The 4 Questions That Will Change Your Perspective on Life

Summary

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The High Performance Podcast

Episode: The 4 Questions That Will Change Your Perspective on Life

Hosts: Jake Humphrey & Damian Hughes
Date: June 10, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this reflective episode, hosts Jake Humphrey and Damian Hughes revisit insights gleaned from remarkable guests over five years of High Performance. Inspired by existential psychologist Tatiana Schnell and sports coach Steve Kerr, they introduce four fundamental questions designed to challenge listeners’ perspectives and guide them in living a coherent, meaningful, directed, and connected life. The discussion is punctuated with guest clips and powerful personal anecdotes that illuminate each question, making the conversation both deeply personal and broadly applicable.

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The Four Life-Changing Questions

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1. Does Your Life Add Up? (Coherence)

“Does your life add up? Is it coherent?” – Damien [03:31]

• Inspired by Tatiana Schnell’s emphasis on coherence in high performance and meaning-based living.
• Jake and Damien explore the concept of one’s life “adding up” through the lens of storytelling and reflection, using the "Triple H" (Hero, Hardship, Highlight) exercise popular in elite sports.

Key Clip: Dr. Pippa Grange [03:44]

“What does extreme elite performance require? Risk. You have to be vulnerable enough to put yourself out there. Every time there is a culture of conformity, for me it's impoverishing. It really strips away people's ability to take that risk.” — Dr. Pippa Grange [03:44]

• The “Triple H” exercise (hero, hardship, highlight) fosters vulnerability and deepens team bonds by encouraging honest self-storytelling.

Personal Reflection: Jake

• Hero: His grandpa, who inspired him morally and professionally, teaching him life lessons even in simple ways (e.g., “how to blow my nose”).

• Hardship: Coping with family loss, childhood bullying, and most notably, being denied his dream of becoming a police officer due to color blindness, directly related to his admiration for his grandpa.

• Highlight: Hosting the 2012 London Olympics for the BBC, a moment of professional validation and the culmination of personal perseverance.

  “My highlight was probably hosting the 2012 London Olympics for the BBC, because it felt like I was part of a national moment.” — Jake [06:40]

• Dr. Grange underscores the power of these personal stories in creating humility and deep connection within groups. [07:48]

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2. Do You Realise You Matter and Make a Difference? (Significance)

“How do you matter and how do you make a difference?” – Damien [08:37]

• The conversation shifts to personal significance and the impact one has on others.
• Reflections center on recognizing moments when you genuinely matter—not just in public life, but in private, relationship-centered ways as well.

Key Clip: Guest Musician H [09:12]

• H shares how his sister — the subject of his song “My G” — has been a grounding, inspiring presence.

  “She really is the star of the show... I’ll go make platinum records, but when I get home, I’m not the superstar.” — H [09:16]

Personal Reflection: Jake

• Family: He reflects on newfound understanding for his own children as a parent, recognizing the profound sense of mattering within his family.

  “I remain the sun, the moon and the stars to my kids... that’s where I feel really validated as a person, I guess.” — Jake [10:19]

• Beyond Family: Jake discusses the danger of tying all self-worth to family affection and stresses the importance of wider impact through charity and personal mission.

  “Doing this (the podcast) with you is the first time in my whole career that I feel like I’m of value… this I do feel, is of value.” — Jake [12:29]

• Notable Moment: Recounts work with Young Lives vs Cancer, seeing first-hand how supporting families in crisis provided profound meaning.

  “It was when we went to…a house, effectively, right next to a children’s cancer center... so easy to lose sight that could be any of us at any moment.” — Jake [13:28]

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3. Do You Have a Sense of Purpose? (Directedness)

“Do you have a sense of purpose?” — Damien [14:37]

• The question of directedness – whether your actions and values are aligned toward a guiding purpose.

Key Clip: Shaun Wayne, England Rugby League Head Coach [14:57]

• Shaun’s childhood adversity and commitment to never inflict pain he experienced on others become the source of his professional and personal purpose.

