Inside the Mind of Gazza: Paul Gascoigne on Trauma, Fame & the Man Nobody Knows (E394)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Inside the Mind of Gazza – Paul Gascoigne on Trauma, Fame & the Man Nobody Knows

The High Performance Podcast
Episode Date: February 18, 2026
Featured Guest: Paul Gascoigne ("Gazza")
Hosts: Jake Humphrey & Damian Hughes

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Episode Overview

This episode of The High Performance Podcast takes a deep and humanizing look at the legendary footballer Paul Gascoigne—exploring the man behind the myth. With compassion and curiosity, Jake Humphrey and Damian Hughes engage Gazza in a raw and revealing conversation about fame, trauma, mental health, addiction, and the joys and struggles of a uniquely public life. The aim is not to rehash scandals but to understand both the highs and the lows of a career that captured, and defined, the imagination of a nation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Beginnings, Early Drive & Family (04:47–06:36)

• Talent from a Young Age: Gascoigne recounts knowing he was good at football by age 7, winning a major penalty competition at 12, and having unwavering confidence he'd "be that one in a million."
  • "When I'm 16, you're not going to have to work ever again... I'm going to be one of the best players in the world." (05:31, Gascoigne)
• Family Dynamics: His parents worked hard, but their own issues (including arguments at the signing of his Newcastle contract) made his rise bittersweet.
• Humility & Hard Work: Despite his joker reputation, Gascoigne speaks about 11 p.m. runs in bin bags to shed weight, taking just £25 a week as a teenager, and a diet of "Coca-Cola, fish and chips and Minstrels."
  • "At night, I'd just put bin bags on and go run at 11 o’clock." (12:10, Gascoigne)

2. The Impact of Childhood Trauma (13:24–16:26)

• Stephen’s Death: A defining—and haunting—moment: as a child he witnessed the tragic death of his friend Stephen, triggering years of tics and compulsions.
  • "I was only about 10... and he had his head on my lap and his lips moved and I thought he’s going to be all right. But that was his last movements." (14:04, Gascoigne)
• Grief and Therapy: Eventually, talking as if Stephen were present helped resolve his tics.
  • "I just broke down crying... and then I got through it." (15:07, Gascoigne)
• Link to OCD/Addiction: Recognizes how trauma instilled vulnerabilities later connected to OCD and addiction.

3. Football: Joy, Instinct, and Escapism (06:36–13:22)

• Unconscious Genius: Gazza describes his play as almost intuitive—thinking three seconds ahead, winding up rivals with constant chatter.
  • "I always thought like I knew three seconds before the ball arrived what exactly... where the players were." (06:50, Gascoigne)
• Need for Strong Male Mentors: Thrived under managers like Bobby Robson and Terry Venables, needing strong, guiding figures to "just make me happy and go do the business."
  • "Those strong male figures seem to give you a platform to perform." (23:59, Co-host)
• Defiance: Even as his prankster image grew, he insisted on being more—playing with a smile but outworking his detractors.

4. Addiction, Mental Health and the Double-Edged Sword of Fame (03:14–04:33, 23:44–26:37, 35:11–38:11)

• Alcohol Struggles: He differentiates between drinking to celebrate and self-medicating on "bad days," sometimes relapsing.
  • "If I want to make it a bad day, I’ll go in the pub..." (03:16, Gascoigne)
• OCD: Explains his rituals—touching things multiple times, seeking perfection, and the exhausting toll of compulsions.
  • "I had treatment for it—had to stand on every crack, switch lights on and off 13 times..." (25:49, Gascoigne)
• Fame’s Consequences: Being Britain’s most famous man was both thrilling and isolating, unable to escape the public eye or tabloid narratives.
  • "It’s fantastic becoming famous. But once you’re famous, you cannot go anywhere else; the story is they whack you down." (38:29, Gascoigne)

5. Personal Regret, Relationships, and Legacy (24:35–27:11, 37:11–38:11)

• Recklessness: Admits to impulsive acts in life and relationships, some "heavily regretted," often after drinking.
  • "A lot of things just off the cuff. Some I regret... after a couple of drinks, I’ll go and do it." (24:44, Gascoigne)
• Relationships: Strained family bonds—stories of fear and paranoia during his phone hacking saga, which led to suspicion and temporary estrangement from his own parents.
• Kindness & Generosity: Quietly donated to numerous charities, describing himself as "fun, loving, caring, fearless... but also emotional, soft."
  • "I don’t think I’ll ever grow up, which I don’t mind. I’m proud of what I’ve given a lot of people." (37:11, Gascoigne)
• Humor as Armor: His comic persona "Gazza" emerges as a coping strategy, the cheerful mask for personal pain.

6. Famous Moments, Regrets, and Joys (27:46–34:37)

• Iconic Goals & Missed Chances: Discusses the legendary 'dentist chair' celebration, his infamous near-miss against Germany, and the emotional highs/lows of international football.
  • "Would have been God Almighty, what a story that would have been [had I scored]." (33:25, Gascoigne)
• An Audience with the Pope: Recalls a surreal Vatican meeting.
  • "I picked up the phone, I went, 'Hi Pope, what do you want?'" (33:37, Gascoigne)
• Personal Impact: Fan encounters, being called a "national treasure," and the emotional weight of those attachments.

7. Public vs Private Self – 'Paul Gascoigne' vs 'Gazza' (34:50–35:11)

• Dual Sides: Differentiates his public (Gazza, the humorist) and private (Paul, the serious man) personas.
  • "Serious stuff, Paul Gascoigne. If I get well over there, Gazza’s the funny side." (34:55, Gascoigne)
• Longing for Connection: Misses playing, misses entertaining, sometimes cries on stage, and treasures the joy he brought to others.

