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[00:04]
Jake
Hi, there. Welcome along to another episode of High Performance. So we first started this podcast over seven years ago, and since that time, myself and Damian Hughes have had the privilege of speaking to hundreds and hundreds of the most incredible people on the planet. It's fair to say that many of them have impressed us or intrigued us or at times, even changed us. But there's probably only a couple of handfuls of people that have left a genuine, indelible mark on the way that we live our lives and the way that we think. And we're about to talk about a man who did exactly that. And in so many ways. Damien, this is not an episode of High Performance that either of us would ever have wanted to record, is it?
[00:44]
Damian Hughes
Yes, Jake. This is a episode that we wish we weren't making. It's somebody that's been taken far too soon. It's the brilliant Nims Purger that we were lucky enough to speak to long before his fourteen Peaks documentary ever sort of catapulted him to worldwide renown. Unfortunately, this weekend, he was caught up in an avalanche in Pakistan, where his body was discovered.
[01:08]
Jake
Indeed. So the world loses a man who brought so much energy, so much light, so much optimism, so much positivity, and I am so eternally grateful that we had the opportunity to speak to him on High Performance. And we're going to share some of the clips from our conversation with Nims. Remarkably, Damien, it was, like, five years ago that we had the chance to speak to him. Time flies by, and I think some people. Some people might listen to this episode today and think, well, hold on, you spent an hour together five years ago, and, yeah, we kept in touch. But it's hard to explain quite why, when you record an episode of this show with someone, quite why you get that connection to them. Because it's not just. It's not just talking to them for an hour. Like we're asking them to open themselves up to us, we're opening ourselves up to them. And it's really interesting that we get a very deep, very intense relationship with someone very quickly when you have these kinds of conversations. And I think that's why both of us, you know, we've been exchanging messages over the weekend. I think that's why both of us were so deeply impacted, really, by. By the news as it emerged that Nims had sadly passed away on Broad Peak.
[02:16]
Damian Hughes
Yeah, well, you know that phrase that we frequently use, Jake, that nothing you do is neutral. Everything sort of either enhances an environment you go into, or it subtly erodes it. And I think what Nims was almost the perfect embodiment of somebody that just enhanced it, even when we did it remotely. His energy, his enthusiasm, his openness just was so endearing that you could tell why, as a member of the Special Forces, after he'd been a member of the Gurkhas, he'd been such a invaluable member of that team because he just made them better. And we got a small glimpse of it in that hour, of how he encouraged us to be better people, communicators and presenters. He has left an indelible mark on our lives. So, you know, heaven knows the impact he's had on his wife and his children and those that knew him for a lot longer.
[03:10]
Jake
And we're going to play some clips from the conversation and talk about them in just a moment. In some ways, Damien, I almost don't want to do this, because hearing his voice is almost the hardest thing, because you get reminded of the fact that it's not just the loss of his life, and we also must pay our tributes and our respects to the people that died with him on that mountain. But it's kind of the loss of this energy source. And I know the world is a poorer place without him, but the world is absolutely a richer place for having had Nim's Purger in it for the time that he was alive. What are your memories of. Of that specific day? Because it was obviously recorded from a distance. He was in Nepal. We were. You were at home. I was at home. I tell you my vivid memories when he said something, and I remember I stood up and put my arms in the air and went, you're just so inspiring. I just have this, like, memory of, like, I don't know, man. I remember. I remember skipping out here and saying to Harry and the kids, I've just recorded an episode that you need to listen to. Like, Seb was only five at the time, I'll tell you.
[04:11]
Damian Hughes
Well, there was three things for me. One was his repeated use of the word brother. You know what I mean?
[04:17]
Nims Purja
Yes. Brother.
[04:18]
Damian Hughes
Yes.
[04:18]
Jake
And I've used brother so much since.
[04:20]
Damian Hughes
Yeah. Because, I mean, how can you not respond to somebody coming up with such a. With such a. Like an intimate term for somebody that we'd never met?
[04:29]
Jake
It made you feel so good, didn't it, when he said it?
[04:32]
Nims Purja
Yeah.
[04:32]
Damian Hughes
The second one was that what I loved about him, when I've told people, is that when he was describing how he was preparing to join the sbs, the Special Forces, part of his training that he did was to sit and watch Only Fools and Horses. And when we asked him why, he was like, well, because I realized that I was gonna have to adopt the same sense of humor as the guys was gonna be in. He went. Because he said that you need to be the. Almost the anonymous figure. So he went, I have to do everything I can to assimilate. And part of that was, I need to get into the same sense of humor. What they're laughing at, I need to be able to laugh at. And to me, it was such a subtle but really insightful and clever way that the guy thought that that stood out. And then the final one was he used that line to us when he went to be world class at anything, depends on how long you're willing to be at it for. And I love that I've used that.
[05:25]
Jake
So you've used that, like every time we're on stage, you. You use that word and that line with people.
[05:30]
Damian Hughes
Yeah, because it captures so beautifully that. This was a guy that described how he failed his first attempt to join the Gurkha regiment, and then he went back a second time. Then he was the first Gurkha to become a member of the British Special Forces. Then he left there. And he'd never climbed mountains before he broke those world records. This was a guy that was constantly going out of his comfort zone and we were seeing the outcome. But he was at pains to say, listen, there's a process I've had to follow and I've been rubbish at it for a long time before I got excellent. And if that isn't a great definition of high performance, I don't know what is.
[06:06]
Jake
It's such a sad loss. Well, today we are absolutely privileged to say that Nim's joined us on high performance, and we're extremely proud that we can play you listening or watching this, some of the clips and some of the comments and some of the thoughts that he shared with us, because they are things that can be part of your life going forward from here.
[06:29]
Damian Hughes
Well, I did read, Jake, that in the sort of Sherpa Buddhist belief system, there's a belief that the soul takes 49 days after death to determine its next rebirth. So it sort of did. So hopefully we can put in a good word for Nims here and sort of going back and revisiting just what an incredible man he was, so that whatever he comes back as is, is well deserving of the impact that he left.
[06:56]
Jake
I love that. I love that. Well, let's. Let's go straight to a clip then from Nims Persia. Here he is, the late, great Nims Purger, sharing with us the importance of hope.
[07:09]
Nims Purja
And then it is as much like those little details as you got to pay attention now going into the mountain, as you said, like, hope is God. I'm not a really religious person, you know, I don't really believe in God. But then I keep saying hope is God because that's all what we have. Okay. As a human, if you imagine, let's say for my example, okay, if I'm in sbs, if I'm in a war or somewhere else, then when there's, if the bullets flying around and when it hits the fan, and if you are not like, hoping that you're gonna win this war, that's like you give up the battle already. And exactly. When you're climbing in the mountain, sometimes, you know, I was climbing it at 75 kilometer per hour wind speed, it's so freezing cold. But then if you just give up your hope that you're going to come alive from these big mountains, you're going to die. Because, you know, hope is what keeps us motivated. Hope is what it keeps us alive, you know, and that's what we have as a human.
[08:13]
Jake
I think it's a really important place to start near Damien, because I think if Nims taught us one thing, lived with one thing, and left us with one thing, it is hope. And I think the reason why that is such an important lesson for people is I think that we need hope when we're in that moment in life where the fact offers us absolutely nothing. Right? And the fact in front of Nims Purger was that nobody climbs 14 peaks at the speed that he does it. Nobody summits these mountains without oxygen time and time and time again. But he did those things despite the fact that there was no evidence that it could be done. So there might be people listening to this, knowing that they have a diagnosis that's frightening. A relationship that might be broken, a dream that might be falling apart. Maybe grief has changed the shape of everything. Maybe there are people listening to this, waking up, and they can't see a way forward. And I think what Nims talked about there, and we'll hear another clip about this in a moment, is the fact that the hope needs to be there when the moments aren't very easy, right? Because the hope doesn't kind of deny the pain. It doesn't ignore the reality or promise that everything's gonna be fine. But hope just says to you, like, this is not the whole story. You can rewrite something Here. And I think, as Nim showed us, hope, because hope was all he had at times, can give all of us the strength to take that one step when we can't see the entire journey, that just because life feels dark today doesn't mean the light has disappeared forever. And I think in some ways, hope is more important when we talk about Nims than ever before. Because he's no longer here.
[09:51]
Damian Hughes
Yeah, definitely. I mean, that whole topic of hope. I remember reading a book by a guy called Andrew. Remember reading a book by Andrew Rizighi called Hope, where he looks at the research on its importance in life in general, not just performance. But there was one study by a psychologist called Shane Lopez who said that hope accounts for about 14% in the variance of somebody's productivity in the workplace. There was another study that said for academic performance, hope was a more accurate predictor than somebody's intelligence or prior grades. The belief that things can be better tomorrow than they were today is critical for us as a species. And I think, again, for Nims, and the sort of message that he passed on to us is that sometimes when the night was darkest, it was his own internal light of hope that things were going to be better, that things were going to improve. That was such an inspiring example for it. And I think we can all. We can all take that and embrace.
[10:51]
Jake
Can also be very cruel, though, can't it, Hope? Because I don't know what you were doing over the weekend, but I was constantly refreshing my browsers. I was going on social media trying to get any news I could. And I was seeing this news that Nims GPS tracker had said that he'd moved after the avalanche. And I was sort of in my head, I was thinking, come on. Like, if anyone can Nims purge, I can. You know, this. I. I tell you, I was fully expecting. Fully expecting to hear the news that he was gonna be okay. Because he was the kind of guy that just gave you that feeling, you know, he gave you that feeling of invincibility. And I suppose it's another reminder that, you know, human life is so fragile.
