How To Know When To Walk Away

Summary

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The High Performance Podcast

Episode: How To Know When To Walk Away

Hosts: Jake Humphrey and Damian Hughes
Date: July 8, 2026

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Overview

This episode centers on the challenging but often necessary act of “walking away.” Jake Humphrey and Damian Hughes discuss how knowing when to leave—be it a job, a relationship, a dream, or even a version of oneself—is a high-performance decision in its own right. They revisit revealing moments from previous guests—including Joe Hart, Phil Jones, Mikel Antonio, Eddie Howe, and Stuart Broad—exploring personal stories of endings, transitions, and how self-knowledge and values guide these pivotal choices.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rethinking Resilience: The Power of Quitting

• Never Quit culture is questioned; sometimes, the healthiest, bravest choice is to leave.

  “I think this idea of never quit, it's actually pretty unhealthy because sometimes quitting, sometimes walking away is the best thing for us, even if it's a hard thing to do at the time.”
  – Jake Humphrey [02:38]

• True resilience isn’t always about “staying in the game”—it’s about recognizing when growth has stopped.

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2. The Moment of Realization: Stories from High Performers

Joe Hart: Facing Rejection with Perspective

• Pep Guardiola’s decision to drop Hart was a vision mismatch, not a personal failing.
• Hart emphasizes detachment:

  “It was a great man who had a vision that I didn't fit into. It wasn't painful. It was frustrating... It wasn't a personal attack on me.”
  – Joe Hart [06:28]

• Damian notes the importance of separating one’s identity from their professional position to avoid bitterness and cynicism.

Phil Jones: Relief in Release

• After a career of criticism, Jones’ final training session brings a sense of closure, not defeat.

  “I remember I did this turn or sprint, and I just felt it… and my words were, this is my last training session… it was a relief off my shoulders.”
  – Phil Jones [10:28]

• The emotional impact is underscored by his tears and family’s response at home.
• Self-awareness is highlighted as Jones accepts and articulates his own limitations and needs.

Michail Antonio: Pursuing Joy over Prestige

• Turned down offers from top Premier League clubs to avoid playing out of position.

  “I had links from top six clubs to play right back... I believed I was good enough to be [an] attacking player... I feel you need to enjoy what you’re doing instead of just chasing money.”
  – Michail Antonio [21:50]

• He puts personal enjoyment and growth before financial gain and external validation.

Eddie Howe: Pausing to Reset

• Howe’s year off after Bournemouth was crucial for self-reflection and avoiding burnout.

  “I knew I needed it. The biggest mistake I could have made…was going straight back into another job.”
  – Eddie Howe [17:43]

• Damian emphasizes that reflection and wisdom come not with age but with pauses to process experience. Even a few minutes in nature can provide clarity.

Stuart Broad: Leaving at the Top

• Broad’s decision to retire reflects sticking to principles, not just convenience.

  “I knew I wanted my last ball to be at the pinnacle... I stuck to my principles of knowing I wanted to finish at the top.”
  – Stuart Broad [23:03]

• Support from loved ones (his wife advising “trust your gut”) is crucial. The clip underlines the necessity of self-knowledge when making critical decisions.

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3. Identity Beyond Roles: Detachment and Growth

• Damian’s lost phone story is an analogy: we (over)value objects and identities—letting go is hard, but healthy.
• Gordon Ramsay’s advice (quoted by Jake):

  “Take it professionally, not personally.”
  – [09:20]

• Self-knowledge and value alignment are recurring themes. High performers are constantly checking, “Am I in the right place to thrive, today?” (Damian) [12:26]

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4. The Role of Support Systems

• The impact of criticism and the need for outside support (e.g., Jake’s mum and his children noticing negative headlines).
• Walking away often affects more than just the person at the center; families and loved ones are involved.