8. Reflections, Vulnerability and Final Thoughts (41:03–45:42)

• Hosts Reflect: Both Jake and Damian unpack the interview, commenting on Gascoigne’s vulnerability, resilience, and trust issues after many betrayals.
  • "He uses that classic humor deflection if anyone’s getting close... but we got let in to see Paul rather than Gazza." (41:27, Co-host)
• Performance in Spite of Distractions: Mention of Tim Galway’s "performance = potential minus distractions," and appreciation for Gazza’s achievements against significant odds.
• Self-Acceptance: The co-hosts’ message to Gazza—“You are enough,” a reminder that he doesn’t need to perform or please everyone.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "People know Paul Gascoigne, but Gazza, no one knows the things I've put myself through." (00:02, Paul Gascoigne)
• On Trauma:
  "12 years of age, picking a dead body out the coffin... then I stayed in that room for a few days." (00:12, Gascoigne)
• On Determination:
  "I went to school... saying, 'I'm going to be a professional footballer.' [Teacher said] 'One in a million makes it,' I went, 'I’m going to be that one.'" (05:31, Gascoigne)
• On Performance:
  "I knew three seconds before the ball arrived... then I’d talk them to bits." (06:50, Gascoigne)
• On Addiction:
  "I'm better without it. Last year wasn’t brilliant, off and on. But I went to AA the other night as well..." (04:08, Gascoigne)
• On OCD:
  "Had to stand on every crack. Go around the hotel switching lights off and on 13 times..." (25:49, Gascoigne)
• On Legacy:
  "Just remember where you come from... never know, one day you might need these fans." (26:43, Gascoigne)
• On Fame:
  "It’s fantastic becoming famous. But once you’re famous... the stories whack you down." (38:29, Gascoigne)
• On Resilience:
  "The time I’ll give in is when I’m in a wooden box. Until then I'll just keep fighting on." (38:11, Gascoigne)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:02 – Paul’s opening statement on being misunderstood
• 04:47 – Discovering his talent, childhood ambitions
• 13:24 – Discussing the traumatic death of a childhood friend
• 16:26 – Moving forward from trauma, starting professional career
• 23:59 – Value of strong mentors, mental health struggles
• 25:49 – Obsessive–compulsive disorder, addiction link
• 27:46 – Legacy, giving, fan stories
• 33:37 – Audience with the Pope
• 38:11 – Fame and its difficulties
• 41:03–45:42 – Host reflections, honest assessment of Gascoigne’s vulnerabilities and strengths

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Final Reflections

The podcast reveals Paul Gascoigne as a complicated but deeply human figure—someone still processing early trauma, who reached the athletic heights in spite of enormous personal challenges. His humor is both a gift and a shield, and his generosity is clear. The hosts succeed in giving listeners a rare glimpse of "Paul," not just "Gazza"—a proud, sensitive, sometimes troubled, yet resilient man determined to keep going and to be seen for his full self.

A tribute as much to human endurance as sporting excellence, this episode leaves listeners with empathy for the man behind the myth and admiration for his ongoing fight to live as his whole, complicated self.

Transcript

[Paul Gascoigne]

People know Paul Gascoigne, but Gaza, no one knows the things I've put myself through. I'm looking to still be sitting here, I think, 30 days in rehab and just sat in the room, paranoid, a bit afraid to do anything. 12 years of age, picking a dead body out the coffin and kissing, cuddling them inside and then putting them back down. Then I stayed in that room for a few days. So I'm going to be a professional footballer. He went, do you know what in a million makes it? I went, now I'm gonna be that one.

[Jake]

Hi there. Welcome along to High Performance, the show that delves into the minds of some of the most fascinating people on the planet. We spent a fascinating, surreal, incredible day actually down on the south coast of England. Poole in Dorset.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

Yeah. Well, even more. To get even more granular, Jake, we went to a residential street in Poole, Dorset, where we happened to stumble upon the company of one of the greatest footballers that England has ever produced.

[Jake]

Indeed, living in the spare bedroom of his agent on this street, the one and only Paul Gascoign.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

Gaza, I'm excited. Are you?

[Jake]

Feel a bit nervous, actually. I just feel like I want to do, like, his amazing life justice. I don't want us to do what a lot of other people have done, which is just to focus on the chaotic moments in his life or the points where he'll know he's let himself down.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

I agree with you, Jake. I think that too often we focus on the tragedy, don't we, rather than does it celebrate what he did achieve, you know, in spite of some of the challenges that he had? And I think to understand how he did become the most famous man in Britain, celebrated as an iconic footballer, I think that story needs telling.

[Jake]

How does he end up here? Very quiet residential street in Pool on the south coast of England. How has Gazza ended up living here? Do these people know that Paul Gascoigne is their neighbour?

[Narrator/Interviewer]

You know.

[Jake]

When you sit in our reflect on your career, there's obviously two ways you can look at it. You can either go, you know, there was some times where you fell off the rails a bit, you had your struggles, you had your sort of personal problems, or you can look at it and go, I played for England, played for the club I supported as a boy. Most expensive signing going off to Italy.

[Paul Gascoigne]

It was the most expensive going from Newcastle Tottenham, most expensive going for Tottenham to most expensive going from Latio to Rangers, most from Rangers to Bola. So everywhere I went, it was the most expensive, you know, so when you're.

[Jake]

Lying in bed at night, are you thinking, could have done a bit more? Or are you thinking, bloody hell, what a career I had. Like, look at the things I did. The things I did.

[Paul Gascoigne]

Yeah, exactly. I mean, I used to say, the guys, I used to. Wearing the guys up. Look at that. On the. On the pitch today, if you're tired, just give us a ball. I'll keep a hold of it for five minutes. I'll say, look, can someone do well today? Because I'm sick of getting man the match and having to go upstairs after the game and get pestered. So I used to wind them up like that. But, yeah, I think, you know, I never. I don't think I left, let any managers down or the players or the fans, you know, if anybody I let down was myself, like, you know. But, you know, the. The drink inside of it was more about when I finish playing, if I'm having a good day, you know, I really make the most of it. I really do. If I'm having a bad day, I just say, right, just get, you know, get through it. Tomorrow won't be as bad, hopefully, you.

[Jake]

Know, how often is it a good day? How often is it a bad day?

[Paul Gascoigne]

I want to make it a bad day. I'll go in the pub, you know, if I make it a good day, I'll get the fly rod out. Fly fishing. I'll do some other stuff, you know, tennis and all that. So when the weather's nice, it's. There's lots I can do, like, you.

[Jake]

Know, and we were just asking each other, like, do the locals know that Gaza's living on this street?

[Paul Gascoigne]

Oh, yeah. Straight away, when I first arrived Bournemouth, because only, you know, Bournemouth, like, it's not really. I wouldn't say such a football in town. So when I first arrived, I was getting stopped at weekends or a nightmare. If Bournemouth played home, like, it would play like Monday night, so the town would be full, like Man United fans and.

