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The Home Service Expert Podcast
From Turf to Triumph: A Leader's Journey with Dillion Georgian
01:03:05
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- [00:00]
A
I understand what my people's goals are and I take that very serious. And my job as a leader is to be able to develop my leaders and my people. And I'm failing at my job unless I do that. And if it's just all fluff and you can't get in that real conversation, I'm not going to be able to make headway.
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B
Welcome to the Home Service Expert, where each week Tommy chats with world class entrepreneurs and experts in various fields like marketing, sales, hiring and leadership to find out what's really behind their success in business. Now your host, the home service millionaire, Tommy Mellon.
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A
Hello.
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B
Before we get started, I wanted to share two important things with you. First, I want you to implement what you learned today. To do that, you'll have to take a lot of notes. But I also want you to fully concentrate on the interview. So I ask the team to take notes for you. Just text notes N O t e s to 888-526-1299. That's 888-526-1299 and you'll receive a link to download the notes from today's episode. Also, if you haven't got your copy of my newest book, elevate, please go check it out. I'll share with you how I attracted and developed a winning team that helped me build a $200 million company in 22 states. Just go to elevateandwin.com podcast to get your copy. Now let's go back into the interview. All right. Welcome back to the Home Service Expert. Today we got Dylan Georgi and he is an expert in artificial turf distribution and installation. Former ce. I guess you're the CEO now.
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A
That's right.
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B
Boise. Dylan is a trailblazer in the artificial turf industry, building multiple category leading companies including turf distributors, artificial grass liquidators. Built right. And artificial grass recyclers. Starting from a humble beginning, he helped scale TD into a national powerhouse by focusing on innovation, culture and customer centric solutions. Dylan is known for spotting market gaps early, developing vertically integrated businesses and pushing the turf industry forward through sustainably. Sustainably and operational excellence. Today he continues to lead new ventures and expand the future of the turf life.
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A
Yeah, thanks Tommy.
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B
That was a mouthful.
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A
Yeah, it was a lot going on there.
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B
So tell me a little bit about what got you into turf. You started when you were 18, where you built the company, what you're excited about.
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A
Yeah, for sure. So started back when I was 18, worked for a guy doing turf, was working in the yard, had an opportunity to partner. Partner with him in Temecula, California. And so the whole model back then was we go to the manufacturers and buy scraps of artificial grass or pennies on the dollar and sell it on Craigslist. So did that with my partner for about three years and then had the opportunity to buy them out. And from there scaled through like multi retail channel, opened up our own retail stores selling to homeowners, and then learned in the supply business, the contractor game is really where it's at. So then leveled up, made some nice showrooms, sold to contractors, and then 2018, really moved out of retail, sold those retail stores and got fully into distribution. And so now we supply artificial grass companies really across America.
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B
So you do B2B?
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A
Yeah, currently do B2B. That's one of the main businesses I have.
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B
And is there like tax credits involved with moving artificial grass?
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A
There is. And like Vegas currently has like a massive one right now.
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B
So what are you excited about? You jumped back into the CEO seat? What, what was that like?
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A
Yes, it was different, Right. I think us as people and entrepreneurs, like a lot of our excitement comes from like running a business, right? The, the highs and the lows, having your back against the wall, it's always exciting. And like I promised myself when I turned 30 and hit, hit nine figures by the time I was 30 and I have two little daughters and I said, hey, I'm gonna kind of take the backseat and I wanna spend time with them. Like, you know, life's not all about money. It's not all about building a big business. I, I really designed my life to be where it is today. Grind, build a good sized company. When my kids, you know, at a certain age, I just wanna kind of set back and hang out with the family. So as exciting as that sounds for everybody, everybody listening, it wasn't that exciting. I love, I love my family, right? But I feel, I feel like I lost myself in it a little bit. Like I wasn't excited, didn't have the energy and you know, yeah, I lost my CEO in the deal. So I was out for like eight months. And there's a little bit of transition, but good for him. The guy's with me for 10 years. He got to move through our business, got recruited by like a master manufacturer. So it was really good for him and his family. Like, I love the guy and jumped back in. And this time's a little bit different. You know, I got to kind of sit back on the side and watch it happen. And then when you, you know, jump back in and take control you could change some things. So we've made massive movement. I've been able to not not only grow revenue, but I shaved my overhead about 40% in a 12 month period with.
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B
Where did the overhead come from? Labor or from materials?
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A
It's all in labor, just on the pnl, like looking through every single piece of the expense line.
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B
So when you think about chopping labor, what did that exercise look like? I'm curious because I think a lot of people have way too much bulk.
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A
Yeah, for sure. So it's efficiency is like when your, your back's against the wall, right. You're not turning the profit you need to have. And a lot of people look at business and say, especially in smaller business, like, hey, I'm profitable. And I don't look at it that way. You have to have a, a healthy net margin in case you ever want to exit, if you want to get investors, if you need to get a bank loan, whatever. So when you. I set the standard of our company of having a healthy net margin. Anything under that is, that's like losing money. Right. And so we went line by line on really like what we should have and what we shouldn't have and had those hard conversations and give the leaders of the business a budget to work within. And then it was just, we have P and L calls with each group every single, the first Monday of every single month and just cut out everything we can.
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B
And so you're extra lean right now.
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A
Extra lean. But we're running better than ever. Sometimes it got to 350 people at one point. And just the minutiae and the time that everybody's spending of just the, I guess, internal political agility. Right? Yeah, a lot of wasted time goes down there. So yeah, we're running lean, but we're, we're highly efficient.
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B
You know, I've always said 1a equals 3b. If you pay, let's say you paid an a player 50 bucks an hour.
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A
Okay.
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B
And you have 3B players that you're paying 30, that a player will run circles around the 3B. You're paying him 50 or her 50 and you're paying the other 390. And you're actually saving money because you got efficiency plus eight players love other A players. That changes the whole workflow.
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A
That's right. And so like speaking to that a little bit on like how we run, because a lot of our stuff is like, we don't have much labor. It's just what's in the distribution, not on, not really in the installation business. I Have a company that does that but they sell all their labor. Right.
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B
Okay.
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A
And so one of the biggest things that helped us get to the reduced overhead and maximum profit was bonusing. Like all of our key leaders that can make decisions, they all have their own P and L and the qualifier to get their bonuses ebitda. So that net profit has to be where at that healthy state that we want to be at. And then that qualifies them into their metrics that they must hit to go ahead and get their bonus.
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B
Have you ever thought about doing anything thing with. And this doesn't work unless you plan on selling within five or seven years. But form of equity incentive program or, or phantom equity or there's a lot of different terms for this profit units.
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A
Like bringing somebody in or doing it with our.
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B
Just doing it with the internal people.
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A
Yeah, absolutely. So all my key people have an equity stake. So not I, I've done phantom stocks in the past. I don't have anybody with phantom stocks today. The problem with that is when you do phantom stocks, unless you put something in there of like, hey, unless you're with the company, that's the only way this works. Right. Which a lot. It's not that incentivizing. The last thing I would want to happen when I looked at the phantom stock option was give somebody phantom stocks and they exit or you term them or something goes wrong and you go into court or whatever. Whatever happens. Right. Then they don't work for your company anymore, but they have stock at your company. The goal of an entrepreneur and owner, the reason you give out stock is you want to take some responsibility off you and you want your team to go ahead and carry that and drive it forward so you're not tied to the company as much. Right.
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B
Well, that's one of the things.
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A
Yeah. Well. And you want them to think like you and perform like you. Right.
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B
And you don't want them to quit if they get a better offer. They're going to go, if I quit, I lose all this equity.
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A
That's right.
