Peter Kenyon: How He Transformed Man Utd & Chelsea to Dominate World Football (E404)

Summary

The High Performance Podcast, E404: Peter Kenyon – How He Transformed Man Utd & Chelsea to Dominate World Football

Date: April 13, 2026
Host(s): Jake Humphrey & Damian Hughes
Guest: Peter Kenyon (Former Chief Executive of Manchester United & Chelsea)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, the High Performance team sits down with Peter Kenyon, one of football’s most influential executives, to dissect his leadership journey at Manchester United and Chelsea, as well as his current role with Williams in Formula 1. Kenyon offers candid insights into how he built winning cultures, managed seismic personalities (like Sir Alex Ferguson and José Mourinho), navigated boardroom politics, and how these lessons translate across elite sport. The conversation is a masterclass on organizational culture, people-centric leadership, and the invisible forces behind sustained sporting success.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Foundations of Elite Sporting Performance

People over Processes

• Kenyon underscores that building a winning organization starts with the right people, not just processes or technology.
• Quote: "There is no substitute for good people. Building an organization, building a team, it all comes back to trust." (02:14)

Translating Business Principles to Sport

• Kenyon notes many sports organizations were “under-managed” compared to their commercial potential, benefiting greatly from the rigors of governance and reporting borrowed from business.

The “Holy Trilogy” of Football Success

• Success is sustained by the triangle of owner, CEO, and head coach/manager working in harmony.
• At Man Utd: PLC board (investors), CEO (Kenyon), manager (Ferguson).
• At Chelsea: Owner (Abramovich), CEO (Kenyon), manager (Mourinho).
• “It’s that division of skill sets brought together where you really optimise the results.” (08:27)

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2. Transforming Manchester United

Modernization & Commercial Growth

• United’s leap to a PLC led to the implementation of advanced governance, a full-time doctor, marketing and commercial departments, and a “future-proof” training ground (Carrington).
• United became a global sporting brand by fusing football tradition with shrewd business organization.

The Ruthlessness of High-Performance Cultures

• Sir Alex Ferguson: Renowned for his “ruthlessness” and clarity about when a player peaked or didn’t fit the team culture.
• Quote: “I think one of the things that Alex did better than anybody else I've seen is understand what United needed to be as a team, and to that point, completely ruthless to that individual.” (15:12)
• Example: David Beckham’s departure — a matter of preserving United’s identity over commercial or sentimental interests.

Managing Sir Alex Ferguson

• Kenyon describes a delicate balance of trust, open confrontation, and clear boundaries with Ferguson.
• Quote: “I'm not going to try and do your job. You're here to do this and we better be honest about that. And I'm here to do this… If this role's not here or I'm not here, you'll be less successful.” (25:31)

Recruitment and Development

• Case study: Cristiano Ronaldo’s rapid acquisition after a preseason friendly wowed United’s players and Ferguson himself (19:19-20:10).

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3. Navigating Ownership & Boardroom Dynamics

The Importance of Ownership Philosophy

• Major difference between satisfying a single owner (Abramovich at Chelsea) and a formal board (United).
• Successful ownership lets management execute and focuses on long-term value.

Integrity & Transparency

• On difficult decisions, like telling Beckham he was leaving:
  • Quote: “It’s over here... and we’re asking you to look at joining Real Madrid, not, you know, not Bolton... It's confronting difficult situations in a way that is respectful and honest and open.” (22:22)
• “The big teams, the high performing teams, are honest with each other… it's a tough environment.” (23:14)

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4. The Chelsea Revolution

Abramovich’s Vision & Kenyon’s Role

• The “best night of [Abramovich's] life” was attending Man Utd vs Real Madrid at Old Trafford.
• Kenyon was invited as CEO due to his reputation for building, not just maintaining, winners.
• Key: Be objective, not a fan. “You can’t always be a fan... You’ve got to be objective.” (39:12)

Building Sustainable Culture

• Chelsea shifted focus from changing entire backroom staff with every new manager to establishing a club-driven culture where managers fit into the structure.
• 20 trophies in 19 years: “People fitted the structure—or didn’t.” (58:57)

José Mourinho & the Pursuit of Excellence

• Kenyon describes how Mourinho elevated the squad’s sense of purpose and belief.
• “He made them all bigger than what they were… these guys physically grew.” (56:20)
• Two years unbeaten at home: “Nobody had done that.” (59:17)
• Mourinho and Ferguson: Different styles, same ability to build unwavering belief.

Change Management & Ruthlessness

• Ranieri replaced despite success: the long-term vision was for Chelsea to be the best, not just to win occasionally.
• Mourinho’s eventual departure: “It ended early, right. That’s the reality… Jose said, ‘Pete, get me out of here, will you?’” (64:15)
• The relationship “ran its course,” underscoring the high turnover of elite environments built on relentless standards.

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5. Leadership Lessons and Transferring to Formula 1

Reinventing Williams F1

• Kenyon draws parallels between F1 and football: both are “global, high-stakes businesses where winning is built on people, not just tech or money.”
• The Williams turnaround is a deliberate, long-term project:
  • “This isn’t an overnight play… It will be a period where we’ll become a multiple world champion.” (75:07)
• Right people: James Vowles lauded as a new-winning team principal: “He understands that it is not just about building the right procedures and machines. It is about getting the right people.” (77:50)
• Critical to pick owners who understand the required patience, resources, and values.
  • “I guarantee if this role's not here or I'm not here, you'll be less successful. Right.” (25:31)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On culture: “Culture is the hardest thing to build.” (00:00)
• On ruthless decisions: “David, it’s over. And we’re asking you to look at joining Real Madrid.” (22:22)
• On the objective CEO role: “If you’re going to run the business properly, you can’t always be a fan.” (39:12)
• On winning culture: “Once you’ve won, you never want to lose.” – paraphrasing Ferguson (54:16)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Triangle of Success: (01:03–08:39)
• Modernising Manchester United: (09:01–10:01)
• Ferguson’s Leadership & Beckham Departure: (12:21–23:36)
• Ownership & The PLC Model: (27:10–31:30)
• Chelsea’s Transformation & Abramovich: (35:19–44:10)
• Hiring Mourinho, Building Culture: (51:51–59:11)
• Managing Transitions & Mourinho’s Departure: (61:13–65:10)
• Williams F1 Revival: (67:24–79:39)
• Final reflections: (79:39–80:17)

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Practical Wisdom & Takeaways

• Leadership is about assembling complementary talent and giving them clear roles—whether on the pitch, in the dugout, or the boardroom.
• Brutal honesty, trust, and a willingness to make tough calls sustain elite cultures.
• Ownership vision & values set the trajectory; organizational culture cements it.
• Winning is not accidental; it is built and rebuilt every single day, with no room for complacency.

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This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the hidden mechanisms of high performance in sport, exploring how world-class culture and leadership can shift the fate of clubs and organizations.

Transcript

[Peter Kenyon]

I had the two best coaches to work with, Alex and Jose. Culture is the hardest thing to build. Alex did better than anybody else I've seen, and to that point, completely ruthless. David, it's over. And we're asking you to look at joining Real Madrid. A special one. He then went two years with us without losing a game at home. Nobody'd done that. It ended early. Right. That's the reality. Jose said, pete, get me out of here, will you?

