← The Home Service Expert Podcast
The Home Service Expert Podcast
Dave Yoho 97 Year Old Business Expert Shares 60+ Years Of Business Secrets
01:07:21
In this conversation, Tommy Mello interviews Dave Yoho, a pioneer in the home improvement industry, discussing the keys to sales success, the importance of understanding human behavior, and effective communication techniques. They explore how to build...
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- [00:00]
A
We have clients who sell 20, 30 million dollars a year and they'll have one salesman that does three and a half four million. Now what makes them different? Different kind of behavior. That's the key.
- [00:14]
B
Welcome to the Home Service Expert where each week Tommy chats with world class entrepreneurs and experts in various fields like marketing, sales, hiring and leadership to find out what's really behind their success in business. Now your host, the Home Service Millionaire. To before we get started, I wanted to share two important things with you. First, I want you to implement what you learned today. To do that, you'll have to take a lot of notes. But I also want you to fully concentrate on the interview. So I asked the team to take notes for you. Just text notes N O t e s to 888-526-1299 that's 888-526-1299 and you'll receive a link to download the notes from today's episode. Also, if you haven't got your copy of my newest book, Elevate, please go check it out. I'll share with you how I attracted and developed a winning team that helped me build a $200 million company in 22 states. Just go to elevateandwin.com podcast to get your copy. Now let's go back into the interview. Welcome back to the Home Service Expert. Today I got an awesome guest and I've been dying to get this guy on the podcast. As you guys know, I've done thousands of podcasts. I got Dave Yoho here. He's an expert in sales and business. He's just getting started in his career. He just turned 30. He's based out of Fairfax, Virginia. He's the president, CEO and founder of Dave Yoho Associates and he's done that for about 64 years. He's a pioneer in the home improvement industry. He founded his own business at the age of 28 and grew it to multi state and actually an empire. 22 branches across 13 states generating order of over $60 million in the early 70s. He later launched Dave Yoho Associates, which remains one of North America's most respected consulting firms in the home improvement and remodeling space. Starting his career in a division of Reynolds Aluminum, Dave quickly rose to executive leadership before launching his own firm. Since then he's advised Fortune 500 companies and small businesses alike on sales, marketing, leadership and operations. He's the best selling author of how to have a Good Year, Early Year and why Buy Replacement Windows if you're in the home improvement sales or management. You've likely been influenced by his work, whether you know it or not. Dave, it's a true honor to have you on the show today.
- [02:36]
A
And now I have to live up to that introduction. Thank you. They're kind words. I'll pass it on to my grandchildren, who are largely more interested in the will, but this may impact them.
- [02:49]
B
I love it. Well, Dave, let's just get started here. Most people know who you are, but do you want to just catch us up to your career, what you're passionate about, what you've been up to, and what gets you excited every day?
- [03:00]
A
Okay. I can make it brief, though, because the average person is at a place in their life and they had to work hard to get to that place. They want to go from that place to another place, or they want to go from where they are and make it more efficient for what? They invest not only in money, but in time and energy and life. So how do those things compare? I'm a veteran of World War II. I was 17 years old when the war ended. I came out of school. I went to night school to get my undergraduate degree. And when I did, I took the first job that was offered to me. And I worked for a company called Tylo. May not know it was a public corporation, and they had 61 offices and 500 salespeople. And I started there as a salesperson and didn't like it, didn't understand it, and they dealt with a phenomena or two that I still utilize today, but didn't know it at the time, how powerful it was. And I'm from Philadelphia, moved to New York City area, had a great life up there. When I sold my business in 74, we already had an educational arm to the business. So I've been in every phase of the business. I've had the good fortune to work for Fortune 500 companies and startup companies. One of the startup companies that we work with today does $670 million. One of our affiliates and clients, that's over a billion. So what has happened? There's been a metamorphosis in the business from where I was to where it is today. But the commonality is, and this is for you and I and everybody listening, we deal with people and it's people issues. So along the line, we developed concepts. I study human behavior. I have an undergraduate degree in business, but most of all, the experiential background in this business. What we've developed is a science of in home sales, in whatever form you call it, whether you're giving Proposals or you're giving estimates or you're trying to close a sale. The concept is we are dealing with human beings and they are the focal points of everything we teach and everything we believe in. Because it's the way the customer thinks and feels, not what we did. And if you're listening to the news to help you get through the day, you already know it's a mistake. It'll leave you but nothing but depressed. So all of our concepts are baked in long, long range belief that we had to know and understand the customer better than any of our competition. And when we did that, then we became a large company turning millions of dollars at a time when, when I was doing 60 million, the average company who did a million dollars thought they were in high cotton. End of speech.
- [06:06]
B
I love it. No, you're right. I think that's the most important thing. But I think really getting the right people on board, I know you could teach a lot of people how to self believe in themselves, leadership, passion. But how did you figure out early on who was going to be a winner and getting the right people on.
