How to Feel Truly Loved (with Dr. Sonja Lyubomirsky and Dr. Harry Reis)

Summary

The Happiness Lab with Dr. Laurie Santos

Episode: How to Feel Truly Loved (with Dr. Sonja Lyubomirsky and Dr. Harry Reis)

Release Date: February 9, 2026
Host: Dr. Laurie Santos (A)
Guests: Dr. Sonja Lyubomirsky (B) and Dr. Harry Reis (C)

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Overview

This episode dives into the science of feeling loved, debunking cultural myths about romance and uncovering the psychological mindsets that foster genuinely deep and satisfying connections. Dr. Laurie Santos welcomes psychologists Dr. Sonja Lyubomirsky and Dr. Harry Reis to discuss their new book and to share five practical, evidence-based mindsets that boost our feelings of being loved—not just in romantic relationships, but in friendships, family, and all human connections.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Don’t We Feel as Loved as We Want?

[01:00 – 02:07]

• Alarmingly High “Love Deficit”:
  • "About 70%... don't feel as loved as they want." – Sonja Lyubomirsky [01:00]
• The desire for love is most acute regarding romantic partners.
• Despite being loved objectively, we often don't feel loved enough.

2. What Is Love, Really?

[04:37 – 05:25]

• Multiplicity of Love:
  • Love ranges from affection for ice cream to partners and family, making it one of the most ambiguous English words.
  • The show focuses on love as "a deep, embodied experience" where lives are closely interwoven. – Harry Reis [04:37]
• Distinction between loving others and feeling loved by others.

3. The Happiness Connection: Why Feeling Loved Is Crucial

[05:25 – 09:35]

• Feeling Loved is Central to Happiness:
  • Sonja Lyubomirsky highlights that perceived love substantially outweighs objective love in determining happiness.
• Not Feeling Loved = Loneliness = Societal Problems:
  • Dr. Reis: "The absence of meaningful connections... predicted premature mortality from cancer." [08:30]
  • Sonja adds: “The harm of that in terms of physical health problems is equivalent to smoking 15 cigarettes per day.” [08:49]
  • Even vulnerability to common illness (e.g., colds) is increased by social isolation.

4. Common Misconceptions About Why We Don’t Feel Loved

[10:50 – 12:01]

• We tend to personalize a lack of love: “If I don’t feel loved, I must be unlovable.”
• The Real Fix: Change the conversation, not yourself or the other person.
  • Building feelings of being loved comes from making others feel loved.

5. The Five Mindsets for Feeling Truly Loved

1. Sharing

[17:31 – 19:08]

• Authentic sharing (not oversharing!) is critical. Presenting a curated version of yourself undermines genuine connection.
• Paradox of Vulnerability:
  • “We think if we reveal something negative or vulnerable… we’d be liked less. It turns out… we tend to be liked more.” – Sonja Lyubomirsky [19:08]
• Illusion of Transparency:
  • “Other people can't know what’s in your head.” – Harry Reis [20:05]

Practical Tips:

• Start with small admissions. Move deeper as trust builds.
• Maintain rituals of sharing in close relationships: ask and answer "How was your day?" and go beyond surface responses.

2. Listening to Learn

[23:13 – 27:08]

• Most people assume they’re good listeners, but very few feel listened to.
• Listening usually means waiting for your turn to speak. Instead, listen as if you’re going to be tested on what the other person says:
  • “Try to listen like you’re going to be quizzed on it.” – Sonja Lyubomirsky [24:05]
• Ask questions that show you’re engaged at a deeper level.

Benefits of Listening:

• “Leads people to feel more trust in you... in couples, conflict goes much better.” – Harry Reis [25:19]
• The act of listening itself boosts the listener’s connection and happiness.

3. Radical Curiosity

[27:53 – 31:56]

• Active, Person-Focused Curiosity:
  • Don’t just be curious about topics; be curious about the person.
  • “To be curious is to be genuinely interested in the person.” – Sonja Lyubomirsky [28:08]
• Genuine curiosity increases autonomy, well-being, and positive emotions.
• Curiosity fuels “self-expansion” in relationships:
  • “You become interested in another person by being interested in what interests them.” – Harry Reis [31:56]

4. Open Heartedness

[35:06 – 38:34]

• Defined by being genuinely caring, generous, and giving others the benefit of the doubt.
• Benign interpretations of others’ actions foster trust and keep relationships communal.
• "If you want to be happy, try to make other people happy." – Sonja Lyubomirsky [36:32]
• Acts of kindness for others dramatically improve happiness and even gene expression linked to immune health.
• Kindness increases both popularity (in children) and long-term emotional wellbeing.

5. Multiplicity (Accepting All Sides)

[38:34 – 44:16]

• Multiplicity is recognizing that everyone—including ourselves—has many selves: both good and flawed.
  • “If you focus on bad things that you’ve done and feel like those things... rule out anyone ever expressing love towards you, you make it impossible to feel loved.” – Harry Reis [39:58]
• Acceptance of others’ shortcomings while maintaining compassion makes love possible.
• Apply same attitude toward yourself (“self-love” and “self-compassion”) to allow external love in.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “About 70%... don't feel as loved as they want.” – Sonja Lyubomirsky [01:00]
• “The harm of [loneliness] in terms of physical health... is equivalent to smoking 15 cigarettes per day.” – Sonja Lyubomirsky [08:49]
• “We think if we reveal something negative or vulnerable… we’d be liked less. It turns out… we tend to be liked more.” – Sonja Lyubomirsky [19:08]
• “Try to listen like you’re going to be quizzed on it.” – Sonja Lyubomirsky [24:05]
• “You become interested in another person by being interested in what interests them.” – Harry Reis [31:56]
• “If you want to be happy, try to make other people happy.” – Sonja Lyubomirsky [36:32]
• “You don't have to change yourself, you don't have to change the other person, you just have to change the conversation.” – Sonja Lyubomirsky [46:01]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro and societal myths about love: [00:06 – 01:00]
• Why do we feel unloved? [01:00 – 02:07]
• Defining the experience of love: [04:37 – 05:25]
• Feeling loved vs. being loved objectively: [05:25 – 07:46]
• Health and psychological impacts of lacking love: [07:46 – 10:50]
• Misconceptions about becoming lovable: [10:50 – 12:01]
• Paradox of vulnerability and openness: [17:31 – 19:08]
• Illusion of transparency: [20:05 – 20:46]
• Listening to learn: [23:13 – 27:08]
• Radical curiosity: [27:53 – 31:56]
• Open heartedness and kindness: [35:06 – 38:34]
• Multiplicity and self-compassion: [38:34 – 44:16]
• Applying the mindsets and final advice: [44:47 – 46:41]