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B
And then the other thing is. Yeah. You said you act like an owner. And the reason why phantom equity or EIP works is it's very hard when there's a bunch of people at the table with real equity. They all get voting rights and they all got to pay a shit ton of tax.
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A
That's right.
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B
Here and now you're going, sorry, this is supposed to be a good thing, but we made a lot of money and you got to pay taxes.
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A
That's right.
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B
And so There's. And this is the deal with stock options. If you're a public traded company, they never give them stock. They say the stock's worth $10 today. It's an option. You could buy it 25% a year for the next four years. So it goes up to 100. You could buy 25% of that option. Yeah. You'll make the $90 and they can get a loan for that.
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A
Hmm.
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B
So. And they're not leaving because the stock's continuing to go up. So it's the same thing that Home Service a lot of companies should be doing. We went from 12 million to 29 million in 18 months of EBITDA by doing an EIP program.
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A
Wow. It's amazing.
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B
They start sprinting.
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A
Yeah. So we. I have everything on an earn out now. Okay. Right. So if the company sells, or if the majority of.
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B
Yeah, the majority of the company of 50.1%.
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A
Yeah. Then they could. They could cash out if they want to cash out. But I have it listed as if we sell or the majority interest changes.
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B
That's exactly what I. That's the only way to run them. So I tell people, if you don't have a plan to sell, that means nothing to anybody. Right. Like, we don't really have a plan. We're just gonna keep running it. And then I'm like, it's kind of selfish not to want to sell.
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A
Yeah.
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B
If you've got that structure. Because now you're taking all these draws. Oh, look it, he just got a new Beamer.
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A
Right.
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B
Oh, he must have took a draw and that draw. So we don't take draws. Okay. I don't take any money out. In fact, I'm trying to move my salary to $5 minimum wage. Yeah. A year. And I don't even want to take a salary. There's no point. I pay 45% taxes.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And the CEO, a lot of times, when you're the founder, what's the point of taking. I've got enough money, and all of a sudden, let's just say I'm paying myself 300 grand. Yeah. Let's say the multiple is 15x. I own half the company today. So let's just do some simple math. 15x times 300 grand is 4.5 million. Half of that comes to me.
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A
Okay.
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B
So it would be smart to get rid of my salary.
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A
Right.
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B
I'd have to have a no salary. Going to the next deal, too. Yeah, yeah. Just things I. I love this math equation because it's like every dollar I save, I make 15 or I could use a 12 multiple or an 18 or whatever you want. What are the multiples like in your industry?
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A
Yeah, so in distribution, currently, it's about a seven.
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B
Seven.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And I. I don't know if you want to telegraph this across the world, but do you have a plan? Is there like an exit strategy you're building?
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A
Yeah, I'm. I'm prepping the company to always be if I want to sell, like, the financials are always good to sell. Because in the beginning, it was for a very long time I didn't make money or I lost money to grow, like, revenue that I didn't really know better, you know, I didn't. I didn't know.
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B
You put it all back in. Let's grow revenue. Grow revenue, Grow revenue.
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A
Yeah, but then you start having responsibilities and like kids and all that kind of stuff, and you look at things differently and like, hey, I have to have, like, security like this. This has to work. Right? And so, yeah, there will be a day when there's most likely be a day when we sell the company.
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B
Have you done any deals where you sold any companies?
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A
No, just like the retail storefronts, those were like simple, hey, 100, pay us $100,000 and buy product from us for five years, you know.
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B
Oh, that's great. Yeah, it still works out.
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A
Yeah. So we different strategic deals like that all the time.
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B
So, yeah, I. I think it's interesting when you start talking to bankers, the best advice I could give you is find the bankers that done great big deals, similar businesses like you, and go talk to them. Go meet with them like Q1 of next year.
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A
Okay.
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B
And say, what are some of the leading indicators? How do I get the multiple from seven to eight? What would they. Is it reoccurring? Do I have to change my contract structure? What things can I do? And all of a sudden, if I didn't meet Eric van Dam in 2020, I mean, he laid it all out. He told me, you need a president. You need to build your HR team. You don't have an FP and a team. You don't have this Interesting. You got to build that up. I was a little under 5 million of EBITDA when I met him. We got the 27 and a half when I did the first deal.
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A
It's amazing.
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B
And it's like they got all the answers because they do so many deals. They know exactly what buyers are looking for.
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A
Yeah. So they really give you the roadmap and. Yeah.
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B
And say, look, if you did this, this this. And then they'll tell you, like he told me, you got to be north of 20 million to get the multiple you want.
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A
Yeah. Interesting. So, yeah, I mean, I love what we do. I'm working on building some other brands because, like, the hardest thing is the people.
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B
Right.
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A
And getting people that you trust and could work well with. You gotta, you gotta go through some teams to get the right team. And so I'm currently building that. So if I do sell, I'm not starting from scratch. Like, I have a whole management company and moved a lot of my key people in there that don't, that don't run that brand. Let's say hr.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Accounting, all that kind of stuff. So that, that always stays with me as I sell a brand.
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B
So that's what I did. I formed a family office. So I got a lot of smart people in the family office that could come into any business and help run them. Yep. And it's mostly tax, tax planning and, and then the diligence. Because the best thing, I think, is to buy a business and make it better. I mean, currently, I think once you build a great business and a platform, it's better to be able to greenfield and just grow organically because then you could call your own shots.
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A
Right.
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B
But so, so tell me, you know, you said something really interesting I want to dive into. So what did you think it was going to be? Like, I got two young daughters, I'm happily married, I'm in Boise, I'm going to step back. And then you were like, ah, well, it's not what I thought it was going to be.
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A
Yeah, well, like, hey, I'm going to rewind a little bit from there. Is like, you go and build a business and you think of like, I want to be this entrepreneur and have this, you know, this crazy life. Right. But that life comes with a lot of responsibilities, a lot of pressure, different things like that. So it changes a little bit. Then you go the other side. I'm like, okay, I got business, I'm making money. Like, what's it look like to. To not work, right? Let's go have fun. Let's go use the toys, do all that different stuff, and it's only exciting for so long. And then you.
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B
How long do you think?
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A
Three weeks. Three weeks? Yeah, Three weeks until I was like, looking at, like, hey, what else can I go do? Like, I'm not a guy who could sit on the beach or sit at a bar. Like, I gotta go do stuff.
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B
Or, you know, what about golf or fishing?
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A
I. I Can't really golf. Like, I. I'll go play a couple holes and I'm like, I gotta, I gotta get moving.
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B
Okay.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So that started.
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A
I need to learn that. I need to learn how to slow down a little bit.
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B
I think we all have that. And that's what's interesting about the world we're stepping into. I mean, with artificial intelligence, a lot of people don't want to talk about it, but you can't just, you know, the industrial revolution, you could go get another job, right? I mean, hey, the farmers weren't as neat as they used to be. They had to run the machines. So you get like a massive piece of equipment. It could do the job of 50 people.
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A
Yeah.
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B
They just learn another trade.
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A
That's right.
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B
With AI, there is no other trade. It took over that and it's taking over this and it's taking over this.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And I mean, this is not like a crazy, crazy, like doom and gloom story, because I think we're going to go through Utopia. But what the hard part for me is, I love running a business. I feel like this purpose.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And it's like you. The same thing is like you wanted to get back into the saddle. What'd you do the next seven months? So you take about a little over eight months. So after that first month kind of wore down. What, what were you thinking? What were you doing? Because you had another CEO.
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A
Yeah, I started looking at other opportunities, like, all over the place, like anything I could think of. Because I. I landed in turf super young. I didn't know what I was getting into.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So when you do business for a while, then you, you step back, you're like, hey, if I do this all over again, what would it be? And so that's where I spent a lot of my time of just geeking around on stuff. Learned how to cook, just like random things, you know.
