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The High Performance Podcast
Gary Lineker: How Feeling Like a Fraud Made Me One of England's Greatest
01:03:57
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- [00:03]
Gary Lineker
One of the many chats that we had just before he passed away, I was about to say, dad, you know, better go now, it's getting late. And he said, no, no, Sonny. And as I went, he went, I love you. And he was like, whoa.
- [00:16]
Damien
Yeah.
- [00:17]
Gary Lineker
And I went, love you too, dad. And I got out and I got in the lift and I was gone, believe you me. By the way, I wasn't the only one that was in awe of Diego Maradona. He was that much better than everyone else. I just. I can't really comprehend how you can not have a degree of empathy towards people having to flee their own country. And anyone who wants to have a pop at me about that, I don't think they're worth the time of day.
- [00:46]
Jake
What separates a good footballer from a truly great one? Talent's gotta help. And hard work, of course, matters. But our guest today believes his greatest asset is was neither of those things. Gary Lineker, the Golden Boot winner at the 1986 World Cup. 68 goals for England and one of only four players in history never to have been booked. And for three decades, he's been the face of football on British television. In this fascinating conversation, Gary tells us about the terrifying manager who pinned him up against the dressing room wall after he'd scored two goals, and what that moment really taught him for life. He opens up about what it was really like inside Barcelona at the peak of his powers. And he shares the Des Lyneham lesson that quietly shaped 30 years of his TV career. But underneath all of it is a man who spent most of his career convinced that he was blagging it, and who believes that his greatest asset was never his right foot, it was his mind. I'd like to welcome to High Performance the football and broadcasting legend, Gary Lineker.
- [01:55]
Gary Lineker
I think high performance personally is if you can perhaps overachieve and do better than perhaps people expect. Although I always think your own expectations are far more important than other people's expectations of you being successful and ultimately being happy with your levels of success. I think a sustained high performance is also consistency related, so I think that's important to do it over a long period of time.
- [02:26]
Damien
Of all of those things, are you most proud of the fact that you have had consistency, whether it was in your football career or in your broadcasting career?
- [02:34]
Gary Lineker
Yes, possibly. I think that's probably fair. I think what happens is you obviously learn what I mean. I've been fortunate enough to do pretty well in two different spheres, although they're both obviously related because they're Both, you know, the one, one consistent in my entire lifetime is so they're both related around football. But I think, you know, people often say what, you know, what was what, what were you better at? And stuff like that. But I think I always say I was born, I think I was born to be in the box and I kind of learned how to be on the box and I'll end up in a box not long after. I've been around that long. But I'm kind of proud of the longevity I've had in football and proud that I made something happen in terms of television that I probably wasn't a natural at, certainly not at the start. So I had to, you know, football kind of came easy. I knew what I was doing. It was just, you know, obviously you still have to work hard and give it everything, but it was, it, you know, had some kind of gift. Whereas TV wise, I understand the sport and I understand football, but I didn't understand television. So I think that the longevity I've had in TV makes me perhaps prouder in a way because it was, it was harder.
- [03:51]
Jake
So can you tell us about your early life? Thank you. Growing up in Leicester, we just spoke there about, about your dad being a market trader and that's not an easy job, you know, it's, it's long hours, early starts, etc. And you've just referenced the importance of hard work. What other kind of lessons were you picking up at that young age that have still continued to serve you?
- [04:16]
Gary Lineker
Well, it's difficult to remember that much of my childhood, most of it was playing football. But I think in terms of work ethic that came from my dad. I mean, he lived life as well and he would, you know, he'd get up at 3, 4 in the morning, he goes to the wholesale market and Leicester to buy all his produce. He'd then go to the market store. I mean, Leicester's a, you know, famous outdoor market. I think at one time it may still be the biggest outdoor market in Europe. And he used to, you know, then he'd go to the store, he'd set all his stuff up, all the, you know, the oranges, the apples, the strawberries, the bananas, whatever it is. And you know, and then he'd be serving customers all day, get home, I don't know, 6, 6:30 in the evening, he'd do his paperwork before and he'd have some dinner and then he'd fall asleep on a couch. He'd have a day off a week and he'd play cards for 24 hours solid drinking whiskey and stuff. But he's, you know, he worked all hours and I mean, it was hard. I mean, especially in, you know, winter when it's freezing cold, it's outside. And I think what it did do for me though was make me more determined to be good at football. Cause I didn't really want to follow in his footsteps, to escape it subconsciously, I think. But yeah, I learned a lot of lessons from my father. My mother was kind of, she was very calm. That's where I get my personality from. The fact that I'm very kind of stable. I don't get too carried away, neither not nor down. Very easy going. I don't have a temper. I never saw my mum lose her temper either.
- [05:55]
Jake
Right.
- [05:56]
Gary Lineker
Whereas my brother's more like my dad.
- [05:58]
Damien
So you said you learned a lot from your dad. What would you describe as the, the key things you learned from him?
- [06:02]
Gary Lineker
Well, people often talk about my kind of the fact that I never got booked, I never got a yellow card or a red card in my whole career. And I go back to. I remember one incident that remember really well is that I was playing again, I must have been about 14 at the time, and I was scoring a lot of goals by that stage. And I think the referee gave two or three decisions that I didn't agree with and I swore at the reference. And I, you know, and my dad walked onto the pitch, grabbed me by the scruff of the neck and said, right, you ever do that again, you will not play football. And he took me off the pitch.
- [06:40]
Damien
In front of all your mates?
- [06:41]
Gary Lineker
In front of all my mates. It was like, he was like, whoa.
- [06:43]
Jake
And was he done a cocktail? Was he just.
- [06:45]
Gary Lineker
No, no, he was just parent. He said, you don't, you don't talk to, you don't talk to referees, you don't talk to anybody like that. And just scruff the neck. Boom. In the van home. He wasn't a coach, but he used to take the team around. And we always sit in the back of the van, walking all over the place, the whole team.
- [06:59]
Damien
And how would you describ your relationship with him? I was quite moved when I heard you say on another podcast that the only time he said I love you was as he was dying.
