479. Welsh Election Special with Kiri Pritchard-McLean, Priya Hall and Carol Vorderman - part two

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Guilty Feminist Ep. 479 – Welsh Election Special (Part Two)

Host: Deborah Frances-White
Guests: Kiri Pritchard-McLean, Priya Hall, Carol Vorderman, Charette Williams, Tessa Marshall
Date: April 20, 2026
Location: Recorded live in Cardiff

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the urgent landscape of Welsh politics ahead of the upcoming Senate elections. With a comic yet passionate energy, the panel discusses feminist issues, threats from the far right (especially Reform UK), the distinctiveness of Welsh culture, practical election engagement, and the pressing need for direct community action. The tone is hopeful, action-oriented, resolutely feminist—and often hilarious.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Welsh Election: Candidates and Activism (06:00–10:42)

• Supporting Female Candidates:
  The audience meets local candidates, notably Zainab Akbar (Plaid Cymru candidate for Cardiff North/East), who shares her experience of religious and racial online abuse after wishing "Eid Mubarak" on Instagram (07:32).

  • "I am a Muslim... never experienced any backlash from that until more recently with the rise of Reform. I received a lot of hate... asking if I was brainwashed, comments about my looks and appearance, direct messages from old men, which were quite vile." — Zainab Akbar (07:32)

• Community Support:
  Deborah and the audience organize on-the-spot support—leafleting, canvassing, joining WhatsApp volunteer groups—to bolster campaigns facing abuse and hate.

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2. Comedy with Political Punch: Priya Hall Set (11:05–20:16)

Priya Hall performs a set using humor to highlight identity, local culture, and the realities of being Welsh-Indian.

• Caerphilly By-Election: She compares the tension to being in a taxi with a sick friend:
  • "The Valleys are like Billy Elliot but no fuckers dancing... Peaky Blinders, but no one can afford a hat." (11:35)
  • "The future of politics in the UK rests in the hands of Caerphilly... I was so panicked during that by-election..." (12:20)
• Family Stories:
  • "Growing up with my nana, Sheila, was like growing up in a doomsday cult, but the doomsday she was preparing for was the return of a Thatcher government." (13:44)
• Immigration & Identity:
  • Priya recounts her Indian grandparents’ migration and its aftermath, stressing that immigration adds to the richness of Welsh life, and warning against blaming immigrants for local problems.
  • "It really doesn’t take very long for a place to become home... Immigration is the reason we have such a distinct culture in the Valleys and I cannot stand it when Reform is in places like the Valleys telling people immigration is the problem." (17:35)

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3. Meet the Candidates: Social Justice and Green Priorities (21:02–32:54)

Charette Williams (Plaid Cymru)

• Former journalist, community activist, now lead candidate (22:00–22:58)

• "Wales has one of the lowest budgets on arts in Europe... the arts create empathy, which we so need. The word for culture in Welsh is ‘duwyliant’ – an un-angering or an un-wilding." (23:23)

• Priorities:

  • Universal free childcare:
    • "We have the most expensive childcare in the UK. If Plaid Cymru are leading that government, we are going to roll out 20 hours of free childcare... for all families." (30:38)
  • Human Rights Act for Wales to safeguard minority and cultural rights against possible far-right rollbacks (32:54)

Tessa Marshall (Green Party)

• Deaf, disabled, queer; extensive activist background (25:21–27:46)
• Priorities:
  • Housing rent freeze and retrofitting for better insulation, affordable energy (32:58)
    • "My brother lives in a house with single glazed windows and pays £700 a month—basic stuff should be happening and it's not." (33:01)
  • Bringing resource and control back to Wales; fighting far-right hate and championing inclusive politics

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4. Explaining the New Welsh Voting System – Proportional Representation 101 (35:10–39:51)

• System Overview: New "super constituencies" and the D’Hondt method
  • "You put one cross against the party you want... then a mathematical formula divides votes up so that it better reflects how everybody votes." — Charette Williams (36:47)
  • There’s no true “wasted vote”; small parties can win seats, especially the 5th and 6th, where margins are small.
  • Importance of every vote, especially for smaller parties, is emphasized.

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5. Speed Round: Combating the Far Right & Motivating the Vote (41:16–42:46)

• Top Reasons Not to Vote Reform:
  • "Nigel Farage is literally never in Parliament, and I’m willing to put money on Reform not turning up to the Senate either." — Tessa Marshall (41:16)
  • "We could lose our Senate. They could absolutely undermine the Senate. Our voice, nation, culture, polity is at stake." — Charette Williams (41:25)
  • Recent newsflash: "Orban’s been ousted after 16 years of power mongering. The far right is not a foregone conclusion. You can fight and get them out." — Deborah Frances-White (42:28)

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6. Reaching the Disenfranchised & Building Bridges (43:55–51:43)

• Overcoming Division:

  • Deborah encourages gentle bridge-building:
    • "I wrote a book called Six Conversations We’re Scared to Have... Final chapter is about how to talk to people about division. Rather than going ‘you’re an asshole’, I just ask ‘Why did you say that?’" — Deborah Frances White (43:55)

• Combatting Online Hate:

  • Carol Vorderman and others stress that every positive comment, share, or like matters, and can embolden candidates (45:09). Even a simple like or repeated message matters to those under attack.

• Face-to-Face Is Key:

  • "When you’re door knocking, people are not as aggressive as they are online... they’re trying to intimidate us but, really, it’s not as bad as you think." — Tessa Marshall (46:15)

• Making Politics Relatable:

  • Focus on local, immediate issues (rent, bills, schools) when talking to disengaged voters.
  • "Are you happy with your rent? Energy bills? Education? Explain it in their terms." — Charette Williams (50:41)

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7. Women and the Political Stakes (51:52–53:06)

• Uniquely Feminist Angle:
  • Carol Vorderman mobilizes women by underscoring that Reform’s policies could directly lead to higher taxes for childless women and potential American-style rights rollbacks:
    • "Politics is literally everything. If you choose wrongly, old Poundland Trump Farage will be repeating everything they are doing in America." — Carol Vorderman (52:40)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On activism:
  • "Even my snacks are activists." — Marad on eating vegan pizza (20:57)
• On universal appeal of voting:
  • "People will vote on X Factor because they think it’ll make a difference... why don’t you vote in the election?" — Tessa Marshall (50:20)
• On building community:
  • "Whatever party you support... get involved in some way, shape or form. Visit people in your WhatsApp groups... talk to relatives... let’s not write off old people... You have been absolutely incredible." — Deborah Frances-White (53:55)

