Why You're Still Using Social Media (Even If You Want to Stop) with Dr. Cass Sunstein

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Happiness Lab with Dr. Laurie Santos

Episode: Why You're Still Using Social Media (Even If You Want to Stop)
Guest: Dr. Cass Sunstein
Date: March 23, 2026
Published by: Pushkin Industries

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Episode Overview

This episode features Dr. Laurie Santos in conversation with Dr. Cass Sunstein, a renowned Harvard professor, behavioral scientist, and co-author of "Nudge." Together, they explore why so many people remain glued to social media platforms—even when these platforms undermine their happiness and well-being. Drawing upon Cass Sunstein's new chapter in the 2026 World Happiness Report, the episode introduces and unpacks the concept of "product traps," focusing on how collective behaviors, social pressures, and irrational decision-making keep us stuck online.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Ecological Change of Technology

• [00:06] Laurie Santos opens with Neil Postman's insight:

  “Technological change is not additive, it is ecological. A new technology does not merely add something, it changes everything.”

• The idea sets the stage for examining how social media fundamentally reshapes individual and collective well-being.

2. Introducing Dr. Cass Sunstein & "Product Trap"

• [00:48] Cass introduces his expertise in behavioral science and his focus on the divergence between what people choose and what actually makes their lives better.
• Cass’s latest contribution to the World Happiness Report: how technology, specifically social media, interacts with happiness.

3. What is a Product Trap?

• [07:06]

  “A product trap is something where people buy it because there's some negative thing that happens if they're not the one who's buying it. So people sometimes buy goods whose existence they deplore.” — Cass Sunstein ([07:06])

• Unlike typical goods (like a blender), product traps derive their value—or obligation to use—from collective adoption.

• Examples:

  • Social media platforms (Facebook, Instagram, TikTok)
  • Filters on social media photos
  • Peer pressures around Botox, supplements, or even holiday traditions (e.g., Elf on the Shelf)

• Relatable student perspective:

  “I am so happy that there is a word for this thing that I have been into for a long time, because I think that so many of the goods that they're supposed to get in life wind up being product traps or just the things that they use all the time.” — Laurie ([08:51])

4. Negative Non-User Externality and FOMO

• [11:09] Term: “Negative non-user externality”

  • Opting out comes with social costs, leading to feelings of exclusion or being left out (FOMO).
  • Sunstein brings up classic scenarios: parties, peer activities, even academia’s use of AI “cheat bots.”

• On loss aversion:

  “People dislike losses... If you think that I'm going to miss out, let's say on Instagram something or on a TikTok something, that's a loss. And loss makes people feel very nervous.” — Cass Sunstein ([12:10])

5. The Business Perspective: Why Traps Persist

• [15:08]

  “…in business schools, this relatively new stuff should be taught as a technique for attracting customers... If you're visibly not someone who's using, let's say, a social media platform that everyone in your, your group is using, that triggers something in the human brain.” — Cass Sunstein ([15:08])

• Companies intentionally design products to increase visibility and social signaling (e.g., sharing game stats online), further deepening the trap.

6. The Willingness to Pay Paradox

• [21:38] Cass describes his research:

  • When people are asked how much they’d pay to use social media, the answer is “very little” to “nothing.”
  • But to give up social media for a month, people demand a much higher sum ($50–$100).
  • Contradicts economic theory (Nobel prize-winning theorem) that willingness to buy and sell should match.

• [23:02] Laurie notes the strange contrast with how much time people spend on social media:

  “Our young people today, my Yale college students, are on average... using these platforms for like four hours a day, up to eight hours a day. But you ask them how much is it worth to you... and people are like, nothing. I would never pay to go on this stuff.” — Laurie Santos ([23:02])

• Cass speculates:

  • Anchoring to current (free) price.
  • Admitting it’s a “wasting time good” (people know it’s not in their best interest).

7. Experimental Evidence & Product Trap Diagnosis

• [24:44] Studies show paying people to leave Facebook makes them happier, but even after a positive experience, people still demand compensation to stay off.

• [26:35] Cass’s experiment:

  • Participants are only willing to forgo social media for free if all their peers also quit.
  • Key insight: “If everyone in the community is off, then I will pay you. You don't have to pay me a nickel.” — Cass Sunstein ([26:35])

• [28:33] Laurie highlights the unique collective utility problem:

  “...the collective utility is itself making us choose things that are bad for us, right?” ([28:33])

8. Can We Escape Product Traps?

• [32:53] Cass outlines three approaches:
  • Community action: Collective agreements not to use certain products (e.g., family decisions for no adult Christmas gifts, parents jointly delaying kids’ phones).
  • Corporate responsibility: Companies tweaking product features (e.g., Instagram nudging users to take breaks or sleep).
  • Regulation/governmental guidance: Disclosure requirements, best-practice guidelines—careful not to infringe on free speech.

9. Libertarian Paternalism & Nudges

• [38:01] Cass explains:

  “Libertarian paternalism...are ways of intervening that completely respect people's freedom...but that also steer people in a direction that...makes their lives go better.” ([38:01])

  • Examples: Nutrition facts, GPS advice, sleep reminders.
  • In social media: nudges to log off, time limit reminders, transparency about usage.