- [07:10]
Gary Lineker
Yeah, just before. Yeah, it was. And we were always very close. I mean, he was. I mean, he would say that he was proud, you know, occasionally. And you know, I know that he got a lot of pleasure out of watching me play in particular, which was important. And it's True. I mean, when he was in his. When he ended up getting lung cancer, which wasn't overly surprising that he'd get that. Cause he used to smoke about 60 to 80 a day of those things without any tips on. So it was, you know, it wasn't that surprising but. And he was kind of phlegmatic about it. But, you know, I used to go up to Leicester and particularly towards the latter stages, I was up there every other day I get a call. We're not sure he's gonna, you know, so I go. And then back down. So I was up and down and, and in that time we had to add more kind of meaningful conversations than we probably ever had in our life because everything before was just fun and like banter or whatever you want to call it. And then we had these, you know, conversations and I, I mean, one of them was, you know, I mean, when, when my parents were. When I was at school, when I was, well, obviously 10 years old, because I passed the 11 plus, but we just moved to a house in a place called Kirby Muxler which was outside the center, so it was in the county. So when I passed the 11 plus, there was only one school that, that you could choose from. There's only one grammar school in that particular area and, and, but they didn't play football there. So my dad said, well, we, that we, we can't have that. He said that happened to me when I was young. He said, I'm not going to allow that to happen to you. So he said, we'll move. So. Right, fine. And I went to live with my grandparents for six months to enable me to go to what was then City of Leicester Boys Grammar School. It's obviously no grammar schools around now. Gotta be a certain age to remember the 11 plus. So I lived with my grandparents for six months and I remember having a conversation with them. I said, dad, I said, I said that was a hell of a thing to do. I was like 10 years old. What, you know, you must have. And I remember him saying, he said, yeah, yeah. He said, no, I couldn't let that happen to you. And he said, I could see your talent. I said, you know, did you know, did you know that I was going to be. Because I, because I never did. Even when I was 22, 23, 24, I never, I just thought I was blagging it. And my dad said, I always knew. And I said, well, you could have told me. And, and it was. And then this time with one of the many chats that we had Just before he passed away, probably the less coherent conversation I had with him, I was about to have said, dad, you know, better go now, it's getting late. And he said, no, no, all right, Sonny. And as I went, he went, I love you. And he was like, whoa. Yeah. And I, I went, love you too, dad. And I, I got out and I got in the lift and I was gone. I was crying and suddenly like eight nurses and people came in the lift and it was like, oh, no. Are you all right? Yeah. I'm sure they used to see people crying in hospitals, but. But it was moving it, you know, that generation, they didn't, you know, they didn't share their feelings very much. I think things. It's changed now. You, me, I'm totally different, my kids than that, but it's just how it was.
- [10:29]
Damien
And how much of that young life then was about trying to impress your dad or trying to get that nod of approval from him?
- [10:36]
Gary Lineker
Probably a lot of it, really. You know, I think most of us, we, you know, we look up to our parents and then when, eventually when we get adults, we work out that they've got weaknesses and foibles as well. But, yeah, absolutely. I'd always want to impress my dad. My mum used to come and watch my granddad as well. My granddad played for the army, for the British army, kind of just before the war or even during it, I think. So, you know, he was a really good footballer. So that's probably where I get certainly the speed from, because he was rapid. So, yeah, I think you'll want to please your parents. And I was always the same, even when I was a professional.
- [11:23]
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- [12:13]
Jake
See one things that stood out when I was reading about your young life as well, Gary, was just the variety of sports that you did as well. So you were a good level cricketer. You were a really good snooker player as well. How important do you think that variety of doing different sports, rather than just focusing solely on football was for your eventual career?
- [12:36]
Gary Lineker
It's hard to know because that's how I did it. So I've got nothing to compare it with. But I don't think it's that uncommon for someone who reaches the high level of sport in excellence to be good at other sports because obviously there's a certain hand, eye coordination, all those kind of things, certainly spatial awareness, that sort of stuff. I always thought I'd make it cricket, not football.
- [12:56]
Damien
Right.
- [12:57]
Gary Lineker
When I was a kid, I mean, I was very small. I didn't, I didn't reach puberty until I was 17, which was embarrassing at times in the shower when I joined Leicester, but I used to hide, sneak in the little shower at the end. So, yeah, so I didn't really grow until I was. Which is, I think, why my. Why I was slow to reach the top in football. So I wasn't like, you know, Michael Owen or Wayne Rooney or many of the young players we see today that emerged in their teens. I didn't, it was 20, 21 before I started to become a regular at Leicester in cricket. I honestly believed, I'm gonna, I'll make it cricket, you know, captain Leicestershire schools right through. I played in the England Schools Festival, but I loved cricket.
- [13:38]
Jake
Reach a moment where you had to make that decision then?
- [13:42]
Gary Lineker
I suppose so, but not really because football's opportunity just came along. I think I was about 12 years old when I got spotted and I used to go Tuesdays and Thursdays after school and then Saturday mornings if we didn't have a school match, to training at Leicester at what would be called an academy nowadays. And, and then I had trials when I was 16 and they said, we're going to take you on as an apprentice. And then cricket took a back seat, really. That was it. So it's just the opportunity that came along first was the one I, I've got no regrets about that.
- [14:14]
Damien
And we have lots of teachers and lots of parents that listen to this podcast. What advice would you give to parents of talented youngsters or teachers who are looking to get the best out of their young people to really Empower them, but not overall them.
- [14:30]
Gary Lineker
Just encourage them, really. I think that's what I got. I mean, one of my pet hates in life is. Is. Was watching my. Not because I was watching my boys. Watching my boys play football or cricket or rugby, whatever it was they were playing. Were the parents on the touchlines or even the coaches at times, because everything's so negative. Don't mess about with it there, boot it, go. And you just thought, no, you know, and these kids just want. Just want to have fun. And if you've got talent, if you're too critical of them, you'll knock it out them. You're either not the love of, the passion of the game, so therefore they won't play anymore, or you'll knock their confidence so they won't perform. Perform as well as they possibly could. I watched my four boys all play all different levels. You know, George, my eldest, by his own admittance, he wasn't very good. In fact, summing up parents, I had one woman come up to me, a mother of one of the players. She said, oh, is that your lad up front there, isn't it? I went, yeah, that's George. She went, well, I thought it'd be better than that. So it's, you know, you get that kind of nonsense on touchline. Everything's like, negative. So, you know, the advice I would always give them is just to be positive. I used to. I just sat on or stood usually on the side of the touchlines watching them for years and years and years, never said a word. I'd clap if they did well when they think. And then when, after the game, I'd say, oh, you did really well. Just encouragement.
- [15:53]
Damien
And how much of a challenge was it being an elite performer and being a parent at the same time? We have a lot of messages from people saying, I want to give 100% to my family life, I want to give 100% to my career. I'm not sure how and what to do.
- [16:08]
Gary Lineker
Well, I think the fortunate thing about being a footballer or even involved in football in the way I am now, is that as you will know yourself, I mean, doing the similar job is that even though you do work hard, there's a nice balance to the life. There's a lot of home time. And I think that that was important. It's not like you'd work in every day.
- [16:31]
Damien
Yeah.
- [16:32]
Gary Lineker
So there is a nice balance and I feel. I feel blessed to that because I've watched my kids grow up and spent a lot of time with them in that process.
- [16:41]
Damien
Can we talk about when the football career started then and you ended up at Leicester and Jock Wallace was the man in charge. What did that period teach you?