[Interviewer]

Your current role, Atlassian Williams, you're on record as saying that this is going to be one of the biggest comebacks in sporting history.

[Peter Kenyon]

I think it is. And why do I believe that is?

[Interviewer]

Never fear a storm. Be ready to adapt.

[Sponsor Voiceover]

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[Interviewer]

You've spoken about this holy trilogy, that triangle between the owner, the chief exec and the manager being at the heart of successful cultures.

[Peter Kenyon]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Tell us a bit more.

[Peter Kenyon]

Good business practices. If you apply those to sport, you're more successful. That's the reality. And I think that's because there's a lot of sports businesses are under managed.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yeah, yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

And that's because traditionally sports been full of fans doing jobs and in football, that certainly was. You got them cheaper because they were a fan.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Okay.

[Peter Kenyon]

So I think building business principles in sport is certainly what's helped me make those things more successful.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Peter Kenyon]

Yeah, that's. I think that's a fundamental problem. The second thing is there is no substitute. Whatever is happening in the world today, there's no substitute for good people. Right.

[Interviewer]

And what do you mean by good people?

[Peter Kenyon]

I mean people who are. Their skill set. So not everybody can do everything. So building an organization, building a team. Yeah, I guess is what it comes back to. And again, I think sport amplifies that more than anything. So. Because it builds trust. Right. You get somebody passing the ball into a space.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

Because they expect one of their colleagues to know them well enough to be on it. Having a left back got a different skill than a center forward. So you select the individual based on his skill. But there's lots of those. So why makes one team more successful than the other? It's teamwork, it's collaboration, it's belief, and it's building this trust. And that's a people dynamic. So again, I think there's a lot of people think that these things can be automatic.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

So.

[Peter Kenyon]

So we spend all our time on processes and tech and forget the people, quality people and understanding what you need and then bringing it together is the key to success, irrespective of the business.

[Interviewer]

So Tell us about how that would work, though, in the boardroom.

[Peter Kenyon]

One of the first jobs moving into United was there's a fundamental shift in its ownership because it. You started as a plc, it was somebody else's money.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

Wasn't your money, it wasn't a few shareholders of money. It was very public and therefore, you know, we're talking 96. 9. Governance was an important fighter. Right?

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

Football's a very different environment than it was then. And. And I don't know if you remember, but there was a. There was several clubs who'd gone public and they went public for liquidity reasons, just to give their shareholders some cash back. That's great. United was the only one that sort of ran it as a PLC with governance, with understanding, not get liquidity and then just do what you were doing.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

Right. So there's a fundamental sea change in. In United, in 96, post going public, we had to build the right governance structure.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

We have to. The right reporting structures because it was someone else's money.

[Interviewer]

But where did that different approach come from, Peter, who drove that?

[Peter Kenyon]

So that was initially driven by Roland Smith.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

So Roland was chairman. Roland was a big industrialist. He was chairman of hsbc, professor of marketing at Monsters University. A big, big character. Yeah, yeah, right. A big character. And. But he understood what good looked like. He understood what needed to happen as a PLC business. I think he was instrumental in taking it public to the benefit of the private shareholders and fundamentally to the benefit of United.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

Because I think, you know, you've got to look back at these things that, you know, the Premier League started first. TV money's come in with Murdoch and he. He bet the farm that, you know, sky was going to win over a quite competitive set.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

And, you know, I remember talking to him and he was really explicit. Sky was going to be successful based around sport and entertainment. I know sports. Football was going to be it. And, you know, I mean, I think he transformed us, the sport of football, by the way he produced it. You know, pre sky, there was four cameras, right. And most of the time it's following the ball, not the goal. So the production qualities that came in and all those dynamics came together, which I think is another interesting thing, is you look at the industry, you look at the trajectory and then it's how you. You differentiate yourself against whoever else is in that industry. So I think football started to grow. World Cups in football are just a phenomenal dynamic of growing the sport every four years. You know, that's what the World Cups and then European cup has all been about, you know, these, These moments in time that just have this massive continue. New fan base being brought in. So, so those things, you know, those, Those things around going public fundamentally was the driver of us. People didn't like it, but it was an important piece that made United really global, really successful. Was about applying a business structure to this wonderful thing called Manchester United.

[Interviewer]

But then tell us about this, about this trilogy. The three. Yeah, the three main characters that then took. That took all those ingredients and helped them be successful both on and off the.

[Peter Kenyon]

So that was that. That was sort of division of. Of. Of labor, if you like, the entity that was in charge of the cash and the responsibility for shareholder returns or value. Yeah, that was invariably the board or in. In. In Chelsea's case, the owner.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yeah, yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

The skill set between the CEO, who at that point I was responsible for delivering. Putting the plan together. Delivering the plan and again giving the right returns to the investors group.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

And then, and then the coach and. And again, you know, pre. Pre 96, the sort of coach was. Did everything. Did the contracts for the players decide the salary, decided which hotel were gone, what time. Trying to talk. Right. The sport was going to become much, much bigger than that.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

So we had to divide and divide those responsibilities and that's. That's what we did. And you know, the. The whole of Trinity that, you know, Josie talks about, which was him, me and Roman, that's how we ran the business. And that was like that you need the money. So we had to satisfy the owner that we were doing the right things. We needed to build the best team in Europe. That was the objective. And you can't do that without the coach who ultimately can make a good player great or a good player not so great. So he's got to be completely on board. And it's that division of skill sets brought together where you really optimise the results.

[Interviewer]

So what was the difference then? Say if you compare and contrast the Chelsea experience of you just had one man to satisfy in the ownership of Abramovich, whereas Manchester United, you've got a board that you're answering to.

[Peter Kenyon]

I mean, in theory it's the same thing. I guess what we had to do in United was very much put the structure in, you know, change the structure from, you know, a Martin and an Alex into a more formal board whose shareholders were at that point, pension schemes or whatever.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right, right.

[Peter Kenyon]

Not that interested in going to the game. It was an investment. And then changing that and really supporting Alex to be what he's really really good at and take all the other functions away. So you know for instance when I walked in United didn't have a full time doctor successful as successful as we were. We had you know no sturty art training ground Carrington came 98 we had the cliff which was one inside one outside training pitch now phenomenal but that wasn't future proofing United against the growth of the sport. You know so getting full time medical staff, getting a marketing department, getting a commercial department, starting to align skill sets to the job that real needed to doing to be to make you know United a global football brand went way beyond what it was in 9596 we'll

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[Interviewer]

I'm intrigued about the relationship with Sir Alex Ferguson and you in that time. Like, he's been on record as talking about where Martin Edwards sent him a letter suggesting he'd taken his eye off the ball in 97 and he was upset and piqued by it. You know, there was the occasion where he was going to threaten to not lead the team out at Wembley because of a pay dispute. You were having to mediate. You were the third wheel in that.

[Peter Kenyon]

Look, it was tough, right, Alex. Alex is one of the best. There's no doubt about it. If I sort of lean into the football years, I had the two best coaches to work with. Yeah, Alex and Jose. Very different, which is what you also find. Very different characters, very different ways of going about it. But in terms of real man management and leadership, Incredible.

