The #1 Reason Home Service Companies Get Stuck Between $1M and $10M

Summary

The Home Service Expert Podcast

Episode: The #1 Reason Home Service Companies Get Stuck Between $1M and $10M

Host: Tommy Mello
Guest: Yaren Gaon
Date: May 11, 2026

---

Episode Overview

This episode of The Home Service Expert Podcast features guest Yaren Gaon, a seasoned entrepreneur and growth strategist. Together, Tommy and Yaren explore the fundamental reasons why home service companies often plateau at $1M–$10M in revenue. The conversation dives deep into the pitfalls of unfocused growth, over-diversification, system overbuild, and how optimizing for profit (not just revenue) is the true key to scaling. The episode is packed with actionable strategies, memorable analogies, and honest reflection on entrepreneurial mistakes and breakthroughs.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Hustle vs. Focus & The Path of Least Resistance

• Hustle Has Limits: As Yaren says, "You can be successful, you can grind and you can hustle. But at some point it's going to break. The question is not how do I grind harder. The question is what is the path of least resistance?" (00:00)
• Intentional Evolution: Business owners must create new versions of their business; “Version one of your business doesn't need to be the version you actually scale. Your business now is very different than the business you started with.” (00:34)
• Focus Over Diversification: Constant addition (new services, new markets) without subtraction (cutting distractions) leads to chaos and stagnation.

Early Entrepreneurship, Learning from Experience

• Yaren’s Story: Started a payment platform at 14 and ran Israel’s largest military gear ecommerce store—eventually selling to focus on new ventures and relocating to the U.S. (01:34–05:23)
• Valuable lesson: Over-customizing systems can hurt your exit value. "As I sold it, I was the only one that could operate those and maintain those... these custom software became debt, not assets." (14:41)

Vision, Mission, and KPI Alignment

• Defining Vision: Yaren pushes back on ambiguous mission statements: “Vision is an aggregate of multiple different things. One is defining a success metric that I would love not to be revenue based... A lot of companies set vision. I want to be a $10 million company. That’s great. But that’s not a filter mechanism.” (06:46)
• Better Success Metrics: Focus on impact, non-revenue metrics, and the specific problem you want to solve—this becomes the company’s North Star. (42:05–43:13)

The Danger of Distraction & Over-Diversification

• Both Tommy and Yaren warn against spreading yourself too thin:
  • “You’re a jack of all trades, a master of none. Correct.” (16:38)
  • True vertical integration is only worthwhile when you’re able to hire experts or acquire ready-built teams and proven systems. (19:08)
  • Don’t diversify before you’ve saturated your main market or core service. (25:13)

Profitability Before Growth

• Growth by Addition vs. Subtraction: “As you start growing a company, you use a growth model called growth by addition... But what happens is... companies try to keep going by addition, [and] they keep saying yes... You want to identify the 20% that moves 80% of profit.” (21:47–23:24)
• Not All Revenue Is Good: “It’s really easy to focus on revenue because Revenue looks great, sales cures all, right? But not all sales are created equal.” (23:25)
• Sometimes You Must Say No: “Sometimes it’s saying no to revenue to protect your EBITDA. Better decisions executed by top a class individuals equals profit.” (00:27, 26:48, 76:58)
• Buy Based on EBITDA: "I only buy off of EBITDA. People don't understand that. I buy the business, I pay them on the EBITDA. But I know where their profit is because we do deep analysis. We just cut everything." (27:01–27:25)

Data & Decision-Making

• Segment Your Business: Analyze by product, customer type, and channel. Know which business units are truly profitable. (28:30–30:08)
• Profit Leak Audit: Yaren created a calculator for business owners to find their most profitable levers. (55:01–55:25)
• Actionable Canvas: “I built a canvas... that basically says all of your decisions for your business... what is the exact most profitable version of my business that I can create?” (46:06)
• Get the framework and DIY canvas at Playbook Fractional Partners (48:17)

Optimize, Then Grow—Repeat

• “You almost got to grow, optimize, grow again, optimize again. It’s not just you optimize, grow, grow, grow, grow, grow. It’s grow, optimize, grow again, optimize again. You got to have these layers.” (64:07)
• Owners must intentionally pause and analyze before scaling, rather than chasing every new opportunity.

