Why More Stuff Doesn’t Make You Happier

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Happiness Lab with Dr. Laurie Santos

Episode: Why More Stuff Doesn’t Make You Happier
Date: April 27, 2026
Host: Dr. Laurie Santos, Pushkin Industries

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the misconception that acquiring more material possessions—money, clothes, gadgets, cars—leads to lasting happiness. Dr. Laurie Santos, drawing on psychology research and thoughtful personal stories, reveals why the pursuit of "more stuff" often fails to fulfill us. Supported by guest experts and real-life examples, Laurie examines how letting go, decluttering, and valuing experiences over possessions can bring deeper satisfaction and well-being.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Dopamine Trap of Buying Stuff

• The Pursuit vs. The Prize
  Dr. Laurie Santos recounts a personal anecdote about unexpectedly renting a flashy Mustang convertible, which sparked joy in the moment but also prompted questions about longer-term happiness (03:55).
• Bruce Hood’s Collecting Habit
  Bruce Hood (Professor of Psychology, University of Bristol) describes his obsession with collecting horror movie posters, explaining the thrill is more in the hunt (the dopamine rush of bidding and winning) than in possession itself (09:06).
  • Quote (Bruce Hood, 09:06):
    “I used to get a real buzz and the thrill if I got it, and then complete desperation and disappointment if I lost out to some other guy... Nothing compared to the kind of exhilaration of winning the auction.”
• Self-Knowledge vs. Behavior
  Even understanding the science doesn’t exempt us from being caught up in consumption. Bruce recognizes this is an evolved drive, not easily overcome by awareness alone (10:07).

Why We Want More Than We Need

• Signaling and Status
  Laurie and Bruce discuss evolutionary psychology’s “signaling” theory: just as peacocks flaunt extravagant tails to attract mates, humans use material displays (cars, clothes, gadgets) to signal status to others (10:35–11:03).
• Societal Obsession
  Storage units now outnumber McDonald’s, illustrating Western culture’s fixation on accumulating possessions (11:27).

The Limits of Material Happiness—the Eastland (Easterlin) Paradox

• Economic Growth ≠ Increased Happiness
  Bruce explains the “Easterlin Paradox,” which shows that even as national GDP rises, average reported happiness does not keep pace (12:00).
  • Quote (Bruce Hood, 12:00):
    “People do enjoy the process of shopping. But…that initial buzz I get from doing it doesn’t last very long.”
• The Diderot Effect
  Acquiring one high-status item can devalue everything else you own, kickstarting a cycle of upgrading and dissatisfaction (12:37).
  • Quote (Bruce Hood, 12:37):
    “As soon as you get something of outstanding quality, it makes all your other possessions look pretty rubbish…as soon as he took on board this new thing of high status, that changed it. It almost controlled him.”

Experiences Over Things: The Science of Happier Spending

• Hedonic Adaptation
  Amit Kumar (Assistant Professor, UT Austin) argues that the joy of new things fades rapidly due to adaptation; soon, that new car becomes just another car (18:20).
  • Quote (Amit Kumar, 18:20):
    “Maybe they make us happy for a little while, but over time we just stop deriving as much satisfaction from them.”
• Comparison & Envy
  Material purchases also expose us to negative social comparisons, further eroding happiness (19:29).
• Why Experiences Win
  Spending on experiences—travel, meals, concerts—creates anticipation, richer memories, and stronger social bonds.
  • Quote (Amit Kumar, 20:21):
    “Money could make us happier if we made different decisions or choices with what we did with it.”
  • Quote (Amit Kumar, 21:26):
    “Waiting [for experiences] is just a more positive state. We tend to look forward to what’s to come with great excitement and delight.”
  • Experiences also inspire more gratitude, which in turn promotes generosity and deeper well-being (22:41).

Minimalism in Action: Kate Flanders’ Journey

• The Shopping Ban
  Author Kate Flanders describes how chronic buying led to overwhelming debt and a home filled with unused stuff (28:07). She imposed a strict year-long shopping ban—only essentials allowed (29:33).
• Decluttering and Emotional Lightness
  Getting rid of 50% of her possessions brought a literal and emotional lightness.
  • Quote (Kate Flanders, 29:59):
    “When I walked into a room, not only did it feel—like lighter is a good word for it—but…it also actually just felt more inviting.”
• Shifting Focus to Experiences
  Freed from overspending and “stuff,” Kate finally realized long-held dreams: full-time writing, traveling, and attending events with friends (31:08).
  • Quote (Kate Flanders, 31:38):
    “Traveling made sense to me, like, made me feel more like myself than anything else.”
  • She contrasts the fleeting memory of possessions with enduring, sensory-rich memories of experiences (31:54).