[Interviewer]

So. Well, let's answer it in terms of what did they have in common?

[Peter Kenyon]

What they had in common was the ability to take people with them.

[Interviewer]

And how would they do that?

[Peter Kenyon]

In very. I mean, different ways. Right, so. So Alex would. If you lost, right, and you came back on the coach, he'd have the ability of taking people down to the depths. Like, there was nobody smiling, there was nobody talking. They were all waiting for him to crack. And then probably by about Knutsford, if he came from London, he'd decide that there was a Champions League game on Tuesday, so he better get these boys back up.

[Interviewer]

And how would he do that?

[Peter Kenyon]

So, I mean, he'd do it either by whistling, right, or he'd walk down the bus and clip Scalzie's ear. Something to break it up in a way that. Right. And they knew they'd suffered enough then, and they better be back in with the right headspace to win on Tuesday.

[Interviewer]

Right?

[Peter Kenyon]

Yeah. So his own unique way of doing things. Okay. But it, you know, and if you wrap all that up, I mean, his ability to sell United.

[Interviewer]

Go on.

[Peter Kenyon]

What do you mean by that? And by that, I mean you. You didn't come to United to. For the most money ever. If. If you wanted the most money. We just closed the book and said, go. Go to where you want to go to. All right, you're here. The culture of United was tangible.

[Interviewer]

So Was there anyone that you did close a book on that you checked for sure. Go on, give us some names.

[Peter Kenyon]

Less about the money, but more about the overall environment. Was Ronaldino where as great a player he was, he would have joined us and probably disrupted what United was, which was fundamental. A team. Yeah. The whole process around David being moved out was, again, David had done this incredible job to the outside world, was still on his way up to Alex. We had the best. Okay.

[Interviewer]

And what he seen that would indicate that.

[Peter Kenyon]

I think one of the things that Alex did better than any of anybody else I've seen is understand what United needed to be as a team, and to that point, completely ruthless to that individual.

[Interviewer]

Because there's a story, like Bobby Charlton tells it in, in his book, that he'd spotted that when Beckham scored a goal, he was running away from his teammates and not towards them because he believed it made a better shot of him. On the back page of the paper.

[Peter Kenyon]

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, I've read that. And, and there was this thought that, you know, what, what David was doing was dropping back, not being as attacking and therefore, you know, again, in, in. In Alex's view, we'd had the best of him. There was a lot of noise around at that time as well, with, you know, David and, and, and where he was going in life.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

And that didn't fit. Sit well with what United was. You know, a United player, was 100, focused on United, no distractions. Right. Not allowed type stuff. And, and the world, the world of football was changing.

[Interviewer]

But, but can I ask you about that? Because you're in that position there where you. You've got the biggest commercial footballer on the planet and you've got a coach saying to you, no, no, he's not. He's like, we've had the best out of him. How do you mediate in a situation like that?

[Peter Kenyon]

First of all, he's a better. He's better at managing a team than I am. Football team. Right? Okay. His view on the players is what's important, not my view on the players, and it's understanding those two very different roles. So when I got the call about that, my answer to him is, are you sure? What you can't do is fall out. You can't, you know, throw your toy in the corner and not play him. All right? So you've got to play the game because it's David Beckham. We've got to create a market, okay? And financially, we're not going to take a. A reduction on him. Because you're not happy with him. So we've got to work. We've got to work together on this if you want. Didn't matter whether it was David or anybody else. It was that close relationship in terms of we wanted to give Alex the team that could win the league, the cup, the European cup, every year.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yeah, Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

And as I say, he had to be a critical part of that, so it didn't really matter. I mean, that's not to say he wasn't challenged. That's a, you know, not sure we can do that this year. You might have to do that. But he was always involved in every player. He was always critically a critical component in getting a player to come to us because he sold the club better than anybody else.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

He was brilliant with the people around the player. You know, he was incredibly honest. Like, nobody gets a guarantee that you're going to play here. We're giving the opportunity to play here type approach.

[Interviewer]

Can you give us an example of who we would have had that conversation with?

[Peter Kenyon]

Ronaldo? 17.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

And in fact, that was. That was probably the one. The one exception that I was aware of were we'd been out in the US Our final game coming back from a pre season was in Portugal to open up the stadium.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

We had done a deal with the club that we would take him.

[Interviewer]

But before the game.

[Peter Kenyon]

Well, yeah, the weeks before.

[Interviewer]

All right.

[Peter Kenyon]

Yeah. And this was part of the agreement that we would go such stadium, open it up pre Portugal, and. And he could stay there for 12 months because that was probably the best way of developing him.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

Half time we get a call. I mean, he run riot with us. Okay. Now it's preseason and everybody's been away for three weeks, but he still run riot. And you never get a call from anybody at halftime, apart from Listam. And it was like, we got to take this boy back with us.

[Interviewer]

This was Alex phoning you.

[Peter Kenyon]

Yeah. And, you know, walked in the dressing room and it's Keenan Giggs is saying, this guy's ripping us apart. I mean, we can't leave him here type stuff. And actually, that was the one exception in all where I stayed and renegotiated the deal.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

And part of that renegotiation was he would get some games in his first season. Now, he finished up playing more than those games on merit, but that was a sort of. He saw. I think he saw the potential of what he could be at United.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

And, and, and again, I mean, the development of him during that period of time is history.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

And that's where Alex was, you know, brilliant in terms of. He was tough, he was stubborn at times, but he was always pragmatic. And he was ruthless. Right? He was ruthless. I. E, E. What's the most ruthless

[Interviewer]

decision you've ever seen him make?

[Peter Kenyon]

I, I, you know, I, I think, I think he's made several. Right. I mean, some posts I met when Keane went, yeah, Keane would have walked through a wall. And then once you've done your job, it's onto the next one. But, you know, David was ruthless. David did not want to play for anybody else but Manchester United. Genuinely, he loved the club. It had been part of his life. It was everything a part of his life. So, you know, to get David to move was not about moving for more money. He didn't want to go. And it was basically confronting David. With David, you're not going to play for your Manchester United again. That's the reality. And, and that was, that was, that was a decision that was taken fundamentally by Alex, supported by the board completely.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

And, and that was one of the, think the, the ways that United worked best because once the decision had been taken, it was a joint decision that just then got executed.

[Interviewer]

But how do you prepare yourself to have a conversation like that? Because you're wielding the axe. How, like, how do you prepare

[Peter Kenyon]

Honestly? I think you've got to be truthful. It took a decision that, look you. Not. I mean, the final call I had was one Sunday afternoon. I was barbecuing. They were barbecuing in London and it was like, david, it's over. And we're asking you to look at joining Real Madrid not, you know, not Bolton. Right. I mean, I know the, I know the Madrid guys inside out. I said the only, the only team that I think you can go to leaving Manchester United is Madrid, if I'm being honest. You'll be well looked after, you'll be playing with superstars, you'll be in for trophies and, you know, they'll pay you more than we are. I mean, I'm not being funny, but, but more importantly than that, it's over here.

[Interviewer]

And what was his reaction?