[11:29]
Damian Hughes
Well, he wrote in his own book, I was reminded of it when the final news came through, that he said in his own brilliant book that nature doesn't care about your reputation, your age, your gender role, your personality. The mountain is entirely indifferent to who you are. And I think there's something there around. This was a man that knew and had that ultimate respect for nature and the power of it, you know? And I'd like to believe that as Horrendous as his passing is, he'd have been at peace with it. He knew. He knew what he was doing and he knew the risks that he was taking on every time that he did scale those mountains.
[12:05]
Jake
I hope so. So that's our first lesson from the great Nims Persia, which is that hope is the most important thing. And if you're listening to this, I think it's also important to remember that it's not just hope for us, it's hope for each other as well. I think we all know there are days when someone that we love can't deal with it themselves. And those days we have to carry the hope for them, remind people of who they are, you know, the fact that they've survived everything up until this point and so much of their story is still waiting be written. Yeah. He also gave us a great example, didn't he, Damian, about hope? I think we should probably share this story now.
[12:44]
Nims Purja
If you love what you're going to do, of course you got to work hard for it. You got to again commit. There will be so much like negative in his stuff. But then you got to think positive about everything. And just to give an example, I was on Everest in 2017, I was still in special forces and I was trying to break the world record for climbing in Everest, Lote and Makalo, which is the first, fourth and fifth highest mountain. And in process of doing that, when I went to Lotse, my oxygen were stolen. So just to give you an example, being oxygen stolen at Campo, at the death zone is. It's a crime. You work so hard, you have to check the weather forecast, you have to take those oxygen to put it over there. It's a mission. And literally when you went over there and your oxygen is not there, it is, it's gonna drown you. And many people will just get angry and they will just like blame on other people and they leave. But what I thought was, okay, Nims, come on, come on, there must be something. And what I said was okay, my oxygen was probably used for some emergency situation. Maybe someone is alive because it was, you know, somebody used it for rescue. That could be completely lie. But then I told my brain to believe in that positive thing and I was happy. Okay, you know, somebody's alive, maybe. But then sometimes you have to do it all. It's all about, you know, how you, you cope with the situation.
[14:07]
Damian Hughes
I mean, what a powerful story that is that, you know, you come to get your oxygen supplies and find out that they've been stolen. But the brain in a situation like that, Jake is what's. There's a great phrase I've been using recently called the cognitive miser. Your brain doesn't like being generous to other people with their descriptions or their explanation. So we tend to see the worst in a situation or believe it. Like what Nim said that somebody's stolen this. How could they do it? But what I love is the. The sheer force of his thinking, to actually try and see the positives in it, to believe that his oxygen had actually helped save somebody else's life, rather than let himself dwell in that bitterness and the anger and the negativity that. That most of us would have sort of succumbed to.
[14:51]
Jake
And by the way, if he can do it when he's faced with a moment that could literally kill him because someone has taken his oxygen, you and I can do it in our everyday lives. You know, this is a. This. This is a concept called reframing. Tom Grennan and loads of other guests on the podcast have spoken about it. You know, what benefit did it serve Nims at that moment to think I've been wronged? Zero. What benefit did it serve him to write a story as untrue as it might be, that his oxygen had saved someone's life? The benefit to him was huge. And it's a reminder for all of us to do this. You know, we can spend our lives getting bitter, twisted, wrapped up in what other people say, frustrated with other people's actions, but what benefit is that doing to us? So if you're listening to this now, the next lesson left for us from Nims Purger is that you are responsible for your reaction to the world. There's that great phrase, Damien. Life is 95% how you react to the 5% of things that happen. You know, it's not about what happens, it's about how we react to those things that happen. I want to play a clip now, which I think is really important. And this is all about the power of purpose, having something in your life that is so much bigger than you. I'll let Nims explain the importance of Project Possible.
[16:04]
Nims Purja
Sometimes I used to vision like, okay, Nims, there is all this painful. There's like so much suffering. But then what. What's going to happen when you finish the project? You can still kind of, you know, look yourself through this dark tunnel and you can see yourself on the other side. And that's what it gives you more kind of power. And as I mentioned on the book, like, I had a really good purposes that I believed why I needed to do this project. And being completely honest, if it was for myself and if it was for the name and fame, I would have never been successful in this project. It was, you know, that. That huge, you know, you needed something bigger than this. So when I left my job, my mom even told me, you know, she's very close to. To me, she's my inspiration. And she said, oh, Nims, because, you know, you are sending money every month and now you are doing this project because, you know, we. We are a burden to you. But I said to. To her, no, mom, because this project is way bigger than me, our family and all. And if I can sacrifice this for the bigger reason which I absolutely believed in, I think I can do it. There's a chance. And the reason was, yes, I love the mountaineering. I love the challenge. But more than that, I wanted to show the world in my way that nothing is impossible. I wanted to raise the name of the Nepalese climbers, and equally I want to raise the awareness about, you know, climate change and sustainable environment. So. And then these were the core pillars. But when I say core pillars, these are the bigger picture. But then inside that there is also layer. Because in all, these pillars cannot always keep you going. Then I used to think, okay, I cannot give up because I represent the best in the world, UK Special forces. I have no right to ruin their reputation by coming out loud and be a joker. Then I used to think, okay, I'm a Gurkha now. Then I should say, okay, I represent Nepalese climbing community. Then it goes into the circle and the cycle of everything else.
[18:02]
Jake
I love that idea. Damian of Nims having those core pillars where he says, right, I can't give up because I represent the best in the world, the special forces. I have no right to ruin their reputation by coming out loud and being a joker. Then I think, okay, I'm a Gurkha. Then I think, now I represent the Nepalese climbing community. All of us represent things far greater than ourselves. All of us represent our parents, our friends, our colleagues, our businesses, our legacy. And I just think it's a great way to think, isn't it? To have this idea that there's something so much bigger than us. It kind of, in many ways removes the ego from everything. And I think NIMH's got unfairly criticized for putting ego at the center of what he did. I think we do that naturally. When someone becomes famous and successful for something, it makes us feel better to say it must have been about ego. But I Don't believe it was. I believe that his purpose of being a climber representing Nepal mattered more than anything for him. That wonderful scene of him holding arm in arm with his fellow Nepalese Sherpas and singing the Nepanese national anthem as they summited, that's a reminder that it wasn't him striding out 20 yards in front of all of the other Sherpas. That was him putting Nepal ahead of himself. And I think that often was his energy source when times were hard.
[19:14]
Damian Hughes
Yeah, definitely. And again, that's been consistent with so many of the Special Forces guys that we've seen that they pride themselves on putting the team above the individual. So I have no reason to believe that it was about ego for him, that he was constantly lifting others up to where he went. There's a study, Jake, on finding a purpose. We don't have to scale the 14 highest mountain peaks in the world to find our own version of it. In 2019, there was a study of over 7,000 adults in America aged over 50, and it found that those with the lowest sense of purpose were roughly twice as likely to die during the four year follow up as those that said that they had a higher figure. There's other research that says those with a higher sense of purpose are about two and a half times more likely to remain free of Alzheimer's than those with a low purpose. There's another one that says that having a purpose reduces the risk of a heart attack by about 27%. So just sort of tapping into something that's bigger than ourselves, making ourselves seem as if we're putting ourselves in situations where we have almost like a duty or an obligation to represent something bigger than us. Like, what Nims was talking about is life enhancing as well as, you know, it puts life in our years as well as years in our life. And there's something really powerful to be said around being willing to try and find and discover that sense of what we're here for.
[20:41]
Jake
Really nice. But of course, at the same time, sometimes what we need to find is within us. It's not in the higher purpose, it's within us. And Nims also spoke about this. This idea that in life you have to create your own opportunity.
[20:58]
Nims Purja
My principle was, in everything what we do in life, you should never think about the second options. Okay, I'll give you an example. Okay. If you say that you're going to run a complete marathon, and if you're already thinking about giving up in like halfway, you're gonna give up. You don't have to think about giving up. If you can't do it, you can give up. It's just there, it's in your pocket. You just give up. You don't have to already plan to give up, you know, I mean, so I used to say, why, why refer to second options when you can plan on the, on the first option? And going into second option is always easier. It's always easier, but then it's easier doesn't mean it's right, you know, so that's what's kind of, you know, like my, my thought process. But then a key message here is Jake, you know, if you look where I came from, you know, a really poor, you know, Nepalese background, You know, we used to live in, in this, you know, you know, in this room where we had like chicken upstairs, you know, so there were chicken farming or, you know, and then having no flip flops to then joining the Guyakas. I failed my first attempt in the Guyakhas, but second time I made it through. Then going into Special Forces, you know, like driving submarines, doing some of the craziest stuff that people can't even imagine. You know, I know what I've done and probably few people know, but then even from that, to go and climb all these 14 highest mountain in the world that no one has ever imagined. And who I am now, I would like to say I'm pretty successful. But then looking back, I had nothing. I was underprivileged. You know, I had no, like, opportunities. But then I created opportunities. So for everybody else out there who feel like that they have no privilege or underprivileged or who feel like they don't have the opportunity, oh man, we create our own opportunity. You just have to work twice harder maybe. So that's a simple message that nothing is impossible as long as you believe it and as long as you want to do it.