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Final Takeaways & Practical Advice

• Cultivating the five mindsets—sharing, listening to learn, radical curiosity, open-heartedness, and multiplicity—can make anyone feel more loved, regardless of their starting point.
• The process starts by giving love first; when applied consistently, most relationships reciprocate. If not, it’s sometimes appropriate to reevaluate the relationship.
  • “You go first... If it doesn’t work, maybe that’s a time to pause or walk away.” – Sonja Lyubomirsky [44:47]
• It’s not about perfection; compassion for others and self (even about failing to use the mindsets) helps keep the cycle going.
• Most empowering message: “You just have to change the conversation. So it is absolutely in your control.” – Sonja Lyubomirsky [46:01]

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Suggested Exercises from the Episode

• Start a conversation by honestly answering “How are you?” with something real.
• On your next call or meeting with a loved one, try listening as if you must repeat back everything they say.
• In moments of conflict, turn on curiosity: “I wonder why they feel this way?”
• Do a random act of kindness specifically for someone else and note how it feels after a week.
• Embrace your own and others’ flaws; practice responding to mistakes with compassion and benign interpretations.

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For More

Sonja Lyubomirsky and Harry Reis's new book: How to Feel: The Five Mindsets That Get You More of What Matters Most (available now).

Website: drlauriesantos.com
Feedback & questions: happinesslabushkin FM

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This episode sets the stage for a three-part series on the science of love. Tune in next week for research-backed advice on finding a soulmate.

Transcript

[A]

Pushkin. It's February, that time of year when we all feel like we're being bombarded with messages about love. Think lots of red hearts, ads for diamond rings, lingerie, chocolates, and on and on. For those of us with romantic partners, there's pressure to make the perfect reservation, buy the perfect gift, and plan that perfect date night. And if you're single, the season often comes with feelings of loneliness and fomo. Honestly, this time of year doesn't always feel great. It's like a huge Hallmark card being collectively shoved in all of our faces. This whole season is supposed to be about love, but that can raise some pretty big questions, like, is this what love is really about? And if not, how many of us are actually experiencing the kind of deep connection we need to feel happy or even just okay?

[B]

We ask people, you know, how often do they feel loved and who do they feel loved most or least by? And we find that about 70%, I believe, don't feel as loved as they want.

[A]

This is the psychologist Sonja Lubomirsky, an expert on the science of happiness.

[C]

They also said that their romantic partners were the people they most wanted to feel more love from, so they weren't getting as much as they wanted or even, in many cases, needed.

[A]

And this is the psychologist Harry Reiss, an expert on the science of relationships. Sonia and Harry have come together to co author a new book called how to Feel the Five Mindsets that give you more of what matters most. The book explores why so many of us don't feel as loved as we'd like, but it also explores what we can do to change that.

[C]

I love talking about how to feel loved. The book makes me feel loved. And the experience of writing with Sonia was definitely, definitely a loving experience as well as a literary experience.

[A]

You guys do seem like you had like a. I don't know if it's. Bromance is not the right word, but something already.

[B]

We have great chemistry, right?

[A]

Stay tuned, because in today's episode, the first of three shows we're doing on the Science of Love, Sonja and Harry will share some practical tips for strengthening our relationships. And not just romantic ones. We're also going to tackle how to feel loved in the friendships, family ties, and everyday connections we already have, plus the connections we're planning to build in the future. We'll get into all of Sonia and Harry's tips after some quick words from our sponsors. This is an I Heart podcast, guaranteed human. Hi, Dr. Lori Santos from the Happiness Lab here. Ever been at the pharmacy counter and your mind goes blank when the pharmacist asks any questions. That's why you need to listen to beyond the Script from CVS Pharmacy and iHeartMedia. Hosted by Dr. Jake Goodman, each episode features real conversations with CVS pharmacists, the health experts you see most, breaking down the questions you wish you'd asked, from which meds may not mix well to what vaccines you need before a big trip. They'll bust myths, decode trends, and share practical advice you can actually use. Listen to beyond the script on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Happiness Lab is proudly sponsored by Amica Insurance. When it comes to taking care of their customers, Amica goes the extra mile from listening to your insurance needs to following up after a claim. Amica provides coverage with empathy because as a mutual insurer, Amica is built for its customers and prioritizes you. It's the way insurance should be. Ameca where your priority number one visit ameca.com and get a quote today. You know, one of the trips that filled me with pure joy was visiting Australia. The wildlife alone, from kangaroos hopping through open fields to kookaburras calling from the trees, it just made me feel so alive. I also love the Melbourne coffee culture. I tried my first flat white there and it was amazing. Australia has this incredible energy that fills you with joy. It showed me how much nature can boost happiness. And I can't wait to go back, explore more destinations in Australia and start planning your memorable [e-mail]. So let's start with the big but obvious question, which makes me think of a really bad 90s song. What is love?

[C]

Well, there are many different definitions of love. Indeed, I think it's one of the most ambiguous words in the English language. You know, we can love chocolate ice cream, we can love the New York Mets, and we can love our parents and we can love our partners. So there are many different definitions. The definition that we use in the book is talking about the kind of deep, embodied experience that you have when you have affection and caring and warmth for other people in your lives that you are connected to, that your life is intertwined with.

