← The Guilty Feminist
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Hello guilty feminists. I want to talk about something that half the population experiences and the other half should probably understand better gynecological health. Because so many of us grew up with patchy information, some pretty weird myths, and general feeling that we should probably just not talk about it. That's why I'm delighted to tell you about Bloody Powerful the Taboo Busting Guide to Periods, Menopause and Everything in between by Dr. Brooke van der Molen, illustrated by Hazel Mead and published by Cambridge University Press. This book is a warm, clear and genuinely empowering guide to everything you probably didn't get taught in school. From understanding your periods to navigating menopause and all the confusing questions in between. Dr. Brook van der Molen is a practicing gynecology doctor. You might know her online as the OB GYN mum and she answers so many of the questions we've all quite quietly googled at 2am it's also beautifully illustrated by Hazel Mead, which makes the whole thing feel accessible rather than clinical. If you'd like to learn more or give it to someone who deserves better information about their body, visit cambridge.org bloodypowerful and you can get 20% off with the code bloodypowerful20 at checkout. Because knowledge about our bodies shouldn't be taboo, it should be bloody powerful. Get the Ice Cream Love Big Freezer,
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It's by the Peas.
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Some things are really best not to
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put off, like defrosting the freezer or
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if you're a landlord sending a copy of the new government Information sheet to your existing tenants.
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You must do this by 31 May or risk a fine.
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Make sure you're up to date with the new laws.
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Find the information sheet@gov.uk renting hello guilty feminist. I'm so excited to share this brand new Road to Gilead live episode of the Guilty Feminist. I just wanted to let you know before we begin. Our guest is the incredible Adele Zeynep Walton. She has written Logging off the Human Cost of Our Digital World and it's important that I just give you a warning. Adele lost her sister to suicide and how that relates to the digital world will become clear. She talks about it very sensitively. There is nothing graphic or anything like that, but if that's not something you can handle today, then maybe put this on hold for another time. I do hope most of our listeners enjoy it very, very much because it is a really salient wake up call with some incredible stories, including one story about Adele getting to go to Davos and confronting somebody there, which blew me Away. Before the podcast, I wanted to let you know that on the 14th of May, we're back at the Museum of Comedy and our guests are from the Global Human rights group looking at the impact all around the world on the backlash against girls and women's sexual and reproductive health rights and how our rights are under a coordinated, well funded attack. They've done an incredibly comprehensive report on this, so you don't want to miss that. Co host is the incredible Jessica foster. Cue. On the 21st of May, I will be interviewing Rose McGowan, who was very, very instrumental in kicking off the MeToo movement and actually stood up to Harvey Weinstein. That show will be at Charleston, which was the house the Bloomsbury group used, so you can actually use the same loo as Virginia Woolf. It's an absolutely stunning place, so I recommend coming out. It's going to be really lovely. On the 22nd of May, we will be back at the Museum of Comedy with the incredible Alice McCool. I don't know if you saw her recent article in the Byline Times, but she has uncovered a transatlantic network of anti abortion lobbyists using legal challenges and coordinated campaigns to shape NHS policy and challenge bodily autonomy in Britain. That's going to be so important. Do not miss that show if you can possibly make it. Co host the wonderful Felicity Ward. On the 18th of July, we'll be in the Isle of Wight at the Ventnor Fringe Gang. I've never been to the Isle of Wight before, so this is very, very exciting. Brand new, guilty feminist location. And if you're going up to the Edinburgh Fringe or you'd like to go up, we will be there on the 20th to the 23rd of August every night at the Gilded Balloon Theatre. If you'd like to book these shows, go to guiltyfeminist.com click on live shows. If you'd like to know about more shows as they come in, just join our mailing list at the same website. And now on with the podcast. I'm a feminist, but give me a Bill Lawrence sitcom. Ted Lasso Shrinking the Scrubs, reboot and I will cry like a baby every time. I am so easily emotionally manipulated by that man, Bill Lawrence. That man, that white straight CIS man has me wrapped around his little finger. I would crawl over broken glass for that man. I can tell because he would just lead me there with sentimental music and people looking into each other's eyes like this. I'm just. I'm that man's bitch. I am.
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Oh, my God, you're Bill Lawrence's Bitch.
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I'm Bill Lawrence's bitch. That Scrubs reboot, that is breaking my heart. Has anyone seen the latest episode? I can't do spoilers, but my God. Do you know what it makes me upset about, though, is how good the Sex and the City reboot could have been. It just breaks my heart because I'm like, yes, this is it. They're in their 50s because the doctors are in their 50s now. The mentors are older and they're being in this time of life, but we're seeing a new generation also come up underneath them. Why are you not crying? This is amazing stuff. And you've got to just watch this latest episode, if you ever watch Scrubs, the original, because it's going to break your fucking heart. And I do blame Bill Lawrence because I think he's emotionally manipulative. He knows what the fuck he's doing. He can't be that sentimental about everything. He can't be that sentimental about doctors and psychiatrists and footballers. He doesn't even know about soccer. That was totally invented. He is a kind of, like, heartstrings magician. I believe he's Machiavelli.
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So I'm a feminist, but I'm so bad with my finances, like, so bad. And I'm so ditzy with all my finances my entire life, and I've never thought about saving or anything like that. And I was like, oh, my God, I have to get my life together. And then a few months ago, I was. The far right. Tried to sue me. Yeah. For defamation because I said the inside. Violence. And allegedly.
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You said allegedly?
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Allegedly. And I had to, like, suit up and get, like, a fancy corporate lawyer. And then this corporate lawyer was like, okay, well, like, if this goes to the High Court, what do you have? And I was like, what do you mean? And he was like, like, what do you own? Like, you're 30. You're nearly 39. What do you own? I was like, I don't. He's like, how much money do you have in your bank account? I was like, just, like, a few thousand. He's like, that's not money. And then he was like, what do you. But what do you physically own? I was like, I live in my boyfriend's house. He's like, you're not married? I was like, no. He's like, what about your car? I was like, on a car loan? He was like, do you own nothing at 39? I was like, no. And he's like, this is brilliant news. He's like, you're unsuable I was like, yes,
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Sue this manosphere. I got nothing.
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Yeah, you got nothing. Cause I got nothing, bitches. Try sue me till I'll take this high court. So that was my greatest claim to fame. Yeah, I'm a feminist butt. You can't sue me.
