Sixty Years of Hurt: 4. England v The Culture

Summary

The History Podcast — Sixty Years of Hurt: 4. England v The Culture
Host: David Baddiel (BBC Radio 4)
Date: June 6, 2026

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Overview

In this episode, David Baddiel explores how the English national football team has reflected and shaped broader notions of Englishness and culture, especially from the early 1990s onwards. The episode investigates the transformation of football from a symbol of lower-class masculinity and violence to a pillar of national identity, a vehicle for emotion, and a battleground for celebrity, expectation, and national self-analysis. Along the way, Baddiel and his guests dissect iconic cultural moments, interrogate the myth of England’s “Golden Generation,” and question what it really means to be English through the lens of football.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Cultural Rebirth of Football (02:05–04:57)

• Italia ‘90 and Nessun Dorma

  • David Baddiel marks Italia ‘90—and in particular, the use of Luciano Pavarotti’s “Nessun Dorma” as the BBC’s World Cup theme—as the pivotal point where football’s cultural image changed from “thugs and racists” to something almost highbrow, associating the game with “theater and art and opera.”
  • “At the time, the idea that football could aspire to theater and art and opera just seemed like a very new idea. It's the opposite of vulgar, you know, it's sophisticated and beautiful and pleasant.” — David Baddiel [02:06]

• Football and Cool Britannia

  • Football became a source of pride, with the Premier League’s emergence accompanying a sense of wider cultural self-confidence in the 1990s.
  • The reclamation of football from being an embarrassing “naughty secret” to a celebrated piece of national culture coincided with a rejuvenation across music, fashion, cooking, and art.

The Soundtrack of a New Era (05:12–07:12)

• Music & Football
  • Cultural touchstones like New Order’s “World in Motion” and Fat Les' “Vindaloo,” with their eccentric Englishness and inclusive videos, mirrored football’s new, public role in national life.
  • “The sort of absurdism and surrealism of modern English humour, which is definitely part, surely, of a modern English national identity. And it's sort of football that brings all of that together.” — David Baddiel [06:34]

Emotional Transformation & “Gazza’s Tears” (07:19–08:36)

• Changing Masculinity
  • Paul Gascoigne’s emotional display (his tears after his yellow card in Italia 90) becomes a symbol of evolving attitudes toward masculinity, emotionality, and national identity.
  • “The England team is like a screen on which we project all the things that we're working through emotionally, our own sort of national, emotional landscape.” — Pippa Grange [08:13]
  • The episode draws parallels between this and other national moments of public emotion, such as the mourning of Princess Diana.

The English Manager’s Burden & National Scapegoating (09:08–13:30)

• The Long Ball Era & Graham Taylor

  • England’s footballing identity retreats, with Graham Taylor’s “long ball” philosophy and reliance on Charles Hughes' “The Winning Formula” representing a militaristic, anti-artisanal approach.
  • The vilification of managers (Graham Taylor, Glenn Hoddle, Steve McLaren, Roy Hodgson) in the tabloid press reveals deep traditions of scapegoating and ritualized public mockery.
    • “To call somebody a turnip is particularly British. I mean, it's so baldrick, isn't it, as an insult.” — David Baddiel [10:38]

• Cancellation & Public Accountability

  • Glenn Hoddle’s sacking over comments about reincarnation is discussed as a precursor to modern “cancel culture.”

The Era of Celebrity, Branding & the Golden Generation (14:21–21:47)

• Rise of the Football Brand

  • David Beckham is portrayed as the first true football celebrity whose individual fame transcends football, owing as much to tabloids and branding as to sporting achievement.
    • “This word brand is new at the time. It's different to just fame. It shifts the power from the culture to the personality...” — David Baddiel [14:52]
  • The marketing of England footballers (Beckham, the “WAGs” phenomenon) reflects the commodification of the sport and its players.

