← The Grand Tourist with Dan Rubinstein
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- [00:01]
Jeanne Gang
Oh, every place I go for architecture, I always go birding. You know, it's about place and this is one of the ways I connect to a place. You know, even in Paris, even in Rome. You would not believe how much variety there is out there in the world. And birds.
- [00:18]
Dan Rubenstein
Hi, I'm Dan Rubenstein and this is the Grand Tourist. I've been a design journalist for more than 20 years and this is my personalized guided tour through the worlds of fashion, art, architecture, food and travel. All the elements of a wealth of life. Before we get started, a little programming note, don't forget that our first ever print issue of the Grand Tourist is now available for order online@thegrandtourist.net It's 364 pages, printed beautifully in Belgium with a linen wrapped hardcover and three cover options and contains stories from around the world with incredible photography from Seoul to Los Angeles to Tunisia and Berlin. Again, you can order it online now@thegrandtourist.net My guest today is a real, well, influencer in the world of architecture. While I've interviewed her in the past and have known her work for years, it was only last year when she seemed to break through to the public consciousness. CBS Sunday MORNING called her arguably the most important woman architect anywhere after the completion of her expansion of New York's American Museum of Natural History. To me, she's held this title for quite some time already. Why? She has every virtue, a great architect, an aggressive vision, a can do attitude, technical curiosity and a passion for things outside of just design. Jeannie Gang she's based in Chicago and is an American Midwesterner through and through and it clearly informs her life and practice.
- [01:48]
Unknown
More on that later.
- [01:49]
Dan Rubenstein
She studied abroad in France as a student and cut her teeth working for Graham Koolhaas at the famed OMA before before setting out on her own quite early in the design world. She might be best known for the Aqua Tower in Chicago, which was a forward looking creation that really made a statement and was even the tallest female designed building in the world, a title that was only overturned when she built another one, the St. Regis Chicago. Years later, time and time again, however, Gang is not known for her simply big and beautiful things. Instead, she's known for using nature and the environment to shape her projects, often innovating in new and refreshing ways. I caught up with Jeanne Gang from her headquarters in Chicago to talk about how the great American road trip inspired her as a young girl. What she learned from studying traditional architecture in Paris, her love of birding, what actionable Idealism is. And much more.
- [02:47]
Unknown
I kind of wanted to start at the beginning because, you know, I've met you before and. And I've written stories with you before, but I don't know much about your early life. So I read about, you know, you grew up in Illinois and you had three sisters. And I believe your dad was an engineer and that he would take you on, like, road trips to see things like bridges and things like that and really great, kind of like American things to see out on the road. Tell me about those experiences.
- [03:14]
Jeanne Gang
Yeah, like, I was really. Because he was an engineer and a civil engineer who designed roads and bridges. Road trips were, you know, kind of our vacation, summer vacations across the whole American 50 states. We would always go just like, there was always a goal that he had to see some bridge or, you know, some special bridge. So that was. That was kind of the organizing theme of the vacations. But, yeah, it was a really, you know, it was very like, American in that sense. No trains, of course, and always in the car. But what I also discovered during that time, though, was the American landscape. And I have a passion for landscape and. Yeah, just so much variety that I discovered during those trips.
- [04:03]
Unknown
How often would you do them? Was it like summer?
- [04:04]
Jeanne Gang
Oh, just summer vacation. Yeah. And then, you know, I would always be the one collecting rocks and, you know, with my suitcase becoming too heavy to lift it back into the car by the end of the trip. But, yeah, that was kind of my first introduction to, let's say, construction structures. They were very exciting, but also like this, you know, the living part of the landscape was really exciting to me, too.
- [04:31]
Unknown
And I also read that your mom was a librarian, was kind of involved, things like Girl Scouts and things like that. That had, like, an impact on you. It sounds like a very kind of can do, practical upbringing.
- [04:45]
Jeanne Gang
Yes. I mean, the other thing about her was that she was very, like, civic minded and also very into the environmental movement at the time. So that exposure probably was embedded in me. And a love of books, of course, and literature and the written word were imbued by my mom. So. Yeah, but can do. Yes. I mean, I really liked learning things about the wilderness, outdoors, the great outdoors. And, you know, that led to me doing a lot of things like building tree houses and I know it sounds very American suburb. I actually grew up in a very small town, but there was a lot of conservation areas around. And I had a nature guru, too, that I learned about many things, and this gave me a grounded sense of the relationships of all these different natural Elements to the built structures of human structures and also animal built structures.