[Jake]

And is that hard for you? Because I imagine everyone wants to buy Gaza a drink, right?

[Paul Gascoigne]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jake]

How do you do?

[Paul Gascoigne]

Which is good.

[Jake]

Is it good?

[Paul Gascoigne]

Yeah, Saves me money. No, no, you can't. I've had that all. All my life, you know, it's not the drink as such, it's the consequences, you know, it's afterwards.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

It's like, what you mean by that.

[Paul Gascoigne]

You know, So I know if I'm in trouble and I look at me mobile and if I got like 30 messages and 30 missed calls, I know I'm in trouble. Think, oh, but I've been all right. Last year was. It wasn't brilliant. I was off and on all, you know, I did like a couple of months and then like a three, four days at Panda. I'm better without it. I went to mean the other night as well, so that was all right to. What does he mean? I went with a friend.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

How often do you go to them?

[Paul Gascoigne]

I used to go all the time. Like I haven't been for one for ages. I just thought maybe start going to a few like, you know, but they're all right, the homeless, you know, it's. You get to make every little buzz like, you know, let's go back then.

[Jake]

I don't know, 48, 50 years. You're like 6, 7, 8 years old. You're kicking a ball around up in Newcastle. I would love to know when you first realized you played football different.

[Paul Gascoigne]

Well, yeah, when I was seven. I knew then I was good. And then when I was 12, there was a. A penalty competition. I won that. Out of 360 odd kids. There was 14. Newcastle knocked on the door and because mom and dad had worked so much, worked so hard to make money for us, not. I was 14 and I don't know why, but I said, mom, dad, that's it. I said, when I'm 16, used to, I'm not going to have to work ever again. I look after you. I'm going to be one of the best players in the world. I don't know what they were thinking. But then I went to school. I was 14.

[Jake]

Hold on, you said that to them?

[Paul Gascoigne]

Yeah. When I'm 16, you're not going to have to work ever again in your life. So I went to school. I was 40. Do geography mean geography? God. I mean, I've got a pen. And I'm just saying, poor Gascoigne, poor Gascoigne, Poor Gas going, hey, what are you doing? So I'm saying, the autograph sir said, what for? I said, I'm going to be a professional footballer. He went, do you know what in a million makes it? I went, now I'm going to be that one. He went, yeah. And he kicked us out the class. I took me. So I took me autographs with us. And what was funny is like after The World Cup, 1990, you know, I did when I got back from Italy, I went straight to that school and I know what classroom we worked in. There was a little window in each window and I looked through it and I tapped on it and if I can remember me went, oh, no, So I just went. Went in the classroom, I went, Never say that any of these kids. Well, school erupted because I just got back from the World Cup. The school erupted, words got r. Everyone just ran out the classrooms, me and him. And then I. I left. Left the school. And the next day I went back again, caused more trouble, and eventually the head master. So I had to apologize. Castle, please stop coming in.

[Jake]

So how did you know that you were going to be the one in the million?

[Paul Gascoigne]

I don't know. I just was doing things. Some of the stuff I did, I didn't know I did it. And I'd have to say maybe watch a replay or something to you. How did I do that?

[Jake]

So you weren't consciously thinking what you were going to do with the football?

[Paul Gascoigne]

No, I was straight away. It's like when I speak to Ronnie Solomon at the snowball places when he's playing snow, he's actually thinking like six shots ahead of him. He's next. He's six shot, not the one there. And I was the same when I played football. I always thought, like, I thought, like I knew three seconds before the ball arrived what exactly. Where the players were, you know, Then I do the other side where I just hit, where I was mounting, it was. I talk, talk them to bits. Roy Keane was the best. When they said he was going to be the new kid on his block. On the block. And I said, new kid? And I just taught him all through the game. And even Gazards, please shut up. Like, I'd say, I'm married. I'm taking your wife out tonight. I'm not married. You are. She's in the stands looking. And he'd look up and can't stop it.

[Jake]

Why were you doing that?

[Paul Gascoigne]

Just. I don't know. I just. I just love playing football.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

When I was a young kid playing for the boys clubs, like, were you talking to a boys club?

[Paul Gascoigne]

Yeah, non stop. Non stop. Yeah. I played against Robbie Savage. He was having a go at us and I just started talking of him and around him, and he. He played midfield. The second half, when we come out, Robbie went in the right back. I looked at him, I said, come on, Marcus. He went, no, you talk too much. Even in the dressing forward games, I never got worried. I just knew how good I was. And all I had to do was just, you know, just get on the ball.

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[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

But when he was a kid though like I'm really interested in that because we get lots of like young kids listening to this want to go on achieve even a fraction of well at.

[Paul Gascoigne]

14 and I had like Southampton, Ipswich, Newcastle, Middlesbrough, Burnley. So I had all them knocking on the doors like once the same for them, you know. But I was always wanting Newcastle.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

And what did your mum and dad?

[Paul Gascoigne]

Yeah but at the time they had been arguing mum and dad. I was in the Newcastle office to sign the contract 16 and my mom's sitting one end of the table, my dad's sitting the other and so I've signed the contract and the secretary was if I get a member of one of your families are saying this I'll do it. Me mum. No I'm his dad. I'll sign it. Until they were Robin I said just both upside it please. Yeah I laughed about that with him. Yeah I just played with a smile on my face and my first three games when I was like 17 and a bit I was Man United. I Got man of match. Liverpool got man of match and Tottenham man of match had scored two. That was like my first two games. And I remember going to my dad, said, dad, when you gonna come watch us play? He went, you haven't made it yet, son. I'm like, oh.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

So we never came to the you debut?

[Paul Gascoigne]

No, no, I never coming to them. Just what he used to say, get buckled in. But when I started at Newcastle, when I was playing for the first team, obviously couldn't. I used to get on the bus, like whatever suit I could put on and I'd pay 10 pence. I'd be sitting with the fans, they wouldn't know I would be playing. I mean, I'm praying for all these shortly. So I get off the bus and mo up with the fans and I'll go into the dressroom, play the game and then after the game go back to the bus stop, pay me 10 pence and go back home. I was on 25 quid a week. I imagine playing against Liverpool, man, you're on 25 quid a week. And then my man was on 30 quid. I found out, mom, how are you getting 30 quid and I get 25? I'm the one that's playing football. I give you meals. What, beans on toast, says God Almighty. But because my diet was like a bottle of Coca Cola, fish and chips and a packed of minstrels that was made out at night. And then 11 o' clock at night, I said, listen to that fame. Who's going to live forever now? And I just put the bin bags on and go run. 11 o' clock at night.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

Did you? Sweating it out?

