Why Eating Alone is so Bad for You (An International Day of Happiness Special).

Summary

Summary of "Why Eating Alone is so Bad for You (An International Day of Happiness Special)"
The Happiness Lab with Dr. Laurie Santos
Release Date: March 20, 2025

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Introduction to the International Day of Happiness and World Happiness Report

Timestamp: [02:09] - [03:19]

Dr. Laurie Santos opens the episode by celebrating the International Day of Happiness, an annual observance on March 20 aimed at encouraging governments worldwide to prioritize happiness and well-being in their policies. This day also coincides with the release of the latest World Happiness Report. Dr. Santos shares that "Over the next two episodes, we've got lots of highlights, including things you can do right now to improve your life" ([02:09]).

Jan Emanuel Denev, Professor of Economics and Behavioral Science at the University of Oxford and editor of the report, reveals that Finland has been ranked as the happiest country for the year. He adds, "Finland again, but closely followed by Denmark and Iceland and Sweden and the Netherlands, I think" ([02:51]).

Dr. Santos notes significant shifts in the rankings:

• Mexico and Costa Rica have entered the top 10, marking their first appearances ([03:17]).
• Eastern European countries are ascending, while traditional industrial powers like Germany, UK, and the US have dropped, with the US now at 24th place ([03:20]).

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The Impact of Eating Alone on Happiness and Well-being

Timestamp: [03:45] - [05:20]

Dr. Santos emphasizes that beyond country rankings, the report investigates the determinants of life satisfaction, highlighting social connections as a crucial factor. She points out, "One of the big factors might involve eating... who we're eating with" ([03:59]).

Jan Emanuel Denev explains the focus on meal-sharing: "The extent to which people share meals together as a proxy for the quality of our social connections and the quantity of social connections that we have" ([04:24]). He shares alarming statistics:

• In the early 2000s, approximately 1 in 6 Americans dined alone.
• By 2023, this increased to 1 in 4, reflecting a 53% rise.
• Youth are nearly twice as likely to dine alone compared to two decades ago ([04:01]).

Dr. Santos underscores the detrimental effects of eating alone: "Eating alone is pretty bad for you. And a lot of us are finding ourselves having lunch or dinner by ourselves" ([05:09]).

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Personal Reflections and the Importance of Shared Meals

Timestamp: [05:28] - [08:14]

Dr. Laurie Santos consults with Dr. Anne Fischel, a clinical psychologist and family therapist, who shares her personal experiences with family dinners. Dr. Fischel recounts childhood dinners as pivotal moments for learning conflict resolution, fostering communication, and building familial bonds. "These dinners were really important to me as a child... How to diffuse conflict, how even if somebody's quiet, it doesn't mean that they don't have a lot of things on their mind" ([05:38]).

Dr. Fischel discusses the Family Dinner Project, co-founded in 2010, aiming to promote the practice of regular family meals. "The mission is to build on the research-based benefits of family dinner... Family is anybody who makes you feel like home" ([06:58]).

Jan Emanuel Denev inquires about the importance of family dinners, prompting Dr. Fischel to elaborate on both physical and mental health benefits.

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Health and Cognitive Benefits of Family Dinners

Timestamp: [08:14] - [11:03]

Physical Health Benefits: Dr. Fischel highlights that home-cooked meals are typically more nutritious:

• Smaller portion sizes compared to restaurant meals.
• Lower in sugar, salt, and fat.
• Higher in fruits, vegetables, and essential nutrients.
• Associated with better cardiovascular health in young teens and lower asthma symptoms ([08:22]).

Mental Health Benefits: Regular family dinners correlate with significant mental health advantages:

• For children: Lower rates of anxiety, depression, substance abuse, teenage pregnancy, and eating disorders. Enhanced resilience and self-esteem, plus a stronger sense of connection to parents ([09:16]).
• For adults: Reduced instances of depression and anxiety when eating with children or other adults ([09:16]).

Cognitive and Academic Benefits: Dr. Fischel notes that young children exposed to varied vocabulary during family meals develop:

• Larger vocabularies, leading to earlier and more proficient reading skills compared to peers with limited verbal interactions ([10:11]).

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Challenges and Misconceptions Surrounding Family Dinners

Timestamp: [11:03] - [15:02]

Common Barriers: Families often face obstacles that make regular dinners challenging:

• Time Constraints: Busy schedules and fatigue make it difficult to prioritize meals ([11:53]).
• Picky Eaters: Catering to diverse tastes can lead to meal preparation stress and conflict ([11:53]).
• Budget Concerns: Healthy, unprocessed foods are often perceived as expensive.
• Distractions: The pervasive use of gadgets and technology can disrupt meal interactions ([12:38]).

Misconceptions: Dr. Fischel addresses several myths that hinder families from enjoying shared meals:

1. All-Inclusive Presence: Belief that every family member must be present for the entire meal.
2. Dinner Exclusivity: Thinking that only dinner qualifies as a family meal.
3. Perfectionism: The notion that family dinners must be flawless in execution ([12:38]).

She emphasizes flexibility and adaptability:

• Split-Shift Dinners: Having staggered meal times allows family members to dine together in portions ([13:02]).
• Alternative Meal Times: Breakfast, brunch, or even casual snacks can serve as meaningful shared moments.
• Inclusivity Beyond Family: Meals with friends, colleagues, or community members also foster social connections ([13:02]).

Dr. Fischel encourages families to "let go of the perfect and give yourself some more grace" ([15:02]).