- [05:54]
Unknown
And if we could kind of go back and visit sort of you as a 16 year old young woman, like how would you describe that girl that we meet? Who were you back then?
- [06:04]
Jeanne Gang
Yeah, I'm kind of the same. I didn't really play with like very girl type things. Like I didn't do dolls or you know, that kind of thing. But I was just a very like a naturalist, you know, a born naturalist, but always thinking of making things. So I was very driven to make things then similar to now. I really like to work with the teams and work on projects, get my hands in on the projects. And I also like to still like connect the dots of what we do as architects and how we can make change. And that involves people and it involves rallying people around ideas, around beauty and working towards a goal which I think these are still the way that I operate in the world more sophisticated hopefully.
- [07:09]
Dan Rubenstein
What made you want to study architecture?
- [07:11]
Unknown
How did that sort of journey begin?
- [07:14]
Jeanne Gang
Well, I.
- [07:14]
Unknown
Was it always something you wanted to do or someone kind of like suggested it?
- [07:18]
Jeanne Gang
I think I was leaning toward an art, you know, profession or career and just art making and then. But you know, being from the Midwest there and also this kind of family of, you know, an engineer, librarian, I guess I don't know if they, they didn't discourage it but they, they also, it just didn't seem like something you could pursue as a lifetime activity. I guess in my head I don't think I knew anyone doing that. I loved art and went to all the museums as a kid. But so I was thinking maybe I could do engineering and I had a very good in math and physics and everything. But then I found out that architecture was a little bit of a blend of the two and I just, you know, I think I found that out early and just went with it and have not looked back. So. Yeah, so I got lucky because I found something I loved very early. You know, didn't get on a detour or anything like that. I just been an architect my whole life practically.
- [08:39]
Unknown
And when you, you know, during your time in school I read that you studied in Paris and places like Versailles. And I can only imagine sort of like being that sort of naturalist girl, really outdoorsy from Illinois. Like going to Paris like for undergrad must be like the most out of body experience or fish out of water experience possible. Why study in France at the time and, and what happened?
- [09:07]
Jeanne Gang
Well, actually that's such an interesting question because I was studying architecture and the history of architecture. And then we had a chance to do this study abroad, almost like an exchange for a year, which I signed up for, but I hadn't really done that much travel outside the US at that point. Still, I mean, this is something new and exciting that I was always curious about everything, so I wanted to go see. And then what I really. What I loved. A couple of things. One is that, you know, architecture is so important for expressing what culture is about, and it has us. You know, it is really the hopes and dreams of any community and culture. And so you can see that in the way that Paris is made. Of course, there's lots of different things in Paris, and also that it's very organic in that it is. You think about what it's made out of, the limestone, the calcare. It comes directly from below the ground. It's almost like they just dug everything out from below the ground and put it on top of the ground. And it's so incredibly connected with its environment in that sense. But I was really interested in also the natural history museums there. The. There was an interesting approach to design for landscape, which was very formal, which I wasn't so used to, as many of the US parks are more in the tradition of the English garden tradition. So seeing the formalized nature was very interesting to me, and it was new to see something like that. So I think my. I'm not a landscape architect, but I love working with both the architecture on the site and working with landscape architects and trying to make, you know, habitats that are much more rich for the animals and trying to do that in the city, but all at the same time making the landscape and the building legible and understandable. So that's an interesting combination that. That maybe was produced out of that. I would also say one more thing, which is like, I really love Gothic architecture. I mean, at the time when I was studying there, it was just everyone was into villas and Renaissance, which I also, of course, love studying. But something about Gothic and its emotive qualities and its soaring structure. And I still, to this day, I think I prefer it over Renaissance, I would say.
- [12:04]
Unknown
And have you used any of that sort of love of Gothic architecture in your own work in some way?
- [12:10]
Jeanne Gang
My work and our work, it is, you know, it's. In terms of wonder and emotion, I think hopefully we capture some of that.
- [12:22]
Unknown
And so when you graduated, what was your sort of first experience like? Cause I know you bounced before starting your own firm. You know, you worked in a few others before you started your own in the late 90s. Right. So what were those first kind of couple of jobs like?