Keeping What Matters

• Purposeful Possessions
  Kate now owns only items that “serve a purpose or have important meaning”—such as a desk she built with her dad, tying even objects to significant experiences (33:18).
  • Quote (Kate Flanders, 33:18):
    “One of the things that I kept was my desk, and that’s because I built it with my dad. You just have more appreciation in general for the things I think that you understand where they came from.”

Reframing Existing Possessions

• Transcending the Material-Experiential Divide
  Amit Kumar points out that many items, like a bicycle or a car, can be “vehicles for experiences” if we focus on how we use them (33:58).
  • Quote (Amit Kumar, 33:58):
    “If you think about going out on the trails, then all of a sudden that particular purchase might be something that inspires more happiness within you as a result of construing it in terms of its experiential nature.”
  • Laurie reframes her own beat-up Nissan as a “doorway to new experiences” rather than a source of envy or dissatisfaction (34:35–36:15).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Bruce Hood on over-collecting:
  “Knowledge is not enough. You can know these things very objectively and yet still be a victim to the same sort of mechanisms.” (10:07)

• Laurie on the Diderot Effect:
  “If it entered into my life on a more permanent basis, I might fall prey to that Diderot effect. Even more, I might wind up changing the other things in my life to fit with the fact that I now owned a swanky car.” (13:12)

• Amit Kumar on social impact:
  “When people think about their experiences rather than possessions they've bought, they end up being more generous to others. They end up treating other people better.” (22:41)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:55 – 06:30: Mustang anecdote; the fleeting joy of material “upgrades”
• 07:19 – 13:12: Bruce Hood on collecting, evolutionary signaling, and the Diderot Effect
• 18:20 – 22:41: Amit Kumar explains hedonic adaptation, why experiences trump possessions, and the power of gratitude
• 28:07 – 34:35: Kate Flanders’ journey from chronic consumerism to minimalist, experience-driven happiness
• 33:58 – 36:15: Reframing possessions as “vehicles for experience”; Laurie's realization and closing reflections

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Key Takeaways

• Acquiring more stuff gives a brief dopamine rush, but the happiness is fleeting.
• Evolutionary psychology and social comparison drive much of our buying behavior.
• Adaptation and the Diderot Effect ensure that new things quickly lose their appeal, sometimes making us less satisfied than before.
• Investing in experiences (big and small, solo or shared) brings more lasting pleasure, gratitude, and connection.
• Minimalism and decluttering, by reducing “stuff,” can create space for well-being and authentic living.
• Reframing the purpose or use of our material possessions (making them experience-facilitators) can also boost happiness.

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This episode offers science-backed wisdom and inspiring personal stories to challenge the “more is happier” myth—showing that meaning, connection, and joy grow best not in packed closets, but in the rich tapestry of lived experiences.

Transcript

[Kate Flanders]

Foreign.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

Hey Happiness Lab listeners. Welcome back to our special series on spring cleaning, your Happiness. We're continuing our deep dive into the Happiness Lab closets to find all the show's well being boosting insights that you might have missed. In today's episode Throwback, we'll tackle the happiness boost that comes from literal spring cleaning that is decluttering all your material stuff. In this episode you'll meet Kate Flanders, a writer who went deep into debt so she could buy all the clothes, books and gadgets she thought would make her happier. But spoiler buying all that stuff didn't work. But there was something that throwing it all away. So get ready because in this classic Happiness Lab episode I, your intrepid host will tackle a spooky British barn overflowing with movie monsters and a swanky California convertible ride with bad 80s music tunes. All so that I can teach you about the joy of letting go. That's all coming up when this Throwback episode returns, right after this quick break.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

This is an I Heart Podcast.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

Guaranteed human this episode is brought to you by Choiceology and an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Hosted by the amazing Katie Milkman, behavioral scientist and author of the best selling book how to Change, Choiceology is a show about the psychology and economics behind our decisions. Each episode shares the latest research in behavioral science and dives into themes like the power of self control, shaping your mindset for success, navigating new beginnings, and why starting over can feel so hard. Katie talks to authors, athletes, Nobel laureates and everyday people about why we make irrational choices and how to make better choices to help avoid costly mistakes. You'll learn about tools and strategies to help improve your decision making and a ton of other fantastic things about the mind. Listen and [e-mail] podcast or find it wherever you listen to your shows. Hi Dr. Lori Santos from the Happiness Lab here. Ever been at the pharmacy counter and your mind goes blank when the pharmacist asks any questions? That's why you need to listen to beyond the Script from CVS Pharmacy and iHeartMedia. Hosted by Dr. Jake Goodman, each episode features real conversations with CVS pharmacists, the health experts you see most, breaking down the questions you wish you'd asked, from which meds may not mix well to what vaccines you need before a big trip. They'll bust myths, decode trends, and share practical advice you can actually use. Listen to beyond the script on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts brought to you in part by Vital Farms. Have you ever traced your eggs back to the farm they came from? Vital Farms eggs are tended by farmers who actually care. Vital Farms hens enjoy fresh air, sunshine and year round outdoor access. On the side of each carton of Vital Farms eggs, you'll find the name of the farm where your eggs were laid. Vital Farms is a certified B corporation with a sense of purpose. Their goal is to improve the lives of people, animals and the planet through food. Look for the black carton in the egg aisle and visit vitalpharms.com to learn more. Vital Good Eggs no shortcuts if your finance team spends more time finding data than using it. If there's one entity here and one here and one here and one here. If scaling your business feels like starting over, you need the Intuit ERP. Intuit Enterprise Suite is the AI native ERP solution that's powerful, painless and proven.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

