Two Nottingham Lads: 4. Last Days in the Donbas

Summary

Podcast Summary: The History Podcast – Two Nottingham Lads: 4. Last Days in the Donbas

Host: Paul Kenyon (BBC Radio 4)
Air Date: January 14, 2026

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Episode Overview

This gripping episode concludes the "Two Nottingham Lads" series, tracing the fates of Aiden Aslan and Graham Phillips—two British men from Nottingham who found themselves on opposite sides of the war in Ukraine. The focus is on Aiden Aslan's harrowing final months as a POW on death row in the Donbas, the personal and political machinations that secured his release, and a reckoning with life after captivity. It also charts the divergent post-war trajectories of both Aiden and Graham, offering raw insights into trauma, moral choices, and the blurred lines of conflict journalism.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Aiden Aslan’s Life on Death Row

• Mental Health Struggles:

  • Aiden recounts the unbearable psychological strain:

    "By this point my mental health is the worst it's been at since being in captivity. I'd managed to find a razor blade... and I remember I used to lay down on my bed at nighttime just thinking of just..."
    — Aiden Aslan, 02:13

• Daily Brutality and Dehumanization:

  • Forced propaganda videos, frequent beatings, and watching a fellow Ukrainian POW be beaten to death.

    "I witnessed them beat a Ukrainian POW to death in the neighboring cell next to me."
    — Aiden Aslan, 05:28

• Small Mercies:

  • Reuniting with Prebeg, another former comrade, offered a rare moment of mental relief amid torment:

    "I would say it definitely helped me a lot mentally because I was able to speak English again. We were using our dark humor to try and just pass the time."
    — Aiden Aslan, 07:07

• Prisoner Routine & Surreal Degradation:

  • Captives forced to mimic train noises as a humiliating ritual:

    "They had to make this sound. Chu, chu, chu, chu, chu. And they would go, come on, let us hear the whistle..."
    — Paul Kenyon (narrating Aiden’s experience), 07:26

2. The Political Weaponization of Prisoners

• Pressure on Families:

  • Aiden’s captors forced him to call his family, pressuring his mother to lobby officials:

    "He would be screaming at me down the phone that I needed to speak to Boris Johnson to get the DPR noticed."
    — Angela Aslan, summarized by Paul Kenyon, 08:25

• International Advocacy:

  • MP Robert Jenrick raises Aiden’s case in UK Parliament, spurring debate over Geneva Convention breaches and increasing international pressure for his release.

    "This is a flagrant breach of the Geneva Convention. And that the interviewer, Graham Phillips, is in danger of prosecution for war crimes."
    — Robert Jenrick, 09:14

• Propaganda and Fallout:

  • After Aiden’s family protests, Graham Phillips has his YouTube account terminated for spreading Russian propaganda, losing his audience and income.

3. The Unexpected Release: Prisoner Exchange

• Sudden Change in Routine:

  • In September 2022, Aiden is unexpectedly moved and loaded into a truck, unsure whether this meant torture, transfer, or execution.

    "There was a lot of stuff that was going on that was out of, like, a normal routine... I really, honestly was like, in complete dread of, like, fear."
    — Aiden Aslan, 02:45

• Flight to Freedom:

  • Disoriented, the prisoners realize they're at an airport and, with the appearance of Saudi officials, are part of a major prisoner swap.

    "I immediately knew it was either going to be Qatari or Saudis, but I just wasn't sure what their role was and why they were here."
    — Aiden Aslan, 13:53

• Unexpected Broker:

  • On the plane, Aiden discovers Roman Abramovich helped broker the deal:

    "You don't half look like Roman Abramovich. And he said, I am Roman Abramovich."
    — Aiden Aslan, 16:43

• The Deal:

  • Over 200 Ukrainians were traded for 55 Russians, including high-profile oligarch Viktor Medvedchuk.