[Paul Gascoigne]

Yeah, just not just getting fit. Getting fit and fit and fitter.

[Jake]

And that's one thing about you that I think people don't realize the hard work. Because, you know that idea of Gaza's a joker. Gaza likes a drink, Gaza loves a party. You can't have the career you had and played for the clubs you played for.

[Paul Gascoigne]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jake]

Well, the craft, the hard work.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

Yeah.

[Paul Gascoigne]

But 11 o' clock at night when no one was about, I just put the plaster bag on and just easily the mom dad just went right all around gated.

[Jake]

Did it ever bother you that the opinion was you were a joker, but you were so much more than that?

[Paul Gascoigne]

No, I just. Because I knew, I knew how, how good I was, you know, so there wasn't really a problem. I could, I could laugh and joke, you know, because I loved football, you know. And you know when you, when you're getting Your name shouted by the crowd and they're loving you and singing your name, you know, it's a great feeling. So I always want to say I watched that movie, watched a couple of times in a row, Gladiator, Entertain the crowd and win them over. And I always thought of that, you know, take a few bodies off the mountains, stop messing about. But that's okay.

[Jake]

I think it's important for us though to tell the full story to the people that are watching this. And I, and I look at that time when you emerged into the Newcastle first team and like that is the dream for so many young people. And your life was just on the up at that point.

[Paul Gascoigne]

Yeah, it was flying.

[Jake]

But actually a few years before you'd been involved in a. In a really big tragedy. And I just wonder how. How that tragic moment that cost the life of a young friend of yours, combined with your explosion after that was probably hard for you internally.

[Paul Gascoigne]

Well, it was a bit of name me because I started getting after that happened and I ran down, he died his head on my lap.

[Jake]

So what happened?

[Paul Gascoigne]

Keith was my best mate and we used to go to the Reggie Boys Club and his brother was 10. Anyway, his brother wanted to go and he says, she went, take Stephen with you.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

Who did? His mom.

[Paul Gascoigne]

His mom takes Steve my year. And Keith went, no, I don't want to be. Didn't want to be with, you know, brother's fighting up. She went, I'm not going. And if he's going. So I went, I'll take you. I was only about 10 minutes walking up the road and went to the shop and there was an ice cream outside the shop and I says, come on quick, we're going to be late. So he ran ahead of us. It was only one yard. And when he went past that ice cream van, the car ahead of, he went about 30 yards. Wow. And I was like. And then he sat in the car attached to. So I ran down and Stephen and I was talking and he had his head on my lap and his lips moved and I thought he's going to be all right. But wasn't that was his last movements. I was stuck there with his head there for 20 minutes. Then I went to see him and he passed away. And all of a sudden for some reason I started ending up with like ticks, like making noise all the time or they like squeeze my eyes all the time out. I baked me lip and non stop for years. I couldn't get rid of them. And I went to see somebody and then eventually I just had to talk about it eventually when I went to see someone, I just talked about it as if Stephen was there. And I was just like, talking of an empty chair and that I helped his help a lot. And all of a sudden the ticks went away, like, you know.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

So what did you say to Stephen?

[Paul Gascoigne]

Well, when an empty chair. I'm really sorry. What happened now? You know, I shouldn't have told you to run and, you know, it had to be me, but, you know, things happen for. You couldn't even say things for a reason. But it was like, and I'm really sorry. I miss you. And I. I was just talking and I just broke down crying, which I hadn't really cried over, to be fair. And then I just started crying my eyes out for a while and then I got through it, like, you know.

[Jake]

Did you blame yourself?

[Paul Gascoigne]

I did it first. Yeah. I went, oh, my God, if I hadn't took him. It's always if I hadn't took him, you know.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

And what did, like, the adults say, like, Stephen's mom or your mom and dad?

[Paul Gascoigne]

I was really close to them. Like, you know, I was really close to them. Nothing really. They just tried to. I went round there and stared. Stayed around the house. And then Stephen was upstairs in there and he's coughing in the. In the house. And then Keith said, come on, let's go and see him. So I was like, o. And went up and he said, pick him out. So obviously, like 12 years of age, picking a dead body out the coffin and kiss and cuddle them inside and putting them back down. Then I stayed in that room for a few days. So, like, few sleepless nights.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Paul Gascoigne]

Always horrific, like, you know, but.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

And when you look back on that now, Paul, like, do you think that helped you?

[Paul Gascoigne]

I just, you know, I just say how easy it is for someone just to pass away, like, you know, and like, the things I put myself through. I'm looking to still be sitting here.

[Jake]

I think I just want to take you back to this period where your career is starting to fly. I just. I just wonder whether it was difficult after what you'd gone through with the young boy, for you to then be getting all this success, whether that was a hard thing for you to sort of.

[Paul Gascoigne]

Not really, because I'd already. I thought I'd dealt with that, like, you know, it was only like, when I. When I actually started playing professional 16 Newcastle, a lot of that just went out the way, like, you know, I stopped thinking about it. I was just concentrating, the football, you know, Newcastling four year contract. In my head I'm thinking wow, I'm getting 25 quid a week for four years. That's good. At least I'm getting some money coming in because normally you negotiate your contract. So this is Gaza wants to leave Newcastle because I got rid of Peter Beauty and Chris won whatever. And Jack Charlie says right then Gaz, I've done your contract for you. I went new ev because it was I love Jack, I've done your contract. What do you mean? You told me contract. Well you're saying it, you're saying a four year contract. Said I want to sign four. Yeah. I want to sign two. Yeah. He went no, you're saying the four year contract and I'm giving you 240 a week. And I went it's not bad 240 but 120 week. I said what about the other 120? He says every time you play I'll give you the other 120. He was the man gives me debut. And it was so funny because it was like I used to sit next to him on the bench. She said, going on shortly and it was like five minutes for half time. He said I'm putting you on at off time. I went okay. So I was getting excited. I was getting excited and the fan starts shouting charlton out. Charlton out. He went guys. I couldn't hear that. I went yeah. He went I don't need that. Tap his own thing say they'll have a good career. Honestly. He walked out. That was it.