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5. Practical Reflections & Research

• Reflection can be as brief as a mindful moment outdoors, and is essential for growth (referencing Japanese “forest bathing” and King’s College London research).
• Wisdom comes from reflection, not age or experience alone.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “The people who tend to do well when they're walking away... don't focus on what they're walking away from. They're more focused on what they're moving towards.”
  – Damian Hughes [04:39]
• “Trust your gut. We'll support you forever.”
  – Molly Broad (via Stuart Broad) [23:37]
• “Sometimes you might outgrow a room, sometimes a room might just move on in a different direction from you.”
  – Damian Hughes [12:26]
• “Take the characteristics, the values, the skills that we have and uncouple it from the identity that we might have allowed to grow around us in terms of what we do.”
  – Damian Hughes [24:20]

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Important Timestamps

• 01:38 – Opening: Introduction of the “walking away” question
• 06:28 – Joe Hart reflects on being dropped by Guardiola
• 10:28 – Phil Jones describes his last training session and relief
• 13:48 – Phil Jones on retirement and support from his wife
• 14:59 – Jake’s mum’s voice note about online criticism
• 17:21 – Eddie Howe on taking a year’s break for reflection
• 21:50 – Mikel Antonio on prioritizing joy over “top club” status
• 23:03 – Stuart Broad on retiring at his peak

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Walking away is a personal, sometimes courageous, choice—not merely resignation or failure.
• The most successful transitions focus on moving toward a new, value-aligned goal rather than escaping the old.
• Knowing yourself—your values, your “why,” your limits—is fundamental.
• Taking time to reflect (even briefly) is key for clarity and healthy transitions.
• Support from those around you is vital, and the impacts of change ripple far beyond just one person.

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Closing Thoughts

Jake and Damian conclude by encouraging listeners to trust their own signals—and to lean on their community when wrestling with big decisions. High performance, they argue, isn’t just about enduring but about growing, adapting, and, sometimes, bravely moving on.

“It’s the people who walk away well, and not the ones who leave because they've got no choice... They're the ones who leave because they're clear about what they're walking towards.”
– Damien Hughes [26:14]

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For topic suggestions or personal stories to be featured, the hosts invite audience interaction, aiming to make High Performance a responsive, listener-driven community.

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Transcript

[Jake Humphrey]

Before we get into today's episode, a massive thank you to Apple Podcasts for including High performance in their 2026 creators we love campaign. If you've just found the show, welcome. Nice to have you with us. Head to Apple Podcasts to see mine and Damien's favorite episodes from the last six years of High Performance.

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[Jake Humphrey]

Hi there. Welcome along to another episode of High Performance with myself and Damien Hughes. So today we are answering a question. How do you know when it's time to walk away? Because I think this is a moment in life that nobody prepares you for, right? And every single one of you listening to this has either done it or is going to have to do it. And sometimes it's forced upon you through ill health. Sometimes it's a retirement. Sometimes you no longer feel like you're in the right place to move forwards. And that moment when you have to stop, leave that job, end that chapter. Leave a relationship, a dream, or maybe probably the most painful, to leave a version of yourself that you've been fighting so hard to keep alive. We know how hard it is because we've spoken to so many people on this podcast about it, and we're about to reveal some of those guests to you because we think the high performance is all about resilience, and we talk about it often on this show. But it's not just about staying in the game. Sometimes what we've learned is that the bravest, strongest, most, I guess, high performance decisions you will ever make is to say, right, I'm no longer growing here. And I think, Damien, this idea of never quit, it's actually pretty unhealthy because sometimes quitting, sometimes walking away is the best thing for us, even if it's a hard thing to do at the time. But I also know it's something we haven't spoken about that much on the show and something that our audience definitely are wrestling with.

[Damien Hughes]