• Tabloid Narratives & Redemption

  • Beckham’s journey from villainy (red card in 1998) to redemption is explored as a modern-day parable, mirroring a broader entertainment culture.
  • “He was a golden boy. Then he had this moment of madness... and then rose again. And I would argue that... if you mess up in entertainment, you can be rehabilitated.” — David Baddiel [16:24]

• The “Golden Generation”

  • Despite the Premier League’s global prominence and a cadre of superstar players (Beckham, Owen, Lampard, Rooney, Gerrard, Scholes), the national team is chronically unfulfilled—never translating promise into trophies.
  • “All that glitters... There was a kind of hollowness about New Labour's conception of Britain and Englishness.” — David Baddiel [21:47]

Football as a Mirror of Society and Politics (25:22–27:55)

• From Football to Olympics

  • The 2012 Olympics become a new focus of collective self-expression, while England’s football team enters a period of mediocrity, failing to unify the nation.
  • “This team was very much not about uniting the country. But then again, England at the time was not a united Kingdom.” — David Baddiel [26:32]

• Brexit & National Malaise

  • The shock defeat to Iceland in Euro 2016 is directly related to the country’s mood after the Brexit vote, symbolizing confusion and decline.
  • “I was at that tournament following Roy Hodgson's England who really struggled, who really felt like some expression of confused and leaden footed Englishness.” — Podcast Guest [27:20]

The Myth of English Exceptionalism & Systemic Failure (28:10–29:19)

• Superstition vs. Structure

  • Baddiel and his guests critique English football’s belief in innate greatness (“gold in the ground”) versus other nations’ commitment to system, tactics, and education.
  • “In other countries, the way you get a golden generation is you work hard at creating a system... English football never has been [like that].” — Podcast Guest [28:31]

• The Holy Grail & Enduring National Quest

  • The search for footballing success is recast as a kind of national myth, always just out of reach—a “mirage that hovers over football.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The beautiful game, where at the time the idea that football could aspire to theater and art and opera just seemed like a very new idea.” — David Baddiel [02:06]
• “The England team is like a screen on which we project all the things that we're working through emotionally...” — Pippa Grange [08:13]
• “To call somebody a turnip is particularly British. I mean, it's so Baldrick, isn't it, as an insult?” — David Baddiel [10:38]
• “This word brand is new at the time. It shifts the power from the culture to the personality… It shifts the power from the culture to the personality because it suggests a famous person can use marketing and messaging to control how they are perceived. The problem, though, is that in sport, you can't completely control your brand.” — David Baddiel [14:52]
• “He was a golden boy. Then he had this moment of madness… and then rose again. And I would argue that... if you mess up in entertainment, you can be rehabilitated.” — David Baddiel [16:24]
• “This team was very much not about uniting the country. But then again, England at the time was not a united Kingdom.” — David Baddiel [26:32]
• “It's interesting to think about what gold is. Gold is something you find in the ground... And that goes back to how English football traditionally has seen how to win—the kind of moral right to win and the lack of basic work that goes in trying to find it.” — Podcast Guest [28:31]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:05 – Italia ‘90, Nessun Dorma, and the cultural shift in football
• 05:00 – The convergence of football, pop music, and 1990s national identity
• 07:19 – “Gazza’s tears” and changing attitudes to masculinity/emotion
• 10:00 – Graham Taylor, “the Winning Formula,” and the legacy of scapegoating managers
• 14:21 – The dawn of the football celebrity: David Beckham, branding, and the WAG era
• 16:24 – Redemption narratives and Beckham’s influence on masculinity and sexuality
• 21:47 – The hollowness of the “Golden Generation” and national expectations
• 26:23 – The 2012 London Olympics vs. football as sites of national identity
• 27:20 – Brexit and England’s defeat to Iceland: football echoing politics
• 28:31 – Systemic critiques: English exceptionalism vs. continental preparation
• 29:19 – The enduring mythic quest for a golden trophy—the “Holy Grail” of English football

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Episode Tone & Style

The conversation is witty, nostalgic, and analytical, mixing cultural references with dry humour and moments of poignant reflection. Baddiel and his guests use playful banter and profound insights interchangeably, resulting in an episode that is both entertaining and deeply thoughtful—a fitting exploration of the dreams and disappointments of English football and national identity.

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(Adverts, intros, outros, and non-content sections have been omitted in this summary.)

Transcript

[David Bedeel]

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the uk.