[A]

When a lot of people think of love, they think about the thing that you feel for someone else. Like, I love my partner, I love chocolate ice cream. But you really focused on the flip side of that, the experience that you have of other people loving you. Sonia, why that focus for the book?

[B]

As a happiness researcher, I think actually whether or not you feel loved and the extent to which you feel loved by others may be the most important factor in happiness. And by the way, one reason is that we. We can be loved. You know, we can have all these people in our lives who objectively love us, but we don't actually feel loved by them, or maybe not feel loved by them as much as we want to be. So that's a really important distinction.

[A]

Harry, I know this is something you thought about as a kid in your book. You admit how much you were trekking, how much you thought other people loved you. Could you tell us a little bit about that middle school spreadsheeting?

[C]

I was certainly an insecure kid, particularly in middle school is where I really remember that experience most vividly. I went to summer camp. I was in a bunk with about 10 other boys my age. And I remember waking up one night in the middle of the night when there was obviously some kind of activity going on where they were planning some kind of a raid on another bunk, and they hadn't woken me up to take part in that. And I felt just awful. And I remember just naturally spending a lot of my time tracking other people's behavior, you know, who was hanging out with whom, who were friends with whom, and were they including me or not including me?

[A]

My gosh, I can feel that viscerally. I'm like stuck with you on the bunk at like 10 years old feeling that.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

This is something that obviously you saw as a kid and I think we can all relate to, but this is something that a lot of people are feeling, not as middle schoolers, but as adults. So this kind of crisis of not feeling loved feels similar to another crisis that Sonia is happiness researchers. We hear a lot about this idea of the loneliness cr. Is not feeling loved the same as loneliness? Are there differences? What do you think?

[B]

I mean, you could argue that the root of loneliness is a feeling of not feeling loved, not feeling loved, not feeling like you belong, which really go together. And certainly you can see that more and more people are acknowledging that they are lonely. Or when you ask them, like, how many people do you have to talk to? You know, in a crisis, there's fewer and fewer, less and less with time. When you think about a lot of other problems in our society, whether it's bullying or polarization or violence, you could blame sort of not feeling loved or loneliness for those problems as well. It's really even a bigger problem than we think.

[A]

So, Harry, what are some of the consequences of not feeling loved psychologically? What happens when we don't feel that?

[C]

When we don't feel loved. That feeling should not be pooh poohed. It's not something that exists in isolation in us. It goes along with many other kinds of consequences. Certainly a lack of emotional wellbeing and happiness, but it even extends to the body and to our health. There's scores of studies that show that the kind of feeling that Sonia was describing are feelings that relate to just about every health problem you can think of. For example, heart disease is well known to relate to the feeling of not being loved and feeling lonely. One of my favorite studies is a study that was done in California where they looked at cancer deaths and the absence of meaningful connections, which certainly would be related to loneliness and not feeling loved, predicted premature mortality from cancer and a greater likelihood that once you get cancer, you would die from it.

[B]

Basically a lack of connection. That loneliness, the harm of that in terms of physical health problems, is equivalent to smoking 15 cigarettes per day. That number is just so compelling. Right.

[C]

And I'll just throw in one more set of studies which I think are incredibly fascinating because these are experimental studies now. So what they did in these studies is inject people with a cold virus and then did some very sophisticated work to see who got sick and who didn't get sick. And guess what it was. The people who experienced themselves as cut off from others and isolated were more likely to get sick after having been exposed to the cold virus.

[A]

That's so amazing that we see these physical effects of not feeling left to do we understand the mechanism.

[C]

Harry, that's a really important question, and it's one that a lot of scientists are devoting their attention to. The first thing I have to say is we don't really know. The second thing I would say is probably most of the action comes from two places. One is simply happiness and not being anxious, angry, depressed, sad. We know that positive emotions trigger a whole series of biological responses that are health promoting. We know that negative emotions trigger a lot of biological processes that are harmful and deleterious, especially over the long run. The second kind of way of thinking about it, which is a little trickier, is the idea that we probably have mechanisms within ourselves that are designed by evolution to precisely carry out these connections. They're designed to make us seek out others, to seek positive connections with others, to respond well to them, to reciprocate to them. And these mechanisms are within us, but we don't really understand what they are and where they are. But there are a lot of people trying to track that down, and I suspect we'll know A lot more in the next 20 years.

[A]

So the consequences of feeling not loved are huge. But the problem is so many of us are feeling that way. And one of the things I loved about your book is that it walks through why we're feeling that way and all the ways that our mind gets not feeling love wrong. I think one of the ways we get this wrong is we assume that if we're not feeling loved, then we have to have some sort of personal failure, like I'm not attractive enough, or I'm not interesting enough, or I'm not smart enough. If only I could be more lovable than I would feel loved. Sonia, why is this idea a bit wrong?

[B]

And I think you summarized it really well. First of all, yeah, the idea that if you don't feel loved, we think that the solution is to make ourselves more lovable, sort of more interesting, more attractive, more kind, more funny, or somehow get the other person to love us more. And it sort of just turns out that doesn't work. And actually, it doesn't mean that you need to sort of change yourself. It doesn't mean you need to change the other person to somehow notice and love you more. What we argue in the book is what we need to do is change the conversation, which is much more feasible, much less overwhelming. Because when you think about a relationship, a relationship is really a series of conversations. And we can change the conversation in a way that makes sense. You feel more loved by making the other person feel more loved.

[A]

To feel a little bit more loved, we need to make other people feel loved. It's almost feels like a little bit of a paradox or that we get it backwards. What are some of the steps of making other people feel loved?