Yeah, definitely. It really dawned on me how much we get conditioned to believe that this idea of being relentless and constantly going again and never being complacent is sort of woven into our society. And especially, like when we think about the high performers. And the moment it sort of hit me was when we sat down with Steve McLaren. I sort of grew up as a Manchester United fan and remember that treble winning year in 1999 and McLaren coming in in the February. And I'd never thought about, until he described it, the intensity of what he'd done. He'd left his family over in Derby, moved to Manchester. He said he was up till 2 or 3 o' clock in the morning working on sort of training drills and routines because he knew how intense the scrutiny was of the likes of Roy Keane and the other players in the dressing room. And then they won the treble. And he says he was absolutely spent. And that day that he sort of went to the car after the parade and Alex Ferguson said, where are you going? I need you back in here tomorrow morning. And then he took the cardboard box round and made them, sort of threw all the medals into it. And I remember there was almost like two parts of me, Jake. Like, there was part of me like, going, that's amazing. What a fantastic example. But there was another part going, that's horrendous. Like, what about just giving the guy a break and letting him go for a rest and allowing him to walk away and think about what he'd achieved and sort of spend some time doing that? And I think it makes you realize that sometimes we do ourselves a disservice by thinking that our high performers are foot to the pedal, non stop. You know, they never quit. And it's actually really, really unhealthy. I mean, there's research on this that says that the people who tend to do well when they're walking away from something always have one thing in common. They don't focus on what they're walking away from. They're more focused on what they're moving towards. And I think once you understand that you're making a transition to something different, whether it's a new identity, a new job, a new location, you're more likely to be able to cope well than constantly sort of leaving a part of you behind in what you used to do or what you used to define yourself by.

[Jake Humphrey]

So.

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[Jake Humphrey]

Well, we're going to hear from Phil Jones in a moment on the exact moment he knew it was over at Man United. Joe Hart and what it felt like when Pep Guardiola told him he didn't fit in. Football manager Sean Dyche, on being sacked after nine and a half years and also the month after that that very few people talk about. And Michel Antonio as well, on turning down a top six club because he knew it was the wrong move. Right, let's go for it then. Damien, where shall we begin this magical mystery tour of former High Performance guests?

[Damien Hughes]

Why don't we jump in with Joe Hart? I thought the conversation that Joe shared with us was. Was really good. We were talking to somebody recently, weren't we? We had a guest in the studio who loved that moment when he confronted you for making some crack on the television about his teammate, Martin de Michaelis. And it led us to reflect on it. But I think the bit when Joe was speaking about Pep Guardiolas first conversation with him, it's a good place to begin. Not least because Pep Guardiola, when he left Manchester City, said it was the one regret he had, that he'd been a little bit too hasty. Why don't we listen to Joe explain?

[Joe Hart]

Wasn't painful. It was frustrating. It wasn't painful. It was a. It was a great man who had a vision that I didn't fit into. It was frustrating. I didn't mind, you know, if it was to go to a panel and coaches were sat there and my name was brought up and he said, no, for me, that's not. Which is what he said. He's a good goalkeeper, but for me, the system doesn't work. Which is fine for his. But then he took charge of the club that I was a part of and that I loved. Yeah, but what can you do? What can you do? I'd love to. I'd love to have stayed and tried to prove otherwise. Not even prove, you know, he was. It would have been. Look, I can. I can try and help you to come to the level that I need you to, but I can't start you. But I'm living in that world where I want to play for England. I want to play at the highest possible level. I want to.

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[Joe Hart]

And you can't play for England if you're being trialed at a football club. Well, I couldn't at the time. So, yeah, it was just an unfortunate circumstance. But I don't think. It wasn't a personal attack on me. It was a man who had a vision and I didn't fit into it.

[Damien Hughes]

It's a bit of a random segue on this from what Joe just shared, but I lost my phone recently. I was traveling through Belfast Airport, and when I got through baggage control, I realized I'd lost my phone in the taxi that I'd come from. Now, by the way, there's a glitch in the Uber system that you cannot phone the Uber driver from a number that you haven't booked the car from. And yet the number I'd bought the car from was in the back of the car. So the whole thing was starting to get incredibly stressful. But it wasn't the fact that I'd lost what you'd describe, if you look at it objectively, as a piece of glass and metal. It was everything that was in it. It was my contacts, it was my phone and the memories and my diary. All of that seemed to disappear with it. And it then made me realize how identity can be very much the same as that it's the thing that you value. It's almost become to define who you really are. And I think what was really interesting with Joe there was that he was able to uncouple Pep Guardiola's decision from who he was. It wasn't a personal attack. It wasn't attack saying Joe Hart wasn't good enough. He just felt that Joe Hart, the goalkeeper, wasn't good enough. And I think there's something really healthy there about having that sense of detachment to be able to observe other people's decisions and be able to walk away without bitterness, without rancor, or without becoming quite cynical. I think that's the real incredible aspect of our conversation with Joe that we can all take away.