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[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

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[David Bedeel]

Remember to pack the cooler with probiotic sodas.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

Sparkling waters and more summer savings await

[David Bedeel]

you at Whole Foods Market. I think one of the key shifts in how we think about Englishness and football in the modern era can be marked weirdly by this bit of singing by a morbidly obese Italian. It's been our privilege at the BBC to know you've watched it all with us. Cue Luciano

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

Italia 90 was such a

[David Bedeel]

sort of sea change in how football was perceived. It's the first time I think I heard the phrase which has become degraded since. But the Beautiful Game, where at the time the idea that football could aspire to theater and art and opera just seem like a very new idea. It's the opposite of vulgar, you know, it's sophisticated and beautiful and pleasant. When in 1990, Pini's Ness and Dorma was chosen as the theme tune for the BBC's World cup coverage, it was a moment when we were moving away from an idea of football as the preserve of thugs and racists towards a redefinition of what the sport and England could mean. Ness and Dormer Fever Pitch and Evening with Gary Inneker. Yes, I'm talking to Chris England and his fellow podcaster Nick Hancock. A number of things happened in 1990 which changed the nature of what you might call the intelligentsia thinking about football. I remember when Nick and I first met at university, we were drawn to one another because we were football fans. And that was like the naughty secret.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

Italian 90 led to all sorts of things, not just our thing, but also Premier League.

[David Bedeel]

In this episode, we'll be looking at how football found its mojo again in the early 90s, and then how over the course of the next two decades, we became obsessed with the game. Germany won England five when the Premiership started. I was just starting my career at Manchester United. How big it was going to be, I don't think anyone could have predicted. Until we end up over saturated with football and the England men's football team. England players should be ashamed of themselves. I'm David Bedeel and for the history podcast, this is 60 years of hurt. Episode four, England versus the culture. Well, some of the crowd are on the pitch. They think it's all over. But it is now. A national identity needs many components. Football historian David Goldblatt. It's a complex society. So World In Motion, which was New Order's tune for the 1990 World Cup. Literally the coolest thing going on in English music in 1990 is new order. And then you've got John Barnes rapping like a tentative Grandmaster Flash singing, you know, I'm the England man. Like, what the hell? The world has changed. This is a completely different version of England. Englishness and English football together. Ness and Dormer and World in Motion. Say it's cool. It's even kind of high cultural to like football. I think that in the early 90s, there was a gradual reclamation of football as a thing not to be ashamed of.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

Yeah, there was a confidence.

[David Bedeel]

Sports writer Barney Rone.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

It was definitely a sort of plastic prosperity. What happened in the 90s. For that brief moment, English and British culture felt confident in itself, and football's a massive part of that.

[David Bedeel]

Another song that redefines the relationship between English culture and football comes towards the end of the decade.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

Where on earth are you from?

[David Bedeel]

Me? From England. Come on, come on, come on. Blessed her football record, Alex James of Blur and Fat Les, the band he formed with Keith Allen and Damen Hurst to make Vindaloo. And I went to watch Fulham with him and Damian on his birthday, and there was this drummer just going

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

all

[David Bedeel]

the way through the match and they were singing. There's something really magical about a good football chant.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

And then you hit him with the

[David Bedeel]

we're going to score one more than you. The lyrics of Vindaloo are just a series of random English references in a mad stream of consciousness which continue into the amazing video for it. Keith Allen is this extraordinary English Pied Piper going through the streets of super diverse East London with this incredible cavalcade of English stock characters, which include black pearly kings and queens and a Max Wall impersonator. And even the goth who doesn't like football is actually part of the English football nation at the end of it. Somebody once said that the cleverer somebody is, the stupider you can be with them. I don't think I've ever been so stupid as I was with Keith and Damien. The sort of absurdism and surrealism of modern English humour, which is definitely part, surely, of. Of a modern English national identity. And it's sort of football that brings all of that together. We had the best football league in the world. Marco Pierre White was the first British chef to win three Michelin stars. You had Damien Hirst coming through. Stella McCartney. In fashion. I think it's what the government now call the UK soft power portfolio. It was suddenly a major force for good and no people or animals were harmed.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

Yeah.