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Strategies to Overcome Barriers and Foster Shared Meals

Timestamp: [18:42] - [26:52]

Time Management and Flexibility: Dr. Fischel suggests:

• Flexible Courses: Adjusting meal components to accommodate varying schedules and family members' availability.
• Meal Swaps and Batch Cooking: Preparing multiple meals in advance to ease weekday pressures.
• Prioritizing Meal Times: Advocating for occasional adjustments in extracurricular activities to prioritize family dinners ([21:07], [22:32]).

Simplifying Meal Preparation:

• Utilizing easy, budget-friendly recipes with minimal ingredients and preparation time.
• Encouraging family participation in cooking and cleaning to distribute responsibilities and reduce stress ([23:25], [23:41]).

Managing Technology at the Table: Dr. Fischel recommends:

• Setting Clear Boundaries: Establishing rules for gadget usage, such as placing phones in the center or allowing limited sharing of device-related content.
• Incorporating Technology Positively: Engaging in activities like photo games to include technology in a controlled manner ([26:37]).

Embracing Imperfection:

• Accepting that meals may not always be perfect and focusing on the quality of interactions rather than flawless execution.
• Quick Fixes: Using pre-cut vegetables or rotisserie chickens to save time while maintaining nutritional value ([26:02]).

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Enhancing Meal Engagement Through Games and Activities

Timestamp: [30:56] - [39:56]

Incorporating Playfulness: Dr. Fischel emphasizes the importance of making meals fun and interactive:

• Conversation Games: Such as 20 Questions, Would You Rather, or Guess the Ingredients to spark engaging dialogue.
• Interactive Food Preparation: Encouraging children to participate in cooking processes fosters learning and makes the meal more enjoyable.

Managing Cleanup and Mess: While acknowledging the inevitable mess that comes with playful meals, Dr. Fischel advises:

• Trade-Off Perspective: Recognizing that the benefits of engaging children outweigh the inconvenience of mess.
• Teaching Responsibility: Involving children in cleanup processes as part of the meal routine ([33:25]).

Building Intimate Connections: Encouraging meals beyond the immediate family:

• Inviting Friends and Neighbors: Creating a community-focused dining experience.
• Community Dinners: Organizing group meals in shared spaces like libraries or community centers to foster broader social connections ([35:34], [36:04]).

Handling Conflict at the Table: Dr. Fischel shares strategies to mitigate tensions:

• Conflict Expectations: Acknowledging that some level of conflict is natural and focusing on minimizing unnecessary disputes.
• Guidelines and Breaks: Implementing rules like not interrupting and taking breaks when discussions become heated.
• Light-Hearted Games: Introducing activities like the "hat game" to redirect conversations towards positive and engaging topics ([39:56]).

---

Conclusion and Teasers for Future Episodes

Timestamp: [43:30] - [43:54]

Dr. Santos wraps up the episode by thanking Dr. Fischel and Jan Emanuel Denev for their insights on the significance of shared meals. She teases the next episode, which will delve into another topic from the World Happiness Report: "Are we becoming less trusted? And what does that mean for our well-being?" ([43:40]).

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Notable Quotes

• Jan Emanuel Denev: "Finland again, but closely followed by Denmark and Iceland and Sweden and the Netherlands, I think" ([02:51]).

• Dr. Laurie Santos: "Eating alone is pretty bad for you. And a lot of us are finding ourselves having lunch or dinner by ourselves" ([05:09]).

• Dr. Anne Fischel: "Family is anybody who makes you feel like home" ([06:58]).

• Dr. Anne Fischel: "The average American dinner is only 22 minutes. Doesn't have to be food made from scratch... Let go of the perfect and give yourself some more grace" ([15:02]).

• Dr. Anne Fischel: "Therapy should feel accessible, not like a luxury. And now it's within reach." ([Break for BetterHelp Advertisement])

---

Key Takeaways

1. Shared Meals Enhance Well-being: Regularly eating with others significantly boosts physical health, mental health, and cognitive development, especially in children.

2. Increasing Trend of Eating Alone: A growing number of individuals, particularly youth, are dining alone, which negatively impacts their happiness and life satisfaction.

3. Overcoming Barriers Requires Flexibility: Families can navigate time constraints, dietary preferences, and other obstacles by adopting flexible meal schedules, simplifying meal prep, and involving all members in the process.

4. Incorporate Fun and Engagement: Introducing games and interactive activities during meals can foster deeper connections and make shared dining experiences more enjoyable.

5. Embrace Imperfection and Community: Letting go of the need for perfect dinners and extending meal invitations beyond the immediate family can enhance social bonds and overall well-being.

---

This episode of The Happiness Lab with Dr. Laurie Santos underscores the profound impact that shared meals have on our happiness and overall quality of life. Through expert insights and practical strategies, listeners are encouraged to prioritize and cherish the simple yet powerful act of eating together.

Transcript

[Ben Walter]

The Unshakeables podcast is kicking off season two with an episode you won't want to miss. Join host Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for Business, as he welcomes a very special Guest, chairman and CEO of JPMorgan Chase, Jamie Dimon. Hear about the challenges facing small businesses and some of the oh moments Jamie has overcome. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Chase Mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Message and data rates may apply. J.P. morgan Chase Bank NA Member FDIC Copyright 2025 J.P. morgan Chase & Co.

[Dr. Anne Fischel]

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[Dr. Laurie Santos]

Happy International Day of Happiness the world has been marking March 20 as a day dedicated to happiness for over a decade, part of a worldwide push to get governments to take happiness more seriously and to enact policies that improve our well being. International Day of Happiness also marks the release of the World Happiness Report and the Happiness Lab has been given early access to all the new research this report contains, and over the next two episodes we've got lots of highlights, including things you can do right now to improve your life. The most famous headline grabbing part of each year's World Happiness Report are the country rankings. People around the world are asked on a scale of 1 to 10. How satisfied are you with your life? The crown for the happiest people usually goes to a country somewhere in Scandinavia.