10. Hope for Change

• [40:19] Laurie and Cass point out historic precedents:
  • Society reduced smoking through taxes, social norms, and regulations.
  • Steps to escape traps:
    1. Name the problem (“product trap”)
    2. Take action—collectively or via advocacy

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “A product trap is something where people buy it because there's some negative thing that happens if they're not the one who's buying it... Goods that people consume, but they wish they weren't around. And social media has that form.” — Cass Sunstein ([07:06])
• “If you ask me would I want to live in a world that didn't have TikTok or Instagram, large numbers of people say, absolutely, I'll pay you real money to produce it.” — Cass Sunstein ([26:35])
• “Libertarian paternalism...completely respect people's freedom...but also steer people in a direction that makes their lives go better.” — Cass Sunstein ([38:01])
• “People know that they're trapped. With respect to social media platforms, there are other domains where people are trapped and they don't know.” — Cass Sunstein ([36:05])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:06 — Introduction/theme setting (Neil Postman quote)
• 07:06 — Cass defines “product trap” & relevant examples
• 11:09 — Non-user externality/FOMO explanation
• 15:08 — How companies exploit product traps
• 21:38 — Willingness to pay experiment and paradox
• 24:44 — Alcott et al. study: paying people to leave Facebook & well-being effects
• 26:35 — The collective action question (“everyone leaves” scenario)
• 32:53 — Cass outlines three solutions: community, company, regulation
• 38:01 — Libertarian paternalism explained and applied to social media
• 40:41 — How to take action: name the problem, band together, change norms

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Conclusion & Practical Takeaways

The episode offers a powerful framework for understanding why we persist in using social media even when it feels bad: it's a collective action problem rooted in product traps and negative social externalities. Identifying and naming this dynamic is the first step towards liberation, whether through communal agreements, responsible company nudges, or light-touch regulation. Even seemingly small acts—like honestly naming what's happening—can pave the way for healthier habits and policies.

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Recommended action:

• Notice when you're in a product trap.
• Discuss alternatives or collective agreements with your community.
• Advocate for more transparent, user-friendly tech design.
• Explore the 2026 World Happiness Report for more research and insights on technology, product traps, and happiness.

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For feedback or more information:

• Email: HappinessLabushkin FM
• Newsletter: drlauriesantos.com
• World Happiness Report: worldhappiness.report

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Transcript

[A]

Pushkin. The late American author and media critic Neil Postman once famously wrote, technological change is not additive, it is ecological. A new technology does not merely add something, it changes everything. Postman made this observation all the way back in 1992, over a decade before smartphones and over a decade before the launch of social media platforms like Facebook, Instagram and TikTok. Postman's quote feels particularly relevant today, especially given what researchers around the world are learning about the negative effects of these technologies. Researchers like today's guest I'm Cass Sunstein.

[B]

I teach at Harvard. I work on law and behavioral science. I've been working for about seven years on social media and happiness and the divergence between what people choose and what actually makes their lives better.

[A]

You might know Cass from his influential book Nudge, which he co authored with the Nobel Prize winning economist Richard Thaler. Nudge explores how small changes in our environments can influence the choices we make. Or you may know Cass from his work in the Obama administration where he helped bring behavioral science into public policy.

[B]

I headed the Office of Information and Regulatory affairs, analyzing the effects of regulations to make sure that the benefits are higher than the costs.

[A]

Cass is one of the scholars in behavioral science that I really look up to. He's also one of the most prolific academics I've ever met. I've lost count of the number of books he's written. I think it's well over 50 at this point. And that doesn't even include the hundreds of academic articles he's authored, most of which are about some strange or unexpected

[C]

aspect of human behavior.

[A]

And this year, Cass adds to that long list as one of the authors of the World Happiness Report, an annual academic publication about the state of global well being. Each year, the World Happiness Report centers on a different theme. The 2026 report is all about how technology affects human happiness. And in true Cass Sunstein fashion, his chapter in this year's report introduces an important new concept, one that I find super helpful for making sense of all the irrational ways we get stuck online and behaviors that tend to decrease our health and our happiness.

[B]

People are thinking, given the fact that there is this platform and my people are on it, I'm going to stay on and I'm going to get off it kicking and screaming. But do I like this status quo? I do not like the status quo at all.

[A]

So if you're feeling trapped by your relationship with technology and social media, stay tuned because Cas will share this exciting new concept from his chapter why this New Concept is so Important and what understanding it means for escaping the trap of social media platforms. All that when the Happiness Lab returns right after some quick ads from our sponsors. This is an iHeart podcast.

[C]

Guaranteed Human.