[David Bedeel]

But before we get too lost in Cool Britannia, let's just rewind to where England and football kicked all this off.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

Gascoigne has had his second yellow card

[David Bedeel]

of the competition and here is a moment that almost brings tears to his eyes.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

You were able to combine the qualities

[David Bedeel]

of courage and patriotism and at the same time, not to be afraid to cry. Then after the game, we got back in the dress room and everyone was given, like, towels to dry themselves and I was given a couple of Pampers. Gazza's tears at Italia 90 are significant because the story of Englishness via football up to this point is a very male one, a very manly male one at that. The fact that we still talk about Gazza, from that era, sports psychologist, presently being played by Jodie Whittaker on BBC1's Dear England, Pippa Grange. The England team is like a screen on which we project all the things that we're working through emotionally, our own sort of national, emotional landscape. That's why they've never been allowed to be just a team. There's always a deep psychology that goes with it. There's our own projection onto it. So the fact that people responded well to that was like a little representation of turning, suppression of human expression and particularly masculinity. Gaza's tears perhaps heralded a wider change in the emotionality of England.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

Public emotion, People weeping with flags painted on their faces. And then we have the gigantic flower garden of Princess Diana's death. People weeping for weeks about that. I literally remember people getting on the train at Lewisham station carrying flowers and thinking, where are these people going? What's happening? And this was several days after she died. It really did happen.

[David Bedeel]

Yeah.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

And for some reason people wanted to emote. It was a really minor suburban form of revolution. To emote, to cry.

[David Bedeel]

One wrinkle with looking back historically and saying, of course, the 90s was when football became cool and able to emote, as England became cool and able to emote, is that the results don't quite match up. After Italian 90, this bloke takes over. How we treat England managers in our country is absolutely disgraceful. With previous manager Bobby Robson, we had been inching away from the stoic, workman like stereotype of English football. But Graham Taylor was a fan of the long ball game, which had worked well for him at Watford against, say, Burnley. It didn't work so well for England against, say, Holland. It has been humiliating and England have lost by two goals to nil. Taylor relied very heavily on a series of books by the FA director of coaching, a man called Charles Hughes, who wrote a book, ironically perhaps, called the Winning Formula.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

The only style that England has ever really come up with is direct football. It's like football is the battle of Britain. It's aerial, direct. We will overwhelm you. It involves no artistry. In fact, it's a cutting away of artistry. It's very much a kind of roundhead version of football. And that's the only serious textbook that's ever been written about how to play football. It gives you a model of who you can pick, because we need to pick quite basic footballers who will follow orders and will work this way. It kind of is militaristic. It's like national service in football.

[David Bedeel]

The England football manager, Graham Taylor has resigned six days after England failed to qualify for next year's World cup finals. Taylor's failure to get to USA 94 leads to incredible vilification of him in the tabloid press. Although football historian Gene Williams sees the particular way in which he was vilified as part of a national tradition. You know, to call somebody a turnip is particularly British. I mean, it's so baldrick, isn't it, as an insult. You could argue if you took all the sort of hurt out of it that happens to a human being there, that some of this is kind of medieval English ribbletree. Yeah. To picture him as a turnip. This license the tabloids give us to laugh at the comic destruction of the England manager is partly why he's there,

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

partly why they were introduced as a kind of lightning rod to protect the board. Like, we need a patsy, we need a strawman out the front. People appear to be incredibly passionate about this sport. The masses are revolting. It's inspiring this kind of rage and we simply can't have that. We need a disposable frontman. I think another strong thing of Englishness and England football is betrayal. It's the sense of something native being betrayed. Lions led by donkeys Paradigm. It's the Somme. It's the idea that we are being betrayed by these people who will not allow us to win.

[David Bedeel]

England managers being placed into the tabloid stock stretches from Bobby Robson after drawing in Saudi Arabia in 1988. In the name of Allah, go to Steve McLaren in 2008. Wally with the brolly on to Roy Hodgson, who through no fault of his own, has a speech impediment in. Woy. We twust stopping by Glenn Hoddle, who had a particular issue. We've hod enough. Yes, thanks. Sorry, it's gone a bit what the papers say. The England football coach Glenn Hoddle has defended his decision to use a faith healer in England's World cup preparations. Hoddle is a surprising choice as an England coach in that he was a maverick player. But having said that, he doesn't pick Gazza for his 1998 squad. And maybe as a manager he was maverick in the wrong way. He employs a quite modern kind of wellness notion, a faith healer. But she is unfortunately called Eileen Drury, which sounds like your nan's friend from the pie shop. He's then sacked significantly for a non footballing reason. The Football association tonight sacked the England coach, Glenn Hoddle because of his remarks about reincarnation. He reportedly implied that disabled people were suffering for sins committed in a previous life. It's an early example perhaps of what we now call cancellation. A public figure says something offensive, there's an outcry, they do an anguished defense. I accept that I made a serious error of judgment. An interview which caused misunderstanding and pain to a number of people. And then, as now, it has only one outcome. With regret, the FA and Glenn Hodle have today agreed to terminate Glenn's contract. But managers, managers. The key thing that comes with the new fashionability of football is that England players become fashionable. No, not fashionable, they become fashion. David is I Call him Golden Balls, you know, now because, I mean, David Beckham becomes the England talisman and was raised up by the tabloids to the status of a God, literally, as Richard Power, the producer of this series, explains. And I remember the sun newspaper had, like, a prayer mat that. That you put your knees. I was 8 years old, 7 years old, so I was doing that, like, right in front of the telly, watching it. Oh, you actually did it.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