[23:08]
Jake
I mean, I love the way that he ended that line there, Damien, where he said a simple message. Nothing's impossible as long as you believe it and as long as you want to do it. And obviously that was the title of his Netflix documentary that propelled him to superstardom. And it's so important for someone like Nims, who didn't come from privilege, didn't come from wealth, didn't come from opportunity to show us all what's possible. You know, when he says, you just have to work twice harder, maybe, I mean, it's something that people don't like hearing these days. I think often they feel like we don't all have the same opportunities. Therefore, we can't all be judged in the same way. But I think actually what Nims represented here was this idea that maybe that is the case, but also maybe we have far more control over the outcome of our lives than we want to admit. And I think it's become ever more that case, because I think excuses can be really helpful for people at times. It allows them to hide behind the fact that there must be another reason that they haven't achieved the things they want to achieve. And really what Nims was saying in that message is, hey, listen, no excuses, right? It's within. It's within, and you need to find it, mate.
[24:14]
Damian Hughes
That's such a powerful message. I think when you go. If people wanna go back and listen to the interview we did, I mean, I'd encourage you to sort of dwell on his early years because we're focusing very much on. On. On the outcome of him becoming sort of renowned for his climbing expertise. But start at the very beginning of his origin story. That school that he went to in Nepal, where the deprivations, you know, he spoke about the fact that he didn't have flip flops, he had chickens upstairs. There was no privilege. The teachers treated them quite harshly. And yet the idea of what the psychologist Albert Bandura talks about, the locus of control. He always believed the locus of control was within him. The idea that he got up in the middle of the night and ran with weights around his ankles to make him stronger and more obdurate. The fact that he sort of saw the deprivations as preparing him to be able to cope with the harshest of circumstances. He was a guy that wasn't using excuses. And I think that's a pattern that research tells us, as well as what our own interviews have validated over the last seven years. It's the people that believe that they are in control of their own circumstances and their own luck are the ones that tend to find it.
[25:31]
Jake
You know, I know that Nims has a daughter. She's only three years old, very tragically. But one of the things that has given me a bit of comfort, actually, in the last couple of days is thinking that all of these podcasts, and, you know, let's be honest, he didn't just come on high performance. He went on plenty of podcasts, he wrote plenty of articles, he was filmed on plenty of occasions. I really hope that as much as really what she would want is her dad to be around, his daughter can still really know her dad through all of these conversations, you know?
[25:59]
Damian Hughes
Yeah. I read an Interview recently in the. In the Sunday papers where there was a journalist that was really advocating interviewing your parents if they're still around to find out their own story, their own lessons, their own fears in order to help you understand and navigate life yourself and I. Yeah, you're right. I think there's plenty of incredible material out there that Nims has passed on, not only to the general public, but hopefully for his own family to be able to use it as a blueprint for their own lives to go out there and make a difference.
[26:34]
Jake
At this point in our conversation with Nims, Damien attention turned to. To our quickfire questions. The first question we asked Nims was, what are the three non negotiables that people around him have to buy into and bring to the table? And this was his answer.
[26:51]
Nims Purja
I don't accept excuses. You know, we all make mistake. To make mistake is fine, but as long as you. If you keep repeating that mistake. Papa, mah merci. The second thing is, you know, we all have, you know, different talents and all, but then you got to give 100% to now. And third thing, if they are part of my team or if I'm their team, it has to be part of the family. And it's one mission, it's one goal. And then me as a leader, if I make my team feel like that I'm not good enough, because leaders don't do that. There has to be something for every team members. And this is why, you know, the project became so successful, because all my team members managed to climb in a new mountains with me. Normally, what people would do is like, okay, I'm gonna go into this mountain, I'm gonna have someone who has climbed this mountain because he would know the route, he would know how long it's gonna take, he would know where the dangers are, etc. But I didn't do that. I swear. Okay, you haven't climbed that mountain. You're gonna come and climb that mountain with me. And I haven't climbed that mountain either because it was something from. For them as well. And Jake, you know, this kind of nature and the. And the project, you know, doesn't come or become successful without the hard work of a team. It's a team effort, you know, not literally from the guys who are. Who had the boots on the ground, but also at the back, you know, my wife, you know, and people who supported me, all these sponsors and all. And that's why I said, you know, this was a people's project. It wasn't my project. So, yeah, I wanted to mention that.
[28:24]
Damian Hughes
Well, what did you think of that, Jake?
[28:26]
Jake
Well, it's, I find it hard to listen to, to be honest. I feel very sad for his wife. And when he talks about his wife there and talks about his family, obviously he's, you know, many people would have felt that they're in Nims's family if they've been part of his team, if they've climbed mountains with him, if they've planned projects with him. But I think, you know, Suchi, his wife is the person that would have known him better than all the others. I feel very, very sad for her. But I think again, the lesson is so clear, like so clear to us, so clear to everyone listening to this. Like people around you, whether they're family or not, if you make them feel like family together you will achieve so much more than if you make them feel like friends, feel like colleagues, feel like an insignificant part of your life, you know?
[29:17]
Damian Hughes
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, I love that idea that again the he's, you know, when he speaks around, if you don't feel part of a family. I've failed as a leader. He's not attributing that to, to, to your failure or your personality sees it as a reflection on him which goes back to that whole theme of that locus of control. He saw it as something that he could shape and he could, he could, he could create. And again, I think that message was so consistent in everything that he shared with us. He believed that he was in control of the world and the results that he got. Should we listen to the other quick fire questions? Because as I remember it, they were just equally inspiring.
[30:02]
Jake
Yeah, let's do it.
[30:05]
Damian Hughes
What advice would you give a teenage Nims growing up in Nepal, just starting out on your journey?
[30:10]
Nims Purja
Nothing is impossible. It's a very simple message and keep dreaming and hopefully, you know, I will have more opportunity to, to make that positive impact on, on many lives.
[30:21]
Jake
So how important is legacy to you?
[30:24]
Nims Purja
It is important, buddy, I think, of course.
[30:27]
Jake
What do you want your legacy to be?
[30:29]
Nims Purja
I really don't know. I don't have answer because at the moment I'm still like 37 year old young fella and I got so much to live, I got so much to do in this world. So you know, again when you look into my past life, it was all about being the best soldier in the planet and now I'm doing something else and that could be something else. So I think time will tell and it's not up to me to say
[30:51]
Damian Hughes
that, but hey, and finally, Nims, what is your one golden rule for living a high performance life?
[30:58]
Nims Purja
Wow, that's a very tough question. I think never give up, never have excuses, commit, give 100% to now, have a positive mindset and keep believing.
[31:13]
Jake
Wow. How do you feel?
[31:17]
Damian Hughes
I've got a lump in my throat and goosebumps. That bit when he spoke about being a young man and I've got so much to live for, Todd, really just. I forgot he told us that. It just caught me sideways. What about you?
[31:33]
Jake
Same. It's just so sad. So sad. But I don't know, I think
[31:42]
Damian Hughes
knowing
[31:43]
Jake
the kind of guy he was, I think if you asked him at the beginning of his life, listen, son, do you want a long time or do you want a great time? I do think he probably would have said, I want to have a great time. And I definitely take solace from the fact that Nims packed more into his short few years on Earth than many of us pack into an entire lifetime. I often think like one of the saddest lives to live is where you live the same year on repeat.
[32:13]
Damian Hughes
Right.
[32:14]
Jake
Again and again and again. The same restaurants and the same friends and the same pubs and the same holidays and the same emotions and the same highs and lows.
[32:22]
Nims Purja
Yeah.
[32:22]
Jake
Because I think life should be, in my opinion, a mix of different emotions and challenges all the time.
[32:29]
Damian Hughes
Yeah.
[32:29]
Jake
And that's exactly what he had. You know, constant change of scenery, change of challenge. He was pushing himself. You know, the reason why he was the only reason he was on Broad Peak was because he wanted to be the first person to set another record of summiting these mountains twice over. And he said, didn't he put that post up on his social media like this was never in the plan? Yeah, maybe sometimes we have to just surrender to fate, you know?
[32:54]
Damian Hughes
Well, there's a lovely. It reminded me of. There's a poem from a lady called Linda Ellis called the Dash. If I just read it, it says, I read of a man who stood to speak at the funeral of a friend. He referred to the dates on the tombstone from the beginning to the end. He noted that first came the date of birth and spoke of the following date with tears. But he said what mattered most of all was the dash between those years. For that dash represents all the time that spent their life on Earth. And now only those who love them know what that little line is worth. For it matters not how much we own the cars, the house, the cash. What matters is how we live and love and how we spend our dash. So think about this long and hard and there are things you'd like to change for you know how much time is left for you never know how much time is left that still can be arranged to be less quick to anger and show appreciation more and love the people in our lives like we've never loved before. If we treat each other with respect and often wear a smile, remembering that this little special dash might only last a while. So when your eulogy is being read with your life's actions to rehash, would you be proud of the things they say about how you lived your dash? And I think Nims can definitely be proud of his dash.
[34:12]
Jake
100% 100% thoughts with Nims, his family, his friends, all of the climbers who were on Broad Peak with him just a few days ago. And what a privilege and what an honor to have invited Nims onto the High Performance Podcast and to get the opportunity to reflect on his dash for the last little while. Thank you very much for listening to this, and we'll see you again soon for another episode.