- [06:25]
A
The bus, okay, that was a very costly thing. I worked for a large company who had big dollars for marketing and whatnot, and they attracted people. Why? Well, the population wasn't what it was today and a lot of people didn't have work. And they got into this business largely because there was no other way to do it. But the truth is in what you say, anyone can be taught to talk, to speak, to make what people often call a spiel or a presentation. But the concept of finding out how the customer thinks is largely based on an individual's concept and his behavior. So we utilize the behavioral profile. I've been working in that area alone for 45 to 50 years to determine which fit the best. Now, if you're already in the business and you own the business and you've made a lot of progress, you may not like some of the things that go on when you have to acquire people and teach them to sell. Because salesmen are illogical. If you have salesmen, workmen, it's illogical. We have clients who sell 15, 20, $30 million a year. And they'll have one salesman that does three and a half, four million, one guy, one gal. Now what makes them different? Different kind of behavior and the different ways they apply behavior. And that's one of the keys today. And one of the greatest things that you build a company, you build something where you want your reputation to precede you and your reputation to Be accepted so that the customer goes away feeling good, even if they don't buy. Hear me? Very important because of the Internet today. If they don't buy, they can say, whatever, nice people, lovely people, but they're too expensive. Too expensive doesn't mean you're charging too much. When they say too expensive, they don't see the value. And then that's an implant on us. So we have processes for all the things we do. We have a behavioral profile. If you haven't seen one, I'd be happy to have them send you one. It's not electronically, and we can tell in 8 to 10 minutes what your behavioral profile is, what you will do now, what you will do under stress, and what things you don't like that you may still do that take you away from being the best you can be. Now, we are not on this earth to change people from what they were. But we do have to have something built into our system called adaptability, Tommy, because that's the key. You're going to get in front of people you don't like, habits you don't like, smells you don't like, language you don't like. And so selling in one of those areas, selling is not fun. Selling is enjoyable when you complete it and you get an order. But suppose you got a real great organization and you issue leads, and 40% of those leads turn into sale. You're in high cotton, no matter what your competition tells you, because the average company in the marketplace today sells less than 30%, sometimes less than 25%. So that means you have to go out and generate leads, shows, events, advertising, radio, television, online, all the idioms that go with the modern civilization. But you're still not going to sell the majority of those people. So we look to every individual to show them what their behavior is, how that behavior works to their benefit and to their detriment. So if you go back in time, I don't know how old you are, but if you go back in time, people just say, hey, we hired a good, good guy. Good, good gal. While they're a fast talker, that's what makes you a good salesperson. If you balance it with good listening, then it might help you. But how do you become a good listener? It isn't easy. People have to be taught, have to be taught how to do it. But the first thing that has to be recognized, people have to recognize where they are. That's companies and that's individuals. And then they have to be motivated to work with. And then measured by the Metrics. And say the metrics in the industry today. What did it cost us to procure a lead? And then we give the lead to a salesperson, and then the salesperson does what he or she wants to do because that makes them comfortable instead of doing what is in the best interest of the homeowner. And a lot of things come to place. I may give you some thoughts here where you want to answer some questions about it. But that's the key thing. Do you have the right person? And then can they be trained in the process? Which also says not only do you need the trainee, but the trainer? And if you don't have a high type salespersonality and you're hiring salespeople, you're not going to like some of the things they say and do. I don't mean bad things. I mean just dumb things. And the language we use in ordinary life is not the language of selling. Hopefully that induces a question.
- [12:15]
B
It does. What is the difference between the language we use day to day versus the language of selling?
- [12:23]
A
Well, it's so basic. You didn't take a course in selling to go into the business you were in. And the chances are you had to work pretty hard at developing technique. Because somebody will say, let me tell you what they do over at Harry Jones. Let me tell you what Charlie Nigglish says in his book. Let me tell you what it says on the tape. There's a guy that sells cash registers, and here's what he does and what you're really looking at. What do we do now? Look at simple language. A man or woman, whether it's a spouse or a significant other, man or woman go shopping. And they invest a half an hour in getting to the shopping center. That's another 10 minutes trying to find a place to park. Now they're in the shopping mall and they find the store they want and they finally get up to the floor. The woman wants to see. And you're in woman's wear. And the woman, let's say it's your wife, bends over and looks at a garment. And as she's looking at it, the sales clerk comes over. Tommy, tell me what that salesperson says to her.
- [13:32]
B
Can I help you with anything?
- [13:35]
A
Okay. That's what 99% of them say. What do you think the answer is 85% of the time?
- [13:42]
B
No. Just looking.
- [13:43]
A
Okay. Now, we didn't rehearse this, did we? No, but everybody who's listening and just going to shopping knows that all wasted conversation. You didn't help her. Asking her A question, and she hasn't helped you with the answer, so you're an impasse. Now, just suppose in this one instance, this is what we. This is what we taught Nordstrom's years ago. When that woman is looking at that garment, the sales clerk came over and instead of saying, may I help you, say, excuse me, is this something for yourself or is it a gift for somebody? And the one will say, it's for me. What size are you? I'm a five. These are petites. Now, is it something for you? Yes. All right, let me show you where those are. Come on, I'll take you over there. Naji takes her over and says, here's the department. We have three lines here. Is this for vacation or wear, or is it for business wear? Is it for everything? Tell me. And the woman tells her, and she says, okay, here's the number five if it's something. Now, consider here. Here. Here are some items on sale. Let me take you there. Now, what that clerk has done is help that woman. Would you agree?
- [15:03]
B
100%.