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B
But what really got you excited that you were looking at? What were some of the things like, where were you looking and what was like, no way. And what was like. I could see myself doing that.
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A
Yes. I looked at a few different, like four different things. One was like racing simulators and building, like an experience center where you go in and you go race and create like a circuit where people can make money doing it through a machine versus an actual car.
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B
Okay.
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A
So that sounded fun. Got into the golf cart industry because my family and I love to cruise a golf cart around. Yeah. Floor tiles. Just because it's simple, it's a niche market. So that business actually doing Pretty well.
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B
These are things you, what you started all this stuff?
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A
I started on the same thing. Pulled back, but the. The floor tiles. Yes. The golf carts went pretty big on that. On that business. So yeah, those, those two are. Are up and up and moving.
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B
Wow. So you, you start all the. When you start these businesses, where do you start? You build a business plan. Like, what are the. The foundational blocks to get something up and going.
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A
Yeah. So that's, that's really. I think my specialty is because I've started from nothing with really no money and I've had to rub pennies together. That's what I really thrive in is like grabbing an idea and making something happen. So really you need to understand, like the financial of the business and what's out there. Like, can you make money doing it? I think a lot of people get into business thinking it's could be exciting and then they. They don't make any money doing it or they quit or whatever. So I really go look to see what the financial outlook could be and then I'll see where my entry is. Is there room for somebody else in the market? Like, you could always go find room and make it happen, but like, I don't want to have to go face 10 years of like battling it out with some people. Right. And so the golf cart industry, I noticed, like, nobody's built a brand. Yeah. It was just like, hey, there's here's a golf cart. Right. Nobody's built like a lifestyle. So I thought that would be a good entry. Nobody's done it. Very. Nobody's an e commerce of golf carts. They're, you know, they're only 15 to 20 grand. But if you could build a brand, well, people could order online. So nobody's done that. It's all. You have this heavy margin of manufacturer, distributor, dealer and consumer.
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B
Right.
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A
And so my model is. Okay, that looks like there's good margin for what I could get these carts out and sell it. I'm going to cut out everything in between and go all the way direct. And so, yeah, just going through the numbers and then where you could add value to an industry that somebody else is not capturing it.
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B
So do you start from the beginning of buying like the wholesale tires and all the parts and assemble it, or do you like, what's the best way to think about it? Because that's a lot. They're completely different things. Like you're putting it together. Like, you could go find the plastic and buy the molds too. Like, how far do you take it?
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A
Yeah, I Don't go that deep. So there's manufacturers that do that, that will, you know, they'll build you really anything that you want. And they, they build the product, you slap your brand on it.
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B
Yep.
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A
So I start from there so I don't have the liability and the risk of setting up a manufacturing plant.
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B
Right.
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A
And like my whole M.O. because I got my butt kicked. Like a lot in business is like revenue before expense. No matter what startup, I don't care how much money I have, I don't care how well the business is doing. We could build a great plan for next year. And if there's expense in there and that revenue is not proven, it's not happening.
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B
I love that try. It's a way to try it. Make sure your thoughts and your beliefs are aligned with what's really going to happen. It's a testing period.
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A
That's right. And I, and I do the work myself. Like, although I have a, a lot of people, I work from other companies. Like when I start something new, like I'm, I'm doing every piece of it to understand the business in and out. And then I hire people and hand things off.
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B
What do you like the most about doing business? Are you a marketing guy? Do you love digging into the numbers? Do you love the operational side?
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A
I like all of it. I like the, really the challenge of it. I like having to figure something out that really seems impossible and getting people together and just saying like, hey, here's, here's a problem, here's an opportunity. How do we go make it happen?
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B
So with td, it's become one of the largest players in the industry. What were the inflection points that allowed this company to scale so quickly?
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A
Yeah, so the big piece was the retail to distribution. So that, that was a massive milestone for me. And I'll explain. We. When I was in retail, I went through a period of time where I wasn't making any money and I didn't have cash in the bank either. So like you're going month to month type of deal. Right. And I did it for a year and everything. Most of my retail outlets were in Southern California. And so when you're at a spot, if you're not making money and you're having a very hard time, you have to figure out different ways to do things. So I grabbed my whole team. I had like 10 leaders at the time and I said, hey, like this isn't working and I'm going to propose something to you. If we're going to do it, we have to do it quick and it's going to risk everything, but it's not working anyways. And so what I proposed, instead of having these retail locations with operations on the back of them, I said, let's consolidate the operations into one centralized distribution hub, sublease all the warehouse space, consolidate our resources so we could pay, you know, the right people to get the job done, versus a general manager that's hardly making any money that we're asking them to run operations and sales. And so we made that move, did it within 30 days. The industry's used to, like, going into a store, paying for turf and picking it up. And you know, 30 days later, they can't do that, Right? And so the contractors, then we're pitching the value of, you don't need to go sit in a will call line. Go take your kids to school, go, you know, check on jobs. We'll deliver the turf for free because we had all the savings from doing it. And that changed the profit of my business immediately. So I did that for like three months. And I'm like, hey, there's something bigger. If this worked for us, why can't it work for other people? So I started going to my competitors that did other things, not just turf. And I'm like, how do you like turf? And they're like, I don't like it. And I'm like, what do you mean? And they just said, well, I have all, you know, there's a lot of costs involved. I have all these scraps. Like, at the end of the day, I'm not really making money. And I said, okay, what if you could get rid of your whole operation and cash yourself out? Because a lot of the money in distribution is in product and equipment. Cash out of it. Let's put my samples in your showroom. I'll deliver directly to your customer with a, a white label truck. And like, and how much going to cost? I'm like, same same price you're paying now. Like, no way. And I'm like, let's try it. They try it, and then it just started taking off. And I'm like, okay, now I have a conflict of interest of all these retail stores because I want to get in distribution. And so that's when I did the deal of, hey, I put it up on social media, set up five stores. $100,000 a piece of, like, this has built my livelihood. I had 100 and, like, 50 people apply to buy stores. So then I got to select who I wanted, who was going to really buy the Most product over 5 years. Who has the best business acumen. And ever since then, it's been insane.
- [23:14]
B
Wow. It's a good turnaround. I mean, I've always thought about vertically integrating. The hard part is, and I know exactly what I need to do is I don't know anything about manufacturing. It's a totally different business. And there's all kinds of accounts receivable and just you're dealing with a different type of person, great people, and it's. It's like you got to be good at logistics. There's so many different things and you're going against some massive. You'd have to buy a really good company that knew. Like, I walk in some distribution centers and I'm like, there's so much waste. Yeah, there's so much waste going on. You could just see it. It's like the people aren't even really work. And then you got, you know, OSHA and all kinds of other things.
- [23:56]
A
It's a lot. If I had to choose again, I wouldn't get into distribution. I have a company that's in home services called Built Right. I'm partners with my brother on it. We've done it for 11 years. I love that business.
- [24:07]
B
Tell me about it.
- [24:08]
A
So, you know, we. I think we're in like nine or ten different states. But if you want artificial grass installed, that's what that company does. They're partnered with Home Depot, they're partnered with Lowe's. So if you go into like a local Home Depot or Lowe's, you want to get artificial grass. It's our company that goes out and does it. The reason why I love that over distribution is, you know, although my. My numbers are big in distribution, you like your cash broke the whole time.
- [24:31]
B
You're not taking much.
- [24:32]
A
Yeah. Small margin. Yeah. Let's say you're making 20 to 30% margin on some deals and you have heavy growth in your business. Well, like what's funding that?
- [24:41]
B
Right.