[C]

Well, one of the things we argue is that it's the way you approach conversations that makes them result in the kinds of experiences in which you will feel loved and the other person will feel loved. So our argument is that if you approach the conversation with the mindset of helping the other person feel loved, something that is, after all, controllable by you, that will set off a cycle of interaction that will allow you to feel more loved. So the approach, in other words, is to listen carefully, to communicate to the other person that you're really interested in what they have to say. You know, so many of us approach conversations as, this is my chance to show off what I think and feel. And that's the exact wrong approach. The right approach is to help the other person do that. So when they tell you about something that happened to them, one of the simplest phrases you can use is tell me more and mean it. Of course, do that with genuine curiosity, because when other people experience that a little light bulb goes off inside their head says, wow, this person's really interested, and then they become interested in you as well.

[B]

Again, our intuition is to make ourselves more lovable, sort of to show off our positive qualities. Right. So we want to speak and sort of show how kind and interesting and funny and intelligent we are to impress the other person. And that does work. I mean, it may work to impress them, but it doesn't really forge a connection. It doesn't really make them feel loved or us feel loved. We're too focused on how we are coming across to the other person as opposed to how we're coming forward, which is really like, what we can actually do to make the other person feel better. There's a kind of famous, like, dating advice, which is that on a first date, you don't want to make yourself feel better about yourself. You want to make them feel better about themselves.

[A]

But it's really counterintuitive. I think we assume that what's under our control is showing off how great we are, getting other people to admire us. But what you're saying is, no, no, no. It's under your control. But what's under your control is that you need to be responsive to the other person.

[B]

Right? That's the first step.

[A]

You need to do that first. Yes, but what does taking that first step look like in practice? What are the strategies we can actually use to feel more loved and to strengthen the connections that matter most? We'll dive into all those answers when the Happiness Lab returns in a moment. Hi, Dr. Laurie Santos from the Happiness Lab here. Ever been at the pharmacy counter and the pharmacist asks, do you have any questions? And suddenly your mind goes blank? That's exactly why you need to listen to beyond the script from CVS Pharmacy and iHeartMedia. Hosted by Dr. Jake Goodman, this podcast brings you real conversations with CVS pharmacists, the health experts you see mostanswering the questions you wish you'd asked, like which medications might not mix well, what vaccines you should consider before a big trip, and even those questions you were too embarrassed to to say out loud. Each episode busts myths, decodes health trends, and gives you practical, trustworthy advice straight from the people behind the counter. No white coats, no lectures. Just real talk, real answers, and maybe a few laughs. Listen to beyond the script on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts now that the new year is here, it's time to get back into your at home routine. And that means making sure you're in spaces that you love. And what better way to elevate your space than with Wayfair? Wayfair is your one stop shop for everything from bedding to mattresses to storage solutions. They have something for every room of the house these days. I've been thinking a lot about bedding because sleep is really important for happiness and Wayfair has everything you need. Think bedding, mattresses, towels. They even have some fresh home decor to make your bedroom look great. Plus, Wayfair's huge selection makes it easy to find exactly what's right for you. I was surprised to find some funky pillows in my budget. Get organized, refreshed and back on track this new year. For way less head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W A Y-F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every Home the Happiness Lab is proudly sponsored by Amica Insurance. It Feels good to be understood Amica goes above and beyond to customize the right coverage for you by taking the time to really understand your needs. Because creating peace of mind is at the heart of Amica's mission. Whether you're at home or on the road, Amica knows it's not just about where you're going, but who you go with. Go with the insurer that truly understands you as a mutual company. Amica puts its customers needs first. Visit amica.com and get a quote. Today, Social psychologists Sonia Lyubermersky and Harry Reiss want to help a lonely world feel more loved. And they've come up with five simple evidence based mindsets that can help us do just that. The first mindset is what they call sharing. I asked Harry to describe what that looks like.

[C]

Sharing is simply the idea that in order to feel loved, you need to open up about yourself. That is, let's say I present a totally curated fantasy view of myself to you. You may be impressed. And when you tell me about how wonderful that sounds, how do I react? Well, it feels hollow because that's not me. That's not the me that I most feel. So when I hide myself and instead emphasize all my positive qualities, it creates this dynamic where other person may well actually provide what you're wanting. And yet it won't ring true because it's not the person who I am. And instead, if you can open up about the person that you really are Then when there is some kind of positive feedback coming, it's much easier to experience it as real, as genuine, and as authentic. Now, it's important to realize that we don't mean dump the story of your childhood on everybody in the first five minutes you meet them. No, that's not what we're saying. What we're saying is that you need to simply be genuine and real in talking about who you are. And over time, you will be able to tell those stories about your childhood and the weaknesses and the shortcomings and the fears that you have. But that's not something you do in the first five minutes. It's something that comes down the road.

[A]

So this kind of sharing is really good for us. It makes us feel loved, it makes other people love us, but it can be incredibly scary. It can feel super awkward. And Sonia, this is what you've called the paradigm paradox of vulnerability. What's that?

[B]

Yeah. So to feel loved, we need to be known. If we're not really known to another person, we'll always wonder, would they still love me if they knew me? The paradox of vulnerability is that we think that if we reveal something vulnerable or negative about us, maybe a self doubt, that we have an insecurity that we have, maybe even a trauma from our childhood, that we would be liked less. And actually it turns out that again, when done at the right time pace, that actually we tend to be liked more when we reveal something a little deeper about ourselves. Like, I actually was just talking to someone about after the Bay of Pigs, when John F. Kennedy admitted he made a mistake. Apparently his approval ratings shot up.

[A]

Another thing I think we get wrong when it comes to sharing is that we assume that people already know. People say, how's it going? And you're like, fine. And you kind of assume that people will see through. Well, no, you're not fine. You're having a really tough day. Or this is, Harry, what you've called the illusion of transparency. I think I can get it from the name. But walk me through what this is.

[C]

Well, the illusion of transparency is the idea that we think that what's going on in our heads is visible to the people we're interacting with. You know, my wife is fond of saying to me, I can't read your mind. And I want to say, but what do you mean? You know me. You know, we've been together for 41 years. But the reality is that other people can't know what's in your head. They don't know what your day was. And even if they know some of the basic facts about what's going on, they don't know how you experienced it. They don't know what your experience of your life is like. So you really need to be articulate about everything so other people can really get it.