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Yeah, listen, we're almost at Armageddon and you've enjoyed every penny you've earned. Yeah. Some people have got loads in the bank and they're just going to be thinking, I wish I'd got that taxi. I wish I'd had another pina colada on that package holiday I couldn't really afford. I just said, no, I can't go on holidays this year. I can't go on holidays this year. I've got to save it. I've got to save it for a pension. Yeah, I'll tell you, tell you where you're going to be spending your retirement. On a raft with an AI robot assistant. Although I used to think that. Now, increasingly, as every day goes past, I go, deborah, who are you kidding? You were going to be the robot's assistant. You will be working for that fucking robot. You will be the human in servitude to the robot. That is what's happening now. Did you know this? Did you know this? Robots are hiring humans. Have you heard about this? Have you heard about this?
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No.
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Yeah. Oh, it's true. So if you've got a bot assistant. So say you're a really, really rich banker or something and you've got a bot assistant. So what it does is it says things like, it knows when you need dry cleaning. It knows when it needs to, you know, let your cleaner in or whatever, all those things. But sometimes there's a job that it can't do because it can't literally go down to the post office and pick up your package. So what it does is it puts an ad on a website and says, human wanted to go and pick up package. And then the humans, true story. Have to outbid each other to get the job. So someone says, I'll do it for 20 quid. And someone says, I'll do it for 18 quid. And someone says, I'll do it. Eventually, someone says, look, I'm desperate, I'll do it for five quid. And the robot goes, you've got the job. So if you wondered where we were in history and why we're here tonight, that's why. I'm a feminist, but I think algorithms are dangerous and manipulative, and yet when someone says, you keep coming up in my Algorithm. I'm like, really? How do I look?
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I'm a feminist, but when I have to go to the doctors and get unchanged, I'm still so apologetic about being naked in front of the doctor. Like, their job is to look at our vaginas and, you know, and inspect. And I know I should be like, my vagina, but instead I just can't. And when the doctor leaves the room, you know, you have to get unchanged. And there's that awkward moment where you're like, what do I do with my knickers? You know, because they come back and you're like, I don't want the doctor to know I have knickers. So I like, you know, they're digging around and scraping cells from your cervical wall, but you're like, what will I do with my knickers? So I still. I'm a feminist, but I still hide my knickers in my shoe before the doctor goes on.
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I'm a feminist and I hate AI. But when someone else. I never use AI. I don't have chatgpt. I don't have any of it. Fuck it. I'm not going there. I'm not outsourcing my brain. I'm not using up water. I won't go there. I'm not doing it. But when someone else asked questions about me in front of me and the answers were flattering, I was like, claude, what's your number? I was so seduced by Claude because he was saying all these great things about me and it was really hard not to take that on board. I was like. And then someone said, you know, you can turn down the flattering setting. It wants to flatter you. I was like, oh, no, don't do that.
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I'm a feminist, but this is a really bad one. But I was like, I have to. Okay, I'm a feminist, but I get off on, like, stab bests when I.
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What?
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Yeah, I know. It's so bad. It's so bad. It's so bad.
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I'm sorry. You've misunderstood the tone of the shit.
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No.
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Yes, the tone of the bit.
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And I'm a pacifist and all this, and look, I'm anti far right, all that sort of stuff. But, like, there's. There's. In Dublin, we have this terrible tram service called the Lewis, which means speed. And you could probably walk faster than it. So it's crazy. But there's met the security on it. They're all, like, from Lithuania, and they wear just these Stab vests. And every time I just. I Can't help myself just looking at them. My partner's here as well. He told me not to say this, but
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I can see why you.
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I want him to wear some. Look, I want John to wear some riot gear in the bedroom, but I just.
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Wow. Yeah. Riot kink. What about a riot shield? Would that be good for the King?
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Yeah, I'd like a little shield.
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But then where does this stop? Like a hose?
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No, no, no, like a.
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Just a horse. She's open to a horse. Aoife's partner. I don't know what your partner'?
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John.
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Oh, my God.
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Poor him.
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John, she's open to a horse.
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A horse with a shield.
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Yeah. I just can now imagine you coming into this bedroom in a flat, in full riot gear, on a horse. Mounted. Not mounted on the horse, but mounted. Doesn't matter, doesn't matter.
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Doesn't matter. I'll take it
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live from the Museum of Comedy in London, the Spontaneta Shop presents the Guilty Feminist. With me, Deborah Frances White, guest co host Aoife Dunn, and our very special guest, Adele Walton, talking about the algorithm. Hello, guilty feminists. It's Friday night. It's Friday night. Other people tonight, they're in a pub slamming down the tequila shots, tops off. But not us. We're doing feminism. That's right, my friends. That's right. Now there are some people, it's a sold out show, but I noticed that there are four chairs empty in the front row. Presumably. Now, two options, maybe they're such good feminists. They were on the way here, they saw a feminist emergency, perhaps two men overstepping the mark in their conversation. They stopped to she laborate, explained to those men why they needed to be more feminist. Maybe that's why they're not here. That could be possible, right? Yes, absolutely. Perhaps they saw a parade, a feminist parade, and they thought feminism needs us and they followed the parade. Maybe it was an underserved, understaffed march. Could have been that they thought, this march needs help. We can't be at the Guilty Feminist when we could be doing, you know, balls out, active. Balls out's not the right word, is it? Tits out. Tits out. Tits out. Tits out. Seems like the only not absolutely obscene thing to say here, doesn't it? Sort of. We could be doing some tits out, active feminism. Something like that could have happened. Or, and I suspect more likely because it's Friday night in London. They are fair weather feminists who were on the wrong side of London and they looked up into the sky and went, the sun. The sun. If you're listening internationally. That's something that happens here only three times a year. Now, the rulies in. If it is physically warm enough for you to stand outside in London, outside a crowded pub with a pint, breathing in the fumes of passing taxi cabs and buses, you must. It's council zoning, otherwise you will be arrested. Oh, I've forgotten whether there are meant to be cameras here. I'm meant to be doing as well. Is that camera there? This camera here? Can they pick me up tomorrow? I like getting closer to the audience. Some of them may not like that,
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but