[A]

This episode is brought to you by Choiceology, an original podcast from Charles Schwab hosted by the amazing Katie Milkman, behavioral scientist and author of the best selling book how to Change. Choiceology is a show about the psychology and economics behind our decisions. You can hear true stories from Nobel laureates, authors, historians, athletes and more about why we do the things we do. Listen to [e-mail] podcast or wherever you listen to your shows. Research shows how often our intuitions lead us astray. That's why I value tools that help me think more clearly, not just faster. Claude, the AI from Anthropic doesn't just hand you quick answers, it thinks things through with you and helps you work through complexity instead of skipping past it. It's the kind of thinking partner I trust. Try Claude for free at Claude AI Happiness what better way to kick off the new year than with fresh insights into your health? QuestHealth.com makes it easy to buy your own lab tests online. No doctor visit required for purchase. With over 150 tests to choose from, including the Elite Health Profile, a panel that measures 85 plus health markers across key areas in your body, you can get more clarity into your well being. It's a simple first step towards a happier, healthier year ahead. And for a limited time, you can save on select [e-mail] with code Happiness 10 terms apply. Sonesta Travel Pass is the most rewarding way to travel. Sign [e-mail] for instant savings, bonus points and perks like early check in, late checkout, room upgrades, and free stays. Choose from 1100 hotels across 13 brands and unlock their best rates when you book with Sonesta Travel Pass here today, Rome tomorrow. Join [e-mail] terms and conditions apply if your finance team spends more time finding data than using it. If there's one entity here and one here and one here and one here. If scaling your business feels like starting over, you need the Intuit erp. Intuit Enterprise Suite is the AI native ERP solution that's powerful, painless and proven. Learn [e-mail] ERP. Behavioral scientist and legal scholar Cass Sunstein spends a lot of time thinking about ways that we can shape our behavior to feel happier and healthier, and he's particularly interested in cases in which people behave in ways that decrease what economists call their utility. Since I'm guessing that many of my listeners aren't trained economists, I asked Cass for a quick definition of utility.

[B]

Well, it basically means well being. So if you have a day where you're really enjoying it and maybe life is very meaningful and you think at the end that was such a great day that had a lot of utility, if you had a day where you were in pain or struggling or sad or scared or worried or depressed, that would be a low utility day. So to think of utility as pretty close to synonymous with well being is fundamentally right.

[A]

Economists tend to assume that people are rational, I.e. they should consistently behave in ways that maximize their utility. But of course, we do irrational stuff all the time. Like for example, spending hour after hour scrolling on Instagram or TikTok when that behavior makes us feel unproductive and pretty gross. So why on earth do so called rational creatures like us waste so much time on platforms that don't even feel good? That was what Cass set out to explain in his chapter in this year's World Happiness Report, and his explanation involves recognizing something new that social media isn't just a typical kind of product. Instead, it falls into the category of what Cass calls a product trap.

[B]

A product trap is something where people buy it because there's some negative thing that happens if they're not the one who's buying it. So people sometimes buy goods whose existence they deplore. That phenomenon is, I think, keenly interesting and pervasive. Goods that people consume, but they wish they weren't around. And social media has that form. So people are trapped. They are kind of forced, so to speak, into a situation where they're on social media, even though they would be happier if social media didn't exist.

[A]

To better understand this idea of a product trap, let's turn to the way that the usual sorts of products, the non trappy kind, tend to affect utility. Let's say I decide to buy a new blender. There are lots of things about my new blender that might affect how much I like it. Things like how well it blends through big chunks of ice, or how easy it is to clean. All stuff related to how well that blender works in my own kitchen. But one thing that won't affect my utility is whether or not lots of other people have bought the same blender. But for a small subset of products. It matters whether other people buy the same thing either, because keeping up with the Joneses is the main point of buying that product in the first place. Think luxury watches or designer handbags or because the products themselves get better simply

[C]

because more people are using them.

[A]

Think social media platforms like Facebook or Instagram. Products like these are what Cass calls product traps.

[B]

And the trap is that the company is able to maneuver you into a situation in which you get the thing because you would incur some sort of social cost if you weren't engaged.

[A]

So that's a product trap. And now that you have a word for this concept, I bet you're going

[C]

to start noticing product traps everywhere. This is a vocabulary term that I introduce in my Yale Happiness class, and it is the one that the Yale students resonate with the most. They are just like, I am so happy that there is a word for this thing that I have been into for a long time, because I think that so many of the goods that they're supposed to get in life wind up being product traps or just the things that they use all the time. Students brought up filters on the photos that they use. They know it makes them look kind of weird and that it's not great for our body image that we're all using them, but they don't want to be the one person who's not filtering their photos. People in middle age like me would be things like Botox or, you know, supplements or these things where it's like, I just wish the world didn't have these things. But in fact, given that the world does have them, I feel like I have to use them, too. And when I was talking with my production team, they brought up Elf on a Shelf, which is a holiday example of this, where it's like, if the kid down the hall is. Their parents are doing Elf on the Shelf, you feel like you have to do it, too, but it just kind of makes you miserable.