[Jake Humphrey]

Look, it reminds me of when we got to the end of our conversation with Gordon Ramsay, and actually from all the clips of Gordon's that have been replayed by people over and over again. I haven't seen this one used very often, but do you remember when he said. I said, what's your sort of one golden rule for success in life? And he said, no, I said, what's the best advice you've ever been given? And he said, take it professionally, not personally. And I think that is a very. I think that's a very important point for us to understand here when it comes to this idea of walking away is that sometimes it is on our terms, but this was absolutely not on Joe Hart's terms. And then it becomes about trying to work out how do you look after yourself in that situation. A totally opposite example of someone walking away was Phil Jones. And actually, I find this clip from Phil Jones, who was playing at Manchester United at the time, is really quite moving. And you know how we've previously spoken about Sonder and not seeing people in 3D, Damien, not understanding their true story and their sort of hopes and fears. And, you know, Phil Jones was one of those people that it became, like, cool to be critical of him. You remember?

[Damien Hughes]

Yeah.

[Jake Humphrey]

Which I think is such a shame because he's such a nice guy, but no one or everyone had kind of forgotten to look at the man behind the footballer. And it just became, let's just be critical of Phil Jones. So when he spoke to us about the time that he took his very last training session or competed in his very last training session, I think. I think this is interesting.

[Phil Jones]

I remember I did this turn or sprint, and I just felt it, and I was like, oh, my God. Like, I can't. I can't carry on.

[Stuart Broad]

I can't carry on.

[Phil Jones]

And I remember, drink spray. I came home to the physio, and my words were, this is my last training session. He was like, yeah, yeah, okay, whatever. And to this day, it was my last training session done.

[Damien Hughes]

How did that feel?

[Phil Jones]

Saying that I was ready for it. I was ready for it. Like, I was. It was. It was a relief, a relief off my shoulders that I didn't have to put myself through this pain. Money. Not physically, not mentally, but pain in my knee. I didn't have to put myself through that anymore. And it was a relief off my shoulders, a weight off my shoulders, knowing that I'd committed to that answer.

[Jake Humphrey]

The most moving part about that, actually, Damian, is the fact that Phil talks about relief at the end of it. And I think that's a really important point that I think I want to just dwell on just for a few moments, because there will 100% be people listening to this conversation, knowing that there's something in their life that is no longer serving them, knowing that they're no longer in the right place, but it's that fear of the next step and how they're going to feel afterwards. I think it's very hard to feel relief if you're Joe Hart and you've been pushed out by a manager. But if you're making these decisions on your own terms, then I think relief is probably quite a common feeling afterwards. So I think instead of us dwelling on how do you walk away? I think we should be asking the question, why do we walk away? And if again, it comes back, like so much of what we talk about on the show, comes back to the conversation we had years ago with Simon Sinek, where he guided us both through finding our why. If you go to the effort of finding out your why, if you go to more effort to understand yourself, what drives you, what thrills you, who you are, how would you describe yourself? If you come to that answer and where you are in life is not where that answer sits, then the natural result of that is we'll walk away then, isn't it?

[Damien Hughes]

Yeah, absolutely. I think that value alignment of recognizing that sometimes you might outgrow a room, sometimes a room might just move on in a different direction from you. But I think this is one of the things that I think we can all learn from our high performance guests is this constant self orientation, knowing where they are and who they are. So they're always responding with that clarity of recognizing that I've outstayed my welcome here, maybe this doesn't work for me any longer. And I think that was what was really interesting with Phil, that like you say, he became meme tastic of people that love the idea of making fun of him. And yet he's a guy that is incredibly self aware. He knew exactly what his limitations were and what his strengths were. And he wasn't kidding himself. When people were talking about him never playing for United and stealing a living, he knew himself just what he was going through and how painful the experience was. I think just that self awareness, we can all get a little bit better at that to make sure that we're constantly asking ourselves, am I in the right place to allow me to thrive? The me today, not the me that I was 10 years ago, me today, can I thrive in this environment?

[Jake Humphrey]

And before we finish talking about Phil, can we just play that clip where like he talks about going home and his wife's waiting for him. Oh, yeah, have a listen.

