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The High Performance Podcast
What Olympian David Smith Taught Us About Living Whilst Facing Death
00:30:50
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- [00:00]
Pablo Torre
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- [00:57]
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- [01:02]
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- [01:48]
Jake
Hey, Damien, how's it going?
- [01:49]
Damian
Hey, I'm good, Jake. You?
- [01:51]
Jake
Great, thank you. And obviously this is, this is a very different conversation to one that we would normally have on high performance because we want to talk about someone who had a profound impact on us. Someone who since we spoke to him a couple years ago, has left us thinking about him, often keeping in touch with him. And that man is David Smith. I think before we hear from David, I think it'd be great if you could tell us the story of how we first met. One of the most incredible guests we've ever had on the show.
- [02:18]
Damian
Yeah, you're right. I think no adjective we could use to describe him quite captures just how special David is. So, back in 2024, me and you were invited to be part of Fern Cotton's Happy Place Festival up in Tatum park, just outside of Manchester. And. And we thought it'd be great to do a live interview in front of an audience. And when we were sort of thinking about who we'd invite to capture the messages, we were put onto David through his friend James Burr, who suggested that David's message would be one that would be incredibly profound. He'd been given a terminal diagnosis for the cancer that he was suffering from, and he explained that he wanted to come and share some of the lessons on how to live better whilst he was facing his own death sentence. And he sat in front of an audience that day, you'll remember Jake, and he held over 300 people spellbound. We were sat in that tent and his message is about, put your phone down, connect with people, learn to smell the roses. Still lives with me today. I brought my son George to the event with us. And George still speaks about the impact of chatting with David afterwards, where he was kind, he was interested, he was curious about my son's life and he was passing on lessons to him. He's a living, walking, talking embodiment of somebody that's out there who's making a difference. So I'm delighted that we just get a chance to talk about him, specifically on this episode, and share some of his incredible lessons.
- [04:04]
Jake
So David is a very special guy, as you heard there from Damien, and I've really enjoyed following him on social media for the last few years, since we met. This is a guy who is at the hospital in London having scans and the following week is learning to ski. This is a guy who gets the news that he didn't want, that maybe there's a growth or he's waiting for some news from the doctors and he takes himself to Jamaica. This is a guy who refuses to stop living. This is a guy who before long is going to be a dad. This is a guy who has so much that we can learn from. And David's about to tell you that in the last little while, he had some. Well, he had a terrible moment. He had some really bad news and things have been a struggle for him since then. But in some ways I feel bad even saying things have been a struggle because I know things are hard for this guy. But as you're about to hear, he's a guy who continues to dance. So I messaged David and I said, look, what's going on. Is there anything that we can do? And his reply was incredible. He said he still feels he has a lot that he wants to tell the world. And I said, well, please tell us. So despite being unable to move, he managed to get his phone and record this for us. Now, the audio isn't incredible, but he is a guy who is in hospital having treatment and the fact that he's taken time out to share these things with you, this is not stuff for you to just dismiss. This is something that I really would love you to listen to carefully and reflect on. So here is a voice note from David Smith.