• Bittersweet Homecoming:

  • Aiden’s emotional reunion with family at Heathrow:

    "I actually did think at one point, the next time I see Aiden, he's going to be in a coffin."
    — Angela Aslan, 18:39

  • Aiden’s first words to his mother:

    "Those bastards, they beat me and made me do all that bullshit."
    — Aiden Aslan, 18:49

4. Life After Captivity: Parallel Destinies

Aiden Aslan:

• Return to Ukraine:

  • Despite trauma, Aiden returns to Kyiv, moves on from his fiancée, and reconnects with the military—this time in fundraising and advocacy roles, not combat:

    "I initially tried to fly back to Ukraine, like literally less than three weeks after I was in Britain."
    — Aiden Aslan, 26:18

• New Mission: Documentation and POW Advocacy:

  • Aiden pivots to documentary work, focusing on the treatment of Russian POWs in Ukraine, aiming to set the record straight:

    "I then set up out to go to the prisoner war camp in Western Ukraine to go visit Russian POWs..."
    — Aiden Aslan, 27:17

  • He expresses empathy for POWs rooted in his own experience:

    "I know exactly how you're feeling right now. This is exceptionally mentally draining for you. But, like, just try to keep positive because you will go home eventually."
    — Aiden Aslan, 29:08

Graham Phillips:

• Persona Non Grata:

  • Sanctioned by the UK government as a “Russian asset”, assets frozen, and banned from travel:

    "He's thought to be the first ever sole British citizen to be sanctioned in such a way."
    — Paul Kenyon, 25:16

• Defiance and Isolation:

  • Continues pro-Russian journalism in Donbas, living in squalor and reliant on the Russian state for protection.
    • Notable quote:

      "If you enter a war zone as a mercenary... what on earth have you got to moan about? Where did he think he was going? Centre Parks."
      — Graham Phillips’s statement, 24:35

• Bleak Condition:

  • Les Scott, Graham's old friend, reflects on Graham’s destitution:

    "I mean, the guy is living in a bombed out apartment in Mariupol with no water. He has to collect water every day."
    — Paul Kenyon (quoting Les Scott), 25:28

5. Reflections on War, Trauma, and Meaning

• Survivor’s Guilt and Changed Perspectives:

  • Journalist Nick Sturdy reflects on his own injury and changed outlook:

    "It's meant that I haven't been able to go to Ukraine and follow what I think is important... changed my understanding of life... I think a lot more these days about the temporary nature of life and our mortality."
    — Nick Sturdy, 19:46

• Full Circle:

  • Aiden and Shaun now document POW conditions, echoing the very propaganda and abuse they suffered—serving a new, more transparent moral mission.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | |-----------|-------|---------| | 02:13 | "By this point my mental health is the worst it's been at since being in captivity." | Aiden Aslan | | 05:28 | "I witnessed them beat a Ukrainian POW to death in the neighboring cell next to me." | Aiden Aslan | | 07:07 | "We were using our dark humor to try and just pass the time." | Aiden Aslan | | 09:14 | "This is a flagrant breach of the Geneva Convention. And that the interviewer, Graham Phillips, is in danger of prosecution for war crimes." | Robert Jenrick (in Parliament) | | 13:53 | "I immediately knew it was either going to be Qatari or Saudis, but I just wasn't sure what their role was and why they were here." | Aiden Aslan | | 16:43 | "You don't half look like Roman Abramovich. And he said, I am Roman Abramovich." | Aiden Aslan | | 18:49 | "Those bastards, they beat me and made me do all that bullshit." | Aiden Aslan | | 24:35 | "If you enter a war zone as a mercenary... what on earth have you got to moan about? Where did he think he was going? Centre Parks." | Graham Phillips | | 25:28 | "I mean, the guy is living in a bombed out apartment in Mariupol with no water. He has to collect water every day." | Paul Kenyon (quoting Les Scott) | | 29:08 | "I know exactly how you're feeling right now. This is exceptionally mentally draining for you. But, like, just try to keep positive because you will go home eventually." | Aiden Aslan |