- [15:05]
A
So why does she say, may I help you? Well, we work with Nordstrom's and we work with lomarks. We work with jc. We work with all these people years and years ago, made all kinds of press and worked with Bell Telephone when they broke up from AT&T to Bell. It is difficulty personified when you ask somebody to change what they do in their work life, with their business life. So again, if you say to that woman, what are you looking for? And you define what she's doing and you help her find a way to get it, you have solved the first level of building rapport. That person feels comfortable with you. But teaching people to do it, very complex. How do people answer the phone today? Listen, today we have AI. And God bless. I have some of my children involved in that AI industry. Love it. But I do tell you something. It doesn't reach the core of helping an individual. When that phone rings, the first voice should say, thank you for calling XYZ Company. How may I direct your call? They don't say that. They give you a long. Let me press 2 for this, 4 for this price, 6 for that. And you're not sure of that. You're back to number three. And they give you a litany of options that only confuse you more. Now go back to the woman shopping. What we did with her is not new. I didn't invent the language. And it goes back to something called Socratic teachings, which means if we can say to something to someone that Identifies with what they're thinking or feeling, we're in better shape. So how does it apply in our business? When the phone is answered, you say, thank you for calling xyz. What is the purpose of your call? Well, I say you're right, and I'd like an estimate. No problem. Here, let me clear my line so I can give you all of my attention. Draw a line for three seconds, come right back. Said, I've cleared my line. Now, how can we direct this? Let's start this way. Give me your first and last name. And then when they say the name, I write it down. Andrusky. Am I pronouncing okay? Mrs. Andrusky or Mr. Andrusky? Now, just in case we get disconnected, start out by giving me the phone you're on. Are you on a cell or are you on a house line? They tell you, give me the number and put it down. Now, what was your purpose in calling us today? How can we directly help you? Well, we saw your ad, and we'd like to have a price on whatever it is you sell. Is this for your home? Yes. All right. And where are you located? In the suburbs. Okay, now tell me, what do you want to know about the product? Are you having a problem with the products that you now have in your home, or you just feel they should be replaced? Or you're just inquisitive? No problem. Now, suppose they say, well, we have windows, and they all work pretty well. One or two don't work well. Why is that? Well, it's just tough to open. The one in our daughter's room is apparently the worst kind. And how long has it been difficult to open? The last couple years. Last couple years. Why are you calling us now? How come you didn't call us before? Well, we weren't ready. We were thinking of moving. Well, called at the right time. What you really need is somebody to show you what the conditions are and how they can be reworked or prepared as possible. But let me ask you this. How long have you owned your home? Now, what I've done is all prepping to ask them the sweat questions. And I will tell you, I can teach people. We set up scripts, we train them, and they'll say, well, that's being pretty nosy if you just openly asked them that. But you didn't do that. First, you showed them how you were benefiting them, and then they get to making an appointment, and the appointments are made incorrectly because they'll tell you, today we can't get both people at home. You're asking for it the wrong way. And if you say, well, the woman has to be there with the man, that's insulting. I find that whole thing insult. She doesn't have to be with the man. Give her a reason that she should be there with the man. And then if you simply said, this is the way it's done. We take a look at what you want to have done and what you need to have done. We will make an examination of your windows, kitchen, garage doors, whatever it might be. And we will take a look at these things again as to what you want to have done and what you need to have done. And if we can fulfill your want and your need, we will be able to give you an actual proposal on what your investment might be. Now, let me ask you something, Tommy. Is any event language confusing? No. Hard to teach people to say. Just that. Well, I don't know. I wouldn't. We don't do that. We're not high pressure. What is high pressure? High pressure usually evades truth and adds sequences that benefit only the guy saying it. We need. You had to have whatever that might be. So we have to change the language. And that's why processing requires presentation. Hey, I feel like I'm running a seminar and I apologize.
- [21:10]
B
No, you know, it's funny, Dave, I. Sorry to cut you off. I. I asked my mom to move out to Arizona from Michigan in 2010 because I needed help with the business. And she said, you know, honey, let me think about it. I've lived in Michigan my whole life. You're asking a lot. One week later she said, we're going to move to Arizona, me and your stepdad, Bill. And my mom got on the phones and she said, thank you for calling A1 garage door service. My name is Gina. How may I make your day better today? And she, she'd sit there and I watched her book the phone call. She'd say, oh my gosh, honey. Oh, Mr. Dave Yoho. Listen, I am so sorry to hear that. Let me tell you something about our company. And then, you know, back then I was a technician. And she said, listen, I've got this young man and he is the best at what he does. She's. He is from Michigan. He's the best guy. You're going to love him. When he walks up, he'll have a big white smile. You're big brown eyes. He's the handsome little devil, you'll see. But she never said she was my mom. And she tells stories and she was on the phone for 10, 12 minutes. And I like my calls booked in six. And then I'd be like, mom, book the phone call. And I always laughed. But what I didn't realize at the time is every time she booked the phone call, people would give me a hug when I'd show up, and they'd have lunch waiting for me, and they'd say, tommy, whoever that lady is, we're going to do business with you. Whatever the garage door needs, go ahead and take care of it. We trust you. And what I learned was my mom really cared, and that's a hard quality to find. You got to find people that really care. And I'm like, if we could book the call, like my mom booked every time. It's not just booking the call, but it's setting it up for success and talking about who's going out there. And this is the best dad you're ever going to meet. He's such a good husband. He's such a loyal guy. He knows garage doors like the back of his hand. And that's something we've worked really hard to do. I mean, right Now I have 70 people in my call center, and it's just. It's so much better than saying, hello, this is A1 garage door service. How can I help you? You know what I mean?
- [23:13]
A
Yeah. All right. Now, but you've also described a unique kind of behavior, because in the behavior of the people in your call center who are taking incoming coal, how many have your mother's personality? I'm not gilding the lily.
- [23:32]
B
Yeah, no, you're right.
- [23:33]
A
You drive her that she's never met a stranger. She can get gaga over the simplest of things and gets elaborate in her desk. She didn't tell them about the time you didn't change your socks for two weeks or that you wouldn't eat the vegetables unless you were deprived of plate. She didn't tell you about that? She stays on things which are upbeat. Now, how do we teach ordinary people to do this? Here's my answer by script. Give me. Are you married, Tommy?
- [24:04]
B
I'm engaged. I. I'm 42. Never been married. I've been married to my work, But I'm very.
- [24:09]
A
Okay, well, then I'll use it. But it's. I was going to ask you, how old are your children? I'm going to ask you, how old were you when you could say your A. ABCs?
- [24:19]
B
I had to be, you know, four years old.