- [12:38]
Jeanne Gang
Yeah, so I really still needed to, as we all do, intern for an architect. And I. I thought, I'll use this as a chance to go back to Europe and work for someone that I like and that I admire. I ended up working with Oma and Ram Koolhaas. And my experience there was great because it was a pretty small office at the time, and I had a lot of responsibility and a lot of connection with Ram. And the projects I worked on were really interesting. The Lille Grand Palais, which was in Lille, and then the house in Bordeaux. So both of those projects were really exciting. And before kind of deciding to come back ready to start my own thing.
- [13:32]
Unknown
And what was REM working with REM like back in the day?
- [13:38]
Jeanne Gang
He's very. He's professorial in a certain way, but also, you know, a demanding boss, I would say, but also just very intellectual and, you know, and really willing to give people a chance to do their best and to shine. So. And I really liked that I was able to work both on a project that was in construction and one that was in the very conceptual side. So Leo was already. It was kind of. I was in the design development stage and also on site, whereas HAUSA was more in the very beginning, concepting all, I guess.
- [14:24]
Unknown
And when you started your career on your own with your own firm, Chicago kind of was like the center of your career, more or less for those first ten years or so. Was the just as like.
- [14:40]
Dan Rubenstein
Just to ask, like, the McCormick Tribune.
- [14:42]
Unknown
Welcome center, did you work on that.
- [14:44]
Dan Rubenstein
With REM at first?
- [14:45]
Unknown
Because I just. Or give me the story on that as sort of like one of your earliest projects.
- [14:52]
Jeanne Gang
Well, actually, you know, it was a project that REM OMA won with IIT to build the student center. And, you know, we. Actually, I'm thinking back, I entered a unofficial, uninvited version of that competition and submitted it to iit, which was a pretty big effort. And so it was interesting. Anyway, it was an official competition. They didn't allow it to be entered. But it did show that I had thought and my young firm had thought about the issues about that project, but it went quiet for a while. Then there was a local architect, there was the design architect, oma, there was a builder, there was a project manager and the client. Really where we came into the story was when there were some difficulties of moving the project, hitting the budget, you know, tensions were rising. And then that's when they called to see if we would be Able to come in as a liaison, I think it would have been just OMA architects that would have been. If they would have been on site, they could have done it. But nobody wanted to move to Chicago. So, yeah, there was a role. Honestly, to tell the truth, I. I was not really wanting to play that role because I was starting my own practice and getting it going. I also had to have a team, you know, working, and it seemed like a good opportunity, but I was very, like, cautious about us putting all of our time into that project, frankly. I mean, I wanted it to be good and I wanted to help, but I also was starting my own practice. So it was. Yeah, that's the backstory.
- [16:57]
Unknown
Yeah, there was also that and that connection to you having worked there at some point and having that kind of connection, I'm sure made it a little bit awkward for you at the time where you kind of wanted to stand on your own.
- [17:09]
Jeanne Gang
Right, Right. But my partner that led that, Mark Schendel, he also had worked at oma and that was his strength was that kind of, you know, he's more of an operations type person. So it was. It was cut out for someone like him. And so. Yeah.
- [17:29]
Unknown
And you know, why, when you started out, like, why.
- [17:31]
Dan Rubenstein
Why Chicago?
- [17:32]
Unknown
How did it all kind of start there? Like, why did you ever think, like, oh, I should move to New York or LA or something?
- [17:40]
Jeanne Gang
Oh, I thought about. I've always. I always wanted to live in New York and I really thought about it. But at the time it was multiple factors. It was. One of them was a family issue. My dad was sick and I wanted to come back. But also Chicago is, you know, one of the best architecture cities in the world. And so I was excited about being part of that. And I think, yeah, it was also just that I knew it and I wanted to be part of it. I wanted to work in a larger scale. And some of the things that you. When you're young and you are trying to decide these things, the reasons are not exactly. They don't. When you look back on them, they don't make sense, but they're what you are working with at the time. So I was thinking like, yeah, this is going to be better chance to build larger scale. Well, that actually happened. But also I was thinking that it's a city that is very on the cutting edge when it comes to sustainability. There was a lot of emphasis there. So those are the kind of things I was thinking about.
- [19:02]
Dan Rubenstein
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- [20:27]
Unknown
And for someone who doesn't know Chicago as this, as I think a lot of Americans do, you know, as a sort of treasure trove of architectural history, like how do you describe it to somebody who'd maybe never.
