven't seen that.
- [73:08]
Kara Swisher
Oh, my God. What are you doing?
- [73:09]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I watch murder shows.
- [73:11]
Kara Swisher
Okay. Really?
- [73:12]
Gwyneth Paltrow
Yeah. No, no, I think it's.
- [73:15]
Kara Swisher
What movie are you in? You ever in a new movie, Right? You were. Oh, you were in Marty Supreme. I've not seen that yet. Well, so I am going to watch it.
- [73:22]
Gwyneth Paltrow
That's your homework.
- [73:23]
Kara Swisher
I'm going to watch Marty. But I don't.
- [73:24]
Gwyneth Paltrow
God damn it.
- [73:25]
Kara Swisher
I hate to say it, but I don't like Timothy Chalamet. He looks like a woman I dated. I'm sorry. I know you're not supposed to. I don't know him. I don't know.
- [73:32]
Gwyneth Paltrow
I'm sure he's a nice guy and he's talented.
- [73:34]
Kara Swisher
I get it. He just looks like women I've dated many years ago.
- [73:37]
Gwyneth Paltrow
That's why this is over. Thanks for tuning in. This has been a presentation of Cadence 13 Studios. I hope you'll listen, follow rate and review all of our episodes, which are available for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey or wherever you get your podcasts.