Learn more at intuit.com erp. Pickup location SFO pick up time 12:30pm if there's one car you absolutely have to rent when you go to San Francisco, it has to be compact, two four door Ford Focus or similar. I'm not really a car person. Automatic transmission? Yes. Aircon? Yes. My regular ride is a slightly scruffy 2011 Nissan Sentra dual Airbus. Awesome. If you can't picture that in your head, that's okay. I'm not sure anyone can. It's kind of a dull silver color and relatively anonymous. Lost damage Weaver no Child seat? No. When I travel for work, I usually rent the cheapest, boxiest and most ordinary car on the lot. Prepaid gas, no confirm. Rental done. But when my producer Ryan and I arrived at the San Francisco airport last fall, we were in for a bit of a surprise. The woman at the car rental place apologized profusely. They'd run out of normal boxy compact cars and intermediates and full sizes. Would it be okay, she asked, if instead of the car I booked, we accepted at no extra cost. A bright red Mustang convertible. We and our amazing car took San Francisco by storm. We crossed and recrossed the Golden Gate Bridge and soaked up envious glances from teenage boys at crosswalks and blasted 80s synth pop on repeat the entire time. Instead of a dull trip into the city for work, Ryan and I had the time of our lives, laughing like idiots and making memories. All because of the car. That Mustang experience got Ryan thinking. He's always kind of hated my Sentra. He wants me to get a newer, safer car. Especially since my Nissan does have a few Bodywork issues. I kinda hit a huge rock. So Ryan started texting to make his case. Get a Mustang. Get a Mustang. Get a Mustang. This carried on and on and on. One text contained a single word, all caps with an exclamation point. Mustang. I know Ryan only wants what's best for me, but I have a mostly working car now. And the science suggests that giving in and buying a newer, more expensive vehicle would have a surprising effect on my well being. It might hurt my happiness rather than help it. Our minds are constantly telling us what to do to be happy. But what if our minds are wrong? What if our minds are lying to us, Leading us away from what will really make us happy? The good news is that understanding the science of the mind can point us all back in the right direction. You're listening to the Happiness Lab with Dr. Laurie Santos.

[Bruce Hood]

I've had a lifelong fascination with the supernatural. I wrote a book about that. My first book was about why we believe in the supernatural.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

This is Bruce Hood, a professor of psychology at the University of Bristol in the uk. Like me, Bruce is intrigued by some of the weirder, more irrational parts of the human mind. But I didn't realize how personal that interest was until I visited his house for the first time. You see, Bruce lives in a lovely converted barn in a quaint, quiet part of the English countryside. And so I was expecting the inside of his house to look rather cozy. But that wasn't what I saw when I first opened the door. Everywhere I looked there was blood, claws and fangs, which is just the way Bruce likes it.

[Bruce Hood]

I've loved horror movies and that sort of genre from a very early age. I became obsessional about buying vintage movie posters with werewolves and vampires and all that sort of thing.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

Bruce was able to actualize his childhood horror obsession once he finally got a professor level salary. That was when he discovered the miracle of online auctions.

[Bruce Hood]

I have over 100 posters now and there's no way, I don't think anyone's got a house. Well, not unless you're very wealthy, have got a house so you can easily accommodate them all. So a lot of them, I'm afraid, are just stored away. But I have framed most of them and as many as I can, and they're all over the walls.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

You have over 100 of these?

[Bruce Hood]

I have over 100, yeah. And they're like meter by 2 meters big. So they're not little things, they're big posters.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

Why would anyone buy more movie posters than they could possibly display? Bruce realized that it wasn't really, the posters he loved so much. It was the pursuit.