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00-02:13 — Aiden's dire mental state and death row routine
• 05:28 — Witnessing POW murder in captivity
• 07:07 — Reunion with Prebeg and coping through humor
• 08:25-09:14 — Family pressure, parliamentary intervention
• 10:22-11:54 — Graham Phillips’s propaganda work, subsequent deplatforming
• 13:09-14:02 — Mysterious transfer to Russian airport, appearance of Saudi go-betweens
• 16:43 — Encounter with Roman Abramovich on prisoner swap plane
• 18:39-18:57 — Emotional family reunion at Heathrow
• 19:46 — Nick Sturdy's reflection on trauma and meaning
• 25:16-25:47 — Graham Phillips’s sanctioning, life in Donbas
• 26:18-27:17 — Aiden's return to Ukraine, new mission
• 27:58-29:08 — Empathy for POWs, shift to documenting war ethics

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Tone and Language

The episode is haunting yet unsensational, with first-person accounts balancing brutality and black humor. Paul Kenyon and Aiden Aslan’s voices alternate between heavy emotional candor and measured, journalistic clarity. The show retains the dignity of survivors while not shying away from the moral ambiguities and lifelong wounds left by war.

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Conclusion

"Last Days in the Donbas" vividly closes the "Two Nottingham Lads" narrative. Through unflinching testimony and intimate journalistic investigation, it confronts the listener with the human cost of conflict, the shifting lines of loyalty and ideology, and the ongoing search for justice and truth in war’s aftermath. Aiden and Graham remain emblematic of divergent but equally complicated fates—haunted by what they’ve seen, each seeking meaning on his own, uncertain path.

Transcript

[Paul Kenyon]

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[Aiden Aslan]

By this point my mental health is the worst it's been at since being in captivity. I'd managed to find a razor blade that was like hidden in the window of our prison cell and I remember I used to lay down on my bed at nighttime just thinking of just.

[Paul Kenyon]

Ending my his days were a grim round of propaganda videos made under duress as well as beatings and endless waiting. Until one morning in September, something changed.

[Aiden Aslan]

This day in particular. There was a lot of stuff that was going on that was out of, like, a normal routine. I remember hearing them take one of the Ukrainians in our cell block out. He said, we're taking you to be shop now. And eventually the door opened and they called my. I thought I was being taken to do propaganda, as that was the same routine. So I knew the exact route we're going to is going towards the propaganda room and then we get to a gatehouse. But instead, this time we continue going forward. And it was at that moment that I really, honestly was like, in complete dread of, like, fear, because now I'm going somewhere I've never been to before. And we would always hear people screaming that were being tortured.

[Paul Kenyon]

Aiden's life in captivity had been one indignity after another, but at least it had been a routine, even the smallest of changes. Any deviation from his daily drill carried chilling potential.

[Aiden Aslan]

Eventually we went down some steps into, like, another basement and we got put into a cell. The attitude with the guards had completely diminished. Like, it was really off putting. He put me to the side and got his camera out and just told me to say that we've been fed, we've not been tortured. Another guard came in, he opened the Sl. The door that was next to us. And I remember listening. He said, like, you guys, you're not going to pick up a weapon again. And as soon as I heard that, I was like, why would he say that? Why would he say that? And then I'm having all these, like, thoughts, like, run through my mind about what? What could this possibly mean?

[Paul Kenyon]

What did all this mean? The guards change in attitude, asking him strange questions. Were these his last thoughts? Being filmed on death row? Aiden couldn't know how or. But his life in captivity was about to take another unexpected turn. I'm Paul Kenyon and for BBC Radio 4 and the History Podcast, this is Two Nottingham Lads, a story about how two men from the same British city end up on opposite sides in the war in Ukraine. Episode 4 Last Days in the Donbass. In the months around the show trial that condemned Aidan to death in June 2022, his days were routinely bleak. He did have some sort of value to his captors, though. After all, a foreign national is a useful bargaining chip for the Kremlin. Some of his comrades in captivity were less fortunate.

[Aiden Aslan]

Just a few days before the court, I was in one of the neighboring cells at the time, and there was a New arrival of Ukrainian prisoners who arrived. I witnessed them beat a Ukrainian POW to death in the neighboring cell next to me. So not only had I had to deal with the whole, like, emotion and mental trauma of, like, being sentenced to death in, like, a fake kangaroo court, I also had the trauma of, like, witnessing someone being murdered.