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it's very difficult to ask them all for consent. Maybe that's why there's no people in the front row. Maybe these people came last time, had bought tickets for this show also, and I came too close to them. That's possible. That's possible. So listen, it's Friday night. I'm delighted that you've come out for a ratio of comedy and feminism that we hope you find in your favor. Now, that will be different for different people. Just give us a cheer if you're more feminist than guilty. Give us a cheer if you're more guilty than feminist. See, I knew that because we're in a museum of comedy and it's Friday night. Now, there are other venues where the whole audience would go more feminist than guilty, but not this one. We're underground. We're in a crypt. People have plastic cups of beer. It is very much the more guilty than feminist ratio. But listen, I think we all oscillate different days. Days. And so today, I think we can only ask today. There have been days in all our lives, moments in all of our lives, where we've been more guilty than feminist and more feminist than guilty. Hello, sir. I don't want to assume gender. I knew I was in a dangerous spot. Yes. Are you, in fact a man? Yes. You've sat alone in the front row. It's interesting. Moved forward because of the absence of. Of the people on the other side of London. Oh, I see. You did us a favour by coming into the front row. You're a kind man. Oh, that's really lovely, sir. What I admire is the confidence of white men. Because if I were at a men's rights activist conference and I thought, I'll come and check this out, and there'd been a big crowd of people I think probably hide somewhere at the back to see how this goes. If there had been, for any reason. And again, sold out show. We don't know why, an empty area right in the front row, in fact, sort of it being a comedy club, sort of under a spotlight. I'm going to go so far as to say, this man is more spotlit than I am. I would just not have the courage to sit there. I'd think, no, that's for somebody else. That's for somebody else. That's what I thought. But I love. No, I'm not saying be less confident. I'm saying I wish I were as confident as you. How did you get this way? What was the. It took a long time. Took a long time. Took a long time. Can I ask what you do? I'm a PR and copywriter. A PR and copywriter. You've got a little notebook. Are you taking notes on this? Just out of interest? I might be. Feel like he's reviewing it now and I'm losing a star. Every time I speak to him, he's making little notes. He's making little notes. It's fine, it's fine. He adores me. He adores me. We've got a real energy going. This is just sort of a screwball comedy for him. This is Katharine Hepburn and Spencer Tracy. If you're young, don't worry about it now. I mean, I'm not as old as them. I was dead. I was. I wasn't dead. I was. They were dead before I came along. Just to be clear. I wasn't dead. Oh, wonderful. Oh, look. What's your name? Darren has written wonderful. Just a one word review there. Wonderful, wonderful. Darren has written wonderful. You're now our favorite man. It used to be David Attenborough. Now it's Darren. There's usually one or two good ones. Eddie, just give us a cheer if you are in fact a man. If you are a cisgendered straight man. Oh, lovely. Excellent. I do notice the more men we book as guests, the more men are in the audience because representation matters. This is where we are now. But we've. We have had some men lately. We've had some men just because of things like, I just want to know who the biggest expert is in something. Because it used to be I do. I do. And mostly it's a woman, obviously, but sometimes it is a man. And then I'm just like, we need to know how to fight the far right. Because these shows are all under the Road to Gilead banner. The ones here at the Museum of Comedy and other ones we're doing in bigger venues. And that is because I fear the Road to Gilead is what we're on. And I would like to get off it. Has anyone seen America lately? Holy fuck. And Reform is very much in bed with MAGA and saying similar things. And have you seen that they've now hired James Orr? Do you all know who James Orr is? Oh, oh, a very scary Cambridge academic. I'm making little finger bunnies in the air because it feels more like he's, have you seen the Exorcist? It's really scary. And he says very scary things and he really is not a fan of women or us having any rights. I'm sure we've got a use, but I don't know what he thinks it is and I don't think it's a use that I'd like to be put to. And that's how it very much feels when you listen to him. So we're doing these shows called the Road to Gilead because obviously we want to comment on what's happening globally through maga, but also very much stop what is happening here. We want to keep out Reform and also any of their other friends, like Restore or Recant or whatever the other ones are. There's a lot of those far right ones. Now. I have joked recently that I'd like to start a couple more far right parties so that when far right voters go into the ballot booth, they go, which one of these is mine? Is that refresh? Is it reneg? I don't know. I don't know. It's definitely not remain. That was a terrible word, wasn't it? That was a terrible, terrible word. I honestly think a big reason that we lost that, apart from, you know, all the whole evil of the algorithm, which we're talking about tonight, Cambridge Analytica and all of that horrible stuff. Was the word remain. Because what does that really mean? Remain? Like, it's like remainders, it's like leftovers. Leave is clear. I'm going to leave now. But if someone says, I'm going to leave, you don't say, oh, darling, please don't leave. Darling, please remain with me. Remain with me, darling, remain with me forever. I promise to you that I will remain with you till death do us part. No, it's not romantic, it's not sexy. It doesn't feel like a real word. Anyway, so tonight we're going to talk about the algorithm and how the far right use it. But firstly, I think my husband is having an affair with Alexa. Because when I ask Alexa things, she says, I'm sorry, I didn't quite get that. I didn't hear that. I'm not quite sure how to help with that. Sorry, I don't have an answer for that. Like, every time one of these. Sorry, I can't do that. What can you do, Alexa? Sorry, I'm having trouble. Please try in a little while. But when he asks her the same things right in front of me, she says things like, I totally know what you mean. I was just going to say that myself. You and I think very alike. Do you think we were lovers in another life? I like what you've done with your hair. It probably won't rain in London tomorrow. There's only a 25% chance. That's when he asks specifically about the rain. And one time I came in and I swear I came into the kitchen, I swear this is true. She was saying, would you like me to use your name? And he said, yes, yes. My husband said, yes. He didn't know I was there, to be fair. Then do you know what she said? She said, say your name slowly three times. It was at this point I revealed myself. I was just like, should I leave you two alone? And that's why I hate AI now. It's also other stuff, like the impending end of the world as we know it. Yes, I really do. I'm really, really terrified of AI it's not all about Alexa, but that's a big part of it. And speaking of talking robots, Melania Trump gave a speech today, and that reminded me of talking robots, because recently she demonstrated a talking robot that she felt could teach children at school. I'm not saying she's a talking robot, but you obviously thought that. Come on, you're a feminist, butt. And anyway, in this speech today, she said, epstein didn't introduce me to my husband. I met him at a 1998 party. But she left out he was actually someone else's husband then. That woman was probably grateful to get rid of him, though, let's be honest. It's sort of past the baton on at that point, isn't it? I think being Trump's wife is a bit like jury duty in America. You've just. There's a certain sort of woman who's given a number and has to do it at some point. To be clear. She went on in her speech, to be clear, I never had a relationship. I'm trying not to do the accent, but it's really difficult because I don't like doing other people's accents, because that sounds like I'm mocking their accent. But it's really hard to talk in Melania Trump's cadence and not do an accent. So If I do an accent, it's incredibly accidental. To be clear, I never had a relationship with Epstein or his accomplice, Maxwell. My email reply to Maxwell cannot be categorized as anything more than casual correspondence. Is what she said in the speech. My polite reply to her email doesn't amount to anything more than a trivial note. A trivial note that said, give me a call. You're amazing. Jeffrey's amazing. Love, Melania. But sure, but sure, but sure. Now, the only thing that made me think she hadn't written this speech herself, the only thing was she