Memorable Quotes & Actionable Advice

• Yaren: “Business is a game of the mind. Unless you want to be a technician. If you’re playing an owner game, it’s about making decisions.” (40:04)
• Tommy: “Revenues for vanity, profits for sanity.” (35:27)
• On CEO skillsets: “Most CEOs, the best ones, they could see around the corners and see the future. They know how to produce profitability, but they’re really good at producing teams that are accountable.” (37:49)
• On systems: “A lot of people don’t know what to subtract. They don’t want to say no to revenue because they’re not confident that saying no to revenue is actually going to increase their profit. But if I walk them through a system...they can start making cut decisions with confidence.” (49:20–51:39)
• On the entrepreneurial mindset: “Your ego is not your amigo when it comes to business.” (34:40)

---

Notable Moments & Timestamps

• Hustle vs. Vision & Leverage [00:00 – 06:31]
• Yaren’s entrepreneurial origins, Israeli military, and lessons learned [01:34 – 05:19]
• Crafting focused vision, avoiding revenue-only goals [06:31 – 08:56]
• On vertical integration, focus, and market domination [10:26 – 11:45]
• Mistakes from overbuilding systems and custom tech [14:41 – 16:38]
• When/why to diversify—and when not to [18:38 – 21:07]
• The 1–10M plateau: systemic causes and solutions [23:24 – 26:48]
• The importance of rigorous financials & knowing your true profit centers [27:01 – 30:49]
• Advice for business owners: Build to optimize, not just to grow [31:49 – 34:40]
• How to use and implement the one-page business canvas [46:06 – 48:17]
• Accountability at the top: role of CEO & decision frameworks [37:49 – 40:27]
• Retention, delight, and maximizing LTV [62:25 – 63:01]
• Tradeoffs of franchising vs central expansion [65:46 – 67:13]
• Summary frameworks: “Ask better questions, make more money.” [73:05]

---

Action Steps & Resources

Yaren Gaon’s “Canvas” for Growth

• Download Free Canvas & Tools: Playbook Fractional Partners
• “The mere act of choosing and putting it on paper is where a lot of value is created without changing execution.” (47:49)

Books Mentioned

• The Road Less Stupid by Keith Cunningham
  “Ask better questions, make more money.” (72:59)

---

Conclusion & Takeaways

• Run your business for profit, not just growth or top-line revenue.
• Be intentional: PAUSE and decide where to focus—before scaling further.
• Optimize for what works; cut what doesn’t.
• Build a business model and success metric that guides every major decision.
• Regularly revisit your direction and stay disciplined about what you say yes and no to.
• “Pause before you make any big decision. Pause what you’ve built. Version one of your business doesn’t need to be the version you actually scale.” (76:29)

---

Connect with Yaren Gaon

• Website for Free Playbook & Contact: Playbook Fractional Partners
• DIY and facilitated workshops available

---

End of Summary
—
This summary provides clear structure, actionable insights, and retains the candid, straight-talking tone of the episode. Whether you’re scaling or stuck, the hard-won lessons here will help you get unstuck—and ready for next-level growth.

Transcript

[Yaren Gaon]

You can be successful, you can grind and you can hustle. But at some point it's going to break. The question is not how do I grind harder. The question is what is the path of least resistance? You want to find. What exactly is the lever that I want to pull? What do I want to double down on? Sometimes it's saying no to revenue to protect your ebitda. Better decisions executed by top a class individuals equals profit. Before you make any big decision, pause what you've built. Version one of your business doesn't need to be the version you actually scale. Your business now is very different than the business you started with.

[Tommy]

Oh, way different.

[Yaren Gaon]

You have to be intentional about creating these versions.

[Tommy]

All right, guys, welcome back to the Home Service Expert. Today I got Yaren Gaon with us. I pronounced that right.

[Yaren Gaon]

Perfect.