[B]

I'll give you two examples, if I may. My sister decided one Christmas that the adults would not give each other presents anymore. The presents would only go to children. And everyone thought that was an extremely great thing, because for years we'd been giving each other presents where there was no benefit, mostly because people would struggle to find something people would like, and people didn't really need another tie or whatever. Another example is, you know, I go to Ireland because my wife is Irish, and I drink a little bit of alcohol, even though I don't drink alcohol anywhere but Ireland. And the reason is, among my beloved Irish relatives, I say, sorry, I'm not drinking. The reaction is, maybe he's an alcoholic, or maybe he's very negative about drinkers. And I'm not an alcoholic. I'M not negative about drinkers, but I give that kind of signal to some Irish relatives. And the idea is that this is a pervasive thing, right?

[A]

It's not just about the other people using these products.

[C]

It's about what happens to you if you're the one person who chooses not to use this product.

[A]

And this is what you've called a consumption spillover or a negative non user externality. Walk me through how that works.

[B]

The non user externality, that's a little fussier term that we're using where if you're not using the thing, you suffer. So let's suppose there's a party on a Monday night. Everyone's going. And people might think, I'm certainly going to go to the party because if I don't go, I'll be giving a signal to people that I don't like parties, that I don't like the hosts, that I'm an antisocial person, that I'm a workaholic, or that I really like the show on Netflix. So not going imposes a cost on you. And the cost might be, you know, self perception or you might think that the other people are going to say, what's wrong with that guy? But it might be there are some social events that you go to because you kind of have to, but if they were canceled, you'd think life is a little bit better.

[A]

And a lot of these product traps

[C]

where the consumption spillover occurs is because of a specific emotion, which is this emotion of fomo, right? This is what my Yale students talk about. And why I think these product traps are so powerful in college students is like it's literally affecting your sense of belonging.

[B]

So there's a connection between the product trap phenomenon, the behavioral phenomenon of loss aversion. People dislike losses. They tend to anticipate at least disliking losses about twice as much as they like equivalent gains. If you think that I'm going to miss out, let's say on Instagram something or on a TikTok something that's a loss. And loss makes people feel very nervous. It's a distinctive kind of fear of missing out, which is accompanied by a thought that the thing that you're missing out from you wish weren't occurring. And the fact that people get trapped in this because of social dorms or because of agile, let's say company behavior, that's really concerning it might be that anyone can entrap almost anyone by triggering fear of missing out.

[C]

One of the domains where my students instantly saw that they're dealing with a product trap, interestingly, was with AI and specifically the use of AI to do their schoolwork. The cheap bot use of AI, as they call it. Because I think all of them want to learn the material and do the essay on their own and get the sense of purpose that comes from that. But if they know that everyone in the class is using LLM, they feel like, well, I'm a chump. If I'm putting my time into this, I should just use these same cheap bot tools that everyone else is. It seems like many of them aren't using it because of their own individual benefit of cheating. Many of them just kind of hated the idea that everybody else is using it, but they feel like, well, now I gotta use it too.

[B]

That's a great example. So AI for many students is a product trap where you wish it didn't exist, but contingent on its existence, you have to use it. That's a different mechanism. Kind of from fear of missing out. It's that you would be performing less well.

[C]

So product traps are bad for the people who get trapped using these products.

[A]

But what about for the companies that make these products?

[C]

It kind of seems like a good deal for them.

[B]

Oh yeah, it's fantastic. So in business schools, this relatively new stuff should be taught as a technique for attracting customers. So if you're trying to sell a product to say that you don't want to be one of the few who doesn't have it, that can be very effective, especially if it is visible. So if you're visibly not someone who's using, let's say, a social media platform that everyone in your, your group is using, that triggers something in the human brain. And if there's some product that's visible, it might be that the exclusion and the cost that is imposed by people who aren't included is the principal determinant of consumption behavior. So we know that a company would do very well, in a very cheerful way to emphasize the wonderfulness of being part of a large community of people who are increasingly visibly buying or engaged in this.

[C]

It also seems like companies are doing everything in their power to do this more and more. You can't just have a, like, Internet game.

[A]

It has to be an Internet game

[C]

where you share your stats with other people. You're always constantly showing off whether or not you're using the product, which of course contributes to the product trappiness of some of these goods.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And if you don't post your number, you are giving a signal of some maybe embarrassing sort that you're not participating, that you're not good at the thing, that you're not playful. And all of these things can be profoundly motivating and they can be exploited in a way that makes people worse off.

[A]