- [24:41]
A
That net. No, that like gross margins.
- [24:45]
B
Gross. So what's the net of that? It's low single digits.
- [24:48]
A
Yeah.
- [24:49]
B
Yeah.
- [24:49]
A
You're in a low single digits. I mean you could like. I've had years at zero and I've had years at, you know, 10. Right. If you do things the right way. But in the home service business, why I like that and what we have going on with built right is marketing acquisition is like a zero. Right. Because we spend a little bit, but most of our business comes from big box you have. The only really liability have is like employees. Right. And so you could Pair that up and down with whatever the economy and the market's doing. And then from an execution of the jobs like I see outside, you have a ton of equipment, a ton of trucks. Like what we do in that company is we sub all of our work. It ended up becoming cheaper or less expensive than us running crews in the management of that. So we're running hundreds of projects with two project managers. I think they have like I don't know, 14 sales reps and a few other people.
- [25:39]
B
So it's kind of like the roofing industry subs out everything.
- [25:42]
A
That's right.
- [25:42]
B
It's very similar.
- [25:43]
A
Yeah. So the cash out of pocket is not, there's, there's not a lot of liability and not a lot of cash outlay. So the company makes money. Like you get to actually take a distribution as turf. Like the only region going to really get paid when that company sells.
- [25:56]
B
And the two driving marketing is, is the Home Depot Lowe's. That's the majority of the jobs come from. Yeah.
- [26:04]
A
Yeah.
- [26:04]
B
So what's stopping I guess some of these, the people you're hiring from going straight to the source and trying to earn that account from like for Home Depot. So let's say you hire this person doing the fulfillment for you. Have they ever like gone to Home Depot and said I could do a better job of doing all the work anyway?
- [26:23]
A
Yeah, they could try like Home Depot and Lowe's has very strict expectations of the requirements and the metric. So we, that we continue like I feel like every few months get awarded more and more locations just by the service. But yeah, if they could feel free.
- [26:40]
B
How many people are running the back end of that in your team to make sure everything's dialed.
- [26:45]
A
Yeah. So the, the sales people that are running the appointments are also the ones that are going into the store and do the pks and the check ins and making sure like stores are happy.
- [26:53]
B
Yeah.
- [26:54]
A
Going from like running the projects and operations. I mean there's three people when you think about you, I think again nine or ten states, hundreds of jobs and you heard you say something earlier about like systems. Right. It's all about technology and systems these days and leveraging AI. Like you get a lot done.
- [27:11]
B
Oh yeah, a hundred percent. You don't need all the people and the people get done.
- [27:14]
A
The problem is is like I know it's a sour thing for a lot of people. Right. Of like oh like you know the competition's doing it. So you're either going to have to join it and lead it or you're going to get your ass kicked. Because as companies find, find ways to get more efficient, they're going to be able to work at a less margin than you can. You're. You're going to be holding the bag, I believe.
- [27:32]
B
And I've been doing a lot of thought on this. Like, look, I think prices will come down. I think prices have got to come down on everything when technology gets better. This is the law of economics. I remember I went through this MBA program. I sat in the front row and I learned so much about economics. And the deal is, is we're going to get more efficient. More efficient, more efficient. And then someone's going to go, wait a minute, we're making 35% of the bottom. We can make less and take more market share. And then this is going to drive the prices back down. Right. And things are going to get cheaper. Right. Because someone's going to always under a cut. That's just the law of capitalism. Someone's going to come in and say, I could grab market share. I could go to that contractor, I could go to that builder, I could go to this designer. I could get all this work if I could just go a little cheaper. That's not the right way to do it. You want to go off quality and timing and be fast.
- [28:23]
A
But that's how the newcomers, though, that's how people come into a market is they don't have the brand, they don't have the review. So they'll come in at a low price. They. They'll take market share. Yeah. And then they get to a point where they can't service a customer because they don't have the margin to pay for people and the right things. And so then they'll raise their price.
- [28:41]
B
I made a comment the other day on social media. There was a truck in front of me. It had a bumper falling off. It was just white. It was an old truck. And that's how I started, by the way. I'm not upset about it. You know, we all start somewhere, so I'm allowed to talk about it. But I'm like, what does this guy even do?
- [28:58]
A
Yeah.
- [28:59]
B
And somebody said, made a comment of like, we buy from the company all the time. And now B2B is different. I don't care if I'm. If you got cheaper labor and it's B2B, they do great work.
- [29:09]
A
Right.
- [29:10]
B
That's one thing if you're having to go to a site and work all day. But when you're a brand and you want, like, who do I want to come to my house. Number one, I want it to be safer on my family 100%. And number two, how does that person feel driving an old beat up truck that works for me that's breaking down every two weeks?
- [29:27]
A
Right.
- [29:27]
B
Like they feel less valued so they don't show up in a great way. We bought a company in Denver and they're like, do we get new trucks because we're out of work so often and they only, they don't pay us when we're out of work. And so I just, there's these people that want to fight about it, but I've lived on both sides of it and I just don't agree with having cheap, broke down stuff. It just when we got new trucks that got the right wraps, the clients expected to pay more.
- [29:53]
A
Yeah, well, they're also paying like you brought up the brand. It's like what comes behind the brand. Like, you guys have been around for a very long time. You're going to take care of problems when it happens. Like your business is going to be there tomorrow.
- [30:03]
B
Right.
- [30:03]
A
And that, that the, some of the smaller people who don't have a brand, like a lot homeowners don't know what they're risking. Most likely they're not insured or they don't have a contractor's license. They don't do background checks on their people. Right. You don't know who's coming to your house. So. Yeah, when you're doing stuff at your home, you want to spend the appropriate amount of money to have the right company there so you don't have to deal with something going on in the future. I mean it's, it's a person's greatest investment is their home. Like why cheap out on it?
- [30:29]
B
I've never. Well, I would say on my first house I was the, I thought I was like the king of getting deals. And then it came back to bite me in every way. And I think the affluent people that have bought houses understand. And by the way, like I just was looking at golf simulators. Yeah. I didn't give a about the price.
- [30:47]
A
Right.
- [30:47]
B
I just wanted the best one. Like if I'm going to invest in something like that, I want it to work well. I want it to load right. I want to have fun. I don't want to have problems.
- [30:54]
A
That's right.
- [30:55]
B
And it's like if it costs $10,000 more, but it brings me so much more satisfaction. Like I think about a lot of things like that. We went and looked at furniture and I'm talking the most Expensive furniture in the world. And I'm like, but I'm going to replace these concerts every five years. And they're not as comfy.
- [31:09]
A
Yeah.
- [31:09]
B
So that's something where I'm like, I don't know if that's worth the investment. And I look at these things, and I'm like, when I hit the garage door button, I mean, I'm in the industry, but if I was just a normal person, I want it to open and close every single time.
- [31:21]
A
And lock when it's down.
- [31:22]
B
Yeah. And make sure it's safe and make sure that my kids can get it in and out. Like, there's a keypad. Like, I just want that thing to work. If I get an air conditioning unit, I want it to work. I want it to be efficient. I want it to get the same temperature in each room.
- [31:35]
A
That's right.
- [31:36]
B
And like, even my plumber, I was like, can you make the water get hotter quicker when I turn on the shower?
- [31:41]
A
Yeah.
- [31:41]
B
And I'll pay for it. What do I got to do? Because it's an inconvenience. So I'm like, offer me everything. Let me make the decision.
- [31:47]
A
That's right.
- [31:48]
B
Like, don't look at me like I'm rich or poor or old or young. Like, why don't you give me every single thing you have and let me say yes or no.