[Jan Emanuel Denev]

And this year, the happiest country is Finland.

[Unknown]

Finland again, but closely followed by Denmark and Iceland and Sweden and the Netherlands, I think.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

This is Jan Emanuel Denev, professor of economics and Behavioral science at the University of Oxford and editor of the World Happiness Report. During the years he studied these country data, he's noticed some changes. The rankings used to be dominated by the big rich nations, but all that's changing.

[Unknown]

Mexico and Costa Rica enter the top 10.

[Jan Emanuel Denev]

Wow.

[Unknown]

Hugely exciting. And kudos to them. Eastern European countries continue their ascent, and that goes at the expense of the large industrial powers. So Germany tumbles out of top 20, the UK tumbles out of the top 20, and the US drops to 24th.

Wow.

And then at the very bottom, Afghanistan still. And this time, average life satisfaction in Afghanistan, 1.34 out of 10. Wow.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

As I said before, the country rankings tend to grab the headlines. But scientists like Jan and I are even more interested in what's causing these differences in life satisfaction. And one of the big factors might involve eating. There's been a ton of discussion about.

[Dr. Anne Fischel]

What we eat, but the World Happiness.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

Report takes a different approach. It focuses on who we're eating with. We tend to eat 14 big meals a week. Who are we spending time with during all those lunches and dinners? Well, it turns out that the answer to that question seems to have a big impact on our well being because the World Happiness Report found that some people share meals with others while some folks are going hungry for company.

[Jan Emanuel Denev]

So why focus on sharing meals?

[Unknown]

The extent to which people share meals together as a proxy for the quality of our social connections and the quantity of social connections that we have, Essentially our social capital, if you will. In the last seven days over the past week, how many of your lunches and dinners were shared with somebody else? So about 1 in 6 people approximately in the United States were dining alone in the early 2000s, 2003 to be precise, and that's going up to one in four people is dining alone in the United states by about 2023. So that's a 53% increase or so in dining alone. But strikingly, mostly youth. To be really precise, youth are almost twice as likely to be dining alone today as compared to two decades. And I thought, wow, these findings are.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

Huge because eating alone is pretty bad for you. And a lot of us are finding ourselves having lunch or dinner by ourselves, even when we have families. Around us at home, colleagues at work.

[Dr. Anne Fischel]

Or peers at college, it's so easy.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

To end up eating alone. So I've turned to an experienced clinical psychologist, family therapist and an advocate for shared meals for advice.

[Unknown]

You could set the clock by my father walking through the door at 7:00 and dinner started at 10 after 7.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

This is Dr. Anne Fischel, Associate professor at the Harvard Medical School.

[Unknown]

He would get out of his suit and put on his play clothes and we would sit down. My mother, my father and my sister. We didn't really do any other rituals. We didn't have Thanksgiving, but dinner was Sankrosanct and my mother didn't like to be stuck in the kitchen. So every meal she made was super quick. So quick that years later, when I hosted my first dinner party, I put a chicken, a roast chicken in and took it out after 30 minutes because I'd never seen her spend more than 30 minutes in the kitchen. And of course it was a bloody mess. But anyway, those dinners were really important to me as a child. And looking back, I realized that a lot of the things that I know now about being a family therapist, I learned around my childhood dinner table. How to diffuse conflict, how even if somebody's quiet, it doesn't mean that they don't have a lot of things on their mind. How important it is to draw everybody out so everybody has a chance to talk. How fun it is to hear stories about family members, to hear gossip about people in the building or the neighborhood. So all of that I learned at my dinner table.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

And such a believer in the virtues of us all eating together that she helped found the Family Dinner Project. I asked her to explain a little bit about it.

[Unknown]

So I was one of the Co founders in 2010 and the mission is to build on the research based benefits of family dinner. The benefits that come from regular family dinners that bring nutritional, cognitive and mental health benefits. I define family really broadly. Family is anybody who makes you feel like home. Family is anywhere that you find community that could be people who aren't related to you. I'm starting to work with patients with dementia and I would say part of their family are the other residents in the memory care unit as well as the caregivers. It can be college age kids eating together in a cafeteria. It can be friends coming over for a tired Wednesday night dinner. And what we found was that 90% of most American families think that family dinners are a great idea. But fewer than 50% of families are eating dinner together. So the Family Dinner project was designed to bridge that gap to make it easier, more doable, simpler, more fun, more meaningful so that more families could harness these research backed benefits of family dinner.

[Jan Emanuel Denev]

And so let's talk about why family dinners are so important. Maybe starting with the physical health benefits. How can our physical health benefit from kind of having more family dinners?

[Unknown]

So there are a lot of nutritional benefits that come from home cooked meals, even if you're not trying that hard. Portion size tends to be smaller than the restaurant equivalents, which may account for lower obesity rates associated with regular family dinners. But also home cooked meals tend to be lower in sugar and salt and fat, and higher in fruits and vegetables and other nutrients. It's also associated with better cardiovascular health in young teens and also associated with lower asthma symptoms, which may be a little puzzling. Maybe it's because sometimes asthma is associated with anxiety, which is lowered if the dinner is relaxing and not so stressful. Maybe it's because parents can remind their kids to take medication. So these are some of the health benefits.

[Jan Emanuel Denev]

And so your anxiety comment also reminds me that there are lots of mental health benefits to family dinners. What are some of those?

[Unknown]

There really are. I mean, there's so many that as a family therapist, I sort of joke I could almost be out of business if more families had regular family dinners. So they're associated with, on the part of kids, lower rates of anxiety and depression, lower rates of substance use and teenage pregnancy, lower rates of eating disorders. And on the upside, with more resilience, more self esteem, and kids reporting that they feel more connected to their parents when they have regular family dinners. And then it turns out there are mental health benefits for adults too. Lower rates of depression and anxiety for adults who eat with their kids, but also adults who eat with other adults. I can get very, very excited about the mental health benefits.