So now you know what a product trap is. And I gotta admit, it kinda looks like social media platforms qualify. But not so fast because Cass and other behavioral scientists have a strict empirical test for determining whether a product truly counts as a product trap, one that involves a curiously irrational thing that we tend to do with our money. We'll hear all about that curious monetary behavior right after this quick break. Sonesta Travel Pass is the most rewarding way to travel. Sign [e-mail] for instant savings, bonus points and perks like early check in, late checkout, room upgrades and free stays. Choose from 1100 hotels across 13 brands and unlock their best rates when you book with Sonesta Travel Pass here today, Rome tomorrow. Join [e-mail] terms and conditions apply. One of the things I keep coming back to in my research is how often our intuitions lead us astray. We think we know what will make us happy and sometimes we're wrong. That's why I value tools that help me think more clearly, not just faster. I've been using Claude the AI from Anthropic to brainstorm new ideas for the show. What I appreciate is that Claude doesn't just give me a quick answer and move on. It's helped me think through the sorts of real world situations that people tend to get wrong. When it comes to happiness. Working with Claude feels like thinking alongside a well read research assistant. That's the kind of tool I trust. Try Claude for free at Claude AI Happiness and see why problem solvers choose Claude as their thinking partner. The Happiness Lab is proudly sponsored by Amica Insurance. It feels good to be understood. Amica goes above and beyond to customize the right coverage for you by taking the time to really understand your needs. Because creating peace of mind is at the heart of Amica's mission. Whether you're at home or on the road, Amica knows it's not just about where you're going, but who you go with. Go with the insurer that truly understands you as a mutual company, Amica puts its customers needs first. Visit amica.com and get a quote today. It's time to take care of you and who better to help you do that than the top voices in well being? On Audible, you can level up your parenting, career, finances, sleep, relationships or mindset The Audible well Being Collection has everything to inspire and support you every step of the way. Hear the latest from best selling authors Brene Brown and Jay Shetty, Master Nutrition with Chef Jamie Oliver, hear Nature Sleep sounds from the Sleeping World or get on top of your finances with Rachel Rogers. Plus, you'll find all the best parenting guides like Raising Good Humans. With this at your fingertips, you can imagine more for yourself and your family. Kickstart your well being journey with your first audiobook. Free when you sign up for a 30 day trial at audible.com HappinessLab membership is $14.95 a month. After 30 days, cancel anytime. Listening to the top voices in Wellbeing sounds like self care to us. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen this podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. Every March we celebrate International Women's Day, a day that's all about celebrating women's strength and progress while also recognizing how much women have to carry every day. So I want to take a moment to remind all women how much they matter. And therapy is just one way to make sure that women are taking care of themselves and taking up the space they deserve. If you're thinking about therapy, give BetterHelp a try. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform and BetterHelp therapists are fully licensed in the United States. Plus, BetterHelp has a therapist match commitment. BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps you identify your needs and preferences so that you can get the right therapist the first time. And if you aren't happy with your match, you can switch to a different therapist at any time. From their tailored recommendations, your emotional well being matters. Find support and feel lighter and therapy. Sign up and get 10% [e-mail] Laurie that's betterhelp.com Laurie. Like many behavioral economists, Harvard legal scholar Cass Sunstein spends a lot of time thinking about how people spend their money and more specifically, how much people are willing to pay for different products.

[B]

Suppose the question is, would you benefit from having a book or a dinner? How do we know? Well, we can ask how much you're willing to pay for it. It's kind of the best measure we have. So if people are willing to Pay, let's say $15 for a book and not 50, then we have some clue of what the book is worth to them in terms of well being. So willingness to pay is the best real world measure we have. Offhand of what makes people better off.

[A]

Economists also have lots of theories about how a rational actor's willingness to pay should work. For example, the idea that people will have some dollar amount in their heads that represents a product's utility, how much it's worth to you. So if someone is willing to pay 50 bucks for, say, a blender, that dollar amount should be about the same if you're thinking about buying the product or selling it. But blenders and books are regular, non trappy kinds of products, Ones that aren't affected all that much by whether other

[C]

people are buying the same product.

[A]

Cass was interested in whether social media platforms worked differently than books and blenders and whether they qualified as product traps.

[B]

So I asked people how much you're willing to pay for a month of social media platforms. And then I asked a different population, how much money would you demand to be off a platform for a month? So the setup is people are asked, how much would you pay to use YouTube or pay to use Facebook or pay to use Twitter, or how much would you demand to be off? And there's a Nobel prize winning theorem that says the number has to be the same, that if people are willing to Pay, let's say, $6 for movie ticket, they would demand $6 to give up the movie ticket. Value is value. And I was testing whether this idea would be reflected in people's valuation of social media platforms, But I got a staggering result. A substantial number of people said, I'll pay nothing to social media platforms. And the average answer was pretty low, like 5 or $10. So people are saying nothing, or they're saying kind of a pittance to use social media platforms and then to give up use, they got a really big number. Like people wanted like $100 on average. So the disparity between how much people would demand to give up use and how much people are willing to pay to use Facebook is 20 to 1. There's a Nobel prize winning theorem that says it has to be one to one.

[C]

It was really surprising to me when you showed that people are just not willing to pay anything to be on social media. Because if you look at just time use, you might have predicted something very different. Right? Our young people today, my Yale college students are on average in stem studies using these platforms for like four hours a day, up to eight hours a day. But you ask them, how much is it worth to you if you have to pay money for it? And people are like, nothing. I would never pay to go on this stuff. What does that tell you?

