Flourishing Through the Hard and Holy :: Jennie Lusko

Summary

The Grove Podcast
Episode: Flourishing Through the Hard and Holy :: Jennie Lusko
Date: March 4, 2026
Hosts: Shelley Giglio & Jennie Lusko

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Episode Overview

In this heartfelt and wisdom-filled episode, Shelley Giglio sits down with Jennie Lusko—pastor, author, and friend of The Grove—to explore what it truly means to flourish “through the hard and holy.” Their conversation weaves together stories of faith, marriage, loss, daily obedience, and the beauty of spiritual community. They debunk the myth that a flourishing life is built on a series of dramatic moments, instead highlighting the quiet, faithful “yeses” that shape who we become. Whether you’re in a season of growth, waiting, or struggle, this conversation will give you courage and practical insight for your own walk.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Seeds of Calling and Becoming (03:15–04:24)

• Jennie shares her early dreams about partnering in ministry, recalling, “There was a little, tiny seed of something, but… I could never fully imagine or dream up what I get to be living in and walking in today—in the good and the bad, the hard and the beautiful.” (Jennie, 03:35)
• Shelley and Jennie agree that God often prepares us for our calling long before we realize it, and that becoming is an ongoing journey: “I think that’s the whole journey, right? Is us becoming the things that God intends for us to be.” (Shelley, 02:34)

2. Marriage, Differences, and Complementarity (05:06–10:55)

• Authenticity about differences: Jennie and Shelley both acknowledge how different they are from their husbands, and how learning to see those differences as complementary—not frustrating—has taken years.
• Jennie’s lens metaphor: “It’s almost like when you go to the eye doctor, and he puts the lens on. Over time, God’s been so faithful to put the lens of faith and love on how I see Levi. Instead of looking for faults… [now] it’s, ‘Wow, God made you so different than me, but it’s so great.’” (Jennie, 08:37)
• Fruit through perseverance: Jennie reflects, “It’s actually so helpful sometimes to see that I am learning and growing—even if it’s slow. Like, ‘Oh, I’m reaping this joy and this sweetness,’ and things that maybe have never been visible before.” (Jennie, 09:54)

3. Perseverance, Obedience, and the Daily “Yes” (12:07–14:49)

• Practicing obedience: “A lot of life isn’t easy. I’m telling my kids almost every day: practice patience and obedience even when it doesn’t make sense or you don’t feel it—because one day, God’s going to ask you for a big yes.” (Jennie, 12:07)
• Shelley draws a parallel for adults: “Practicing obedience isn’t just for the fifth grader… it’s for us to take God up on that every day and learn how to fight the good fight of faith even when we don’t feel like it.” (Shelley, 15:13)
• On feeling vs. choosing: “Sometimes I don’t feel it at all—I feel the opposite—but God, in his grace, when you keep showing up and keep loving, you see fruit come.” (Jennie, 13:58)

4. The Allure of Big “Yeses”… and the Challenge of Daily Faithfulness (17:10–22:01)

• Big decisions seem impressive—but daily obedience is harder: Jennie admits, “For me, the big yeses are easy—the little yeses are hard.” (Jennie, 20:18)
• Shelley notes: “Life doesn’t hinge on the big yeses; it might get us into the places where all the little yeses become the mantra.” (Shelley, 21:13)
• Counting the cost: The women highlight how Gen Z (and many of us) are drawn to heroic leaps but often unprepared for the cost of ordinary, daily faithfulness.

5. Remembering God’s Faithfulness and Community’s Role (22:03–28:56)

• Ebenezer moments: Jennie sees big steps of obedience as memorial stones, writing them down to remember God’s faithfulness. “These are the things you write in your journal… the pillars or the stones of remembrance.” (Jennie, 22:03)
• The importance of church: Being rooted in church lets you witness faith at every stage of life. “You’re able to see with your own eyes… what faith looks like for different people.” (Jennie, 24:26)
• Borrowing faith: Shelley shares how sometimes, when she’s low, she “borrows faith and nutrients” from friends who are in a stronger season. “That’s what you see in the church… we’re growing together.” (Shelley, 27:14)

6. Building and Maintaining Intentional Relationships (28:56–33:47)

• Jennie’s honest struggle: “I am not naturally intentional with friendships… but as I’ve been on the receiving end, I know those little texts mean so much.” (Jennie, 29:39)
• Community sustains in loss: When her daughter Lenya went to heaven, the consistency of friends like Holly Furtick—who texted verses nearly daily—deeply strengthened her. “She said yes to reaching out to me… it was a touch from God.” (Jennie, 31:43)
• Taking responsibility: Shelley encourages, “When God lays somebody on my heart, I want to be responsible with that. I want to intentionally tell them.” (Shelley, 33:48)