[Jan Emanuel Denev]

Another benefit that was surprising when I first started reading your work is this idea that there are also, especially for kids, these cognitive and academic benefits that come from family dinners. What do we know about those?

[Unknown]

Yeah, so for young kids or preschool, the language that they hear around the dinner table as their parents are sort of casually catching up about the day, those little stories contain 10 times more unusual or rare words than would be expected for a 2 year old or a 3 year old to know. And 10 times more unusual words than would show up in picture books that kids are read to. I think why that's significant is that kids who have larger vocabularies read earlier and more easily than kids who have slimmer vocabularies. I was just quoting this Research to my son who has a two year old grandchild. And she was saying to her parents, what are you two talking about? And I said, that's so great. You know, I hope you told her what you were talking about because that is going to give a little boost to her vocabulary.

[Jan Emanuel Denev]

So it seems like there are all these benefits, but it seems like sometimes when families think about figuring out a family meal, it sometimes feels just totally overwhelming. Sometimes families even treat it with dread. Is this the kind of thing that you hear in the family dinner process?

[Unknown]

Absolutely. I mean, we are such a busy, tired, harried people. You know, most of our kids are doing so many extracurricular activities that it can just feel like one more thing on the to do list. And that is the number one challenge or obstacle. You know, we're too tired, our schedules don't mesh up. And so at the Family Dinner Project, we've spent a lot of time talking to hundreds of thousands of families across the country to find out some workarounds for this common challenge.

[Jan Emanuel Denev]

Talk about some of the barriers you hear about most often. I understand the biggest one is just time, right?

[Unknown]

Time being too tired. Picky eaters, whether that's a partner or a child. What's the point of going to the trouble of making a meal if not everybody's going to eat it? I don't want to be a short order cook and make four different meals. I go to the trouble of making the meal and then all we do is fight or nobody talks. I can't get people to talk. Conflict and tension at the table, budget worries. Healthy food is so expensive. How do I get my dollar to stretch so that I can feed my children Unprocessed healthy food. Distraction at the table. My kids turn on their gadgets and I guess we do too. What do we do about technology at the table? So I'd say those are the recurring obstacles that I hear about over and over.

[Jan Emanuel Denev]

When we hear these barriers, it seems really like hard to get to dinner. But you've argued that part of the barriers comes from our minds, that we have these misconceptions about the things that count as family din. So let's go through some of these misconceptions and see if we can kind of like clear the air. Right. One of the misconceptions is this idea that for a family dinner to really count as a family dinner, everybody has to be there. Everybody has to be there for the whole time. Is this really the case? How should we think about this differently?

[Unknown]

First off, I want to say this isn't a nostalgia project. You know, we're not trying to go back to the spotless kitchens of the 1950s where a mother was home all day baking a, I don't know, a pork loin. Fortunately, that ship has sailed. So family dinner is less about the food than about what happens once the family gathers around the food. So really best to focus on the atmosphere around the dinner table. Conversation, having a good time. You know, I call that the secret sauce of dinner. And you're absolutely right. Family dinner doesn't have to be the whole family sitting down. As one family said to me, we have a rule. No one eats alone. This was a family with five sons, and they did kind of split shift dinners. So they would. Would have two people eating, and then later on, maybe one of those people would join another and so on, and they would have one meal that could be reheated, maybe a stew or a soup. So that's another myth. It doesn't have to be everybody. It doesn't have to be dinner. For some families, dinner time is just beyond the pale. It's just too hectic. It could be family breakfast. It could be a fabulous Sunday brunch with extended family. There are really 16 opportunities in a week. Seven breakfasts, seven dinner dinners, and two weekend lunches. And then they're also intentional snacks. You know, push away from your computer, come down to the kitchen table at 10:00, and let's have apples and hot chocolate. And then it doesn't have to be family. It could be you and a best friend. It could be a Tuesday night group that gets together to talk about books over food. It could be elders at assisted living breaking bread together.

[Jan Emanuel Denev]

It seems like one of the reasons that meeting together to have these meals is so challenging is we put these, like, ridiculous restrictions on ourselves. We get kind of perfectionistic about it. And it seems like your goal at the family dinner project is just to say, we don't have to do this perfectly. We just should do this a little bit more often. So it's kind of family dinner with a bit more grace than we usually give ourselves.

[Unknown]

I love the way you put that. Perfect is really not our friend here. Dinner with a toddler might be five minutes. That's fine. That's something to build on. You know, the average American dinner is only 22 minutes. Doesn't have to be food made from scratch. It doesn't have to be heirloom tomatoes. Doesn't have to be a perfectly roasted chicken. Doesn't have to be perfect manners. Y. Let go of the perfect and give yourself some more grace.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

So eating meals with family, friends and colleagues has a ton of benefits. We're going to take a quick break now, but when we get back, Ann, we'll have more tips on how to overcome all the obstacles that stop us sharing meals.

[Dr. Anne Fischel]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Therapy can feel like a big investment. You've got to get those sessions into your schedule. Take the time to learn the skills you need to feel better, and you've got to pay for it. That's a lot, but it's kind of like going to the gym and your state of mind is just as important as your physical health. Let's talk numbers. Traditional in person therapy can cost anywhere from 100 to $250 per session, which adds up fast. But with BetterHelp online therapy, you can save on average up to 50% per session. With BetterHelp you pay a flat fee for weekly sessions, saving you big on cost and on time. Therapy should feel accessible, not like a luxury. And now it's within reach. Therapy can be helpful for learning positive coping skills. It can help you set boundaries and empower you to be the best version of yourself. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform. BetterHelp is convenient too. You can join a session with the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life. Plus you can switch therapists at any time. Your well being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com Laurie to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E-L-P.com Laurie L-A-U R I E.