[Tommy]

It's Israelian.

[Yaren Gaon]

Correct.

[Tommy]

It's awesome. Love me some Israelian people. I'm telling you this, the people that I know are, are always hustling from Israel. They're just good people. Hustle is not a plan.

[Yaren Gaon]

We'll talk about that.

[Tommy]

So you're an expert in scaling companies, growth, advisory, operations, positioning, leverage, profit design, eos. It's funny, I just, I know. Gino Wickman, Mark Winters was just on the podcast. You're based in Salt Lake.

[Yaren Gaon]

Correct.

[Tommy]

And you just moved from Austin. Forex founder started his first business at 14. SMS payments. Awesome. Built and sold Israel's largest military e commerce platform. Well, let's rock, dude. Tell me a little bit about, tell me a little bit about getting started at 14. You, your SMS payment platform and just how you got started.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yeah, how did I get started? I loved building stuff. I love building stuff. So I love building systems at 14. If I take you, that was like early 2000 and text messaging micropayment was just beginning. So you could buy a wallpaper by texting a number and pay for a wallpaper for your phone or a ringtone. There was a whole community or list of services you can do and you can have with text messages. And I thought that was a really cool thing. But being 14, I couldn't really monetize. I couldn't really do this. Meaning that I had a website. I wanted to start monetizing my website, but I couldn't do this. So I ended up building a platform for small business owners for small companies that basically allows them to implement like a code inside of their website and start monetizing their own content. That's what I did.

[Tommy]

Wow.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yeah.

[Tommy]

And how did that work?

[Yaren Gaon]

Worked perfectly. So I grew this and then two years later, people came to me and said, we want to charge you more than the highest ticket price. So in text messaging back in 2000, you can charge up to I think $4 or $5. People wanted to charge more. So I partnered with the second largest credit card company in Israel and we built a payment processing with credit cards. So same idea. Instead of sms, it became credit cards. And then I ran it for two years and I joined the military at 18. There's a mandatory military service in Israel and I had to close my businesses and I drafted. I ended up being a combat sergeant.

[Tommy]

Wow.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yeah. Did that for about three years. Learned a lot, experience a lot.

[Tommy]

What were you making at age 14, 15, 16 years old before you got into the military?

[Yaren Gaon]

Tens of thousands of dollars.

[Tommy]

Yeah.

[Yaren Gaon]

Not crazy amount of money, but it

[Tommy]

a lot for a kid.

[Yaren Gaon]

Correct?

[Tommy]

Yeah.

[Yaren Gaon]

I was very lucky. I had parents that enabled me to do that. Like my dad gave me a checkbook under his name and I transact because I was too young. I couldn't even open a Bank account at 14. My parents enabled me and that's what I was able to really play and experiment at such a young age.

[Tommy]

That's great. Entrepreneurial family.

[Yaren Gaon]

My dad was an entrepreneur. Correct.

[Tommy]

Oh, that's great. And then you serve the. The idf combat sergeant commanding platoons. You know, is there anything you really took from the military that sticks with you today?

[Yaren Gaon]

So many things stick with me today. You can do hard things. It sounds so cliche, but it really like it just puts you in an uncomfortable situations. I was a plush kid from a plush life and I got thrown into this mix that was very different than the way I grew up. Different people, different environments. You just adapt and you just rise up or crush and you just rise up. They teach you a lot. And you put you in positions where. I don't know any other 19 year old in America that like at 19 I come in and 40 soldiers. In what world would a 19 year old have that experience? Yeah, every, anywhere. Like.

[Tommy]

No, it's crazy. I mean you had to grow up fast.

[Yaren Gaon]

Correct. So it ages you.

[Tommy]

Material, you handle pressure. You know, the pressure situations. After the military, you notice Israeli soldiers weren't getting enough gear, so you built a. When you want to go through this,

[Yaren Gaon]

why are you laughing, Tommy?

[Tommy]

I just, I just think it's crazy. You're. You're a hustler.

[Yaren Gaon]

I am a hustler, but I want. I'm a focus hustler.

[Tommy]

Now you're focused.