[A]

And so we need to share, we need to make things transparent. But what are some practical strategies for doing that? Well, any of your favorite tips, Sonia.

[B]

Really just starting small. If someone asks you how you are, instead of saying, I'm fine, you might say, oh, I had a rough day, or, you know, I was sort of struggling today a little bit. So kind of starting small and then maybe revealing a little bit deeper and deeper, more of your kind of full self. The idea is that the other person hopefully will listen. If they listen well and are responsive to us, they make us feel understood and valued and loved, that would encourage us to open up even more. So that's sort of the cycle that we talk about. And then if we show genuine curiosity and we listen really well with warmth to the other person, they're going to feel even a little bit more safety, more trust, and it'll be easier for them to open up a little bit more.

[C]

Yeah. And what I would add to it is the idea that in our close relationships, such as with your living partners, it's very easy to build in a ritual of, you know, how was your day? But what a lot of people do when they do how was your day? Is, you know, recount a few facts and then go on to answering their emails. And perhaps most of us are so tired at the end of the day that we don't really want to go into it. But the whole point is that you do have to go into it and, you know, to make that a priority as opposed to the last thing that.

[B]

You do and to ask each other questions. And I would say the right kind of questions. One of the points we make in our book is that with longer term relationships, we sort of tend to assume that we sort of know the person. You know, when we first start meeting someone, whether it's a colleague or a friend or a romantic partner, Right. We ask them a lot of questions, like we're so curious about them. And then after a while we just kind of feel like, oh, we now know this person. So we often stop asking, which is actually kind of really sad because everyone's always changing. Like we're always having new experiences and thoughts and doubts and fears and dreams and wishes. Right. And so to keep asking questions, sort of these kind of deeper questions, I think is really important.

[C]

Let me just make a point which I think would be really useful. It's not the sharing of information that is the important part of it. It's the conversation that follow from sharing that's important. So if the sharing doesn't lead to a conversation, it's just a monologue or an interview. But when it leads to a conversation that's genuine, that's where the benefit comes from.

[A]

And this idea of that conversation gets to the second important mindset that's so critical for making other people feel loved. We need to start listening to learn. How is listening to learn different than we normally go about listening?

[C]

Well, one of the things that's so interesting about listening research is that if you ask people, are you a good listener? Something like 90% of people will say that they are a good listener. If you ask people, do the people around you listen well to you? That number drops to about 8%. It tells you that there's a real gap there.

[B]

I think most people feel like they're, like, pretty good listeners, but it turns out that most of us are not good listeners, including myself. When we're listening, we're really, like, rehearsing our answer that we're going to give. And I do this all the time. It's like we're waiting for the mic to be given to us. And so we're sort of listening to respond instead of listening to learn. And so it really requires a kind of retraining of our mind. And one way to do that is to try to listen like you're going to be tested on it. The next day, Harry and I went to a listening workshop. We were divided into dyads, into pairs of two, and we told a story to the other person and. And then we were supposed to retell the entire story. I remember I was paired up with this woman, and I was listening so hard. I mean, I really was listening very hard. Like, I'm going to be quizzed on it, because I was. Because then I was asked to kind of retell the whole story. And I have to tell you, I. I mean, I think I did a pretty good job, but there were so many things I got wrong. And she was like, no, no, I never said that. Or like, no, no, that's not how it happened. And so the first. First is sort of listening like you're going to be quizzed on it. But then the second is to ask questions and ask the kind of questions that show the person you were really listening. Maybe you're even taking it to, like, the next level, maybe even better. You had an insight about what they were telling you because that makes the person feel so seen. Like, wow, that person really wants to know about my inner life. Right. So ask each other questions.

[A]

And so this idea of feeling seen suggests there's all these benefits to being listened to. But Harry, what are some of these benefits and are there also benefits when you are doing the listening?

[C]

Well, there are many benefits of feeling listened to. It leads people to feel more trust in you. It improves the relationship. A wonderful study done by our colleague Guy Itchakov in Israel shows that burnout is much less of a problem when teachers in particular feel listened to by their principals. Other studies show that in couples, when they feel listened to, conflict goes much better. And it's not necessarily that they are better able to resolve conflict, it's that the conflict becomes less pernicious, people become less defensive, and as a result they end up feeling better even if that original issue hasn't been resolved. So it builds trust and connection and a real sense of partnership and interdependence.

[A]

It sounds like if you're boosting people's sense of trust, if you're boosting the sense of partnership, then the listener will also get these benefits as well.

[B]

I have an example actually from just recently. I was talking to a friend who basically said that she didn't feel very loved by her adult daughter who's about like 28 years old. And so she's like trying to figure out how to feel more loved by her. Like maybe she can talk to her and say, I don't feel loved by you. And I said, well, actually the thing to do is to listen to her. Start by listening, right? Just by making her feel loved first, sort of to show genuine curiosity and really listen to what she cares about.

[C]

And to just take that a step further. One of the all time classics in this area is Dale Carnegie's how to Win Friends and Influence People. If you look at his six rules of how to do that, they're all about listening to the other person. They're all about making the other person feel that you're interested in them, you value them, you care about them.

[A]

You had one Dale Carnegie suggestion in the book that I loved. This idea that if you want to make other people feel loved, you should ask questions that the other person will enjoy answering. I love that one.

[B]

I love Dale Carnegie, by the way. I've read that book like three times. There's like a version for teen girls and I actually bought that book to give it to My daughters. I have three daughters. And actually one of my daughters is 12. And she told me just the other day that she remembered one of her friends mentioning some kind of sports that her friend was really, really into. And then a month later, she's like, mom, I remembered that she really likes this sport. So I asked her, blah, blah, blah, you know, tell me about this sport. And the girl was, like, so excited and just started going on and on about this passion of hers. Right. So it's pretty simple, actually, yet to remember what it is the other person really wants to talk about and then to ask them about it.