- [20:40]
Jeanne Gang
Been right, I would start by saying, you know, as the skyline, it's almost on the geologic level, like, almost like a mountain that is rising out of this prairie that you see. So it has this incredible silhouette from far away. But then you kind of realize that it's made up of pixels of all these incredible individual buildings as you get inside it. And I think the innovation in order to do tall buildings on what was essentially a swamp is, is incredible engineering feat. A lot of the early, you know, the Chicago school, the frame buildings, in order to be built, what's underneath them was where the innovation was. I mean, it's not like in New York where you can just go down to, you know, rock immediately below the surface, it's mushy down there. So there was a lot of engineering that had to take place. I also think that the natural history of the Chicago region is so well articulated in nature's metropolis. This famous book, it gives you a sense of like the extraction, the kind of coming together, the railroads factored in into making this metropolis is so fascinating. And so I think It's. And you just still. You can see it everywhere in the city. So those were things that I really love about Chicago. Of course, being a birder, it is on the Mississippi Flyway, too.
- [22:27]
Unknown
So tell me about that. You're a birder. I mean, do you consider yourself a birder?
- [22:32]
Jeanne Gang
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [22:34]
Unknown
So you go bird watching is basically what that means.
- [22:36]
Jeanne Gang
Yes, it means that. Yeah.
- [22:37]
Unknown
Okay.
- [22:38]
Jeanne Gang
But also just that I. Yeah, because it's like a phenomenal experience or phenomena that happens twice a year, spring and fall, when there's migration. You get incredible birds flying from all the way from, like, the tip of South America, going all the way to North America and Canada. Then they pass right through this city. So it's an incredible thing.
- [23:03]
Dan Rubenstein
And do you, like, go.
- [23:04]
Unknown
Do you go to, like, parks with, you know, birding groups and, like, try to do traditional bird watching of, like, writing down the birds that you see and carrying birds?
- [23:13]
Jeanne Gang
We use apps nowadays. You have to write it down anymore.
- [23:15]
Dan Rubenstein
Okay. Actually, I like the idea.
- [23:18]
Unknown
There's just something romantic about the idea of, you know, a little journal that you've. You drawn, like some sort of bird that you just saw with a little leather strap around it or something to keep it together.
- [23:29]
Jeanne Gang
But.
- [23:30]
Unknown
Okay, so now we're using apps, which is good to know.
- [23:32]
Dan Rubenstein
So you. And so this is.
- [23:34]
Unknown
Has this been like a. Do you actively sort of do this? Like a passion.
- [23:39]
Jeanne Gang
Yes.
- [23:40]
Unknown
What was the most amazing bird you've seen recently?
- [23:42]
Jeanne Gang
Recently, the American woodcock. I went up to the north side of the city where there's kind of like, they like, certain kind of farm field, wetland kind of thing. And then during April, the males are doing this incredible performance to attract the ladies.
- [24:02]
Unknown
Like a little dance.
- [24:03]
Jeanne Gang
Yeah. And. Yeah. So that was. It was pretty cold, but we did actually see them, and it was woodcock o' clock, we call it. Happens like, right around 7:30.
- [24:15]
Unknown
That's so cool.
- [24:17]
Dan Rubenstein
Have you traveled for birding?
- [24:18]
Unknown
Have you, like, been to any sort of. Do you do it locally?
- [24:21]
Jeanne Gang
Oh, every place I go for architecture, I always go birding. So it's another way, like, you know, it's about place, and this is one of the ways I connect to a place. So, you know, even in Paris, even in, you know, Rome. And you would not believe how much variety there is out there in the world. And birds.
- [24:44]
Unknown
That's amazing.
- [24:45]
Jeanne Gang
It's a nice. Yeah, it's a nice little benefit for me when I work in different places and. Yes. And I also sometimes travel specifically for that.
- [24:55]
Unknown
Oh, okay. Where's the coolest Place you've ever been to for birding or been or have.
- [25:00]
Jeanne Gang
Done it, probably the Pantanal in Brazil. So of course, going down there, we're doing an embassy, US Embassy in Brasilia. If you go straight west from there, you get to the Pantanal, which is just an incredible landscape with jaguars and a lot of birds. Amazing amount of birds.
- [25:23]
Unknown
That's incredible.
- [25:24]
Dan Rubenstein
Well, back to Chicago for a second.