[Bruce Hood]

I would search on ebay and you can see the bidding line, and you could offer a bid, and then you see someone's outbid you, and then you get frustrated. I used to get real buzz and the thrill if I'd got it, and then complete desperation and disappointment of I'd lost out to some other guy. And of course, the posts would turn up weeks later, and it was great getting them, but nothing compared to the kind of exhilaration of winning the auction.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

That thrill we get from buying a new prize on ebay is well understood by science. It's caused by a neurotransmitter called dopamine. Whenever we buy something exciting, the reward

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

areas of our brain release a bunch

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

of dopamine, which not only triggers a pleasurable sensation, but also makes it more likely that we'll repeat the behavior. Evolutionarily speaking, dopamine is there to ensure that we keep doing all the important things like eating and having sex. But nowadays, dopamine can just as easily make us chase after things that we don't really need for our survival. Like, for example, more vintage horror movie posters than can actually fit in your house. Of course, Bruce understands the science of dopamine.

[Bruce Hood]

Knowledge is not enough. You can know these things very objectively and yet still be a victim to the same sort of mechanisms. So at least I kind of understood what was driving it. But I got to a point where I literally could not buy or put up anymore. And after that, I kind of started to realize, well, this over consumption thing, this possession thing, is really interesting.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

Bruce began to study the science of why we like to accumulate so much stuff. This research became the basis of his recent book, why We Want More Than We Need.

[Bruce Hood]

We Buy for a number of reasons. There's a whole area of evolutionary theory called signaling. The poster child for signaling, of course, is the peacock. Why does it have such a silly tail? It costs so much in terms of energy. It's not very efficient. It makes them very vulnerable to a attack. And yet these animals have evolved this elaborate display because it signals to potential mates that they have good genes. So rather than fighting or learning to run away or whatever, they've developed these signaling behaviors.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

Like peacocks strutting their stuff, we humans are naturally drawn to shiny cars, fancy clothes, and other status symbols. These things act as outward signs of how awesome we are on the inside. And so our species really likes to accumulate stuff. So much so that we've gone beyond just filling our shelves and closets. And attics and garages.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

We've fueled a whole new growth.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

Self storage rentals.

[Bruce Hood]

I mean, there are more storage units than there are McDonald's. It's just ridiculously, you know, a symptom of a culture which has become obsessed with possessions. So that's why I called the book Possess, because it's like this demon, this little imp in our mind, telling us to buy things and don't throw it away because it might be valuable one day.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

But is all this purchasing really making us happier, at least beyond the initial pursuit? I mean, it doesn't really seem like it. Which poses a bit of a paradox, since many scholars initially assumed that increased material wealth would lead to happiness.

[Bruce Hood]

The Eastland Paradox was identified by Richard Easterlin back in the early 70s, and he noted that if you look at the gross national product of the US in particular, as it's been rising, it doesn't seem to have a corresponding change in increased happiness. And he said, that's the paradox. We should be happier. You may have heard the term retail therapy, and there's a sort of bit of truth in that. People do enjoy the process of shopping. But just like me and my posters, that initial buzz I get from doing it doesn't last very long.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

When the buzz of buying wears off, when that dopamine rush in our brain subsides, those new possessions can make us feel even sadder than we did before.

[Bruce Hood]

The trouble is, is that as soon as you get something with outstanding quality, it makes all your other possessions look pretty rubbish. So this is called the Diderot effect, after the French philosopher. He really wanted a dressing gown and he spent a lot of money on it, and he really coveted it and he got it and he loved it. And he looked around, everything else looked a bit shabby. So then he realized he had to go and change everything else in this household. And he started to spend more money than he had. And he realized that in the past he had control of all his possessions. But as soon as he took on board this new thing of high status, that changed it. It almost controlled him.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

I experienced a hint of the Diderot effect when we rented that swanky Mustang. The valet at our hotel did look at me and Ryan a little oddly, like he was surprised that the people who dropped off that kind of car had the crumpled clothes and crappy luggage that we did. As we rode the elevator to our rooms, I thought back to my beat up Nissan with its squeaky windshield wipers and sticky coffee cup holders. None of that had really bothered me when I drove it in earlier that morning, but now my own car seemed, well, pretty crappy. I mean, don't get me wrong, the Mustang was super fun to ride around in, but if it entered into my life on a more permanent basis, I might fall prey to that Diderot effect. Even more, I might wind up changing the other things in my life to fit with the fact that I now owned a swanky car. As the name of Bruce's book suggests, my new ride might end up possessing me far more than I possessed it. The good news is that there is a way to enjoy the happiness boost that Ryan and I got from the Mustang ride without ending up on a treadmill of buying a new car every few years. And we'll talk about that science backed strategy when the Happiness Lab returns in a moment.