- [31:56]
A
There you go. So, Tommy, I was just talking to my team about this, like, literally two weeks ago. Because we get undercut all the time, Right. And sometimes they'll. People see these big brands, like, these guys are just making bank. Like, I'm. I'm lucky if I make 10% on the dollars we collect, right?
- [32:12]
B
Yeah.
- [32:12]
A
Like, lucky. It's not a lot of money when you think about what goes on. And so I tell my team, like, can we compete at those prices? Absolutely. But this is what it looks like. We're not going to have the account managers that we have today, which is like, really our sales team. Right. Because our competitors don't have that. We're not going to have the warranties. We're not going to be able to have labor credit. We're going to have to take out some integrity of our product. We're not going to be able to hit every delivery on time. And so, like, all these things add into the price, and then we put, like, our little margin at the end of it and that we believe in service, we believe in value. Because, like, to your point, I have also been on the other side because I used to sell scraps.
- [32:47]
B
Yeah.
- [32:48]
A
Like that's how I got in. And like, I really don't like to deal with those customers anyways. No, you're not making any money and it's just a problem.
- [32:56]
B
And here's one thing I learned is like, we give options. So look, at the end of the day, that sounds like a little bit more than you expected to pay. Let's just pick another option. But you're going to lose some of your warranty. You're going to lose some of the time of it's expected to last. And I compete with any other company because they know what parts they're carrying. So we carry those parts. It's a contractor grade part. Or we could go to the next level. Or we go to the next level. Right. And it's all trademark parts.
- [33:21]
A
Yeah.
- [33:21]
B
So like we differentiated ourselves. You could go buy a t shirt for 10 bucks. You could buy a Nike for 40, you could buy like an Abercrombie for 80. And, and people will pay for the right product. But it comes with a lot. Like every time I bought something nice, I'm like, wow, this is way more comfortable. It fits better. Everything washes out. Like it's just a better quality.
- [33:42]
A
That's right.
- [33:43]
B
And that's what you need to be, is better quality. What's the most underrated mindset that helped you scale multiple companies? Underrated mindset.
- [33:52]
A
Don't quit.
- [33:53]
B
Yeah, don't quit.
- [33:55]
A
Yeah. And I'll, I'll explain that a little bit more. Is everybody in business, if you're in business day or you're going to go start a business, you're going to get, you're going to go get to a point where it's not working and you'll get to a point of like, hey, I don't know if this is for me. I don't, I don't think this business could work. And you're going to, I don't care who you are, you will get pushed to that edge. And that's just like a testing point of what's. If you could not fall off and you could hold on for a little bit longer. It's, you're just supposed to learn something through that and you're going to develop a skill that you wouldn't, you will never get unless you, you see it through. And so that's been really my mindset that's, that's helped me develop to who I am is I just, I will not quit.
- [34:36]
B
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- [35:55]
A
Absolutely.
- [35:56]
B
I'm gonna. I learned a lot. I gotta take my losses and just move on. Versus I'm gonna make massive change. I'm gonna figure this out. I'm gonna go through this. The world's throwing me lemons. Let's make lemons. That's right. And I'll tell you what. It's the hardest thing in the world. It's like you're three feet from gold. You're. You're right there. And the hardest times are like when the biggest change happens and all of.
- [36:18]
A
A sudden you're like Reborn 100 and. Well, here's the thing. What says, so you're gonna go. Let's say you quit. What's telling you the next things to be easier? It's. It's a personality trait that needs to be fixed. Yeah, there. There's always a way. If you look around in your industry, there's other competitors that figured it out. It's just what you're doing is currently not working. You just have to find a change. As you talked about, like, where's the opportunity? What can I change there? There's always a way through.
- [36:44]
B
You know, what's interesting is our buying power. Like, one of the things I do is I'll sit down with a vendor like you, right? And I'll say, listen, how do you win? What is your goals this year? What product mix do you need us to sell? Like, show me how. Is it EBITDA goals? Is there bonus structures? Is it product mix? Like, what's the best thing that you can win at Smart? And if I help you win, how do we win in return? But first I gotta help you. And then I'm going through now, this next month and saying, all right, if I help you win even more, what's the next tier? You could unlock a little bit of savings or unlock some co op dollars for us to market more, or there's a lot of ways. I just called all my vendors and I still got more to go. As if I prepay next year. Can you get me 5%? If these are tried and true vendors that I know I'm staying with? Yeah, we've got the cash. That's an extra 5%. It's, that's, that's going straight to the bottom line.
- [37:38]
A
Absolutely. I used to beat up my vendors and I do the exact same thing you, you're talking about is I'm like, hey, we're a team. We're a partner. We're in this together. Let's sit down and talk strategy. Like, we get into depth. Like, they know my financials, I know their financials, I know they need to make money. And then we, you know, it's all about machinery and efficiency. So, like, we've changed our ordering to massive chunks, like bi, yearly now because they're mach. They could, they can now buy raw materials in bulk. And by doing that, that hits, they save money and we save money. So, you know, partnering with your vendors and getting strategic like that, like, genius move.
- [38:15]
B
What. Let's just go back to, I don't know, call it your early 20s and you got to sit down with yourself for a few minutes.
- [38:22]
A
If I got to go sit with.
- [38:23]
B
Myself, you got, you got an opportunity to go give yourself. It's probably not on the personal side, just more about business. What kind of tips would you give yourself?
- [38:34]
A
A couple things. One, like, I would tell myself it's going to be okay because they're. I, I think I've wasted a lot of time and put a lot of stress on myself of assuming the worst that could happen, but I've never let that happen. So, you know, having confidence and trust, that's more, I guess, on the personal Side. On the business side, it'd be what I said earlier, like, revenue before expense. Every time I got myself in a mistake, it's because we built a plan and the plan's never been tested and put expense before the revenue, and the revenue didn't hit. And I've had to, like, rebuild my company multiple times because of that. So those would be the two pieces.
- [39:10]
B
What do you think some of the larger mistakes? I mean, you've seen probably a lot of businesses come and go. And I think a lot of times, if you read Michael Gerber, E. Myth we start out as a technician, so we know how to do the trade, we know how to do the work, but we don't really know how to balance an income. We don't know how to. We don't even know how to do a budget. We don't know what workers comp and EMOD scored. Insurance. Like, there's so many things like marketing, and I got to hire an hr. What do we need HR department for? Like, my wife could handle that. And all of a sudden, like, we get ourselves into this because we thought the work was easy, but we realize there's all these other factors. So you need software.
- [39:48]
A
Right.
- [39:48]
B
And then you need another financial software. Then you got to have a cpa, then you got to have a tax strategy, Then you got to have a good lawyer.
- [39:54]
A
Yeah.
- [39:54]
B
And all these things. And you're like. And then you find out, and you're like, man, we made a lot of money. And then the CPA calls you, and you're like, wait, how much do I owe? How's that possible?
- [40:04]
A
I think a lot of people, like, their ego gets in the way. Like, that's what stops them from growth, is they start making money. They have it all figured out. They're the best of the best. And they start closing their ears and continue to open up their mouth. And that's not how you build a successful company. Like, I still act like I'm day one. I still act like I'm broke. I have zero humility. Yeah, I want to get better. I tell my team that. I tell my family that I ask my family, I ask my team, I ask my customers of, like, we want to get better. And you. You have the answer because you're able to see us work. Right.
- [40:37]
B
You know, this is the interesting question that I think most people think they're going to get when they ask their. Their clients is they want a cheaper price. I think the reason that most businesses don't ask more questions from their clients is they Think it's all about the money.
- [40:54]
A
Right.
- [40:54]
B
But realistically, it's not. Unless you're just offering on Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace and you're attracting that type of client.