[Phil Jones]

I always feel like when you say you retired, it's like, all right, that's it. Finish, done. See you later. Thanks for coming where it's not like that for me. I've still got so much to give. But that was. That was. It was a relief, honestly, it was a relief. And I got in the car and I remember being in tears on the car on the way back. I walked into the door and my wife was like. Like, she just knew.

[Jake Humphrey]

I mean, that is an emotional. An emotional landing. And I actually think there would have been maybe relief from his wife as well, in a very different way. I remember when I stopped doing the football presenting and lent much harder into high performance, I felt a sense of relief as well. I've played you before. The clip, the voice note from my mum of I, Damien.

[Stuart Broad]

Yeah.

[Jake Humphrey]

You heard it when we did our tour. Do you remember? Shall I play it now?

[Damien Hughes]

Yeah, go on.

[Jake Humphrey]

So back when I was hosting Champions League and Premier League football, like, if you're going to do that job, you're going to get criticized. Right? It just is the way it is. Sadly, it shouldn't be the way it is and it feels wrong to even say it's the way it is, but it kind of is, if that makes any sense at all. This is a voice note I got from my mum one day after I'd done a Champions League quarter final or semi final, I think.

[Jake's Mum]

Hi, sweetie, it's Mum here. I've just been browsing Twitter, see what's going on in the world or in your world. You've got loads of horrible messages. Are you okay? Is it, you know, is there anything we can do or say? Speak soon. Bye.

[Jake Humphrey]

Oh, Mom.

[Damien Hughes]

You know, the bit that gets me for that, when you first played it me a few years ago, is like, your mum desperately trying to think, what can I do to help? Yeah. I mean, like, how. How helpless her and she must have felt at that moment.

[Jake's Mum]

Yeah.

[Damien Hughes]

It's heartbreaking. And I think, again, when you understand that this isn't like, when. Like, this isn't just on you, is it? It's not just you receiving that horrible messages. It's like, it's Harriet, it's your mum and dad. It's everyone around you that suffers as well.

[Jake Humphrey]

I think, like, Flo and Seb would come home sometimes because they type. It was a game. It became a game when they were about 7 or 8 years old to type my name into Google at school with their mates.

[Damien Hughes]

Oh, right.

[Jake Humphrey]

And then some of these, like, shitty headlines from Some Nomarch journalist having a pop at me for doing, trying to do my job well. Like, they'd then come home and report to me what was written and like, did you know, this was said? And I would be like, no, I'm sure it wasn't horrible. But you know what really helped when I stopped doing that job was that I had something to come to which was high performance. And do you remember I like leaned in and we suddenly went from like one episode to three episodes a week and started like finding other shows and creating other podcasts and all the other things that's happened in the last three or four years. Like, I don't think that the growth of high performance has nothing to do with me leaving BT Sport. I think the two are absolutely linked and I think if I'd have stayed doing my job as a football presenter, this podcast would be 50% what it is, because I wouldn't have had the time or the commitment for it. But also, like, it's 100% the right thing. So sometimes I think we, you know, we need to understand that what feels like a really scary moment, actually, we don't know whether it's a good or bad moment until two or three years down the line, but sometimes you walk away and don't have somewhere to go. And we spoke with Eddie Howe about this and we can hear him talk about it now because I think actually the best thing for Eddie, interestingly, was having nowhere to go, having to press pause on his life. Let's hear from him and then we'll talk about it.

[Eddie Howe]

I'm going to have a year and I told everyone that needed to know it was going to be a year and I wasn't going to break that for anything.

[Jake Humphrey]

Was it important to tell people so they could hold you?

[Eddie Howe]

Well, it was. If you've got an agent going around going, go for this interview, go for that interview. And I'm saying no, he needed to know now. He was still trying, but of course

[Jake Humphrey]

he wants to get paid, right?

[Jake's Mum]

Of course.

[Eddie Howe]

But I was adamant and I think I just, I knew I needed it. But the biggest mistake I could have made, I believe, is going straight back into another job. That would have been disaster, not just for me, but for the club, because I wasn't. I knew I had to leave at the end of that season because I think it was two week break because of COVID So two weeks, the lads were back in for pre season training and I wasn't there mentally. I would not have been the manager that Bournemouth needed. Me to be. But if that was the case for Bournemouth, that was the case for anyone else. So I just needed to get away.