[Ben Walter]

The Unshakables podcast is back for season two, and it's kicking off with an episode you absolutely won't want to miss. Host of the show and CEO of Chase for Business Ben Walter welcomes a very special guest Chairman and CEO of of JP Morgan Chase, Jamie Dimon. One of the world's most respected financial thought leaders, Jamie will connect the dots between the current challenges and opportunities facing small business owners and the broader financial landscape. And of course, it wouldn't be an episode of the Unshakables if Jamie didn't share some of the oh moments that he overcame to forge ahead in his own career. You can find this must hear episode and the rest of the upcoming season of the Unshakables wherever you get your podcasts. Learn [e-mail] podcast chase mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Message and data rates may apply. J.P. morgan Chase Bank NA Member FDIC Copyright 2025 J.P. morgan Chase & Co.

[Dr. Anne Fischel]

As a busy professor and podcast host, I spend more time than I'd like to admit eating on the run. I want to make sure I stay healthy and get enough protein, but I don't always have time to prep a healthy meal, and that's when I turn to Premier Protein. With tasty flavors like chocolate, cafe latte and cookie dough, Premier Protein makes it tasty and easy to meet your health goals. Both their ready to drink protein shakes and their protein powders taste great, which means I get a creamy, quick meal that fits perfectly into my busy schedule. Visit premierprotein.com and go to where to Buy to find a retailer near you or to find where to buy online Premier Protein Sweeten the Journey before the.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

Break Dr. Anne Fischel took us through a lot of the things that stop us from enjoying shared meals, be that eating with our loved ones at home, having friends over, or sitting down with others. During our lunch break at work, I asked Ann to break down those obstacles and offer some concrete solutions.

[Unknown]

For a lot of families, it just feels like another thing on their to do list. And you know, partly I like to without being too preachy, I hope to say family meal time is really the most reliable time that we have to look eye to eye, to have fun, to relax, to share stories about our day. You know, we don't sit around campfires telling stories, we don't write letters with stories. So just reminding families what a rich opportunity this is and how it packs really such a punch. And then, you know, really trying to come up with some meals that are very, very easy that you could almost make in your sleep food that you have in your pantry like a pasta with tomato sauce or what I call my yoga eggs that I can make when I get off work at 6 and have to be out the door by 6:30 that are just quick sauteed vegetables with eggs on top. So coming up with those and getting a list of meals from your family so that you won't get bellyaching, you'll have like a rotating list of meals you know are acceptable to every. Maybe they don't all adore every meal, but they'll eat them and you can get onto the more fun things about family dinner and taking stock of whether dinner is really the best time of day for your family. Maybe it's breakfast. Years ago Cheerios came to us and said, we know you're the family dinner project, but how about the family breakfast project? And we came up with breakfast that took seven minutes because that's the amount of time if you don't press your snooze alarm, you can get seven minutes of your day back. And so we built easy meals with a game to play at the breakfast table and a conversation starter. And they were all about anticipating the day rather than reviewing it. If you came up with a weather analogy for the day, what would it be? And then we might check it at the end of the day, or what are you most looking forward to? Or what are you worried about? Or let's write some notes and put them in each other's lunchboxes or lunch bags. So that's another thing for very busy families is to pivot to something else.

[Jan Emanuel Denev]

You've also mentioned the possibility of engaging in what you've called flexible courses. And this is particularly for families that might not have everybody home at the same time. How does this work and why is it so effective?

[Unknown]

Yeah, so I'm thinking about it at different stages of the life cycle. You know, if a family, if a couple has a toddler who goes to sleep at 7 and they want to have a family meal, but they're really not ready to eat, so maybe they enjoy some cut up vegetables or some cheese with their toddler while the toddler has her family dinner, they put their toddler to bed and then they have the rest of their family dinner. Or if you've got kids as they get older coming home late from sports practices, you might have a big nutritional them at 5 o'clock and that's really the time that one parent and a child plays games, has conversation starters, enjoys that meal. But then when the child comes home at 8 o'clock, maybe they join in the family dinner and they have dessert with the other family members. So it's the idea of sort of flexible courses. Depending on the age and stage of the child and how busy the different schedules are, you can sort of mix and match who eats what with whom when.

[Jan Emanuel Denev]

You've also argued that one of the things we need to do to fight against these busy schedules is to really push back on this culture of commitment. I thought this was a really important one. What do you mean there?

[Unknown]

Yeah. So there's a colleague of mine named Bill Doherty who's also a family therapist in Minnesota, and he mounted a kind of statewide pushback program where he would organize parents to go together to talk to the coaches or the director of a play and say, we love what doing our kids love being involved in soccer and Macbeth. But family dinner is really important to all of us for all these different reasons. Could you adjust the rehearsal schedules? Could you make them a little bit later, have them end earlier so our kids can get home for dinner? That was so much more effective than having one squeaky wheel going into. Go to the soccer coach to say, please, please change the schedule. So I think that. That parents really have that power to influence extracurricular activities, and I think they don't deploy it very often.

[Jan Emanuel Denev]

So those are some strategies we can use to push back against this barrier of time.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Jan Emanuel Denev]

Get a little flexible, maybe have some short breaks, push back against some of these commitments. What about strategies for people who just think that the cooking is too much work, that the overwhelming part is really figuring out the dinner part? How can they deal with that?