7. Embracing Joy in the Midst of Hard Things (35:05–38:24)

• Shelley’s life perspective: “People taking themselves too seriously is one of the hardest parts of my life. If I’m missing out on joy daily, what is my life going to end up being like?” (Shelley, 36:16)
• On legacy: “When people look at my life, I’d love them to say: she carried hard things, but she did it in a way that felt light.” (Shelley, 37:25)
• Jennie connects joy to Christ: “Jesus carried a heavy burden, but there was a kindness and a joy—kids flocked to him. We aren’t called to carry all the heaviness. As we exchange it with Him, it is light and beautiful.” (Jennie, 38:09)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “I feel like I know less, but I’ve grown more. That’s just the kingdom.”
  — Jennie Lusko (07:28)

• “So much of my life within our marriage has been, ‘Why can’t I be more like Levi?’… Instead of the beauty, I was seeing only frustration. Over time, God’s lens shows me why we’re better together.”
  — Jennie Lusko (08:37)

• “Life doesn’t hinge on the big yeses—it might get us to the places where then all the little yeses become the mantra, which is life.”
  — Shelley Giglio (21:13)

• “These are the things you write in your journal… the big moments, the Ebenezer type moments—remembering where you’ve come from so God can build your faith.”
  — Jennie Lusko (22:03)

• “Sometimes, we have to be diligent to enter the rest. There’s a tension because there is an action to resting. But God is with you in every step.”
  — Jennie Lusko (41:55)

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Important Timestamps

• Opening and Introductions — 00:25–01:18
• Jennie’s early dreams and calling — 03:15–04:24
• Marriage and learning differences — 05:06–10:55
• Perseverance and daily “yes” to God — 12:07–14:49
• Montana move and the challenge of daily faith — 17:10–22:01
• Community, church, and remembering God’s faithfulness — 22:03–28:56
• Building intentional relationships — 28:56–33:47
• Embracing joy, legacy, and lightness — 35:05–38:24
• Prayer for women in every season — 38:25–44:06

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Memorable Prayer Moment

• Jennie prays for every woman listening:
  “Father, we lean into you. We thank you for Your presence, Your peace that passes understanding… I pray, God, that [each woman] would receive your love, that you’d instill in her what the next step is… that she would rise up like a lion, use her voice to bring glory to your name… [and] have a relaxed confidence to go forward.” (40:02–43:40)

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Takeaways

• Flourishing isn’t about dramatic leaps but quiet faithfulness.
• Your life is built through daily small acts of obedience.
• You need a spiritual community; no one “flourishes” alone.
• Embrace your differences—with your spouse and friends—as a divine design.
• Fight for joy and remember God’s milestones in your life.

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For more encouragement and to join The Grove community, visit thegroveonline.com or follow @pccthegrove on Instagram. Connect with Jennie at @jennielusko.

Transcript

[A]

Hey, it's Christian Stanfill from Passion and we are so excited to hit the road this summer with our friends Taya and Levi Lusko. These nights of worship are going to be so special and we believe God has something unique in store for each city and each of us. Head over to passionmusic.com to get your tickets and we'll see you soon.

[B]

Hi, friends. Welcome back to the Grove Podcast. It's Franchesca Price here and today we're bringing you a conversation that is full of honesty, wisdom and deep encouragement. Shelly Giglio is joined by her dear friend and a longtime Grove girl, Jenny Lusko. Jenny is a best selling author, podcast host, wife, mom of five, and she pastors Fresh Life Church alongside her husband Levi. Jenny's journey of obedience, faith, heartbreak and flourishing has inspired so many of us. Together, they unpack what it looks like to become the women God intended, not through the dramatic moments, but through the quiet daily yeses that sh our character. Whether you're in a season of growth, waiting, struggle or renewal, this conversation will meet you right where you are. Let's dive in.

[C]

Hey, I'd love to talk to you. Today we have Jenny Lusko with us on the Grove podcast and she is obviously a favorite. You've been on several times. I think you and Olivia have been on, you've been on, we've had you a few times, which we love. You've been to to the Grove. We consider you a Grove girl, so I hope you consider yourself.

[D]

I absolutely do.

[C]

You are grafted in which we love.

[D]

I'm so grateful.

[C]

Oh, we love you so much. So, so thankful for your life. I think of all the things that I've gotten to see your life kind of explode over the years. It's so fun to watch you. You wrote a book about flourishing, but to actually watch you flourish is so much better than any of the book could ever be. And I think, you know, God was prophetic through you in a lot of ways and wrote that book as you were learning. And you're obviously still learning. We're all still learning. I'm 61. I know less today, I feel like than I've ever known in my life. So I don't know if it's just an awareness. Seriously, I don't know much. I really don't. I'm learning. I have so much to learn. Same about God and people and relationships and I mean, just I feel like every day there's more, which is amazing. I want to continue to grow, but I feel like God was so prophetic in so many ways through you, because you wrote a book that you were learning about how to flourish in the person of God and who he had really created and made you to be. As you were learning, God was growing that in you and watching your life come to that state, and obviously you have a long way to go. But of really, truly being a reflection, I think, of his heart for you is such a cool thing for me to watch you live that way and I guess really become. I think that's the whole journey, right. Is us becoming the things that God intends for us to be. And you didn't come from a background, like, growing up. Would you have ever thought growing up that you would be the person you are today?