was supposed to say, I have never been legally accused or convicted of a crime in connection with Epstein's sex trafficking. But instead she said, I have never been legally accused or convinced of a crime. Now, convinced of a crime, that's not a thing, is it? That's not a thing. If you'd written that yourself and understood it and misread it, you'd say, did I say convinced? I meant convicted. And you'd just say, I meant to. I didn't. Wouldn't you? Wouldn't you? You'd go back on that. You'd say, convinced of a crime. Convicted of a crime. You would Cut. Do you see what I'm saying? Do you see what I'm saying? I don't think she wrote it herself. I don't think she knew. I think she was told. She had to read. Is possible that she is Alexa? I'm not saying she's Alexa, but I'm saying if I find out my husband's having an affair with Melania Trump, I'm gonna be very angry. I would much rather come home and find him fucking the actual Alexa now. I mean, I wouldn't be pleased about that. I'm not gonna lie. I'd find that quite upsetting. Just give us a cheer if you have a feminist job or do a feminist. You know, you might do a feminist side hustle. One, two, three. Same people. Give us a cheer if you think you have an unfeminist job. You're arguing about whether your job is feminist. I'm intrigued now. What is it? I'm a writer. You're a writer? Yeah. What, you've written a feminist play? Can we see this feminist play or is it already being gone? It's called Bears. Bears. Bears. Oh, is that what we'd rather be with than men? Men. Men, Is it? It's about that. Oh, it's about the survey. Where is it? On Contact theatre in Manchester. 6 to 16 May. I really love that your friend had to tell You. This is a marketing opportunity, babe. You've written a play called Bears, Bears, Bears. About how women would rather be in a wood with a bear than a man. Think it's your moment. Anyone got a non feminist job? No. Okay, great. All right, we don't need to do that then. Normally I find someone with an unfeminist job, but they usually do Trojan horse feminism. Do you do any Trojan horse feminism, Darren? No, I'm the real deal. No, I'm the real deal. Again with the confidence. It's just wonderful, isn't it? It's just wonderful. If we could just bottle Darren and wear him like a cologne. I'm the real deal, baby. There's all these women in here going, I don't think it's really feminist enough for me to woohoo about. I don't want to say I have an unfeminist job. Don't want to say I've got a feminist job. I think it's best that I just keep quiet in my personal journey. I think that's what's important. Not Darren. Darren's in the front row. He's got a notebook and he's the real deal. And with that, I think it's time to invite on my incredible co host for this evening. She's come all the way from Ireland for this gig, so give her a huge London welcome. And I don't mean a real London welcome. I mean the one that you would hope Londoners would give people from overseas that they never do. Put your hands together to make incredible woohooing noises for Eva Dunn. No.
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Hi.
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Yes. You've come all the way from. Are you from Dublin?
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C
I'm from outside Dublin.
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Outside Dublin.
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I don't know why I said that. I'm from Galway. I mean. Yeah, I did it for the English guys. I use Dublin.
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Galway is outside Dublin.
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It is, yeah.
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But quite a way outside.
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But quite a way. Like two and a half hours. Yeah.
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It's a bit like saying Manchester's outside London. Yeah, technically true. But more polite than Darren would have been.
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Now, Darren. What's for Darren?
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I'm from Galway. Don't assume people from Ireland are from Dublin. Yeah, we're not all from Dublin. There are other places like Limerick and Cork.
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Oh, okay.
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Showing off. Tipperary, it's a long way from.
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That's a place.
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A
I'm so sorry. These are places that people from not. Who are not from Ireland know.
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Are there Irish people here?
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Give us a chair if you're Irish.
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Okay.
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That's like an Irishman.
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That's the repression. We'll deal with that later.
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Anyone else? Is anyone else here from Galway?
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No.
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Okay.
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Even if they were, they wouldn't say no. They're like the opposite of.
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Is that Darren? That's Darren, yes.
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Yeah.
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I mean, it's pretty obviously Darren, isn't it? Point to another person in this room who could be Darren. There isn't one. There isn't one. There isn't one. We love you, Darren. I genuinely. I genuinely am very fond of you. This is of genuine affection. It's teasing, but in the way that a family would tease. But it is genuine affection. I feel like Darren and I are going to be friends. Okay. Thank you so much for coming. You're doing a brilliant tour at the moment. What's your tour show?
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It's called Good Grief. And I'm so bad at selling myself because I'm Irish. Even you said brilliant tour. I was like, it's not brilliant, it's shite. Yeah. So I'm doing my first debut tour and I'm actually going to be in London in Leicester Square in September. So if you. Yeah, but I could be shit, so.
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Well, you're going to see her and you're going to see that she's not. So this is the Guilty Feminist, the podcast in which we explore our noble goals as 21st century feminists and the hypocrisies and insecurities which undermine them. Are we ready for some stand up comedy? Please welcome to the stage the incredible IFA Done.
- [30:15]
C
I actually forgot I was doing it. I was like, who's coming? How are ye? Okay, as we've established, I'm an awkward Irish person, so give me a whoop. If you are Irish. I just want to hear, okay, so to the non Irish in the room, that's what we call Catholic repression, okay? And it's very hard being an Irish person. And, you know, in the wake of all these people who are so sexually liberated, you know. Are you all sexually liberated? Yeah, kind of. Go girl. Okay. You know, it's great and like pop off queens and stuff, but it's hard for the sexually repressed, okay? And we're really struggling because you get into bed and you're like, I don't like myself, I don't like being naked. And all of these people just want to have sex all the time. Darren, it's tough, okay? It's really tough as an Irish person because most of the time Irish people, Irish women. I'll tell you something, when we have sex, it's not hot sex, right? Irish Women, the most important thing to us at all times as being warm, okay? The. Oh, my God. The height of sexiness, right, for me is when I'm in my Primark dressing gown, right, and I've got my fluffy socks on, always fucking on. And I'm caressing one of those long hot water bottles, you know, And I've got my hot. Like I've got watching Blind date, right? This is perfect. This is the height of sexual pleasure, right, for an Irish woman. And then your partner comes in, right? And you're like, fuck sake, right? And sometimes when you're under the duvet, right, and you're so toasty, and he comes in. Honestly, I've thought about just asking him just to. To cut a hole in the duvet and just slide in. Wouldn't that be lovely? Just toasty sex, right? And then when you stop having sex with Irish men, right, and you start like, kind of branching out and you have sex with men from other countries and you realize these sick fucking freaks are having sex over the duvet and these sick fucking kinky fucks are leaving the big light on.