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Important Timestamps

• Candidate social media hate, and activism: 07:32–10:42
• Priya Hall’s standup and political reflections: 11:05–20:16
• Candidate introductions, priorities: 21:02–28:49
• Why vote for small parties? Voting system explainer: 35:10–39:51
• Why not vote Reform? Top reasons: 41:16–42:46
• Engaging non-voters and combatting apathy: 43:55–51:43
• Mobilizing women and final calls to action: 51:52–53:06
• Cardiff Super Choir performance — “Don’t Stop Me Now”: 55:45–58:51

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Closing Energy

The episode ends with unity and joy, as the Cardiff Super Choir performs “Don’t Stop Me Now”, cementing the hopeful, active spirit of the evening.

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Summary by: [Your Podcast Summarizer]
Tone: Engaged, feminist, witty, practical, and unafraid to address difficult realities with optimism and humor.

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“Don’t stop us now, Wales. We can do what Hungary did. We can keep Reform out. We can keep the Senate.” — Deborah Frances-White (58:51)

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Transcript

[Deborah Frances White]

Hello, guilty feminists. I want to talk about something that half the population experiences and the other half should probably understand better gynecological health. Because so many of us grew up with patchy information, some pretty weird myths and general feeling that we should probably just not talk about it. That's why I'm delighted to tell you about Bloody Powerful the Taboo Busting Guide To Periods, Menopause and Everything in between by Dr. Brooke van der Molen, illustrated by Hazel Mead and published by Cambridge University Press. This book is a warm, clear and genuinely empowering guide to everything you probably didn't get taught in school, from understanding your periods to navigating menopause and all the confusing questions in between. Dr. Brook van der Molen is a practicing gynecology doctor. You might know her online as the OB Gyn Mum. And she answers so many of the questions we've all quite quietly googled at 2am it's also beautifully illustrated by Hazel Mead, which makes the whole thing feel accessible rather than clinical. If you'd like to learn more or give it to someone who deserves better information about their body, visit cambridge.org bloodypowerful and you can get 20% off with the code bloodypowerful20 at checkout. Because knowledge about our bodies shouldn't be taboo, it should be bloody powerful.

[Priya Hall]

Get the ice cream Love Big Freezer, It's by the Peas.

[Tessa Marshall]

Some things are really best not to put off, like defrosting the freezer, or if you're a landlord, sending a copy of the new Government information sheet to your existing tenants. You must do this by 31 May or risk a fine. Make sure you're up to date with the new laws. Find the information [e-mail] renting is changing.

[Deborah Frances White]

Welcome back to part two of the guilty Feminist. So plug in and get ready for the fun. Please welcome to the stage your host, Deborah Frances White. It's me. Did you have a good interval? Did you enjoy the first half? Are you ready to crack on with the second half? Then, please, to open our second half. Welcome back to the stage, the magnificent Marad.

[Marad]

So I wanted to sing this next song because I think it's become a sort of unofficial anthem for Wales and it's a song about loving your country and we all love Cymru.

[Carol Vorderman]

So this is O Gymri.

[Deborah Frances White]

With.

[Charette Williams]

Jesus.

[Deborah Frances White]

Absolutely stunning. So just before we move on, we have some other candidates in the house. Is Sarah Rees here? Yes, Sarah. Ned, can we have the house lights up just a tiny bit? Just in the stalls, just at the very back? Sarah Great. Just give us a cheer. Where are you the candidate for. Yes. Plied. And who. But where? Where? That's my favorite place in Wales. And Kiera Marshall. Kiera Marshall. Oh, is Kira the one with the tiny baby? Yes. So, apparently Kira gave birth while being a candidate. Some would say bad planning, but that's how much she loves Wales, because she's prepared to do it with that Zainab Akbar. Excellent, Zainab. Do you mind? Just. Ned's gonna get you the mic. He's gonna come round. Do you wanna go just round the back? Oh, yeah, just pass it down, maybe. However, this is running seamlessly. I can only imagine if the senators run this well, there'll be no problems at all. Sayna, thank you so much for joining us.

[Zainab Akbar]

Thank you.

[Deborah Frances White]

Now, I heard you'd had some kind of online hate. Can you tell us about that?

[Zainab Akbar]

Yeah. So I'm Zainab. I'm standing for Plaid Cymru for Cardiff Funontav. Yes, that is true. So I am a Muslim. I grew up as Muslim in Cardiff. Never experienced any backlash from that until more recently with the rise of reform, as many feel in our communities. I actually deleted all my social media, my personal accounts, a few years ago, But I made an Instagram as a candidate for the election and I posted a picture recently wishing all my fellow brothers and sisters a happy Eid Mubarak. And I received a lot of hate on that in the comments, asking if I was brainwashed, why am I supporting such an awful religion. Comments about my looks and appearance, direct messages from old men, which were quite vile. And it was really hard. And it was a very different response. I would say to what I get on the door. When I speak to people who support reform on the door, they're never that bold in what they would say. And I question whether these people are real, whether they're bots, whether they live in my constituency in Wales, in the uk, I don't know. But, yeah, so that was quite hard to deal with.

[Deborah Frances White]

But you're not letting it deter you. You're still standing as a candidate.

[Zainab Akbar]

Yeah. For that reason. Yeah.

[Carol Vorderman]

And

[Deborah Frances White]

how can we support you to make sure you win?

[Zainab Akbar]

Well, we're literally in the middle of the campaign. So honestly, every time we speak to someone and a different person, whether it's through an event like this and then communicating with our family and friends, or more so, speaking to people on their doors, canvassing is the main way that you can convince people to vote for you, more so than you can on social media. And I think that is the downfall with reform and other parties. They aren't speaking to people in their communities to understand them and about the issues that they're facing. So getting out on the door.

[Deborah Frances White]

So where are you running?

[Zainab Akbar]

Cardiff. So it's Cardiff north and Cardiff east, which is in our super constituency. So, yeah, any support, we'd be really grateful.