  “My dad beat me to a pulp…but what that did…If ever I have kids, they’re never going to feel this way. So it made me a better dad.” — Shaun Wayne [14:57]

Personal Reflection: Jake

• He admits not having a fixed “purpose,” preferring instead Susie Marr's idea of “infinite purpose”—being incrementally better each day and comparing only to one's previous self.

  “I don't feel that I have really found my purpose… I love the idea of infinite purpose from Susie Marr…just be a step ahead today…that’s probably my purpose.” — Jake [15:57]

• Values:
  • Empathy over opinion
  • Helping others realize their potential
  • Championing curiosity and exploration

  “Empathy over opinion…making people realize the potential that they've got…curiosity and having a mind of exploration probably beats just about everything else.” — Jake [17:29]

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4. Do You Have a Sense of Belonging? (Connectedness)

“Do you have a sense of belonging, feeling like you’re part of something bigger?” — Damien [18:00]

• Belonging is explored as the need for authentic, nourishing relationships—not just professional or familial status.

Key Clip: Dr. Rangan Chatterjee [18:20]

• Describes a high-achiever whose malaise stemmed from social isolation, not a lack of traditional “success.” Prescribed weekly, in-person connections transformed his wellbeing.

  “He didn’t have a serotonin deficiency, he had a friendship and relationship deficiency.” — Dr. Chatterjee [20:03]

Personal Reflection: Jake

• Candidly admits periods of professional isolation, neglecting friendships in pursuit of broadcast success.

  “Not long ago I was in exactly the position that that person was in…if you said to me, who will you ring if you’ve got an issue? I probably would have said, nobody.” — Jake [24:43]

• Describes making conscious efforts to have deeper, more honest interactions:

  • Initiating real conversations with friends (e.g., “What’s keeping you up at night?”)
  • Creating intentional opportunities for connection: monthly dads’ curry nights and regular sauna sessions with his brother

  “The first thing I need to do is live like the kind of person I talk about…lean into people…have proper conversations.” — Jake [25:13] “It’s really brave…as men we often rarely open up, very rarely the idea of making friends…” — Host [27:25]

• Realizes most people also miss deep connection; simple intimate gestures (like a long hug or reassuring touch) can meaningfully reduce loneliness.

  “If you just try and go a tiny little bit deeper… sometimes it’s not even the conversations…just putting your hand on them…for just 10 seconds… a moment of connection.” — Jake [28:04]

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Memorable Quotes & Takeaways

• On Risk & Vulnerability

  “Every time there is a culture of conformity, for me it's impoverishing. It really strips away people's ability to take that risk.”
  — Dr. Pippa Grange [03:44]

• On Family and Significance

  "When your children are born… you stop and go ‘Oh my goodness, that’s how much my parents loved me.’"
  — Jake [10:19]

• On Purpose from Pain

  "If ever I have kids, they're never going to feel this way. So it made me a better dad."
  — Shaun Wayne [14:57]

• On Real Belonging

  “He didn’t have a serotonin deficiency…he had a friendship and relationship deficiency.”
  — Dr. Rangan Chatterjee [20:03]

• On Small Steps to Connection

  "If you try and go a tiny little bit deeper…life is so much more exciting, interesting and fulfilling."
  — Jake [28:04]

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Important Timestamps

• [03:44] — Dr. Pippa Grange on risk and coherence
• [05:12] — Jake's Triple H reflection: hero/grandpa, hardship, and highlight
• [09:16] — Musician H on the deep impact of his sister
• [13:28] — Jake’s moment of meaning from charity work
• [14:57] — Shaun Wayne’s adversity shaping his purpose
• [18:20] — Dr. Rangan Chatterjee on belonging and friendship deficiency
• [25:13] — Jake’s shift to deeper friendships and connections
• [28:04] — Final insights on the art of real connection

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Conclusion: Four Questions for Your Own Life

Damian summarizes the episode by inviting listeners to reflect on these four questions:

1. Who do you truly connect with? Who do you belong to?
2. Where are those moments that truly matter for you (significance)?
3. Have you identified your purpose—the thing you do that makes a difference?
4. Does your life add up—do you live in a way that feels coherent and authentic?