- [32:06]
A
What the fuck?
- [32:09]
C
I'm like, jose, what am I supposed to do? Leave my sunglasses and my fluffy socks on? Like what? And then they ask you questions. Men from other countries, right? In Ireland, we don't speak in the bedroom, right? We're raised with two facts, right? When we're younger, I don't know how, I don't know if it's copied through our DNA, right? But it's just something. There's no town committee, but we just know two facts, right? We all hate Conor McGregor. It's fact number one. And the second fact is you're not to say a fucking word in the bedroom, right? You have to zilch, right? And then you start. I started dating this man, this American guy, okay? He was a runaway preacher, I swear to God, right?
- [32:45]
A
I just.
- [32:46]
C
I just. I'll talk more about in the show, but I'll give you a quick rundown. So I just lost my mom. I was grieving. You know, when you're grieving and you just want to do dark shit, right? And I didn't want to have sex with, like, a nice boy. I was like, I want to have sex with someone who hates himself as much as I do, right? So I went to this dive bar, right? And I was like, I was looking for a dark soul. And I saw in the corner this man kind of cowering. And I was like, perfect, right? So I get closer and I realize he's gorgeous. Right? He's got blonde hair, high cheekbones, and he's got these sad eyes, right? So I get closer and I was like, at this point, I'd lost all shame, right, to the Irish girls in the room. And I was grieving. I was like, fuck it. I'm just walking straight up to men. So I went up to him and I was like, hi, my name's Aoife. What's your name? And he's like, ah, I'm Chris. I was like, oh, my God, he's American.
- [33:33]
A
I hate him already.
- [33:34]
C
This is perfect. And then I was like, chris, what are you doing here? And he's like, I actually don't want to tell you. It's so painful. Go on, Chris. And he goes, well, back in America, I was training to be a preacher. An evangelical preacher. Yes. And while I was training to be a preacher my whole life, and I was going to be a superstar preacher because I love Jesus. I was like, okay, Chris, go on. And he's like, but one day, I couldn't resist temptation and I fingered my girlfriend, right? And I ran away to Ireland. And now I'm here. I was like, this is fucking perfect. And I got my affair with a runaway preacher. Now, it was a bit. It was dark, right? He was my dark prince. And the thing is, because he was evangelical and he had never really had sex before marriage, because that was dirty, right? So he thought I was dirty and impure because I'm not evangelical. Newspaper flash, right? And so then he never wanted to leave the apartment. We'd just stay in this horrible apartment, right? Just the two of us. He never wanted to leave. He was embarrassed to be out with me, and I didn't want to leave with him, you know, because he was American, so. Right? So we would just stay in his apartment having this, like, really dark sex, right? And one of the things he wanted to do was he wanted to watch porn in the bedroom together. Now, I said, chris, I don't watch porn, right? Because I'm a feminist and porn was made by men for men. If we're going to watch porn in the bedroom, it's going to be ethical porn. Anybody? Ethical porn?
- [34:58]
A
Yeah.
- [34:59]
C
I love the confidence. Are you American? She's American. I knew it. You know what it is? It's not loads of vegans getting fucked up the arse, lads, okay? Ethical porn is real porn, right? It's made by women for women. Actually, Erica Lust. Did you check her out? Ashley Bex. Ashley Bex. Oh, I love the way you said that. Ashley Baxter. So, Erica Luz. Is this Berlin director, right? She's amazing, right? So I said, chris, if we're going to watch, we're going to watch these. But the problem with porn made by women is that it's so. There's so much fucking backstory, right? It's three hours long. It's about a story of a sexy nurse, right? Born to a single mother. Wow, Chris, this is amazing, right? And against all odds, guys, she saves up and makes it to nursing school. Oh, my God, Chris, wake up. What's she gonna do now? Chris, right? And then she saves up enough money and she gets a postgraduate in nursing. I was like, chris, wake up. What's she gonna do with the 2 degrees? So when the sex, the porn didn't really work, right? Didn't really get him going. He tried to insist that I do dirty talk, right? He wanted filthy dirty talk. And to the Irish in the room, we don't fucking do that, do we? No, I know you do this American, right? Americans never shut up, right? In the bedroom, outside the bedroom, it's all the same. Great pop off, confident. But I couldn't do it, right? He insisted. And there's a few reasons why we don't do it, right? Irish men, they don't do dirty talk in the bedroom. And it's because of the accent, right? Because if you say something kind of kinky and sexy like, where do you want me to come? Right? Very normal sentence, right? Sorry, I feel like I'm just directing it one person there, so sorry. If you say that, where do you want me to come, right? If you say that in a Cork accent, for example, right? Where do you want me to come? It sounds like you're delivering milk, you know, will I leave it around the back? Is that sure. Will I drop it off the side as usual, huh? Right? Doesn't work. And the reason Irish women don't do dirty talk, it's a very different reason, right? Irish women, we are so repressed, right? That's why Irish women walk and talk so fucking fast. Have you ever seen Irish? How are you doing now? Yeah, we talk so fast. We talk in the room. Yeah, And I know, but we're doing that because we're so terrified that if we stop for a second, if we stop for a second, we're just gonna tell you all to fuck off. So we keep it inside, right? 800 years of repression. Everything, everything we've ever thought about, every fucking man we've ever met is stored inside our tiny little bodies, right? And we're terrified that, what in the act of pleasure, right? That beautiful, raw, unbridled pleasure. What if all that comes out and it's just demonic, so we crush it inside? A lot of people my age, I don't know if this was the same in the uk, but in Ireland we faked our orgasms back in college. It's not because you didn't rock our world, right?
- [37:54]
A
Right.
- [37:55]
C
It's because we were terrified that, what if it comes out? It's just ugly. You know that scene in the Exorcist when her head's spinning around and she's pissing on the floor? That's an Irish woman having an orgasm for the first time,
- [38:09]
A
right?