[Unknown]

Yeah. So I would say our website, the Family Dinner Project, has a ton of great, easy recipes that are eight ingredients or less. Take 30 minutes or less, and families can sign up and get a dinner tonight, which has a recipe and then a conversation starter and a game. And we have Budget Friendly, which they're about $2.10 per person. So there's that. There's also maybe making double or triple batches over the weekend and freezing half of them or two thirds of them so that next week you have. You can just defrost a stew or a soup, and you've got most of your dinner. You can ask other members of your family to help out. That's. I think, a really important part of making dinner more enjoyable is getting help, whether it's with the grocery shopping or cooking part of it, or cleaning up or setting the table. Kids and partners, of course, can participate in this. We've done quite a bit of work with military families who tell us about doing dinner swaps when their spouses are deployed and they're single parents. And what they do is they make four times one meal, and then they meet and they swap, and they come away from the swap with four different meals that they can deploy for the rest of the week. So that's something else.

[Jan Emanuel Denev]

I love that idea so much because I feel like this happens when friends have new babies. Like, I've been involved in lots of these kind of, oh, someone's really busy, they have a new baby. Let's, you know, I just make an extra batch of my lasagna to give to them. And other families do the same thing. But we forget that we don't necessarily need a newborn to be able to use a strategy like that. Like, a bunch of families can do that every single week and get multiple different Interesting meals for like a bunch of families.

[Unknown]

Yeah, absolutely. Or it could be done. I mean, you maybe have to be a military family to be that organized, but you could do it once a week with a friend or a neighbor. So I think there's some sort of lower hanging fruit there.

[Jan Emanuel Denev]

This also strikes me as another spot where just kind of giving ourselves grace and maybe not going for the most perfectionist meals possible can be helpful. Like, I think sometimes we end up putting so much pressure on ourselves that we never do the kind of thing that we want to do. Whereas if we just agreed to do it, you know, 75% at awesome Family dinners, we'd wind up doing it much more often than if we were trying to do it perfectly.

[Unknown]

Yes. And doing some shortcuts, you know, getting vegetables that have been pre cut or a rotisserie chicken, you know, not making a salad, but putting all the different accoutrements for a salad out, plus some tuna fish or some egg salad, and asking family members to assemble their own. And that can be done with tacos, with crepes. That's also a nice strategy for selective eaters. If you've got very different tastes in the families. It's a way to people be able to customize and choose what they want. But it's also kind of a quick dinner, like a charcuterie board kind of dinner.

[Jan Emanuel Denev]

And so those are all ways to kind of fight this barrier that cooking feels like it's too much work. How about the barrier of technology? Especially the fact that it's harder and harder for us to put our tech devices away, even for just, you know, 20 minutes over the dinner table. What are some solutions there?

[Unknown]

Yeah, I did a survey a few years ago and found that parents were twice as likely to use their gadgets at the dinner table. So my first bit of advice is to ask the parents to kind of model the good behavior that they want from their kids. Some families have a very strict no technology policy. You know, everybody put their phones in the middle of the table and anybody who goes to reach for it has to do the dishes. And then some families have a more flexible version of that. And it might look like we can check our gadgets if it's to check a detail that we're having a fight about, like who won the World Series in 1984. And then some families say, well, I want to be able to share a picture I took or a funny email I got. And that seems to have a kind of a different spirit because it keeps the focus on connection at the table. So for those families, the rule is we can't use our phones to connect with people who aren't there. So no texting with others or taking phone calls. But it's okay to share things that came up on your phone today as long as it's to the rest of the table. And then there's even some games that can incorporate technology, like a hot potato selfie. You set the timer and you pass it around and when the timer goes off, you take a selfie and then you set the timer and you pass it around until everybody has taken a selfie and then you know you have a funny little collection of photos from that dinner.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

It's time for a quick break, but we'll be back with more tips from Ann, including advice on how to defuse the dinner table disagreements that can mess up so many meals. The Happiness Lab will be right back.

[Ben Walter]

The Unshakables podcast is back for season two, and it's kicking off with an episode you absolutely won't want to miss. Host of the show and CEO of Chase for Business, Ben Walter welcomes a very special guest Chairman and CEO of JP Morgan Chase, Jamie Dimon. One of the world's most respected financial thought leaders, Jamie will connect the dots between the current challenges and opportunities facing small business owners and the broader financial landscape. And of course, it wouldn't be an episode of the Unshakables if Jamie didn't share some of the, oh, moments that he overcame to forge ahead in his own career. You can find this must hear episode and the rest of the upcoming season of the Unshakables wherever you get your podcasts. Learn [e-mail] Chase mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Message and data rates may apply. J.P. morgan Chase Bank NA Member FDIC Copyright 2025 J.P. morgan Chase & Co.

[Dr. Anne Fischel]

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[Dr. Laurie Santos]

When I think of shared meals with friends and family, my mind usually goes to meal prep. What ingredients do I need and when should I turn the oven oven on? But Dr. Anne Fischel thinks we should actually put more thought into preparing the dinner table. Conversation games and prompts are a great way to do this. It could be old favorites like 20 questions or would you rather Or a suggestion from Ann's Family Dinner Table Project website. A game of guess the ingredients. Just like a meal needs salt and pepper, it also needs playfulness and fun.