[A]

So that was mindset number two. We need to listen to learn a little bit better. Mindset three is one that we know benefits our happiness. It is that we need to get really curious. Sonia, you've called this idea radical curiosity. What's the radical part of radical curiosity?

[B]

Sometimes people have trouble understanding the difference between good listening and curiosity. And so I like to sort of use this example. Imagine listening to a lecture or a podcast for that matter. And maybe you're, like, really listening. Well, you're taking notes, and maybe you're even tested on it, and you get an A. But it doesn't mean you're curious. Right. So you can be a great listener without actually being curious. To be curious is to be genuinely interested, and sometimes it's to be interested in the topic, and sometimes it's to be interested in the person. So let's say I'm really into basketball, and you're talking about basketball. Like, I may not be interested in you at all as a person, but I'm curious about the topic. I think it's more powerful when you're really curious about the person. Again, kind of like you make a new friend or you're falling in love, and then you're just sort of curious about anything about their life. Right. And so genuaciosity, when you just sort of want to know more and more and you're like, in the moment, you're experiencing flow, you're not distracted. Those are kind of some of the symptoms of genuine radical curiosity.

[A]

I love the basketball analogy because it fits with a piece of advice that you had in your book that I really enjoyed. This idea of focusing on the person rather than the topic. Right. It's one thing to be like, oh, basketball sounds cool. Like, tell me about the scores or the core. I don't know. I'm not into basketball, so I don't know that much about basketball, embarrassingly. But rather than do that, you don't Even have to worry about not knowing about the topic because what you care about is the person. How did you get into basketball? How does basketball make you feel? You're kind of digging into the person rather than the topic, which is a powerful way to activate the social curiosity. And Sonia, I know that you've done some work on the benefits of curiosity. What have you found so far in your lab?

[B]

Yeah, one of my students, Madison, did her what we call her second year project, kind of our master's thesis, the Intervention on Curiosity. She basically asked people over the course of a week to engage in some kind of curious behavior. So we really enjoyed looking at the examples. These are undergraduates, so it was like, oh, I discovered this new kind of dance and I wanted to learn more about this sort of dancer. My friend had a recipe, so I was learning about how to make this dish. It could be anything, right? And so we found that people who actively and intentionally tried to be more curious every day, they showed more positive emotions, they showed fewer negative emotions, greater well being, greater sense of self worth, interestingly, and greatest sense of autonomy or control.

[A]

And so it seems like curiosity has all these benefits, both maybe to how we're feeling, but also to the relationship and to helping other people feel loved. Harry, are there any best practices for kind of engaging your curiosity in conversation, making other people realize that you are in fact, curious?

[C]

Well, there's in fact, a great irony to this idea. Think about how people go about weeding through the many people they see on online dating sites. Most people will have a checklist and they're typically looking for someone who shares their interests. In fact, there are many niche sites. You know, there's a site for mustache lovers, there's a site for farmers, there's a site for baseball fans. And so you're looking for someone who matches the interest that you already have. But the idea of curiosity fits with an important theory we have in relationships called self expansion theory, which is the idea that one of the reasons we form close relationships is to expand our sense of self. And that can mean learning new things. So, you know, I don't like opera very much, but if I were to pair up with someone who's into opera, if I was curious, I would say, wow, teach me about opera. Let me learn about what's interesting about opera. And you can expand yourself in those ways. So one of the things that's really nice about the idea of curiosity and when Sonia talks about there being social curiosity and thing curiosity is sometimes those things are actually merged because you become interested in another person by being interested in what interests them.

[A]

So far, we've covered three of the major mindsets Harry and Sonya recommend for feeling more Sharing, Listening to learn, and radical curiosity. But we still have two more to explore, plus some guidance on what to do when you've tried all these strategies and you still don't feel as loved as you'd hoped. We'll cover all that when the Happiness Lab returns from the break. Hi, Dr. Laurie Santos from the Happiness Lab here. Ever been at the pharmacy counter and the pharmacist asks do you have any questions? And suddenly your mind goes blank? That's exactly why you need to listen to beyond the Script from CVS Pharmacy and iHeartMedia. Hosted by Dr. Jake Goodman, this podcast brings you real conversations with CVS pharmacists, the health experts you see most answering the questions you wish you'd asked, like which medications might not mix well, what vaccines you should consider before a big trip, and even those questions you were too embarrassed to say out loud. Each episode busts myths, decodes health trends, and gives you practical, trustworthy advice straight from the people behind the counter. No white coats, no lectures. Just real talk, real answers and maybe a few laughs. Listen to beyond the script on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The Happiness Lab is proudly sponsored by Amica Insurance. When it comes to taking care of their customers, Amica goes the extra mile from listening to your insurance needs to following up after a claim. Amica provides coverage with empathy because as a mutual insurer, Amica is built for its customers and prioritizes you. It's the way insurance should be. Amica where your priority number one visit amica.com and get a quote. Today it's time to take care of you and who better to help you do that than the top voices in well being? On Audible, you can level up your parenting, career, finances, sleep, relationships or mindset. The Audible well Being collection has everything to inspire and support you every step of the way. Hear the latest from best selling authors Brene Brown and Jay Shetty, Master Nutrition with chef Jamie Oliver, hear nature sleep sounds from the sleeping world or get on top of your finances with Rachel Rogers. Plus you'll find all the best parenting guides like Raising Good Humans. With this at your fingertips, you can imagine more for yourself and your family. Kickstart your well being journey with your first audiobook free when you sign up for a 30 day trial at audible.com HappinessLab membership is $14.95 a month. After 30 days cancel anytime. Listening to the top voices in wellbeing sounds like self care to us. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. We're back with social psychologists Sonja Lyubomirsky and Harry Reiss, who are sharing the mindsets that research shows we need to embrace in order to feel loved. Number four mindset on their list is what Harry has called open heartedness.