[Jake]

Told you he was quitting before anyone else knew.

[Paul Gascoigne]

Yeah. Half tablet the rest of the players. Where's the gaffer? Wow. And when he's left he's not come back.

[Jake]

And why did you leave? I was amazed because I like well.

[Paul Gascoigne]

It'S all Peter Beach Newcastle boyhood club. Yeah. Well it's helped Peter Beeji and Chris Waddle, you know and you want to play with the best and they were, they were quality, you know. So then it was like all what was the difference in the bottom three? You know. You know so I just when I you know when you're playing against Man United. But even though I got man the match all like Liverpool they were the first club that come in for us. So when dad Kenny Taglies he went good night. So I told the Kentaglish half an hour they put the foot down and my dad went what did you say son? My dad, I did not understand a word he said. He went you're an idiot. More than that he said more Than that what we're gonna do. He went you that up? And you know. So the next call was Alex Ferguson.

[Jake]

Why didn't you go to United?

[Paul Gascoigne]

So Tottenham rang up and I said, dad, it's Tottenham. He went down the off. You're saying for Man United. Me dad saying, said, I've got same for Man United. And I'm gonna tell your dad if you say if I taught them and give him 120 grand. Oh, hold on, dad, if I sign for Tottenham, I'm going to give you 120 grand. He went, what the are you waiting for then, son? So he said, what. What the you waiting for? I don't care. But the next season when I signed for Tottenham, the next season, that's when Alex Ferguson brought on Beck's and Schools. He bought Neville's gigs. Both all them through, like, you know. But at that time they had like Neil Webb and Brian Hobson in the midfield, something and brought. I got to play with Brian in. In the World cup when Neil Webb got injured, you know. So I thought, where am I going to play? But when I went to leave Latcho, it was so funny. I. I thought, right, I'm going to leave Lacho. And it was Chelsea, Leeds, Aston Villa and Rangers in for us. So I thought, I wonder if Sal take it. So I ring Brian Robson up and ra. I'm leaving Lazio. Do you think Fergie will be interested in this? He went, I don't know. Have a word with me. I'm with this now. I honestly shake myself. I went, oof. I froze. Hello, what do you want? And I went, oh, God. I went, look, I'm leaving Nacho. Do you want to sign this? And he waited for a bit. He went, look at her. Okay. Then he says, I've got Cantona. If he leaves, I'll sign you. If he stays, then obviously you play in his sort of position. Cantona state. And I was quite like, okay. But it was funny because I said, I'm not saying much else. You're not saying Papilla. And when they said Rangers, I went, no crap. And I was walking out dinosaur. And he went, glasgow Rangers. And I stopped and I turned around and went, oh, I thought he said Queensborough. I thought you meant Queen's Park Rangers. Yeah, get him over. Yeah.

[Jake]

So do you regret not signing for Man United when you went to Spurs?

[Paul Gascoigne]

Sometimes you think about it, but I had a great time at Tottenham, you know, I got to play for England, you know, I always get man and match who got to the Cup Final. Could have won the league, you know, And I was buzzing then. Good bunch of lads, couple of crazy ones like me. I had some good fun there. A great manager, Teddy Venables, like, you.

[Jake]

Know, when we talk about Gaza in England, what springs to mind for you?

[Paul Gascoigne]

I'll be in here at home and Bob Robson says, go and get me going. Put me on 20 minutes ago. And I scored my first goal last week and was incredible. I try not watch football because I still miss it so much.

[Jake]

I think in some ways it's kind of. It's kind of sad that you find it hard to watch football because you gave the sport so much and the sport gave you so much.

[Paul Gascoigne]

Now when I look back at it, I think, whoa. It's quite frightening, you know, when I see some of the clips.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

Whoa.

[Paul Gascoigne]

How did I get through that latcho? When I say for them, he's like 30,000 at the airport. I'm not expecting that, you know, Next minute you've got like 22 bodyguards around you.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

What interests me is that Bobby Robson famously called you daft as a brush when you were 22. And yet to go and be able to pick up Italian at the age of 24, 25 isn't somebody that's daft as a bro.

[Paul Gascoigne]

Yeah, I know. It was funny because Terry Venom was Lazio one year. Who's Lazio? And he went Italian and I went gava. I can't even speak English. I mean, Italian, man.

[Jake]

Doesn't happen by accident. Again, a bit like the rest of your career. There was this hard work that wasn't seen by people.

[Paul Gascoigne]

Oh, yeah, I know. The amount of work I put in training, you know, non stop at your latch. I'd like. Sometimes we train twice a day, but I'd like do betting myself, then train with them and some in the afternoon and train again with them and then at night time. So sometimes it's trained five times a day.

[Jake]

A lot of people don't take account of the fact that you've had to recover from some really difficult moments.

[Paul Gascoigne]

She's never going to play again. I come back then from the broken kneecap. Took nine months to come back from the fibrin tibia. You know that. And then I did the Strictly Come Dancing on Ice. The first show of. I was two minutes in the ring and I tried to do a spin and I flipped up on my back and I've heard a crack. I know I broke my neck. So that opened up and put balls in my neck. I smashed vertebrate eight, nine. I Was a half a millimeter. I haven't been in a wheelchair for life. Wow. Wow.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

How much do you blame yourself for, like the recklessness.

[Paul Gascoigne]

Yeah. The cup fighting. I shouldn't have been in that position. When I did the challenge, when I did my ligaments, the one when nest, I was just anger. Because I always remember Brian Robson. When I signed, when I played my first game in the England, he went, hey, guys, haven't caught me in my career. He says, any of the challenges leave them for me. Any of the headers, I'll take the cuts and all that. I wish I had this. 36 operations later, I should have listened to them.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

That Brian Robson example, like, when I was reading about your career, it struck me that you often seem to respond best when you had like strong male figures in your life. Whether it was James Yalton, Robson, Terry Venables, whether it was Dino's off at Laziod. Those strong male figures seem to give you a platform to go and perform.