[Peter Kenyon]

I mean, tough, right, because he didn't want to leave. And I think it's that honesty. I think it's confronting difficult situations in a way that is respectful and honest and open and, and I think, you know, the big teams, the high performing teams, are honest with each other.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

You know, they're tough. It's a tough environment.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

And everybody's calling everybody else out. It's not just a senior management with employees, employees calling employees out. You know this. Whilst there isn't has to be a structure, it's really fluid when it comes to solving problems.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

It's like collective problem solving. And it's not all top down by any stretch. It's everywhere in the business, I think, really saying if we're going to win. And sport is pretty brutal at determining whether you win or lose once or twice a week. Right. It's not the stock market every quarter or whatever this is. And. And sport means something to people. That's the other big difference.

[Interviewer]

What's the most brutal bit of feedback that you ever gave to Alex? Then?

[Peter Kenyon]

There's always attention.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

And I think you got to make sure it's a healthy tension.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

Because you don't see eye to eye all the time. And there are times where you say, look, we can't do that, which sometimes means you can't do that. Okay. And Alex is not a person who doesn't like not doing what he wants to do.

[Interviewer]

Yep.

[Peter Kenyon]

Yeah. So that's very different walking into that environment than the previous 10 years where I run a business which is effectively, you know, my business that we were building into a global brand.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

This, this is, this is one of the much respect to guys who, you know, I had to manage him.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

And he was much more powerful than I was.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. So give us some tips on how did you manage him.

[Peter Kenyon]

Well, again, I think it's like, I'm not going to try and do your job.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

You're here to do this and we better be honest about that. And I'm here to do this. And if we get that right, you'll be more successful, I'll make you more successful, you'll earn more money, we'll win more trophies. It's whatever the mechanisms are, but we've both got a part to play and I guarantee if this role's not here or I'm not here, you'll be less successful. Right. And joined in 96 left in 2004. And I think it was a pretty successful period.

[Interviewer]

Just a bit.

[Peter Kenyon]

Okay. We took, took the business private, away from the public market because it was the right thing to do for Manchester United. We brought the Irish in who were good owners. And during that period of time, you know, we built Carrington, which was first of its kind. We extended Old Trafford so it didn't, didn't have leaky roofs and all those types of things. We gave in the, the money and the armory to build four teams Three teams in that period. Yeah. And it was critical to that success, but we always provided the sort of money and environment to achieve it. And I think that's a good example. It's, you know, success in the, in the sports or a business is never down to one person.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

It's. It's this collective top talent that come together, which is like a DNA. It's not, you know, the best doesn't mean that you're best collectively.

[Interviewer]

Yep. Were you ever concerned, you know, you mentioned the Irish coming in The Kilmore, the McManus and Magnier. Were you ever concerned about the personal friendship that Ferguson had with them and because of what happened subsequently when they fell out?

[Peter Kenyon]

Well, it developed. I mean, it wasn't, you know, it wasn't there. It wasn't part of the decision making as to getting them versus somebody else. It was the right thing to bring new ownership in.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

And I think overall that there were good owners for that period of time.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

And I think ownership is such a critical part of whether a team's successful or not. So I think they were a real contributor to the success of United in that period. Right. I really do. Because let the management get on with it. You know, I was CEO. Alex remain the manager. But were you role in that? I think not. No, not at all.

[Interviewer]

You know, because obviously we talk about this trilogy.

[Peter Kenyon]

Yeah, not at all. No, not at all. Because they were, they were. They bought into it on the basis it was a professional. It was a business decision for them to do that. Not that they were friends of Alex's. I mean, they were really smart people.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Peter Kenyon]

There were businessmen who love sport and love what they do in horse r racing. So, you know, there was some relationship there, but it, it did not color One eye auto in terms of. They weren't involved in the day to day running of the business. They wanted business to be successful. They wanted to, you know, the business to be worth more when they sold it than when they bought it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

And we delivered on that. So I wasn't concerned about that. What was concerning was the fallout between them and you know, that wasn't a great time and you know, there's some tough conversations that I had to go on about that.

[Interviewer]

Would you.

[Peter Kenyon]

Well, because, because look, I mean, it's like everyone else. The brand of Manchester United is worth a lot of money.

[Interviewer]

Yep.

[Peter Kenyon]

Right. I mean, talk about IP value and therefore the way that our employees. And that was that that's not just the people who take the tickets. Alex is an employee yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

He had to understand that these are important, these are investors in the club. The way we, you know, we don't do those types of things that bring us into disrepute, either with a fan base or investors or things like that. So, yeah, it caused some. It costs some reasons for. You know, you've got to confront these things and deal with them. And it got resolved in the end.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

As it always would do. But again, I think what. What you learn from that is sport matters to. Matters to so many people.

[Interviewer]

Yep.

[Peter Kenyon]

Right. I mean, it sells new papers front, middle and back. Right. So you've got to understand that if you're operating in sport, you've got more visibility.

[Interviewer]

But do you feel that because we talk about the Rocker Gibraltar dispute between Kilmore and Sir Alex Ferguson, did you feel that Sir Alex, in that case, sort of misrepresented or misunderstood that he was an employee here because that had the potential to bring Manchester United into disrepute?

[Peter Kenyon]

Yeah. And I think this is where things get blurred, don't they?

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

Because we're naive if we think that sports businesses are just like normal businesses. Okay. So understanding that environment, understanding that there are things you would do in a normal business that you'd never do in a sports business because of the visibility, you got to be. You got to be hypersensitive to it.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

I mean, if I go back to that period, if we did one little thing, it was everywhere, you know, we had our shares frozen, you know, two times because we made an announcement which the Mail said. You know, we went before the phone, the way we presented it, the Mail said, united will be doing its own TV and showing its own games. Share price will go up next minute. Share price, you know, frozen. Like, what are you doing? So we had to, you know, so it was not that we'd done anything wrong, it was just the way it was portrayed.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

In the newspapers. So I. You live in an environment like a fishbowl, and that does have an impact. That does mean you've got to be hypersensitive. That does mean got a little problem. It gets explored. So you're constantly. I think we were constantly. We were the hottest ticket in town.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

Right. Which was great for so many things and periods where it wasn't that great and you had to deal with it.

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[Interviewer]

That dispute opened the door to the Glazers that bought a small stake and increased it at that time.

[Peter Kenyon]

Yeah, I think, I think, unfortunately what it is, I think inadvertently that probably brought the Irish tenure to an earlier end than it could have done.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right, yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

Now, I'm not linking one to the other, that'd be unfair to do, but that did lead ultimately to Irish selling on for the right reasons. They made some a decent return on their investment and brought in Vegas. I'd left by then, so, no, I

[Interviewer]

want to move on to. To the next trilogy that. That you became a part of. Roman Abramovich and Jose Mourinho. Yeah, tell us about that, about those two relationships.