- [05:40]
David Smith
Hi mate, I'm just going to see if this works. If not, I will try when my wife is in tomorrow to sort of improvise. So it's been a pretty crazy few months. Three months ago the tumor metastasized in my brain and I needed double brain surgery. Then in the last three months that little stubborn spinal tumor started to pop up some nodules again. And then two weeks ago I was back in the gym, boxing, playing golf and trying to make a difference in the world around me. And at 2:50 I got a little bit of a pain in the back of my neck. By 2:55 I started to lose all function in my body. I had enough strength in my finger to call my wife so she could get home in time. As I thought I was about to die. By 3pm I was a complete quadriplegic. Thankfully Angela made it home, we got an ambulance and I was rushed into hospital and moved into palliative care. But those words, the mean average is four months. But now I'm not buying that. And I'm going to show up, fight it as hard as I can to the very, very last breath. Becoming a full quadriplegic has certainly been a fairly big challenge. I'm not going to lie. I don't see myself as this super strong person or anything else. I'm just a normal guy from a small village in Scotland with a zest for life. And my only intention every day is to try and make people smile. And when I think about that, it makes me think a lot. I have a beautiful view over London right now in my ward, which I feel extremely lucky to have. I also see the prayer in my bed on that dreadful Wednesday afternoon as I became a full quadriplegic because I fully believed that that was going to be the last seconds on this planet and I wasn't going to get to say goodbye to my loved ones and friends. So I believe I've been given a gift. And however long that gift is, now I'm going to dance with the music. And that made me think a lot about life. It made me think that how we talk about the journey to the destination and how that is a great allure to the ego, that I will be happy when I get to the destination, I will be happy when I get there, I will be happy when I achieve this. Where actually you then miss the journey because you're so focused on the destination. And then that led me to think, well, what if we just changed the narrative and said that life is a dance with the music. And if you go to a not pro or a music concert, you don't go to get to the end. You go to the be with the beat of the music, to dance with the music, to laugh, to smile. And then I started to realize that life is all about love, friends, relationships, experiences, and the material stuff. And the noise, does it really matter? Do we sweat the small stuff too much? And then I started to think a lot about stillness. And at the moment I'm completely still because I can't move any body part. So I get to watch the sunrise over the morning city of London, which I can tell you now is so beautiful. The orange reflection in the skyscrapers, the sun hitting the buildings. And I just be. And I just spend all day watching every cloud change. There are no gray clouds merging off the buildings. And I feel incredibly lucky that I get that experience. It's such a beautiful dance with the music. So when it comes to the dance with the music, my music is not over yet. I feel like my song is still playing extremely loud and I'm still dancing. Even though I can't move, I can still have a massive change in the world around me. And as I move into this transition, I don't like to see it as death. I like to see it as a transition. How can I help people when I'm no longer physically here in the specimen body, when I finished a book from my hospital bed that will hopefully help guide others in the future if they're facing similar challenges. But ultimately, however long I have lived, I want to make people smile. I want to make people see the joy even in the toughest situations. Thinking about the toughest situations. Why should we wait to the toughest situations to try and make some form of change or joy? There is beauty all around us if we just slow down and just be and just tune into our senses. And as spring is arriving now, people are sending me videos of animals from the park. And flowers. And I'm ever so grateful to see that and live those moments each morning or each evening. And talking about the evening when the lights of London come alive. I'm looking at St. Paul's in the Shard. I just think how lucky I have been to have lived so many beautiful experiences. And in my hope that I have helped people change their lives for the better. But I'm truly grateful for both you and Damian and the team at high performance and to provide this opportunity. I hope I'm still alive to possibly hear it, But I put all my faith in your moral fiber that together, hopefully, this can shape a better future, not just for cancer patients, but for everyone living on this incredibly beautiful planet that we have and to remember, approach every day with compassion, curiosity, and courage and ultimately be where your feet are.
- [11:50]
Jake
You know the biggest thing that lands with me, the amazing David Smith. And a voice note that he sent us. And, David, I know that you wanted us to have this conversation on the show, and I'm so pleased that we are. And, brother, I'm so excited that you remain with us to be able to dance with life. And I think, Damian, this idea of dancing with life is so fascinating because in so many ways, what David's doing is a dance. He's having to dance around the fact that one week it's good news and then it's bad news, and then it's uncertain news. And you can get so caught up and so twisted up with that stuff. It can restrict you. It can hold you back. But he continues to dance, and I think that is such an important concept that we all have to understand a bit more deeply, don't you think?