- [25:27]
Unknown
Obviously, the Aqua Tower is going to be as a part of your CV forever. And it's become so iconic and such a kind of like a watermark in the history of American architecture. Can you explain what the Aqua Tower is to those listening who maybe have never heard of it and how it came to be?
- [25:48]
Jeanne Gang
Okay, yeah. Well, it's an 86 story building in downtown Chicago and it has this site which is. It's not the easiest site to see. You know, there's a lot of tall buildings right around it, just north of Millennium Park. And the developer came to me and I think he wanted to work with someone different. And there was at that time mostly tall buildings were all done by corporations. And he was a developer and architect himself named Jim Loewenburg. And I met him somewhere at like a dinner. And then he invited me to, you know, come look at his project. I did not know it was going to be a tower, so. But when I. But I've always, you know, I thought, I thought I would never get a chance to do a tower, frankly, because I had already started my own practice. And. But then, you know, he said, why don't we, you know, give it a shot? And I said, can I have some time for research? Because I always start with research. And he goes, well, how much do you want? I go, like four weeks. And he's like, I'll give you one week. And then he came back. I had two different schemes. And the one scheme which was the one that became the Aqua Tower, he just immediately it sparked his imagination. He knew how to build that. He wanted to go with that one. And the idea of it is that every floor is different, but they're slightly different slab edges, which are curvilinear. So as they add up over the 80 stories, 86 stories, you see waves and fluidity to it, which was, you know, for me, I was thinking about. And we knew that we would be using concrete for that building and how fluid it is and how you can, you know, use a flexible formwork. So again, I was thinking about how to build it in coming up with that design. And I also knew that wind would be an issue. And so having worked on one of my first projects was for an exhibition about NASA wind tunnels. So I was really familiar with how wind and buildings, how buildings behave under wind conditions. And so I was trying to use this variety to break up the wind so that you wouldn't have, you know, this downwash that's uncomfortable and really make it so people could go outside on their balcony. And you know, as, again, I don't think there were any buildings. People had balconies, but they were stacked and very. They were like innies, you know, like. And they were. And so in other words, they were like indentations in the building to make a little outdoor balcony. This is like the balconies are outboard and they're moving all the way around the building. It was really based on, you know, just my young staff and myself going, what would we want to have if we were living and if we ever got a chance to live in a tall building? And really for me, of course, being the outdoors person, I want to step outside. I don't care if it's cold or, you know, so I just want to be able to have that connection instead of having it mediated through, you know, a 80 story elevator ride. So that was kind of the impetus of it. And it was a big hit. And it was, I mean, it was, was not like a super expensive building. It was a very simple idea and we got it done just in time before the economic crash. If it had started six months later, maybe it wouldn't have happened at all.
- [29:38]
Unknown
Oh, okay. And do you see it in the context of a sort of biophilic kind of design of ideas of water and motion and kind of as part of that phenomenon? Or do you just sort of see that as just sort of like the name and how it kind of was communicated?
- [29:56]
Jeanne Gang
Actually the more inspiration for me was like these limestone outcrops that you get along the great lakes, which are formed by. They are formed by water and wind and time erosion. And so the. That was kind of what I was just taking a cue from. Just get started. The formal exploration was how to work. Because it's not like some AI thing where you just say, oh, make a building that looks like water. No, it was like thinking through the limits of the formwork. And kind of the way I did it was kind of going every fifth floor or something and then transposing between the floors. And we did try doing different softwares on it, but frankly the curves were ugly coming out of the computer. So it was more of an artistic Handmade lines, then of course made digital. It's still very simple, you know, thinking of hills and valleys in the, in the, you know, overall form. And the idea of it would be that when you have this variety and not straight stacked up balconies, you can kind of get glimpses around corners of the building, but also of other people on their balconies. You know, if it's all stacked up straight, it's very hard to see others. And so it is a very social building. It has turned into a building that a lot of people that are, you know, more extroverted like live there. A lot of business school grad students, but also young professionals and also empty nesters that are coming. So it's a kind of a cool building in it. It's not one of these buildings where people just bought it to invest in it and then don't live there. It's fully lived in and with this variety of types of people. So for me, it was a good entree into the things that I want to care about. For tall buildings, it's not just making some monument to yourself, it's really, it's like inhabitable infrastructure.
- [32:10]
Unknown
You know, speaking of places people actually want to live, I was in Chicago one day running around in a cab visiting some family for a trip and saw this incredible building and I was like, oh, what is that? And I have to look it up and then quickly on Google Maps and kind of like triangulated what it was. And then of course it was Solstice on the park, which was one of your projects.