[Paul Gascoigne]

Yeah. Oh, definitely. I mean, what was it they did? Just respect for them, you know, that they actually come up and just felt like the kid, you know, the kid. And it was like they didn't want anything from us. It just wanted to be happy and go out and do the business, you know, like that first time I ever met Bobby Robson, he was like world class, you know, he's just come back from the World cup or whatever. And I scored for the England B team. Coming into the dressing room, coming straight to B and you fatty, this is one day you forget to play for my team, England, the big team. This is when you get off their moss balls. I just looked laughed. Okay, will do.

[Jake]

Recklessness, though, in football is one thing, but in your personal life, I wonder how you reflect, you know, on things like the relationship with your ex wife and your kids and stuff like that.

[Paul Gascoigne]

I did a lot of things just off the cuff. Some I regret. I'll think of something. I thought, no, no, I can't do that. And then after I have a couple of drinks or whatever, I'll go and do it.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

Like what?

[Paul Gascoigne]

Like just daft things like drive a bus down London high street with 70 passengers singing I'm all, We're all going on some holiday. I've got 70 people singing it with us. I went, oh, I've got passages. I like thinking rehab. I've never been for drugs ever and I'm probably for drink, probably two, three times the others, like, I've been for cal pole. I want to rehab. I couldn't get off Cal pole. You couldn't get off because Cal Polars. No, no, no, no, no. 0.1% of alcohol. So I thought if I have 20 bottles of it, that'd be like crown of a pint. So I just. And then I got bored. From every chemist in Newcastle. Don't give him cal pole. I said, listen, I've got three wives and nine kids. I need Cowpol. It was mad I went for Red Bull, actually went once for no reason. Flew from Spain to Arizona just for a month. Just have a break and have everything perfect with this ocd.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

And when did you develop that trait of ocd?

[Paul Gascoigne]

I think I was mainly after that, the incident with Steve when he was 12, you know, after they stopped all the twitching and all of a sudden becoming very wanted everything perfect. And they say days horrible. I had treatment over it like it was horrible, that treatment. And I had stand on every crack. Had to go around the hotel room switching light switches off and on. He text us 13 times. He called us 13 times a day or some was the hardest thing. He just said, you just got to work on ocd, like, you know, try not touch things three times. Just do it the once. Because where the people will say they like Beckham as can have soft drinks in the same pit as food steams there, washes his hands 15 to 25 times a day. It's one of these things when I speak to people, it's like if you don't do that ritual, think something's going to happen bad to you.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

And do you think about your legacy of what people will say about you as a. As a man and a footballer?

[Paul Gascoigne]

Me, well, you know, when he get called national treasure and then people still stopping you all the time for signatures or selfies. The last time it was sa there was a guy coming. I was walking down the aisle and there was a guy coming and he's come up to this and he start crying his eyes and went on his knees crying. And his kids, two kids were staring at me as if I'd had a favorite. I went, get up, man, the kids are crying. He went, but you're my hero. And he was really crying. I bet you give a hug. And then the kids were all right after that, I'm like, wow, it's nice to see them. He said. And I said, me mates, I don't call them fans because it's really nice them because my dad years and years and years ago when I first made me debuted against Liverpool, I went home, started, got my match. He went, right, just remember where you come from. And since then, he says, because you never know, one day you might need these fans. And he's spot on. So for like since I was 17 to. Even now I don't turn down an autograph. Auto forwarder. And everyone like Kaza can remember that goal you scored against Scotland, mate. Do you remember I scored? Of course I remember it.

[Jake]

Was that your greatest goal for England?

[Paul Gascoigne]

It was the Scotland game when I said to the lads, because I remember the, the celebration and the fa, and I went, right, guy, whoever scores, because I was playing against my own teammates, against seven of them, and I got abuse in that dressroom at Rangers for months. We're going to stick ready up here. And I said, listen, you've seen what I'm like when I play for Rangers, guys, but you'll not see more like when I play for England. I said to the guys going out, listen, guys, whoever scores, do the dentist chair. And obviously as God did the dentist chair. And then they squeezed the Lucas Aid. But that was a disappointment because I'd squeezed Lucas Aid and not gin. So I was a bit good, you know.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

The summer of 96 was your summer.

[Paul Gascoigne]

Yeah.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

When we interviewed Gary Lineker, he said there's not a day goes by where he doesn't think about the 1990 semi final. I'm interested. How often do you go back and.

[Paul Gascoigne]

Think about, well, the 1990. I didn't take a penalty as such and you know, I was obviously devastated getting that card. But, you know, I was more devastated because I had to like the best time in my life, you know, it's that such a young age with great players, but actually like training every day in the sun, enjoying myself, fantastic, you know, and it's like, wow, this is a life. And then when I come to the end, it's like I honestly thought my career, I was only 22 and a half. I thank God my career is over with now, I'm never going to play again. That was in my mind. And then when I got back home, I was having a shanty with my dad and I said, dad, I'll see you later. And it was 10 o' clock at night and I went up to the park on my own where I used to play when I was 7 years of age and that and start crying my eyes out. Thank God this is where I've just come from, from here tomorrow.

[Jake]

Why did that affect you so much?

[Paul Gascoigne]

Incredible. I just couldn't wait to get back playing again. So I got the pre season over and that season after that 91 I couldn't put a foot wrong. I scored goals for 1 for 4 and scoring every game in the FE cup and that. It was just. I was buzzing, you know, I just felt. I just couldn't.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

Couldn't.

[Paul Gascoigne]

I was untouchable, you know, get man of match all the time. And then you know, obviously the goal. Doing the dentist chair. Not obviously. The G South gate. Hates it when I see it. Car, can I have a word with you? What I can't understand. I scored my penalty against Germany. I go to rehab. Says you miss your penny, you get a 30 grand pizza advert in England. Manager's job. What the did I do wrong? Don't tell anyone that. Guys asked. Everyone knows. He just laughed.

[Jake]

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[Narrator/Interviewer]

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[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

I wonder, you know, when the ball comes across before that's.

[Paul Gascoigne]

I still think about that kind of.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

Watch that you can't.