[LabCorp Representative]

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[Dr. Laurie Santos]

this episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. May is mental Health Awareness Month and I love the idea of using this month as an opportunity to check in with yourself. Are you feeling overwhelmed or anxious or stuck about something? If so, take this month as a reminder that whatever it is that you're going through, you don't have to navigate it alone. Having someone with you to listen to, understand and support you can make all the difference. If you're thinking about talking to someone professionally, give BetterHelp a try. BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the United States. Plus, BetterHelp has a therapist match commitment. BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so that you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences, and if for some reason you aren't happy with your therapist match, you can switch to a different therapist at any time from their tailored recommendations. You don't have to be on this journey alone. Find support and have someone with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% [e-mail] Laurie that's betterhelp.com Laurie Seeking more brightness these days? Research shows that simply gazing at bodies of water like the Pacific ocean can help lower your heart rate and and increase feelings of relaxation. Consider a trip to sunny San Diego. Put your toes in the sand, smell and feel the ocean breeze. Spending time in nature can be great for your mental health and as you soak up the bright side, feel your taste buds, your health and your wellness with a local cuisine fueled by San Diego's year round farm fresh produce. San Diego isn't just a destination, it's a disposition. Come to the bright side. Plan your trip to San Diego by going to sandiego.org funded in part with City of San Diego Tourism Marketing District assessment funds it's Dr. Laurie Santos. You've probably heard me talk about how our brains benefit from even small changes in environment. There's strong research showing that time in nature, even brief time, can lower stress and improve mood. The challenge is that most of us don't have the time or energy to plan an entire outdoor trip from scratch. That's why I love what auto Camp is doing. They combine the restorative benefits of being outdoors with the comforts of a boutique hotel. You can stay in a beautifully designed Airstream or cabin surrounded by trees and open sky, sleep in a genuinely comfortable bed and enjoy spa inspired bathrooms that make it easy to fully unwind. Each location also features a beautiful clubhouse with activities, food and beverage options, and inviting lounge spaces designed for gathering and connecting so you get fresh air and stargazing without giving up the ease that helps your nervous system truly settle. If you've been craving a simple reset or a meaningful way to reconnect with people you care about, check out Otto Camp. It's a thoughtful way to get the well being boost nature gives us with locations from Yosemite to the Catskills. Find your Perfect [e-mail].

[Amit Kumar]

So maybe they make us happy for a little while, but over time we just stop deriving as much satisfaction from them.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

I wanted to find some evidence based strategies to help me decide about this car situation, and so I decided to call a world expert on happier purchasing.

[Amit Kumar]

I'm Amit Kumar. I'm an assistant professor of marketing and psychology at the University of Texas at Austin.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

Amit studies the way our minds mispredict the pleasure we get from what we buy. And so I told him about my car dilemma. Based on his research, he predicted that any happiness boost I'd derive from buying that Mustang wouldn't last much longer than the new car smell. If you've listened to other episodes of the Happiness Lab, you might know the reason why. A phenomenon that psychologists have christened hedonic adaptation. We just get used to stuff far quicker than we think.

[Amit Kumar]

What seemed kind of new and exciting at first, that excitement tends to fade. I guess the other thing is that it's always there in front of you, so when it malfunctions or if something goes wrong, you're just kind of bothered by that.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

But there's a second reason that our possessions don't make us as happy as we think. That green eyed monster is always with us.

[Amit Kumar]

People are often kind of peeved when they find out that someone else has a nicer TV than they do, or if they have a fancier wardrobe. It can be similarly annoying to find out that someone who has the same thing that you do, like the same gadget that you have or something like that, paid substantially less for it. So these sorts of destructive comparisons can stand in the way of happiness.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

So if I caved in and splurged on a new car, not only would every scratch and dent make me sadder, but I'd also unwittingly enter an arms race with my friends and neighbors comparing my purchase to whatever car they had in their driveways. And even a new Mustang would look crappy next to my colleague's brand new Tesla. But Amit's research shows that there's an alternative kind of purchase we can make that can bring us some lasting joy.

[Amit Kumar]

Money could make us happier if we made different decisions or choices with what we did with it.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

To get the most happiness bang for our buck, we should make purchases that are experiential rather than material.

[Amit Kumar]

So experiential purchases are essentially something that you spend money on that's an event or a series of events that you live through. So basically it's money that you spend on doing things like travel, vacations, dining out, going to concerts, sporting events.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

If you're anything like me, you might feel a bit bad about spending more of your money on meals and trips. It can feel a little frivolous, so

[Amit Kumar]

in some sense they might seem fleeting. But in a way, this is actually a benefit of experiences compared to possession. So people do tend to habituate to get used to things and derive less value from them over time. With an experience that's already over, that doesn't seem to happen.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

But experiences don't just make us feel better after we finish them. Experiential purchases can also make us happier than material possessions, even before we get to enjoy them.

[Amit Kumar]

One thing that's interesting about waiting is that waiting can also sometimes feel good. So when it comes to material possessions, it feels more like impatience or anxiety or frustration. But with respect to experiential purchases, waiting is just a more positive state. We tend to look forward to what's to come with great excitement and delight. We look at restaurant menus and we go through our travel plans in advance. That tends to feel good instead of bad.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

But Amit has found that the biggest reason experiences bring us more joy is that they aren't normally a solitary activity.