- [41:01]
A
That's right.
- [41:01]
B
Because then that's all it's ever going to be. And there's always going to be a certain percentage of people that just buy on price.
- [41:06]
A
That's right.
- [41:07]
B
Don't market to those people 100%. And so you got to find your audience, you got to find your avatar. And once you know your avatar, you got to exploit it and own that avatar. I got a buddy of mine that did three and a half million dollars of EBITDA in an Asia company and two zip codes.
- [41:25]
A
It's great.
- [41:25]
B
But I mean, he was at every school play, they were at every high school football game, they were at every gymnastics they donated. They were like they owned it.
- [41:34]
A
Right.
- [41:34]
B
And I think sometimes we go, like, we gotta own this market, but we go wide instead of deep. And then we try to be everybody's perfect business.
- [41:41]
A
Yeah, no, you gotta find, like, as you said, like, who. Who's your fit? And I think that's. That's a hard thing for a salesperson to understand too, because they want to close everything that's possible. And same. I had a similar conversation with my group like six weeks ago, and I said, like, we're not going to get every customer, and if we try to get every customer, we're going to piss off our other customers and then we're going to have to start over. Like, this is who we are. This is the value we offer. A lot of people will believe in and buy it, but not everybody will. And that's totally okay.
- [42:10]
B
I mean, I see a lot of waste. If you look at your booking rate, if you're not at 90%, you're missing out. And then you've got your conversion rate. But you also got to look at cancellations. And if you really added it all up, you're losing. If you're at 90%, you're losing 10% of your clients. Then if you're at a cancellation rate of 10%, that means you're at 20% loss of clients. Then if your conversion rate, say 70%, then you lost another 30. So half the clients coming in that funnel are gone.
- [42:39]
A
Right.
- [42:40]
B
So I'm always looking at the funnel going, could we get a little bit better? Do we need to tweak marketing? Do we have a better rehash team that's calling these customers to figure out how to earn their business and Here's a little secret. What if instead of discounting and coming down on price, you added value? So on your turf, you could say, look, the one thing that nobody does that cost you. Like, we do this extra special layer of sand, right? And what this sand's going to do is most people are using the. I don't know what it is, Right. But this is. Usually we're going to add this thousand dollars of value, but it cost you like 50 bucks.
- [43:10]
A
Smart.
- [43:11]
B
Absolutely. And that way you're like, Instead of discounting $300, you're like, I'm bringing value, value, value. And it looks like it's a thousand, and it is a thousand retail.
- [43:19]
A
Right.
- [43:20]
B
It costs you very little.
- [43:21]
A
That's right.
- [43:21]
B
So that way you could earn a lot more clients.
- [43:23]
A
Yeah, absolutely. I love it.
- [43:25]
B
I look, we've got a zero line. You call up and if I could add value and say, listen, you need a bottom rubber. It keeps all the nasty bugs. Out in Arizona, we have scorpions, spiders, mice, all that stuff. It doesn't cost me a whole lot of money for that. Right. If we took care of that bottom rubber for you, let's just say it cost me 20 bucks. We sell it for about seven bucks a foot. So like 125, whatever that is, all of a sudden the client's going, well, I'm getting 150, $200 of value. And they're like, well, let's just go forward with that. If you do that for me, it works most of the time.
- [43:56]
A
Oh, big time. Yeah. They're getting something for free.
- [43:59]
B
What. How would you explain yourself? As a leader.
- [44:06]
A
I'm very direct but charismatic. So when. When people work with me, they know my intention is a lot of love. Like, I love people and I want to see them do good. And I will tell them things that are. Are true because I want to help them. And so, like, if somebody's new working with me, it's kind of a shock because not every leader is transparent. They like to make people feel good. And, like, if I have to have a review with somebody or whatever, I'll go into a conversation like, I love you, and I'm going to tell you the truth because I want to see you, like, succeed in life, whether that's here, whether that's anywhere else. And, like, I don't hold a word back.
- [44:40]
B
That's very hard to do. It's hard to do. I've kind of stayed away from that other than like five people, because in the early days I saw my. Indeed, in My glass door. And I watched people just start not liking me, and it started hurting the brand. So when I hired somebody, I'm like, can you be the bad cop?
- [45:01]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [45:01]
B
Because I got to protect the brand. And quite frankly, I have a hard time being confrontational. You lie, cheater, steal. My vendors, they get the wrath of Tommy, but nobody internally does.
- [45:12]
A
Yeah.
- [45:12]
B
And I. But you're right. You should be able to have a hard conversation to help make people great.
- [45:17]
A
Yeah. Because.
- [45:18]
B
And that's what people. The leaders that have done that with me, I respect the most.
- [45:21]
A
Yeah. Because people know if they're doing good or not, and they know if you're telling the truth. They're not telling the truth. Because if, like, sales leaders do this the best, like, oh, you're good. Like, we're doing great. It's like, bro, they're not doing good. Like, they're not hitting their numbers. They're not feeling good about that. They're not making the commission they want. They're not having the life they want, because all you're telling them is they're doing good. But if you start telling of, like, here's what you do good. Here's why I like you. Here's why I want to have you on the team. But unless you change this and do this, you're going to be in the same spot. Do you want to change your life today? Yes or no? Okay, cool. So here's what we got to go get done. And so I've shifted it to, like, a place of love, and I brought it into. I understand what my people's goals are.
- [46:00]
B
Yeah.
- [46:00]
A
And. And I take that very serious. And my job as a leader is to be able to develop my leaders and my people to get there. And I'm failing at my job unless I do that. If it's just all fluff and you can't get in that real conversation, not going to be able to make headway, you know?
- [46:15]
B
So I say instead, I'm not calling you out. I'm calling you up. Yeah. Because you told me what your goals, your dreams are, and if I could get you there faster, would you agree that that's what you want?
- [46:26]
A
Perfect.
- [46:27]
B
Or is this really what you want? You see, you just.
- [46:29]
A
You.
- [46:29]
B
You. You do it for your family. What do you do for you? Because sometimes I find people are broke and their wife's taking all the money, and they feel just trapped, and I'm like, what do you do for you? What? Why don't you get to the healthiest version? And the person you want to become like, why don't you do anything for you?
- [46:45]
A
Yeah.
- [46:45]
B
I find that a lot of people like, I'm doing this all for my kids. I'm doing this all, you know, And I'm like, that's bullshit. I'm like, what about you? You've heard the oxygen mask comes down. Help yourself first. If you want to help out anybody.
- [46:57]
A
Yeah, absolutely.
- [46:58]
B
And it's so true. And when I get into my orientations with everybody, I'm like, guys, we got to figure out what you need first.
- [47:07]
A
That's good, Tommy.
- [47:09]
B
I love this stuff. I wanna, I wanna share some stuff with you that. I just heard this podcast and it was really good. And I want to hear what you think about these things. So in private equity, they take some of the best companies in the world. And these people had a 5x return on the investment. So if they invested 500 million, they got 2.5 billion back. And they only interviewed the CEOs of these companies and the PE companies. They said there's five components that make every company great. And only five is all they needed. Strategic clarity, what winning looks like. So, like defining what winning looks like. And the whole team knows scalable talent, meaning you have eight players and you have people backing them up. If somebody were to win the lottery and leave tomorrow, relentless focus. Two to three value creation models. Not all over the place saying, I'm going to do this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this. And no one knows discipline, execution, and energized culture. They said, if you could get those five things right, you're going to be on a rocket ship.
- [48:15]
A
A lot of those are, are true. The only thing I would add is like, systems like that, like, it would say if I was going to buy a company tomorrow. Systems are very important because a lot of companies, like, their whole business is stuck, is in. Yeah, in somebody's brain. And if you lose that person or you know, A and B, like, you're in trouble.