- [24:22]
A
Okay. Did you know how to compose a sentence? Did you know how to spell when you learned your ABCs? No, but it's almost compulsory that you learn the Alphabet before you learn to put words together. And you got to learn that Alphabet by something called a mnemonic. That's a peculiar word. It's spelled with an M, N, E, M, O, N, I, C. Mnemonic is a series of words put into a fashion that are. It's like a little poem that you can read. So the child learns the ABCs. A, B, C, D, A, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P. That's called a mnemonic. We add to it a little bit of rhythm. That's called an iamic pentameter. You don't have to remember either of those words, but that's what it's based on. And every child can do it because the parent taught them how to do it using anemone. Now go back to adults. They have to be taught to say things that are scripted and suddenly they don't sound scripted. When you say to somebody that answers the phone, thank you for calling A1 Doors, thank you. They have to be saying it that way. So they have to be schooled. Now, we went to work with Bell Telephone when ATT broke them up into 13 and we took all the executives on a retreat. We had like 180 of them. We took them to a retreat. Now these were the executives and I got them to read sentences until they were saying, wait, wait, wait. We're not a bunch of kids and we're not a bunch of salespeople. What are you trying to teach us? I'm not teaching you anything. I'm going to show you what works in the greatest businesses and how it can benefit you. But if you don't believe it, you'll never teach anybody. It won't happen that way. So people get trashed. Now, you're still a relatively young guy and so when you were in the early stages of developing your business, you were the kid. You were the kid without experience. You said you were an installer. Am I correct?
- [26:42]
B
Yeah. Tech and installer. Correct.
- [26:45]
A
Okay. So how did you learn how to sell? How did you learn how to market? Costly steps along the line. Making a lot of mistakes, saying the wrong things. So people often think that a prepared, a progressive preparation of a script is wrong. Well, here's what I will tell you. When the right people say the right things at the right times, the outcome is more beneficial. However, now I'm telling you what I learned in the behavioral sciences. It takes a minimum of about 21 days to change the simplest of problems. And when I work with these activities. Here's what I get them to do. Tommy, put your hands together as if you were in prayer. Put them together. Okay, now you got them together. Look like this. See how my hands are? Okay. Which thumb is on top?
- [27:43]
B
My right thumb.
- [27:45]
A
Okay. Are you right handed?
- [27:48]
B
Yes.
- [27:49]
A
Okay. It's got nothing to do whether you're right or left handed, but here's what I will tell you. Close your eyes, then open your hands and try to put them back all opposite. Close your eyes, open your hands. Is it comfortable?
- [28:05]
B
No.
- [28:06]
A
Okay, so any change is uncomfortable and people resist it. So what often happens? You will get somebody in there who is a skilled, skilled whatever, technicians, the same way, technicians. It's difficult for them to understand. Then it's a people issue. It's the door, the equipment, the latches, the alarms or whatever that is. That's really incidental, how it benefits them and why you're doing what you're doing and the way you're doing it. And then if they don't know and we come into organizations and we send out about an 18 question survey to the guy's salespeople and it's all confidential, they send them back to us and we say things like this. What are the three most common reasons you receive from people as to why they are not going to buy from you? I asked for three most common reasons. Would you guess, Tommy, having never met me before, what those three common reasons are?
- [29:21]
B
Oh yeah, well, I need to talk to my wife or husband if it's a one legged stool. So that's the biggest one. The second one is we need to get three estimates because we're smart shoppers. And probably the third one is we just need some time to think about it.
- [29:43]
A
Okay, so now you've said the three things, a couple of which you can correct. There's a way to get more. Two party appointments, two party leads. But it's scripted and it has to be that the person listening to you on the phone sees it as beneficial to be there. Then they'll want to be there. And if you go to the issue, we want to get other prices. When they say how many prices are you going to get? How many prices do they usually say?
- [30:18]
B
We usually get a few different prices.
- [30:22]
A
Okay, and where did they get that language from?
- [30:27]
B
I don't know why the magic number is three, but I feel like three people.
- [30:32]
A
Yeah, a better business viewer tells you to get at least three. God bless them. We did a lot of work in the area of consumer protection. Why not five? Why not Four. Why three? Somebody had to pick a number, and they'll tell you three. It's one thing I will tell you. If you get three prices, one will be higher, one will be lower. Hopefully you're in the middle and not the lowest, because that'll bother you. But that's not the key to why you should get that. And what is it about what you're putting in that house that these people are going to invest in? What is it that you're doing there that is beneficial? And the answer is something that is important to them. Now, what is the average installation in your business, Tommy? What is it? What's the cost of it? Average.
- [31:28]
B
The average door sale is 6500 a door. One garage door. 6500 is our average.
- [31:36]
A
So what is the average day? Most people have two or three garages.
- [31:40]
B
A lot of homes have two. So if you're replacing both of them, you're at like 12 grand.
- [31:46]
A
Yeah. Right. Now, if this guy bought this house 17 years ago for $87,000, he said, what the hell? That's 25% paid for the house. And if he bought it for 23, now, how do we deal with that? Because there's a segment where we teach people to. It's called walk around or examination. And one of the things we determine there when they bought the house, what the houses are worth today. So in Socratic reasoning, if you can get those answers, you're way ahead. But Socratic reasoning said, wait, wait, wait. People don't want to hear that. They only hear a lot. So if I say to a guy, so, what did you pay for this house? $87,000 seems almost unbelievable. How long ago was that? 20 years ago. Whoa. So what is this house worth today? Oh, $350,000. No kidding. So you paid 87. It's worth 350. Whoa. You're looking at 260 grand equity in your property. And you know that that's untaxable. If you sell your house and you make $200,000, you don't have to pay any taxes on the increase in value. In fact, it's 250,000 for you, sir, and 250,000 for rent. So see, what you're doing, you're getting to a core as to why they have an asset. They have a hidden asset that they can utilize to get these doors. No expense at all. So. But it's only by talking to the people and asking pertinent questions and getting the response, and that sometimes, Tommy, difficult. It takes a period of time to do those things and remember about the thing with your hands. The minute you tell somebody, here my hand with the right thumb dominant. The minute you tell him something he's not used to doing, he'd back the left hand. Look at all the stuff he learned in his life about the Easter Bunny. Remember that one? Remember about Santa Claus? How about this one? Do not go into the water until an hour after you've eaten or you will get a cramp and die.