[Paul Kenyon]

Aiden was shifted from cell to cell, wrestling with the unknown, until one day, a new arrival.

[Aiden Aslan]

And I got put into an empty prison cell. And then the door opened, and I just saw this, like, guy with, like, long hair, like, this big beard. I didn't recognize him at first. I looked again. I realized it was Prebek.

[Paul Kenyon]

The Ekoslav Prebek, Aidan's former comrade, the one who'd made a break for it on foot from Mariupol, was staring down at him. When I got in, I saw Aidan. It's such a mixture of feelings. Sadness, because I know all the anguish.

[Aiden Aslan]

That I've been through. He's been either through same or worse.

[Paul Kenyon]

But still happiness, because I see him now next to me, and he's alive.

[Aiden Aslan]

And he's a familiar face.

[Paul Kenyon]

Out in the field, the remaining Mariupol escapees were being tracked down and captured. Prebeg was among them, just 10 agonizing kilometers from safety when he ran into a Russian position leading to his reunion with Aiden.

[Aiden Aslan]

I would say it definitely helped me a lot mentally because I was able to speak English again. We were using our dark humor to try and just pass the time. There was a certain group of Ukrainians in our prison, and every time they took them out, they made them make the train noises. You had to head your hands behind.

[Paul Kenyon]

Your back, your head down, and the next person would take one hand and grab you. They had to make this sound. Chu, chu, chu, chu, chu. And they would go, come on, let us hear the whistle. And then the first guy, because he was the engine, had to go. It's one of the more surreal moments in Aiden's captivity, but it's also dehumanising and intended to be. Treating prisoners like playthings. Sitting beside Prebeg made life more manageable, but there were other burdens he'd need to shoulder alone, like the fact his family were being used as geopolitical pawns.

[Aiden Aslan]

They wanted me to make contact with my family. I remember we managed to get them on Facebook. I'd always, like, tell them, I'm fine, everything's okay. I mean, everything wasn't okay. Like, I was, like, in a very bad situation.

[Paul Kenyon]

Angela, Aiden's mom, remembers these calls well. The overall phone calls were quite horrific. He would be screaming at me down the phone that I needed to speak to Boris Johnson to get the DPR noticed. You know, I made a joke of it and I said, tell the Russians, do I have Boris Johnson on speed dial? The Donetsk People's Republic was unrecognized internationally, but a call with Boris Johnson would give it some credibility. And so it was that Aiden was forced to make videos directly addressing the UK's then Prime Minister.

[Aiden Aslan]

If Boris Johnson really does care like he says he does about British citizens, and he would help pressure Zelensky to do the right thing.

[Paul Kenyon]

And while these videos didn't succeed in getting Boris Johnson on the phone, the chilling interview that Graham Phillips had posted online meant Aidan's story was picked up in the uk. His MP in Newark, Robert Jenrick, took Aidan's case to Parliament. Robert Jenrick, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday a video emerged of my constituent handcuffed, physically injured and being interviewed under duress for propaganda purposes. This is a flagrant breach of the Geneva Convention. And that the interviewer, Graham Phillips, is in danger of prosecution for war crimes. I thank my Right Honourable friend very much and I think everybody will urge the Russian state to treat his constituent humanely and compassionately. Aiden's future might have appeared grim, but things weren't looking too rosy for Graham Phillips either. Accused in Parliament of potential war crimes. Since his now infamous interview back in April, Graham had returned to the Donbas to continue his pro Russian reportage.

[Aiden Aslan]

So we are coming now into liberated Mariupol after the final surrender.

[Paul Kenyon]

Around two and a half thousand as of Nazis. This clip is from May 2022 from a video titled Arriving in Liberated Mariupol, taken five and a half weeks after Aiden's surrender, Graham couldn't resist celebrating with a bottle of champagne. Where are you, Paul? But now these videos weren't reaching the same kind of audience. After Robert Jenrick's intervention and protests from aidan's family, Graham's YouTube profile was deactivated. His archive of thousands of videos and his 330,000 subscribers were gone, along with his main source of income. Here he is talking about it in a video on another platform, Rumble, titled Life After YouTube. Hello, friends.