[D]

I think it was in my dreams, like when I was 17 was when I felt like, man, I would love to be a pastor's wife. And I don't. At least from talking to other pastors wives, like, I feel like most of the dreams in their hearts didn't include being a pastor's wife.

[E]

I would say that's true for me. Yes, it's a no.

[D]

I honestly didn't really know what that meant. It was just more like, oh, I think I would just want to do ministry with my husband and I want to serve Jesus with my husband. So I feel like there was a dream of that, but I had no idea what that meant or what that would look like. And so on one hand, like, yes, because there was little tiny seed of something, but then on the other hand, it was like, no, like I. I could never fully imagine or dream up what I get to be living in and. And walking in today in the good and the bad, the hard and the beautiful. Like, it's incredible and I'm so grateful.

[C]

Yeah, I feel like. I feel like God does put the seed in us of. I think it was in me too. I wanted to partner with someone in life and make much of God. And I knew that from when I was quite young and didn't know Louie, didn't have a clue who I would marry, where it would lead. So I definitely think it was a filter for me of who I was looking for without me being able to articulate that or really even probably say to anyone out loud, that's what I want. So I understand that. But I also feel like so much of my life was preparing me for it without me having a clue that that's what was happening.

[D]

Totally.

[E]

I did not know a thing.

[C]

And I'm guessing you didn't either. I mean, you came to know The Lord. You wanted to follow him. You wanted to say yes to him, whatever that meant for your life. But how could we have known what God would do? And when I think about you and Levi, too, I always want to ask people about this because Louis and I are so different and you guys are so different. It's just a miracle. Is there not.

[D]

It's a miracle, a literal miracle, that

[C]

Louie and I, or that you and Levi would be put together to live life. Talk about some of the differences. Talk about how you've learned them as compliments. Just talk about that process a little bit.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

Well, I think, first of all, going back to you talking about writing a book about flourishing and flourishing at the same time. Like, I think that when I wrote that book, I really don't think I knew. I don't think I knew much at all, honestly. Like, I feel like I wrote a book in obedience and faith because I never wanted to write a book. But now it's like, looking back, back, even some of the things I wrote, I'm like, how did I know that? I don't think I knew that. But God's just so, like, funny and faithful and. And now getting to see a little more clearly. And like you said, like, I feel like I know less, but I've grown more. And I think that's just the kingdom. Like, you're always learning, always growing, but it doesn't make sense to the human eye. And I think that that's the exact same with how God brought Levi and I together. Like, our heart for the Lord was the same, but pretty much everything else was very different because I am a really good follower and he's a really good leader. So I guess in that sense it does make sense. But I'm also just the total opposite of him. And he's visionary and knows where he's going, knows how to say where he's going, knows how to just do life. And he's like. He takes his time. And for me, it's like, I don't really know where I'm going, and I don't really know how to say where I want to go or if I want to go anywhere because I'm happy just to be sitting and not going anywhere. And I take my time in the sense of, like, I just. I'm very. I feel very. Like, I'll just take my time. I'll be luxurious with my time and whatever God leads in the moment. Like, I'm so there. And so it's, over the years, really been a thing of Us realizing who God made us to be individually, but how God designed us to come together and be incredible together. And I think it's just taken such a long time because so much of my life within our marriage has been, why can't I be more like Levi? And why can't Levi be more like me? And why can't we see the way each other sees and just more of the frustration behind it instead of the beauty of it? And how God so intricately and specifically designed us. Amazing the way we are, but how much better we are because where we lack, the other is stronger and vice versa. And so I think it's really just been a constant journey of that and me seeing what is so incredible about him in the same lens as when I would see it and be frustrated or bugged or man, what is going on here? I think as it's almost like when you, I don't know if you have gone to the eye doctor and they put like the lenses on and it's like, okay, can you see better with this or without this? And it's like I feel like over time like God's just been so faithful to put the lens of, first of all, faith and seeing in him maybe what he can't see or what the naked eye can see, but then also like just seeing with a lens of, you know, kind of like a rose colored lens too. It's like, okay, lens with love and not just looking for the faults and the frustrations, but just like, wow, God made you so different than me. But it's so great. And so I think it's just. And it's constant and it's ongoing. But I think I feel like even in this past year, like God has

[E]

just

[D]

grown me in a lot of different ways. And it's like when you're doing the things that you know you're supposed to do and you're like loving even when you don't feel like it, and respecting even when you don't feel like it and you're doing the things but you just don't necessarily feel the growth or feel the fruit. I feel like this past year in particular, like, I've just felt like, oh my gosh, I can see that fruit. Like, I can see the things that maybe I've sown over the years and getting to see, like, oh, I'm reaping this joy and this like, sweetness and things that maybe I've never seen before or were laying dormant, but now it's like, oh, thank you, God. Like, I don't need to see the fruit. But it's actually so helpful sometimes to see that I am actually, like, learning and growing and hopefully becoming a kinder wife and, you know, all that stuff.