[Yaren Gaon]

Now I'm focused. I was Always focused. But I am. I'm a builder.

[Tommy]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Yaren Gaon]

I want to do. So let's talk about hustle. Like, hustle is. Is amazing. I want to be a hustler for a very. I'm trying to find the path of least resistance in everything I do.

[Tommy]

Right.

[Yaren Gaon]

So it's not just about hustling and driving, repetition and just hammering stuff. It's really about fine tuning what works and then finding the path of least resistance to get to where you want to be.

[Tommy]

Yeah. Simplify it.

[Yaren Gaon]

Correct.

[Tommy]

Yeah. I think that's the problem. I think that's why Elon Musk does so well.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yeah.

[Tommy]

Because he eliminates automates or delegates almost everything. And he's great at recruiting and building a team.

[Yaren Gaon]

Correct.

[Tommy]

People think Elon runs all these great businesses, but he. He's probably the best recruiter on the planet.

[Yaren Gaon]

Identifying the individuals, Right.

[Tommy]

Who, not how.

[Yaren Gaon]

It's not just the individual. It's also like identify the individuals and then giving them a very cohesive, focused vision to execute upon. Right. Because otherwise they'll work in whatever direction they want to. But it's about crafting this super tight, realistic vision and then having them. Okay, so what is the path of least resistance to get to where I want to be?

[Tommy]

So tight vision is in what to focus on or is it a tight vision as far as revenue and profitability? Is it just certain tasks? You know, do you have your top three or top five or what do you. What does a top vision mean to you? Or a type vision?

[Yaren Gaon]

So vision is this really ambiguous term that people use. Eosus, a lot of people use. So here's what vision means to me. So vision is a. It's an aggregate of multiple different things. One is defining a success metric that I would love not to be revenue based. What exactly you're trying to achieve here and what is the metric that measures that besides revenue? A lot of companies set vision. I want to be a $10 million company. That's great. It's amazing. But that's not a filter mechanism. Meaning that you want to be a $10 million company is not going to help you make decisions along the way as you face a fork in the road. And okay, is this opportunity right for me? Saying I want to be X revenue is not going to help you do this. But if you have a success metric that ties to your problem solution thesis or in different ways, your mission statement. I am here because I want to affect this change in people, in the world, in whatever I do. This is why I started this company. Right. People start companies because they have some sort of beside just making money. They have some sort of mission or a reason behind why they're trying to do what they're trying to do. If you're able to articulate what end looks like and what is the metric that measures this and then give it to a players, then they'll execute in the right direction.

[Tommy]

That makes sense. Yeah. I think most people go into business primarily for money and freedom and that they don't like their boss.

[Yaren Gaon]

That's true.

[Tommy]

Also, I think a lot of people are like, why would I be going through all this shit? Because when I could do it for myself and make all the profit, then they get their ass handed to them.

[Yaren Gaon]

Correct.

[Tommy]

I mean, nine out of ten businesses fail.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yeah.

[Tommy]

And that's why I'm not a big fan of tax the rich. Like, tax them. Tax them probably more than regular people. But don't tax them so much to stop them from wanting to do the business because it's already hard enough to be successful.

[Yaren Gaon]

So, Tommy, let me ask you a question. What is your success metric as you build this venture and you have all these different areas and side businesses? What is the metric that defines success for you?

[Tommy]

But right now, more legacy. We're on uncharted territories. But I'll tell you this. I get about three or four messages a week of people buying their first house, changing their family tree, spending more time with family. So I get a lot out of watching people win. Because right now, I don't know what else I'd be doing other than a one. I mean, that's my primary thing. I don't really spend any time with anything else. Like, this is my racehorses. They wear blinders for a reason. I'm not like Elon Musk. I don't want 10 different companies. I think most people that do want that many, they all fail.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yeah. Going back to focus.