[Peter Kenyon]

So the first one was with Roman. Never been to a football game. Came to qualifying. Real Madrid, Old Trafford, the four, three.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yeah, yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

Which is probably one of the best football games ever. It was a typical Wednesday night Champions League. Real Madrid, like, you know, he could have, if he had160,000 seats, you'd have sold it.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

And he comes his first ever football game. Didn't know who he really was. I mean, it's quite interesting. I think he was the fifth richest man. And this guy turns up and he was nice, he was polite, watched the game after the game, came over and thanked us very much for letting him come in. Best night of his life. Right, right. You know, first hurdle was he wasn't wearing a shirt and tie, he was wearing jeans and a jacket. Getting him in the boardroom was a bit, you know, tasty. Anyway, we overcame that, we came that and that was fine.

[Interviewer]

Like, how do you overcome that? Like, how do you tell the 50 richest man in the world that he's not smart enough?

[Peter Kenyon]

We let him in. It was more selling it to my other directors and. Yeah, no, no, I think that's it. I think that started the romance of him wanting to get into football.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Okay.

[Peter Kenyon]

Yeah, genuinely, he said, this is the best night of my life. I've never seen anything like this.

[Interviewer]

So was he interested in buying Manchester United?

[Peter Kenyon]

No, I don't. No. I mean that. That was never the approach. That was never the approach. And over, over, I don't know, three or four months, I had dinner with him a Couple of times. I mean, literally talking about football, right. Like, who owns it? Well, you know, not everything's owned. You know, FIFA, UEFA Premier League type stuff. How does it run? First time was very generic, like, how does this thing run? Second one, clearly another level of understanding. And then sort of third one was, I got a call on that. He said, I just want to let you know that I'm buying Chelsea in the morning. Which was literally the week before it was probably going to go into administration.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

And. And he said, next time you're in London, can you come and can we have dinner? Right. Which I did. And. And then he said, you know, look, I don't run my businesses. I've looked around. I think you're the best. Come and join me. I want you to come and set it up for me, you know? And it was. I mean, it was interesting because people don't leave United.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

Right.

[Interviewer]

But you've been there. At 68, you're a Boyd United fan.

[Peter Kenyon]

Yeah. And the truth is, if you're going to run the business properly, you can't always be a fan.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

You got to be objective. You've got to be doing things that is not about fandom, it's about running it as a business.

[Interviewer]

And did you ever lose that, like being a fan at United?

[Peter Kenyon]

No. I think anybody who's involved in the day to day running of a. Of a sports team, it's different. You're not there as a fan. Right. You know, when the whistle goes, there's a whole raft of all things you have to deal with. You can't go to the pub and talk about the game. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so I think I won't say you enjoy it less. You see it through a different lens, if I'm being honest. And you need to. I think. I think really being objective is a critical part of success.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yeah. All right.

[Peter Kenyon]

I honestly believe that. And I think that's. That's one of the things that you've got to inject in the management. You're here to. You're the best marketeer.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

Don't get colored by, you know, the product.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

We're. We're really lucky because we see the product that other people pay for, we go and watch it. We see on, you know, these people that people would queue hours for to meet. We sat down in the canteen with them.

[Interviewer]

Y.

[Peter Kenyon]

Right. Never take it for granted, but never lose. Become a fanboy. Right.

[Interviewer]

You decide that. So Abramovich is seducing you. He's telling you that you're the best in the business.

[Peter Kenyon]

Yeah. I mean, you know, and, and basically it was about, you know, he doesn't run his businesses, so he wants the right people to run his businesses.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

I mean, my point of view was I generally wasn't looking, but I guess looking back, what I really enjoy is building, not maintaining.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

And it sounds silly that you could be maintaining Manchester United. I don't mean it in that sense. But, you know, when I, when I decided to leave, the board said, you know, who should, who should take over? And I said, David, you know, David Gill was brilliant. You know, he'd been number two. He joined United before I did.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

He understood the club and the club. It wasn't that build that we did over that eight year period. It was a different type of role.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

And David was there, what, 15 years after me, like. So what attracted me about that was not, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't. I hadn't fallen out with United. I wasn't, didn't believe in it. It was this opportunity of taking the football club in the Premier League in London with a billionaire that had the resources to do what you needed to do. And a lot of that was, was understanding what he wanted to achieve.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

And it not being a hobby. And then in two years time, he was bored.

[Interviewer]

So what were the kind of questions you were asking him then before you decided to sign off?

[Peter Kenyon]

So I think the strength of any business is, you know, what are you in it for? What are the real objectives? Setting a real North Star.

[Interviewer]

And what was his answer to that?

[Peter Kenyon]

So he said, I wanted to be the best club in Europe. I said, that's fine. I said, so two things I'm going to tell you, that's time and money.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

Right. And that's really important to understand. And so I don't want you thinking that this can be done in a year or two years because you've got all the money. Right. We haven't got the people, we haven't got the facilities, we haven't got a strategy. We've got some good players. Gets you nowhere, fundamentally.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

And so I think I tested him on his commitment. I wasn't going to leave United where I could be there for 15 years, to move into something that you could be there for three months.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

[Peter Kenyon]

And, and there's a solitary lesson for me in that, and that is if you're going to join somewhere, look at the ownership group.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yeah, Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

Because they are the guiding light of principles in terms of their objectives, their Longevity, their values, you know, they all might be good, but they might. We wanted to do it in a way that doesn't fit you.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yeah, yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

So I did spend quite a bit of time and I said, okay, I'm going to take those two things, which is become best club in Europe and time, and play it back to you in terms of what I believe it needs doing. So I went back with him with a, a five year play.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

Because that's what I believed it would take.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

And, and a number. And his first reaction is, I don't want to wait five years for it. Success. I said, no, no. To be the best club in Europe, you have to become the best club in England.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

And then you qualify to be European. And that's what it is. And I mean, I think the immortal advice he gave me, which I think I use a lot because I think it's relevant, particularly in sport, is after much deliberation, he said, okay, I understand that we need to build this and the sort of staging blocks. I understand the money, which was not insignificant. So if I give you that money, let's be successful because then I look smart. If I spend that money and I'm not successful, I look stupid. And don't make me look stupid.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

And I think there's a lesson for any investor in sport or any CEO who's working in sport. That's great advice. That's great advice. Because investors don't want to look stupid.

[Interviewer]

But you've spoken about trust being like that secret sauce.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

When did you trust him and what was it that made you trust him?

[Peter Kenyon]

I mean, so if I look back now, I think he's been one of the best owners of Premier League football since Premier League was formed.

[Interviewer]

Yep.

[Peter Kenyon]

Okay. And why do I say that is two things. Three things really. When I first went to my first Premier League meeting, there was 18 owners and two seals. That was myself and Rick Parry from Liverpool. And because I was there as, as a plc, I was effectively, I was speaking for the ownership group and Rick was there speaking for the ownership group of Liverpool. So for all intents and purposes, there was 20 owners in the room. Right. If you go today, you're lucky if there's five or three. Right. So we run it.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

He kept to his, to his commitment that he wanted me in there to run it. That doesn't mean that we always agreed because we didn't. But whatever we agreed on, we came out and executed. And that meant there was honesty. There was, yeah, argument, want of a better word. Because the requirement was to get Chelsea to be the best club in Europe. So that. That was one thing. Second thing is it was like he put the money in and then one of the things we talked about way up front was he convert that into equity so the club would not be in debt. Because debt kills football clubs.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

Yeah. And he came to games, he was interested. He understood the temperature of the crowd.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

The reason he got involved in the first place was that first night he saw what this thing could be.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yep.