Summary8 min read

Podcast Summary: The High Performance Podcast

Episode: Remembering Nims Purja: The Lessons We'll Never Forget

Date: August 5, 2026
Hosts: Jake Humphrey and Damian Hughes

Episode Overview

This deeply moving episode is a tribute to the late Nirmal “Nims” Purja, following his tragic passing in an avalanche on Broad Peak. Hosts Jake Humphrey and Damian Hughes reflect on the indelible mark Nims left on their lives and those of countless others, sharing memorable clips and insights from their conversation with him five years earlier. The episode explores themes central to high performance – hope, purpose, resilience, team, and legacy – with Nims’ voice and wisdom resonating throughout. Listeners are invited to take lessons from Nims’ life and approach, applying them to their own journeys.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Profound Impact of Nims Purja

Nims' Legacy: Both hosts reflect on the unique energy, optimism, and positivity Nims brought into every interaction ([01:07] Jake; [02:16] Damian).
- Quote: “He has left an indelible mark on our lives. So, you know, heaven knows the impact he’s had on his wife and his children and those that knew him for a lot longer.” – Damian ([02:16])
Emotional Response: The shock and sadness of his loss are discussed. Hearing Nims' voice is both a comfort and a fresh sadness ([03:10] Jake).

2. Memorable Moments from Their Interview

The Power of Language and Connection

“Brother”: Nims’ repeated use of the word “brother” stood out, instantly creating a sense of intimacy and connection, even with strangers ([04:17] Damian).
- Quote: “How can you not respond to somebody coming up with such an intimate term for somebody that we’d never met?” – Damian ([04:20])
Cultural Integration: Nims watched British comedy “Only Fools and Horses” to help blend into his team when joining the British Special Forces, exemplifying his thoughtful, inclusive approach ([04:32]).

Perseverance and Growth

World-Class Performance: To be world-class at anything demands extraordinary persistence and going beyond comfort zones ([05:24] Damian).
- Quote: “To be world-class at anything depends on how long you’re willing to be at it for.” – Nims (as cited by Damian, [05:30])
Failing Forward: Nims failed his first attempt at joining the Gurkhas, returned, and succeeded, showing the importance of resilience ([05:30]).

3. The Lessons of Hope

Hope as “God”

Quote: “Hope is God. I’m not a really religious person…But then I keep saying hope is God because that’s all what we have.” – Nims ([07:08])
Hope Overcoming Despair: Nims shares how hope kept him motivated during life-and-death moments in war and mountaineering.
Hosts Reflect: Jake and Damian discuss hope as the key theme Nims lived, taught, and left for listeners, particularly relevant when facing adversity ([08:13] Jake).
Quote: “Hope doesn’t kind of deny the pain…But hope just says to you: this is not the whole story. You can rewrite something here.” – Jake ([08:13])
Research Reference: Hope predicts productivity and academic performance more than raw intelligence ([09:50] Damian).

The Complexity of Hope

Bittersweetness: Hope for positive news after Nims’ accident illustrates hope’s power, but also its potential cruelty ([10:51] Jake).
Quote: “He wrote in his own book that nature doesn’t care about your reputation… The mountain is entirely indifferent to who you are.” – Damian ([11:29])

4. Reframing Adversity & Taking Responsibility

Reframing the Narrative: When Nims’ oxygen was stolen on Everest in 2017, he reframed the situation by choosing to believe it was used in an emergency to save a life. Instead of bitterness, he focused on positivity ([12:43] Nims).
- Quote: “Sometimes you have to do it all…It’s all about how you cope with the situation.” – Nims ([13:41])
Practical Lesson: Our reaction to the 5% of things that happen determines 95% of our life experience ([14:50] Jake).
- Quote: “Life is 95% how you react to the 5% of things that happen.” – Jake ([15:29])
Reframing in Everyday Life: Hosts encourage listeners to adopt this approach yourself: what benefit is there in carrying bitterness?

5. The Power of Purpose & Serving a Greater Good

Project Possible: Nims describes his project’s purpose as far greater than his own fame; it was about representing Nepal, raising awareness for Nepalese climbers, and spotlighting environmental issues ([16:04] Nims).
- Quote: “If it was for myself and if it was for the name and fame, I would have never been successful in this project.” – Nims ([16:33])
Core Pillars: Nims constantly reminded himself that to give up would let down not just himself, but the communities and institutions he represented ([18:01] Jake).
Research Reference: Having a sense of purpose is correlated with greater longevity, resilience, and health ([19:14] Damian).