[Aiden Aslan]

Well, here we are on Rumble because.

[Paul Kenyon]

Just the other day, thousands of videos, reportage and films. YouTube terminated my account and deleted all of those videos. I put my heart and soul. It's every one of those videos and.

[Aiden Aslan]

They were all designed to get the.

[Paul Kenyon]

Truth out into the world.

[Aiden Aslan]

But of course, that is a truth that YouTube doesn't want you to see.

[Paul Kenyon]

As it turned out. Graham's video with Aidan was a sliding doors moment for both of them. Not that Aidan, sitting in his cell in Donetsk, had any idea what was about to occur. Earlier on, we left Aiden grappling with an unsettling change in his prison routine. In September 2022, hooded and handcuffed, he was led out of the cell where he'd been forced to make videos and on to a waiting truck.

[Aiden Aslan]

When we get loaded onto the truck, we've got like 30, like other Ukrainians, 10 foreigners. One of the guys, someone was like, crushing his ankle or something. So obviously he was shouting in pain. And all you hear is the taser. And then as soon as you hear the taser, everyone just goes quiet.

[Paul Kenyon]

Prebeg was there too. We drove for, I'm going to say, three hours. We came to a halt. I heard a jet turbine, and by doing calculation, I knew that Rostov Airport is close by. That was the only possible explanation. When I said, like, guys, we are.

[Aiden Aslan]

In Russia in Rostov.

[Paul Kenyon]

We are on the airport and I don't know when we're going. It was just silent. You could drop a pin and hear it.

[Aiden Aslan]

This curious, I presume, like Russian FSB or police guy, he came over to the back of the truck. He said to us, well, I think you will like Russian surprise that's coming for you.

[Paul Kenyon]

A Russian surprise for a Ukrainian captive is rarely a good thing. The POWs were then taken into the airport itself. We were waiting here for a couple of hours. At one point, there was guys in classic Arab outfits in their, like, long white tunics. My thought was, oh, my God, they're gonna sell us to isis.

[Aiden Aslan]

I immediately knew it was either going to be Qatari or Saudis, but I just wasn't sure what their role was and why they were here.

[Paul Kenyon]

Ayden was right. These were the Saudis, and they weren't there to sell the prisoners to anyone. They were intermediaries in a prisoner swap negotiated between Ukraine and Russia, something the prisoners had dreamed about in captivity. Aydin and his comrades couldn't fully comprehend it yet, but salvation was just a plane ride away.

[Aiden Aslan]

When we were on the plane and we took off, I remember going to the toilet just to, like, throw water on my face. And I remember just staring at myself in the mirror. I remember just staring at nothing, like, other than myself and just seeing nothing. At that moment, I was in shock just because it was actually happening. But it hadn't computed yet in my brain that we're going home.

[Paul Kenyon]

Nearly home. Isn't home where we all want to be reba here for realtor.com the Pro's number one most trusted app. Finding a home is like dating. You're not just looking for a place to live. You're searching for the one. That's where realtor.com comes in. Like any good matchmaker, they know exactly where to look. With over 500,000 new real listings straight from the pros every month, you could find your perfect match today. Ranch style with a pool. Barndominium with an in Law Suite. Realtor.com's got em modern craftsman with a big yard and a treehouse out back. Realtor.com will have you saying, yep, that's the one. No more swapping. It's time to start finding. Download the realtor.com app today because you're nearly home. Make it real with realtor.com pro's number one most trusted app based on August 2025 proprietary survey. Over 500,000 new listings every month based on average new for sale and rental listings. July 2024 to June 2025. Aydin and his comrades had boarded a flight in Russia and were now safely on their way to the Saudi capital, Riyadh. Staring down from 36,000ft, it seems surreal that he'd suddenly been plucked from death row and onto a private jet. He was alongside Sean Pinner again, too, roaming the plane and swapping stories. Shawn had a strange encounter, which helped explain how this had all come about. I remember walking along the plane in.