The episode closes with an encouragement to examine these areas honestly—taking inspiration from stories, values, and practical tips shared throughout.

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Transcript

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[Damien]

welcome to High Performance. This is one of our regular episodes where we reflect on the rich array of guests who've joined us over the last five years. And we pick out of that some of the lessons that we've learned along the way. Now I get to take the reins today because I was recently reading a book that featured an interview with the existential psychologist Titania Schnell who suggested that to live a high performance life it needs to be coherent. Does your life add up significant? Do you feel that you matter and make a difference? Directed that you have a purpose and that you belong, that you're part of something bigger? And after I read that this is how life tends to work, I listened to an interview that Steve Kerr, the head coach of the Golden State warriors said where he described that he wanted his guys to feel valued, respected, important and relevant. So these are the four questions I

[Host/Interviewer]

think we could all do with asking ourselves.

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[Jake]

I love that Damien.

[Host/Interviewer]

Well, if we share some clips then Jake, I'd be interested in getting your response to them.

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Yeah.

[Jake]

And I think, you know, just for clarity for people listening, this is your work. I'm. I've just been told to sit down and listen. So I don't know what we're going to do, what we're going to talk about, but I think I, the, my, my entire role on high performance, right. For the last five years has been the not so clever one. So I'm more than happy just to play the fool on this occasion and ask the questions that people at home might be thinking.

[Damien]

Well, you definitely do yourself a disservice, Jake.

[Host/Interviewer]

But let's start with the first one

[Damien]

of does your life add up?

[Host/Interviewer]

Is it coherent? And I thought we'd go and listen to one of my favourite guests that we've had on the brilliant Dr. Pippa Grange.

[Dr. Pippa Grange]

What does extreme elite performance require? Risk. You have to be vulnerable enough to put yourself out there. And every time there is a culture of conformity, for me it's impoverishing. It really strips away people's ability to take that risk to stand up. You would have read in the book the Richmond Tigers afl, their triple H exercise which actually came from Atlanta Falcons NFL which was being able to stand up and say to tell a story of a hero, hardship and highlight in their own life. And you know, for all these, these guys had endured and tolerated and the whole world looks at them as brave. Doing that where it was personally vulnerable was probably the biggest breakthrough piece that they could have that allowed them to go into a different zone where they dropped fear, you know, and they raised intimacy and things like that's like taking a risk that's non conforming and it's so powerful.

[Host/Interviewer]

So Pippa there talks about an exercise that is commonly used in lots of high performing teams. Jake the hero, the highlight of the hardship that helps people understand the coherent

[Damien]

story of their teammate stood in front

[Host/Interviewer]

of them and how they've got there. So if you were to answer the three Hs, who are your hero, what was your highlight and what's the hardship you've overcome?

[Jake]

Oh, that's a great question. My first hero. I say first because I think like life changes as you go. Like, you know, I would put Harriet as one of my heroes, I'd put you as one of my heroes. I'd put Sunlight, Run, Whisper with as one of my heroes. But the first person I looked at as a hero was my grandpa because he was a police officer and he was always well turned out. It's really weird. He. I know this sounds the most random thing in the world. He taught me to blow my nose, right? So I remember, I remember distinctly sitting on his knee and he held a tissue and was like, now blow. It's a simple thing, but you don't know how to blow your nose when you're three years old. And he always had his shoes really well polished and he wanted to be a police officer. And then I then wanted to be a police officer. And actually that leads on to a hardship. And it's not the greatest hardship. You know, losing my grandma, as you know, to suicide was very hard. Being bullied and changing schools was hard. There was a few other tricky things along the way. But I dreamed of being a police officer. And When I was 7, I had a colorblindness test at school and I did the colorblindness test. They said to me, you're colourblind. I was like, oh, okay. And these are all the jobs you can't do. And police officer was on the list. And I went home and cried to my mum. I then tried to apply to be a special police officer when I was 18, thinking that maybe they wouldn't test my colorblindness. And they did and I failed again. So that was definitely a hardship relating to my grandpa. And what's the final one?