[Peter Kenyon]

He fell in love with, you know, we lost and everybody stood up and clapped because of the performance of a player or the team. Right. It was so special. And I think that's what he dreamed of and this relentless pursuit of excellence. And I think there's another thing. You know, these guys that are as rich and there's a lot of them these days, and a lot of those guys are coming into sport.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

They can do anything they want every day of the week. Right. Put it your money into sport doesn't mean you're successful. Right. So I think there's this like, challenge.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

There's like excitement. Because it's not straight line. If you put the money he put into Chelsea in one of his other investments, it'd just be a straight line return.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

Because that's what it is. You can have the best team. It loses on a Saturday. As frustrating as that is, it happens with regularity.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, of course.

[Peter Kenyon]

Doesn't happen over the season. The best team wins over the season. But on any given day, and I think the Premier League more than anything else, that's what keeps it like the best league in the world.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. But then we're talking very much around, like, your role is managing these billionaires with huge egos. Now, we've had people that, from that period at Chelsea that would speak about Ancelotti's term thunderbolt defeats, where Abramovich would struggle to countenance how Chelsea could get beat to Wigan, for example. And there'd be conversations with the head coach there.

[Peter Kenyon]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Would you tell us about how you manage the ego of an owner in a situation like that?

[Peter Kenyon]

Well, I think it started by. I think it started by. In week one. And again, you know, we had a plan. One of the plans was one of the key employees is the coach.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yep.

[Peter Kenyon]

Okay. He's the face of the club. In. In, you know, it's not. It's not. It's not Roman. It's not me. He's the first of the club. And it was. It was Claudio. Okay. And Claudio's super. But having worked with Ferguson, Ferguson is a winner, right? I don't care what he does, he's the winner. You know, he went into racing one, if he went into building, he'd be the best builder, right? That's what he is. So what he gave. What Ferguson gave me is understanding what winning means. The character you need to be, the commitment, the relentless, you know, achievement, the. You win, you go again. You don't. You have. You might have a night off, you might have a beer, but next morning you're on to the next one. Yeah, Claudio was not that, right. So, you know, started Simon. The Wednesday we spent time together. I was meeting Roman on the Thursday. One of the commitments was we were going to have a train ground. I mean, Chelsea in 2004 again, didn't have a full time doctor, didn't have a training ground, couldn't train on a Thursday because we used the university, right, Playing fields, right? So we said, we'll have a commitment to go to train ground. So I think the Thursday we'd spent in a helicopter, going round in a circle. Yeah, well, we found Cobham. He thought that was too far. I said, it's not too far, right? We can't buy Regent's park, we can't buy hydraulic. I think it became Wimbledon or Cobham, right? Anyway, Cobham was it. So we did that Friday, we're having dinner. How's your week? I said, we're gonna. We've got to change Carlos, not council. Got to change Ranieri, Claudio. And he said, what do you mean we've got? So I said, he's not going to get us where we need to get to.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

All right.

[Peter Kenyon]

Anyway, we then went on this incredible run, right? Gets a semi final of Champions League, second in the league, and as this goes on through a season, it's like, oh, what are we going to do, Claudio? I said, we're going to change him.

[Interviewer]

You never wavered.

[Peter Kenyon]

And he said, well, what if we win? What if we win the league? I said, we change him. What if we win the Champions League, we change him. And I think. I mean, I think this sent him into a bit of a spin, if I'm being honest, because it was like the preeminent question, like, have you changed your mind this week?

[Interviewer]

So Goban Abramovich is shocked by your ruthlessness.

[Peter Kenyon]

Yeah, I think he. I think he just didn't equate to what was happening, right. And. And I said, look, the bottom line is we could win, right, next year, we could get relegated. That's not what we're building here. You know, you don't become the best club in Europe by winning and relegation. That's the reality. So it's a bigger long term play and I genuinely believe that. And, and the only reason I knew that was not that again. Claudio was, was. Was really good, but he wasn't at the level that I've been used to.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yep. Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

Alex was my benchmark of what you need to win. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Y.

[Peter Kenyon]

And he fell way short of that. And again, this is not against Claudio. It. You know, Claudio was brilliant with the press.

[Interviewer]

What were you seeing that was different with Claudio and Ferguson?

[Peter Kenyon]

Decision making. And he got called, he got nicknamed Tinkerman.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

The. The players, the. The clarity of messaging to players. Right. You could be the striker and you got a. Scored a hat trick. He still pick you up on the things that you didn't do. Yeah. I mean, tangibly players would come in and like, I'm in for it today.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

And you've won the game.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

It's that, it's that attention to detail. It's that relentless pursuit of excellence.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

Which Clydo just didn't have. And I thought, look, if we've got. We had some good players. And again, Ferguson said to me one day, which is brilliant, he said, look, you know, you need to understand that until you've won, you don't know what it's like to win. Once you've won, you never want to lose. And I didn't really understand what that meant at United.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

I really understood what it meant at Chelsea. And the reason for that is, if I look at. If I looked at the team, I mean, we had an incredible team and didn't really win anything at Chelsea before 2004. We had the odd win there, the odd win there, but we had check, we had Terry, we had Lampard.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

We brought Drogba in. And so what I was looking for as a coach was somebody who got all that skill set that Ferguson had. So when you said, you know what, what have you got? Common. They were really like. They had a different style.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right. Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

They're a different age group. They had a different coaching technique. Completely different. But those two guys got on with each other because the fundamental is wide. The same.

[Interviewer]

What Alex and Josie.

[Peter Kenyon]

Alex and Josie.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

And that's what we needed to inject winning into the team. So I knew what I wanted. I didn't know what he was like. I knew it wasn't what we'd got.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Sponsor Voiceover]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

I mean, that's the Reality. And when we got Jose, from day one, in fact, I took him England, England were in a camp and I got special dispensation to get the Chelsea players out for half an hour to introduce him to Jose. And he made them all bigger than what they were.

[Interviewer]

Go on.

[Peter Kenyon]

The way he talked about them, the way he talked to them, the way he was going to play them, the role they would play in building Chelsea to be big European team. I mean, you asked John Terry, Frank Lampard, Joe Cole, these guys physically grew. Okay. And at that point I knew this guy was. We'd made the right decision. I mean I knew it before, but just to see that reaction, yeah, like my management ability in a different way than Alex, but the same characteristic could get these guys walking through a wall. Right. Utter belief. And so that was one decision. And the second decision was again, it was based around United. There is no way that we were going to have another 25 year manager. Right, Wenger? So Jose became the first one of the next breed, right? Yeah, he was one of one when he came and then, you know, Klopp followed and pep forward and etc. But at that point there was Ferguson and others in his wake, if I'm being honest. Yeah, there's. There was Arsen who done a great job. I mean again, he changed the sport when he came in and Jose came and changed the sport when he came in. And we decided that we're going to have a different format because the format was when you change manager, everything changed. And there was another seven or eight people come in and it was another culture. And we said what we're going to do, we're going to change the manager. So we're going to build the culture that remains. So everything outside of the coach and perhaps one or two assistants was the clubs, which, which was a real strategic direction because again, culture is the hardest thing to build. And the way that, you know, certainly the way we didn't build it thinking that we'd have a manager a year. But. But the success of one of the big successes of Chelsea was 20 trophies in 19 years. The structure, people fitted the structure.