[Deborah Frances White]

Could anyone here help Zainab knock on some doors? Has anyone got an hour? Two hours.

[Zainab Akbar]

Thank you. We have a group chat where we post all the sessions. So give us a.

[Deborah Frances White]

Just give us a cheer if you think you. You would be able to give her an hour on a phone bank or knocking on doors. Great. Okay. How do they join your group chat?

[Zainab Akbar]

I have a link to the WhatsApp community where sessions are posted daily and weekly. So I can see the link or something.

[Deborah Frances White]

Zayneb, if you could stand up the back at the end and anyone who wants to join that group could come up and meet you in person, say hi and give you a hand.

[Zainab Akbar]

Yeah, I've got leaflets too, so I came prepared.

[Deborah Frances White]

Great. Sarah's got leaflets. Take a leaflet and help her get in, please, because she has experienced some hate, but nothing compared to the love she's going to feel tonight.

[Zainab Akbar]

Thank you so much.

[Deborah Frances White]

All right, and on that note, as we practically pull together, would you like to see some more stand up comedy? She is a brilliant comedian and a truly wonderful person. Put your hands together and make incredible woohooing noises for Priya Hall.

[Tessa Marshall]

Hello.

[Priya Hall]

How are we? Are we well? Fantastic. I'm so excited to be here. I'm from the Valleys. Is anyone in from the Valleys? Lads, what are we gonna do? Did they silence? Oh, no, I've been silenced. They don't want to hear from the Valleys. You guys, what are we gonna do? I gig up and down the uk, right, and I have like a shorthand to explain to people what the Valleys are like because I think it's quite a distinction, distinct culture and I like to let people know what the vibe is. What I tell people is that the Valleys are like Billy Elliot but no fuckers dancing. All I tell them is like Peaky Blinders, but no one can afford a hat. People who are in from the Valleys. Can I ask you a question? When the Caerphilly by election happened and you hear newsreaders saying the words that the future of politics in the UK rests in the hands of Caerphilly, Did you panic? Because I'm from that area, right? I used to go out drinking Caerphilly as a teenager in the 2010s, there was a persistent in Caerphilly that the swans were disappearing from Caerphilly Castle Moat because people were eating them. The future of politics in the UK rests in their hands. I was so panicked during that by election, I was so nervous. I'll tell you what the feeling was, you know when after a night out, you get in a taxi with all of your pals and the taxi driver says to you, right, if any of you are sick in this taxi, I'm gonna fine you. And you go, nobody, nobody will be sick in this taxi. But you know, there is a 99% chance that your one friend is gonna be sick in the taxi and you spend the entire drive just side eyeing her like, don't, don't fucking do. Was that feeling. But then the by election happened. They voted Plight the euphoria I felt at the fact that we had made it through the taxi drive without her being sick. From this point onwards, Caerphilly can do whatever it likes. Eat the swans, I don't care. I love being from the Valleys. I've got an old Valleys nan. Anyone else? I love my old Valleys. Now. My nana's amazing, right? My nana is an Old Valleys lady. She's very political, my nana, she's very political. Growing up with my nana, Sheila was like growing up in a doomsday cult. But the doomsday she was preparing for was the return of a Thatcher government. She'd be like, they'll be back. Was she wrong?

[Cardiff Super Choir]

No.

[Priya Hall]

She got a lot of cool stories as well. My nan. My nan has this amazing story. When she was 30 years old, my nana got dragged out of Cardiff Magistrates Court for protesting for Welsh language rights. Very cool, right? But the story goes that as she was getting dragged out of court, the security guard leant down and he whispered in my nana's ear, do us a favor and lose some weight before you come back. Now, he said this to a woman from Aberdeen. You have to assume he wanted to die that day. A lot of people would get upset by that. That was not my nana's response at all. What she did is she went home, she stacked on £20 by eating lard sandwiches and she went back because she's a legend. I mean, she does have diabetes now, but the Welsh language is thriving, so it's all give and take, you know, she's so cool, my nana. My nana is 90 years old, right? And she is pretty pro legalization of drugs because, and this is a direct quote, I'd really like to try speed again. Excuse me, Sheil, I don't know if you know this, but back in the 50s and 60s, it was really easy to get prescribed speed by a gp. All you'd have to do is go in and be like, I'm a little bit tired today. They'd be like, yeah, don't worry, I've got just the thing. My nana was on this medication in the 60s. I looked it up using its street name, Purple Hearts. Why do I know the street name? Because my nan's a legend. And it turns out this medication my nana was on was half amphetamines and half barbiturates. And I was like, nana, that sounds crazy. You had three kids to look after, you were on this medication. It sounds so dangerous. And she was like, bre. No, it was amazing. You could get all of your housework done in an hour and then you had the rest of the day to yourself and you were on speed. I did that bit a little while ago and I clipped it and I put it on TikTok. And what happened was roughly 1500 teenagers diagnosed my nana, Sheila, with ADHD. That's fair. She's so cool. I've got cool grandparents on both sides, so I'm half Indian and I'm half Welsh. A lot of people think that's a thank you. One person who I'm probably related to, let's be real, people think it's a strange combination. It's really not. There's lots of similarities between those two groups of people. For example, both Indian people and Welsh people absolutely love butter. I get checked for diabetes twice a year. What else? I think it's fair to say that both groups of people have a spicy relationship with the British Empire. And according to English people, our accents are interchangeable. I'm going to tell you a story about my Indian grandparents. So my Indian grandparents moved to the UK in 1967. You might remember that 1967 was the period that the UK was in there, we're sorry face didn't last very long. And they were told that if they moved here, they would have financial prosperity, political stability, acceptance, tolerance. And they heard all of that and they were like, that sounds lovely. So what they did was they picked up everything they owned, they moved halfway across the world while my grandmother was pregnant and they landed in the uk. They landed only to find out the hard way that all of that had been a lie. It sucked. It was so bad. They tolerated seven years of horrible racist nonsense. And after seven years of it, they were like, do you know what? We're just going to take the advice of all of our local friendly racists and we're going to go home. Seven years after moving here, my grandparents picked up everything they owned and my 7 year old mother and they moved back to the Punjab in India where they're from. Now they land in the Punjab and my mum for the very first time sees the rolling hills and the beautiful scenery and her response was no, where is McDonald's? She hated it. She hated it so much she started to stage a protest. My mother stopped speaking for six months other than to say the words, I want to go home. And when my grandmother, her mother would be like, but we are home. She'd be like, don't fuck with me, Serinda, you know what I mean? Went on for six months and after six months they realized she wasn't adjusting and she probably wasn't going to adjust. And they made the biggest sacrifice I can possibly imagine. And for the third time in their lives they picked up everything they owned and they flew back to the uk. Now isn't that the bleakest story you've ever heard before in your life? They're still here. From that point onwards, anytime a racist would be like, go home. My grandmother would be like, you don't think we haven't tried? I don't want to be here any more than you want me here. For better or for worse, this little shit loves finders crispy pancakes and I will live you. I tell that story because I think the message of that story is it really doesn't take very long for a place to become home. And it really, really gets my back up when reform are in places like the Valleys, telling the people in the Valleys that immigration is the problem. Immigration is the reason we have such a distinct culture in the Valleys and I cannot stand it. Please, please, please. Especially if you are from the Valleys. Please talk to everyone you know, make sure they are registered to vote, especially if they are young. Anyone 16 or over can vote. Please, please engage them now because it is so important. And please, please, please let them know that if they do not vote or if they do vote reform, I will set my nanashila on them. You've been so amazing. I've been pre.