- [16:52]
Gary Lineker
Jock was great for me, yeah. I mean, I, I tactically it was, you know, from a bygone age and it was, you know, long ball and, but, you know, up and atom stuff. But he's a hugely significant person in my career, not necessarily for my football, but for how to live my life outside of football and how to give myself the best possible chance to succeed. He was a terrifying individual. He came down when I was, I think about 17, 18, and I was starting to make a bit of progress and the first time I ever saw him was he, I think he got the manager's job on a Tuesday. And then we had like a Wednesday night reserve game at Filbert street and we're playing the game and it came in at half time and then Jock came in at half time and this huge imposing figure and he walked through the door and he was cursing, you thought we are fighting, you useless little. And I was thinking, and he was looking at me and he walked up to me and he picked me up behind the scruff of the neck, put me against the, like, dressing room wall. He's going, don't you get running your wee lazy English little shake you all this stuff. And I was going, I wouldn't have minded, but I scored two goals in the first half. We were two nil up. And that, needless to say, I didn't do much in the second half. I was a gibbering wreck. And then at the end of the game, he came in again, he went, my office, nine o' clock in the morning. Forgive me for the terrible, just Scottish accent.
- [18:24]
Damien
It's not bad.
- [18:25]
Gary Lineker
So he said, So I thought, I thought that was it. Thought my career was gone, thought I was finished. But I got there about quarter nine and I sat outside his office like a naughty boy waiting to see the headmaster. And eventually, 15 minutes or so later, he said, laddie, go in, sit down. Sat down like this. And he says, and I was trembling, trembling. And he just said, I want to
- [18:48]
Damien
say one thing, you actually were trembling.
- [18:50]
Gary Lineker
I was trembling. I was definitely trembling, terrified. Thought I was going to be showing the door, yeah. And he said, I just want to say one thing, you were magnificent last night. I said, I beg your pardon? You were magnificent. He said, but I just wanted to make a wee point, laddie, that you've always got to give a little bit more. Let that be a lesson in life. And I Thought, oh my God, I thought you could have told me last night. But. And then, then he became very much not a father figure because that's because I had a father figure, but he became important because he, he would be, he'd lecture me about how to, you know, you don't go out, don't go out drinking after a game. And I went after tonight, don't go, you know, you'll have your times when it's the right moment after a Saturday game. And he was, he said, you've got a chance. And I, and I lived, you know, I still went out occasionally but I wasn't like so many of the others that would go and drinking pints and all this all night and going out and stuff. So I think that was important because I think he got and helped me to understand how to get, as a sportsman anyway, how to get the best out of myself.
- [19:57]
Jake
But I was going to ask Kerry, like, how does like a grammar school lad going from the environment, like what you had at school and in the cricket environment to going into that where resilience is almost expected of you, how did you learn to cope in that environment then?
- [20:15]
Gary Lineker
It's a good question, but it's a difficult question to answer because I, I don't honestly know. I mean, you, you're, you're right. And you know, I talked about, jokingly about, you know, I didn't reach puberty and I'm walking in the shot and I was genuinely, you know, because you, you don't want to show any kind of weakness. Yeah, yeah. And stuff like that. So, and it's, you know, it was tough and I, in those days the, it was an apprenticeship. So you, half the time you'd be spending either cleaning dressing room or cleaning players boots. I mean, I had the job of the first team dressing room, which was, which was good. But it was also tough because, you know, I was, you know, some of my heroes were there and I'm, you know, Frank Worthington was there for a few months at some point and you know, Mark Wellington, the old Leicester goalkeeper and so many, you know, of the people and players that I'd kind of worshiped as well. And I was there cleaning up the dressing room and it was, you know, they treat you, treat you. Yeah. And, and the thing is, I mean now it seems ridiculous but nowadays all the, every team, they have like a million kits, don't they? Fresh kit every day, a new shiny boot. So in those days they got one set of kit for the season, for training. So what we did on the Monday, they finished the train at whatever, you know, either sweaty or stinky or freezing or covered in mud or. And then we used to have to put it on these hangers and then take them all into the drying room and they just dry overnight. So you can imagine the stench by Thursday and Friday. And then we had to, you know, you had to kind of wipe the dressing room floors and, you know, mop them and clean the toilets and do all these kind of jobs, which I did until I was 18. And then again, it gave you a thing about, I really need to make it a football, because what.
- [22:02]
Jake
Did you ever have a back door? Like the idea that, actually, I'll go and give cricket a go.
- [22:08]
Gary Lineker
Well, I honestly thought if it didn't happen, I would. I would. I mean, I carried on playing. I always played right throughout, you know, when I was football, and I played right throughout my career. And I played. Played once for one Thursday, which I never normally do, but I used to play for. When I was playing for Tottenham, I used to live in St. John's Wood, so I used to play for a club called Cross Arrows, who play pretty much every day in September. It's like a challenge. And for me, that was perfect because they'd play on a Tuesday, on Monday or what, so I could fit it in around if I got a free week. And then I played on this Thursday, one day, which I wouldn't normally do when we've got a game on a Saturday, but. So I went and played in the afternoon after training, and I got a few runs and then we fielded and they said, come on, Gary, have a bowl. And I said, I don't bowl. I don't want to bowl. He said, because the game was kind of meandering to a draw. So I don't want to bowl, I don't bowl. They said, go on, have a go. And I went, all right. So came in, the second ball went like that, and my side went, twang. Pulled him. I thought, oh, no. And I was struggling, and I went and trained. The next morning, I think we were playing Villa on the Saturday, and I came in and said, I've got to go and see Terry Venables. And I said, terry. And he went, what you done? He said, I've tore my side. He said, how'd you do that? And I thought, do I lie? And I thought, no. I said, I did it playing cricket. He said, you did what? He said, that's it, no more cricket. No more cricket. I said, you can't. I said, no, I Said, no more bowling, Terry, No. And we came to a deal on no more bowling. So I always played. In fact, probably my favorite. You can forget all the World Cups and all that. Well, probably won my favorite days ever. It was a Monday and it was the week before the start of the new season. And we had a friendly at White Hart Lane in the evening. I think it's against West Ham. Not sure.
- [24:07]
Damien
And wouldn't be much of a friendly then, would it?
- [24:10]
Gary Lineker
No. Yeah, but it was just a warm up game, you know, so it doesn't matter. But anyway, so on the, the night before, on the Sunday, I get a phone call from a guy called Dave English, who ran the Bunburys, which was a charity cricket club, but he also organized a lot of testimonial cricket games for players. He did a lot of good. Wonderful guy. He said, we've got a game tomorrow. Great game at Finchley, just up the road from you. He said, can you play? I said, I can't, can't play tomorrow. So I've got a game. So I've got a game. I said, I can't, I'd love to play. He went, oh, we've got so many players like this and that. He's playing this. And he. I said, I could, I can't. I said, I can't. Just can't. I'd love to. He said, what about, what about if you bat first, you can open. When you're out, you can go. He said, I just need a name. I need another celebrity name. I went, christ, go on then. So went along. And the first over bowling was Courtney Walsh, right? So I'm there and he does this, he goes off this ridiculous long run up and then like comically bounces it miles over my head as a joke. And then the next ball he goes after about a three yard run and he's gonna bowl. And I went, courtney, I said, would you give us a proper over, you know, like a proper foot? And he went, you sure, man? I went, yes. So I thought, go on then. So he goes. So he goes on his normal run. He comes down the first ball, he's like, christ, he went past the bat before I even see it. Second one, it was similar. He was sensible. He was kind of bowling it just full length and outside the off stump. He didn't want to hurt. So second ball, I'd left and then a got a couple of forward on the last ball of the over. I just thought, well, he's pitching it, that I'll take a bit. And I put A front leg, and I stroked it and he went right through the covers for four. And it was like, whoa. So it was one of those days where I just couldn't miss. I ended up 112not out at lunch, sweating. 212not out of lunch, I was thinking, and I said, dave, I gotta go. He said, no, go on, you've done me. You've done me proud. Off you go. So I went off and played that night. School had tricks. Yes. What a day. That's a high performance to get the World Cup. That was a high performance.