Oh, my God.

[David Bedeel]

I had Beckham posters all over my wall. Prayer match. Oh, yeah. I mean, posters is one thing, but a prayer match. It was very confused at the time. But Beckham is perhaps the first footballer whose fame becomes more important than his football. And it happens at a time when fame itself is at its apogee. Beckham's fame is old school English fame, born and perpetuated in tabloids and magazines and chat show appearances, watched by millions. And these things don't really exist now. I think what Beckham represents is a certain kind of individualism. Players recognizing the power and potency of their own brand and taking control of that. This word brand is new at the time. It's different to just fame. It shifts the power from the culture to the personality because it suggests a famous person can use marketing and messaging to control how they are perceived. The problem, though, is that in sport, you can't completely control your brand. Beckham just lifted his right boot and it just caught.

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Simeone, the referee, has gone to his

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

pocket to produce a card.

[David Bedeel]

Oh, he said, beckham off. And this is awful for England. Actually, my first ever major tournament watching football was the 98 World Cup.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

I remember when he got sent off,

[David Bedeel]

I was just inconsolable. And when we lost, I ran upstairs and just ripped all my Beckham posters off the wall and was just screaming and crying.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

Do you think that somehow his vilification

[David Bedeel]

at the 98 World cup allowed a kind of affection when he went through it? Almost like a testing, you know, a testing of the metal. What I think is, which not an incredibly original thing to say, is that human beings like stories. They like narrative. We are the only animal that has narrative. And narrative, as far as we know. Yes. Well, monkeys possibly have something. Maybe they have a banana. And then later on they think, where's the banana garland? But they're just so stories. They might have great stories. Let's assume for the sake of the rest of this sentence that we're the only animal. Are you ever gonna get to the end of the. That has stories? And so therefore, there is a story that you can tell about David Beckham. Yeah, which is that he was a golden boy. Then he had this moment of madness with Diego Simeone and, yeah, he was sacrificing like Jesus on the cross of the tabloids and then rose again. And I would argue that he's part of the entertainment spectacle, rather than purely a football spectacle, is if you mess up in entertainment, you can be rehabilitated. And America particularly loves that kind of story. And I think that fall from grace for Beckham actually has made him a bigger star, globally following on Gaza's tears. Beckham also redefines masculinity and I think his attitude to fashion and the ambiguity of his sexuality, that he could appear on the front page of a gay magazine and be, you know, the first sort of gay icon in English football. And the fact that he embraced that, that's a very different kind of England and Englishness. And he's definitely metrosexual and he's definitely linked with the Spice Girls and the fame of Victoria. Well, the England team are in fact, getting plenty of support here in German Germany. That's because the FA have shipped out their wives and girlfriends to cheer them on. The Wags are now the main attraction. As all England footballers follow Beckham's suit, this need to couple famously becomes a key element of their brand. You had Victoria Beckham, Cheryl Cole with Ashley Cole, Abby Clancy with Peter Crouch, Ellen Rivers with Frank Lampard. Interestingly, the manager who takes over for much of this period, who begins with a famous victory in 2001, you may not believe it when I say this scoreline. Germany won England five, was himself extremely wagged up. And then you had chief wack Nancy Dalalio dating England's manager, Sven Gorn Eriksen. Sven in some ways felt very different, very modern. And for the first time, for an England manager, not English, I can't do anything about it. I'm a Swede and that's it. But his tabloid lifestyle fitted very well into where England as a country was at that point. The England manager has been making the headlines. Exactly how close is he to Ulrike Johnson? And as a tactician, Sven may have been a way of allowing the gatekeepers of Englishness at the FA to seem like they'd changed when they hadn't quite.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

Sven's great achievement, his whole career was built. The irony of this was built on taking English football to Sweden. He learned from the Charles Hughes playbook of forward passes. Long crosses, win the second ball. So coming to this country was simply. It was like the Beatles bringing Rock and roll to America. It was simply re importing the thing you exported. But as you say, in a suit, with some good glasses, with lots of girlfriends and with a way of talking that seemed urbane and intellect to our football culture.