[Deborah Frances White]

Thank you so much. Isn't she brilliant? Please welcome back to the stage Kiri Pritchard McLean. Did you enjoy the first half, Kiri?

[Marad]

Yeah, I really did, yeah. And I had a pizza in the interval.

[Deborah Frances White]

A whole vegan pizza just ordered for Kiri. She never stops working. Even when she's eating, she never stops the goodness doesn't stop for one minute.

[Marad]

No. Even my snacks are activists.

[Deborah Frances White]

We've come to a very exciting part of the show because we're joined now by two of the candidates in the upcoming elections. Our first guest represented south west Wales since 2021, and with your help, she'll continue to do so. She's plied spokesperson on social justice, it's Charette Williams. Yes. And joining her, hoping to stop reform from getting control of Cardiff, Penarth from the Green Party, it's Tessa Marshall. Thank you so much, both of you for joining us. We really, really appreciate it.

[Charette Williams]

Can I just put you right, because the Senate dissolved last week. Yes, it dissolved. And so I'm no longer the Ms. For South Wales West. I am now the lead candidate for. Wait for it.

[Priya Hall]

Yes.

[Charette Williams]

Oh, I think I've got the coolest name. Constituency.

[Deborah Frances White]

Oh, no, I'm so sorry.

[Charette Williams]

I'm still a spokesperson for some.

[Deborah Frances White]

That wasn't on my clipboard, but I'm quite pleased in a way that it wasn't because the chances of me saying it correct was so much less high than the chances of me saying South Wales west, which now I even fucked that up. So szoneed you were in the Senate, but everybody has to resign before the election. That's how it works. So now we need to get you elected again. Can you just tell us a little bit about yourself, because we know you're the spokesperson on social justice. Can you give us a little flavour of who you are?

[Charette Williams]

Yes. Well, I grew up in the Valleys in South East Wales, come from a mining family, so my mother and father both grew up in poverty. I was the first generation of my family to go to university and became a journalist. And I've heard you speak before about the power of the arts and empathy. And I studied literature in university in Aberystwyth University. Same places as Zach, not at the same time. And I became a journalist. I was a journalist with BBC Wales in Cardiff alongside our leader, Gina Piorwerth, who was also a journalist there at the time. And I think I've always been interested in people's stories and walking in other people's shoes. And that's why I think the arts are so important. And one of the things I'm really proud that we're gonna. Because Wales has one of the lowest budgets on arts in the whole of Europe. Although, as you heard earlier, we are such a talented musical nation and, you know, it creates that empathy, doesn't it, that we so need. The word for culture in Welsh is duwyliant. Which literally means an unangering or an unwilding. And I think we need a bit of that now. So, yeah, so I just fell into politics after being a community activist, really, really interested in people, had children, no childcare at the time, couldn't afford it, so dropped out of the labor market, kept my hand in a little bit with some arts reviewing, bit journalism, and just went wild in the community, supporting every campaign I could. And, yeah, just kind of was asked then I was inspired to really get in Plyke Cymru by Leanne Wood, who was a radical feminist socialist leader. And, yeah, was asked to get more active, became more active in elected politics and was really fortunate then to be elected in 2021 and had the best job ever of speaking on social justice, which is basically why I'm in politics.

[Deborah Frances White]

Wow. Well done, Shona. Thank you so much. Tessa, tell us about you.

[Priya Hall]

Yes.

[Tessa Marshall]

So I'll introduce myself. I'm a 29 year old woman, I'm deaf, I'm disabled and I'm queer as well. And I.

[Marad]

Not enough. That's homophobic.

[Priya Hall]

Yeah.

[Tessa Marshall]

Thank you. I'm from Cardiff, I grew up in Whitchurch. I've lived all over the place. Thank you to the private rental system, which we know and love. What really got me into politics was the fact that I had an abortion when I was 15 years old and I realized, oh, shit, like, actually, if I lived in any part of Ireland or indeed any other countries around the world, I wouldn't have been able to access that form of health care. And so for the last 15 years of my life, I've been a community activist. I've supported campaigns against, well, often against things, because I think that's kind of the culture that we've been in for a long time with austerity, with growing fascism. And, you know, we've had protesters like 40 Days for Life protesting in Cardiff, so counter protesting them, Counter protesting literal fascists when I was at university in Kent, actually, and then kind of deciding that I needed to know more about devolution, I needed to get more involved in Cardiff and local politics. And I did a master's in international law and politics and since then I've been working in policy and public affairs, so focus on the Senate, looking at the environment, at breast cancer and at sports. So I've really, really been active in the community in Cardiff and across Wales, trying to work to make this country a better place. Because truly we're struggling here in this country, one in five species are at risk of extinction. In Wales. The most likely person in Wales to live in poverty is a child under the age of four. And we have some truly horrendous cancer waiting times. We have some truly awful education outcomes. And it actually doesn't have to be like this. It can be better. And I believe this is Sana. There's the way that we can make things better.