- [26:20]
Jake
Dubai lottery ticket.
- [26:22]
Gary Lineker
I should have done. Yeah, it was amazing.
- [26:24]
Damien
There is an interesting recurring theme, though, isn't there, when we. When we look back over all that period, Whether it is your dad pulling you off the football field in front of your mates, whether it is hiding in the shower at the end because you were a late developer, whether it is Jock making you shiver in his office with panic. All of that is resilience building. And I wonder whether we create resilient enough young people these days. You know, Damon and I talk often about our frustration with helicopter parenting, where we're all addicted to hovering over our children, smoothing everything in front of them. And all of those are really good lessons that the struggles and the failures and the low points and the hard times were the bits that created you.
- [27:05]
Gary Lineker
It's hard to know, isn't it? Because there's no kind of guidebook, is there, for parenting when you just get this little thing, don't you? And off you go. So it's a really hard. A hard one. I don't know. And often, you know, often think about, why have I. Why have I been so successful? Why have I genuinely think many, many times, why. Why have I been so lucky? You know, I always think, sometimes because I'm not religious, I'm. I'm. You know, I don't mind admission, I'm an atheist. I don't believe any of that stuff. But I do wonder sometimes whether there's some other planet out there, whether they're playing a PlayStation game or something, and we're just part of their game. And whoever I've got has been a really good player and has given me one hell of a life. You know, I do wonder why, you know, it's just, you know, obviously I was given a gift to play football and I've. I had a good work ethic, but so many things have happened to, you know, like, I didn't get injured. I didn't, you know, at all until the very end of My career. So I had so much good fortune. I think it's all. It's always important to.
- [28:05]
Jake
Did you feel lucky even as a young man? Did you feel that sense of fortune? Or is it more in hindsight?
- [28:11]
Gary Lineker
I was kind of. Without being good at sport, life would have been very different for me because I was, you know, I think I would have been bullied at school. I was. They were kind of marginally that way anyway because I was like, you know, this tiny geeky kid with like darkish skin and I pretty much racist abuse. Although I'm not. I'm, you know, I'm as English as they come.
- [28:29]
Jake
Really.
- [28:29]
Gary Lineker
Yeah, all the time. All the time. Even in professional football. I had that a couple of times. I wouldn't ever name any names. Yeah. So I got that kind of nonsense, which was a bit weird. But you know, whether that was part of something that. That made me. I don't know. But other people might not be able to handle that. But I think by, you know, how you. My greatest strength in my. To me was not, you know, not my right foot, not my. This. It was. Was my mental strength and I always had that. You know, I was never nothing, you know, if. Even if I had a shocking game or things were not going very well. Yeah, it never really. Never really got to me.
- [29:06]
Jake
So even if we. If we fast forward a bit into your career in that build up to 1986 when you're in the team but you haven't scored for a while, there's lots of media speculation as to whether you deserve your place. How were you processing all of that that you in like. I've seen the documentaries where it wasn't like. Like the hotel rooms in Mexico were quite austere. You've not got the ability to follow
- [29:31]
Gary Lineker
what you used to. I mean football changed dramatically and it was very different back then. But it's so much how it is and how it was that that was. You just got on with it.
- [29:43]
Jake
But the bit about you personally is a bit that I'm interested in of how did you cope with that pressure that you. There was like you'd injured your arm. There was a speculation about your role.
- [29:53]
Gary Lineker
Oh, for that. That particular thing. Well, I thought my World cup was. Was done, you know. But I managed to find this sprint that they would have. It's right to the last minute they splint splints on and stuff. And in the end I had this one that was. It was fairly useless but it meant I could play. Yeah. I mean I was in so much pain in 86. The whole just running, just running. The wind against my hand when I was running was absolutely agony, let alone when falling over and stuff. But I was so determined to. I mean it's the World cup, you do everything.
- [30:24]
Jake
But how did you block out the noise about like whether you were good enough to be there or the speculation around you again?
- [30:32]
Gary Lineker
I have my self doubts all the time. You know, I hear people say, you know, you. I always knew I was gonna. And I, I didn't. I genuinely even, you know, even after the World cup, you know, when I was 16, 17, breaking through at Leicester, I used, you know, I remember first time I was in the reserve team, I think this will find me out. And they're getting. Then I got in the first team and I was sitting, I was sitting around all these my heroes and thinking what am I doing in here? And then you know, I struggled for a bit because I was as I said, small and you know, and I didn't really break into it until I was 20, 21. Then I started scoring a lot of goals and then I got an England call up. I was at home one Monday afternoon, just got home from training and the phone rang and my mum answered it and she said it's when the old days of a landline remember them. So she answered it and she said scored a mill. Who was the then Leicester manager who was after Jotworth? So I went, what? I thought oh God, what have I done? Because I never had a phone call ever from a manager. So I've gone to the phone, I've gone boss. And he's gone. Grab yourself a toothbrush, come to the ground, pick up your football boots, drive up to Wrexham. Bobby Robson's been on the phone, you're in the England squad. So that's what I did. I did exactly that. And I always remember driving up and it was so embarrassing. I used to have this little sponsored car with my name all written over the side of it. I remember. So I drove up all the way way to, to Wrexham because we were playing Wales and, and I arrived there and I remember seeing like Tony Woodcock, Pete Shelton and all these Terry Bush, all these players that I was like,
- [32:11]
Damien
well they would have been your heroes, right?
- [32:13]
Gary Lineker
Well definitely. I mean I was 24 by the time I got near, you know, to England. But it, I was still, as I said, I always think I was a little bit behind in terms of my maturity probably because of the reasons I talked about before. But you know, I just think anyway, I didn't get on that game. But then I, you know, I think it's a. It's about a year later that actually made my debut and scored my debut. Full start, I should say. I played 10 minutes in at Hamden and then I started scoring goals with England. It just didn't seem to make any difference which level that I'd still score. I enjoyed it. I just went out and just played and did my job and I didn't get nerves. I don't get nerves. I don't. I don't know. I'd hear people talk about that feeling of, like nervous tension or butterflies and I. I don't know what that feels like. So.