[Host/Interviewer]

Highlight.

[Jake]

Highlight. Oh man. Too many to mention. My highlight was probably hosting the 2012 London Olympics for the BBC because just because it felt like I was part of a national moment. Like it felt like also when you've come through the ranks at the BBC and you've been on kids telly and you finally get the opportunity to be a sports presenter, there's validation jobs that you get given. I remember once sitting with a guy called Ray Stubbs who was a Sports. I remember sitting with Ray Stubbs at the Sports Personality of the year in 2006 and I said to him, have you ever hosted this? And he goes, no, no, only the A list top talent get to host Sports Personality. And two years later they asked me to host it. And again with 2012, it was like a big decision. Who would they put at the front of the BBC's coverage of that Olympics. And I was lucky enough to. To be one of the hosts. So I think it gave sort of validation, really, to that kid that, you know, left home at 18 to try and become a TV presenter in London.

[Host/Interviewer]

What a brilliant story. And actually, let's go a bit further into the conversation with Pippa, because that first example of your grandpa being a hero is something that Pippa actually references.

[Dr. Pippa Grange]

So the triple H is really just an anchor for the storytelling of, you know, the hero in your life, the hardship and the highlight. And almost everybody tells a personal story. It'll be about a grandma or a person who's meant everything to them, or a moment where they felt really small and overcame. And it's humbling. It really introduces humility and the bond that comes out of doing that. Really seeing the person behind the shirt or the human being behind the role or the title is so rich.

[Host/Interviewer]

So understanding the coherence of how your life adds up to that moment of hosting the 2012 Olympics and the role of you grandpa, and that overcoming some

[Damien]

of those hardships is significant. And that leads us to the second element, which is understanding how you matter

[Host/Interviewer]

and how you make a difference. Now, there was a really powerful conversation that we had with H. Now, I

[Damien]

found it particularly resonant because he grew

[Host/Interviewer]

up in the area of Manchester where I did. But when he spoke to us, he spoke to us about somebody that was

[Damien]

really significant in his own life.

[Jake]

You wrote a song called My G, right? And you said. You said, people laugh but we're too strong for it to ever hurt. They might try and bring you down, but it will never work.

[Guest Musician]

Yeah.

[Jake]

What are the biggest things that you've learned from her?

[Guest Musician]

This might sound stupid. How to, like, how to breathe, how to, like, just realize everything's fine. Do you get what I mean? Like this girl, I wish I could get into her head and just see what she's thinking about for the day, because it's. It's so interesting. And she was just like. I don't know, she just. It's just a warm feeling. She makes everyone feel warm. She really is the star of the show. It's funny Like I'll go make platinum records and perform in front of 80, 000 people, but when I get home, I'm not the superstar she is. I'm like, yeah, man, I don't know. She's, she. She literally is an inspiration. I'm not even sitting there like trying to get soppy or anything like that, but like on a genuine one, she's just like some inspiring little person.

[Host/Interviewer]

Let's again relate this to you, Jake, in terms of the significance, like, what are the moments where you realize that who you are really matters?

[Jake]

I'm not sure I have realized that. Really? How do you mean?

[Host/Interviewer]

Well, in terms of who is it where your significance really plays the biggest part, you know?

[Jake]

Oh, right, okay. Well, having, having kids, I mean, there's a very strange moment when your children are born that you stop and you go, oh my goodness, that's how much my parents loved me. And you think about all those times that you were critical of them or dismissive of them or hard on them or made their lives difficult. And I guess I'm still in that lovely place where Flo's 11 and Seb's 9. So I'm. I remain the sun, the moon and the stars to my kids. And you just start to see it not being the case with Florence now. In fact, it's funny we're talking about it now because I've stayed overnight in London and yesterday when I left, I went to give her a kiss and for the first time ever, her eyes started flicking left and right like, who's seeing my dad give me a kiss goodbye? And that is a, like a tiny moment of heartbreak. Because it's not that moment that's heartbreaking, but it's, it's the vision into the future that soon it's going to be hard to hold. Like holding a hand will be hard and giving her a hug will be hard because other people will become more important. And that, by the way, is exactly what should happen. And the last thing I want is for my kids to be in their 40s, still living at home, thinking that the sun shines out of their dad's behind, so you need to let them go. But I feel like, yeah, at the moment that's the, that's where I feel really like validated as a person, I guess.