- [12:32]
Damian
Absolutely. I think the grace that David's shown in the face of such traumatic news is incredible. Just following on from the voice note that we've just listened to, I'd sent David a message when I first heard that things had taken a turn for the worse. And this is what I just want to read what he said to me, and I'll explain why it's significant afterwards. But he said, cheers, mate. It's nice to hear from you. It's been a crazy few weeks. One second you walk in, the next second, you're a full quadriplegic told that you've got four months left to live. This is a bit that stuck with me. He said, that's okay. I'm very much ready to transition. I've had a beautiful life. I've had some wonderful friendships. I've been in love. I've traveled the world, and I've hopefully helped change other people's lives. Palliative care is definitely an interesting place with some beautiful conversations. I'm not going to give up. I'm going to fight, because that's what I know. But I'm also very calm and accepting of this beautiful transition in the circle of life. I mean, I'm choking up even as I read out that message from him, because there's a couple of things that he told us at the Happy Place Festival that he's still living today, even under the most extreme circumstances. The beautiful conversations, you know, that can only happen when you put your phone down. That can only happen when you're willing to make the space. That can only happen when you listen, when you're curious, when you ask questions. And it sort of made me stop about the busyness of life and start making that bit of time to catch up with people that really matter to me. To go beyond the how are you? No, no, how are you? Really? That kind of stuff is David's legacy to me. And, you know, hopefully anybody listening to this might just be inspired to just have their own moment of putting the phone down and connecting with the people that really do count the most in their lives.
- [14:33]
Jake
There's also a line from. From David, one of the most remarkable things that has ever been said, probably on our show, that, you know, that line of sport gave him the body to deal with cancer. Cancer taught him how to live. And so often, Damien, it's that news that people get that teaches them how they have to live. And I think one of the saddest things is that. And David isn't this guy. But some people are waiting for these moments to then finally decide that they're gonna live, to finally move forwards with their life, to finally sense freedom. And I guess the message here is don't wait for that moment, that moment of bad news to finally start to live.
- [15:08]
Damian
Yeah, 100%. Yeah. But, like, there's a part of me thinks we know this stuff. Like, I remember reading that book from Bronnie Ware called the Lessons from the Dying. She was a palliative care nurse in Australia that wrote a book about the things that people told her on the deathbed. And it's all about, I wish I'd have had the courage to live the life that I wanted to, or wish I'd have made more time to spend bits with people that we know. It's all stuff that when you hear it, you go, yeah, I know that. I know that I should do it. But then we Forget it. It's like sand through our hands that the sort of runs through and then you forget it. And the business of life and getting on with stuff then means that you relegate the stuff that's most important, the stuff that's most urgent. I think if there's a call to arms for this, it's about. For. Not like we're not saying anything revolutionary, we're saying, but essentially is common sense, what most of us know. But I think there's a challenge for us all to say, how. How does our life reflect that? You know, it's the old Jim Collins, a management writer, talks about the wallet and the diary test. How does the. The places you spend your money and the time and the places you spend your time match up to your priorities and the values of what's most important here? And if there's one piece of advice. I'm not a big one for dispensing advice, but if there's one piece of wisdom I'd like to share from David's experiences and the wisdom he's sharing with us is that question about, are you prioritising your time and your money into the places that matter most to you?
- [16:49]
Jake
What about the fact as well, Damien, that this is a guy who's in a hospital bed? It's a guy who's struggling, it's a guy who's fighting for his life, but it's also a guy who's written a book and finished the book whilst in hospital, whilst paralyzed as a quadriplegic. I mean, what this tells us about purpose blows my mind, quite frankly.
- [17:08]
Damian
Yeah, definitely. It reminded me when I knew he was writing a book. There's a. There's a great book that came out in the late 1990s called the diving Bell and the Butterfly by a guy called Jean Dominique Borby who had locked in syndrome. And he wrote a book just using the blink of his eye to indicate what letter it was. And again, I'd urge anybody, if you sort of need a reminder about the fragility of life and how fleeting it is, get that book and read it. This is a man that just writes his reflections on the life that he's once taken for granted, about the meals that he recounts that he wishes he could have now, the simple pleasures he got from playing with his children. I can't wait to read David's book because I think it'll have a similar impact in terms of what the Jean Dominique Barbie book did on me and
- [18:02]
Jake
those three values that he has. Compassion, curiosity and courage. That daily mantra of be where your feet are. I mean, should we play people? The story that he told us about the Italian waiter.
- [18:14]
Damian
Yeah, go on.