[Interviewer]

Yep.

[Peter Kenyon]

Or didn't. And, and all that back room, all that medical, all that analytics, all that academy piece was the clubs and didn't disappear and yet to start building again.

[Interviewer]

So what was the. How would you articulate the culture that you were looking to build?

[Peter Kenyon]

Well, again, I think this winning culture, I mean, I think people didn't understand that two years before Josie joined us, he hadn't lost a game at home. He then went two years with us without losing a game at home. Nobody'd done that.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yeah, right.

[Peter Kenyon]

I mean, that goes back to the days where, you know, Liverpool was a fortress, you know, the badge, walking out onto the pitch intimidated people. Right. People came to us not thinking neither could win.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yeah, yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

And why would you.

[Interviewer]

Would you see that in the tunnel?

[Peter Kenyon]

Yeah, yeah. You know, the psychology of norms is beaten Chelsea in three years. Three and a half years, whatever.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

It's a factor, Art. Players were just bigger for it. They were just up for it. One of his skills was incredible, was. It was like chess. I think he understood the moves. So if they made a substitution, he'd make one pretty quickly to nullify that substitution. He'd know how the others played, he'd know how they would substitute, he'd know how they would form. So his ability to look at his game, not only from his team, but the opposing team, was way in advance than anything I'd seen. And look, I think. I think that became that. That delivers a certain type of football. Okay.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

And when you haven't won anything and you start winning, people love it because they love winning. But I think there was a building sort of feeling then, this is not exciting because we'd won, because we got trophies. Suddenly it's the way we play, it becomes important.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

But, you know, Jose was just like. Ferguson was so critical to the success and building of what Manchester United was. Josie, when he. What he did and the legacy he left.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yep.

[Peter Kenyon]

Lasted way longer than his tenure.

[Interviewer]

So how did it come to end?

[Peter Kenyon]

I mean, it was. It was. I think it was that. And again, Jose. Jose coined the phrase the Holy Trinity, where it was easy, it was hard, but it was. The decision making was easy. It was Roman, me and him.

[Interviewer]

And how often would you guys get together?

[Peter Kenyon]

Oh, regular. Not regular. I mean. I mean, I'd see Josie every day. Roman, I'd see him around every game.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

Sometimes he'd go to training. So there was just a. There was just this building of that we're all building this thing together to become what it needs to be. Right. It's fantastic. Again, I think there was then certain dynamics. There were certain. So going back to first time I saw Roman, he knew nothing about football. Two years in, he knew a lot. He started to know a lot about football.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

So started to have an opinion. Right. An incredibly smart person. And again, I think he became the best ownership in Premier League football and he became certainly the most knowledgeable, genuinely.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right, right.

[Peter Kenyon]

Because he was interested in it. He watched it. He came to games when he wasn't there. He was watching it.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Peter Kenyon]

He got really into it and interested. But as a consequence of that, then, you know, he started to have opinions and he's the owner, so that's fine. And he's putting a lot of money in. And. And then these. These things started to creep in in terms of, you know, we win one nil, we need. And then put a bus. Can we not. We should have won three nil, because we're about right. And. And, you know, those types of things in. In their own right. It's not an issue. That's fine.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

But you got j. The best coach in the world at that time. You know, we won the Premier League first time in 50 years, in his first season.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Y.

[Peter Kenyon]

Never been, you know, a special one. So again, you know, he. It ended early, right? That's the reality. And it ended early, you know, and it wasn't that he. He got. He got fired. It was. It was. Joseph came to me. We were doing a. We're doing a cinema launch. We. We got a. A film about Chelsea. And it was a night, you know, the big reveal. So the whole team was coming out and we met in the Met. In the house club. And Jose said, pete, get me out of here, will you?

[Interviewer]

What happened for him to ask that?

[Peter Kenyon]

I think. I think he would look at. If you look at George's tenure, it's not 10 years, is it?

[Interviewer]

Never is. Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

Right. So it's not all one way. This isn't. This is. Again, he's a builder. He's dynamic. You know, he's got his own style, which is not easy.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yeah, okay.

[Sponsor Voiceover]

And.

[Peter Kenyon]

And that's all great. And. But I think it is. It was sort of coming to an end. And I think both. All of us, the three of us all saw it.

[Interviewer]

But was there ever a meeting where you thought, I can see this starting to unravel her?

[Peter Kenyon]

Yeah, I think that it didn't happen on that night. The event happened on that night. And Josie sort of said, pete, can you get me out?

[Interviewer]

But tell us about the event that you.

[Peter Kenyon]

I don't think there was one. There wasn't. There wasn't this, you know, explosion. There wasn't this big argument that didn't implode. It was this gradual changing of the style that Roman wanted.

[Interviewer]

But when he's coming and saying, yeah, it was a good one, nil, but why wasn't it three? How was Mourinho responding in that moment?

[Peter Kenyon]

Again, I think initially explanatory and then as these things went on, so. So it is confrontational. Right? What you're asking me that for? I've got three points. We're top of the league.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

Right. And look, I mean, when he left, so that night I said, do me a favor, course of the film premiere, I'll stay behind, meet me back here. And we sorted it that night. We sorted it that night. And George and I are really good friends. Him and Roman are very good friends.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

So what happened was, you know, and it proved not to be a problem for Jose because he went on to do other things and it proved to not be a. We went on to continue to win as Chelsea. So I think it run its course and probably in other clubs that it would have taken four years to run its course or five years, it took a bit shorter because again, it was a great environment. We created this environment of continual improvement. Right. The standards, it's always about beating them. It was about winning and then going again. And. Yeah, I mean, and again I come back to. There's lots of similarities. You know, great players, great organization, people working harder, people working smarter and just creating this environment of continual improvement.

[Interviewer]

So let's take those ingredients then and talk about your current role at last year, Williams.

[Peter Kenyon]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So you've, like, you're on record as saying that this is going to be one of the biggest comebacks in sports in history.

[Peter Kenyon]

Yeah, I think it is. And why. Why do I believe that is? Well, I think as an industry, F1 is on fire. It's, you know, it's quite interesting. So I look at this in two ways, really. One, if you look at any sports team, it's got a cost base. In football, it's 24 players or 30 players. And in F1, it's two cars and two drivers. Right. And the. The business has to produce more revenue than cost because then it becomes a proper business and becomes valuable. So the industry themselves, football, Premier League and F1 are both industries that are really strong in terms of its appeal. From an audience point of view, the difference between F1 is you go to. It's a truly global sport. You go to Singapore, you go to China, you go to America. In football, people come to you.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yeah, right.