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah. But there's also something there about not just putting your validation in the kids affection, isn't it? There's something wider than that.

[Jake]

In what respect?

[Host/Interviewer]

Well, in terms of we need to feel that the work we do matters. You know, we've spoke about coherence, of where it fits within our life. When do you have moments when you realise that what you do, not just who you are, carries a weight of significance?

[Jake]

I think that's probably the reason why I try and do so much charity stuff. So my dad was a charity worker. So I grew up in a house where it was expected that you would take care of people in a less fortunate position than you. Where my dad could have earned more money, been more successful, had more lovely things in his life if he'd have left the charity sector to go and work in. Work in the private sector. And my sister now works for the nhs. My brother spent a long time as a teacher. I've created the High Performance foundation, worked with lots of charities. I think this sense of realizing there's more than you on this earth and you can leave something bigger is. Is something that runs through my family and I think probably is one of the reasons why stopping being a football presenter and focusing basically full time on high performance was an easier decision for me. Because doing this with you is the first time in my whole career that I feel like I'm of value. I think until now I was just talking about other people's achievements and sometimes in not a very helpful way. Should that manager be sacked, should that player be dropped? Let's focus in minute detail on that refereeing decision with more information than that refere can ever have. Why is that? If one driver made that mistake at 200 miles an hour, why is that Olympian not delivered after four years of hard work? That was my life, like asking those questions on the telly. Who's that helping? Whereas this, I do feel, is. Is of value.

[Host/Interviewer]

So have you had a moment with the Community Sport foundation or the Young Lives versus Cancer where you've realized the significance of your impact?

[Jake]

Yeah, it would be the work with young lives versus cancer, who Harriet and I worked with for many years, helping to raise money for them. And it was. It was when we went to what they call a home from home. So it's a. It's a house, effectively, right next to a children's cancer center where the parents and the child who's having treatment and the brothers and sisters can live right next to the hospital so they can still, like, live the life that they're used to. So Mum and dad can still get them up in the morning, make them some breakfast, they can go off and have their treatment. And it means the parents and the siblings are all nearby. And if you've had a long Day of treatment, you can go back there and it can be. Feel less like a hospital, more like a home. I think it was that. And the reason why that, that resonated, I think, with me so much is because it's so easy for us to lose sight of the fact that that could be any of us at any given moment. I don't know whether you agree, but I think sometimes that's the. That's the most important part of these kinds of reflections is this. It puts perspective on the life that we have, that we have in our hands at the moment. Do you know what I mean?

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah. That's really powerful. Thank you for sharing it.

[Damien]

But these four questions that we need to ask ourselves, we've first of all looked at, does your life add up then? Do you realise that you matter and

[Host/Interviewer]

can make a difference?

[Damien]

The next one is around, Is it directed?

[Host/Interviewer]

Do you have a sense of purpose? Now, before I ask you that question, I think it's worth us listening to the England Rugby League head coach Shaun Wayne, who found his own sense of purpose in pretty bleak circumstances.

[Shaun Wayne]

My dad beat me to a pulp two or three times a week and I never learned, but what that did, I remember going to bed, wanting to die when I'm 8, 9, 10. And I thought, if ever I have kids, they're never going to feel this way. So it made me a better dad, you know. So when, when Wiggin got rid of me, I thought to myself, if ever I coach, I'm never going to have a player feeling this way. I'm going to tell him everything so he knows what's coming. So I think I've learned, you know, I've learned how to be a better dad. So I've learned through, you know, I had a coach at Wigan who bullied me, tried to bully me and I wouldn't back down from anybody, but he tried it. And I remember thinking, I will never, ever have a player feeling the same way as you're making me feel now.

[Host/Interviewer]

That interview with Charl Wayne was incredibly powerful, but recognising his purpose there came from fairly bleak circumstances. Have you recognized your. Your own purpose?