- [34:17]
B
Yeah.
- [34:17]
A
Remember all those things. Okay. None of them are true. It doesn't work that well. Don't go into the water right after you've eaten because you're using most of the internal organs in your body and the chemicals in your body to digest your food. So you're weakened at that point, but you're not going to cramp and you're not going to get a cramp and die. And so those are little segments that they use. And if you tell your people in your call center, what do you say to the people? I want to price over the phone. Well, I know. What do you say to them? I want a price over the phone. And suppose you say, that's fine. I'm writing that down now. Now, why did you select that? Well, because all doors are the same. Why else? Most companies that do what you do are in the same price range. What else? And they'll tell you, and they'll tell you all the reasons they believe that story. And here's what I say to them. Your house, 17 years after you bought it is a different house and your neighborhood the same thing. The people of different likes. If you build a house and you were sharing a common look or a common development, all that's changed. And you've changed and you have habits and appetite. And my role here is to find out what your needs are, the way you see them. Now, when we do the surveys of these salespeople again, and we get to the very last question, when we say, what could your company do for us to make your sales job better? We're asking the salesperson now. And remember, it's confidential. Company is not going to hear who sent it in. The question is, what could the company do to make your job more beneficial? 90% of the time they'll say, better leads and lower prices. Is anything that I'm saying to you today a strange language that you've never heard before?
- [36:32]
B
No.
- [36:33]
A
Okay, so that's the truth. But that gives time immemorial. And that's true. Not only people sell what you sell. You know, we have A client who sells pergolas. And the average pergola today is 50 to 60, $70,000. So in that price range, everybody's going to say, well, we could get it for less or whatever. So those are the things you prepare yourself for. And when a presentation is made, it should be made with the intent of dissolving some of those obstructions. And the problem is, you know, most people resist that. They don't want to hear that they have a value system that. Look, today many people, this is nuts to say this to you, but you probably already know this. Have a two garage home, two car garage home, and park on the driveway or on the street. Am I right?
- [37:40]
B
You're right.
- [37:42]
A
That's stupid. You got this garage, you got two cars worth 40 to 60 thousand dollars each, and you park them outside. What the hell do you have in your garage? The broken lawnmower. You don't even use it anymore. Cans of paint that came from the last time you painted, Right? A broken step. Whatever you do, people have a converted sense of values. We don't go in that house expecting to change those values. But if people do not have a sense of what is going on and why it's going on, then it's sad and you can't change the world. But take it from me, we can get people to modify their behavior and be stronger.
- [38:34]
B
Hey, guys, quick thing before we dive back into this week's episode. We're just 12 days away from Freedom 2025, and I keep hearing the same thing from people. I really want to come, but I'm just too busy right now. And listen, I get it. Your phone's ringing non stop. You've got constant fires to put out at work. But here's my advice. The busiest owners are usually the ones who need our freedom eventually the most. Because being too busy isn't a badge of honor. It's a sign that your business is running you instead of you running it. Look at it this way. What if three days in Vegas could save you three years of spinning your wheels? I've watched so many guys come to freedom completely overwhelmed, then go back home and implement strategies that made them more money and gave them back their time. Here are just a few of them. Mike said we went from linear growth to nearly $30 million. Yoel said we quadrupled our business in just a few years. Cody said our profit jumped from 500k to $3.5 million in just 12 months. I could share more testimonials, but here's what it boils down to over a thousand contractors are coming to Vegas this year. Will you be one of them? It's time to make your decision. Either way, if it's a yes, even if you feel overwhelmed, go to freedom event.com and grab your spot. Now that's freedmevent.com. now back to the episode. So when it comes to, you know, I've done predictive index, color code. Bring them Myers. I've done disc assessments, and, yeah, they're pretty spot on most of the time. But I just find it hard to tailor everything for different personalities. I try to find the right personality for that role. And if you're not, if you don't look somebody in the eye and smile, tell a great story, or you stutter all over the place, I don't know if sales is really your thing. I like to find people that are confident. They shake my hand, they tell a funny. My test is, would I go have a beer with this person and would I enjoy their company? Now, if I got to take somebody and train them forever to see, seem excited and make eye contact and present and have passion, then maybe I didn't recruit the right person, because I don't. I can't make every average Joe into somebody. I don't say, I need you to be great at sales. I need you to be a great human being that believes. Just like if I went to a doctor, Dave, if I went to a doctor and they said, well, they didn't make eye contact. They're like, well, you know, like, you know, well, I think maybe we'll try this prescription. I'm not really sure. And they didn't look at me. I want to go to a doctor that says, dave, how much are you working out? Are you smoking cigarettes? What's your diet like? How do you feel? Do you have anxiety, stress? What's new with the family? Dave, I'm gonna run a few tests for you. We're gonna make sure to fix you up. Now, what's closer, Walgreens or cvs? I'm gonna go ahead and prescribe you. Here you go. You're gonna feel better. Call me if you have any problems. And that's a quick scenario. But if you can't do that, the doctor is the doctor, and they're confident. And somebody that's not confident in themselves, I find it hard to train. And maybe you're telling me it doesn't matter who you are, as I could train anybody, but how long does it take to train them? If I learned my ABCs when I was three, I know people that took till they're five or six.