[Aiden Aslan]

A carpet and then I walked around the corner. There's Aiden in like Saudi Air Force.

[Paul Kenyon]

One and a la Z boy, just playing around going, this isn't too bad. And that's when really the bizarre sort of happened.

[Aiden Aslan]

As I come out of having a wash and put some new clothes, an old guy said to me, where you from?

[Paul Kenyon]

And I said, london.

[Aiden Aslan]

And I said, where are you from? He said, london.

[Paul Kenyon]

And I said, you don't half look like Roman Abramovich. And he said, I am Roman Abramovich. And I was like, what are you doing here? And that's when all the crazy started. Behind the scenes, a deal had been brewing. Roman Abramovich, the former owner of Chelsea Football Club until his links to Russia forced him to sell, had helped broker the deal along with the Saudis. Aden, Shaun and Prebeg were part of the biggest exchange since the war began.

[Aiden Aslan]

More than 200 Ukrainian captives have been.

[Paul Kenyon]

Released in exchange for 55 Russians and notably a prominent pro Russian, Ukrainian politician and oligarch Viktor Medvedchuk, who's a close ally of President Putin and was facing charges of treason. Viktor Medvedchuk was a high value prisoner who'd once been touted as Moscow's puppet leader in Kyiv. His if the invasion had been successful, the POWs had heard rumours of such a deal. They'd even been made to appeal to the Ukrainian and UK governments themselves to organise an exchange for the oligarch. But it was only when they were safely on board the plane that they knew for sure it was a reality. The former POWs soon landed in Riyadh, but they didn't stick around.

[Aiden Aslan]

So we ended up immediately getting a ticket on behalf of the British government back to London Heathrow. After a short while, the Foreign Office representatives, they said that we can go to this room and we can see our family who are waiting for us.

[Paul Kenyon]

Aiden's brother and his dad were both waiting. But where was his mum, Angela? Well, in typical Heathrow fashion, she was a touch late. She couldn't find a parking space. I opened the door and he was just stood there and he just turned around and he just. We just hugged. I cried and I hugged and cried and hugged. It was a really emotional meeting again, because I actually did think at one point, the next time I see Aiden, he's going to be in a coffin.

[Aiden Aslan]

I remember saying to my mum, I said, the first thing I said to her is like, those bastards, they beat me and made me do all that bullshit.

[Paul Kenyon]

Aidan was finally letting it all out. A boy back with his mum. After a Foreign Office debrief, the family drove back up to the East Midlands, to Newark and home.

[Aiden Aslan]

When we were driving to Newark from London, I think one of the most striking things that caught my eye was just the amount of Ukrainian flags. And I remember, like, not crying, but I remember, like, like feeling like, pretty emotional, like seeing how much support there was for Ukraine.

[Paul Kenyon]