[C]

But I like that you talked about the struggle of the first part of marriage. Cause I think for us, it was. Louis and I have always enjoyed being around each other. We've never had a moment where we really. That I wanted to be somewhere else or whatever, or I think he did, but I think we maybe.

[E]

Maybe we should ask him. I doubt that.

[C]

But I think the struggle of being in it together, certainly working together, which you guys do. We do as well, and living together, and you have children together, and so you're raising kids 24, 7. There's never a moment you're not doing that. The pressure of that with the differences is intense.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And there are days where it just feels like a clash. It's like, I do not understand. I don't get you. This is so clear to me. It's so different for you. How can we be in this together and see things so uniquely? Yes.

[E]

Yes.

[C]

I think a lot of people find themselves in that stage of life. And you describe something that's better and a seeing now that maybe you've never experienced before in your marriage. Talk about what it means to persevere when it's not that easy.

[D]

Well, I think a lot of life isn't easy. And I think at least something that I'm telling my kids. I feel like almost every day of just practicing patience and knowing that, like, the things that I'm asking you to do today may not feel like what you want to do, but as you practice, like, obeying throughout your life, it's going to be easier when you see God ask when you know God's asking you to do something and you do it, whether you feel it or not. And I think it's. I mean, that's all throughout the Bible. It's like there are people in the Bible, real people who lived real lives, who God asked them to do crazy things, and they did it well, most of them, and the stories we like to tell. But it's just. I don't know. I guess I just see it more simply and to my detriment and to my growth. Like, I just kind of see it, like, well, yes, I'm gonna do this, and I don't feel it, but I'm gonna do it. And I think that has been the struggle over the years, too, of just feeling like I'm just doing this. Like, I don't Feel like my heart is in it. I don't feel like I'm passionate like I used to or whatever. And it's like that maybe is more of an indicator of what's going on in your own heart than what you're dealing with, like the person that you're dealing with. But I think for me, it's really just come to, like, I just want to obey God, and I want to honor and respect and love my husband. And even on the days when maybe that doesn't come as easily, which now I feel like it's come easy. But there were. There was a day where it didn't come easy. And I think that.

[F]

I don't know.

[D]

I think as you just choose, this is what I'm gonna do. I don't feel it. I actually feel like the opposite. But God somehow in his grace, in his love, in his timing and favor, like, he'll just kind of plant those things. And so I don't really know if I have the answer as much as just kind of like, keep showing up and keep loving and keep giving, whether you feel like it's reciprocated or not, or whether you see that it's reciprocated or not. Because I think sometimes it's. Our spouse will reciprocate, but it isn't in the way that we want to receive it. So we may not be aware that they're actually showing us love and care, but it just isn't the way we want it in the moment, I guess.

[C]

I like that you said to your kids, let's go ahead and practice obedience now. I mean, it feels like with kids, I guess the stakes are a little lower. Probably not going to be. I mean, as a parent, you're going to keep them from a massive fall, hopefully. You know, you're not going to just let them do something completely crazy. You're trying to kind of keep it within a zone, within the rails, whatever you want to call it. But I feel like without letting kids understand that they have choices in the equation, that you don't just get told what to do, but that you get to choose to obey in that. And I think them understanding that with a parent helps them understand what it means to follow God. Because we don't always understand how it's gonna play out. And so many kids, third grade. Why? Why, why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Well, you're not gonna always know why. I haven't. In all of my choices that I've said yes to God in, I don't know. I'm saying yes to something that it hasn't played out. And I don't know how it's gonna work out. And I don't know if it's gonna work out, but I know that he said it. And so what am I gonna do with what he said? I'm gonna obey. And I feel like that practicing thing is something that as adults, we could take on pretty seriously. You know, that it's not just for the fifth grader or the ninth grader or the senior in high school, that it's for us to say, let's take God up on practicing obedience today and let's learn how to say yes to God when we don't know the outcome. And let's learn how to fight the good fight of faith when we don't really feel a lot of faith welling up in us. I mean, I think about you guys, you know, moving to Montana. You weren't married that long. You lived in a much warmer place. You decided God was asking you for a big change in obedience. You went. There was nothing really to go to. There were no people waiting for you there to receive you and to help you make it easy. You were in a part of your life where you were beginning to grow your family and not knowing how that's going to play out, far from family and help talk about that season of life and saying yes to God.