- [41:44]
A
Okay, let me respond to you. You are you. Nobody can come in and tell you you have to change the way you feel. But what you do have to do is take a profile and see what your strengths are and what things that you have in your behavior that you might want to see improved. Now here again, I'm going to send you one. You've done Myers Briggs, you've done disc before, but you're going to see a very unusual disc. We use three graphs, we have algorithms. We'll tell you if this person is easy to train or complicate to train, but it tells you a lot about yourself. And here's an example. What does the D stand for? Do you remember you've done this before. Dominant. All right, you have a high D. I can tell already. And so when you have a high D and you're following I, which stands for.
- [42:50]
B
It'S been a while, but I'm a high di.
- [42:53]
A
You are a high D. And you remember the id, the I, you won't remember. But if you have a d in the 6th quadrant all the way up here and an I in the fifth quadrant, the D dominates the I. But we don't have to teach you hard. Close. You will exemplify some of that in the way you close. Now, how will you train other people? You just told me you want him to be a guy that you could drink a beer with. And just suppose I were to tell you that we have in all the organizations that we work with people who don't fit that mode. They don't break any rules. They have a behavior that can be molded and that's what our dish tells them. We have an algorithm that decides this in about nine minutes when you. I'll send it to you electronically. It'll take you about nine minutes to do it. But we have a tutorial that is 72 pages long. And you can go to that tutorial and find your strengths and your weakness and the things you have to work on. And incidentally, you're a self made man. Anything about that is new to you? Anybody ever told you that before?
- [44:16]
B
No. I started from, started from washing dishes.
- [44:22]
A
Okay, so you're a self made man and you don't want to give any of that up. Because being a self made man, no matter what the obstruction was, you found a way to go through it or go around it or go over it. You did that. You didn't have enough money to start a business. You didn't let that stop you. That's because you're a high D. But the guy you also want is a guy who can identify with your. And as you have a profile, so does every customer. You have a profile. And so much of what we teach is based on a lot of things. There's a whole study in our book, our work called proxemics. And proxemics have to deal with how far are you? What's the distance between you and I as we talk? So what would really happen? Women can talk face to face, touch each other's hair and whatnot. Guys don't do that. Guys need about 18 inches or more. It's just the way it works. They may give you a great handshake, but you don't become convivial. Now we're not teaching people to become convivial. We're teaching people how to react to conviviality, how to work. Listen, I know you've been in a house where the people thought you were wonderful. Great sense of humor. Whatever you, your mother said about you was true, but they didn't buy from you. And now you sometimes wonder if the person who said they were going to buy and didn't buy or the person who you sold and then later on they rescinded or they were such nice people, but they gave your installer all kinds of heat because you're dealing with human nature. And that's what we're. Have you ever watched the commercial on Leafguard?
- [46:18]
B
Oh yeah, every day.
- [46:20]
A
Okay, so that's one of our clients. And we also have a management group, big management group, and he's one of the managing group. They do $1,200,000,000 annually. Average ticket is over ten grand. And they're able to do that. And if you look at that, every aspect of the business has to deal with some process. Got to be some processing. And we don't ask people to change what they are. We ask them to recognize the process and what works the best and then to try it. And something as simple as changing the way a phone is answered or the way a lead is set up, the phrases to put in there. Because whatever the phrase was that the marketing person set up, whatever that phrase was, now on the back end of that is the customer and she set that up. And now they give you and it's in eminent, it's on a piece of paper, a name, an address. And you'll get. A guy has to drive 20 minutes for a lead a lot different than if he has to drive an hour and 15 minutes for a lead. And so what has to happen, he will prejudge that. And if he has the right to call the lead, he may call the lead and say they weren't really interested. And they told me that we could just shoot them an estimate. He didn't want to go that way. He didn't want to drive there. Why not? He's a human being. Why should he? Because that's what it is. And did you ever hear our series Super Sales Training?
- [48:13]
B
I've heard of it, yeah. You guys have some of the best training out there.
- [48:17]
A
Yeah. And one thing I tell people in the early, I open it in Super Sales Training, and it's the best for small businesses. Why? Because you can give it to people and you can give it to. If you have 12 salespeople, you can give it to all 12 of them over the weekend. They got to listen to it. When you come in, there's a test on this, and I wasn't busy. I want to watch a football game. No, no, no. You have to give this. How many? Seven, eight, nine minutes. And I'm going to ask you questions about it. Because what we look for is synchrony. And synchrony comes from understanding the customer. So I often leave a sales meeting with this. How many of you like to sell? What percentage now you've been at? We did the first meetings ever for the door closure business. First. There was an Italian guy who founded the organization, and when it was brand new, we did the meetings for them. And they'll say, like you would say, I don't know, I get along pretty well. I got a personality and I don't need all that stuff. But the truth is, selling is not fun. Selling is serious business. You make it fun, but it's serious business. So in the opening thing about selling, I unhinge them, right? Anybody who watched it right away says, this is going to be a good guy. Why? I said, how many of you like to sell? Now they're at home, on their sets, in the office, wherever it is, and they'll say, I like to sell. So I'll say, well, how many of you ever got a lead? And when you get to the house, no one's there. Fun. How many ever got a lead and you get to the house and only one party is there. Fun. How many get to the house and the one party is nice and the other party is the pain in the ankle. How many of you get to the house and you know you're going to get an order? And the people say, well, let you know, we'll think about it. We'll get back to you. And you can't even get them back on the phone. How many of you have been out on a call here in the old, good old Phoenix area where the temperature's been over 90 degrees? Or how many of you ever worked in an environment where you went on a call where the temperature was under 20 degrees? Now, is any of that fun? No, no, no, that's not fun. Getting the order is fun. And so the more times you get an order, then you're elated. But you have to go through all the process. Nobody sells 100%, nobody sells 80% or 60%. That's not the way it works. And you'll go to conventions and you'll hear some go, well, we got that little science today. We do most of it through AI. Do it over the phone is my answer. God bless, because it's still a people business. And what you charge for two garage doors is not a fleet. It's not $10.87 or $104. This is real money we're talking about. So if that person cannot be convinced of value, you're going to have a tough time closing them. So I repeat again, I'm going to send you one of the profiles.