[Deborah Frances White]

If you win, what are you hoping to achieve?

[Tessa Marshall]

How long do we have? One of the things that is really close to my heart is making sure that we restore nature in Wales.

[Priya Hall]

We.

[Deborah Frances White]

Is that what's drawn you to the Green Party?

[Tessa Marshall]

Partly, yes. I was involved in the Save the Northern Meadows campaign in 2020, which is a campaign that I started to save a local green space. Unfortunately, we weren't successful. And you can actually see cranes on that building site now from many places in Cardiff. But, you know, also the policies around social justice, recognising that environmental justice is social justice, we can't, you know, in terms of the environment, the lack of healthy homes is an environmental injustice. We have some of the most oldest and the moldiest housing stock in the whole of the UK here in Cardiff.

[Marad]

Don't want to brag.

[Tessa Marshall]

I'm showing off now and, you know, like, that is an environmental injustice. So making sure that we use the next Zenith to take action to resolve the environmental injustices. The fact that, you know, we've got 60% of the rivers in Wales are in, quote, unfavorable, so bad condition, you know, all of these things, they're all connected. And the fact that, you know, we can't get a hospital appointment, that's connected to that as well, because we're just not investing in our communities, we're not investing in our environment and we're not investing in our health. And that is absolutely something that I want to use the Senate to change.

[Priya Hall]

This episode is brought to you by.

[Marad]

Prime Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories, and the book to screen favorites you've already read twice off campus, Elle every year after the Love Hypothesis, Sterling Point and more Slow burns, second chances, chemistry you can

[Charette Williams]

feel through the screen.

[Marad]

Your next obsession is waiting. Watch only on Prime. So if we remove the threat of reform, and this isn't just, you know, I know this whole show is kind of oppositional, but what would be your, let's say, top two things you would see as a priority, Immediate priority. Charlotte, let's start with you.

[Charette Williams]

Yeah, it's very hard to remove that threat, but I've been Campaigning on and leading on the policy development on universal free childcare in Wales. Again, we don't want to brag, but we have the some of the most expensive, if not the most expensive child care in the whole of the uk. We know what that does to gender equality, we know what that does to those children who are under four who have the highest rates of child poverty. And we've got one of the highest rates of child poverty in the UK also, and it's also set to rise in spite of lifting the long overdue lifting of the two child cap. We cannot have a nation which has a law. We have a law, believe it or not, the well Being of Future Generations act, which requires ministers of the Welsh government to consider future generations when they're making law, when making policy. And yet. So what's going on? So that's the my biggest priority. If we get elected, if Plaid Cymru are leading that government, we are going to roll out 20 hours of free childcare for 48 weeks a year for all families. Because at the moment there's a cliff edge. Somebody described it once as a football with lots of now lumps added onto it. And it just doesn't roll. It doesn't work for families, doesn't work for women, doesn't work for children. So I want to put that right. So that is one of my main priorities. The other thing I've done during my time in the Senate is chair the Cross Party group on human rights. And Carol was talking earlier, wasn't she, about those threat to human rights. And we know that if Farage got in, I'm going to call him Faraj as well. If Faraj gets in to number 10, then we can kiss goodbye to those laws that protect the most vulnerable and minoritized people in our society, as well as the Welsh language right, minority language rights, cultural rights, all kinds of rights, and they do actually apply to Wales. Those powers are not devolved to us, but we can incorporate those UN conventions, those treasured, precious UN conventions into Welsh law. And we were going to bring forward in Plai Cymru a Human Rights Act, Wales law, a bill in order to protect our citizens.

[Marad]

Tessa, what are your two. What have you got in the crosshairs for you?

[Tessa Marshall]

So I'm going to be a little bit cheeky and I'm going to do three, but love it. So the first is housing rent freeze immediately, bring the cost of living down straight away like we can't cope. It's outrageous what people are paying for their rent, then retrofit as well, in terms of housing, making sure that our homes are actually fit for human habitation. My brother at the moment is living in a house with single glazed windows and is paying like £700amonth for the privilege. So that is actually driving his costs up in terms of his energy bills. We can't control the international energy market, which is obviously driven by oil and gas. So we need to actually give people in Wales the power to control their energy, use themselves, put solar on their roof, make sure their houses are properly insulated and make sure their windows are all double glazed. Like, this is just basic stuff that should be happening anyway and it's not in Wales. The second thing is laying the foundation for the future. You know, we truly are a nation where wealth is just extracted and I'm so, so sick of it. Like, we don't have control over policing and justice, we don't have control over broadcasting, we don't have control over research and development, we don't have control over water. Like all of these areas could actually bring money into Wales and create a really strong foundational economy. And the final thing is challenging reform, challenging the far right whenever they use the Senate to say something transphobic, homophobic, racist, sexist, because they cannot be allowed to use our national Parliament for their hatefulness. It's absolutely vile. And if I'm in the Senate, I will be directly challenging them at every opportunity.

[Deborah Frances White]

Thank you, Tessa. And that brings us to the audience questions. So we'd like to welcome back out Carol Vorderman and also the computer with the questions on.

[Marad]

They're really good, we'll be going through them. There's some double up, so we're trying to amalgamate them. So we're covering everything, but thank you so much, they're great. Here she is.

[Carol Vorderman]

So I've been revising. It's so bloody complicated, this system.

[Marad]

Well, let's talk about that. Let's start by talking about, because we have this Senate elections, is a new voting system. Give me two. If you are confident about how it works, great. Give me a cheer if you're not quite sure what is happening with your vote and what it counts for. Okay, I think slightly politely, slightly more, is because there's more of you than that and you're being quiet because you don't want to cheer about the one where you say you don't know and look thick but you're amongst friends, because I'm not totally fucking sure. Would anyone. Does anyone feel like they can absolutely nail the new voting system so a child could Like Sean. Ed, you're nodding.