[B]

So there are a couple different possibilities. One is people are anchoring on the current price, which is zero. So if the current price is zero, and they're asked, how much will you pay? They'll say zero. Or they'll maybe adjust a little bit, up from zero to five or 10. Another explanation is that people think that they're wasting their time. So I bet for a certain percentage of my population, people thought, yeah, I spent a lot of time on it, but it's dumb, and I'm not going to buy that terrible waste of time. I'll pay you nothing. And then there's a third explanation, which is a number of people might have just been mad. So having enjoyed, so to speak, a good for free, then they're asked, how much would you pay for it? They say, what are you talking about? This is free. Like if people are asked, how much would you pay for clean air or the opportunity to breathe oxygen, they might say zero in a survey because they're rebelling against the very idea that they'd have to pay. So those are 3 explanat. I think the most fun explanation is that people think they're wasting time. So we need a category, let's call them wasting time goods, where people devote a lot of minutes and maybe even hours to a thing, but they know on reflection that it's not doing them any good, so they're not going to pay for them.

[C]

And so researchers did a study which actually paid people to get off Facebook for a month. Tell me about that study.

[B]

So there's this study by Alcott and others has one thing very much in common with mine. What was elic? It was, how much would you demand to be off? The difference is people were actually paid to be off. And then it turns out they have a good month, so they're more satisfied with their life, they're less depressed, they're less anxious, and every measure that's thrown at them, it's a good month. And then they're asked after that good month, how much would you, the relevant person who had a good month, demand to be off Facebook? And on average, people give approximately the same number they gave before they experienced the good month. Having said $100, the first round, the average answer the second round is $86. Now, the part that's kind of intuitive about that is 86 is lower than 100. So people learn that it's kind of good to be off. They don't demand as much. But the wild part is that having had a good month, they should say, you don't have to pay me anything. I'm getting off. This is not a good thing for me. I just learned I had a great month and we found none of that. They asked for 86. That's we, the authors of the study don't know how to explain it.

[A]

But Cass did have an explanation. Cass reasoned that the participants may totally recognize that they don't enjoy being on TikTok or Instagram, but they feel like they have to be because everyone else is. They were suffering from that negative non user externality that Cass mentioned before the break. Their own utility was worse off because so many other people were using social media platforms. They were product trapped. But was CAS hypothesis right? Well, researchers recruited a new group of participants and asked them a different willingness

[B]

to pay question, how much would you demand to be off contingent on everyone in your community being off? That's the product trap question. And what they found was if you ask people how much would you demand to be off? You got the standard answers as in my study. So people say, I will require you to pay a lot to be off these platforms. In this case TikTok and Instagram, $50, $60, $70, $100. People are going to demand real money to be off. But then if people, and these are college students, are asked how much would you demand to be off contingent on everyone in your community being off? Then they say, if everyone in the community is off, then I will pay you. You don't have to pay me a nickel. That's the dominant sentiment. And the explanation there is a little more intuitive, I think, which is given the fact that there is this platform and my people are on it, I'm going to stay on and I'm going to get off it kicking and screaming. But do I like this status quo? I do not like the status quo at all. If you ask me would I want to live in a world that didn't have TikTok or Instagram, large numbers of people say, absolutely, I'll pay you real money to produce it. This is a very profound finding and we're now studying it in multiple domains with respect to Starbucks and iPhones and multiple products. But there's an assortment of goods which people enjoy in the sense that they devote time or money to them only because other people are enjoying them in that sense, but they're not really enjoying them at all.

[C]

I mean, this is pretty fascinating just as a happiness researcher in general, because I think we're so locked into people's individual utility, we tend not to think about collective utility. But I think this is a really special case of collective utility, where it's like the collective utility is itself making us choose things that are bad for us, right?

[B]

Completely. And it's a really tough collective action problem to get yourself out of a product trap.

[A]

It is a really tough collective action problem, but it's also not impossible. We'll explore what we can do to escape product traps when the Happiness Lab returns from the break. From coast to coast. Unlock adventure at Red Lion Hotels by Sinesta where restful sleep, friendly service and local knowledge await. Whether for business or pleasure, spend less and make more of every trip. When you sign up for Sinesta Travel Pass, you'll get our best rates instantly. Go to sinesta.com to book your stay and unlock our best rate with Sonesta TravelPass here today, Rome tomorrow. Join [e-mail] Terms and conditions apply. One of the things I keep coming back to in my research is how often our intuitions lead us astray. We think we know what will make us happy and sometimes we're wrong. That's why I value tools that help me think more clearly, not just faster. I've been using Claude the AI from Anthropic to brainstorm new ideas for the show. What I appreciate is that Claude doesn't just give me a quick answer and move on. It's helped me think through the sorts of real world situations that people tend to get wrong. When it comes to happiness. Working with Claude feels like thinking alongside a well read research assistant. That's the kind of tool I trust. Try Claude for free at Claude AI Happiness and see why problem solvers choose Claude as their thinking partner. The Happiness Lab is proudly sponsored by Amica Insurance. You know what they say, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. So go with Amica and get coverage from a mutual insurer that's built for their customers. One that looks after what's important to you together, auto, home life and more. Amica helps you protect what matters most. Visit amica.com and get a quote. Today it's time to take care of you and who better to help you do that than the top voices in well being? On Audible, you can level up your parenting, career, finances, sleep, relationships or mindset. The Audible well Being collection has everything to inspire and support you every step of the way. Here are the latest from best selling authors Brene Brown and Jay Shetty. Master Nutrition with Chef Jamie Oliver. Hear nature sleep sounds from the sleeping world or get on top of your Finances with Rachel Rogers. Plus, you'll find all the best parenting guides like Raising Good Humans. With this at your fingertips, you can imagine more for yourself and your family. Kickstart your well being journey with your first audiobook. Free when you sign up for a 30 day trial at audible.com HappinessLab membership is $14.95 a month. After 30 days, cancel anytime. Listening to the top voices in wellbeing sounds like self care to us. Audible there's more to imagine when you listen Behavioral science consistently shows that people are more likely to adopt habits that feel simple, clear and achievable. Sunday is a yard care company designed with that insight in mind. They analyze your soil and local climate to build a customized yard plan, removing guesswork and reducing the friction that often prevents homeowners from taking action. Instead of harsh chemicals, Sundae uses nutrient dense ingredients like seaweed, molasses and iron. Go to getsunday.com to get your free custom yard analysis. That's getsunday.com. I'm speaking with Harvard law professor and behavioral scientist Cass Sunstein about his chapter in this year's World Happiness Report. Support the research Cass has shared so far prints a pretty bleak conclusion. Even when people recognize that social media hurts their well being, many still feel compelled to keep using it so long as other people are using it too. Social media, in other words, is a classic product trap, which frankly, kinda sucks. So given that most people aren't leaving these platforms anytime soon, how do we break free? Cast says that behavioral science suggests suggests at least three different paths forward.