- [38:10]
C
But anyways, he pushed one day, Chris. He's like, come on. I was like, fine, I'll give it a go. And he never asked me to do it again, right? So I'll tell you what happened. I was on top, right? It's a good position, isn't it? Because you can kind of throttle them if it's going wrong, right? So there's a lot of knowing laughs there in the audience. Oh, yeah, I've done that. Yeah, the thorax, yeah, Just press the thumb in there, yeah. So when you're on top, right, and it's going well, you know when it's going well, right? But then you get stuck in that awkward rhythm, like, I'm speaking heteronormatively here, like, do you want to get stuck, ladies? And you get stuck in that rhythm. You're moving up and then he starts to move up at the same time, and then you're like, what the fuck are we doing? Are we waltzing here or what the fuck? There's this lovely vacuum here. Lovely. He's like, is that good for you? I haven't felt you since 1995, right? But then all of a sudden, he shifts gears, right? He finally gets a stick off your knee and you're like, oh, my God. And it feels so good, right? And you feel all that pleasure resurging up, right? So when I was there with Chris, I felt it and it felt so good. And I was like, oh, my God. But I didn't want all the rage and repression to come out. So I was like, don't move. And he was like, what? And I was like, oh, my God, I'll try again. And I was like, don't move. But then I couldn't keep it in any longer, lads. All that rage and repression came spilling
- [39:38]
A
out and I was like, chris, why
- [39:39]
C
do you leave the wet clothes in the washing machine, you stupid prick? Don't. And you never asked me to do it again. Thank you so much guys.
- [40:19]
A
Study and play come together on a
- [40:21]
C
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- [40:24]
A
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C
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- [40:33]
A
Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 Premium and a year of Xbox game Pass ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more@windows.com studentoffer law supplies last ends June 30th terms at aka mscollegepc. Our guest today is a British Turkish journalist reporting on the human impacts of digital technology and social media. She is the author of Logging the Human Cost of Our Digital World and an online safety campaigner with families and survivors to prevent online suicide harm and bereaved families for online safety. She campaigns for tech accountability and suicide prevention. Please welcome to the stage Adele Walton. Thank you so much for coming, Adele.
- [41:21]
B
Thanks for having me.
- [41:22]
A
Thank you. Your book is absolutely incredible and your story is incredible and your ability to communicate that story is amazing. Would you like to read a little bit of your book to get us going so that the audience have a context for you?
- [41:36]
B
For sure.
- [41:37]
A
Oh my God.
- [41:38]
B
Let me bring the mood down a little bit.
- [41:40]
A
We love a gear change.
- [41:42]
B
We've been having too much fun.
- [41:43]
A
We love a gear change.
- [41:44]
B
Yeah, let's do it. Technology is not neutral. As you scroll through your phone soaking in content online, you may see something that upsets, irritates or angers you. Or it could be something more extreme, something that rocks you to your core. This sparking of emotion reveals in its own small way how what we consume online can have an impact that transcends the four corners of a screen. It is an example of how the digital world is not some technological utopia, but instead a warped distortion of our offline world, one that intensifies its pitfalls and maximizes its risks. We are all aware that our offline world is tough. It's imperfect, harsh, and at times traumatic. Many of us turn to our digital spaces to escape this reality. But that online haven is a fallacy and an illusion. We have created technological tools that magnify the injustices in our material world, build on toxicity, and further entrench polarized views. Yet these same tools are packaged to us as useful, helpful and liberatory. And in this process, we have become dependent on what they bring to our lives, whilst failing to critique how they harm us and our society. Throughout my life, digital technology has actively impacted my mental health and well being, and I've long felt at my core that something is not right. I've been trolled by men online, I've been stalked and harassed online. I've battled with body dysmorphia and my self esteem since my early teens as a result of images I've consumed online. These experiences undeniably impacted me and are inextricably linked to my identity as a young woman and what that brings with it. They've made me feel unsafe and at times even more unsafe than I did in the offline world, and for years I assumed that these were things that I would get over with with time and growth. And while frustrating and painful, it was my responsibility to choose how to react and to not let them define me. Technology as a science and an industry is often imbued with an authority and regarded synonymous with objectivity. It is seen as an unquestionable entity that stretches across our world, intangible and impartial. This idea that technology is fundamentally objective is also known as the view from nowhere. This view argues that technology is not influenced by anyone's view, but just exists as fact. And I too viewed technology as neutral until 2022 when my life was changed forever. My life shifted the day I truly awoke to how harmful the digital world could be. My eyes were open to the ways that our digital and material lives are now forever intertwined and my perspective on our technology changed forever. In 2022, when I found out my sister Amy had died, my world was suspended into stillness. No one should have to find out about the loss of a loved one from a total stranger knocking on your door. Nothing could ever prepare you for the pain that comes with losing a loved one. Suddenly, in the police investigation that followed, we discovered that Amy had been on a toxic online forum that encourages to the point of pressuring people to take their own lives. And with a substance easily available through the click of a button, she was able to take her life. Amy had become one of a countless number of often invisible victims of online harms, and this loss allowed me to see how dangerous the digital world that we now take as a given can be. My sister's story is not isolated, nor is it rare. It is simply one of the more severe and shocking examples of digital technology failing us. These technologies can impact all of our lives differently, and often it can be positive. Some people have made fortunes through their online lives. They may have found educational content that has changed their views entirely, or become part of communities they would have never met offline. Growing up as a Gen Z, I can't count how many online friends I've made over the years and how so many of these people are some of the most important people in my life. However, there is light and dark in everything and there is a side of tech that is insidious and can shake us at any stage of our life, either directly or indirectly. My experience of having a loved one who has become a victim of online harms and others like it are happening regularly and each day. I've been working on this book I've learned of new real life horror stories you may have heard of the devastating murder of teenager Brianna Jai, a far reaching story that left the nation horrified. In 2023, 16 year old Brianna was brutally stabbed to death by two teenagers from her school who used the dark web to fantasize over torture and death and communicated with each other online to plan their attack. The brutal murder of Brianna demonstrated the atrocious consequences of an unregulated digital world and the impact it can have on young people's safety and their mental health. Brianna's family and mine are united in a way we could have never imagined. We are both bereaved families who've lost a loved one as a result of online harms and following both our losses, Esther Jai and I have been part of Bereaved Families for Online Safety, a campaign group dedicated to fighting for a digital world so that it can become safer and highlighting the vital need for tech companies and governments to prevent further harm. As it stands, these companies are cashing in on a crisis of our humanity with young people and vulnerable people being most at risk. But the problem itself isn't social media or smartphones. One of the key problems is that these platforms have been designed to keep us scrolling whatever the cost. If social media was designed to keep users safe, harmful content, be it self harm or suicide content, racist or transphobic content, or content that promotes disordered eating would not be accessible. Amy and Brianna could still be here today, growing into courageous, resilient and happy young women. And rightly so. Many parents are recognizing the vital need for an intervention and are seeing the damage that can happen when we sleepwalk into a complacency around the tech we are now so used to. Just like me as I was growing up, they know that something is not right. But parents shouldn't be alone in this fight for a better digital world. It's a battle that we all have stakes in.