- [18:16]
David Smith (continued reflections)
Life happens and we all become humans. And that space between stimulus and response sometimes goes. And I turned up to a restaurant in London and I wanted to sit outside, but the waiter didn't want to put me outside, he wanted to put me inside. So my best self didn't show up. The younger athlete showed up, no, I want to sit outside. And we had this bit of an argument. So I sat down, eventually getting my way, and sat outside. And I thought, that's not who you are.
- [18:39]
David Smith
That's.
- [18:40]
David Smith (continued reflections)
Upon reflection, I did a mental journal in my mind. I thought, that's not the human I want to be. It's not who I hold myself accountable to, the values I live. So when he came back to the table, I said, look, I'm very sorry for not being nice. I don't think that's who I want to be. And he said, look, don't worry about it. My brother just got diagnosed with a brain tumor. I was probably short with you, and I was like, oh, wow, I have a tumor too. And the two of us started crying and he was Italian, so we were hugging each other and it all got quite emotional. And I had a great meal. He looked after me. But a year later, I went back to the same restaurant and he was very rude to me and this is life happening. And I said, how's your brother? And he stopped in all of the rush and all of the noise, and he looked up and he went, ah, David, I have your seat for you. Clear the restaurant, bring him in. And for me, it was a great example of compassion, of being curious as well. We're all going through stuff and I think it's easy to jump in the car in the morning, go to work and get road rage and cut people and life happens, right? And I think so many people, it's a little bit cliche, but we are all dealing with stuff. I think one in two people are impacted with cancer. So it's inevitable you're going to come across somebody in your working day that is dealing with something pretty big. And I think for me, that was compassion and awareness and curiosity.
- [20:04]
Jake
Such an amazing story and tells us so much about him.
- [20:06]
Damian
But those three values of being kind, being curious and being compassionate. I know, I know he won't mind me saying it, but our brilliant producer Will has printed them off after meeting with David and has got them up on the wall of his office. Cause they really resonated with him, as I'm sure they will do for anybody that hears David's incredible story.
- [20:28]
Jake
I mean, there are lots of books that we'd love people to read. Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl. David cited this as one of the two most important books he's ever read. I mean, it's. I don't want to say too much about it. All I want to tell people is it's the most important thing that you will ever read in your life. And if David feels that, I certainly feel that as well. What would you like to add?
- [20:51]
Damian
Well, I've already quoted to here Jake Bronnie Ware's book Lessons from the Dying and Jean Dominique Bobby's the Diving Bell and the Butterfly.
- [21:01]
Jake
Well, I'm now going to finish this episode with a message that I actually got just a few days ago from David. I'll just read it out to you. Hey, Jake, I just want to let you know I got the news yesterday to tell me that my cancer has shrunk by 8 millimeters after radiotherapy and only four weeks post radio. It was a pretty overwhelming day, but it means I'm not about to go anywhere in the next four months, which is what I originally thought, as we're now pushing up the drugs and this thing has a high chance of shrinking more. I know. I just need to get into rehabilitation and get these arms and legs moving. Wishing you and the family a great day ahead. I mean, Damien, the fact that he comes with good news. Wow. The fact he then follows up with optimism is incredible. But the thing that really sums up this guy, that at the very end there he spends a few sentences wishing me and my family well. I mean, I don't believe I've ever met a more incredible man than David Smith in my life.
- [21:58]
David Smith
No.
- [21:59]
Damian
These giants walk amongst us and I think it's a real privilege that when you get a chance to meet, to talk to them and to learn from them, we've got to appreciate it.
- [22:09]
Jake
Anything else you'd like to say, Damien?
- [22:11]
Damian
Well, I mean, we've covered some of the incredible life lessons that David taught us while facing death, but let's listen to some of the other pearls of wisdom that he shared with us on that beautiful afternoon in Tatham Park.
- [22:25]
David Smith (continued reflections)
When I first went into hospital, I was a hundred kilo rower. And after three weeks I woke up at 65 kilos after suffering a stroke and having my first tumor removed. And that was the first time, I guess, my ego died. I wasn't worried how big My arms were. I wasn't worried about the six pack that you've longed for for so many years. It really put into perspective just how beautiful this gift is of life and how important it is, but also how we get so hung up on things that really don't matter. And I know it's easy to say and cliche to say, but it really is. When it's all said and done and you're lying in an ICU ward in the highlight of your day as a bed bath after you've pooed yourself, it really puts so much into perspective. And I think at that point I detached from the physical being and tried to transcend into more of a spiritual, mindful place.