6. Creating Opportunity & The “No Excuses” Mindset

Self-Reliance: Nims attributes his achievements to creating his own opportunities, not luck or privilege ([20:58] Nims).
- Quote: “You just have to work twice harder maybe. So that’s a simple message that nothing is impossible as long as you believe it and as long as you want to do it.” ([22:58])
The Locus of Control: Nims believed in shaping his own fate, reinforcing that control lies within ([24:13] Damian).
- Quote: “He was a guy that wasn’t using excuses…It’s the people that believe that they are in control of their own circumstances…are the ones that tend to find it.” – Damian ([24:13])

7. Non-Negotiables, Leadership & Team

Nims’ Three Non-Negotiables ([26:50])

No Excuses: Mistakes are permitted once, but not repeatedly.
100% Commitment: Everyone must give their all in the moment.
Family Feeling: The team must become like a family; “one mission, one goal.”
- Quote: “If they are part of my team or if I’m their team, it has to be part of the family. And it’s one mission, it’s one goal.” – Nims ([26:50])

Leadership Philosophy

Leaders Don’t Create Distance: If his team didn’t feel like family, Nims saw it as his failure, not theirs ([29:16] Damian).
- Quote: “If youdon’t feel part of a family, I’ve failed as a leader.” – Nims (paraphrased by Damian, [29:16])
Team Elevation: On expeditions, Nims chose inexperienced team members so they could rise together rather than relying on past climbers with more experience ([27:21] Nims).

8. Quick-Fire Inspiration: Nims in His Own Words

Advice to His Younger Self: “Nothing is impossible. It’s a very simple message and keep dreaming...” ([30:10])
The Importance of Legacy: Nims said legacy mattered but left its exact meaning to time ([30:23]).
- Quote: “I really don’t know. I don’t have answer because at the moment I’m still like 37 year old young fella and I got so much to live, I got so much to do in this world.” ([30:29])
His Golden Rule: “Never give up, never have excuses, commit, give 100% to now, have a positive mindset and keep believing.” ([30:58])

9. Reflections on Loss, Legacy, and “The Dash”

Living Fully: Hosts take solace in knowing Nims packed an extraordinary amount of achievement, joy, and diversity of experience into his life ([31:42] Jake).
Poetic Tribute: Damian reads “The Dash” by Linda Ellis to encapsulate Nims’ impact:
- “What matters is how we live and love and how we spend our dash...And I think Nims can definitely be proud of his dash.” ([32:53]-[34:12])

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

“Hope is God because that’s all what we have.” – Nims Purja ([07:36])
“To be world-class at anything depends on how long you’re willing to be at it for.” – Nims (via Damian, [05:24])
“Nothing is impossible as long as you believe it and as long as you want to do it.” – Nims ([22:58])
“If you don’t feel part of a family, I’ve failed as a leader.” – Nims (paraphrased, [29:16])
“Never give up, never have excuses, commit, give 100% to now, have a positive mindset and keep believing.” – Nims ([30:58])
“What matters is how we live and love and how we spend our dash.” – Linda Ellis poem read by Damian ([33:05])

Timestamps for Important Segments

Opening Remembrance: [00:03] – [03:10]
Nims’ Influence & First Reflections: [03:10] – [05:30]
Key Lesson 1: The Power of Hope: [07:08] – [09:50]
Lesson 2: Reframing Adversity (“Oxygen Stolen” story): [12:43] – [14:06]
Lesson 3: The Importance of Purpose (“Project Possible”): [16:04] – [18:01]
Lesson 4: Creating Opportunity / No Excuses: [20:58] – [24:13]
Nims’ Non-Negotiables & Team Philosophy: [26:50] – [29:16]
Quickfire Questions (Advice, Legacy, Golden Rule): [30:04] – [31:12]
Final Reflections & “The Dash” Poem: [32:53] – [34:12]

Tone & Language

This episode is heartfelt, reflective, and sincere. Both hosts speak candidly about their grief but focus on extracting and sharing the practical, inspirational lessons that Nims embodied. The mood alternates between sorrow and celebration, with a consistent thread of honoring Nims’ energy, humility, and relentless positivity.

Summary Takeaways

Hope is a vital force, especially when facts seem insurmountable.
Reframe adversity: positive storytelling in the face of hardship is a powerful psychological tool.
Purpose is essential – personal goals matter more when they serve something bigger than oneself.
Excuses are the enemy of progress; create your own opportunity, regardless of circumstances.
Team and family are built by effortful inclusion—not by hierarchy or ego.
Legacy is not just what you achieve, but how you inspire, uplift, and connect with others along the way.
Live a life varied and brave—the dash between birth and death is what truly counts.

This episode not only preserves Nims Purja’s spirit for his family and all who hear it, but also leaves listeners with a template for living with courage, humility, and hope.