Aiden's ordeal in captivity was finally over. Since late 2022, the front lines in Ukraine have shifted glacially back and forth. I was last there in 2024, making a documentary about the kidnap of Ukrainian children by Russian forces. Nick Sturdy, my colleague, has been back there too, but he, like Aidan and like Graham, in his own way, still holds a real passion for the country. But reporting on wars, just like fighting in them, has a price. The last time I was there was actually in June 2022. I was shooting actually the fourth film that I'd shot since the Full Scale Invasion, and I had a very bad accident. Our car spun off the road, flipped four times and whacked against a tree and I was in A coma for three weeks and hadn't been able back since. And how has that affected you, Nick? It's affected me in lots of ways. I've got a serious brain injury. I was very lucky that I didn't die there and then and that my recovery has been almost total. I can walk and talk. It's meant that I haven't been able to go to Ukraine and follow what I think is important and what I feel invested in and what I care about. But it's also changed my understanding of life, really, to put it bluntly, or to put it simply, I think a lot more these days about the temporary nature of life and our mortality. I think about that a lot, in fact, every day. That's the context in which I see and think about almost everything. I thought you were going to die. My wife thought so as well, and so did my kids. So all those things that are part of youth and the excitement of the fresh, the new, the dangerous, begin to fade when the reality bites. And the reality is that all the people who've taken part in this story, they're all suffering now in their different ways. For you, you know, it's something that will never leave you for the rest of your life. It's true. And both Aidan Aslan and Graham Phillips are potentially in danger as way. And we don't know, sadly, whether either of them will survive the end of the war. And obviously they're not alone. So what of our protagonists now? Where is Graham Phillips without his YouTube and his main source of income? Well, since the video with Aidan, he's continued making his reportage, mainly interviewing locals in the Donbass about the war and visiting sites of destruction. In the one you can hear right now entitled Donbass Victory Day Luhansk Motor Parade, Graham is cheering energetically during some sort of military parade in May 2025. But perhaps the most important update for Graham is that in 2022, he was sanctioned by the UK government. It concluded that Graham's work is propaganda which undermines or threatens the territorial integrity, sovereignty or independence of Ukraine. He's banned from traveling, his assets have been frozen and it's now a criminal offence to provide him with financial assistance. He's thought to be the first ever sole British citizen to be sanctioned in such a way. It's a controversial move, viewed by some as seriously undermining the right to free speech. Graham's lawyer, Iovanka Savic, fiercely disputes he has any connection to Moscow and says his treatment should send a chilling message to any and every independent journalist. Whatever the context, Graham himself remains defiant and had this to say about it in a video entitled From Celadar to sanctioned by the UK government. And remember, those doing this, the UK government are the ones telling you and telling the world that they are the good guys fighting the virtuous cause for Ukraine and I'm the bad guy, the terrible Kremlin propagandist, when all I'm doing.

[Aiden Aslan]

Is showing you what's going on in Donbass since 2014.

[Paul Kenyon]

And they're the ones, good guys and bad guys. There's that Mitchell and Webb sketch that Graham talks about in the interview with aidan again. In January 2024, Graham was unsuccessful in his appeal against the sanctions, with the High Court judge concluding he was for all practical purposes a Russian asset who has signed up to that propaganda war. In October the same year, Phillips was granted temporary asylum by Russia. At the time, he thanked Vladimir Putin and has since vowed to continue his work telling the truth, as he says from the Donbass. Responding to claims made in this documentary, Graham maintains that the interview with Adin was freely given and professionally done and conformed with international law. Regarding Aydan's story, he went on to add, I myself have been wounded by shrapnel here and taken into captivity twice by Ukrainian forces. Perhaps I'm of a different generation to Aidan, but in my day we use the term man up, and indeed I still use that. If you enter a war zone as a mercenary, which Aidan did, and come out of it with a full set of limbs, and then what on earth have you got to moan about? Where did he think he was going? Centre Parks. Defiant he may be, but according to his old friend Les Scott, Graham's situation in the Donbas is pretty bleak. His main priority is to have his sanctions lifted so that he can get his life back. I do feel they're unfair. There's worse individuals walking the streets earning.

[Aiden Aslan]

Money than Graham Phillips.

[Paul Kenyon]

I mean, the guy is living in a bombed out apartment in Mariupol with no water. He has to collect water every day.

[Aiden Aslan]

He has to fill a bathtub in.

[Paul Kenyon]

The garden, he has to light a fire under that bath. I mean, it's unbelievable.

[Aiden Aslan]

This is a guy who has an apartment in London he can't visit, he can't get to.

[Paul Kenyon]

That's nearly three years now. He's been living as effectively a homeless person with a laptop and electricity. Who can say what the future holds for Graham, but a happy homecoming to the UK feels unlikely. And what of Aiden? You might think he'd be Back home in Nottinghamshire, recovering, gardening, listening to the birds. But the pull of Ukraine was just too much.

[Aiden Aslan]

So I'd always planned to go back. I initially tried to fly back to Ukraine, like literally less than three weeks after I was in Britain.