[F]

Anyway, I. I think I was ready

[D]

for that big yes because I as. I mean, all throughout high school, I would. I felt like God was leading me to be a missionary, honestly, to, like, Africa or Asia. Like, I was like, yes, I'm just gonna go wherever you call me, God, I'm gonna go. And so I feel like that, I mean, quote unquote, big yes was easy in the sense that, like, we always. We were. We dreamt that we would start a church. So, like, when we even first got married and we had a crew of friends that we were like, one day,

[F]

like, we want to start a church

[D]

in a big city because we just feel like God's called us to call to reach a lot of people. So we were like, la, New York. Like, I don't know. It was just the dream. And. And so when it kind of was stirring, it was. It was clear to me. And I think it. Maybe for Levi it took a little bit more like, I don't really know, but for me it was like, yeah, of course. Like, God would call us to an unknown place where even someone in our life was like, there aren't even any people in Montana. What are you thinking? And so I think that yes was the easy one. But then the yeses that kept coming as we were saying yes to the first thing, those were the things that were hard. Cause I feel like I'm the kind of. I feel like God has given me the gift of faith where it's like, yeah, totally, I believe that. I believe that. Yeah, that's great. And when Levi comes up with this vision of reaching youth in all way Montana, it's like, yeah, totally, that makes sense. But it's always the little yeses that get me.

[C]

And what are some of those? Talk about what some of those would be.

[D]

Yeah, so like, I guess just the daily. The daily things of moving, moving to Montana and then finding out, like, I'm pregnant with our second daughter, Lenya. Cause at the time, Livy was 15 months and she was our only child. And so the week that we moved to Montana, I find out that I'm pregnant with Len and we're living in this friend's barn. And, like, it just is like, okay, really, like, this. Is this. Is this what we moved here for? And we don't have insurance for this next baby and.

[F]

Okay.

[D]

But yes. God, I'm gonna. I'm gonna listen and I'm gonna walk. And I think so that was one thing. And then leading worship, like, I led worship for the first time, two months of fresh life, which I had led worship in our youth group before. But it just felt like, is this like, I don't think I'm supposed to do this. And I don't know, it's just.

[E]

I've been there, I've done that. Yes.

[D]

I don't think this is right, required,

[E]

but it's not a fit. Yeah, I get it.

[D]

It's not a fit. Exactly. So, yeah, it's like those little things, seemingly little things that actually are the bigger things, because it's the little things that as you say yes to, then you look back and you see the road that your yeses have allowed for you to go. And so, I don't know. I guess for me, like, the big yeses are easy. The little yeses are hard, man.

[C]

I think you should unpack that even more. Because I feel like, particularly in this generation, I mean, we just came from Passion. Gen Z is. They're on fire, man. They're. They're. They're gonna take the world. And I love it so much as. You know, we've believed in them for a long time. We've waited for God to answer in so many ways. And do what he's doing now. And it's just incredible to be a part of it and to be alive for it, really, to be in it at any level is such an honor. The other side of that, I think, is that they're all in for the big yes. Let's go. Let's do something dramatic. Let's do. We're in. Let's do it. But they have no idea what it looks like to count the cost every day and what it takes to actually build a life of faithfulness where you just show up day after day after day and say yes to God, no to yourself, say yes to other people, prefer them above yourself. They haven't yet understood that process. And I think that's what you're talking about. Life doesn't hinge on the big yeses. It might get us to the places where then all the little yeses become the mantra, which is life.

[D]

Right, right.

[C]

Well.

[D]

Cause it's like those big yeses. Like, you'll look back and I think those are like the pillars or the stones of remembrance. Like, okay, yeah, if God could do that, then, yes, he can do this. So I feel like those things were like, you write in your journal, like, man. Okay, when I was 19 years old and I felt like God was calling me to New Mexico, but my parents marriage was falling apart and the 911 had literally just happened a few days before. And my twin baby sisters were like, this does not make any sense and I should probably just stay here with my family and be like a stabilizing force. But it was like, no. I decided I'm going to move to New Mexico. So, like, writing that down. There have been times in my life where, like, I'm journaling and I just will write down those kind of, like, I think in the Bible, like, Ebenezer type moments where it's like remembering where you've come from so that God can stir up and build your faith to look forward to what he wants to continue to do. So I think those kind of things are important where it's like these big moments, but like you said, like, those are great and big and good and things that you can point back to or just see clearly, like in the landscape of all God's done. You see those big, like, skyscrapers, but then it's like, yeah, but then it's like the middle ones, the valleys, the things like you said that are just the daily. Okay, I'm just gonna get up and read my Bible. And I didn't really understand everything that I read or I'M not feeling it, but I'm going to obey. And I think that the little kind of things that are the daily yeses lead to the big ones. Because if you're not able to hear God's voice in the little things or obey in the little things, then how can we think that we're going to obey in the big things? But also it's like who you surround yourself with. So it's like for those of us who are all in ready to take whatever God calls us by storm and run and go and do. I think it's also, are we planted in the house, in the church where we're seeing this play out in people's lives? So what I love about the grove is one of the things I love is just the very, the fact that you're planted and you're seeing trees of all different ages and phases and life and seasons and, and you're able to see with your own eyes because you're planted in the same place. You're able to see what that faith looks like for different people. And when you're in a small group and you're actually discussing like the message on the weekend or a Bible study or like your in real life, in the little things, seeing, oh my gosh, like if this woman in her 70s can love and serve God in the middle of her struggles that she's going through and the disease that her husband is dealing with or whatever, it's like, okay, I can do that. I see a 20 year old who