[Jake]

I don't think so, no. I still feel like I'm just kind of like stumbling through, if that makes sense, and seeing what comes up. I mean, I don't believe in a huge amount of planning. I mean, one thing I do resonate with when I hear that from Sean Wayne is this idea of understanding that what is hard for you isn't necessarily bad for you. You know, that was very Difficult for him what happened to him with his dad. And, and that sort of behavior can never be condoned. But at the same time, those hard things that we experience at a young age often give us the resilience or put life into a perspective that is valuable later on in life. But I don't feel that I have really found my purpose because I think that I guess I wear like multiple hats. You know, I love the idea of infinite purpose from Susie Marr that life isn't about setting specific goals, it's about being a little bit better every day. So maybe I could answer it with that. Like, I guess my purpose is just is to not compare myself to other people. Right. But to compare myself to who I was yesterday. So if I can just be a step ahead today of where I was yesterday and tomorrow be a step ahead of where I am today, I think that's probably my purpose. And then in terms of trying to do things that are good and are valuable for other people, I think maybe that comes down less to your purpose, more to your morals.

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah. Your morals, your values. So what would you say if you were to answer that then what are, what are the three values that you hold true to?

[Jake]

Empathy over opinion.

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jake]

Making people realize the potential that they've got at their fingertips.

[Host/Interviewer]

Yep.

[Jake]

Showing people that being curious and having a mind of exploration probably beats just about everything else brilliant.

[Host/Interviewer]

Which then allows you to make decisions about what you're going to do next and whether you're going to take it

[Damien]

on, which gives us that sense of purpose and clarity. So that brings us to the fourth of what I suggest the questions we

[Host/Interviewer]

can all be asking ourselves, which is

[Damien]

do you have a sense of belonging,

[Host/Interviewer]

feeling that you're part of something bigger.

[Damien]

So when I first read about this from the existential psychologist Titania Schnell, the

[Host/Interviewer]

fourth one about feeling a sense of belonging, being part of something bigger, reminded me of this conversation that we had on the first time round with Dr. Brongan Chatterjee.

[Dr. Brongan Chatterjee]

And I'll tell you, one of my patients from a few years ago I remember so well and I think the story might resonate with your audience. 35 year old chap came in to see me. He felt a bit indifferent about life, feeling pretty low. And I was asking him about his life. And from the outside, right, this guy was crushing it. Good job, running his own business, making good money, driving a sports car. Right. He's got all those external metrics of success. And maybe people are listening right now going, yeah, that's what I want but here's the thing. I asked him because I was trying to figure out what's going on here. Why is he feeling so low? Why does he struggle to get up bed some mornings? And I said, okay, how often do you see friends? And he said, well, you know, I'm sort of, I kind of see what they're up to on social media. I see them on Facebook and Instagram, I know what they're doing. And then I said, how often do you actually see them in real life? He goes, I'm just too busy, I don't have time. So I checked other things out, but the prescription I gave to him, I said, okay, listen, for the next six weeks, I want you to see your friends in person once a week. Now, he was lucky. He lived in the town where he grew up, so his friends actually lived nearby. He just never saw them. I sent him away. He comes about six weeks later. It's like a different person. He bounces into the room. And I said, how are you feeling? He goes, Dr. Chachi, I feel great. I said, what happened? He goes, well, we started off on a Sunday morning. We'd go to the local cafe and catch a beverage latte. And then after a few weeks that led to us restarting playing five a side once a week. And essentially, I'm not exaggerating one iota here. He didn't have a serotonin deficiency, he didn't have an antidepressant deficiency. He had a friendship and relationship deficiency in his life. And he actually had the relationships. He was just too busy chasing success to actually nourish them.

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[Pablo Torre]

hey, this is Pablo Torre from Pablo Torre Finds out and today I want to talk to you about Boost Mobile. In sports, there's always pressure to chase the next big thing, but sometimes the smartest play is sticking with what's already working for you. Boost Mobile gets that if your phone is running fine, you should not have to buy a new one just to get a better deal. Bring your phone to Boost Mobile and get unlimited wireless for just $25 a month. Forever. No contracts, no price hikes. Visit Boost Mobile unlock your phone 25 forever requires customers to remain active on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan.