- [51:39]
B
I'm all in on it. Well, I'll just have you know, Dave.
- [51:41]
A
Well, it all takes you about eight or nine minutes to do it and do it and read about yourself and see how accurate is.
- [51:48]
B
You know, Dave, when I was in the service side of it now, I didn't close every door, cell, but I closed every single service call except for 18 years running jobs. And I can tell you the way I did it was I treated them like family. And I said, listen, are you moving next week? You staying in the home? And I always gave them options because I felt like if I'm not giving you options, I'm giving you ultimatums. If you said, Dave, that's just, that's not what I wanted to do right now. That's more than I wanted to spend. All right, Dave, no problem. I completely understand and I agree it's a lot more than I'd like to spend. It's. It's an investment, but let's just pick another option. And I'd go wait in my van. I'd say, call around. You tell me if it's an honest company with good reviews, that is BBB accredited and they've been around for a while. I'll figure out a way to earn your business. I'm here And I just wouldn't take no for an answer. But I treat him like gold. And I didn't have to try because I genuinely love people. And I've had some people say, I'm not even going to talk to you. You're a technician. Just go do the work. And okay, sure enough, no problem, sir. And that's the way I was. And I always bring coffee on the way. I always knock the door. I never ring the doorbell. Cause strangers ring the doorbell. I always play with the dog. And I always get to know the people. And I'm not saying I'm the best, but I never left without getting the HOA president's number. I never left without getting both neighbors names. I never left without asking for three reviews. And I know I'm the founder and I can't expect people to do what I did, but it's not a hard thing to do if you care.
- [53:24]
A
Okay, and now you said two things. You don't try to teach them what you're doing. Yet. Many of the things that you say and do are ultimates. They do really work the best best. But that doesn't mean you can convince everyone to do it that way. You can't teach everyone to be you. What you can teach them is how does it work? And remember what I just said to you about selling isn't fun. And most people don't like to sell. No, but most people who sell like to get the order. Now there's a difference. And so every, every concept that we put into our training with a company, we tell them. We tell the company in advance. Our job is to enable your salespeople to sell more business with the same leads and in the same amount of time. And the moment they do that, that's gratification. But the salesmen are really quintessential. We have a client in New England who sells siding. Now in New England they make a lot of houses. They're joint houses. They're called duplexes. Common roof, there's a wall down the center. One house here, one house there. You do those houses, they're three stories high, you're looking at 75, $80,000 job. Now they're working on a commission basis of, let's say, 8%. And they sell that. And when they come back, they're so elated, they don't sell anything for the next two weeks. Why? Because there's a mental conditioning about being satisfied. So that's not wrong. But you have to have a compensation system and a control system that doesn't Let that happen to them. You really have to be like a sheep herder that does what make the sheep perform the way you'd like them to proceed. And that's why we bring out these studies and why we bring out the thing that we do. And people go even see this online. It's called super sales training. Everybody doesn't have to do every part of it, but if they go online To Triple W supersalestraining.com and what it does is start out very gently with them and explaining that there are combinations that go into everyone's success. Changing people is complicated. Adapting is a lot less complicated. What else do you want to ask me, Sir Thomas?
- [56:11]
B
I want to do a quick speed round. Number one, you are dressed up to the nine. Probably something. It's. It's very hot. It's 120 degrees outside. I wear a nice collared shirt every day, but I've got shorts on. When did you start dressing like that?
- [56:29]
A
Well, and I dress this way on special occasions. I dress this way when I go to church. I dress this. My children's weddings, my grandchildren are born and whatnot. And I dress them to show appreciation for the people who are giving up time to listen to me. Anybody listens to this has to invest about an hour to listen to it. So I'm saying in appreciation, I like clothing and I spend a lot of money on my clothing. But I put my clothing on to be an appreciation. Now when it comes to selling in the home, you also don't want to look like you're care. There's a caste system, so it's a lot different. But in these occasions, that's the way I dress. And thank you for noticing.
- [57:18]
B
I love it. And you know, I know you've been doing this a long time. I see a lot of people. My dad's 72. He still works on cars. He owned a bunch of transmission shops, but he shoots. Pulling golfs a lot. He doesn't really go to the office. What is it about what you do? Obviously you're very passionate. You know, is there ever a time where you're just going to say not going to the office anymore? Or this is just. This is just part of your DNA. This is.
- [57:49]
A
Well, my son, the one here is. His name is Brad. He's the COO and he runs his business now. I'm the president of the company, but I do this as. He set this up. You've never met me. He sets all this up. And he has a model for running this business. And everybody around in this business dresses in very casual clothing. And in truth, I don't always wear a tie to come in. But there is something about the aging process, and it's the aging process cause you to go in decline when you aren't doing the things that will make your memory better or makes you think better. What did you read? What did you study? So I buy all the studies. I read all these studies so that I am capable of interpreting at the client's face. Anybody that I work with, I call a client at their base. Now, you know, I work for people who have. I got work, but a guy got 150 offices. I never get to go in all those offices, but I get to address those people almost once a month in something like this and answer their questions. And I dress like this for that purpose. And he says much the same thing. Why are you doing this? When are you trying to make me look bad? He says, you're trying to make me look. No, no, no, no, no, no. I want to show the people in your organization that I am prepared for them. And so I have a wide vocabulary. I have a wide study. I have an undergraduate degree in business. I have graduate studies in behavioral psychology. I'm a veteran of World War II. I'm a congressional gold medal winner. None of that is important except how I determine to use it. And I intend to use that and think like these sales. Because I remember being a salesperson and I wasn't always treated kindly in the open stages. I don't mean treated badly, but much would you say, you know, I'm a new guy and a new kid on the block and why should I get a lead when they didn't get a lead yesterday, whatever that might be. So I don't want to bow to anybody. I want to appeal in my words to what they're thinking and saying. Now, do you have other people on the call today or. Dude, this you edit.