[Amit Kumar]

So if your purchases are promoting social interaction, if you're talking about the things that you've done, or if you're doing them with other people, that's one reason they're gonna make you happier than some material items that you might buy.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

And experiential purchases don't just keep us social while we're doing them. They also let us connect with people afterwards too.

[Amit Kumar]

So if you go on a vacation somewhere, there's all sorts of things that you can talk about, what you did, what you saw, who you were with, what you ate. There's just lots of directions to go. It's a bit harder with material goods.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

And sharing stories about things you've done or just reliving the memories also has another happiness boosting effect.

[Amit Kumar]

It turns out that sort of, generally speaking, reflecting on experiential purchases inspires more gratitude than reflecting on material purchases. So people are more grateful for what they've done than for what they have. Part of the reason that this is particularly interesting is because of what gratitude tends to predict. So researchers have found that feeling grateful is associated with a whole host of positive outcomes. So in some fun studies we've done, for instance, we found that when people think about their experiences rather than possessions they've bought, they end up being more generous to others. They end up treating meeting other people better as a result of reflecting on their experiential purchases.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

All this goes to say, experiences, be they big or small, they beat material purchases on literally every happiness metric Amit has studied. And yet we still can't seem to break our habit of filling our closets and attics and garages with so much stuff. So after the break, I'll introduce you to a person who has taken this research to heart. Someone who became so weighed down by her possessions that she decided to get rid of nearly all of them and became a lot happier as a result.

[Kate Flanders]

If I'm really honest, if I didn't love it or use it, it was gone.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

The happiness lab will be right.

[LabCorp Representative]

Cervical cancer is one of the most preventable cancers we face today. Yet more than 13,000 women will be diagnosed in 2026 and over 4,000 will lose their lives. Many of these cases happen because screening wasn't done in time. Even with the HPV vaccination, regular screening is still essential. More than half of new cervical cancer cases occur in women who have never or rarely been screened. At LabCorp, we're here to support those conversations and prevention. Visit our Women's health page on labcorp.com

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

seeking more brightness these days, research shows that simply gazing at bodies of water like the Pacific Ocean can help lower your heart rate and increase feelings of relaxation. Consider a trip to sunny San Diego. Put your toes in the sand, smell and feel the ocean breeze. Spending time in nature can be great for your mental health and as you soak up the bright side, feel your taste buds, your health and your wellness. With a local cuisine fueled by San Diego's year round farm fresh produce, San Diego isn't just a destination, it's a disposition. Come to the bright side. Plan your trip to San Diego by going to sandiego.org funded in part with City of San Diego Tourism Marketing District Assessment Funds. We talk a lot on this show about burnout and how easy it is to keep pushing without ever truly recovering. Real restoration usually requires a pause. Not another productivity hack, but a change of environment. Auto Camp is designed for exactly that kind of reset. It's all the amenities of a boutique hotel, but in nature you stay in thoughtfully designed outdoor accommodations set in beautiful natural environments with comfortable beds, spa, inspired showers and a central clubhouse for gathering and connecting. It's all the grounding benefits of the outdoors without the stress of planning or roughing it. If you're overdue for a real break, explore Otto Camp's nine locations and iconic outdoor [e-mail] this message is in partnership with Simple Mills. On our show we talk a lot about how small choices can have a big impact on your well being. And one choice that often gets overlooked? The snacks you reach for during the day. It might sound simple, but the right snack can help you feel energized and focused. Two things that make sticking to healthy habits so much easier. When your body feels good, your mind follows. That's why I feel good talking about simple mills Almond flour crackers. They are made with real nutrient rich ingredients like almond flour, sunflower seeds and flaxseeds. And the bonus these crackers have a unique crunchy texture. They're absolutely delicious and I promise they'll make you look forward to snack time. We all know that unhealthy snacking can derail even the best intentions. Simple Mills crackers do the opposite. Now, I hope you know I'm not a big ad speak person, but when they say Simple Mills crackers taste like sunshine in every bite, it's actually a pretty good description. They're light, satisfying, and instead of weighing you down, you feel a little more energized. Choosing snacks that fuel your body well is one of those small but powerful steps that make other healthy habits stick. And if you're looking for something filled with its own little reward system, check out Simple Mill Pop.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

Mmms.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

Yes. Spelled with three M's, these light, airy, poppable cheese crackers are loaded with real vegetables, so you get that quick crunch without compromising your energy. It's a mindful choice that feels good and tastes great. The bottom line? Habits don't happen in isolation. They're supported by the environment you create and the choices you make along the way. When you pick snacks that help you feel good physically and mentally, you're setting yourself up for success. And success should taste good. Find simple mills at your local grocery store.