[B]

First, there are individuals, communities of individuals, there are companies and there are regulators. So first line of defense communities so people can band together like my sister and my family did to say adults aren't going to get Christmas presents. You can have a community of we're not going to give our kids cell phones until eighth grade. You're exiting from the product track gap by virtue of some kind of collective agreement. Now this is happening all over the country. Schools can help by saying no cell phones in schools and that can be supplemented by parental efforts. Or there can be agreements among people that just say we're going to limit our time on social media and this is just a self help remedy on the part of groups who are alert to the existence of the product, trapped who can publicize its existence and things better and better is good even if it doesn't lead to perfection. Then there are the companies and they're right now in a bind where it appears that some of their economic interests are competing with Their values and also their desire not to get a regulatory hammer. Instagram has done a bunch of things to try to discourage young people from being on their platform and for getting more slightly sleep. So there's a lot that the companies could do on the regulatory side. I'd be very cautious just because I'm that kind of guy and because we're talking about speech. But you could imagine disclosure requirements, for example, or when I was in the government we would sometimes do guidance documents. And if the government has a best practice for, let's say social media platforms with respect to product traps, that can do a lot of good. I mean, I'm excited that you're using the term product trap and that this has taken off among students because the term is actually quite new. It wasn't a thing. The very existence of a phrase can provide the ingredients for a solution. We're seeing this starting early days, but I'm hopeful that we're going to see a lot more in the next six months.

[C]

I love this idea of having the phrase that can be so, so helpful. One of the things I find most compelling about product traps was how my students reacted when I first presented this idea in the happiness class. These light bulbs went off where they just felt like so much of the stuff that they spend time on is one of these things. These things that they feel like has little value for themselves, maybe is time wasting, maybe is actively harmful, but they have to do it because everybody else is doing it. And I feel like with social media there was an interesting transition talking to

[A]

my students when it was just the

[C]

like Facebook days of social media, I think people didn't realize it was as much of a product trap as it was in part because it wasn't so negatively affecting students utility just kind of being on social media. But I think in the age of TikToks and reels, when students feel like they're really sucked in and they can kind of feel it in the moment of the product use, I think they all get this really, really clearly.

[B]

Yes. So people know that they're trapped. With respect to social media platforms, there are other domains where people are trapped and they don't know. And this is a little like clue about the non isolated nature of this problem.

[C]

So these product traps are everywhere. Are there past examples of people solving them?

[A]

Well, what has worked in the past to solve them?

[B]

I think liquor and cigarettes are two clear examples where young people would smoke and drink and some number of them wish people weren't doing that. And that's our three Strategies, which is individuals doing things to prevent the product trap from damaging them, or companies trying to do things. You know, might be a ban on smoking in public places or something which has an expressive effect and ripples over. Or it might be government doing something. I'll tell you a very provocative idea which my co authors and I are playing with, which is we're dealing with a non user externality here. And the way you handle externalities typically is impose a financial thing. So taxes as a response. And for cigarettes that's actually been done. There's stiff cigarette taxes, which have contributed to the extraordinary reduction in smoking rates of the United States. And for many young smokers, it took exactly the same form as what we're talking about for social media platforms where young people say, I'm going to smoke, sure, do I wish they were smoking? No. And if we'd run an experiment like the ones we've talked about, we would have found that people would demand a lot to give up smoking, but would probably pay for a world in which no one in their group was smoking.

[A]

And this gets to an idea for

[C]

which you are very well known, this idea that we can find freedom in what's known as libertarian paternalism. What is this idea?