- [32:32]
Jeanne Gang
Yeah.
- [32:33]
Unknown
Can you describe this project? And you know, it uses something called solar carving and so it's sort of beautiful, Very, very cool looking. I don't even know how to say that. Sorry, I'm not an architect myself, but sometimes like 20 years of design media experience that just looks really cool and almost sci fi looking. And can you explain what solstice on the park is and what that whole concept of solar carving is like? What is that?
- [32:59]
Jeanne Gang
Yeah. Okay, well, there's this other cluster of taller scale, bigger scale buildings down in Hyde park which is not in the city center, but it's where the University of Chicago is located. And obviously your family must be somewhere near there that you're visiting. And it's also very close to where the new Obama presidential library is being built as we speak. And so this was a project with a different developer, but on a site that faces north and south. So it's a building with narrower ends on the east and west and the longer expanse on the north and south facing down toward the library, the Museum of Science and Industry, and all this park face. So really the beautiful apartments that would be facing south have great views. And we wanted, we were asked by the client to give about, you know, something like 50% have balconies. Not everything. He didn't want to have balconies everywhere. I think it was like maybe 40 or 50%. And so we started thinking about like that and also that facing south instead of, you know, you're going to get a lot of solar heat gain because we're in the northern hemisphere. So what we did was we angled the walls of the building in these kind of chunks of two and three stories. But we used the solstice, the angle of the solstice where, you know, it's springtime, where the sun is on angle of incidence is on a certain angle. And so what that does is it self shades. So when you're, you know, in the winter when you want solar exposure, the sun is lower and it can enter into all the apartments. But when in the summer when the sun is high in the sky and you want to cut out that extra heat, this angle cuts off the solar exposure to the apartments. And so for every two or three floors where we made this cut, those floors were able to have the one at the bottom of that gets a bigger balcony. The one at the top of that cut gets more interior space. And then we just played a game of how to arrange these cuts in the facade. So it's kind of carving it related to the solar angles. Something that is, I think, really interesting. And we continue to work with that idea. Sometimes we're working with it so that we allow solar exposure to some other building that's behind like the solar car building we did in New York City on the High Line that was really cut so that the light could get to the garden of the High Line, you know, not blocking it out with a building. And as well working on a campus, we're working with Stanford right now, the Doerr School of Sustainability, and that one we're working with the building massing to allow light into other campus buildings and massing ours so that it's. It's kind of like being a good neighbor, but you know what I mean? But it's so I think it's exciting to think about how sun angles could redefine zoning instead of just, you know, whatever the rules are about now, which is based on other things.
- [36:37]
Dan Rubenstein
And, you know, after all of this.
- [36:39]
Unknown
Work that you've done, you know, in terms of solar carving and being sensitive to the angles of the sun and all that over time, do you feel like you've gotten. What have you learned about creating architecture this way? How is that?
- [36:55]
Jeanne Gang
It's like what I've learned, but it's also what we. What we. Our methodology, I guess, which is that we. Now I have to. You know, it's not just me. I mean, it's like, how do we work? We Studio gang, like an organism that is intelligent and based uses our research to inform new projects. You know, so that's the main concept, is starting with what's there. You know, where are you in the world? What is the climate? What is the site? What are the. You know, even on the social level, who are the different active organizations that are there? What are some assets, both civic assets, but also natural assets that you can build on. It could even be cultural assets, like historic buildings nearby or, you know, whatever it is. Like, start with what's there before you act. And that's the way I've always worked. And I think that has a lot to do with my understanding of the natural world. Probably the way that a lot of other organisms function is that they are working with what's already there. So I do that as an architect, and we do that as a firm. So we have a more organized approach to gathering that information and deploying it or building on something that we did before, but taking it into a different direction based on the specifics of the.
- [38:32]
Unknown
Project at hand and when it comes to these sort of high watermarks in your career. Of course, the Gilder censor at the American Museum of Natural History is another major milestone for you. And congrats again on that. Now that it's been a little bit since its opening, tell me about how they came about and how you're thinking about it now, because it's a sort of like, very. Such an incredible space, especially for New York. And I'm not really sure why it's so surprising for a New Yorker like me, but it's like something that everyone is, like, dying to see because it just doesn't feel like things we get in New York.