- [48:36]
B
Yeah, that's tough. You need key man insurance if that's the case. But that's why I met Ali in 2017. He's like, dude, you are a great firefighter. Know everything. Where's your manuals? Where's your standing operating procedures? Where's your checklists? Like, how do you make sure it's being done the same way every time? What are your checks and balances? And when I learned about that, I was like, oh, my gosh, you get the same output every time. And if you train correctly, things become very easy. And I almost got Sick of the fires going away. I was like, this is getting too easy.
- [49:07]
A
Yeah.
- [49:07]
B
So then I just grow fast. And then all of a sudden a new set of challenges had to systematize it. Bam. It got easy again. And then I see a growth spurt and that's kind of how at least a one garage door service grew is when it got easy. It was growth time. When it gets hard, we slow down and we gotta kind of reinvent ourselves.
- [49:24]
A
Yeah, absolutely. That's how it is. You go up and go down and then go up and go down.
- [49:29]
B
What do you see happening in the next 10 years? I mean, as far as what do you want? What are your goals? Do you want to go start a bunch of other businesses and do what you've done or do you see going deeper into some of these businesses or where are you at?
- [49:42]
A
Yeah. So on the, the personal side, like what's most important to me is like I make the most memories with my family.
- [49:49]
B
Yep.
- [49:49]
A
Like everybody tells me, like, it goes quick. Like I take that very serious.
- [49:53]
B
The days are long, the years are short.
- [49:55]
A
Yeah. Like I, I've, I've given up like my, a lot of my personal interest and make sure my kids and my wife have the best life ever. Then when my kids are 18, like I'm gonna go live for me. Right. And so like I just, I want that. The second thing when you come into like the business side of it is I want to continue to create businesses from the ground up and build successful companies. But all the new stuff I'm building, I'm building them to sell. Like there are five year plans, whatever. Wherever that ebit is in five years, it is what it is. I'll take what I can get onto the next. Instead of like going through. I don't know if you've seen this, your business, you go through the ups and downs. I mean that first five years is usually all up. Like move on.
- [50:36]
B
Yeah.
- [50:36]
A
And not have be emotionally tied. The turf business, I started young and we have a good foothold in the market and that feels good. And so I want to continue to just conquer that business and you know, we'll see. I don't know like if selling. Selling's it, that if time's right, time's right. But I do want to most likely acquire like other companies and, and grow. Like I just want to have the story for really America and like all the young people listening today of like, like I was before I started turf. I was washing dishes at 18 years old. I had no education. I'm Nothing special. I've just had good people, like, around me that I lean on to learn from, you know, and so I want to be able to show, like, the American culture that, like, the American dream is true. You could go in with the right mindset, the right hustle, be broke doing it, and grow from the bottom to the top. Like, I really want to accomplish that goal. My goal has always been to get my net worth to a billion dollars. I'm far from it. That's really what I'm chasing on, like, the financial side.
- [51:36]
B
I. You know, it's funny. I hear that number a lot. I was talking to. Who was I talking to recently? Dropping bombs.
- [51:44]
A
Okay, I know exactly what you're talking about.
- [51:47]
B
Anyway, he's like, this was a while back. This is probably two years ago. He's like, dude, it's chasing that billion. A lot of people are chasing that billion. And I'm like, but so here's my question to everybody that says that. So you get a billion, then what? Where does the money, like, see, I've got a pretty good plan with almost every single thing I do. Like, who. Who the money's going to. What charities? Yeah, the non. And that's all not nonprofit. Like, this going to go to real estate. This is going to go into a PE Fund. This is going to go here. This is going to go. And I got a whole tax strategy around it. It's good to have a pursuit when you really understand exactly where it's going and what's going to happen and whose lives you're changing.
- [52:25]
A
Yeah.
- [52:25]
B
Yeah. All of a sudden, it becomes like, I need to do this.
- [52:28]
A
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Like, my family doesn't need it. I. I believe, for me, I have it. Because it's almost like that. It seems impossible. Yeah, it's just gonna. It's gonna. It's gonna keep me driving, you know.
- [52:39]
B
Keep me young, and that's an important word. Driven. I wouldn't say everybody out there, people listening to this. Yes. But most people don't have the stomach nor the risk tolerance to go into business and continue to go through sometimes a decade of pain, relationship strife. You're married to your business. You're working nights, you're working weekends. You're ready to fail. You're borrowing against your house. If you have a house, sometimes you got to take a loan from people you never want to take a loan from. You hit rock bottom a lot. Days don't go well. People lie, people cheat. You start not believing people, you start maybe not trusting the same. You Used to, you realize the world could be a pretty dark place. And I would say there's probably 5 to 10% of human beings that can handle that kind of torture.
- [53:28]
A
It's tor. It's torture, like, spot on.
- [53:30]
B
And then when it comes, the success starts happening. The other 90% go, well, why do you get all like. Like what? Why, why can't you share?
- [53:39]
A
Yeah.
- [53:40]
B
And. And the fact is, I do believe in sharing, just not through bur bureaucracy. Like the government's getting rich and everybody there. I'm like, I'd rather give it to someone that goes straight to the source.
- [53:53]
A
Yeah, well, and people like. Because I guess that all the time, like, what are you going to like, give it to your kids? And I don't think so. Like, I. I want to. I want to help them get going. But as much as I love. If I love my kids, like, they need to learn life without me. Like, I'm not always going to be.
- [54:10]
B
There, you know, I think and I thought a lot about this. I don't have kids yet, but I want to get them started. I just want to make sure they got the fight or flight that like, hey, listen, you're not going to fall back onto this. But when things start going right, I'm like, you know, let's go to. Let's go to France. I'm picking it up.
- [54:33]
A
Yeah.
- [54:33]
B
I was with Kevin o'. Leary. He's like, I don't give my kids much, but what I do, we go on one trip a month and it's inclusive. It's the Taj Mahal's private jets and they are allowed to bring anybody they want with them. And that's what I do. We buy experiences. And I'm okay paying for that.
- [54:50]
A
And that's been money on.
- [54:51]
B
Yeah, the experience. That's exactly. People like, why are you buying such a big building is such a big house in Idaho? I'm like, dude, me and Bri lived in an apartment for four years. We were fine. I missed that apartment. Things were simple back then, but at the same time, we couldn't have parties. It didn't have enough room. It was 900 square feet.
- [55:06]
A
Yeah.
- [55:07]
B
And I'm like, man, think about the relationships that are going to be built in this place. Fun times.
- [55:12]
A
Oh, absolutely.
- [55:13]
B
That's what, that's what you're buying? That.
- [55:14]
A
That's where we spend all my. All our money is on experience. Where.
- [55:19]
B
Where do you. Where do you like to go for fun?
- [55:21]
A
I like. I'm a big time surfer, so.
- [55:23]
B
Oh, really? So you go to The California.
- [55:25]
A
Yeah, I go to California. Hawaii. Went to Fiji not too long ago.
- [55:30]
B
Is the best I heard.
- [55:31]
A
Oh, it's amazing.
- [55:32]
B
Yeah.
- [55:32]
A
But yeah, that. That's where I like to go for fun. I do Glamis a lot out here in. In California.
- [55:37]
B
So you probably know some of my buddies. Yeah, there's. There's a lot of guys that go out there, so.
- [55:42]
A
Yeah, especially them here in Arizona.
- [55:44]
B
Yeah. So Glamis, there was a place for sale. I think it just sold. Yeah, I'm talking about. Yeah, it's. We looked at it.
- [55:52]
A
Did he go out with Cameron?