[B]

The idea is there are ways of intervening that completely respect people's freedom. So they're libertarian, but that also steer people in a direction that they wouldn't otherwise go that makes their lives go better. So libertarian. Some people are paternalist, some people are. They typically don't agree with each other. But if you think of a GPS device or a warning, for example, that certain foods have allergens, both of those are liberty preserving. You can eat the food with the allergens. You can say, I see it has shrimp and peanuts and I'm allergic to neither of them them, and so I'm going to go for it. Or you can say, I see the GPS device says here's the way to go to New Haven, I have my own way, or I have a scenic way, and I'm going to use that. So it's liberty preserving, hence libertarian. But a GPS device is paternalistic. It tells you here's how you ought to go. So nudges are typically a form of libertarian paternalism, that is, they preserve your freedom. As when you see a nutrition facts panel at the grocery store, it kind of pushes you a little bit, but it doesn't take your freedom of choice away.

[C]

And so what would libertarian paternalism look like in the social media case?

[B]

I'd like to see a lot of libertarian paternalism in the social media case in the first instance from the companies. So if a company says you've been on for five hours, consider getting off. That's libertarian paternalism. A little like cars will say if you've been driving for a long time, you want to take a break. That's libertarian paternalism. The company could nudge people to take breaks, to be off their platform at certain hours to join the growing number of people, let's say, who aren't using social media late at night. There are any number of nudges that companies could use. We can also imagine the government requiring disclosure of the policies companies adopt to hook users. So sunlight, just as Brandeis said, is the best of disinfectants. We could have very light touch regulation and that would be designed to liberate people, maybe from product traps.

[C]

The good news is it's sounding like even though these things are traps, if we can team up with our communities, there's ways we can get out of this them, sure.

[B]

And if we look at the arc of human history, even in the last 20 years, there's been an implicit understanding that certain things are not good for us and people have found their way out again with massive success stories.

[A]

Social media may feel like something we're stuck with, but history shows that when we start to recognize patterns that make us worse off, we often find ways to Change them. Step 1 Step 1 is to name the problem the next time you're feeling stuck on social media or with some other product you're using just because everyone else is, name what's going on. You can even say to yourself, there's a reason I'm feeling this way, because I'm dealing with a product trap. Step number two Take action. Sometimes that means working with your community to set new norms. Sometimes it means advocating that the companies involved redesign their products. And sometimes it means government stepping in in with new rules.

[C]

Recognizing product traps for what they are

[A]

can help us reshape the environment around these technologies so that they serve our well being rather than quietly undermining it. That's all for today, but if you'd like to learn more about how social media functions as a product trap, check out this year's World Happiness Report, which you can download for free at WorldHappiness Report. And if you have thoughts about today's episode, we'd love to hear them. You can email us at HappinessLabushkin FM or leave us a review to tell us what resonated. You can also sign up to learn more about the science of happiness and join my free newsletter on my website drlauriesantos.com that's-r l a u R I E S A N T O S.com we'll be back in two weeks with a brand new season about how to spring clean your well being. And we'll be doing our own in house spring cleaning as we head back into the Happiness Lab archive to dig up some of our favorite tips. So be sure to come back soon for the next episode of the Happiness

[C]

lab with me, Dr. Lauri Santos.

[A]

What better way to kick off the new year than with fresh insights into your health? QuestHealth.com makes it easy to buy your own lab test tests online. No doctor visit required for purchase. With over 150 tests to choose from, including the Elite Health Profile, a panel that measures 85 plus health markers across key areas in your body, you can get more clarity into your well being. It's a simple first step towards a happier, healthier year ahead. And for a limited time you can save on select [e-mail] with code happinesstest. Terms apply from coast to coast. Unlock adventure at Red Lion Hotels by Sonesta, where restful sleep, friendly service and local knowledge await. Whether for business or pleasure, spend less and make more of every trip. When you sign up for Sinesta Travel Pass, you'll get our best rates instantly. Go to sonesta.com to book your stay and unlock our best rates with Sinesta TravelPass here today roam tomorrow. Join [e-mail] terms and conditions apply. If your finance team spends more time finding data than using it. If there's one entity here and one here and one here and one here. If scaling your business feels like starting over, you need the Intuit erp. Intuit Enterprise Suite is the AI native ERP solution that's powerful, painless and proven. Learn [e-mail] ERP research shows how often our intuitions lead us astray. That's why I value tools that help me think more clearly, not just faster. Claude, the AI from Anthropic doesn't just hand you quick answers. It thinks things through with you and helps you work through complexity instead of skipping past it. It's the kind of thinking partner I trust. Try Claude for free at Claude AI Happiness. As a happiness expert, I know that mindfulness isn't just about meditation. It's also being present in our choices. And that's why I choose Dietz and Watson. They're family owned and operated and they never cut corners, ever they're totally transparent about what goes into their food and what doesn't, and that's why their meats and cheeses taste so great. I use their chicken sausage with no added hormones in my family recipes. With Dietz and Watson, I can be mindful about my meals and my choices. Visit deetsandwatson. Com the Right Way to learn more about the deets difference. That's deetsandwatson. Com the right way this is an iHeart podcast.

[C]

Guaranteed human.