- [60:21]
B
This will be edited and going out. But there's. It's the number one podcast in home service. Very proud of the listeners.
- [60:28]
A
And how many people will be on the line?
- [60:32]
B
You know, there will be 50,000 people the first month that listen to it.
- [60:35]
A
Okay, so you're going to get a percentage of this. It'll tell you right away, or that guy's high pressure. You know, I don't know that we have people who say that, but I do believe also that our job is to sell ideas to people. And if we continue to sell ideas to people, they get it. They get that you have hired them to Be your messenger with the way you run a company and the energy that you put into it and the image that you want society to have on you, that you're worth more money. You're worth spending an hour and a half to two hours listening about the garage and the opener and the stud. Now listen, would you believe this? You have competitors that don't have workers compensation. Oh, yeah, okay. Would you believe that you have workers who don't know anything about residual.
- [61:33]
B
Right.
- [61:35]
A
And what happens, we want to do things right, the other guy doesn't, but we want to call it to the attention of the people. And so these are things that we start with. When we start to tell them, we don't tell them outright. We ask them some questions. Like if you say to somebody, so when's the last time you had some home improvement or home service project complete on your home? And they tell you, and you say, so why do you have it done? Well, we need to have it done. We had to have our bathroom changed. Okay, how'd that work out? Well, eventually it did, but it took a lot of time. And then he couldn't get some of the parts and then he had an accident and one of his trucks broke down. So they had to put a new crew on the job. And they're going to tell you all these things which didn't make them happy. And what they're really setting you up to do is take all the things they said about what they last did and not to draw them into the conversation. Say simply. And so one of the things we have a project, the project and the average project and you give them man hours, the planning hours. When the guy arrives, the guy's going to be there at 8 o' clock in the morning. He'll call in advance and say that it'll be set up to get there between 8 and 10. And if he's smart, he gets there closer to 8. But all the things are conditioning the customers to reality.
- [63:12]
B
I love it.
- [63:12]
A
Other question.
- [63:13]
B
Well, Dave, I, I gotta get going here. But if we want to get a hold of you, and by the way, I want to meet you in person. I'm super impressed. I, I really, I love this stuff. I'm gonna go first, I'm gonna do the personality test and I should have made more time because I could go for hours with you. I love learning from you. Www.supersalestraining.com get the personality test.
- [63:39]
A
They'll send that to you. So you have, I probably don't get, but Brad or one of his assistants will send that to you so that all those things are there and you can do that. And the other thing is when to meet. We still do seven or eight major programs a year and I appear in most of them. I'm going to be appearing in one. When is it? Octo October 28th, 29th and 30th here in the Washington, D.C. area. But what we're going to do at that meeting is called a gathering of eagles, and they'll send you that as well. And you'll get to meet some of these people. I talk about the guy that does a billion, a guy with 12 offices that does 700 million. And they all went with you went through. They all went through these things. And so they'll tell you what that is. Brad handles that. I'd love to meet you. When are you going to get married?
- [64:38]
B
Oh, we're out of ways. We're getting married the beginning of 2027 and we're excited. We got a lot of stuff in motion, though. We're building a couple houses and we decided to make sure it's perfect. So we're scheduling everything. We pick the venue. So we're out about a year. But we're going to start pushing for kids right away.
- [64:55]
A
Once that happens, God bless. I had my last child when I was 51, so you can keep on doing that for a long time.
- [65:06]
B
Well, Dave, it's been an honor, my friend. I will definitely be reaching out to you and I would love to do another session of this. I learned a lot. I've got a lot of information of things we need to change within my company that I took from this. And it's always educational. So appreciate your time very, very much.
- [65:24]
A
And with that, you can show them a posting that if they went online and simply googled me, there may be 200,000 entries about all different kinds of subject venue. But any of them, then they can go online and get the answers to a lot of the things that we talk about. And we have intensely marketed all our products so that they fit everyone's pocketbook. All right, listen, I have to tell you, Tommy, it has been my pleasure as well, and I look forward to the next time we meet.
- [66:01]
B
We will. And I want to meet your sons as well. So I'll make sure that happens.
- [66:05]
A
So have them reach out right down those states. Then he'll send you news on that. But right down October 28th, 29th and 30th. Right now I got it. And it'll be. Have you flown into Washington often?
- [66:18]
B
I. No, no, I haven't never been a.
- [66:21]
A
D.C. okay, well, we're six minutes from from one of the airports. Six minutes. So it's near the airport. Easy to get in now. And they'll send information on and good luck to you, Tommy. My pleasure.
- [66:34]
B
My I promise you we'll be seeing each other. Keep up the great work, my friend.
- [66:40]
A
Take care.
- [66:41]
B
All right, buddy. See ya. Hey there. Thanks for tuning into the podcast today. Before I let you go, I want to let everybody know that Elevate is is out and ready to buy. I can share with you how I attracted a winning team of over 700 employees in over 20 states. The insights in this book are powerful and can be applied to any business or organization. It's a real game changer for anyone looking to build and develop a high performing team like over here at A1 garage door service. So if you want to learn the secrets that help me transfer my team from stealing the toilet paper to a group of 700 plus employees rowing in the same direction, head over to elevateandwin.com forward/podcast and grab a copy of the book. Thanks again for listening and we'll catch up with you next time on the podcast.