[Host/Interviewer]

Powerful stuff. So yeah, who do you belong to that nourishes you?

[Jake]

Well, I would definitely say Harriet, my wife, but I would also say for a long time I was the bloke that wrong and Chatterjee was talking about there because, you know, I left Norwich to go make it in television and then I was on kids telly and I had to put my everything into being on kids tv. And then I got an opportunity to host Formula One and I had to basically, not in a ruthless way, but I had to not see the people I was on Kids TV with anymore because they were busy working on Kids TV and I had to go and travel the world doing Formula One and I couldn't afford to mess that job up because I was given a one year contract and told by my boss at the time, people don't make their minds up about you within 30 seconds. If their minds are made up in a bad way, that could be it for you. This was my one opportunity and that was a lonely job because I felt the weight of responsibility. So while everyone else was out drinking and partying around the world with F1, I was fully focused on getting that job. Right. And then I eventually got an opportunity to go to BT Sport and again, it was a big risk. And my boss in that instance said to me a week before, he said, how do you feel about the fact that BT have gambled the best part of a billion quid on this and you're the one that's responsible for making it successful or not? So again, the responsibility meant I didn't really enjoy that and I didn't really socialize much. I just focused on trying to be the best football presenter that I could be. And then when I stopped doing that and I come and trying to make high performance as great as it can be, I don't see the guys I used to work with on football. So not long ago I was in exactly the position that that person was in and I definitely, I wasn't lonely because I'm busy and I've got lots going on. But if you said to me, who will you ring if you've got an issue? I probably would have said, nobody. Right?

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jake]

Which is an embarrassing thing to admit as a guy in your 40s and not a great place to be. But I think it wasn't just the constant changing of jobs and this, for whatever reason, drive and desire to be successful that had caused all of that. I think it also slipped into a place where my conversations with people, particularly other blokes, I were just not very fulfilling. And it's not from their responsibility. That's my responsibility. So I just really do struggle with small.

[Damien]

How are you?

[Jake]

What you been up to?

[Damien]

Where are you going on a holiday?

[Jake]

What? Like I have this voice in my head going, I don't give a where this person's gone on holiday and they don't give a what I'm going on holiday and how our kids are and how their kids are and. And what had happened was I'd allowed myself to. Not to stop having real conversations, basically because I was busy doing other things. So then I had to make a conscious effort to go, right, the first thing I need to do is live like the kind of person I talk about. We should be on high performance. Right. Which is lean into people, which is understand people a bit more. And it actually came from me trying to have proper conversations. So when I'm seeing my mates no longer going, how's life? How are the kids? I would say things like, are you running? I know you run your own business. I know it's hard out there. How are you actually getting on? Or friends who just had a kid. Like, I remember when our kid was born and it was properly affecting and it made you quite lonely. What's the biggest struggle you've got at the moment? Those kinds of questions, or like, what's keeping you up at night at the moment, is one that I found really opened people up. And what I liked about that was, as soon as you asked those kinds of actual valuable questions, they would then start asking you really valuable questions. That was really good and it helped a bit. But then after a bit of nagging from Harriet, I also had to go one step further and actually start trying to socialize with people a bit more.

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jake]

So she convinced me to create, like, a group of a few dads that my kids schooled, and we go out and have curry once a month. You know, I had a sauna put in my garden at the start of the year. I've asked my brother to come over every Monday morning, and me and him sit and just sit in the sauna together for 20 minutes. Because I think you drift away from your siblings. Right. Which is heartbreaking as a parent of two kids. So it's just trying to lean into people a little bit more and accepting that in my work life, it is always going to be that sort of transient thing.

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Jake]

Because I think that's probably, like a lot of people's work lives. We no longer have a job for life anymore. So I think we mustn't be looking towards our work life necessarily for all of those connections. We need to try and find them in the life that we have at home. And then, of course, you have a wife or a husband or a partner, but I think also there's. There's something that that relationship can't give you and maybe shouldn't give you, that you should be getting elsewhere.