[C]

An open hearted mindset means being genuinely caring toward the other person, certainly giving them the benefit of the doubt, simply being as concerned as we can for their welfare, being kind, being generous, being altruistic. For example, when they tell you something that maybe sounds a little bit shady, have the most benign interpretation that you can think of what they're doing in the most positive light. And you'll find that when you do that, the other person tends to respond much more positively rather than getting defensive and closed up from it. One of the things that we talk about in the book is the idea of a communal relationship. A relationship that's defined in terms of caring about the well being of the other and expecting that they care about your well being. Nearly all of our most satisfying relationships are communal relationships with our children, with our parents, with our romantic partners, with the people we would call a best friend. Those are the relationships that are most deeply meaningful to people.

[A]

It probably seems obvious that being on the receiving end of an open heart mindset feels really good, right? People are caring about you, wanting you to be happy. But Sonia, some of your lovely work has shown the benefits of giving the open heart mindset, kind of extending kindness and compassion. What does the research show about the benefits of that?

[B]

Yeah, it's one of the most powerful things you can do to improve your own happiness is to show an open heart towards other people. Basically, if you want to be happy, try to make other people happy. And so in our studies, for example, we ask people to do random acts of kindness for other people over the course of say, four weeks, a month usually. And then one of the most important comparison conditions is we ask people to do acts of kindness for themselves, which is also nice, which also is self care or self indulgent acts. It feels good to something kind for yourself, but that tends to be more fleeting, right? So you get yourself an ice cream, you get a massage, you take a nap. So it feels good in the moment, doesn't necessarily carry over a month later. We actually have a study where we compared givers and receivers in a workplace where we asked some people to be the givers and others were the receivers. We literally Found evidence to support this. Better to give than to receive. The receivers became kind of happier right away, but the givers actually experienced benefits. Less stress, less depression, even Greater well being four months later, 16 weeks later. So we find that people who do acts of kindness for others, essentially who show an open heart mindset towards others, become happier and also feel more connected in general.

[A]

You also have some data showing that it makes people more successful too. Right.

[B]

We have a study with kids, 9 to 11 year old kids, where we ask the kids to do acts of kindness for others and we find that when they did acts of kindness for others, generally in their family, they came back to the classroom and they actually became more popular. So literally the other kids liked them more when they did acts of kindness at home. So something must have rubbed off on them. So when they came back to the classroom, maybe they just seem more positive, more confident, maybe they were more helpful in the classroom as well. We also find genomic benefits to acts of kindness for others. So people who do acts of kindness for others relative to for themselves, they show changes in their RNA gene expression associated with a healthier immune profile. So sort of less pro inflammatory gene expression in some studies, greater antiviral gene expression. So these are all associated with better immune health.

[A]

So we're feeling better, we're helping our immune systems when we're doing these nice things for other people. Another way that we can become open hearted towards the people that we are trying to love better is to see them in all of their facets. And that gets to the final mindset that you've talked about as boosting our ability to love others. This idea of multiplic. Harry, what's multiplicity and why is it so important for making others feel loved?

[C]

Well, multiplicity is the idea that we all have many selves, many parts to ourselves. Some of these parts are genuinely wonderful. You know, the positive traits we have and some of them are, shall we say, less terrific things that we've been embarrassed by, shortcomings, weaknesses, flaws in our character. We go to great pains to hide these. And one of the things that can really boost a relationship tremendously is the idea of acknowledging those flaws in another person and being accepting of them, even being loving towards them. One part of that is simply coming up with the most benign interpretation that you can for a shortcoming. But another way is simply to recognize, well, I don't like what you did, but I recognize that there's many sides to you. So when we don't focus so much on the negative character attribution for a person's shortcomings and instead focus on, well, you may have done something that wasn't desirable, but that's just one part of you and you've probably done many wonderful things in your life. Part of the importance of that is that allows the other to feel loved and accepted. But the other side of that is that if you start to adopt that idea towards yourself, to have compassion for your own shortcomings and your own weaknesses, you make it that much more likely that you will feel loved. If you focus on bad things that you've done and you feel like those things rule out being happy, that they rule out anyone ever expressing love towards you, you make it impossible to feel loved. So acknowledging that humans have multiple sides and we've all done things that we wish we hadn't done will make it that much more likely that we can feel loved.

[B]

I want to add that it's so hard. I think we are all kind of judgmental maybe sort of evolutionarily speaking, that served us well to kind of, you know, when we see someone engage in a bad behavior that we maybe need to kind of be wary of that person. So it's really, really hard. I actually had an experience recently where I was on Zoom meeting a new group of people. And we had these prompts to answer. And one of the prompts was, name something that you have changed your mind about. My answer and I'm kind of regretting that. I said this is that I have a friend who did a very bad thing. And so I said that he did this very bad thing, but I still his friend. You know, I sort of see him in this sort of very messy complexity. He made a mistake. He has lots of other good sides. I have to tell you, I'm not gonna say it on air, but I said what he did and people just looked at me like, oh my God. I feel like they were judging me for not being judgmental enough. So anyway, that's kind of an extreme example. But I mean, think about like all of us at our lowest moment, right? If anyone saw us at our lowest moment, we'd be pretty ashamed. So let's remember that. But again, I also wanted to sort of reiterate what Harry said about turning multiplicity mindset, also the open heart mindset onto ourselves and sort of having compassion for ourselves and having self love for ourselves. It'll help us feel loved in part because when you think about there are people who love us, imagine them to the of pouring love on us, but it's not getting in and so it's like a cup of love and there's sort of a lid on it and sort of not getting in. And I, I think of like self love and self compassion as a way to open that opening at the top when you really love yourself. People see that by the way, they sort of reflect that appraisal of yourself and you also see their love as more authentic. If you have self love for yourself, you're not suspicious of other people's kindness. So but you see as authentic that person really does love me. You know, when they say that positive thing about me, when they give me that compliment and that's actually real and genuine. So yeah, you're sort of making that opening wider and easier to receive love from others and thus to feel loved by others.

[A]

Any practical strategies for increasing your ability to see others as there are multiple messy selves that can be loved anyway?