[E]

is

[D]

wanting to be married and struggling in singleness, but still choosing God. I choose you and I love you and I wanna live my life for you. Like, okay, that's so inspiring. So I think it's just, it's that, it's worship, it's. I don't know, it's all of the things. And I feel like even right now, like Levi and I, he's doing the carnivore diet and I'm, I don't know, I'm just trying to not eat as much and work out a little bit more.

[E]

Yeah, that's a good. I like, I like your version, but

[D]

it's like I'm doing all these things and so I feel like I'll like experiment here, here, here, here. But I don't, it's not like an actual experiment where you're supposed to have like the basic like base of what you're doing and then you add in one thing and then you see, oh, does this really make a difference? And then you, I'm just doing everything. So I feel like right now it's like, I feel so good. I feel healthy. I feel like my skin is actually, like, working with me a little bit. And. But I don't know exactly what. But I think that's because you didn't

[E]

churn it all out. You have no idea if any of it's working. I like this approach, but it's like. Like it feels good, so I guess

[D]

I'll just keep doing it all. But I think it's also the same with our souls and, like, spiritually, because it's like there are very specific things that God lays out for us in the Bible that will cause flourishing and health and growth and strength and. And taking down strongholds and all that kind of stuff. And it's like if we're just doing those things, like, little by little and day by day, it's. You're gonna. You're gonna see it because it's what God prescribed.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

I don't know. I just.

[C]

It's the path he. He encouraged us to be on. I like what you said about the grove and the various size and states of trees. And, you know, part of the beauty in being planted in a place like that is that you get to share nutrients with each other. And that's what you see in the church. That's what we see at the grove and in church is I've been in, you know, in relationship with a lot of the same people for an extended period of time, and we're growing together. And there are moments where I am way low. I don't have the faith that's required to be in the life I'm in. I feel like I'm just under it. And what I do is borrow from my friend who I know is in a higher state of life and in a better season of her life and in a growing season, and the nutrients and her diet and everything seems like it's so much better. And I kind of share in that for a minute until I can get back to stable and feel like I'm in a position then where I can re. Have a growth spurt or have a moment of. And over time, there's just variances in all of our lives and seasons. And I think about your life like, you know, when the bottom dropped out with Linya, I wasn't around yet. I didn't know you very well. I knew of you guys, but didn't really know you. We hadn't been around you much. But there were people in your life who were stable, who were steady and who were present. And if those people had not been in play, if you hadn't built your life in such a way that those people were already there, what would you have done?

[D]

It would have been.

[C]

I mean, I look back at it now, I'm like, what do people do who decide to live on an island or who have me at the center of their life and don't share with anyone else? And they build their life in such a way, but their bottom is gonna drop too. All of our bottoms drop at some point in life, and then how are we gonna be prepared for that? So talk about a little bit about the surrounding of your life and how you're intentional about that, because I'm now a part of that.

[D]

Yes, you are.

[C]

It is my great joy to be in your life and to pray you through and to encourage you and for you to do the same for me. What a gift.

[D]

Oh, it's such a gift.

[C]

But talk about how you've been intentional about building a life like that.

[D]

Well, first of all, yes, you and Louie are that for both Levi and I. And it's. It's life changing when you have those pillars of strength, when you. You need it the most, but also when they need it the most too. And I think that's. That's it. That's exactly it. I feel like that is an area of weakness for me, actually. Like, I am not naturally intentional with friendships, and that's something that I've learned from Levi and that I've learned from my. My grove of girls, from Holly Furtick, from you, from very specific women in my life who have. Who are very intentional about that. And Levi is really good about staying connected, and I'm not really good about staying connected, but I see. I guess I've learned over time just how important that is. Like, I mean, I've probably told you before, but, like, Levi has to remind me to call my mom. And it's not that I don't want to call my mom. I love my mom. We have a great relationship. But it's like, hey, have you called your mom lately? Like, oh, my gosh. I know that.

[C]

I was about to. I was thinking about it.