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Transcript63 lines

[00:04]
Jake
Hi, there. Welcome along to another episode of High Performance. So we first started this podcast over seven years ago, and since that time, myself and Damian Hughes have had the privilege of speaking to hundreds and hundreds of the most incredible people on the planet. It's fair to say that many of them have impressed us or intrigued us or at times, even changed us. But there's probably only a couple of handfuls of people that have left a genuine, indelible mark on the way that we live our lives and the way that we think. And we're about to talk about a man who did exactly that. And in so many ways. Damien, this is not an episode of High Performance that either of us would ever have wanted to record, is it?
[00:44]
Damian Hughes
Yes, Jake. This is a episode that we wish we weren't making. It's somebody that's been taken far too soon. It's the brilliant Nims Purger that we were lucky enough to speak to long before his fourteen Peaks documentary ever sort of catapulted him to worldwide renown. Unfortunately, this weekend, he was caught up in an avalanche in Pakistan, where his body was discovered.
[01:08]
Jake
Indeed. So the world loses a man who brought so much energy, so much light, so much optimism, so much positivity, and I am so eternally grateful that we had the opportunity to speak to him on High Performance. And we're going to share some of the clips from our conversation with Nims. Remarkably, Damien, it was, like, five years ago that we had the chance to speak to him. Time flies by, and I think some people. Some people might listen to this episode today and think, well, hold on, you spent an hour together five years ago, and, yeah, we kept in touch. But it's hard to explain quite why, when you record an episode of this show with someone, quite why you get that connection to them. Because it's not just. It's not just talking to them for an hour. Like we're asking them to open themselves up to us, we're opening ourselves up to them. And it's really interesting that we get a very deep, very intense relationship with someone very quickly when you have these kinds of conversations. And I think that's why both of us, you know, we've been exchanging messages over the weekend. I think that's why both of us were so deeply impacted, really, by. By the news as it emerged that Nims had sadly passed away on Broad Peak.
[02:16]
Damian Hughes
Yeah, well, you know that phrase that we frequently use, Jake, that nothing you do is neutral. Everything sort of either enhances an environment you go into, or it subtly erodes it. And I think what Nims was almost the perfect embodiment of somebody that just enhanced it, even when we did it remotely. His energy, his enthusiasm, his openness just was so endearing that you could tell why, as a member of the Special Forces, after he'd been a member of the Gurkhas, he'd been such a invaluable member of that team because he just made them better. And we got a small glimpse of it in that hour, of how he encouraged us to be better people, communicators and presenters. He has left an indelible mark on our lives. So, you know, heaven knows the impact he's had on his wife and his children and those that knew him for a lot longer.
[03:10]
Jake
And we're going to play some clips from the conversation and talk about them in just a moment. In some ways, Damien, I almost don't want to do this, because hearing his voice is almost the hardest thing, because you get reminded of the fact that it's not just the loss of his life, and we also must pay our tributes and our respects to the people that died with him on that mountain. But it's kind of the loss of this energy source. And I know the world is a poorer place without him, but the world is absolutely a richer place for having had Nim's Purger in it for the time that he was alive. What are your memories of. Of that specific day? Because it was obviously recorded from a distance. He was in Nepal. We were. You were at home. I was at home. I tell you my vivid memories when he said something, and I remember I stood up and put my arms in the air and went, you're just so inspiring. I just have this, like, memory of, like, I don't know, man. I remember. I remember skipping out here and saying to Harry and the kids, I've just recorded an episode that you need to listen to. Like, Seb was only five at the time, I'll tell you.
[04:11]
Damian Hughes
Well, there was three things for me. One was his repeated use of the word brother. You know what I mean?
[04:17]
Nims Purja
Yes. Brother.
[04:18]
Damian Hughes
Yes.
[04:18]
Jake
And I've used brother so much since.
[04:20]
Damian Hughes
Yeah. Because, I mean, how can you not respond to somebody coming up with such a. With such a. Like an intimate term for somebody that we'd never met?
[04:29]
Jake
It made you feel so good, didn't it, when he said it?
[04:32]
Nims Purja
Yeah.
[04:32]
Damian Hughes
The second one was that what I loved about him, when I've told people, is that when he was describing how he was preparing to join the sbs, the Special Forces, part of his training that he did was to sit and watch Only Fools and Horses. And when we asked him why, he was like, well, because I realized that I was gonna have to adopt the same sense of humor as the guys was gonna be in. He went. Because he said that you need to be the. Almost the anonymous figure. So he went, I have to do everything I can to assimilate. And part of that was, I need to get into the same sense of humor. What they're laughing at, I need to be able to laugh at. And to me, it was such a subtle but really insightful and clever way that the guy thought that that stood out. And then the final one was he used that line to us when he went to be world class at anything, depends on how long you're willing to be at it for. And I love that I've used that.
[05:25]
Jake
So you've used that, like every time we're on stage, you. You use that word and that line with people.
[05:30]
Damian Hughes
Yeah, because it captures so beautifully that. This was a guy that described how he failed his first attempt to join the Gurkha regiment, and then he went back a second time. Then he was the first Gurkha to become a member of the British Special Forces. Then he left there. And he'd never climbed mountains before he broke those world records. This was a guy that was constantly going out of his comfort zone and we were seeing the outcome. But he was at pains to say, listen, there's a process I've had to follow and I've been rubbish at it for a long time before I got excellent. And if that isn't a great definition of high performance, I don't know what is.
[06:06]
Jake
It's such a sad loss. Well, today we are absolutely privileged to say that Nim's joined us on high performance, and we're extremely proud that we can play you listening or watching this, some of the clips and some of the comments and some of the thoughts that he shared with us, because they are things that can be part of your life going forward from here.
[06:29]
Damian Hughes
Well, I did read, Jake, that in the sort of Sherpa Buddhist belief system, there's a belief that the soul takes 49 days after death to determine its next rebirth. So it sort of did. So hopefully we can put in a good word for Nims here and sort of going back and revisiting just what an incredible man he was, so that whatever he comes back as is, is well deserving of the impact that he left.
[06:56]
Jake
I love that. I love that. Well, let's. Let's go straight to a clip then from Nims Persia. Here he is, the late, great Nims Purger, sharing with us the importance of hope.
[07:09]
Nims Purja
And then it is as much like those little details as you got to pay attention now going into the mountain, as you said, like, hope is God. I'm not a really religious person, you know, I don't really believe in God. But then I keep saying hope is God because that's all what we have. Okay. As a human, if you imagine, let's say for my example, okay, if I'm in sbs, if I'm in a war or somewhere else, then when there's, if the bullets flying around and when it hits the fan, and if you are not like, hoping that you're gonna win this war, that's like you give up the battle already. And exactly. When you're climbing in the mountain, sometimes, you know, I was climbing it at 75 kilometer per hour wind speed, it's so freezing cold. But then if you just give up your hope that you're going to come alive from these big mountains, you're going to die. Because, you know, hope is what keeps us motivated. Hope is what it keeps us alive, you know, and that's what we have as a human.
[08:13]
Jake
I think it's a really important place to start near Damien, because I think if Nims taught us one thing, lived with one thing, and left us with one thing, it is hope. And I think the reason why that is such an important lesson for people is I think that we need hope when we're in that moment in life where the fact offers us absolutely nothing. Right? And the fact in front of Nims Purger was that nobody climbs 14 peaks at the speed that he does it. Nobody summits these mountains without oxygen time and time and time again. But he did those things despite the fact that there was no evidence that it could be done. So there might be people listening to this, knowing that they have a diagnosis that's frightening. A relationship that might be broken, a dream that might be falling apart. Maybe grief has changed the shape of everything. Maybe there are people listening to this, waking up, and they can't see a way forward. And I think what Nims talked about there, and we'll hear another clip about this in a moment, is the fact that the hope needs to be there when the moments aren't very easy, right? Because the hope doesn't kind of deny the pain. It doesn't ignore the reality or promise that everything's gonna be fine. But hope just says to you, like, this is not the whole story. You can rewrite something Here. And I think, as Nim showed us, hope, because hope was all he had at times, can give all of us the strength to take that one step when we can't see the entire journey, that just because life feels dark today doesn't mean the light has disappeared forever. And I think in some ways, hope is more important when we talk about Nims than ever before. Because he's no longer here.
[09:51]
Damian Hughes
Yeah, definitely. I mean, that whole topic of hope. I remember reading a book by a guy called Andrew. Remember reading a book by Andrew Rizighi called Hope, where he looks at the research on its importance in life in general, not just performance. But there was one study by a psychologist called Shane Lopez who said that hope accounts for about 14% in the variance of somebody's productivity in the workplace. There was another study that said for academic performance, hope was a more accurate predictor than somebody's intelligence or prior grades. The belief that things can be better tomorrow than they were today is critical for us as a species. And I think, again, for Nims, and the sort of message that he passed on to us is that sometimes when the night was darkest, it was his own internal light of hope that things were going to be better, that things were going to improve. That was such an inspiring example for it. And I think we can all. We can all take that and embrace.
[10:51]
Jake
Can also be very cruel, though, can't it, Hope? Because I don't know what you were doing over the weekend, but I was constantly refreshing my browsers. I was going on social media trying to get any news I could. And I was seeing this news that Nims GPS tracker had said that he'd moved after the avalanche. And I was sort of in my head, I was thinking, come on. Like, if anyone can Nims purge, I can. You know, this. I. I tell you, I was fully expecting. Fully expecting to hear the news that he was gonna be okay. Because he was the kind of guy that just gave you that feeling, you know, he gave you that feeling of invincibility. And I suppose it's another reminder that, you know, human life is so fragile.
