Podcast Summary: The Happiness Lab with Dr. Laurie Santos – Episode: Dr Laurie Talks Romance, Parents and Stalking on 'Love Factually'
Release Date: February 14, 2025
Introduction
In this special episode of "Love Factually," co-hosts Ben Walter, Paul Eastwick, and Eli Finkel welcome Dr. Laurie Santos, renowned Yale professor and host of "The Happiness Lab." The discussion centers around the 1989 romantic comedy "Say Anything," delving into its portrayal of relationships, parenting, and the fine line between romantic gestures and stalking, all through the lens of relationship science.
Overview of "Say Anything"
Dr. Laurie Santos introduces the film, highlighting its acclaim as Entertainment Weekly's top romance movie of the past 25 years (07:00). She outlines the primary characters:
- Diane Court (Ione Skye): The intelligent and overachieving valedictorian preparing for a prestigious fellowship abroad.
- Lloyd Dobler (John Cusack): A principled yet underachieving slacker with a passion for kickboxing and Diane.
- Jim Court (Jamie Mullaney): Diane's devoted father embroiled in tax evasion schemes.
The plot navigates the summer after high school graduation, focusing on Diane's relationship with Lloyd amidst her father's disapproval and eventual downfall.
Positive Aspects: Relationship Science Accuracy
1. Power of Optimism and the Roger Bannister Effect (09:00 - 11:28)
Dr. Santos praises the film's depiction of optimism through Lloyd's unwavering belief in winning Diane's heart despite skepticism from his friends (09:00). She relates this to the Roger Bannister Effect—Roger Bannister's belief in breaking the four-minute mile, which subsequently made it achievable for others (10:15). This psychological phenomenon underscores how believing in the possibility of success can enhance actual performance.
Notable Quote:
"Roger believing that it was possible to run the four-minute mile when everyone else thought it was impossible. The idea is that his mental model of this made it easier for him to actually physically achieve this." — Dr. Laurie Santos [10:15]
2. Attachment Transfer from Parents to Romantic Partners (17:05 - 18:22)
Ben Walter and Dr. Santos explore how Diane's attachment to her father transitions to her relationship with Lloyd (17:05). This mirrors the psychological process where individuals shift their primary attachment figure from parents to romantic partners, seeking similar forms of support and security.
Notable Quote:
"This is when we're witnessing her go through that process. And, Eli, that scene you were just describing, I think is the moment, the final moment, where she has the transfer complete." — Ben Walter [17:05]
3. Attraction Based on Kindness and Connection vs. Superficial Traits (20:18 - 22:45)
Dr. Santos analyzes Lloyd's appeal, emphasizing his kindness, humor, and responsibility over superficial qualities like appearance or academic success (20:18). This aligns with relationship science, which indicates that initial attraction is heavily influenced by factors like warmth, humor, and confidence, not just physical attractiveness.
Notable Quote:
"Do we pick people based on, you know, just their looks, just their success criteria, what they're going to achieve in life... or do we pick people based just on how they make us feel?" — Dr. Laurie Santos [20:18]
Critiques: Areas Where the Movie Falls Short
1. Portrayal of Stalking and Boundary Issues (28:31 - 35:53)
The discussion turns to Lloyd's persistent pursuit of Diane, culminating in the iconic boombox scene. Ben Walter and Dr. Santos critique how the movie romanticizes behaviors that border on stalking—such as leaving multiple voicemails and uninvited appearances—highlighting that modern psychology views these actions as unhealthy and unwelcome.
Notable Quote:
"There are studies that look at different forms of stalking, and leaving messages or unwanted phone calls are some of the most common ones. Those show the biggest discrepancy between what the person who is being left feels is likely to be unpleasant and what the person who is stalking feels." — Ben Walter [30:36]
2. Rapid Commitment and Unrealistic Relationship Progression (35:57 - 43:41)
Jamie Dimon and Dr. Santos discuss the swift progression of Diane and Lloyd's relationship—from meeting to committing to moving abroad together within sixteen weeks. They argue that such rapid commitment lacks depth and overlooks the complexities of sustaining long-term relationships, raising concerns about the model it presents to audiences.
Notable Quote:
"Generally it's risky to make forever promises in the first weeks and months of a new relationship." — Jamie Dimon [38:47]
3. Lack of Diverse Social Support Systems (19:42 - 20:12)
The movie portrays Diane primarily relying on Lloyd for emotional support, bypassing a broader social network. Dr. Santos emphasizes the importance of having multiple sources of support in real-life relationships, suggesting that relying solely on one partner can be precarious.
Notable Quote:
"It's risky. It's still not really good. And I think even Lloyd recognizes this." — Dr. Laurie Santos [19:15]
Discussion on Parenting and Attachment
Ben Walter raises concerns about the film's portrayal of parenting, particularly Jim Court's overbearing nature and its potential influence on audiences' perceptions of effective parenting. Dr. Santos connects this to contemporary issues of teenage loneliness and academic pressure, suggesting that the film inadvertently mirrors real-world challenges faced by today's youth.
Notable Quote:
"I think if we just look at just sheer amounts of homework, those things have gone up since the making of this film." — Dr. Laurie Santos [47:58]
Notable Quotes and Insights
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On Shared Reality:
"Humans are truth cartographers searching for epistemic companions with whom to map out the bounds of reality." — Eli Finkel [13:56]
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On Responsibility in Relationships:
"Lloyd is the OG like husband that's gonna support the woman's career." — Dr. Laurie Santos [07:36]
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On Seduction and Consent:
"When we're kind of perspective taking about what would help another person but then looking for signs of consent." — Dr. Laurie Santos [34:19]
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On Relationship Turbulence:
"If anything goes wrong, it's gonna be within the first five minutes." — Jamie Dimon [41:02]
Conclusion and Ratings
The hosts conclude by rating "Say Anything" using their unique metric, "rust bolts," inspired by relationship research pioneer Carol Russbolt.
-
Dr. Laurie Santos: ★★★★★
"Five stars for me." (60:50) -
Jamie Dimon: ★★★★★
"Five rust bolts too." (62:26) -
Ben Walter: ★★★★★
"Five stars from me as well." (61:24)
Dr. Santos awards 4.5 rust bolts, deducting half a star for the problematic portrayal of stalking behaviors, while Ben Walter gives 4 rust bolts, citing the same concern.
Final Thoughts
The episode offers a comprehensive analysis of "Say Anything," applauding its alignment with key relationship principles while critiquing certain narrative choices that diverge from healthy relationship dynamics. Dr. Laurie Santos's expertise bridges cinematic storytelling with empirical relationship science, providing listeners with valuable insights into both the film and the psychology of relationships.
Notable Excerpts from the Transcript:
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Dr. Laurie Santos [09:00]:
"One of the reasons I love this film is I think it really does a nice job of showing the power of optimism. Right. So Lloyd is this, like, underachiever..."
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Ben Walter [17:05]:
"Typically, for most adolescents, they will tell you that the people that they have the strongest attachment bonds with are their parents..."
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Jamie Dimon [35:53]:
"But Laurie, do you have an opinion? Like, what would it mean to be interested in somebody...?"
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Dr. Laurie Santos [34:19]:
"It's really thinking from the other person's perspective about how to help them and what they need..."
This episode serves as a thought-provoking exploration of how romantic comedies can both reflect and distort the complexities of real-life relationships, offering listeners a blend of entertainment analysis and psychological insight.