- [23:22]
Damian
So just go back to that phrase that you use there. That was the day the ego died. Would you explore that a little bit more for us, tell us what that means and what it did mean in that next stage for you?
- [23:34]
David Smith (continued reflections)
Yeah, I think we get a lot of our sense of self and how we perceive other people perceive us. And I think at that point I purely identified with what an athlete was. And in the Olympic motto, it's situated Fortius, so faster, higher, stronger, so. So I had to be this 6 foot 4, powerful athlete. And then all of a sudden you're lying in a hospital bed, you can't sit up, you're relying on people to feed you, wash you, dress you. And at that point I detached completely from the ego. So all of a sudden it wasn't about how other people perceived me. It wasn't that I sort of thought I was never going to be good enough until I won a world title or I went to an Olympic Games. All of a sudden it was like, well, actually it's okay just being me. It's actually okay. Leaning into the struggle, crying, being upset. I often like my emotions to the Scottish weather. There's a bundle of them. Within a minute, I go from ecstatically high to depressed to joyful happy. But I think when I lay in that hospital bed and I looked around the ward at everyone fighting for their lives and just trying to take that other breath, I was like, wow, I've chased this existential, this thing, this medal or this sort of being to try and maybe go back to my village and everyone goes, wow, you're the gold medalist. And it really didn't matter because in a hospital room where everyone's fighting for their life, you realize that actually just waking up in the morning and breathing is one of the best gifts that will ever be given. I think the one Thing I always say to myself when it got hard is I always ask myself why I started. And I was always very clear on my why. I've done a lot of work with psychologists and studied psychology, and I realized if I had was very clear on my personal philosophy, very clear on my purpose for each day, my purpose as a son, a brother, an athlete, a husband, whatever that may be. Very clear on my purpose. And also always reminded myself, why did you start?
- [25:33]
Damian
So what was your answer to that question? Why?
- [25:36]
David Smith (continued reflections)
So when I went through surgery, 1 and 2. Why I started is because I wanted to be a world champion, and I wanted to be the best in the world at what I did. If you ask me that now, it's a completely different answer. It's more about trying to make people see how important life is. We come into this world on an inhale and we leave on an exhale, two very, very powerful, defining breaths. But every breath we take is defining. I often challenge people to say, did you wake up this morning, put your feet on the floor and say that you were grateful for your feet? Were you grateful for the legs that took you here today? I know you're tuning into our breath, but on an average day, how aware are we of these breaths that we take and just how amazing they are, how special they are? And now when I feel like I want to give up, I say to myself, well, David, you have a purpose of understanding what it's like to be on the edge of mortality and face your death. But you also know the real beauty in humanity, the real beauty in the world. And I sort of feel that if I can share that, then people might not have to go through what I've gone through to have the death of the ego and to wake up just to how amazing life can be.
- [26:49]
Jake
So on those difficult days, when you wake up in the morning and the first thought is, why has this happened to me? I used to compete for my country as an elite athlete. What are the tools that you employ in those moments?