[D]

I was thinking about it. Thank you. But it's just that kind of thing because I'm so. I mean, one of my strengths is also. I mean, isn't it true, like, our strengths are also our weaknesses? Like, I'm good at being in the moment, but I'm so good at being in the moment that I forget about things that are Outside of the moment. So, like, planning for tomorrow or keeping in touch with people who live far away, like, it's just hard for me. So I feel like it's just been an extra added, like, okay, I really. I really need to at least text my friend and just say, hey, I'm been thinking of you and love you and just wanted you to know that. Like, and I think as I've been on the receiving end of that, I know that those little texts mean so much. And so, like, even like you said when. When Lena went to heaven, like, we also.

[F]

We.

[D]

We were friends with Pastor Steven and Holly Verdick, but God used them greatly in our lives, like, to almost daily. Like, Holly would text me a verse. I think it was almost daily, maybe weekly for a long time. And we didn't really know each other. But she just, like, she was saying yes because I'm sure she had so many other things that she was doing and so many other people she was reaching out to. But she said yes to reaching out to me, which, first of all is humbling and like, what. Who am I? But also receiving it as a touch from God and that God would speak through someone like that. And I feel like that has just been our story is like, yes, I'm bad at that, but I have people in my life who are good at that. And if I can just be mindful of. Because God does lay people on my heart. But in the moment, it's like, oh, gosh, yeah, I pray for that person. But then a week later, it's like, oh, I should have texted them when I was thinking of that. And it's that kind of thing where I think sometimes, like, I know God has gifted each of us with strengths and with things that we maybe are naturally good at, but then there are the things that if you're not naturally good at, it's just asking God to help you be more aware and to grow you in that. So I feel like I'm. I'm learning still of what it means to be intentional, and it doesn't come naturally. And so.

[C]

But don't you think awareness of it is part of what gets you over the hurdle? Yes, I think so many times we're just. We live so unaware of the things that are big gaps, and we just kind of ignore them. And like, oh, I'm not good at that. But I think your awareness of it and watching other people do it for you and benefiting so greatly from that, even talking about Holly and how her consistency really changed your life in a season where you desperately needed God to touch your life. And when you see that and experience that, it does encourage you to. I could be that person for someone.

[F]

Exactly.

[C]

I mean, I'm not walking around looking for em, but when God lays somebody on my heart, I wanna be responsible with that.

[F]

Definitely.

[C]

And it's so funny. I was texting a friend this morning about something that was related just God just had a dream last night about him. And I just texted, hey, this is the dream I had. And I thought it was funny. And I also thought it was maybe profound. And the response back was, you won't believe that I'm in the midst of a fight. Fight of faith related to that very thing.

[D]

Wow.

[C]

And so you can look at that one of two ways you can say, wasn't that interesting that I would have a dream on the night that you're discovering that there's a fight of faith needed in that regard. Or you could say, that must be the Holy Spirit. Because I wasn't like, hey, I'm gonna

[E]

dream something and then I'm gonna. When I wake up tomorrow, I'm gonna text you. Cause that just feels natural to do.

[C]

But I was following and laughing. Kind of like how interesting that that's something I would dream and then I would take the moment captive, like it's what you're talking about, and intentionally tell you, hey, I could have just sat on this, it's kind of weird. But instead I'm gonna tell you about it. And what that did in them was to bring courage to press on for what is needed for the God right

[D]

at that right time. Right at that right time.

[C]

That man, that stuff of God, I am addicted to it. I am literally like, God, this is what I want in my life. I don't want to just live on the plane where I'm just doing the here and. And I'm so unaware of what you're doing above me and throughout all that's happening. And I wanna live in the plane where I really am in sync with you enough to say yes to you in those little moments. Because I do believe that's where the fruit comes from. And, you know, just watching those things take root in our own lives and grow up into big trees of oaks of righteousness are beautiful. So let's bring courage to others to do the same.

[D]

I love how you said your dream was funny and profound. Cause I feel like that just describes you.

[C]

Oh my gosh, the quirkies.

[D]

Yeah, you are funny and profound all at the same time.

[E]

I like to kind of mash it all up. Just keep people guessing, I guess. I don't know.

[C]

I think. I think God gave me a sense of humor because he knew I would need it in my life. I think people taking themselves too seriously is honestly one of the hardest parts of my life, is watching people

[B]

I

[C]

don't know get so burdened by the heaviness of life that there's no joy, there's no humility, there's no peace. There's no joy in just the experience of what we have. And, man, I've shared so many meals with you and Levi and Louis where we just laugh through the whole thing that something somebody did that was dumb or silly or funny. And I feel like, man, when I look back at my life at 61 now, and obviously I hope I have a long way to go, but I don't remember a lot of that burden. I remember a lot of the joy. And so if I'm missing out on that, on the daily, then what is my life going to end up being like? And we're all going to stand at each other's graveside eventually, if we live that long and talk about something amazing about the person. I hope, but I really hope. When people look at my life, I think what I would really love for them to say is that she carried hard things, but she did it in a way that felt life. Yes.

[D]

Oh, my gosh, that's exactly it.

[F]

That's how you live.