- [33:04]
Damien
For anything. Never had it for anything, really.
- [33:07]
Gary Lineker
No. You know, and then I went to the World cup and I scored six goals and we. I won the Golden Boot. And then. And then I went back and I. And then suddenly I'm playing for Barcelona. Yeah. And then in my first classico, which is. Is January, I scored a hat trick in it at home. We win 3, 2. And then a month later, I scored four goals against Spain and Bern and I genuinely thought I was blagging it. And I remember running back to the halfway line and I. And Brian Robson's alongside me and I went, robo. He went, what? I. Why am I so lucky? And he went, oh, do off.
- [33:41]
Damien
But you didn't feel that.
- [33:43]
Gary Lineker
But that was it. And then I started and it was at that point that I started to realize, actually, no, I'm good at this. I am genuinely good. What age were you then that would be. I'd have been 26, so 25.
- [33:55]
Damien
Did you not have an ego? You didn't barrel around?
- [33:58]
Gary Lineker
We've all got an ego. But no, I wasn't. No. Big time. No, no, I don't. I hope not. I mean, I was confident by, you know, once I'd got to that stage, once I get to. Once I was at Barcelona and doing all these things, I think there was more. More confidence came into my game. But it was. It's weird to try and explain to people because I don't think you can get to the very top of something by not really believing in yourself. And I did believe in myself, but I didn't see myself on the same level as the other great players in world football.
- [34:32]
Damien
But maybe that was actually a brilliant strength because it meant you were never comfortable, you were challenging yourself.
- [34:39]
Gary Lineker
Constantly challenged, constantly pushing myself to do more. I was never satisfied with anything. In fact, it was always like, oh, you probably just got away with that. I don't know, it's weird and it's really difficult to explain and it's probably not the greatest advice, but that's how I was and I've always been like that.
- [34:55]
Jake
Do you remember that game when there was a centenary match at Wembley and you were on the Rest of the world team and you had people like Madonna, Diego. Yeah, like all, like the greats of the game. What were you thinking when you were in that dressroom at that stage? Did you had you accepted.
- [35:12]
Gary Lineker
That was around this period, it was the Football League centenary, and so it was the English League playing against the rest of the world. So it was unfriendly, but it was. And I was playing for the rest of the world because I was at Barcelona at the time and not part of the Football League. But believe you me, by the way, I wasn't the only one that was in awe of Diego Maradona. When he walked in, everyone was like, tongs were hanging out, really. I mean, he had that much of a presence. He was that much better than everyone else. And Pletton, he played in that game and there was like all sorts of great players and he just walked in. He walked in. He was the only one that was paid to play in that game quite a lot. But did we care? No. And he came in and the first thing he did, he just sat there, he got changed and he. To his shorts and then he just, you know, like you get a pair of socks and you roll them together and he just juggled it on his left foot for about 2 minutes, 3 minutes. Then he walked out and did this thing that kicked the ball up in the air.
- [36:09]
Jake
He was just.
- [36:10]
Gary Lineker
He was just on another level. And for me, what is unbelievable is that you can play at the highest level of sport, like I've managed to do, and like lots of those other players to do. But then there can be someone that is that much better than everyone else, still that kind of genius. It's like Messi in the last 15 years. He just does things that ordinary mortals can't do. Just can't. But that was magical, you know, that was magical. I'd see that.
- [36:40]
Jake
So when did you develop these superstitions
- [36:43]
Gary Lineker
that you have, like, loads of those. When I was young, yeah. So do you know what worked out, though, in the end? Yeah, being superstitious. It's unlucky.
- [36:52]
Jake
But were they coping strategies that. That you think? Maybe not deliberately, but.
- [36:57]
Gary Lineker
Yes, I think they were. Yeah, I think they were. It's all. It's all about because you've it's about confidence and calmness and being. Cause my. My main worry. When I. Before I played in the game, the only thing that I used to worry a little bit about was how I would feel physically once the game started, right? Because it's amazing how different you can get out on the pitch and suddenly, oh, it's everything. Everything's hard work, everything's aching or, you know, it's the same now when I go in the gym three, I've gone the gym three days a week, two of the days I might feel great, and then one day I feel awful. And as I get older now it's two days that I feel awful and one day I feel great. But the important thing is that. But you're comfortable and confident yourself. So if I was on a bad run, I'd do, like, silly things. Like, if I go more than, say, two, three games without a goal, I get a haircut. Makes no sense, except that it's amazing how many times it worked. And it probably kicks out the negative vibes that you've got in your head. So even though it's super, if I play a match, if I scored in the first half, I'd keep the same shirt on. If I didn't, I'd change the shirt at halftime. There's all sorts of nonsense in there, but it's just, again, it's like. Like something fresh, something just different. Thinking at the time, I didn't think of it as that way, but the more I. As I reflect on it now, because I. Embarrassing, really, all these silly things that you do, you know, I'd drive a certain route if it was going well, and then I'd try somewhere else if it wasn't. And all these stupid things. On the way to the game, Rio said I used to, you know, the water bottles.
- [38:27]
Jake
Yeah.
- [38:27]
Gary Lineker
He said you had 20 on his head before he went out. I mean, it's all sorts of nonsense, but if it works.
- [38:34]
Jake
Yeah, but did you keep them right to the end of your career, those.
- [38:37]
Gary Lineker
Yeah, yeah. I'm ashamed to say.
- [38:42]
Damien
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- [41:04]
Damien
I'm so interested in this conversation about it. You talk almost like it happened to you.
- [41:08]
Jake
You.
- [41:08]
Damien
Yeah, rather than you made this happen.
- [41:10]
Gary Lineker
Yeah, I think there's a they're both true. You know you've got to make it happen. But I'm also aware that I was given a talent. I got a talent born with a talent that you know, so you can't just go to someone, you know, some kid playing football who's not got that talent and, you know, say, if you work hard enough, you're going to go all the way to the top. You know, if you work hard enough, you'll get to the best level that you can possibly get. And that's. I think that's as much as you can say to someone in that sense.
- [41:36]
Damien
But I think there is an important conversation to have here, that even with all that talent, you're doing yourself a disservice if you don't talk to us about the hard work that had to go with it. So did you make a conscious decision at one point to be the hardest worker in the room you mentioned earlier on?