- [39:09]
Dan Rubenstein
Even though we have a lot of.
- [39:10]
Unknown
Amazing architecture, we don't have spaces like that sometimes.
- [39:15]
Jeanne Gang
Well, I'm really excited about that project because it was. Yeah, it was unprecedented if, you know, in New York to do something like that. And even though we. You know, what was so cool was that the faculty, I guess you call them the curators and the scientists and researchers that we worked with at the museum, they're so open minded and they didn't have a set thing in their mind. So we were able to bring new ideas to that. And, and if it made sense, they liked it, they responded to it well, they wanted to do it. So they were really passionate about that. Now that it's been open a little while, I think what I really enjoy is seeing how people use it as public space and just hang out in there. That wasn't really possible in the museum up till now, like have a space that's really dedicated to the public. So it has this big stair in the atrium that people like to hang out on. But also we brought the library out to be a space that you can visit. And that space is always filled with people and it's bringing natural light in, connecting to the park. The architecture just always looks different because of the way that it is shaped by the light that comes in through the atrium onto these curved surfaces. And it was really motivated by like helping, wanting to get people to discover, to make their own path and to discover the natural world sciences, you know, spark their curiosity to follow what they're interested in and hopefully, and it's a big part of the program is educational spaces. So schools come in, there's classrooms and there's also exhibits and they hopefully inspire the next generation of scientists and researchers. And it's really important, especially times like now where science is not even believed by many people. There's a loss of this kind of a dropping in the level of achievement in science in our schools and then just flooded with so much false information. So, you know, I think it's really a critical time to orient our young people back toward what science is and how exciting it can be to discover something, to research something, to prove something. It feels like an important project in that sense. But to get people in. You know, there's an emotional aspect to it. Like you come in and you feel. It feels amazing in that space and you want to be there. And there's living insects in this part of the museum. There's butterflies. And I think beauty is something that inspires people to want to go deeper. You know, you could just have a. You could have those same programs for youth and such, and you could have it in a rectangular, you know, box, I guess, or any other form. But it might not be as compelling to draw people in. And I think it's important for architecture. That's one of the superpowers of architecture.
- [42:49]
Unknown
And you've written and spoken about something called sort of actionable idealism before. And how is that sort of connected to this. If you can help explain that.
- [43:00]
Jeanne Gang
Well, that's. I think it's important to, at the start of each project, realize what the power of that project is and what it has the potential to help shift and change toward positive result. And, you know, you can do that on your own, but you can do that with your client too. Like with amnh, of course, they were well aware of this issue about science in the United States. But you do that through doing, you know, you brought up doing in the beginning. If it's on paper, maybe something on paper is interesting and exciting, but if you can't get it realized, you know, it's not going to be as impactful. So making steps towards actions toward this ideal, you know, I think it's really still very important. The reason I say that is really just like the why of why we do what we do. We are idealistic, but we want to get there. And we're going to find, even if sometimes it has to be smaller steps to get toward that future that we want.
- [44:16]
Unknown
And is that part of how you view architecture today? Maybe there's not as much, you know, actionable sort of things that can actually.
- [44:25]
Dan Rubenstein
Get done that there's too much on.
- [44:27]
Unknown
Paper or too much discussion about things on paper and not enough doing.
- [44:31]
Jeanne Gang
I just want the architects to feel they have agency. Even if it's something that seems relatively small, it can make a change that will, you know, can build to something bigger. So, you know, a lot of times I started out doing a lot of community centers, really just in all these different communities around Chicago, smaller projects, but each one with a question that's trying to push on and advance. We have to think about it like that. Instead of thinking like comparing it to something much bigger or comparing it or just, you know, or being someone that doesn't want to build or compromise. So sometimes you do have to compromise something, but maybe there's something else that comes out of that that could be an advantage. So always that's just the mindset, I think, is the actionable idealism mindset, to never give up and to just keep trying to find that issue that you can work toward.
- [45:39]
Unknown
And when it comes to action, there's this need for housing in a lot of major cities across the world, London and New York, of course, and all across the usa, there's sort of a housing shortage.
- [45:52]
Dan Rubenstein
When you hear this sort of talk.
- [45:53]
Unknown
Out there in politics or just in.
- [45:55]
Dan Rubenstein
The news or in architecture, where we.