[Jake Humphrey]

I'd love to explore this with you, Damien. The importance of just pressing pause, of having nothing to fill your day, of understanding who you are, what you're about and where you want to go next. And I think it would have been a bad thing for Eddie, as he openly admitted in that conversation, if he'd just gone straight to another job.

[Damien Hughes]

Yeah, well, again, if you, if we go back and remind ourselves of what Eddie said, that he made a commitment to his wife, that he was going to take 12 months off because he'd done 12 years at Bournemouth and that brief interlude at Burnley where he said he'd not stopped, it was full on 24, 7, 365 days a year and he had no time to reflect, he had no time to collate his training notes, what he'd learned, what he'd learned worked and what hadn't. And I think sometimes we can sort of keep filling ourselves up with knowledge and courses and information and experiences, but unless we ever allow ourselves time to let it percolate and just store it away and put, Take the lessons, discard the stuff that isn't relevant, that we keep repeating the same thing so we're not like. I sometimes hear this when people go, oh, you know, with age comes wisdom. And I go, no, it doesn't, because I know lots of stupid old people and I know lots of really smart young people. It's not age that gives you wisdom, it's your willingness to take time, to stop and think and reflect and learn from it is the key. And I think too often when we get caught up in this, in this trap of busyness, we don't do what Eddie did there. And I think it's no coincidence that he went into Newcastle and rejuvenated them when he came back, you know, he was, he kept the principles that made him successful at Bournemouth, but added elements to it. When we've spoken to Kieran Trippier, Dan Byrne, Callum Wilson, people that have served with him, he sounds a far better coach now than he did when he was at Bournemouth. And that's because of that 12 month period that he gave himself to stop. Now there's research out there, Jake, that says, sorry, now there's research out there, Jay, that if people are listening, it's going, oh, I'd love to take 12 months off. You don't need 12 months. Sometimes it can be as much as five minutes. I was recently reading I was recently doing some research based on our interview with Ben Fogle, where Ben was talking about forest bathing. You know that he goes out for a run for an hour regularly, just for his own mind, but then he'll say he'll walk in nature. And it's a Japanese term, forest bathing, where you just sit in nature with no distractions. And there was research from King's College in London that said you don't even need to walk in a forest to do it. Sometimes just looking up at the sky, noticing the trees around you, listening to birdsong, has a huge impact on your health, your wellbeing and your clarity of thinking. So, eddie, how took 12 months? Great. It'd be nice if we could all do that, but we can all take two minutes just to get ourselves outside, look up at the sky, look up at the trees and appreciate nature, to be able to reset and bring ourselves greater clarity.

[Jake Humphrey]

I think where we've stumbled to in the last few minutes is that walking away is kind of the. Is the outcome, but knowing yourself is the thing that allows you to get to the outcome, whether you stay or whether you go. I want to play a couple clips from two people who really knew who they were and what they wanted to be. First of all, here's Mikel Antonio, the former West Ham striker, talking about when some of the biggest clubs in the country were keen on signing him. Have a listen.

[Michail Antonio]

I had links from top six clubs to play right back. I didn't want to play right back, so I refused to do that. I wanted to be a winger.

[Jake Humphrey]

Then I started the season just buying a top six club. Like, are we talking the big names?

[Michail Antonio]

I'm talking top six. Definitely top six. And. But it was right back and I believed I was good enough to be attacking player in the Premier League. I didn't want to play right back. Maybe I might have been financially better, but I wouldn't have been enjoying my football. And I think in life, I feel you need to enjoy what you're doing instead of just chasing the money.

[Jake Humphrey]

So I like that Damien, because he's. He's kind of putting joy above the need for money.

[Eddie Howe]

Yep.

[Jake Humphrey]

And very different, but kind of similar. I now want to play a clip from Stuart Broad because I think you can't do this unless you know who you really are, because there's always a reason to stay. And the reason that Stuart Broad had to stay was that he was still a brilliant cricketer, but he made the decision to walk away, to go home to FaceTime Molly, to tell her what he'd done. And I thought her advice was fantastic. Let's have a listen.