[Tommy]

They lack the focus. And it's fun watching people's lives change. I will say that. And for a one, it's just. It's like I want to be a. You know, personally, I look at this business and I say it's almost impossible to create a be the only company. But I do. I look at it like, how do we shut down all. Like, I enjoy the competition, by the way. I love great competition. I mean, it makes me better. But I'm like, how do we create a monopoly? What would we need to do to make it impossible to compete? I mean, we were on the phone with Lowe's. We're flying out to go see Home Depot. We're working with Costco. Angie wants to give us other leads. Like how do we just say that we're the only viable company to do garage doors and very hard to do when there's 500 companies just here in Phoenix.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yeah. How do I become the obvious choice?

[Tommy]

Well, if you were able to take it from raw materials and vertically integrate, that's one way to do it. So vertical integration is the first thing. And I do think we're headed in a time with technology that I think if you win by six months, you know, we're talking about robotics and other things in the future. But if we could be the largest in North America and be vertically integrated, we could win on everything. Speed. We could win on price. I don't like to win on price personally.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yeah, it's not a great win.

[Tommy]

No. I like to win on net promoter score. I like to win on time and I like to win value and show up and people feel good about the experience. I always talk about how I go to the nicest steakhouse, is a thousand bucks per couple. But I go back there every two weeks.

[Yaren Gaon]

Because you get value.

[Tommy]

I love it.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yeah.

[Tommy]

I mean, they treat us like gold. The manager stops by, they call us the next day to see how it wins. Any special occasions? It's a free dessert. And you know, your martini could be halfway full. They'll come back, shake it up, make sure it's cold. The plates come out at a 400 degree plate. It's an experience. Yeah. And I think that's how most buying should be. Early in my life. I used to buy the cheapest. Now I buy the best quality because I'm an experienced shopper now. Yeah. I mean, the people that say they don't like quality are the same people wearing $300 Nikes. Isn't that funny?

[Yaren Gaon]

Yeah.

[Tommy]

They say, why would anybody pay that for that? I'm like, well, how much did your shirt cost? You're wearing a $220t shirt.

[Yaren Gaon]

Just they place value in different things.

[Tommy]

They don't place value on homes because they don't even own a home. A lot of them still live at their parents house or they rent an apartment. And then too many people sell out of their own pocket. They wouldn't spend the money on that. But I go, but you're also not going to go to a nice restaurant. You also don't drive a nice car. Different priorities. Most of them lease a nice car.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yes.

[Tommy]

So tell me about this military thing. I'm interested. So how did you create a business out of that?

[Yaren Gaon]

So just for context, in Israel there's a three year mandatory service for males and the government doesn't equip with enough equipment. So think of it, everybody has to join the military, but it's underfunded and as you draft you're just, you're missing gear like basic gear like shirts and socks and watch and a letterman and a flashlight. So there's a whole secondary market of army gear that people buy before they enlist and during their military service as they want to upgrade their weapon or upgrade their vest or really have some status symbols as they serve. And what happens is as a combat soldier you really get to go home every two to three weeks for about 48 hours. So it's a very short amount of time. And the challenge is that Israel observes the Shabbos, meaning that during Saturday everything is closed. So you really have a very short amount of time on Friday morning to get everything you need and then you go back to the base Sunday morning. And I thought to myself okay, as I was one of these soldiers that buying equipment, why isn't there an e commerce website that I can just ship it to base? Or why there wasn't any store in Israel that's hyper specialized in military equipment. It was, everything was hiking gear with a military section. And I was like let's talk about hyperspeciality, right? Why hyperspeciality is a differentiation. Why isn't there a single one stop shop for everything that I need hyper target for a specific Persona or specific type of customer, in this case an 18 year old to the 21 year old soldier that they can just buy as they're in the base and as it's shipped either to their home or to the base or they come pick it up. So I built this, I started from my apartment, started selling it from my, it was online, that doesn't really matter where it was. And I grew it and I grew it and we opened a brick and mortar location and I ran it for seven years and then we sold it. I sold it to my largest competitor and I moved to the States. There was the catalyzer of selling it.

[Tommy]

Yeah. Did you do good?

[Yaren Gaon]

I did good. I didn't do great. I made a lot of mistakes as I was building my business and it cost me when I exited, it cost me multiple and it cost me in exit price, exit volume. I made a lot of mistakes.