[Charette Williams]

Okay, so we've had this voting system before, right? So I was elected on this voting system because it was used for the regional vote. We used to have two ballot papers because we had 40 constituencies, 40 members that were elected first past the post. So that's the biggest pile of votes. Then we have 20 members, regional members, who were elected on this Dehont proportional system. And basically what it means is the parties, or you can vote for your party, you have one ballot paper, you put one cross against the party you want to vote for, and then all those votes are counted up in each super constituency. In each super constituency. So they are then counted up. And then a formula, a mathematical formula. I know I. Mr. Dehont, I feel

[Carol Vorderman]

I need a whiteboard and a sharp. That's what I mean.

[Charette Williams]

But basically. So say now, you. You know, all the parties have these votes and they. The one. The party with the biggest amount of votes, they. They get the first member and there are six members, and then that you. You do one plus one, and then you halve the number of votes, right?

[Carol Vorderman]

Yeah.

[Charette Williams]

And then you. So they got one, but you give it another one, and then you. You divide their number of votes by 2.

[Marad]

My child is a.

[Charette Williams]

And you move on, and you see who's got the biggest amount of votes then. And so it goes on and on until six are elected. But it basically means that it better reflects how everybody votes, because you can get elected on first past the post with 30%. So 70% of the votes cast may not be for the victor. So it's absolutely unfair. And so this isn't exactly what we wanted in Plaid Cymru. We wanted Esteban tv, which is far more proportional. But the Labour Party, who were, you know, we had to have two thirds of the Senate to get this through, to get this Senate reform through. Labour Party thought that this. Because this does favor larger parties, and at the time, of course, they were. They thought they'd be in a larger part, they'd be one of the larger parties. Of course, it's come back to bite them on the bum now.

[Carol Vorderman]

So it could be that any of the smaller parties who. Who don't get anything around 12, 13, 14% might end up with no seats. Am I correct?

[Priya Hall]

Yes.

[Tessa Marshall]

But it also means that it's very important that if you support a smaller party like Irene, perhaps you do vote for them because it's proportional, and there's that opportunity to get that sixth seat in many, many constituencies for the smallest party.

[Marad]

So it's Not.

[Carol Vorderman]

It's basically.

[Marad]

It's not a wasted vote. Yeah, thank you, Elaine, for that question,

[Carol Vorderman]

because it can, and this is important because people think PR and I love proportional representation, but there are all these different systems, as you rightly said, that you think out of 100% of the votes, that if you get 40% of the vote, you get 40% of the seats. That isn't exactly how it is. The latest. If I may just read this out using a system, the latest YouGov prediction. Where's it gone now? Said that plide would get 43 seats. Am I right? Yeah, yeah. Plyde on 43, Reform on 30, Labour on 12 and the Greens on 10. Using this system. That is the current prediction.

[Deborah Frances White]

Let's see if we can get.

[Carol Vorderman]

The Greens need to get a certain percentage in order to be in there to play the game, basically.

[Charette Williams]

And the further those fifth and sixth seats become cheaper, so the margins become very, very small. So a couple hundred votes by the end of that system can make the difference. And when you think those 16 constituencies, number five and six seat, that could add up to 32 seats.

[Deborah Frances White]

Right.

[Charette Williams]

So that could be the difference between government and not being government. Yes.

[Deborah Frances White]

I'm just concerned that we might only have time for one question if we keep going, just because we have to get out of the theater. So I'm just going to say, do, do, do, do, do. Do

[Carol Vorderman]

you know how that was written to Alan Hawkshaw, who read that.

[Deborah Frances White]

But it's not one of the questions either here, Carol, back in 1982.

[Carol Vorderman]

No, it's interesting because he'd forgotten that he had to write a it for this new show called Countdown for this new channel called Channel 4. And he was rung up by the head of music at Yorkshire Television and he said, alan, you haven't given us the music. So he literally wrote it on the toilet and it was, doo, doo, doo,

[Priya Hall]

doo, doo, doo, doo, doo.

[Deborah Frances White]

Men can get away with anything, can't they? We're gonna go quite fast on the rest of these because we've got 130 questions and now no minutes. So how do we.

[Marad]

Can I just quickly. This one says not a question, but a small plug. Why MTA. Cardiff's giving any under 25 year old who registers to vote Ben and Jerry's ice cream on the 20th of April. So there you go, there's an incentive. Now Kat's asked, what are the top three facts to try and convince someone not to vote? Reform. A lot of people have asked what is a practical thing we can say to People, whether you're knocking on doors or speaking to people, you know, speed round, speed round. Go, Tessa.

[Tessa Marshall]

Nigel Farage is literally never in Parliament and I'm willing to put money on the reform not turning up to the sand either.

[Marad]

Great. Sean had.

[Charette Williams]

Well, I'm going to get a bit more serious. I mean, you know, we talk about all the awful stuff. Carol Illustrated, all that awful stuff that we can expect if reform get into power. There's a real threat here to Wales and not just to the values that we hold dear as feminists and as socialists, but also as, you know, as a nationalist. We could lose our Senate. You know, they could absolutely undermine the Senate. So it's brought. There's a bigger fight here in a way, because Farage isn't going to do away with Westminster or Parliament. They could, you know, the abolishers, as we used to be, abolish the Welsh Assembly Party in the last. You said it in the last. In the last election. They've disappeared now. I wonder where they've gone. Gone. You know, they may not all be abolishers in reform, but all the abolishers are in reform and they would absolutely be able to get rid of our Parliament. So our voice, our nation, our culture, our polity is at stake.

[Priya Hall]

How would you feel,

[Carol Vorderman]

Vic?

[Marad]

Go on.

[Carol Vorderman]

I was.

[Deborah Frances White]

Newsflash. News flash. Orban's been ousted after 16 years of power mongering. The far right is not a foregone conclusion. You can fight and you can get them out.

[Carol Vorderman]

Yes, people, power turn up to vote.

[Priya Hall]

That's what they did.

[Carol Vorderman]

Fantastic.

[Marad]

Vicky Juaretag. Fair play. This does feel like it's aimed at me and I respect that. How do you stop the whole the other side are idiots attitudes? It just breeds division. I concur, but I would like to show my working here, one of the reasons why we sat on this stage is you and I were talking and you and I as well. And this isn't to convince you people in the room to vote Green or plied. Chances are you're probably doing it. Chances are you're not a reform voter in this room. This, for me was about trying to galvanize people to get out there, like I saw in my constituency, knock on doors. If you are able to, if you have the time, if you bought a ticket to this, maybe you've got the money. If you haven't got the time, maybe you can donate to one of these parties. We can't be passive. When we're passive, when the vote turnout is low, they win. When we are Active. So I'm. Apologies if you felt that I was being divisive. I don't actually give a shit.