[11:29]
Damian Hughes
Well, he wrote in his own book, I was reminded of it when the final news came through, that he said in his own brilliant book that nature doesn't care about your reputation, your age, your gender role, your personality. The mountain is entirely indifferent to who you are. And I think there's something there around. This was a man that knew and had that ultimate respect for nature and the power of it, you know? And I'd like to believe that as Horrendous as his passing is, he'd have been at peace with it. He knew. He knew what he was doing and he knew the risks that he was taking on every time that he did scale those mountains.
[12:05]
Jake
I hope so. So that's our first lesson from the great Nims Persia, which is that hope is the most important thing. And if you're listening to this, I think it's also important to remember that it's not just hope for us, it's hope for each other as well. I think we all know there are days when someone that we love can't deal with it themselves. And those days we have to carry the hope for them, remind people of who they are, you know, the fact that they've survived everything up until this point and so much of their story is still waiting be written. Yeah. He also gave us a great example, didn't he, Damian, about hope? I think we should probably share this story now.
[12:44]
Nims Purja
If you love what you're going to do, of course you got to work hard for it. You got to again commit. There will be so much like negative in his stuff. But then you got to think positive about everything. And just to give an example, I was on Everest in 2017, I was still in special forces and I was trying to break the world record for climbing in Everest, Lote and Makalo, which is the first, fourth and fifth highest mountain. And in process of doing that, when I went to Lotse, my oxygen were stolen. So just to give you an example, being oxygen stolen at Campo, at the death zone is. It's a crime. You work so hard, you have to check the weather forecast, you have to take those oxygen to put it over there. It's a mission. And literally when you went over there and your oxygen is not there, it is, it's gonna drown you. And many people will just get angry and they will just like blame on other people and they leave. But what I thought was, okay, Nims, come on, come on, there must be something. And what I said was okay, my oxygen was probably used for some emergency situation. Maybe someone is alive because it was, you know, somebody used it for rescue. That could be completely lie. But then I told my brain to believe in that positive thing and I was happy. Okay, you know, somebody's alive, maybe. But then sometimes you have to do it all. It's all about, you know, how you, you cope with the situation.
[14:07]
Damian Hughes
I mean, what a powerful story that is that, you know, you come to get your oxygen supplies and find out that they've been stolen. But the brain in a situation like that, Jake is what's. There's a great phrase I've been using recently called the cognitive miser. Your brain doesn't like being generous to other people with their descriptions or their explanation. So we tend to see the worst in a situation or believe it. Like what Nim said that somebody's stolen this. How could they do it? But what I love is the. The sheer force of his thinking, to actually try and see the positives in it, to believe that his oxygen had actually helped save somebody else's life, rather than let himself dwell in that bitterness and the anger and the negativity that. That most of us would have sort of succumbed to.
[14:51]
Jake
And by the way, if he can do it when he's faced with a moment that could literally kill him because someone has taken his oxygen, you and I can do it in our everyday lives. You know, this is a. This. This is a concept called reframing. Tom Grennan and loads of other guests on the podcast have spoken about it. You know, what benefit did it serve Nims at that moment to think I've been wronged? Zero. What benefit did it serve him to write a story as untrue as it might be, that his oxygen had saved someone's life? The benefit to him was huge. And it's a reminder for all of us to do this. You know, we can spend our lives getting bitter, twisted, wrapped up in what other people say, frustrated with other people's actions, but what benefit is that doing to us? So if you're listening to this now, the next lesson left for us from Nims Purger is that you are responsible for your reaction to the world. There's that great phrase, Damien. Life is 95% how you react to the 5% of things that happen. You know, it's not about what happens, it's about how we react to those things that happen. I want to play a clip now, which I think is really important. And this is all about the power of purpose, having something in your life that is so much bigger than you. I'll let Nims explain the importance of Project Possible.
[16:04]
Nims Purja
Sometimes I used to vision like, okay, Nims, there is all this painful. There's like so much suffering. But then what. What's going to happen when you finish the project? You can still kind of, you know, look yourself through this dark tunnel and you can see yourself on the other side. And that's what it gives you more kind of power. And as I mentioned on the book, like, I had a really good purposes that I believed why I needed to do this project. And being completely honest, if it was for myself and if it was for the name and fame, I would have never been successful in this project. It was, you know, that. That huge, you know, you needed something bigger than this. So when I left my job, my mom even told me, you know, she's very close to. To me, she's my inspiration. And she said, oh, Nims, because, you know, you are sending money every month and now you are doing this project because, you know, we. We are a burden to you. But I said to. To her, no, mom, because this project is way bigger than me, our family and all. And if I can sacrifice this for the bigger reason which I absolutely believed in, I think I can do it. There's a chance. And the reason was, yes, I love the mountaineering. I love the challenge. But more than that, I wanted to show the world in my way that nothing is impossible. I wanted to raise the name of the Nepalese climbers, and equally I want to raise the awareness about, you know, climate change and sustainable environment. So. And then these were the core pillars. But when I say core pillars, these are the bigger picture. But then inside that there is also layer. Because in all, these pillars cannot always keep you going. Then I used to think, okay, I cannot give up because I represent the best in the world, UK Special forces. I have no right to ruin their reputation by coming out loud and be a joker. Then I used to think, okay, I'm a Gurkha now. Then I should say, okay, I represent Nepalese climbing community. Then it goes into the circle and the cycle of everything else.
[18:02]
Jake
I love that idea. Damian of Nims having those core pillars where he says, right, I can't give up because I represent the best in the world, the special forces. I have no right to ruin their reputation by coming out loud and being a joker. Then I think, okay, I'm a Gurkha. Then I think, now I represent the Nepalese climbing community. All of us represent things far greater than ourselves. All of us represent our parents, our friends, our colleagues, our businesses, our legacy. And I just think it's a great way to think, isn't it? To have this idea that there's something so much bigger than us. It kind of, in many ways removes the ego from everything. And I think NIMH's got unfairly criticized for putting ego at the center of what he did. I think we do that naturally. When someone becomes famous and successful for something, it makes us feel better to say it must have been about ego. But I Don't believe it was. I believe that his purpose of being a climber representing Nepal mattered more than anything for him. That wonderful scene of him holding arm in arm with his fellow Nepalese Sherpas and singing the Nepanese national anthem as they summited, that's a reminder that it wasn't him striding out 20 yards in front of all of the other Sherpas. That was him putting Nepal ahead of himself. And I think that often was his energy source when times were hard.
[19:14]
Damian Hughes
Yeah, definitely. And again, that's been consistent with so many of the Special Forces guys that we've seen that they pride themselves on putting the team above the individual. So I have no reason to believe that it was about ego for him, that he was constantly lifting others up to where he went. There's a study, Jake, on finding a purpose. We don't have to scale the 14 highest mountain peaks in the world to find our own version of it. In 2019, there was a study of over 7,000 adults in America aged over 50, and it found that those with the lowest sense of purpose were roughly twice as likely to die during the four year follow up as those that said that they had a higher figure. There's other research that says those with a higher sense of purpose are about two and a half times more likely to remain free of Alzheimer's than those with a low purpose. There's another one that says that having a purpose reduces the risk of a heart attack by about 27%. So just sort of tapping into something that's bigger than ourselves, making ourselves seem as if we're putting ourselves in situations where we have almost like a duty or an obligation to represent something bigger than us. Like, what Nims was talking about is life enhancing as well as, you know, it puts life in our years as well as years in our life. And there's something really powerful to be said around being willing to try and find and discover that sense of what we're here for.
[20:41]
Jake
Really nice. But of course, at the same time, sometimes what we need to find is within us. It's not in the higher purpose, it's within us. And Nims also spoke about this. This idea that in life you have to create your own opportunity.
[20:58]
Nims Purja
My principle was, in everything what we do in life, you should never think about the second options. Okay, I'll give you an example. Okay. If you say that you're going to run a complete marathon, and if you're already thinking about giving up in like halfway, you're gonna give up. You don't have to think about giving up. If you can't do it, you can give up. It's just there, it's in your pocket. You just give up. You don't have to already plan to give up, you know, I mean, so I used to say, why, why refer to second options when you can plan on the, on the first option? And going into second option is always easier. It's always easier, but then it's easier doesn't mean it's right, you know, so that's what's kind of, you know, like my, my thought process. But then a key message here is Jake, you know, if you look where I came from, you know, a really poor, you know, Nepalese background, You know, we used to live in, in this, you know, you know, in this room where we had like chicken upstairs, you know, so there were chicken farming or, you know, and then having no flip flops to then joining the Guyakas. I failed my first attempt in the Guyakhas, but second time I made it through. Then going into Special Forces, you know, like driving submarines, doing some of the craziest stuff that people can't even imagine. You know, I know what I've done and probably few people know, but then even from that, to go and climb all these 14 highest mountain in the world that no one has ever imagined. And who I am now, I would like to say I'm pretty successful. But then looking back, I had nothing. I was underprivileged. You know, I had no, like, opportunities. But then I created opportunities. So for everybody else out there who feel like that they have no privilege or underprivileged or who feel like they don't have the opportunity, oh man, we create our own opportunity. You just have to work twice harder maybe. So that's a simple message that nothing is impossible as long as you believe it and as long as you want to do it.