[Tommy]

What were some of those mistakes?

[Yaren Gaon]

One mistake that I made is I overbuilt systems. So I'm A system guy. I love building systems. So I built the website and I built the CRM and I built the ERP and I built the POS register that someone comes to the store. What happens is, as I came to sell it, these custom software became debt, not assets. So as I sold it, I was the only one that could operate those and maintain those. So when someone buys it, it's. They have to replace. This hurt me when I, when, when I came to sell because I was the only one. So I built. Now this is super relevant for the AI, right? Everybody's building systems, everybody's building their own thing. But two things happen when you do this. One, if you step aside of your core competency. Right. If you have a core competency, you're not a dev shop. Right. You have your garage door or roofer. You're not here to sell systems and you're not here to maintain those systems if you want to exit. Right. So I would rather pay more off on an off the shelf solution than end up building it outside of my core.

[Tommy]

Yeah. I made that mistake.

[Yaren Gaon]

Tell me.

[Tommy]

Well, I started a vehicle wrap shop because no one could keep up with our wraps. I also had two full time mechanics because I was buying older trucks. And you get distracted and you're like. And then I prioritized recycling metal. So I had two guys that did all the recycling and I'm like, I don't make any money on this stuff. Why not just go out and find the right wrap company, find the right company to stage all the stuff. Find the right. The recycling metal was a waste of time. I mean, one of my competitors back in 2015 told me, I pay for my rent for my building with recyclables. And I'm like. So I started to prioritize all these other things, except being the best garage door company on the planet. And these are all distractions. And a lot of people go, what if we own this side of it? What if we own this? What if we control all this? Then you realize you're not good at anything. You're a jack of all trades, a master of none. Correct.

[Yaren Gaon]

We talked about vertile integration in the beginning of it. Right.

[Tommy]

What happens is when you overflow the bucket.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yep.

[Tommy]

Because you got one bucket. So I always say, like I used to always say, I put my eggs in a lot of baskets. When you could overflow the basket, it could overflow into vertical integration.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yes.

[Tommy]

But you got to hire the best. But I think with this world of AI, it's going to be much easier for these OEMs to go straight to the consumer. I think that's where we're headed. I mean, SRS is a big roofing. They handle a lot of roofing supplies. They sold the Home depot. They're doing 1.4 billion of EBITDA.

[Yaren Gaon]

Wow.

[Tommy]

So I think some of these larger players are going to start getting in the game because home service is blowing up. So is home improvement.

[Yaren Gaon]

Correct?

[Tommy]

I mean it's, it's AI proof in a lot of ways.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yes.

[Tommy]

So, yeah, Focus is like most companies I talk to, can't get past 5 million.

[Yaren Gaon]

So let me ask you a question, Tommy. So two things. One, you identified that this a distraction. Yeah. What was that moment? What caused you to step out of execution and zoom out for a moment and say, okay, this is my business. This is what making me money. This is what I'm making. I'm going to cut what was a

[Tommy]

lot of good mentors. And when I went to see all the $100 million shops in 2018.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yep.

[Tommy]

I realized they didn't have any distractions. They just paid the top people. I learned what accelerated depreciation was. Why buy new trucks? Why the mentality of the technician was better. What customers, when you see a brand new truck wrapped perfectly, show up. It doesn't say I'm cheap, it says I'm a good value, but I'm going to do the job right. But you know the guy smoking out of the back of the truck, it's all rusted out.

[Yaren Gaon]

Execution.

[Tommy]

Yeah. So. So I just hired the best. And Dan Martell, buy back your time. He said, once I started buying how I want to be bought from, everything changed.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yeah.

[Tommy]

And I think that's true is like all of a sudden the top clients came to me and they said, we don't care what it costs, just do it the right way.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yeah. You were able to attract the top clients.

[Tommy]

And I've learned through just watching other people. I mean, I went out and visited. I spent a lot of times visiting other shops.