[Host/Interviewer]

So let me ask you then, what are the benefits? Thank you for sharing that because I like you say, I think it's really brave. And I don't think as men we often open up. Very rarely the idea of making friends.

[Jake]

Yeah.

[Host/Interviewer]

Can be hard.

[Jake]

And actually I used to come, you might sense this, I used to come home from like a night out, a few drinks with some mates and Harry. But what'd you talk about? And I'm like just not much really. Yeah. She'd come home and tell me all these amazing in depth things they discussed. And so I, I remember thinking, well, we need to talk a bit more. Like this kind of a conversation we're having is what I want blokes listening to this podcast.

[Host/Interviewer]

But I think what I want to explore with you there is, what have you seen in the benefits of doing that? Of leaning into people?

[Jake]

Well, mate. An empathy and understanding that other people are struggling. You know how you always have a view that your life is a struggle and everyone else's is easy. Once you start saying what's keeping you up at night, you very quickly realize that there is a lot going on. And also I think we're guilty of assuming someone's behavior tells them what they think about us. It's absolute nonsense. Someone's behavior tells us what they think about their life. Right.

[Host/Interviewer]

Say what you mean by that.

[Jake]

So if someone's quiet or a bit off with you, or a bit distant, you assume, oh, they don't like me very much. That's not true. What you assume, realize if you ask them how they are, is that they've got so many friggin things spinning around in their head they almost haven't got any spare capacity to connect with you properly. But if you connect with them, then that's great. I think the, the final thing which has been the biggest realization is that I used to think that everyone else had loads of mates and a great like fulfilling social life. Until you start going out and having proper conversations with your mates who then start going, I've not had a conversation like this for years with anyone. Yeah, yeah. And you're like, neither have I. And then your other mate goes, I haven't spoken like this ever with anyone, including my parents. And you start having these great connections and life is so much more exciting, interesting and fulfilling. If you kind of make a decision that whenever you're with someone you just try to connect, even if it's for a few seconds on a level a little bit beyond the basic, that standard relationship. If you just try and go a tiny little bit deeper. And actually sometimes it's not even the conversations that you have, it's almost just like when you leave, just like putting your hand on them and going, listen, have a brilliant weekend. Just me holding your arm like that for just 10 seconds is like, oh,

[Mint Mobile Advertiser]

yeah, I felt that.

[Jake]

You know what I mean?

[Host/Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah. Moment of connection.

[Jake]

A moment of connection. You know, they say you have to cuddle after 60 seconds. When you cuddle your kids in the morning, it starts to release endorphins for you and for them. So your. Your hugs should be long. I'm not saying hug every friend of yours for 60 seconds every day because you get nothing done. And people might think it's slightly strange, but try and have that connection that releases those endorphins and makes you feel slightly less lonely in a world where it can actually feel like you're very busy but very lonely.

[Host/Interviewer]

That's brilliant.

[Damien]

And it goes back then to the four questions that we encourage you to maybe think about asking yourself. First of all, think about who you connect with, who you belong to. Second one is think about the significance. Where are those moments that truly matter? The third is something around your purpose. Have you identified what it is that you do that makes a difference? And then finally, think about the coherence of making sure that your life adds up. Thanks for listening to us. If you've got any questions that you want us to answer, you've got any thoughts you want to share with us and reflect on, feel free to get in touch with us via any of the platforms that are available. And we look forward to catching up with you again next time.

[Pablo Torre]

Hey, this is Pablo Torre from Pablo Torre finds Out. And today I want to talk to you about Boost Mobile. In sports, there's always pressure to chase the next big thing. But sometimes the smartest play is sticking with what's already working for you. Boost Bumble gets that if your phone is running fine, you should not have to buy a new one just to get a better deal. Bring your phone to Boost Mobile and get unlimited wireless for just $25 a month. Forever. No contracts, no price hikes. Visit Boost Mobile, unlock your phone. $25 forever requires customers to remain active on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan.

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