- [41:51]
Gary Lineker
I don't think I was the hardest worker in the room in terms of training and stuff like that. I didn't really enjoy training because I didn't think it ever was that helpful, apart from I didn't mind the working out, you know, the preseason, getting fit, which was important. But I used to get really kind of frustrated by how training used to be then, and I know it's changed a lot now. You know, you play on bumpy pitches, and all I wanted to do was practice my craft, which was, you know, making runs, scoring goals, getting into dangerous areas, whereas most of the training was five asides with little goals. And it used to bore me, didn't stimulate me, and I used to think it was. It wasn't really. What was it giving us, especially strikers. You know, you finish it in a goal that's really small and then you can't. You know, how does that help? So I never really loved training, but I used to think a lot about the game, and I think most of my training was off the training ground, off the pitch. And I loved working with Terry Venoms. When we were in Barcelona, we used to go to lunch two or three times a week, which you'd never normally do with a coach. Never, but probably because he was the English guy there, and I was with Mark Hughes, and we'd go for lunch to the Beach Club or sometimes, and we'd just discuss football and movement. And he was the coach that was so different because I played for lots of really good coaches and there are loads around, but it was always, this is the way the team plays as a structure. There's a way. This is how you play within it. But with Terry, he'd come to me two or three times a week. So I've been thinking about this, you know, if the ball's there on the right hand side, and if you just check maybe to the left and then spin out to the right, do you think that that would work? And sometimes I go, not really, Terry, but then. And then other times I say, maybe, and then we'd try it. And then every now and again there'd be something. You go, I actually do that. And I loved that. For me, the work, which I didn't find it as work was, was thinking about the game, thinking about how to get better, thinking. But for me, training was always a disappointment, you know, And I wanted to do shooting. And then you. On the days we'd do shooting, everybody did it. So you got like 20 players knocking the ball to the coach, getting one back, you get a shot every 10 minutes. But it was only in the latter stages in my career I was confident enough to go to a coach, which was, Terry, not when I was at Barcelona. Because, do you know, in Barcelona they only have one tiny pitch as a training ground right next to the stadium.
- [44:23]
Jake
The one at the stadium.
- [44:24]
Gary Lineker
Right. Yeah. It's obviously magnificent now, but when I, you know, after that, when I went to Tottenham, I. I used to say to him, is it all right if I go on my own with a goalkeeper and a bag of balls and someone to knock the ball? And he was fine. He went, yeah, you do that. And then I actually felt I was getting something out of it. That's. I want to practice what I do on the pitch. I don't want to stand there and be part of a team working on team shape where you don't do anything for an hour and a half. And it just bored me.
- [44:51]
Damien
I want to move the conversation on to something a bit different. You've said that you felt really blessed and you can't almost believe that this is the life that happened to you. And if you don't want to discuss this, and that's absolutely fine. But there's probably the two moments that would not make you feel like you've been blessed is the two separations that you've had? We have a lot of people that listen to this and talk to us about relationships in the workplace with partners, with their children, quite often, often. Would you mind sharing us in this wonderful life of abundance and being so blessed and achieving so much what those quite difficult personal journeys have taught you.
- [45:30]
Gary Lineker
I don't see them as that. I see them as two really, really successful marriages. Right. I had 20 years with Michelle, as people do. We married young and after a long period of time, we just Drifted slightly apart, made a decision to go on our own. I think that was a really good marriage. And my second marriage with Danielle, that was purely a thing about children and change. And I mean, obviously there are ups and downs in all marriages anyway, and then breakups, you know, it's actually getting around to doing it. The difficulty is the actual procedure of the divorce thing in this country, which has been absurd. And I think it's gonna be changed where somebody has to take the blame for a failed marriage, which was ludicrous. And I think that's, that's an interesting
- [46:12]
Damien
way to look at, at those divorces though, because, yeah, we, we speak sometimes about manifestation on this podcast, which basically means if you operate with a, a high energy, high positive energy, good things happen to you. And some people would have looked at those two and said, well, I was married for 20 years and it failed. What a shame. Or I had a great relationship that was at the beginning and it didn't go anywhere.
- [46:34]
Gary Lineker
That's.
- [46:35]
Damien
But yeah, you choose life. I wonder whether that's the reason why, why good things have happened to you throughout your life. Because this is the power of looking on the positive side.
- [46:45]
Gary Lineker
Well, I am a positive. I've always been a positive person. And I think it, I'm sure it's probably helped me in many ways. No question about that. But, but that's how I genuinely feel. I'm, you know, I'm friendly with both my ex wives and, and you know, and you said if you could do it all again, would you? I'd.
- [47:04]
Jake
Yes.
- [47:05]
Gary Lineker
I wouldn't change a thing. I got four wonderful boys with Michelle and a best mate with Danielle.
- [47:11]
Jake
Can you offer us some advice on how you maintain those friendships? Even while the romantic element might fizzle away, that people listening to this, even if it's not about personal relationships, it might be about in the workplace.
- [47:27]
Gary Lineker
I can only go on my own experiences and that's. And I'm someone who doesn't like confrontation for a start. So I'll do everything I can. It's in my nature to try and make everything okay, and that's important. I think the difficult thing in divorce is that what happens is if it's because someone else has been involved, then that becomes a difficult experience. I don't know what that's like. So from my experience, it was more of just, okay, let's do it. And then the difficult bit is dealing with the media side of it, who. It suddenly becomes this massively negative story when it doesn't necessarily need, need to be that and the other difficult thing was, is, is when lawyers get involved because. And people who've been through this will know exactly what I'm talking about. You know, you can go perhaps with hoping to have a nice amicable split and then the divorce lawyers get in and the letters go out and then you start to think, oh, she doesn't like me, or, you know, and then, and, and basically they're just trying to make money for themselves. You know, that's. With the first divorce, I learned a lot from that because, you know, I think we were exploited and I think in my, well, my second divorce cost, I think lawyers fees was 500, 600 quid because we did it online. And you can do it because it's amicable. And that's. That would be my best advice. Try and make your split as amicable as possible because it's so much better and it's so much less stressful. And that's important because dealing with stress is not fun for anyone.
- [49:01]
Damien
I love your positive outlook. I love that you look on the good side. So how does that sit in this modern world where every time someone puts up a tweet overcomes the criticism? People with 100% of an opinion, with only 10% of the knowledge about either you or what you've said. And we've all been there where we put things up and we feel almost bullied into deleting them because it's just not worth the heat. What's your relationship like with this modern world?
- [49:28]
Gary Lineker
I doesn't really, I don't really. I don't get affected by it. Doesn't. I don't. I put my opinions up and saying. And if people disagree, disagree, if they get abusive, then I, how do you
- [49:40]
Damien
not get affected by it? Because so many people.
- [49:41]
Gary Lineker
I don't really get affected because I, I don't read it, you know, on the, you know, on Twitter you get the, there's different columns. There's the bit where you get, get people that I follow so, you know, or. And blue tick holders. And then there's another column of it which people just reply, I never look at the left hand column ever, because why would you.
- [50:03]
Damien
But you obviously have done to make the decision not to.