[David Bedeel]

Sven's results are very English in that he raised a lot of hopes. I think we're going to do very well and I, I'm very positive about it. But in his three tournaments we go out every time at the quarterfinals, which leaves Sven sounding very English Indeed. In a 10 minute news conference he said sorry nine times. I'm sorry. I'm really sorry for, for the team, for the squad and I'm sorry for the old England fans. To be fair, one of those quarter final defeats was hardly Sven's fault. In goes a kick. Oh, and David Siemens lost it. And the free kick from Ronaldinho has deceived Seaman, who was off his line. They always remember goalie's mistakes. Yes, you know, so man might go straight to Brazil, you know, in 2002 when you make a mistake that Lyn leads to England being knocked out of the World Cup. I've always thought that Ronaldinho obviously did mean it because he's Ronaldinho. So I've never thought of it as a massive mistake on your part. I've always thought it was a very unusual bit of football from a very unusual player. Well, I call it a very unusual cross.

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[David Bedeel]

This group of England players became known as the Golden Generation. But all that glitters, etc, etc. I think there is a certain kind of superficiality to the whole golden generation because Beckham's era in England is one of enormous disappointment. The Premier League has now become, certainly by the early 2000s, the leading league in the world. And that team was very poor. I hated watching them, they never gelled as a team. And I felt there was a kind of hollowness and I suppose maybe I'm in danger of extending the analogy too far, but I felt that there was a real hollowness about New Labour's conception of Britain and Englishness. It's this perception that the purpose of the Premiership was to develop a generation of England players who would be world beating and therefore would win the World cup. That actually by drawing in the world's best talent to a league based in England, that it would develop England players because they were playing week in, week out against the very best. There was a flaw in this thinking, kind of an obvious one, which is that English players will now be playing against the global very best. Yes. But in so doing, as rampant capitalism pushes English clubs to buy more and more of the global very best, the amount of English players playing in the English Premier League dwindles, making the national team have a smaller and smaller pool to choose from. David Beckham has resigned as England captain after his team's exit from the World Cup. He said he'd been honoured to lead his country, but with a new coach taking over, it was time for a new captain. Earlier, Sven Jorg Eriksen described Wayne Rooney as the golden boy of English football and urged supporters not to be too critical of his mistakes. Beckham leaves the country to promote his brand of Englishness to the world. From once embodying modern Englishness to Sir David Beckham has ended up aping with his farm and his flat cap and his knighthood. An aristocratic myth of England in that global theatre of the super rich, which has no nationality except for wealth. The new golden boy feels like a return to an older type of Englishness. A great player, but one who looks like he could have played and lived in 1934. Aesthetically, you know, he's characterised as Shrek. Okay, so we've spoken before about the kind of banter, the humor of, you know, calling somebody a turnip. That's kind of almost quite endearing. But to depict Wayne Rooney as Shrek, I would argue is kind of othering him. Players from this era, their international stats are very, very good. Michael Owen got 89 caps and scored 40 goals. Rooney is England's most capped outfield player with 120 and the second best goal scorer ever with 58. But when very Young. So much hope went into these players, but he finds on, on with the pace. Coming forward again. Owen still going on into the penalty area. Owen scores. It's an absolutely fantastic goal by Michael Owen. And then as their careers continue, because they aren't part of England teams that win anything, there is a sense of unfulfillment.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

Michael Ohne is perhaps the most interesting member of that golden generation because he totally sums it up. We all remember his goal in 1998 in France against Argentina. I think it's one of the purest England football moments I've ever seen of just elite youthful talent. Speed, grace, everything. And he's been mocked since for saying that at that age he was the best player of his age in the world. And he just knew it at the time. But I think he was, I think he's right. But he, he was just destroyed by the game after that. He played so many games, he had so many injuries, there was no management of what do we do with this talent? There was no thought of resting. He was just too bright for this world.