[Paul Gascoigne]

I think if that was Shearer or Linear, they would have scored that because their instinct is just, you know. But I'm thinking ahead and I honestly, when I seen it come across, I thought the keeper was going to get a touch. Now if he got a touch of it, it would have went behind us. So I've just waited for that touch and I would have tapped it in if I just kept on going forward. It's not just the thing that could have scored that. It's what goes through me. It's me celebration. Just a celebration. I don't know what was it, because.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

It was called the gold, wasn't it?

[Paul Gascoigne]

Yeah. Would have been over. God almighty, what a story that would have been.

[Jake]

And I remember, like, obviously you were for a time the most famous man in Britain, possibly the most famous person in Europe.

[Paul Gascoigne]

Well, I have had the Pope bring me up the latch. St. John Paul. Yeah. The man's house is Geno's office. Call fire. He said, no, it's a phone call. You got to take it. I went, tell him to fucking train him. He says, it's important. I said, what the fuck is it? Then he went, it's the Pope. I picked up the phone, I went, turned away. I just went, hi, Pope, what do you want? He went, I want to meet you. My dad's a Catholic. And they were over and he signed his visit and saying. I went, dad, you got to go to the Vatican. So actually went to the Vatican and gave us a couple of medals. There's pictures of me house. My dad, like, going like that to the Pope. I said, dad, what are you doing there? He said, I'm asking for some money. So my mom and dad got to meet the Pope. The Pope gave me dad a little Christopher, and he loves that picture.

[Jake]

When I told friends we were going to come and meet you, it's one of the very few times that they are so interested, like, what is Paul Gascoigne like?

[Paul Gascoigne]

Yeah.

[Jake]

Do you think people really understand you or is there.

[Paul Gascoigne]

There's no one. You know, it's like, people know Paul Gascoigne, but Gaza, no one knows. You know, he made some names, and I remember Walter Smith. Give me three head tests and a scan to see what's wrong with this. There's something wrong with you. So you give us three especially. He says, what you're doing on the pitch is not normal.

[Jake]

So who are we talking to right now? Are we talking to Paul Gascoigne or are we talking to Gazza?

[Paul Gascoigne]

Serious stuff. Paul Gascoigne. If I get well over there, Gazza is like, the funny side of it.

[Jake]

You know, I noticed that when we talk about the serious stuff, the answers are shorter. And then. Yeah, straight away, there's a. There's a gag and there is a joke and there's a funny story.

[Paul Gascoigne]

That's the other side of it. Yeah.

[Jake]

That's Gaza.

[Paul Gascoigne]

Is it? Yeah.

[Jake]

And why does Gaza need to step in?

[Paul Gascoigne]

I just have to be. Because I've spent a lot of years being down. Like, you know, when. When I did the ligaments, then the kneecap, then building. I missed four years of football, you know, I would have got 100 caps or. I try not get down and. Because the world's already enough down, you know, and I don't like it when I'm down. And that's sometimes when I can be really down. That's when I pick up a drink to cheer myself up. But I used to be a happy junk, you know, And I. I ain't anymore. If I'm drunk, I just. I'll go. Like. I don't go out and drink. I'll drink indoors.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

And how much is humor been almost a protective defense mechanism.

[Paul Gascoigne]

Yeah. And I hide myself a little bit behind you, man. Not. Yeah, but like, when I do these venues and go on stage, don't really talk about football that much. I talk about all the crazy stuff I got up to, like, you know, and like that. Because, you know, it's easy for me. Like. Like those. I. I was brought up engaged. I've got a brother, two sisters, and mom and dad. I started. This is where I went to school. That's like some of the players, the venues, I can't do that. Got to get straight in and get them laughing, you know? Sure.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

But I also think there's something that. Like your incredible story of coming, like growing up in Dunstan.

[Paul Gascoigne]

Yeah.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

And the journey you've been on. I think people want to know the human behind it rather than.

[Jake]

Yeah.

[Paul Gascoigne]

When I come to the script, I've want to stop playing for England and that. Then there's been a few times where I've cried on stage and like. And they all start singing me name and that and then gets. Gets them up and then. Because, like, you miss on a Saturday, you know, like entertaining people, you know, I got such a buzz from it. I just get such a. Such a fucking buzz from it, you know, and you miss that.

[Jake]

Some of the best memories of my childhood. I get emotional talking about now. Some of the best memories of my childhood were made by you.

[Paul Gascoigne]

Yeah.

[Jake]

So why are you carrying this?

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

Sad.

[Paul Gascoigne]

I don't know. Sometimes I do, you know, it's me. I put myself in that mood and. Which is stupid because there's loads I can do.

[Jake]

You know, when we finish this and head off our separate ways, I know people will say to us, what sort of a bloke is Paul Gascoigne? What would you like the answer to be?

[Paul Gascoigne]

Fun, loving guy, caring. I'd do anything for a challenge, you know, I'm fearless. But then I also have the other side. I mean, I can be emotional soft, you know, Takes a lot for us to. Sorry. It didn't take a lot for us to cry. Sometimes I keep a lot of stuff in, you know, some stuff I should share and some. You get scared of sharing it with people. You think, oh, God, you know. But I'm not fighting to say, like, I'm scared, you know, I ain't scared. I'm not fighting to say that. Look, I'm worried. I don't think I'll ever, ever grow up. I don't think I'll ever grow up. It's which I don't mind, like, you know, proud of what I've give a lot of people, you know, people don't know, like, it was nearly million quid. I don't think it was that much to 10 different charities. I told them, ringing, keep it quiet.

[Jake]

I think a lot of people that have been through what Paul's been through, you know, like you, mate, Jimmy, selling stories to the press or people letting you down. I think a lot of people would have given up on. On humanity. And it feels like Paul hasn't.

[Paul Gascoigne]

No. You know, I think the time that I give in is when I'm in a wooden box, apart from that I'll just keep on fighting on, like, you know, as long as I wake up in the morning, I'm still alive and, you know, looking forward to the day, then I'm good. You know.

[Jake]

People think fame is really amazing, right?

[Paul Gascoigne]

You know what, Honestly, it's the best feeling in the world come from a nobody to fucking be mega famous. It's fantastic becoming famous. But, you know, once it's famous, you cannot go anywhere else. The only story is they whack you right down.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

You know, when your phone was being hacked, like, what did that do to your relationships with, like, friends and family? Because you must have assumed that they were selling stories I had imagined.