- [27:02]
David Smith (continued reflections)
So I think for me, it was dialing down on my values. So, again, I believe we can train three things in life. We can train our body, which most of us do. We train our craft, which may be our sport, our job or work, and then it's our mind. And I don't think we're often given the toolkit to work with the mind. We're given this sort of hardware and software that is the mind and the brain, and we're sent off into the world with everything that's been inputted by our parents for the first seven years and then our teachers. And that's usually, well, you're not good enough. You're never going to get there. I guess in many ways, that's why I go back to the karate days in the dojos that I fought in. And if I was punched and knocked out, it was like I had to get back up and go again. So I think for me, on the bad days, again, I connect to how fortunate and lucky I am to be alive. I also try to observe my thoughts and feelings and emotions as a watcher with no judgment. So I tried to watch them and accept and be okay. Well, it's okay to feel shit. That's okay. I struggled a lot with survivor's guilt to start with because I was going to a spinal rehab center where people were quadriplegic, and I felt, why am I feeling bad? He's worse off than me. And that really tortured me for years. And then eventually a therapist said to me, look, it's relative to you. Of course he's going to have a bad day, but also, you're also going through some shit. It's also okay to feel bad. And I think accepting those emotions was a big part. And then for me, it's having a list of things. Knowing my values, what I really value in life, being in nature, being on my bike, being with friends. Now I liken them to the legs of a chair and they hold me up, and if you take them away, the chair falls down. When all three of them go, I won't sit here and lie to you. There's days where I don't even leave my bed. I'm banging my head on a wall, I'm crying, I'm just like, you know what? I've had enough suffering. Now I'm ready to shut my eyes and never open them again. And then some way through all of that, my phone maybe goes and someone sends me a message to say, hey, thinking of you, or, never give up. You inspire me. Or I just look out and see a simple bird land on a tree and go, wow, life is so beautiful. And there's people who. It's taken too early and they don't have the choice. When I started radiotherapy in 2019, a lot of the people I started that journey with are no longer alive. And I thought, wow, I actually owe it to them to get myself out of this bed and to get living. And I think back to the David in the hospital when he's lying in ICU in pain with tubes coming out of him and think, wow, that David would have given anything to go out and ride in the rain or just to sit and have a coffee and read a book. And I think that's the thing with humans sometimes, we always want more. And I think for me it's brought everyone so much closer. And I think that it's given me such a great appreciation of time that when I'm with you, I'm with you. So when I'm with you, I'm not on a phone. And this is, I think what my loved ones have taken from this is that when we're together, I'm with you. I'm listening to you, I'm hearing you. I'm not just sitting listening to reply or looking at my phone and doing a thousand things. And I think if you leave with anything today, leave with that. We're addicted in the dopamine rush to our devices. When you're with your friends and loved ones, really be with them, put this stuff away. And I think that's probably if I can leave anything with my family. That's been the biggest lesson from all of this. So it's been hard for them and I think it always will be because my tumor is never, well, I say never going to go away. It's something I live with for every living breath I take. So it's something that I have to navigate with my loved ones. And to be honest with you, I could probably just start crying now. I don't want to die. And yeah, it's scary. And to deal with it and know that it's going to happen again, there has to be a level of acceptance of mortality within it all. And just to make peace with that, I'm the only Scotsman that doesn't drink alcohol, but I have a beautiful 18 year old bottle of Glenfiddich in my house in Scotland and I'm actually en route to get that bottle of whiske to go and sit with my friends because I realized that in many ways it's a gift because sometimes we don't really get to sit and be with our friends and maybe say goodbyes and stuff. And for this I'm going to go and knock on some doors and sit and open this bottle of whiskey and sit and just share some stories because I realize at the end all we have is memories. Memories are made from experiences and we don't really have experiences if we don't learn to savor the moment. And saving the moment for me is about being where your feet are and being in the present moment.
- [31:55]
Jake
Well, if you've never heard the full episode where we speak to David Smith, Please go to episode 215. It will change the way you see things. Damian, thank you so much. And for you at home, please hit subscribe, Check out our episodes on YouTube as well as wherever you listen to your podcasts and we'll see you again soon. Take care of.
- [32:38]
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- [33:08]
Mia (Pet Groomer)
Say hello to Mia hey there. Mia runs a pet grooming service in Chicago, but getting new clients was rough
- [33:14]
VRBO/Acast/Verizon Ad Voice
until I started using acasta. I recorded my ad targeted pet owners in the area and let ACAST do the rest. Now people all over the city know about my grooming services.
- [33:22]
Mia (Pet Groomer)
Mia's business is looking sharp. What's your secret for happy pets and happy clients?
- [33:27]
VRBO/Acast/Verizon Ad Voice
A fresh cut, a friendly vibe and a well placed podcast ad.
- [33:31]
Mia (Pet Groomer)
Get the word out about your business through Acast. Visit go.acast.com advertise to get started.