- [47:59]
A
I mean, it's a brilliant book, it's out in paperback soon and we'll talk about that at the end as well. But I, I can't imagine what that must have been like. And did you have any idea that your sister was on online forums talking about suicide to people?
- [48:16]
B
No, not at all. It was the, you know, Amy had been struggling with her mental health for a long time. She was neurodivergent. So you know, in many ways growing up as a, a teenager who is neurodivergent at school, she sourced community and found connection in online spaces for a long time. So, you know, her relationship with the Internet wasn't something that was strange to us or you know, worrying to us because that was just part of our lives as Gen Z. But we didn't know anything about, you know, this website that she was on in particular until after she had passed. And yeah, we found that out through police.
- [48:49]
A
So what do you think it is that is like, it feels like there are very sinister forces who are allowing that, promoting that, like the very invention of it. Do you think there is some sinister underlying force behind self harm? Websites and forums telling people to hurt themselves and even worse and you know, the manosphere. What do you think is behind it?
- [49:19]
B
Yeah, there is. I had a gut feeling that something was obviously more sinister than, you know, supposedly an online website where people who are vulnerable or struggling with their mental health could potentially go and talk to strangers about those shared struggles. I felt really concerned knowing that Amy was found in a room with an American man who had flown over from America to be in the room when she died and witness her die, essentially. And to me, immediately I was like, that man is an incel. There's no denying that. But obviously being able to prove that is another thing. So I actually was doing some digging around the forum and through the incredible journalism of a female New York Times journalist who, her name has slipped my memory now, but she had in 2021 done a really deep dive into this website and found that this website is one of four websites created by the same creators of the world's largest incel forum. And off the four websites that they have, the only one that women are allowed on is the Pro Suicide Forum.
- [50:26]
A
Oh my God.
- [50:28]
B
So and so is there in, I
- [50:30]
A
mean I read in the book about this man being there. Is he not liable for her death? Is that not murder?
- [50:35]
B
Well, to me it's assisted suicide, which is a crime. But sadly the suicide act was created in 1961, so it doesn't cover these types of loopholes when it comes to, you know, online factors and online links. And yeah, essentially he was arrested at the time but released after his Bail period finished, and he's back in America living his normal life.
- [50:57]
A
How old was he?
- [50:59]
B
Significantly older than Amy. Yeah.
- [51:01]
A
And how old was Amy?
- [51:02]
B
If it's 21.
- [51:03]
A
She was 21. And so this older man encouraged her to take her own life, flew over from America, sat in a hotel and watched her do it, and then just walked away. Exactly. He murdered. I mean, that's just so. And this is, this is INCEL culture.
- [51:17]
B
Yeah.
- [51:17]
A
And if anyone doesn't know, there could be people listening at home as well that don't know. INCEL stands for involuntary celibate. It's a sort of cultivated culture around if you're a man and you'd like to be having sex and you're not, it's because women are withholding. And then of course, that generates a standoff, which means that you can't form a normal connection with a normal person that you might meet who might really like you because you're being told they don't want you because you're not tall enough, they don't want you because you don't have enough money. Nobody ever said that, like, you know, some people might, but. But if you go out into the world and try and make connections with people, you'll probably find somebody who likes you for who you are. But if you go out with that attitude, of course you won't. And so that culture that has been developed online just to contextualize that, in case anyone's wondering what it means. And so is this site paid for by people in the manosphere? Like, how does it develop?
- [52:08]
B
They, they have like a fundraising stream. So the, the people, the creators who have, you know, got this website, they actively ask their members to contribute money for them. They also, after the Online Safety act came in, they put an announcement out saying, oh, the UK government is trying to censor us. They're trying to silence us. But we believe in free speech. So again, it's that same argument that the tech bros are using when it comes to online safety policies. It's this whole free speech idea. And actually in the book I talk about how that in itself is a fallacy. These platforms don't promote free speech, they promote their speech and their version of what free speech means to them. And, you know, that's clear in the fact that on meta platforms, pro Palestine speech is systematically censored. So really that that whole argument just falls false.
- [53:02]
C
Really?
- [53:03]
A
Yes, absolutely. And there was recently a hearing in America where that it was conclusively discovered that this was made to be addictive. It was designed to be addictive. And somebody sued them, like, said, you made me addicted when I was a child. How does that play into this, do you think?
- [53:20]
B
Yeah, I mean, that was incredible. I think it was last week. I was actually, funnily enough, fully offline when that happened. And, yeah, met as well.
- [53:29]
A
Your book is called Logging Off. Exactly.
- [53:31]
B
I was finally practicing Sing what I Preach. And in the LA case, Meta was fined 3 million, which is obviously nothing to them. But in the New Mexico case, they were fined 370 million. So that is like, really, really significant. And it's the first time that we're seeing tech companies finally financially being held to account for the harm. Because I think, you know, a lot of this regulation that's now coming up, we're playing catch up when it comes to regulating these products anyway, regulating these platforms. And they've got this very reactive approach of like, okay, yeah, we'll make the platform safe. Okay, we'll release teen accounts. Okay, we'll do this. All of it is, you know, sort of the equivalent of greenwashing. I don't know how you could apply that same logic, but that equivalent of being like, okay, well, we're going to, we're going to make a change and actually the change doesn't work anyway, but we're only going to get real change if we hit them where it hurts. And that is the astronomical profits that they're making in this, in this industry.
- [54:27]
C
And do you think, like, realistically that we could get to a safer place with these platforms? Do you think that's a hundred percent?
- [54:34]
B
Yeah, 100%. Like, if I didn't believe that, I would have sacked this off. Like, I wouldn't be doing it. And, you know, it's like if we had, when we first had cars, if we had gone, oh, I know, like, everyone's crashing into each other, people are dying. Like, you know, is there any way we can actually make these things safe? And we all just were like, nah, it's all right, we'll just carry on. Seat belts would have never been invented. Like, that is what we need. We need speed limits. Exactly.
- [55:05]
A
Driving tests. There was no driving test at first.
- [55:07]
B
There's so many safeguards that we have when it comes to the offline world, but we are playing catch up with the online world. And I think that a big part of that is the culture around technology. We have inherently said technology can only ever be a good thing. Technology, AI is this new buzzword. AI can only ever be a good thing for the economy, for people. And I think now that culture is changing collectively in the public. Like, I think initially there was this AI hype, and it was this sort of unchallenged assumption that it's just this incredible tool and it's gonna, you know, boost profits and it's gonna change the world and everything's gonna be all futuristic like it is in the films. But actually, so many of us now are realizing that this is just a bit of a joke, and it's just another way for them to get us more hooked on a new thing at a time when the old thing is falling out of favor.