[C]

Well, the most obvious one is no matter what you hear, make your first place to go to be seeing it in a nonjudgmental way. I mean, we all have this tendency that Sonia was describing to respond emotionally, to respond judgmentally, short circuit it. When you hear about something that someone did, make your first thought be why might they have done something that they didn't mean to do in that situation?

[A]

And that fits with how all these mindsets go together. Right. What you're describing in that case is if you're feeling judgmental, try to shut off the judgment and turn on a little bit of curiosity and then you can listen to learn about why the person really did it.

[B]

It Exactly. Curiosity actually, Cassidy, is so useful. Imagine in the middle of a fight with your spouse, they're really angry and you stop yourself and you think, I'm so curious why they're so angry. Right. That is a powerful technique. But yeah, again, just like everything gets better with practice. I used to be, I think, a lot more judgmental. I'm sure I still am at times. But when I hear like a friend will say, can you believe what this guy blah, blah, blah, did? Now more often than not, my first reaction is to think about like why that person did that thing. And, and often I imagine them as a young child actually to see someone as a young child, it often is actually helpful to reduce that judgment and.

[C]

Of course to just build on this. One of the things that's really important to not be judgmental about is being judgmental. If you give yourself permission to be judgmental and then back away from it.

[B]

I need to be self compassionate about myself when I'm Judgmental. Thank you.

[A]

And so all these mindsets are super helpful. But you end your book with, I think one of the most important things that we need to do, which is that we need to start using them first, that we need to apply love to others first before we can get back the love to ourselves.

[B]

Exactly. You go first, you listen and you show curiosity. You make the other person feel loved first. Your goal is to make the other person feel good, not to make yourself feel good. But the second thing, I just wanted to add a caveat that's really important is that once in a while, or maybe even more than once in a while, you try everything and it doesn't work. And the person still doesn't respond and they still don't share and they don't reciprocate. Reciprocity is a really powerful rule of social behavior. Very powerful. Usually it works, but once in a while it doesn't. And then if it doesn't, maybe that's a time to reconsider the relationship, maybe to pause, maybe to walk away, maybe to kind of accept it as it is. But I did want to sort of add that so that people understand that once in a while it's not going to work.

[C]

Well, I would add to what Sonia said. This is not a five minute thing, is not that you listen for five minutes and you say, see, they're not responding to me. It's not working. Think of it as a long term investment where you have to do it gradually. Sometimes, as Sonia says, other people will not respond to it. You can make it a topic of conversation to see if that might kick start the process. But if that doesn't work and it continues, maybe it's time to look elsewhere.

[A]

Any final pieces of advice for folks who want to feel loved a bit more?

[B]

My final word is that if you want to feel more loved, you don't have to change yourself, you don't have to change the other person, you just have to change the conversation. So it is absolutely in your control. I think that's a very, very powerful message.

[A]

Love it, Harry.

[C]

I would say that prior to doing this work, I was not a very good listener and in particular I was a pretty judgmental listener. And so one of the things I've learned is to be much less judgmental and to be much more curious about the people I'm talking to. And you'd have to ask my wife if I've been successful at it, but it feels like it's made a big difference to me.

[A]

Well, I have to say that reading the book has made a big difference to me. It really does change things. It makes conversations more fun, it makes you feel like you matter more, and it makes you feel like you belong more. So thank you so much for sharing all this work with everyone and with my listeners today.

[C]

It's been delightful chatting with you.

[B]

Yeah, it's been a pleasure, Lori.

[A]

Even though it may not feel like it, the science shows that feeling more loved is under your control. But we don't always know the best way to make that happen. So if you're feeling a little under loved this Valentine's season, why not try some of the strategies that Sonya and Harry talked about today? You could get just a tad more curious with a friend, or commit to recognizing your partner's multiplicity a bit more authentically. Or why not try a quick act of kindness to boost your connection and your positive mood? And if you want even more research backed advice about how to feel loved, check out Harry and Sonja's new book, how to Feel the five Mindsets that get you more of what matters Most, which is out this week. If you have thoughts about today's episode or the Science of Love generally, we'd love to hear them. You can email us at HappinessLabushkin FM to tell us what you liked or ask a question. You can also sign up to learn more about the science of happiness and join my free newsletter on my website drlauriesantos.com that's-r l a u r I e santos.com coming up on next week's episode of the Happiness Lab, we'll hear from a social scientist turned dating expert about the right way to find your soul mate. According to the research, if you've tried.

[B]

Dating on apps and there's just this big effort reward gap that's happening where you're swiping and swiping and swiping, you're messaging, you're rarely meeting up. And it makes sense that you're among the 78% of online daters who report experiencing burnout.

[A]

That's the next installment in our series on the science of Love on the Happiness lab with me, Dr. Laurie Santos. Life moves fast at American Military University. They are ready to help you keep up. AMU's flexible, affordable online programs in cybersecurity, IT space studies and more are designed for service members, veterans and their families. AMU provides the support you need to take the next step wherever life takes you. American Military University Built for what's next? Learn more at AMU apus Edu when life gets really busy. Taking care of yourself can feel overwhelming. That's why Premier Protein shakes are my go to. They have 30 grams of protein, 160 calories, no added sugar, and they taste amazing. With flavors from caramel to cake batter, it never feels boring. I love the cafe latte flavor. It's like having an iced coffee milkshake every morning. And Premier Protein isn't just about fitness. It's for getting your time back. Premier Protein powers me to say yes to more, whether that's a quick walk in the morning or a break for yoga at lunchtime. Find your favorite [e-mail] that's P R E M I E R protein.com or at Amazon, Walmart and other major retailers. What better way to kick off the new year than with fresh insights into your health? QuestHealth.com makes it easy to buy your own lab tests online. No doctor visit required for purchase. With over 150 tests to choose from, including the Elite Health Profile, a panel that measures 85 plus health markers across key areas in your body, you can get more clarity into your well being. It's a simple first step towards a happier, healthier year ahead. And for a limited time, you can save on select [e-mail] with code happiness. Ten terms apply. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.