[Paul Kenyon]

Aidan was returned to Ukraine in late 2022, the place he now calls home. He eventually broke up with his fiance and got his own apartment in Kyiv. He's now got a new Ukrainian girlfriend, but it's early days. He's back working for the Ukrainian military too. No longer fighting on the front line though, instead raising funds for weapons and supplies. But he's also now committed to, to one thing in particular.

[Aiden Aslan]

It was probably sometime in mid 2023 when I started focusing on trying to get back into my like journalism side of stuff.

[Paul Kenyon]

Ayden now documents parts of the conflict other journalists can't reach. In particular the fate of Russian prisoners of war held in Ukraine.

[Aiden Aslan]

I then set up out to go to the prisoner war camp in Western Ukraine to go visit Russian POWs, to go see the prison for myself so I can have a look to see how the Russians are being kept there.

[Paul Kenyon]

These are prisoners who Graham Phillips, in his interview with Aiden, claims are being tortured, mutilated and slaughtered by the Ukrainian military, repeating claims the Russian government has made throughout the conflict. Aiden set out to find the truth. On a later visit, Sean came too. The pair filmed a documentary about what they found.

[Aiden Aslan]

Try, try not to look behind because we don't want the details of your face being seen only for you. Yeah, it's only, it's more for like your personal safety and security when you do get exchanged for. The main reason why we're wanting to speak to you guys specifically is because we want to try and promote the idea of both sides, like agreeing to do a large like foreigner for foreigner exchange because there's a lot. It's really important to get that message out to people that, you know, Ukraine is abiding by the Geneva Conventions.

[Paul Kenyon]

It's not perfect. Every war crime should be punished. But what's different here is it's not systemic. There is no prison like the prison.

[Aiden Aslan]

I went to in Russia.

[Paul Kenyon]

There's an intriguing circularity here, isn't there? Sean and Aidan making a film about POWs capturing their testimonies on video. There are echoes of what happened to them back in that prison in Donetsk. So how does Aiden justify it?

[Aiden Aslan]

I remember my time in captivity. I didn't want to go into it and just become like one of those self proclaimed journalists that go and just film prisoners. I felt a lot more of a connection to them. It was like a weird emotional connection. And I remember at one point when we were finishing one of the, the videos with them, I remember like telling him and says, like, I know exactly how you're feeling right now. This is exceptionally mentally draining for you. But, like, just try to keep positive because you will go home eventually. Like, try, trust me, this is all politics. Like, you will go home. Today.

[Paul Kenyon]

Russia holds around 8,000 Ukrainian POWs, some captured at the same time as Aden, Shorn and Prebeg during the siege of Mariupol. A figure for Russian POWs held by Ukraine is harder to find. But on both sides, most prisoners don't have public profiles, political value or Western diplomats pushing for their release. Aidan and Shaun aren't seeking revenge. They're looking for justice for themselves and their Russian counterparts. Perhaps this, then, in the end, is why Aydin found himself in Ukraine in the first place, pursuing his own personal moral crusade. We've gone full circle then back to the video of Graham's interview with Aiden that started this series, which in the end changed the lives of everyone involved in some very unforeseeable ways. Two Nottingham Lads is a message heard production for BBC Radio 4. It was presented by me, Paul Kenyon, and produced by Harry Stott. McAllister Bexen is the executive producer, Kirsty McLean is the production manager and Kieran Wilson is the series researcher. Sound design and engineering is by Alan Learned, with thanks to Nick Sturdy and to BBC Panorama for their archival footage for the BBC. The commissioners are Tracey Williams and Dan Clark. Listen to the whole series right now, first on BBC Sounds. We hope you enjoyed this series from the History podcast. If you haven't already, why not listen to a previous series from this podcast? Like the Fort for the first time, commanders, soldiers and pilots who served in Afghanistan tell their story of the gruelling assault on Joggroom Fort, an astonishing rescue mission. If you want to be notified as soon as a new series drops, make sure you're subscribed to the History podcast on BBC Sounds. If you're an H Vac technician and a call comes in, Grainger knows that you need a partner that helps you.

[Aiden Aslan]

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[Paul Kenyon]

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