- [45:57]
Unknown
Talk about the need for housing, like what comes up in your mind as an architect, like a kind of a wish list or like something that like pops into your head?
- [46:08]
Jeanne Gang
Well, I think right now I'm thinking mostly about what in buildings that we already have, what could become housing? How can you convert structures into housing that's, you know, exciting and pleasant and interesting and then going forward, you know, if we get buildings that are maybe it's an office, how could you design it in a way that could be reversed into housing? So thinking of it up front and that because there is such a need, as you say, it might be even faster if we can think of ways to use buildings that are already there. And it would save more carbon also, by the way.
- [46:48]
Unknown
And of all the projects you have sort of in planning stages at the moment, is there one that is the most challenging from a technical or an engineering point of view?
- [46:57]
Jeanne Gang
The Doerr School of sustainability. It's something that it's challenging because on the architectural side, it's a new home. The first new school at Stanford for the last 70 years, they're making to address sustainability. So bringing together earth sciences, biology, oceans, all kinds of different disciplines that have never been together before. So it's like a new home for them. So that's really important as a challenge. But then how do you address sustainability for something that's a sustainability school? So it's really forcing us to drill down and make decisions also that we want to be replicable. So not just spending the most money on things, but what is the most appropriate thing to do and how can you get that to be such a leader in sustainability for that particular project? So there's a lot like riding on it. So it's also, yeah, it sounds like.
- [48:05]
Unknown
You know, they say doctors make the worst patients. So I can only imagine doing a school at a university about sustainability to study it and then to be under full, you know, public and academic review in every conceivable point of view and every conceivable angle. That sounds challenging unto itself. And speaking of schools, you know, you're a frequent speaker, you're also a teacher. What is the biggest lesson about being a successful architect in the 21st century that you think every young architect really needs to understand?
- [48:49]
Jeanne Gang
Well, I think it has to do with this idea of addressing big issues even through a small project. So my last studio that I gave the students was adding capacity onto the New England Aquarium, which is an over 50 year old concrete building, which also is on the Boston waterfront, which is subject to climate change. So and is already experiencing flooding in their area where they have the mechanical so it's a lot of problems at once. And also the issue of oceans that the aquarium is dealing with. How can architecture help to engage with the visitor about climate change, about the oceans, which is their focus, as well as be amazed by what they see in the exhibits. But get people to the pier, it's on Central Wharf, which is subject to massive changes right now over the next number of years. So it's really, like, loading. I think the students, then, they really have full exposure to the complete extents of the issues, and then they need to navigate their way to develop positions, to develop questions that they want their work to address. So, yeah, I think my philosophy is to give them everything so that they can, because it is going to be even more and more complex in the future. More threats from the environment, but also still the need for experience. And I like to give it all and then help them navigate where they want to focus and how they make their hierarchy of how they're addressing those things. And I think all students, but also all practitioners are going to have to start working in this way. So, yeah, it's a lot, but. But it's super interesting challenges.
- [51:13]
Unknown
And if there's, like, one thing you wish, just the general public or, you know, I don't know, people with power, like, whether or not they're billionaires or developers or someone on a zoning board or the, you know, the senator of Illinois, like, whatever, you would want to kind of sit them down and have them really understand about the power of architecture. What would you say?
- [51:39]
Jeanne Gang
I would say it's not just architecture, but it's also the. It's not just for humans. It's also all living things are threatened right now. And so, like, bringing nature back into the city, engaging, making our buildings stop causing climate change, so, like, you know, making them better for the environment. Sometimes we forget or we think of cities as, like, divided from nature in a way, but because the whole planet is having these stresses. Cities can be great places also for biodiversity. And I think that our buildings need to take that into account, use all their surfaces to support that, make it possible for people that are using these buildings to also enjoy the natural environment as well, including access to light and natural air and such. So I think it's really a message about how important it is right now to build, well, to reuse buildings, to. To incorporate ideas about nature into the city.
- [52:54]
Dan Rubenstein
Thank you to my guest, Jeanne Gang, and to everyone at Studio Gang for making this episode happen. The editor of the Grand Tourist is Stan Hall. To keep this going, don't forget to visit our website and sign up for our newsletter, the Grand Tourist curator@thegrandtourist.net and follow me on Instagram danrubenstein and you can purchase the first ever print issue of the Grand Tourist Online on our website. And don't forget to follow the Grand Tourist on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen. And leave us a rating or comment. Every little bit helps. Till next time.