[David Bedeel]

Meanwhile, as the century got going, the country, perhaps having had enough of football, looked elsewhere for something to provide its sporting expression of Englishness. An enormous welcome to the Olympic Stadium

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

for the Olympic Games of 2012.

[David Bedeel]

Let the games begin.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

Here are the Spice Girls on top of the cheddar cheese, singing the Lambeth Walk. James Bond inside a car made of

[David Bedeel]

pork pie, meat and football at that time. Well, I struggle to remember the games and I remember England games normally. I mean basically we're going out of tournaments in 2012, 2014 and 2016 at early stages in a team that includes no disrespect, alright, some disrespect. Andy Carroll and Scott Parker and James Milner and hey, of course Jordan Henderson. This team was very much not about uniting the country. But then again, England at the time was not a united Kingdom. England Trail Iceland 2:1.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

That's it.

[David Bedeel]

And this will go down as the worst result in the history of English international.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

It was almost like step for step with what was happening in our politics, what was happening with the England team.

[David Bedeel]

Go through that a bit.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

2016, the Euros. I was at that tournament following Roy Hodgson's England who really struggled, who really felt like some expression of confused and leaden footed Englishness. The defeat in Nice to Iceland happened well just a few days after the Brexit vote. The image of it is a slightly ailing overweight Wayne Rooney in decline. Wayne Rooney as England as this kind of beautifully gifted thing that's that's lost it. Yeah. Decaying cobweb and. And people shouting and screaming at it

[David Bedeel]

from the sideline with someone and him shouting back. Rooney looks exhausting. He looks out in his feet, really. England players should be ashamed of themselves.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

There was so much anger in that game, so much expression of just unhappiness.

[David Bedeel]

The golden generation really does include some of England's most brilliant players. Scholes, Lampard, Terry Beckham, Gerrard, Rooney, Michael Owen, Ashley Cole. And the fact that they never quite gel may again be to do with Englishness and expectation.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

It's interesting to think about what gold is. Gold is something you find in the ground. It's a raw element. It has no human control. You just dig it up and it's either there or it's not. And that goes back to how English football traditionally has seen how to win. The kind of moral right to win and the lack of basic work that goes in trying to find it. So in other countries, the way you get a golden generation is you work hard at creating a system with tactics, coaching, nutrition, everything, as they have in Germany with their academy system that won the World cup in 2014. They have a system of playing and it's intellectualized in a way English football never has been. They're not walking around talking about digging players out of the ground and we must win because we found gold in the ground.

[David Bedeel]

The 90s and noughties were indeed a shiny time for England. English football glints on magazine covers, boot deals, haircuts, Nike campaigns, wags in Baden Baden and the blinding new wealth of the Premier League. Golden balls. The golden boy, the golden generation. It all implies that what this country is searching for isn't really a team so much as a Holy Grail. A shining gold cup that overfloweth with Englishness. A mirage that hovers over football just out of reach, never turning into an actual bloody trophy. Next time, we'll look at all the moments when that grail has seemed so close to our collective outstretched grasp. When the stone that the sword has to be pulled from becomes a penalty

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

spot, England has ballooned it over the bar.

[David Bedeel]

You can listen to all episodes of 60 Years of Hurt first on BBC Sounds if you want to be notified as soon as a new episode drops. Make sure you're subscribed to the history podcast on BBC Sounds and have push notifications turned on.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

Hello, I'm Tyler West.

[David Bedeel]

And I'm Alfie Watts. And this is is the Detour, the

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

official companion podcast to Race across the World. This is the post episode Checkpoint, where You'll hear the latest chat around each episode from us and our Race Superfan special guests. Plus, I'll be joined each week by our resident travel expert, Alfie. That's you, man.

[David Bedeel]

I'll be revealing my optimal way to travel through each leg, including visits to all of those unmissable detours along the way.

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

And we'll also have some not seen anywhere else Exclusive content about end of every episode cannot wait. The detour will land straight after each episode of Race across the World. You can watch on iplayer or listen on Sounds, where you'll also find extra bonus content.

[David Bedeel]

We'll see you then.

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[David Bedeel]

Grainger knows when you're a procurement manager for an office park, you're not managing

[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

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[David Bedeel]

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[Podcast Co-host or Guest (possibly Tyler West or Alfie Watts)]

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[David Bedeel]

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