[Unknown]

I think we all need more play in our lives and games are are a really great way to do it. I play games in family therapy, often the same games that I play at the dinner table. I don't love competitive games at the dinner table, but games often lead to laughter. They often lead to conversation. Let's go around the table and say a rose, something funny or positive that happened, a thorn, something difficult or unpleasant and a bud, something we hope will happen tomorrow. Or let's tell tell two truths and a lie. You know, tell two stories about something that happened this week and one thing that's just a bold faced lie and others will try to guess which is the made up thing. So ways to get kids to share more without just asking them how was your day? And then I think food itself has so many different properties that we can play with. You know, it can be slippery, it can have different smells, it has different colors and so we can play with color. Ask our kids what meal could we make that's all red or all green or what's a rainbow meal? And that way we can eat our colors which itself is a very nutritious way to eat. Or let's play with space, let's switch seats because families often sit in the same seats night after night. Or let's have a picnic or let's have a dinner in bed. Food is to families like Legos are to elementary school kids as music is to adolescents. It's the source of play. It's one of the few things that we can do with our hands and all our senses and we can make something, something together. How rare is that in 21st century America that we can create something together? And that, to me, is just really fun.

[Jan Emanuel Denev]

I think I'm channeling some busy parent friends of mine who have toddlers and little kids. And as you're talking about playing with colors and playing with foods, I'm hearing in my head what they might say, which is like, oh my gosh, it's going to be messy and I don't have time to clean up. Any advice for kind of making games that avoid the kind of cleanup worries too?

[Unknown]

Yeah, I mean, I tend to have a really high tolerance for mess. I mean, so here's just a small example. To have small kids smear olive oil on vegetables that get roasted at a high temperature will pretty much ensure that those kids will eat those vegetables because they've put their sticky little hands on it and then the vegetables come out pretty crispy. Young kids tend not to like slimy foods. So yes, it's going to be messy. Your kids are going to be covered, hopefully just their hands in oil. But think about the trade off. They're going to eat something really delicious and healthy that you can eat too.

[Jan Emanuel Denev]

And partly they're learning how to cook too.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Jan Emanuel Denev]

You're also kind of weaving in a cooking demonstration while they're doing it.

[Unknown]

That's right. This could, this could pay you back big time when they're a little bit older. And maybe we'll do a little cooking for you.

[Jan Emanuel Denev]

We had a whole series of podcasts about parenting and parenting strategies. And one of the things we often heard is that anthropologists who study parents in other cultures often find that they have kids getting more involved in things like cooking and cleaning and so on. And I think in the US we sometimes don't want our kids to do that because we think they won't do it perfectly or kind of mess it up. But then we lose these really interesting opportunities for teaching our kids because we don't have them involved. It seems like dinner time is yet another domain in which we could be doing this a little bit more.

[Unknown]

Absolutely. It reminds me of two parents, Eileen and Mary, who had a little four year old boy, and one of the moms really did not like mess at all and didn't really like the idea of playing with food and all of that. They would get their vegetables from a co op each week, and one week they got a squash. They opened it up, and the little boy exclaimed, oh, my goodness, it's so different inside compared to outside. And that was this amazing jumping off point for talking about all the different ways you can't, you know, judge a book by its cover. Sort of an analogy. I think for family dinner that there are all kinds of surprises that lie around the table. So it can be the launching pad for lots of interesting conversations, not just about.

[Jan Emanuel Denev]

I think this idea of sharing meals as an intimate experience gets to yet another barrier I see coming up not so much with families, but with maybe single folks or friends who want to get together for meals, which is. I think we're often worried about having people in our personal space. Right. You know, I think about even tonight having someone over for dinner, and my head instantly goes to like, oh, my gosh, I didn't put that stuff away that's in the living room or the kitchen is kind of a mess. Like, any ways to give ourselves grace and just allow our people into these intimate spaces so we can get the benefits of sharing meals even outside the family.

[Unknown]

Yeah. I mean, I think one way is to invite a friend over when you haven't completed making the dinner so that you're bringing them into the making of the dinner. You know, often, particularly on a casual Wednesday night, a friend would like to help. They'd like to help you cut up those last salad ingredients. And I think that creates more of a feeling of we're all in this together and this is a shared meal rather than you're a guest coming in to it. I used to when I would have guests over and they say, what can we bring? And I would say, oh, no, no, no, no, don't bring anything. And then I realized that that was kind of selfish and kind of controlling and kind of perfectionistic. If I could ask them to bring a course, they already would feel more included, and I would also feel less burdened by having to make a meal. I think there's so many different ways to involve outsiders or friends. I think of a military mother who wrote a book called Dinner with Smileys, and her was deployed for a whole year. And every month they would invite somebody from their neighborhood or community to come to dinner and sit in the father's chair. One week it was a coach, one week it was the governor of Maine. I'm sure they felt a pressure to clean up for those meals, but it added such an interesting variation on their regular family dinner. And then I think of a Family. I worked with a single mom who often felt like there wasn't enough liveliness at the table because it was just one adult. And so her friends and her relatives knew that every Wednesday night was an open dinner night and they never knew who would drop by. And she always, you know, made extra for that dinner.

[Jan Emanuel Denev]

I've heard a similar suggestion where it's like you just have one night where it's like, you know, Wednesday is the open night and maybe you don't even make extra dinner. It's like as a friend you can come over, but bring your own. Like bring a leftover, you can microwave it. Don't expect me to be perfect. Right. You know, but this is a night where like doors open and you can. It also reminds me of a suggestion that I got from the journalist Oliver Berkman, who talks about all these things we can do to kind of manage our time with less perfectionism. And he has this idea that he calls scruffy hospitality, which is kind of like you were saying, like you invite people over, but it's like you're going to have to do the dishes, you're going to have to tell me, chop these vegetables, the house is not going to be clean. And we just sort of accept that at the beginning that like we're going to have some hospitality, we're going to have some shared mealtime, but it's going to be pretty scruffy, right?

[Unknown]

Yeah. Like set the expectations where they should, should be.