- [55:54]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was going to ask you about Cameron. How long have you known Cameron?
- [55:57]
A
Only like two years.
- [55:59]
B
He's a good. He's a good dude.
- [56:00]
A
Yeah, he is a solid guy.
- [56:02]
B
You know, I want to get more into it, but the first day when I on my can am, I flipped it. So now I'm very like, safe. I'm like, drive with two hands. Yeah.
- [56:10]
A
Yeah.
- [56:10]
B
And I didn't get hurt. Be a bri. Were fine, but I'm like, man, these things. And I just bought four snowmobiles for Idaho.
- [56:17]
A
Oh, nice.
- [56:17]
B
And I'm like, they're like, what do you want? And I'm like, I want them to be safe and slow. Right. Because I don't need them to go 120 miles.
- [56:24]
A
Get used to it. Something new, dude.
- [56:26]
B
And I could go fast. And it's a little bit of a rush, but when I see people getting hurt now, I'm like. I mean, I got this boot on from a volleyball accident, but I'm like, I don't have a need for speed anymore.
- [56:37]
A
Yeah, I just. I don't have a need for like, new things. Like, I have my hobbies. And then I'll go try something new with a buddy that's an action sport. And I'm like, I'm not willing to go through that learning curve of pain to get good at this.
- [56:50]
B
Like, do you like snowboarding?
- [56:51]
A
I. Yeah, I like snowboarding.
- [56:53]
B
Do you go fast?
- [56:54]
A
Not. I don't go too crazy. I didn't grow up really snowboarding. So I'm a cruiser.
- [56:57]
B
Yeah, I'm not very good. And I don't want to be like Mach 1. I can't keep up with most people.
- [57:02]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [57:03]
B
So look, I got a few questions as we close out here. And I really appreciated this. I've not had a lot of people in the manufacturing space, but you know, I think it is smaller margins. I'll tell you this though. Covid with manufacturing, they started printing Money. And a lot of them were PE backed as far as garage door A track. And they had started hitting these crazy margins to the bottom, like double digits. Well, in a double digits. And now they don't want to go back. And. But once again, you see. Yeah, you see it's going to. The economy forces you to. Because someone comes in and says, we're going to go back because we're going to get all the clients. And that's why I always have two vendors. I always will have two vendors. Because if they have one, they start, well, we got to give you a price. And then you don't have any choice. What's the favorite books that changed your life?
- [58:00]
A
I'm a big fan of Ed Mylett.
- [58:02]
B
That's funny. I just started work with that.
- [58:04]
A
Oh, no way.
- [58:05]
B
The Power of One.
- [58:06]
A
Yeah. So before that he has a book called Max Out. It's like, it's small, 100 pages, but that was a very impactful book.
- [58:12]
B
What do you like about that book?
- [58:14]
A
He puts life in perspective. Right. And so and, and really teaches you how to like mentally like get through some of this stuff. Like him and, and Andy Frisel are like the two guys that I, I like. Man, you're not. I'm not alone. Like all the stuff going through your thoughts, like some of the stuff you go through, there's nobody to talk to. Ed and Andy do a very good job like walking you through. You're like, okay, this is normal.
- [58:35]
B
You know, I love it. Had it goes.
- [58:37]
A
He.
- [58:37]
B
I'm the one that showed up late and drove to the cancellations and it took the late phone calls and missed the opportunities. And my family doesn't think like they used to think, you know, now they're positive. I, I love that.
- [58:51]
A
Yeah.
- [58:52]
B
And he goes, I'm the one just like you.
- [58:54]
A
Amazing.
- [58:55]
B
That's great. So. So Max out is one of them.
- [58:58]
A
And I, I read Tim Grover's books. Like the Brilliant.
- [59:03]
B
Yeah.
- [59:04]
A
Really good. And that's like, you know, when you think about like no quit and those types of things, it's just like it's all within you.
- [59:09]
B
Yep.
- [59:10]
A
And. And just having to really face those battles and get through it. So that helped me a lot as well.
- [59:15]
B
Those are fantastic books. If somebody wants to reach out to you, what's the best way to do that?
- [59:19]
A
Social media. Yeah. I don't post much on there, but it's at Dylan Georgian. It's Georgia with an N. And do.
- [59:27]
B
You ever see yourself posting more?
- [59:30]
A
I know I pulled way back. I, I like to live A life without an audience. You know, I had to use my social media to build my brand and build my companies. But I like to be low key and private, and I don't want to be famous or well known. I just, I'd rather be kind of like the sleeper, you know?
- [59:49]
B
Well, that's how most wealthy people that really, really make it are. But I will say I kind of enjoy making content, something about it. Like, you know, the school of hard knocks, the kid that runs around and comes to the cars, how much money do you make and all that. Like, I'll tell you this, though, it's scary because Jim Carrey, I always bring this up. Jim Carrey said, I wish everybody was really rich and really famous so they'd understand that's not the answer. And like, it's vanity metrics, how many views, how many shares, all that crap. But, man, it's fun too. It's like you walk up and interview somebody all of a sudden. Like, I walked around a trade show with a microphone and all of a sudden every, Everybody's like, oh, I want. They're like, what's going on? And they wanted to be on there.
- [60:30]
A
So, I mean, having a personal brand, nobody could buy that from you, right? And so you get to leverage your companies and all this stuff and you have a personal brand, like, that's worth. You could do anything you want. It becomes super powerful. You, you are giving up and sacrificing a lot to do that, especially when you have kids. I've had people, you know, the wrong people show up at my house. I've had a move, not to scare you from it, but I'm just like, man, I don't, I don't really need this, you know.
- [60:57]
B
Ooh, that's interesting.
- [60:58]
A
Yeah. So I've taken a big back seat on. Oh, wow.
- [61:02]
B
Never thought of it that way. I got a new perspective and actually, I appreciate that.
- [61:06]
A
Yeah, absolutely.
- [61:07]
B
So last thing we'll do here is we talked about a lot of stuff. I'm sure there's something we didn't hit that you want the audience to know about. So I'll let you close this out, Dylan.
- [61:17]
A
Yeah, if I, if I had to close it out, in short, like, really just understanding, like, the purpose that you have in life and what, what you're here to do, right. And, and, and think big picture. And then everything you do, all your actions tie into that. And I believe that, you know, like, if, if we're given a good gift and given opportunity, it's our job to not, you know, only make that opportunity happen into a result. But then go ahead and help other people. Go ahead and do that. Like we all didn't get to where we are. And you don't have to have a big business. It could be your job, it could be your health, it could be your family. Like that didn't just show up for us. Like there's been people in our life to help us to get there. And what I like to see for society is like just everybody, you know, everybody has something special in them and you know, share that gift with other people and help other people and that's how we make the world better.
- [62:06]
B
I love it and I agree with you wholeheartedly. I appreciate you coming on today.
- [62:10]
A
Yeah, thank you, Tommy. I appreciate it.
- [62:11]
B
All right, listen, if you enjoy this podcast, like it, share it and leave a review. It really helps me out. I appreciate everybody out there and have a great holiday. And this probably came out after the holiday, but that's okay. Thanks guys. Hey there. Thanks for tuning into the podcast today. Before I let you go, I want to let everybody know that Elevate is out and ready to buy. I can share with you how I attracted a winning team of over 700 employees in over 20 states. The insights in this book are powerful and can be applied to any business or organization. It's a real game changer for anyone looking to build and develop a high performing team like over here at A1 garage door service. So if you want to learn the secrets that help me transfer my team from stealing the toilet paper to a group of 700 plus employees rowing in the same direction, head over to elevateandwin.com podcast and grab a copy of the book. Thanks again for listening and we'll catch up with you next time on the podcast.