Nearly every mainstream conversation about humanity's future, our current global crises, and our place in the natural world shares one common theme: the quiet, unquestioned assumption that humans are the apex species on Earth. This belief is so woven into our systems and thought patterns that it rarely gets named, let alone challenged. But what if this invisible worldview – more than fossil fuels, overpopulation, or any single policy failure – is at the very root of the ecological crisis?

In this episode, Nate speaks with primatologist and author Dr. Christine Webb about human exceptionalism – the deeply embedded belief that humans are separate from and superior to the rest of nature. Webb argues this worldview is not a universal human trait but rather a product of a few dominant cultures, and that it lies at the root of many of our most pressing global challenges. Drawing on her research with chimpanzees, bonobos, baboons, and other non-human primates, she illustrates how traits once thought to be uniquely human (like tool use, language, empathy, theory of mind, and culture) are in fact shared across species in various forms. Furthermore, Webb advocates for reimagining economic, legal, and educational systems to reflect the intrinsic value of all life.

What, exactly, is the meaningful line between "us" (humans) and "them" (other species), and who benefits from drawing it? How are current scientific 'best practices' accidentally reinforcing the myth of human exceptionalism, and what can we do to change them? And finally, if we decenter human exceptionalism, what richness might we stand to gain in community, meaning, and wellbeing?

(Conversation recorded on February 17th, 2025)

About Christine Webb:

Dr. Christine Webb is a primatologist and Assistant Professor in the Department of Environmental Studies at New York University as a part of the Animal Studies program. Prior to joining NYU, she was a Researcher and Lecturer in the Department of Human Evolutionary Biology at Harvard University.

Her research follows two intersecting lines of inquiry: understanding the complex dynamics of social life in animals, especially other primates, and examining how the dominant narrative of human exceptionalism has shaped scientific knowledge of the more-than-human world. These two lines of research have cumulated into her 2025 book, The Arrogant Ape: The Myth of Human Exceptionalism and Why It Matters, which argues that human exceptionalism is an ideology that relies more on human culture than our biology, and more on delusion and faith than on evidence.

Show Notes and More

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