[Peter Kenyon]

So football's global from an audience point of view and people watching F1s. People watching, but participating.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

And one of the big recent successes is Netflix. And what Netflix did is. Is show the world and particularly the, you know, the young fans that weren't fans before, but post Netflix or now the excitement of F1. The personalities in F1, the. The competition between teams in F1 is intense. Right. It's like no other sport. So. So the trajectory of the sport is phenomenal.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

When you go, it's like someone said, it's like 24 Super Bowls. Right. And it is. So when you go to town for four days, it's the hottest ticket in town. Whether that's government or that's business, whether that's entertainment, whether that's other sports, people want to be there, they want to be seen there. So it offers things that other sports doesn't. And then the experience of being there, where you literally sat, where the players are having lunch, I. E. The drivers, or you're in the garage, which is like being in the, you know, the changing room as the team are running out. It's. The experience you can give is just phenomenal. Now, to be a good. To be a good business, you know, there's limited ways of getting the revenue. One is performance of the team.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

So participation and then where you're finishing the table, and then the other one is commercial. And if rev becomes greater than cost, it starts to look like a good business. The advantage of Williams is its brand.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

It's. It's, you know, it's 50 years next year.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yep.

[Peter Kenyon]

Third longest team. There's been over 150 teams in F1 since it started and we're one of three who's been in 50 years or longer. So it's got this unbelievable heritage. It's got this value. It's an independent race team.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

So we're not selling. We're not selling drinks or cars or any other things. It's independent. And the values attributed to Williams, which are critically important to commercial partners or the ones that Frank Williams built. And we were a multiple world champion, so we got this great heritage of winning. We got this wonderful values that the Williams family built in terms of trust and honesty and openness. And then, you know, you've got the sport that's on fire.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

There's no relegation. So compared to my world, it's easy. Right. You know, you can blast. You get kicked out in here, you finish up 10th, but you're still there. Right. So the structure of the sport is good. And this, again, this all comes back to the quality of the ownership. So I knew the ownership group before they bought this. Really good people, really. They've got the money and resources to put in that is needed in sport.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right?

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

Most sports purchases buy it and haven't got enough money to Run it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

Right. It's number one failure. These guys are in it to take it right the way back to the top. They've got the resources to do that. And then the component that was missing was people. And we've invested really heavily in the right people to get us back to the top.

[Interviewer]

So you had that conversation with Abramovich that told you I want to be number one in Europe. And you're telling him it's time and patience. It's time and money that are your biggest barriers to that. When you spoke to the ownership. Well, like what were they telling you their, their aspirations are for Williams?

[Peter Kenyon]

Yeah. So they, they first of all, when, when they bought it, they told me and I, I said it's interesting.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

Because. And the reason it was interesting is they're very private, the very professional. And it's like, you know, sports an interesting market, you know, interesting product. When you, your overall. What you are is not that.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Yes.

[Peter Kenyon]

It's not an ego play. It's a business play. Really professional smart people from tech, smart people from engineering and see the value. And I spoke some. I basically said look, I don't think it's working like you plan. And they from day one always put the maximum amount of money in that they can because you know, we're all cost capped.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

But they clearly hadn't got the people right. And you know, so I, I looked at it and I said look, I think, you know, you've got some of the wrong people. And, and, and that's, that's again where you lean into people, make the difference.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

Right. So bringing, and unfortunately you have to move people out to bring people in.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

But bringing James Vowles in, who's. Who represents. Right again, the face.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

Yeah. A different generation of tp. Yeah. And understands the sport. There's taught us. Number two.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

Experience winning at the highest level, multiple world championships and him being the face of recruiting a lot of other people who are great at what they do. Not just from F1, but from other industries to complement it. Because it's, it's skill sets.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yep.

[Peter Kenyon]

Is what we will. What will allow us to win races in 28. And it's a long term play. Right. Again, it was understanding that this isn't an overnight play.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

I mean if you think football, you know, if it all goes bad in football, I can spend a lot of money and change the team.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

You don't do that in building two world class racing cars.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

So it is about processes and it is about procedures and it is about getting a leap up in tech, which we believe is one of the advantages we will have. We'll get back to a leader and then fundamental, having the right people. And that's what we've been doing in the last two and a half, three years. And it's that, that will get us on track. It's not about do we win this season, do we win this race? You know, sport kicks you, you, you can't say, you know, we're the best team, but you can still lose.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

That's what sport does for you. Okay? That's why people keep coming back to it. That's why life, sport, there's no substitute for it. So what we're building is a next world champion will be a multiple world champion. There's a period where that will happen. We've invested the maximum in money getting the right people and it's that confidence that, and we've got this wonderful heritage brand which, you know, there's 800 million fans in F1, there's 400 million that like Williams, either as a first team or as a second team, because it, it represents all the good things about the sport.

[Interviewer]

But you've been around winners. You said, Ferguson, you knew he was a winner. Mourinho, you knew he was a winner. Was there a moment with James Vowles where you came to that same conclusion?

[Peter Kenyon]

Yeah, I think Sir James is a very, very different character than Marino. Right. But he articulates, I think he's been on.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, we've had him on. Yeah, yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

He articulates what is needed, how transformation is important to him, how people are important to him, how you're changing the culture, not just the machine.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, but was there a particular moment where you've seen him in action and thought, this guy's got it?

[Peter Kenyon]

I see him in action every day. I mean, I work with him as part of the Executive Management Group and I, I, I, again, I think his experiences as, as Mercedes is invaluable.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Yeah, right.

[Peter Kenyon]

I mean, look, the reality is number twos don't always make good number ones.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

He's a good number one. And, and again, those characteristics, he's, he is a winner. He understands what's needed to win. He understands that, you know, it is more, it is, it is not just about building the right procedures and machines. It is about getting the right people and then getting those people collaborating to become a team. And that's what takes the time. That's what really takes the time. And I think the reason we'll be Successful is our ownership group, our management team are all on the same page.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Peter Kenyon]

It's not the honest thinking we can do it in two years. And the management group started saying, yes, we can build into to delay. It's like, no, we can't.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

We're on this trajectory to win rest in 28, to contend for world championship in 30.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Right.

[Peter Kenyon]

That is, you know, eight years after the investors longer, probably 10 years. That's that understanding of what's needed now. Everybody wants to do it quicker than that and if you can do that, that's great. But the great thing about the business, it doesn't do short term patches. That impacts the long term objective. That's really smart and that ultimately comes from the ownership because they want to do the right thing. That allows Williams to not win it once but become a multiple world champion just like it did under Frank.

[Interviewer]

Well, if there's anyone that knows anything about how do you win and then keep winning, I can't think of a better man than yourself.

[Interviewer/Interjector]

Pete.

[Peter Kenyon]

Thank you very much, Sabina. Because you're on it every day and there is this constant improvement, right. It's not. You never finish a day and think that's it is that constant. But I think we're building a really solid team. We're building a really solid team across all departments and yeah, and James leading that. I think we've got the right man to do it.

[Interviewer]

Brilliant. Well Pete, thank you so much for giving us your time and you your insights and so much wisdom. It's been honestly a real, real pleasure.

[Peter Kenyon]

Hope you've enjoyed it.

[Interviewer]

With you. I've loved it. Thank you.

[Peter Kenyon]

Thanks a.

[Interviewer]

Lot.

[Sponsor Voiceover]

Foreign.

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