- [50:06]
Gary Lineker
Well, I've seen it, but. And I see what people do and I, I think, I mean, I went, you know, what, what things do people have a go at me about? They'll talk about football and stuff, but really, you know, everyone's got an opinion of football. Why would you ever get upset by somebody disagreeing with you on a football opinion on things like refugees, for example. I'm hugely supportive of humanitarian issues and I will continue to be. So I just can't really comprehend how you can not have a degree of empathy towards people having to flee their own country, which is an unimaginable thing to have to do. I mean, you can imagine if suddenly London was completely bombed like we're seeing in Ukraine now, and we all had to go. I think you've got to think like that a little bit. So I've always been, you know, on that side of things and anyone who wants to have a pop at me about that, I don't think they're worth the time of day. That's my personal opinion. So why would I let it affect me? Also, don't forget, if you growing up as a footballer, you get dogs abuse. Yeah. You know, even from the onto crowd, you know, I've done, you know, you get. You've got your name being sung by, by, you know, 10,000 fans when you're away from home singing Carolina, you're a wanker, you're wanker. Which I had numerous times. But I always took that as a compliment because if the opposition fans are singing songs about, you must be. They must be worried about you. So I think it's probably something that I've got used to over the years, but I've always avoided really reading the negative stuff. Sometimes I put tweets out just to do something ridiculously sarcastic and then have a look to see if anyone actually believes I really thought that. But again, that's. That's my mentality. But it was like when I played football, I didn't want to see negativity and, and people say, well, you know, it's like now, if you're on social media now as a footballer, I mean, you know, it's a different thing. But in a similar way, when I played, if I'd scored two goals or hat trick or something on. On the Saturday, I'd buy every Sunday newspaper.
- [52:08]
Jake
Would you?
- [52:08]
Gary Lineker
Yeah. And Monday newspaper if I hadn't scored, never buy a newspaper. So it's a similar thing. It's obviously different because it's social media and it's all, all encompassing, but it's a similar, similar mindset.
- [52:22]
Jake
But how much is integrity important for you? And the reason I asked that is that I remember like your last game in English football was at United and you got a stand innovation, didn't you? At the end?
- [52:34]
Gary Lineker
It was beautiful. That's one of the reasons that I've always had A degree of affinity towards. Yeah.
- [52:39]
Jake
I remember being with my brothers, and I think part of the reason, because I remember even at the time when you came off the field and we sort of reflected on why you got it, and I think it was because you'd acted throughout your career with integrity, and I think that was what people were recognizing.
- [52:54]
Gary Lineker
I think it's important. Oh, you know, I really do. Especially in modern times. You know, there's a lot of hate out there now. I mean, we've always been tribal creatures, but I think, you know, with social media and things, it's become more so. And why can't you have a different opinion to someone, whether. Whatever it is, even if it, you know, why does it have to be so divisive? And I think sometimes, you know, games are played with us in this country to make us more divisive, and I think that's. That's really dangerous. And I think we're seeing it more and more, and I think that's a terrible shame.
- [53:27]
Damien
What do you mean by that?
- [53:28]
Gary Lineker
I mean by stoking the fire. Like, take Brexit, for example, which I don't talk about anymore. And I don't, because it's done. And we're on this course that I didn't agree with at the time, so, you know, we'll see where it leads us. But it was like, you're either a Brexit or a Remainer and then. Or a Ramona. Why? Two or three friends of mine are Remainers. Two or three friends of mine were Brexiteers, if you want to use those words. Do we not get on that because of it? No, we're still best. It doesn't make any difference just because you have slightly different beliefs about something. But I think there's this thing where you, whether it's through the newspapers with their constant front page, you know, having a go at the other side, and it's all become like, really nasty. And I can't. I can't comprehend that. I just don't have that in. I just. It's just really weird. You see it from right at the top of the government, 100%, because. Right.
- [54:26]
Damien
Stand against things. Now your life used to be, what do you stand for? Yeah. Now it's all about what do you stand against. Yeah, and we see it. You're totally right. From the very top of government. It's about what they. At what they disagree with, rather than what they actually have. Those. Their own policies. And what. What should we all be doing to live in a world with Less anger and less polarization and less disagreement. Could we all be doing a better job ourselves?
- [54:49]
Gary Lineker
Well, we could, but I mean, it's really. I mean, wouldn't it be lovely to. To find a way of actually doing that? Before we wrap this up, I do
- [54:57]
Damien
want to talk to you about moving into television and the importance of Des Lyneham, who I know, as you know, is a hero of mine. And I want people to understand the importance of generosity, of spirit in this world. What did he do for you when you first came into this industry?
- [55:11]
Gary Lineker
He did a hell of a lot. And obviously when I first came in, I sat next to him as a pundit for a couple of years while I did a bit of radio and tried to. As you well know, there are no kind of facilities to practice television, live television. If you're doing live television, you go straight into the deep end. And my deep end was the highlights of the 1996 Euros. And my second show was England, Scotland's highlights. And I think we like 8, 8, 9 million people watching it or something stupid. So it was kind of in at the deep end. But Des was always, always really amazingly supportive. But at the same time I would push Des and asked him loads of questions about, because I was with what I think is a doyen of, of sports ports presenters. And he was always incredibly helpful and there were loads of things I noticed that he would do. I remember, I mean, I said this before, but if I used to look at the autocue and stuff and he'd say, I'm joining us this evening, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they were joining us and I did this all season and I think, I think it, I remember it was once written on his screen as saying, and joining me this evening, I heard him say to the auto, continue, can you take me off and just put us, please? So I said to him, I've noticed that, but you always say us. And I said, why'd you do that? And he said, well, you've got to remember this show is not me. It's about everybody involved, everybody that's watching at home. It's a thing that we do all together. And ever since, I've never said joining me or I may have done if it was a mistake, but I've joined it. And there were lots of little things. And he used to say, he said so many presenters, he said, he said they're all, he said they're all terribly good, they're very good. He said, but they don't take chances. They don't try and Have a bit of fun with something, you know, don't take it too serious. Try and think of a fun closing line. He said, sometimes it will be rubbish, sometimes, he said, but people will notice and it'd be more impactful. And they were things that I took on board and I've used right throughout my television career. And you know, I've try and be funny and most of the time it's not.
- [57:28]
Jake
But delivered it in a better way than Jock Wallace.
- [57:30]
Gary Lineker
It doesn't matter if you've got, you know, if you've got 3 million, 4 million, whatever is normally watchmatch of the day. If, if just a small percentage of those people laugh at some, one of your stupid jokes, then, then you've perhaps made someone smile and that's important.
- [57:43]
Damien
Really nice. Before we finish, we have our quick fire questions. What would you say, Gary, are your three non negotiable behaviors that you and the people around you need to buy into?
- [57:53]
Gary Lineker
I think kindness, I think, I think that's, that's, that's really, really important. Self awareness. I think it's very important. Which gives you an understanding of, I think of caring for people as well, which is, I think, an important thing. And a third one, I think the third one is have some fun, you know, have fun with life. We only get one go.
- [58:20]
Jake
If you could go back to one moment in time, what would it be and why?