[Kate Flanders]

In some ways, I'm like, who was she? Who was old school Kate? I would say that I was someone who basically spent every penny that I earned.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

I caught up with author and blogger Kate Flanders via Zoom. If her bedroom sounds a little echoey, it's because there's virtually nothing in it. But it wasn't always like that.

[Kate Flanders]

I definitely bought things whenever I wasn't feeling great. But then when you fill your home with stuff that you don't even use, it actually also feels worse. I would always text my best friend Emma and tell her whatever silly thing I was thinking of buying. They're like, emma, I think I need all new bedding. And she's like, but do you? Do you need new bedding? And I would just have this idea in my head that somehow that was the thing that was going to fix me that day. Like if I somehow made my bedroom look different or whatever, that that was somehow going to fix whatever was going on.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

Kate's material purchases followed a pattern that's familiar to many of us. She bought things in the hope that they would make her a better, more interesting person. She filled her small apartment with unread books and clothes and then added cameras, paints, brushes, and other art supplies.

[Kate Flanders]

I had purchased things thinking I would like to be the kind of person who does X, Y, or Z, but I never ended up doing any of it.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

At the time, Kay wasn't all that bothered by her shopping habits, but she did want to fix her financial situation by spending way more than she earned, she'd run up over $30,000 in debt.

[Kate Flanders]

I decided that for a year I just wouldn't buy anything unless it was absolutely essential. The things I could buy were groceries or put gas in my car if I needed. Had to be essential. Otherwise it just was off the list.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

Kate's shopping ban was just supposed to reduce her debt, but it ended up teaching her a lot more about happiness than she expected. As the flow of books and clothes and a gazillion other material purchases was cut off, Kate started to realize just how cluttered her life had been.

[Kate Flanders]

I was kind of sick of my drawers always being full or my closet being full. Like I've always been someone who only wears the same two or three outfits. So why did I have a closet full of clothes or a dresser full of clothes? It just didn't really make sense. And so I think as I started decluttering, especially because I was really aggressive in the beginning, I got rid of something like 50% of my stuff in the first six months. And I do remember after that just noticing, like when I walked into a room, not only did it feel like lighter is a good word for it, but, but it also actually just felt more inviting.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

Kate's year long shopping ban and radical decluttering made her realize that she didn't need as many material things as she thought. Her project also led to a new book, the Year of How I Stopped Shopping, Gave away My belongings and discovered life is worth more than anything you can buy in a store. Kate had always wanted to become a professional writer, but her financial situation made that impossible. Having learned to live with less stuff, she finally got the freedom she needed to dive into her dream career. Her newfound savings also gave her the funds she needed for something. The opportunity to experience the wider world.

[Kate Flanders]

I didn't travel as a kid. We didn't do that. But I always wanted to. Like, I knew by the time I was a teenager that that was something I was interested in. I felt like I sort of started slow. You know, I would book three nights away with a friend somewhere, went away to a wedding to a friend that like, I never would have been able to afford to go to her wedding.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

Since Kate can write from anywhere in the world, she decided to continue traveling. She gave up her apartment and now spends her time visiting friends and experiencing new countries and cultures.

[Kate Flanders]

Traveling made sense to me, like, made me feel more like myself than anything else.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

And just as Ahmet's work would suggest, these new experiential purchases have given Kate far more joyful memories than any of her old material things.

[Kate Flanders]

I don't remember the majority of what I decluttered and got rid of, and even just being able to recall things like the hotel that I stayed at for my friend's wedding or the house party that I went to with her and her friends, like the people I met and the conversations that we had. And I think I had never really stopped to savor moments like that before. Like, really, I can remember the experiences because of how I felt or how, like, the air smelt in certain cities. And, I mean, I don't remember anything like that of what I decluttered or even what I've purchased in the past.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

When she's not traveling, Kate uses a single room at her dad's house as her base camp. That was where she met me over zoom. It was pretty Spartan. One of the things that's cool about doing this interview is I'm able on zoom to look into your room, and I see a, like, coat rack with a hat and a coat, but maybe a chair, but, like, that's it.

[Kate Flanders]

Yes, I have a painting.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

Yes, I see the painting. It's a lovely painting.

[Kate Flanders]

Actually, it's done by a friend of mine, so, yeah, it was nice to hang that up.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

Recently, Kate has around 40 items of

[Kate Flanders]

clothing, like, not including socks and underwear

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

and a few pairs of shoes, hiking

[Kate Flanders]

boots, kind of regular boots, running shoes, and sandals. And that's it.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

Having once been possessed by her material purchases, Kate has now broken free. Now, the few things Kate does have all serve a purpose or have an important meaning.