[Priya Hall]

But.

[Marad]

But the reason I'm doing this is because I can't. Like, I don't have the time. This is one of the things I can do. So me showing up here is a thing that I think I can do, which is to try and get us all out there.

[Deborah Frances White]

And can I just say, I. I mean, I'm always the voice for Build a bridge, because I do think we need to build bridges and people unusually acting from a place of fear or hurt or worry or concern for themselves. I wrote a book called Six Conversations We're Scared to have. And the final chapter is about how to talk to people. It's all about division and fragmentation. And it's just come out on paperback. That could be helpful to some of you. It's important that we do ask questions. I had someone troll me recently and I saw his page and I thought, he doesn't seem like the kind of guy. So I DM'd him and said, just out of interest, why did you say that? Because you don't seem like that kind of guy. And he said, I'm not. Normally it's a bit out of character. And we got talking politically, we had a lot more in common. And then he said to me, do you know what? I used to be quite left wing. And I really kind of thought, you know, he sort of like this part of the Internet. And he said, do you have any more progressive left wing journalists I could follow? I think I need to get back into sort of seeing a more broader view. And that just came out of me going, you don't seem like the type. Just, can I. I'm just curious. Rather than going, you're an asshole. So I think those things can work. More questions.

[Marad]

Well, this is. It leads on to what Gemma was saying. How can we combat so much online outside interference? Slash algorithms by the far right that preys on people. Carol, have you got views on that?

[Carol Vorderman]

Well, there is a way of combating it because we had it before the last election. All the likes, all the comments, all the storying on Instagram or on Facebook. I'm not on Twitter anymore. I don't know anyone here on Twitter. No cesspit, but literally everything that you do supports people. And I talked to lovely Hannah Spencer, who was with you a fair bit, and she found that, you know, when the Daily Mail were attacking her, for instance, quite vehemently, even about what she wears. I mean, really. Bloody hell. They're awful poison on our society, the Daily Mail. But all of those messages matter. People read them. The people that you want to do well, you know, whether it be you, Tessa, or you, Sinead, you know, it matters, doesn't it? And it really, really helps. Even if it's just liking something and repeating it somewhere else, it helps, does it not? That's what I would say.

[Charette Williams]

That's how you fight.

[Marad]

What about you, Tessa?

[Tessa Marshall]

I mean, I would say the most important thing is to sort of go out into your community. Most of the time when you're door knocking, when you're speaking to people out at events or just, you know, kind of out and about in the park, people are not as aggressive as they are online. And truly, like, it's quite scary to go out and do the door knocking when you're literally getting that barrage of hate. I had a little taste of what Hannah had the other day when my. Yeah, when one of my videos kind of took off and on the back of that, I actually had a death threat. And I'm like this random person just literally in my comments, you know, and it's like, actually they're trying to intimidate us and they're trying to scare us by using bots most of the time. But there are real people in that. I actually, yeah, know, my uncle was one of those people who was in Hannah's comments and I messaged him and I said, you know, she's not married to a millionaire. And he said, oh, don't. Don't talk to me about politics. Okay, Steve. But yeah, I'm definitely going out speaking to people in your community because it's not as bad as you think.

[Charette Williams]

Shauna. Yeah, I just want to say quickly, it is speaking to people I've had on the doors. You'll be knocking doors now for nearly a year. And people will repeat the stuff you see on Facebook, all the lazy, stereotypical awful stuff about anti politics stuff, you know, anti woke stuff, anti everything that I hold dear. And if you talk to them and try and interrogate their argument a little bit, they will come around. I remember a woman on the door the other day said to me, oh, you're all the same. You're all got your old pigs in the truck, all in it for the money. And I said, well, you know, we do. You know what we do. And you know what? You're only there two days a week. You don't do anything. And so I just started to say, well, I can tell you I was a member in the Senate and this is what I do, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he said about all the work I do in the community, helping people with, you know, come to me for help, all this stuff, we pass laws, we scrutinize this, we. Blah, blah, blah. And she said, oh, I don't mean you, love, you seem really nice,

[Cardiff Super Choir]

you

[Charette Williams]

know, and I'm sure, you know, we had a nice conversation afterwards about the things. And, you know, it comes back to what you were saying, really, Deborah, it's about, there's no coincidence that Faraj went to Port Talbot and he went to Merthyr. Those people have been let down by the political system. So we mustn't just say, oh, you know what, they're all thick and they don't know what they're doing. It really is about making sure that we do talk to them, we do empathize with their situation. But as you were saying earlier, say, you know, reform are not your friends.

[Carol Vorderman]

No, no, then

[Marad]

I totally agree. But honestly, the guy I know is thick. I am going to keep mentioning that. I think there's really good advice there about misinformation. There's an anonymous question here. How then do you encourage people who are incredibly disenfranchised or who aren't interested in, in politics, how do you change hearts and minds there, Tessa?

[Tessa Marshall]

I mean, it's a huge question because, like, I think everyone is different and, like everyone's experiences are different. I know Zoe in Hackney, another brilliant Green activist who is campaigning to be the mayor of Hackney, spoke to someone on the doorstep who just didn't even want to take a leaflet because she was just like, well, politics doesn't do anything for me. And that is what we need to change. We need to make politics do stuff for people again. People only know austerity, people only know underinvestment and being underserved, waiting weeks and weeks just for a hospital appointment, you know, not being able to afford their bills. Actually, we can show with this sanet, with this election, politics can do stuff. Politics can have an impact, actually. And actually, we know that this SANET can go further. The Senate can actually, actually has the powers to put rent controls in place. It actually has the powers to do 1 pound buses, it has the power to insulate your homes. And by showing that politics has the power to make change, we can help people become engaged with politics again. Because, you know, one thing that I like to say is, you know, people will vote on like X Factor because all that I'm a celeb, because they think it'll make a difference, you know, and like, so it's like, why. Why don't you vote in?