[Stuart Broad]

I knew I had a goal to finish playing for England. I knew I wanted my last ball to be at the pinnacle. England vs Australia at the Oval. Gorgeous place to play. And I think that's what makes me most proud, is that I stuck to my principles of knowing that I wanted to finish at the top. And, you know, I went through a bit of an emotional roller coaster in the final 10 days of my career. I started thinking about it a bit at Old Trafford, and then the oval just came so quickly. You know, when you've got a big decision hanging over you, time seems to go, like, disappear on you a bit, doesn't it? I had to. It was getting to that stage of the game is approaching the end. You know, I need to. I need to. To know what I'm thinking. And I FaceTime Molly on the Friday night, still humming and ahhing a little bit. And she said, trust your gut, Trust your gut. You know, we'll support you forever.

[Jake Humphrey]

I love that man, like the. The way that his wife, I guess they were married, then said to him, trust your gut. Trust your gut will support you forever. But then obviously, he. He had no gut feeling. He said, so it makes it so difficult. It's a great reminder that if you don't know yourself, if you can't look inside and go, right, what do I want? What are my values in any given situation? It makes every decision in life really blooming difficult.

[Damien Hughes]

Yeah. So if you listen to this and you're thinking, I've got a decision I need to make sometime soon, my advice would be, first of all, just look at what you've done and look at the characteristics you've brought to it that are unique to you. It might be like if you go back to your example of walking away from presenting live football and you go, what was unique to you is creativity, the ability to drive connections, a curiosity and empathy that you didn't lose them. The day that you stepped away from presenting live football, you just decided to move to a different environment and use all those same characteristics to do something different. And I think any of us can learn from your example on that, Jake, and take the characteristics, the values, the skills that we have and uncouple it from the identity that we might have allowed to grow around us in terms of what we do. And then we can give ourselves the freedom to take those skills and characteristics and values into any environment that we want. So, as I said to you earlier, psychologists talk about entry points and exit points, that we have to understand that to leave somewhere to go for an exit point, we need another entry point to go into and know the environment that we're going to go and offer some value to. We can all do that on a regular basis.

[Jake Humphrey]

Nice. If you scroll to where it says wrap and goodbye, Will, we'll do this together. You can just read this here verbatim, Damien. So there we go. Look, the question at the start, how do you know when it's time to go? Phil Jones knew when he couldn't pass a ball. Joe Hart knew when the conversation didn't happen. Michelantonio knew when the offers felt wrong. And what they all have in common is that they trusted that signal. And I really hope that this conversation has given you a little bit of language, a little bit of maybe permission for that. When that signal shows up in your life, you feel equipped to make that decision.

[Damien Hughes]

Brilliant point. I mean, the research and nearly 450 conversations now on High Performance keep pointing to the same thing over and over. It's the people who walk away. Well, and not the ones who leave because they've got no choice. They're the ones who leave because they're clear about what they're walking towards. And having that sense of clarity is available to every one of us that's listening right now. The thing is, you've just got to be honest enough to ask for it.

[Jake Humphrey]

So. Right. And if you've got a topic or a thought or a fear or something on your mind that you want us to talk about on one of these Wednesday conversations, please just reach out to us. Like, we really do want High Performance to become more of a community going forward. We want this show to be for you, about you solving your problems, putting you at the heart of what we're doing. So please just ping us a message. What subjects do you want us to discuss? You can DM us, you can leave a message on Apple, on Spotify, on YouTube, wherever. You're enjoying these conversations and if you can just hit subscribe, it changes the world for us. It means we can keep growing and we can bring more amazing people to a conversation about high performance. Thanks a lot, Damien.

[Damien Hughes]

Thanks, mate. I love these conversations like you do, and I love it when people sort of reach out and tell us the things they want to wrestle with. So just to echo that, please send them in and we'll explore it for our. For our benefit as well as for yours.

[Jake Humphrey]

Absolutely right. Continue to be kind to yourself, remain curious, empathetic and understanding. And we'll see you next time for another conversation here on High Performance.

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