- [58:25]
Gary Lineker
That's a good question. 1990 World cup semi final. Probably not the penalty shootout, but probably Chris Waddle's shot when he goes across the goal, hits the inside of the post. See, now I know which way it will come out. So I would have moved myself a couple of yards to the side and knocked it in and went from 2:1. And that's the only football match in my whole career where I look back and think, if only. I know there's the Brazil penalty thing, but that, you know, that's just a personal goal. But being that close to a World cup final, to lose on a penalty shootout or to be a whisker of the wrong side of the post when it hit, Chris Waddle's ball came back out and I honestly believe we'd have won the final. Obviously I don't know that, but, you know, they weren't the same Argentinian side that we'd played four years previously. And that would have meant we were 90 minutes away from football immortality. And that's the only thing. And Bobby Rossman's exactly the same. I had the conversation with him. It was the only thing that he Ever used to blank every night, not every day. I don't think about it all the time, honest. But every now and again, you just think, only, what would you say is
- [59:35]
Damien
your highest performance moment? And what is the time where you feel you really let yourself down?
- [59:41]
Gary Lineker
Highest performing moment. I think it has to be the winning the Golden Boot, probably the hat trick against Poland, because it changed my life. It changed my life. It put me right at the top, you know, before that, I think I'd gone five or six games without a goal with England. I expected to be dropped for that game because we'd have bad results in the first two and we needed to win the game. And I hadn't scored, even though I'd gone close. I thought Bobby would leave me out, but he didn't. He left Mark Hateley out for the first time ever. I think England played two small strikers and Beardsley played just off me. And it worked. And I scored three goals in the first half, and then I got two in the next game, and then one against Argent. I've got the goal in the Argentinian game that no one remembers, and then I'm sat with a Golden Boot. And life was different then. I was off to Barcelona and everything was different in my life. So it has to be that.
- [60:36]
Damien
And the time where you feel you most let yourself down on the football
- [60:40]
Gary Lineker
pitch, probably that moment, my dad, yeah, when he dragged me off the pitch. But realist in the football sense, probably that silly penalty against Brazil. In a way, he was only friendly, but I was just being a. Trying to be clever. I'll do it in style with a little Panenka. And that came off wrong.
- [60:58]
Damien
And then a non football. Non football.
- [61:00]
Gary Lineker
I'm trying to think a non football. I've done things that I. I wish I hadn't really got involved with the Brexit thing, really, to be honest, I don't mind admitting, you know, not the sense of putting out that I was gonna vote for Romaine, because I don't mind putting out what I do, but the thing afterwards, and then getting a bit carried away with the fact that we lost. And I think if I had my time again, I wouldn't have bothered with that.
- [61:25]
Jake
What's been the biggest sacrifice you've made in your pursuit of high performance? And would you do it again?
- [61:29]
Gary Lineker
I think all the sacrifices I made, I don't think they're that great.
- [61:33]
Damien
Great. Maybe that's what I mean.
- [61:36]
Gary Lineker
What a life I've had. Training hard, you know, or thinking about the game all the time or. Or Going to TV and media and I mean, I feel I've had such an incredibly fortunate life and such a lovely balance to my life that I don't think that I don't consider anything that I've done as a sacrifice.
- [61:57]
Damien
Brilliant. And the final question, this is kind of your last message to the people that have sat and listened to this conversation, which I've really loved, by the way. Would you describe your one golden rule to living a high performance life?
- [62:09]
Gary Lineker
Yeah. Give yourself the best chance to succeed, work as hard as you possibly can, do everything that you possibly can and just aim high and then you'll reach that level that then you'll be satisfied with yourself. And that's the most important thing. If you know you've done as well as you possibly can, then I think you can be satisfied.
- [62:38]
Damien
Damien Jake. I really want people to listen to that conversation with Gary and realize that sometimes there isn't loads and loads of thought that goes into someone's high performance life. And actually when you are a high performer, the reality is that sometimes it does feel like you're on someone else's roller coaster ride and you're being carried along and taken along with the it. But I think the key thing with Gary is that he has such a positive outlook on life and we've had these conversations so many times on high performance. If you have a positive outlook, if you see the good in every situation, if you believe that great things are going to happen more often than not,
- [63:14]
Jake
they do, yeah, definitely. I think the big thing that I took away from what he, from what Gary was talking about in his career was just sometimes just put one foot in front of another father. Don't get blinded by thinking, I need to get to a certain level. He said that he was 24 when he eventually made his England debut, which was relatively late for it. But he wasn't missing any of the steps of the process out. He was following the process of going from being an apprentice to a young professional to establishing himself at Leicester. And it's almost that willingness to wait and to be patient in your pursuit of high performance and trying to rush it and get there too soon.
- [63:55]
Damien
And even though he likes to look at the positives, you know, let's talk about the fact that, you know, he was embarrassed by his dad on a football field at a young age. He was a late developer, which also embarrassed him in front of his peers. He had a really challenging manager, Jock Wallace at Leicester. He had really low, low points on a football field. You know, he, he's been central to a game of football which has taken this country so close to a World cup that they didn't win. He's then had times where he's been pilloried on social media and kind of been forced to delete things that he's tweeted, for example. All of those things have happened to him, but he still chooses to see his life as blessed and positive and wonderful. And I think there's a real value in realizing that those moments that are hard and not necessarily negative moments in our lives, they're all part of the story. And you can, in almost every situation, you can find the positive at the end of it.
- [64:52]
Gary Lineker
Yep.
- [64:52]
Jake
And if there's a message that people listening to this could take away, it's about that very word, gratitude. It's about practicing gratitude, which is what we're hearing Gary talk about. He's not just grateful when things go well, he's grateful for when they don't go well. He still practices that gratitude, which then gives you that spirit of abundance, that gives you the capacity to be kind, which attracts people that have a similar mindset into your world. But if you want a starting point, it's about having that attitude of gratitude,
- [65:23]
Damien
love, that prioritize empathy over opinion. How many times have we said that on this podcast?
- [65:28]
Jake
We hear it so often that it's not by chance. It's the ability to step into somebody else's world, see it from their perspective, and just suspend your own ego is such an important characteristic.
- [65:40]
Damien
Loved it. Thanks for, mate.
- [65:41]
Jake
Thank you, mate. Gary. Lana, you know what struck me most? That this was a bloke who won the World Cup Golden Boot. He played for Barcelona. He played with Diego Maradona. He presented Match of the day for 30 years. And it was the fact that he spent most of it thinking he was the luckiest person in the room. That humility isn't false modesty. I think it's a thing that kept him hungry. He was never comfortable, never satisfied, and always pushing to do a little bit more. And off the pitch. Two marriages, which he calls successful. Four sons, which he's proud of, and a set of values that are centered around kindness and empathy that he's refused to compromise, even when the pressure to do so must have been enormous for him. His golden rule, give yourself the best chance to succeed, work as hard as you can and aim high.
- [66:33]
Gary Lineker
Eye.
- [66:33]
Jake
What's not to love about that? If you've enjoyed this one, please consider sharing it. There may be somebody in your life who needs to hear it. Until next time. Thanks for joining us here in the high performance community.
- [67:10]
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