- [56:00]
A
So, yeah, and a much more dangerous thing, you know, the way. The way that it's going. Even more dangerous than social media, which is, as you say, unregulated, is a great example that the car is a great example because there were no driving tests, there were no speed limits. There was nothing. It wasn't, you know, no force. Well, I saw recently vox pops of people in Britain when drinking and driving became outlawed, so you could only have so much alcohol in your system. People were outraged. People were saying, an Englishman can no longer go to an apartment and have a couple of ales and just get himself home. I know how to drink. I'm country roads after a yard of ale. And people were living. But it's normalized now. We know that drinking and driving is bad. You know, there's that brilliant scene in Mad Men when Roger goes out to drive, he's so drunk he can't stand up, and Don Draper's the door going, roger, that's my car. And just let your friend drive home like that. And so that's how we will be looked on. I think this era of social media. Our great grandchildren, assuming climate change and AI hasn't got us first, will look back and go, you did what? Yeah, online. There was no regulation.
- [57:12]
C
Yeah. We're essentially in the time period of, like, I'm. I'm 39, but I remember being thrown into the back, into the boot because they. Into the. Because they needed space.
- [57:20]
A
Thrown into the boot?
- [57:21]
C
Yeah, in the boot of the car.
- [57:23]
A
We need an intervention.
- [57:24]
C
No one else.
- [57:27]
A
Thrown into the boot with your hands.
- [57:28]
C
It's an Irish thing. It was like you just. Because in Ireland, we had loads of kids, so there was like, no big, like, you know, space wagon cars like they do have now. So they bought normal small cars and you just squished them in. And some of the kids. And then sometimes we'd sit on the floor behind the driver's seat and that's where we would knees up, like. And I loved being in the boot. It was great crack. So I think we're there now.
- [57:47]
A
It's really a station wagon with sort of like a hatchback. You mean?
- [57:50]
C
Some of them were. But some of them just like you just lifted.
- [57:53]
A
Some of them was an actual booth. Because I was in the back of a station wagon. We did that and rattled around.
- [57:57]
C
Two pounds.
- [57:57]
A
Rattled around. No, it wasn't my family's. It was coming home from like girls brigade. We would all jump in the back of some lady's hatchback.
- [58:04]
C
Still not okay, by the way.
- [58:05]
A
But. No, I mean, no, but much more okay.
- [58:08]
C
Yeah.
- [58:08]
A
Than being in a clothes.
- [58:09]
C
Are we doing boob comparisons? So, like, you're.
- [58:12]
A
Anyway, I think we're.
- [58:13]
C
I think we're in the boot of social media.
- [58:15]
A
We're in the boot of social media. So to come back to you, Adele, what do you think we should be doing now? What's the speed limit? We should be asking for? What's the get out? No kids in the boot. What's those seatbelts we should be asking for? What are we demanding?
- [58:34]
B
Safety by design. That needs to be the bare minimum. Because when we talk about addictive algorithms, the algorithm, you know, we, we often say the algorithm. Of course, there are multiple algorithms, but addictive design is the thing that is causing all of these different types of societal harm, whether it's self harm, content pro anna content, misogynistic content, far right content, all of those things are being platformed and boosted by addictive design. And if we had social media that was designed fundamentally to be safe first and then engaging second, then we wouldn't be in so many of these crises that we're having now.
- [59:14]
A
What do we do, though, when the algorithm is owned by people who think far right is correct?
- [59:21]
B
That I cannot give you the answer.
- [59:26]
A
We need our governments to say this isn't correct.
- [59:29]
B
Absolutely.
- [59:30]
A
And when you've got a far right government, you then have a real problem, which is one reason we need to keep reform out.
- [59:35]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [59:36]
A
But we need to campaign in this country while we have a Labour government. Although they don't always behave like a Labour government, sometimes they do. And on this they might. So what do we. What do we need to ask our current government for?
- [59:50]
B
What are we asking for right now? The UK government have their consultation on social media open, so everyone who is a member of the public can take part in that and should be taking part in that. It's a long process, but it's so worth taking part. And if you don't want to take part in that, but you do want to make your opinions heard when it comes to the other issues. Email your mp. That is the most straightforward and simple thing you can do when it comes to making sure that your politicians know and our representatives who should be representing our interests, not big tech's interests, Please, please engage with your MP through that route. I think we often treat like the digital space as a second problem that's separate to all of the other problems that government should be working on. But it needs to be on our priority. Like we need to be engaging with our MPs in that as well as all the other issues we care about. Another thing is that why that's so important is the big tech lobby, like lobbying RMPs is huge. Big tech representatives are meeting RNP's at an astronomical rate, so much higher than the number of meetings that bereaved families and other online safety campaigners are getting time to, you know, speak to people like Liz Kendall and Keir Starman, things like that. So we need to be engaging as much as we can with, with our, with our government, but also de centering how much of a chokehold these platforms have on our lives. And that's why like towards the end of the book I talk about my own personal unraveling of my relationship with social media. As a freelancer I'm dependent on it, but at the same time I recognize that if I am only using this thing, I am not building community, I'm not building relationships offline. We are only going to get more in the trap of being dependent on big tech if we do not decenter the role that these platforms play in our lives. So that means showing up offline, like investing in third spaces, going and using those third spaces. Join your local library because if we don't do those things, they're going to be taken away from us.
- [61:57]
A
And that's an amazing place to have an interval because this is a third space. This is a space people coming together in community. This isn't a 60 second video online. This is a place where we get time to talk and after the interval, go get a drink, go to the loo. After the interval you will have a chance to ask Adele questions. Thank you so much, Adele Walton. See you after the interval. So that was the first half. Join us for part two, which should be in your feed right now.
- [62:34]
C
Your next chapter in healthcare starts at
- [62:36]
A
Carrington College's School of Nursing in Portland.
- [62:39]
C
Join us for our open house on Tuesday, January 13th from 4 to 7pm
- [62:44]
A
you'll tour our campus, see live demos, meet instructors, and learn about our Associate Degree in Nursing program that prepares you to become a registered nurse.
- [62:53]
C
Take the first step toward your nursing career.
- [62:55]
A
Save your spot now at Carrington. Edu Events.
- [62:59]
C
For information on program outcomes, visit carrington.
- [63:02]
A
Edu Sci.