[23:08]
Jake
I mean, I love the way that he ended that line there, Damien, where he said a simple message. Nothing's impossible as long as you believe it and as long as you want to do it. And obviously that was the title of his Netflix documentary that propelled him to superstardom. And it's so important for someone like Nims, who didn't come from privilege, didn't come from wealth, didn't come from opportunity to show us all what's possible. You know, when he says, you just have to work twice harder, maybe, I mean, it's something that people don't like hearing these days. I think often they feel like we don't all have the same opportunities. Therefore, we can't all be judged in the same way. But I think actually what Nims represented here was this idea that maybe that is the case, but also maybe we have far more control over the outcome of our lives than we want to admit. And I think it's become ever more that case, because I think excuses can be really helpful for people at times. It allows them to hide behind the fact that there must be another reason that they haven't achieved the things they want to achieve. And really what Nims was saying in that message is, hey, listen, no excuses, right? It's within. It's within, and you need to find it, mate.
[24:14]
Damian Hughes
That's such a powerful message. I think when you go. If people wanna go back and listen to the interview we did, I mean, I'd encourage you to sort of dwell on his early years because we're focusing very much on. On. On the outcome of him becoming sort of renowned for his climbing expertise. But start at the very beginning of his origin story. That school that he went to in Nepal, where the deprivations, you know, he spoke about the fact that he didn't have flip flops, he had chickens upstairs. There was no privilege. The teachers treated them quite harshly. And yet the idea of what the psychologist Albert Bandura talks about, the locus of control. He always believed the locus of control was within him. The idea that he got up in the middle of the night and ran with weights around his ankles to make him stronger and more obdurate. The fact that he sort of saw the deprivations as preparing him to be able to cope with the harshest of circumstances. He was a guy that wasn't using excuses. And I think that's a pattern that research tells us, as well as what our own interviews have validated over the last seven years. It's the people that believe that they are in control of their own circumstances and their own luck are the ones that tend to find it.
[25:31]
Jake
You know, I know that Nims has a daughter. She's only three years old, very tragically. But one of the things that has given me a bit of comfort, actually, in the last couple of days is thinking that all of these podcasts, and, you know, let's be honest, he didn't just come on high performance. He went on plenty of podcasts, he wrote plenty of articles, he was filmed on plenty of occasions. I really hope that as much as really what she would want is her dad to be around, his daughter can still really know her dad through all of these conversations, you know?
[25:59]
Damian Hughes
Yeah. I read an Interview recently in the. In the Sunday papers where there was a journalist that was really advocating interviewing your parents if they're still around to find out their own story, their own lessons, their own fears in order to help you understand and navigate life yourself and I. Yeah, you're right. I think there's plenty of incredible material out there that Nims has passed on, not only to the general public, but hopefully for his own family to be able to use it as a blueprint for their own lives to go out there and make a difference.
[26:34]
Jake
At this point in our conversation with Nims, Damien attention turned to. To our quickfire questions. The first question we asked Nims was, what are the three non negotiables that people around him have to buy into and bring to the table? And this was his answer.
[26:51]
Nims Purja
I don't accept excuses. You know, we all make mistake. To make mistake is fine, but as long as you. If you keep repeating that mistake. Papa, mah merci. The second thing is, you know, we all have, you know, different talents and all, but then you got to give 100% to now. And third thing, if they are part of my team or if I'm their team, it has to be part of the family. And it's one mission, it's one goal. And then me as a leader, if I make my team feel like that I'm not good enough, because leaders don't do that. There has to be something for every team members. And this is why, you know, the project became so successful, because all my team members managed to climb in a new mountains with me. Normally, what people would do is like, okay, I'm gonna go into this mountain, I'm gonna have someone who has climbed this mountain because he would know the route, he would know how long it's gonna take, he would know where the dangers are, etc. But I didn't do that. I swear. Okay, you haven't climbed that mountain. You're gonna come and climb that mountain with me. And I haven't climbed that mountain either because it was something from. For them as well. And Jake, you know, this kind of nature and the. And the project, you know, doesn't come or become successful without the hard work of a team. It's a team effort, you know, not literally from the guys who are. Who had the boots on the ground, but also at the back, you know, my wife, you know, and people who supported me, all these sponsors and all. And that's why I said, you know, this was a people's project. It wasn't my project. So, yeah, I wanted to mention that.
[28:24]
Damian Hughes
Well, what did you think of that, Jake?
[28:26]
Jake
Well, it's, I find it hard to listen to, to be honest. I feel very sad for his wife. And when he talks about his wife there and talks about his family, obviously he's, you know, many people would have felt that they're in Nims's family if they've been part of his team, if they've climbed mountains with him, if they've planned projects with him. But I think, you know, Suchi, his wife is the person that would have known him better than all the others. I feel very, very sad for her. But I think again, the lesson is so clear, like so clear to us, so clear to everyone listening to this. Like people around you, whether they're family or not, if you make them feel like family together you will achieve so much more than if you make them feel like friends, feel like colleagues, feel like an insignificant part of your life, you know?
[29:17]
Damian Hughes
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, I love that idea that again the he's, you know, when he speaks around, if you don't feel part of a family. I've failed as a leader. He's not attributing that to, to, to your failure or your personality sees it as a reflection on him which goes back to that whole theme of that locus of control. He saw it as something that he could shape and he could, he could, he could create. And again, I think that message was so consistent in everything that he shared with us. He believed that he was in control of the world and the results that he got. Should we listen to the other quick fire questions? Because as I remember it, they were just equally inspiring.
[30:02]
Jake
Yeah, let's do it.
[30:05]
Damian Hughes
What advice would you give a teenage Nims growing up in Nepal, just starting out on your journey?
[30:10]
Nims Purja
Nothing is impossible. It's a very simple message and keep dreaming and hopefully, you know, I will have more opportunity to, to make that positive impact on, on many lives.
[30:21]
Jake
So how important is legacy to you?
[30:24]
Nims Purja
It is important, buddy, I think, of course.
[30:27]
Jake
What do you want your legacy to be?
[30:29]
Nims Purja
I really don't know. I don't have answer because at the moment I'm still like 37 year old young fella and I got so much to live, I got so much to do in this world. So you know, again when you look into my past life, it was all about being the best soldier in the planet and now I'm doing something else and that could be something else. So I think time will tell and it's not up to me to say
[30:51]
Damian Hughes
that, but hey, and finally, Nims, what is your one golden rule for living a high performance life?
[30:58]
Nims Purja
Wow, that's a very tough question. I think never give up, never have excuses, commit, give 100% to now, have a positive mindset and keep believing.
[31:13]
Jake
Wow. How do you feel?
[31:17]
Damian Hughes
I've got a lump in my throat and goosebumps. That bit when he spoke about being a young man and I've got so much to live for, Todd, really just. I forgot he told us that. It just caught me sideways. What about you?
[31:33]
Jake
Same. It's just so sad. So sad. But I don't know, I think
[31:42]
Damian Hughes
knowing
[31:43]
Jake
the kind of guy he was, I think if you asked him at the beginning of his life, listen, son, do you want a long time or do you want a great time? I do think he probably would have said, I want to have a great time. And I definitely take solace from the fact that Nims packed more into his short few years on Earth than many of us pack into an entire lifetime. I often think like one of the saddest lives to live is where you live the same year on repeat.
[32:13]
Damian Hughes
Right.
[32:14]
Jake
Again and again and again. The same restaurants and the same friends and the same pubs and the same holidays and the same emotions and the same highs and lows.
[32:22]
Nims Purja
Yeah.
[32:22]
Jake
Because I think life should be, in my opinion, a mix of different emotions and challenges all the time.
[32:29]
Damian Hughes
Yeah.
[32:29]
Jake
And that's exactly what he had. You know, constant change of scenery, change of challenge. He was pushing himself. You know, the reason why he was the only reason he was on Broad Peak was because he wanted to be the first person to set another record of summiting these mountains twice over. And he said, didn't he put that post up on his social media like this was never in the plan? Yeah, maybe sometimes we have to just surrender to fate, you know?
[32:54]
Damian Hughes
Well, there's a lovely. It reminded me of. There's a poem from a lady called Linda Ellis called the Dash. If I just read it, it says, I read of a man who stood to speak at the funeral of a friend. He referred to the dates on the tombstone from the beginning to the end. He noted that first came the date of birth and spoke of the following date with tears. But he said what mattered most of all was the dash between those years. For that dash represents all the time that spent their life on Earth. And now only those who love them know what that little line is worth. For it matters not how much we own the cars, the house, the cash. What matters is how we live and love and how we spend our dash. So think about this long and hard and there are things you'd like to change for you know how much time is left for you never know how much time is left that still can be arranged to be less quick to anger and show appreciation more and love the people in our lives like we've never loved before. If we treat each other with respect and often wear a smile, remembering that this little special dash might only last a while. So when your eulogy is being read with your life's actions to rehash, would you be proud of the things they say about how you lived your dash? And I think Nims can definitely be proud of his dash.
[34:12]
Jake
100% 100% thoughts with Nims, his family, his friends, all of the climbers who were on Broad Peak with him just a few days ago. And what a privilege and what an honor to have invited Nims onto the High Performance Podcast and to get the opportunity to reflect on his dash for the last little while. Thank you very much for listening to this, and we'll see you again soon for another episode.