[Kate Flanders]

One of the things that I kept was my desk, and that's because I built it with my dad. You just have more appreciation in general for the things I think that you understand where they came from.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

It also seems like you're keeping material objects that also have this feature of they were experiences for you. They were memories for you too. Right. Like, the desk is a memory that you have with your dad. And so it winds up being special in that sense.

[Kate Flanders]

That is something I can't really imagine I would ever get rid of.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

Kate's onto something really important here. The material possessions we do love are usually imbued with a certain experiential joy. It got me thinking back to what Amit Kumar had explained when we chatted before.

[Amit Kumar]

There's this sort of fuzzy boundary between what's an experience and what's a possession. Take a bicycle, for example. That's something that you keep in your possession, but it's literally a vehicle for experiences. If you think about it in terms of its features, its sort of specifications, it's going to feel a little more possessiony and it can lead to some of these problems with comparison, for instance, that we've talked. But if you think about going out on the trails, then all of a sudden that particular purchase might be something that inspires more happiness within you as a result of construing it in terms of its experiential nature.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

After talking with Kate and Amit, I'm more convinced than ever that I don't need a new car. I also realize that I can think of my beat up Nissan in a different light. I can construe it as a giver of new experiences, one that can connect me socially with the people I really care about. And so, dear podcast listener, welcome inside my beat up Nissan, which has recently become less beat up than it used to be since I did in fact take Ryan's sage advice and made some strategic auto body repairs. Thanks Ryan. Making this episode has given me some real gratitude for these old wheels and it's helped me reframe how I think about my car. Generally, this Nissan is going to be my doorway to new experiences. It's going to be the car that takes me for nice meals with my husband or on trips to see my old friends. And with all that money I'll save from not buying a Mustang, I'm hopeful I can invest in even more fun experiential purchases in the future. I can pay for a cool new yoga class online and enjoy the anticipation of a fantastic future vacation. Hopefully one that will involve traveling somewhere warm and sunny and maybe, just maybe, a small rental car. Splurge too, because I might enjoy just a little more muscle car fun sometime soon.

[Dr. Laurie Santos]

Seeking more brightness these days, research shows that simply gazing at bodies of water like the Pacific Ocean can help lower your heart rate and increase feelings of relaxation. Consider a trip to sunny San Diego. Put your toes in the sand, smell and feel the ocean breeze. Spending time in nature can be great for your mental health and as you soak up the bright side, feel your taste buds, your health and your wellness with a local cuisine fueled by San Diego's year round farm fresh produce. San Diego isn't just a destination, it's a disposition. Come to the bright side. Plan your trip to San Diego by going to sandiego.org funded in part with City of San Diego Tourism Marketing District assessment funds. It's Dr. Laurie Santos. You've probably heard me talk about how our brains benefit from even small changes in environment. There's strong research showing that time in nature, even brief time, can lower stress and improve mood. The challenge is that most of us don't have the time or energy to plan an entire outdoor trip from scratch. That's why I love what Auto Camp is doing. They combine the restorative benefits of being outdoors with the comforts of a boutique hotel. You can stay in a beautifully designed Airstream or cabin surrounded by trees and open sky, sleep in a genuinely comfortable bed, and enjoy spa inspired bathrooms that make it easy to fully unwind. Each location also features a beautiful clubhouse with activities, food and beverage options, and inviting lounge spaces designed for gathering and connecting so you get fresh air and stargazing without giving up the ease that helps your nervous system truly settle. If you've been craving a simple reset or a meaningful way to reconnect, connect with people you care about. Check out Otto Camp. It's a thoughtful way to get the well being boost nature gives us with locations from Yosemite to the Catskills. Find your Perfect [e-mail] Behavioral science consistently shows that people are more likely to adopt habits that feel simple, clear and achievable. Sunday is a yard care company designed with that insight in mind. They analyze your soil and local climate to build a customized yard plan, removing guesswork and reducing the friction that often prevents homeowners from taking action. Instead of harsh chemicals, Sundae uses nutrient dense ingredients like seaweed, molasses and iron. Go to getsunday.com to get your free custom yard analysis.

[BetterHelp Representative]

That's getsunday.com A BetterHelp ad May is Mental health Awareness Month, a reminder that whatever you're going through, you don't have to do it alone. Right now, most Americans are struggling. Nearly two thirds report feeling anxious. More than half say financial stress is a major source. And even though 85% of people believe seeking support is important, many still don't take that step. That's where BetterHelp comes in. With BetterHelp, you can connect with a licensed therapist who's there with you to listen, understand and support you on your terms. Schedule sessions conveniently via the app and talk to your therapist by video phone or live chat. BetterHelp matches you with a therapist who's with you through life's ups and downs. Because no journey should be alone, sign up now and get 10% [e-mail] that's betterhelp.com this is an iHeart podcast.

[Narrator/Interviewer (likely Dr. Laurie Santos)]

Guaranteed Human.