[Jan Emanuel Denev]

And it seems like that's just a message for all of this work. Right. There's so many benefits if we could find more ways to share meals broadly, even beyond our family. But to do that we really just have to set our expectations a little bit less perfectionistically.

[Unknown]

Yes. One thing that we've been doing for, well, 15 years at the Family Dinner Project is hosting big community dinners. And these are anywhere where families gather. Libraries, military bases, homeless shelters, clinics, teaching kitchens. There are often groups of families who don't know each other, but who come to know each other in a 90 minute dinner where we cook together, we eat together, we play games, we have conversation jars on the tables and people reach in and ask whimsical or silly or serious things of one another. And then I talk to the parents or the caregivers and say, what do you do? Well, when it comes to family dinner and what are your obstacles? And now let's take some of those obstacles and, and use the wisdom in this group to share our workarounds and hacks. That's really Where I've learned probably the most about how families find ways to have dinner, even though it's really not that easy.

[Jan Emanuel Denev]

So another barrier lots of families face is that sometimes around the dinner table, there's tension. You know, maybe big tension. We have, you know, political disagreements, but even like, little tension. I'm just like, pissy at you, mom, for that thing you said to me. Any strategies for diffusing that?

[Unknown]

Yeah. So I wanna start with a piece of research on that which I conducted during the pandemic. One of the only good things I can say about the pandemic is that it gave a naturalistic opportunity to study what happens when families have more dinner with one another. So something like 60%, 70% of families shared family dinners during the pandemic. And what I found was that as frequency increased, the positive qualities of family dinner also increased. So parents reported that they talked more about gratitude, they laughed more, they talked about their identity as a family. They also shared more conversation about the news and public events. They used zoom to connect with friends and family. But they also had more conflict and tension at the table. And at first I was sort of upset by that finding. And then I, I thought, well, of course, if you're spending more time with your family, but dinner is a canvas. It's an opportunity to do what families do. And one of the things they do is have conflict and fight. And I will say that the positive qualities increased way more than the negative ones. So first thing I would say is some conflict and tension is to be expected. And I know growing up we had drag out fights about politics. I love those fights and I think my parents did too. So, you know, for some families, those kinds of philosophical. Philosophical or political fights are really part of their identity as a family. But in general, I think there are ways to minimize conflict. Probably not the best time to bring up topics, you know, are hot button issues for your kids. Maybe don't talk about that. D they got in chemistry. Maybe go easy on teaching table manners. That makes everybody tense. Just focus on the manners that matter, that everybody can do better. You know, not interrupting each other or maybe not talking with a mouthful of food. But who cares about the elbows on the table table. Other things that kind of mitigate against conflict is having fun playing games, having conversations that make us laugh or think. And yes, there can be guidelines that are offered. Like we have a rule at the dinner table. Let's just remember that when one person is talking, other people don't talk over them or interrupt. Gosh, this is getting a little heated. Let's just step away for a moment and take a break or let's do a quick breathing exercise and just calm down for a minute. I thought about conflict a lot and often do at Thanksgiving, which is of course after elections and in 2016 I was worried about my own conflict at the Thanksgiving table. And I came up with a game that I've now played every Thanksgiving that I call the hat game. And as people come in, I have a hat and post its at the table table and I have a prompt and I ask everybody to answer the prompt anonymously. So that first year it was what character in a children's book did you most identify or do you most identify with or want to be? Or what toy did you most love as a child or love now as a child? And people would answer them and then I brought the hat to the table and pulled out the post its and each person tried to get guess which person went with which answer and then that person could expound if they wanted. But it meant that for like 10 or 15 minutes we had a light hearted, interesting conflict free conversation.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

Thanks to Dr. Anne Fischel and Jan Emanuel Denev for walking us through the importance of sharing mealtime with other people. In the next episode, we'll examine another.

[Jan Emanuel Denev]

Topic raised by the report.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

Are we becoming less trusted? And what does that mean for our well being? All that next time on the Happiness lab with me, Dr. Laurie Santos.

[Dr. Anne Fischel]

Say you've always wanted to go on a luxurious yoga retreat. Here's the thing. If you get smart with your money, you can do things like that. With Empower, you can start making the most out of your money so you can go out and live a little. Isn't that why we work so, so hard to have some fun with our money, like treating yourself to something special or spontaneously doing something extra for a loved one? So use Empower and get good at money so you can be a little bad. Join their 19 million customers [e-mail] not an Empower client, paid or sponsored. This podcast is supported by BetterHelp, offering licensed therapists you can connect with via video phone or chat. Here's BetterHelp head of clinical operations, Hes Yu Jo discussing who can benefit from therapy.

[G]

I think a lot of people think that you're supposed to be going to therapy once you're like having panic attacks every day. But before you get to that point, I think once you start even noticing that you feel a little bit off and you can't maintain this harmony that you once had in relationships that could be a sign that maybe you want to go talk to somebody. Somebody. There's always a benefit in talking to someone because we can all benefit from improved insight about ourselves and who we are and how we behave with other people. So if you're human, that's like a good indicator that you could benefit from talking to somebody.

[Dr. Anne Fischel]

Find out if therapy is right for you. Visit betterhelp.com today. That's betterhelp.com as a busy professor and podcast host, I spend more time than I'd like to to admit eating on the run. I want to make sure I stay healthy and get enough protein, but I don't always have time to prep a healthy meal, and that's when I turn to Premier Protein. With tasty flavors like chocolate, cafe latte and cookie dough, Premier Protein makes it tasty and easy to meet your health goals. Both their ready to drink protein shakes and their protein powders taste great, which means I get a creamy quick meal that fits perfectly into my busy schedule. Schedule. Visit premier protein.com and go to where to Buy, to find a retailer near you or to find where to buy online. Premier Protein Sweeten the journey.