[Paul Gascoigne]

Yeah. Yeah. First of all, when I first happened, I thought it was Mum, dad, because they're the only ones I spoke to. And I kept on coming out in the papers and I didn't speak to them for three months and I went badly on the drink and that. And I thought, mom and Dad's doing this. And then eventually when the police says, look, you get your phone's getting hacked. And when I found out of God, you know, Mum and Dad was happy. And then obviously I had to go around and apologize. My dad's section is for 11 days because he thought I was going nuts. And it just. Every time I made a call to my dad, I said, dad, how are you? And I cut off. Then the next call to him would be perfect. So I've obviously got the number of my dads and then ready to record, if I sent a text, I'd go and stop, obviously, and then I wouldn't go through. So they've written the press, have looked at the text, written it all down. Next time when I resend it, it goes straight through. So they've already read that. So that's how I knew. And I went. Deletes all his messages. Every time he gets a message and delete it. I have to. If I send a message, I'll send it. Once it goes through, I delete. If I receive one, I read it and then delete. Because you've already got people still. Yeah, just them repressing that, you know, when 30 days and. And rehab and just sat in the room, paranoid a bit, trying to do anything, trying to eat food, wouldn't judge food in case I got spiked. Made us that bad that getting your phone out. And then on the other side of it, I've obviously took a few daft nude pictures of myself. I was like, The fuck knows. Well, I don't know who's got pictures of me not, but I think half a Britain.

[Jake]

It's been really nice to meet you. Honestly, mate. And you know, the things that you've. You've done in your life. I think one of the keys for me was reading what your former teammates thought of you. Like, everyone that you played with talks about you improving the team dynamic, caring almost more about the team than you did about yourself. And I think that in life that how we make people around us feel is our legacy. And, you know, you did what you could for others.

[Paul Gascoigne]

You know, I'm enjoying life. I can make it even better if I want to. You know, I just gotta just keep on working on myself really more than anything. We're all rooting for you at the moment. I'm happy.

[Jake]

You know what? I actually, I like doing this afterwards, just getting a cup of tea, sitting down and kind of just reflecting on what we've just done. Because I thought Paul was a fascinating guy. And I'll be totally honest, for the first little bit of the interview, I was worried that we were just going to be hearing stories the whole time. We were never really going to get to know Paul Gascoigne. And we don't know Gazza. And I feel like he really opened up eventually.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

I think there was a real classic case there of trust, isn't there? And I think quite understandably, we've never met him before and I think he's been burnt by so many people that have used his trust when he's given it to them and, and chosen to abuse it. So I sense the defenses were up a bit and he uses that classic humor deflection if he feels anyone's getting close. And I think we got the Gaza classic stories. And then there was a moment where I think he started to let us in occasionally. I don't think he let us in all the way, but I think he let us in occasionally to see Paul rather than Gazza.

[Jake]

Yeah. I almost think though that he let us in as far as he possibly can. You know, I don't think that he's able to let people get any closer than that. And actually you realize just what a vulnerable guy he is, actually.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

Yes, yeah, definitely. And I think before I met him, I was reminded of that classic. Tim Galway, the author of the Inner Game of Tennis, has this great formula that says performance is your potential minus distractions. And I think given his performance at times was world class and elite as a footballer. So his potential was obviously there. Remember we watched that footage of his youth coach in Newcastle saying, this guy's the best in the world. But I think what we got an insight to is how difficult these distractions have been for him, whether it's addictions, whether it's. Whether it's ocd, whether it's tragedy. And I think what I wanted to do was celebrate an incredible career that he's had in spite of all those challenges.

[Jake]

Yeah, I mean, I. I just love the fact that he was happy to share with us that, you know, he really lives day to day. And I think it's a reminder that that's actually the way life is for a lot of people, you know, that I kind of got the impression that he's a guy that is walking on this tightrope, and at the moment he's on the diet rope, and he's okay. But the truth is that any moment he could fall off. The world can take advantage of that. You know, as he told us, there was that trauma of being involved in the death of a friend at a young age. And the link between trauma and addiction is clear. It's been researched, and there's a lot of papers been published about that. And I think that it saddens me that so many people over the years have taken advantage of that.

[Paul Gascoigne]

And it's.

[Jake]

The world can be bloody cruel for some people.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

And you.

[Jake]

You do have to. All of us have to build up our sort of shield and our coat of armor to deal with what the world throws at us. Particularly when you live in a world as crazy as the one that Paul lived in.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

Yeah, I think that was really interesting. I think, like, even the nature of his relationship with his father, you know, that sort of tough love can be quite difficult for lots of us to experience as well. And I think that's why he either deflects it with humor or is incredibly generous. He gives people all the time. And the one message that I would take out of it is if you were saying to Paul is, you are enough. Just on your own, you are enough. You don't need to be Gaza the clown. You don't need to be Paul the ever generous host. You as your. As yourself is more than enough. And I think that's a powerful message for anyone watching this to remember for themselves.

[Jake]

Yes. Just so. Right. And I think we could all think of the missteps and the moments we fail or the things where we didn't live up to our own expectations, but look at what he did. Look at what he achieved. Look at the joy that he brought to people. You know, like I said to you at the beginning. It's very rare that I get sort of peaked by interviewing well known people. But, you know, Paul Gascoigne gave me more joy as a footballer than anyone else ever has. You know, when he cried at the World cup, the whole country cried along with him. When he was lauded after the World cup, the whole country was loving that. And it's just a shame that he's had to learn the hard way that those things don't live forever. But I think we saw someone today who at the moment looks happy, looks safe, and I think maybe for Paul, that's probably all we can wish for.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

Yeah. And I do, I think the vulnerability that he shows naturally makes you warm to him and that's why I can only wish him absolute happiness and contentment in his own life.

[Jake]

Yeah, it feels just like a privilege to have met Paul Gascoigne, been in the house where he's living, shown around his bedroom, you know, just given a real insight into who he is and what he does. Yeah, mate, thanks ever so much.

[Co-host (possibly a sports journalist or psychologist)]

Privilege. Thank you, mate.

[Jake]

As always, thanks for listening. Please, if you've taken something from this conversation, hit subscribe. And if you want to, please share with someone who needs to hear this conversation. I can't wait to see you next time on High Performance.

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[Jake]

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