[Marad]

So you're going to do I'm a celeb, Is that what you're saying?

[Tessa Marshall]

Maybe in a few years.

[Marad]

Shonette, what do you think? People who just totally, like, it's not. It's not me, it's left me behind.

[Charette Williams]

I think again, when you just have conversations with people and say, you know, well, are you happy with the amount of rent you're paying? Are you happy with your. With your energy bills? You know, what are you finding difficult in your life? People are worried about educational standards in Wales. People are worried about, you know, I live in, in the Swansea Valley. Many people work in the university there, My husband works in the university. There's huge redundancies in higher education. We lose that. We lose so much in Wales. So when you start talking to people about this, recognising that they haven't got the head space to be reading every policy document and report and research that comes out, when you explain it in terms of their lives, in terms of their jobs, in terms of their opportunity, in terms of the fact that their kid can't go to a birthday party because they can't afford a presentation. Right. And how that makes them feel as a parent, then, you know, they understand politics can change this. And, you know, I'm proud to say in the last Senate, Plaid Cymru, through negotiation with Labour because they needed the numbers we brought in, free school meals for primary school children made a massive difference.

[Deborah Frances White]

And that's politics. I'm getting, I'm getting the wind up from Stuart. I just want to say thank you so much to everyone who's to going contributed. Carol, do you have a final word there?

[Carol Vorderman]

Well, I just wanted, I just want to say, because there's many women here. Hello, gentlemen. As well. But I, you know, I get out and about in Bristol all the time and the one thing that changed, the young girls who was a hairdresser or someone doing your nails or whatever, they go, oh, I'm not really interested. Not really interested was when I said that James Orr, who was the head of policy for Reform, if reform get interest, you know, if you haven't got a kid, you're going to pay more tax. Childless women are going to pay more tax. And suddenly it's like, what? What do you mean, Carol? I said, that is exactly it. And I showed them the article and I showed them this and. And I think it's about. Because politics is literally everything. It is Literally every bloody thing. It's where you have your baby, where. What happens to your baby? Do you get pregnant? Can you have an abortion? Look at what's happened in America. All the disgusting stuff that is happening, particularly against women in America. And if you choose wrongly, believe me, old Poundland Trump Farage will be repeating everything that they are doing in America. He really will.

[Deborah Frances White]

Can I have a big round of applause for Charlie Williams, Tessa Marshall, Kiri Pritchard McLean, Carol Vorderman, Maret, Priya Hall. Please meet Zainab Akbar up the back, because you will be able to help her. Knock on doors. Whatever your constituency is, wherever you are, see whatever the party you support is, look into tactical voting and whatever party you support, whether that be plied, whether that be the Greens, whether that be Labour, whether that be the Lib Dems, whether that be another party of your choice that you feel is going to. Why are you saying you don't have Lib Dems here? Why are you saying that?

[Charette Williams]

No, okay, don't go any further.

[Deborah Frances White]

No, no, no. Whether that be reform. No, not whether that be reform. You just get. Get involved in some way, shape or form, however that could be. That could be donating five quid, it could be giving an hour of your time, it could be giving up an afternoon, it could be taking your kids to find out what's going on, but just get involved. It could even be visiting people in your WhatsApp groups and saying, hey, how are you going to vote? Because this concerns me talking to relatives. There's lots and lots of older people who absolutely hate reform and ask them, can they talk to people their own age? So let's not write off old people and go, oh, they're going to be. They're all going to be voting like this. They're not. There's plenty of people here tonight who are over 65 who care deeply about this stuff and we've got to find ways of building those bridges. You have been absolutely incredible as a. You're a wonderful, wonderful audience. Thank you so much for coming out. We have a real treat for you in store to close this show. I am extremely excited to welcome to the stage now the Cardiff Super Choir.

[Cardiff Super Choir]

The world turning inside out yeah. And floating around in ecstasy so don't stop me now, don't stop me now Having a good time, having a good time Like a tiger to fight the Lord, You don't stop me now I'm having such a good time Good time I'm having a ball don't stop me now Want to Have a good time Just give me a call don't stop me Having a good time don't stop me Having a good time I don't want to stop at all I on my way to Mar Unavisible I have a satellite I'm out of control I'm a. Sky 200 degrees that's why they call me Mr. Mar I want to make a supersonic woman of you

[Carol Vorderman]

don't

[Cardiff Super Choir]

stop me, don't stop me don't stop me hey, hey, hey don't stop me don't stop me don't stop me don't stop me have a good time Good time Don't stop me don't stop me. Sa. A good time Good time I'm having alone don't stop me now we want to have a good time Just give me a call don't stop me I'm not having a good time don't stop me I'm not having a good time I don't want to stop at home don't stop me.

[Deborah Frances White]

Big round of applause to your own part of Super Choir. That was absolutely a brilliant, brilliant way to close the show, guys. Thank you so, so much. A big round of applause for all of our performers tonight and your good self. Don't stop us now, Wales. Don't stop us now. We can do what Hungary did. We can keep reform out. We can keep the Senate. Thank you so much. We've been the Guilty Feminist with the Road to Gilead Show. We hope to see you again soon. Good night. You have been listening to the Guilty Feminist with me, Deborah Frances White, guest co host, Kiri Pritchard McLean, and our very special guests, Priya Hall, John Ed Williams, Tessa Marshall and Carol Vorderman, with music from Marad and Cardiff Super Choir. The Guilty Feminist theme tune was composed by Mark Hodge. The producer was Tom Szalinski for the Spontaneity Shop. Thanks to Gina Dicio, Stuart Arnold, Ned Sedgwick, Zaynab Mohammed, our team at UTA and everyone at New Cardiff Theatre, as well as all of you for listening. For more information about this and other episodes, visit guiltyfeminist.com. You can't reason with the sun. Trust us, we've tried.

[Priya Hall]

This summer, it's time to put that

[Deborah Frances White]

angry ball of fire on mute. Columbia's Omnishade technology is engineered to protect you from the sun's harsh rays that can burn and damage your skin. The sun is relentless, but so is our gear. Level up your [e-mail] to spend more time outside and less time slathering on aloe lotion.

[Priya Hall]

You're welcome.

[Deborah Frances White]

Columbia engineered for whatever.