[D]

And it's strengthening to me because I think so often it can. And even in what we do and how we help people and serve God in our work, it's like, it can be so weighty and so heavy and. But it doesn't. Like, that's. We are not called to carry that. We're called to carry what God's called us to. And he's the one that carries the burden and the weight and the heaviness. And it's like he can as we exchange that with Him. It is light and it is beautiful. And you just see, even through the Gospels, it's like, that's how Jesus was like. He carried. He carried a heavy burden, but there was a.

[F]

There was a kindness and a sweetness

[D]

and a lightness, and kids flocked to him because he had a joy about him. And so I. I'm just. I'm grateful that you. You live that. And it's inspiring to me all the time.

[E]

Sweet.

[C]

I love you. I'd love to pray for women that are in the middle of the struggle, whether they're in the first part of their marriage and they're trying to figure out how to make it through, whether they're raising kids and trying to figure out how to teach them things like

[D]

how to obey, whether they're in their

[C]

own life and trying to get to the point where they can actually see some of the fruit of their flourishing. I mean, we live in big gap periods of time sometimes where nothing seems visible and we're just in what seems hard. And I think for those women, just to hear our voices today, pray for them in Jesus name, that they will be lifted, that they will be encouraged, that they will see something that will give them courage to press on, to press in. I think, you know, I was reading in 1 Timothy 6 today and all the descriptions of what it means to walk with Jesus were, fight the good fight, press into faith, like believe God for things. And it was. Nothing was passive, everything was active. Like if you want to grow, you're going to have to fight. You're going to have to push and believe God. You're going to have to contend for the things that he has for your life. You're not just going to sit back in the lazy chair and wait for them to arrive. You're going to have to press into the things of God if the things of God are the things you want. So let's pray for women that today something in us will rise up that says, that's what I want for my life, that's the kind of life I want to live. And I want the courage to press in and obey God today. So will you pray for us?

[F]

Amen to that. Well, Father, we. We lean into you and we thank you for your presence and we thank you for your peace, your peace that passes understanding, that we can go through the hardest thing. But the way that you carry us and the way that your peace comes upon us, it just doesn't make sense. And we just thank you for that because our, our limited human brains couldn't

[D]

even handle what we're dealing with and what we're going through.

[F]

But your peace is sustaining. And so we thank you. We thank you for that. And I just pray for the woman who is in that place struggling and wanting to fight, wanting to have the eyes of faith, wanting to see the fruit come out of her life. I pray for her and I believe that you have her here for just this moment, for such a time as this, to see and to hear and to receive from you. And so I pray God that she would receive your love. I pray that you would instill in her what the Next step is. And I love, Lord, that our relationship with you is compared to a walk into movement, into action, and to step after step after step. And I pray that. That she would see right now that the next step, no matter what that looks like, you're with her and you're holding her hand and you're her good shepherd and you. You are leading her. And so I pray that she would rest in you, that she would be. I love how it says, I think in Hebrews, to be diligent, to enter the rest. And it. It's kind of. There's a tension there because there's an action. There's an intense action to do something not intense.

[D]

And so I just pray for that woman to.

[F]

To enter, to be diligent and to be. To see that there is a watchfulness. And how

[D]

you even said in through the Gospels and also it's through the whole Bible, just being watchful, watch, be

[F]

ready, stand firm, hold fast, be, Be present, press in, lean in, fight the good fight. And so I pray, God, that you would just rise up in her. A. A willingness to be aware, a readiness, a.

[D]

Even a sea that's tiny of.

[F]

Of fight and resolve.

[D]

And the.

[F]

The choice she has, the choice to step up and to step out and to take the step with you. And so I just pray that over each woman, I pray that over every

[D]

single woman who maybe is in a

[F]

good season, who's in a hard season, but that they would see the next step that you have for them to rise up like a lion and to. To use their voice to. To glorify you and to bring the glory due your name, fame. And we just. I just pray for your presence to overwhelm them, your peace to overwhelm them, that they would have a relaxed confidence to go forward in what you've called them to do. And I thank you so much for this time. And I thank you for your strength even now, your strength just filling our hearts, filling our minds, filling our bodies with you, with your love. And would you just take us. Take us where you want us, God. We want to be willing vessels. We want to surrender to you anew today. And we love you, Lord. In Jesus name, amen.

[B]

We hope this conversation with Shelly and Jenny encouraged you to press in, to keep. Keep saying yes to God and the small things, and to surround yourself with a community that helps you flourish. If this episode spoke to you, share it with a friend who might need that same reminder. You can keep up with Jenny on her Instagram ennyleskoe. If you wanna stay up to date with all things the Grove. Join us [e-mail] and follow along on Instagram at pccthegrove. If you love the show, we hope you do. Leave us a review or tag us on Social. Thank you for joining us today. And as always, stay planted, stay faithful, and keep becoming the woman that God created you to be. We'll see you next time.