[Yaren Gaon]

Let me ask you another question. You talked about diversification. What point do you diversify? At what point? Because every diversification dilutes your focus by design. So at one point we're going to get to this because it's my passion. I think that people over diversify too early.

[Tommy]

Way too early. I mean, we're going to do north of 100 million of EBITDA and I'm not ready to diversify. But if I did, I would buy out a really, really strong call it just a parts Manufacturer.

[Yaren Gaon]

Okay.

[Tommy]

So they got this nailed. Their specialists, that's all they do. They've got a written track record and they're going to stay on board for that.

[Yaren Gaon]

So within your value chain.

[Tommy]

Yeah. So I wouldn't say I'm going to go master Lean manufacturing at Six Sigma. You know, first in, first out, all that stuff. I'd say once you get big enough, you could buy channels and you're buying the people and the know how. But I. I think like H vac, plumbing, electrical makes a lot of sense because H Vacs got a small window. Four months.

[Yaren Gaon]

Okay.

[Tommy]

Then you need the shoulder season where the electric. And you're sharing those leads. But I mean, even Neighborly, one of the largest franchises in home service, they're only sharing 3% of the leads across franchises. So everyone wants to go into all these things. But Parker and Son's a good buddy of mine. I talked to Paul yesterday. They do about 300 million just in Phoenix, and they do a lot of services. They only spend 3% on marketing because they own the client. Yeah, I don't like that as much because you got to train a lot of different people on a lot of different things, a lot of different suppliers. You don't get the economies of scale. There's a lot of reasons why it doesn't make sense to me. I'd rather own the industry than the client and just own the client for what we do.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yeah.

[Tommy]

I say no one can compete like Anderson Renewal.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yes. The thing is, so we talked about a lot of companies don't really make it past the $5 million stage before I tell you what I think. What do you. Why do you think that happens?

[Tommy]

I think it's a lack of systems and a lack. I think most home service companies, they don't have a good finance person in their team. FP&A. Their pay structures are wrong. They don't pay enough. They don't train enough on how to take care of clients. But the biggest thing is they don't have the math model to understand the right pricing to where they could have nice things like new trucks, the best parts, the best training, the best tools, the best marketing, and still be able to make a profit afterwards. When you get on these forums on social media, they all say, oh, look at that company taking advantage of old people. No, no, they don't. If I ask you, who's the most expensive in your market in Utah?

[Yaren Gaon]

I don't know. You tell me.

[Tommy]

It's any hour.

[Yaren Gaon]

Okay.

[Tommy]

And who do you think's the most expensive?

[Yaren Gaon]

I don't know.

[Tommy]

Same company every time. Okay, same roofing company, same H Vac company, same anybody. Why is it the most expensive? Because to run calls and run warranty calls the same day. To get out there when you need me the most, to have reliable trucks, reliable staff that don't turn over very quickly. There's a price to have a csr, a dispatcher, the right CRM. Most of these companies are working out of their homes. Their wife's working for free. Their daughter's a CSR making $12 an hour. They didn't plan on making a profit. They planned on making a living. That's the biggest difference. Now you tell me what you think.

[Yaren Gaon]

So let me tell you how I see the world. I see companies grow with a wrong growth model. And I'll explain what I mean by that. As you start growing a company, you use a growth model called growth by addition. The idea here, as you grow 0 to 1, 0 to 2, it's all about adding more. Same. Yes, more. More channels, more type of customer, more products, more geography. It's all about just saying yes. And that works really well as you start finding your, what we call the product market fit. Or you try to find really traction, early traction. But what happens is, as they find traction, companies try to keep going by addition, they keep saying yes, more type of services, more type of clients. Oh, I can do residential, of course. I can do commercial, I can do all of it. I can do plumbing, I can do H Vac, I can do electrical. Yes, Just one lead, no problem. I can service it. And what happens is as they grow, they feel friction with growth by addition. Stuff start to break. And the first inclination when stuff starts to break is to systemize. And that's where I'm going to start. I'm going to push a little bit. The first explanation is to systemize. Right. I feel this, all this tension, all this chaos. We're not really providing a great service. Let's systemize. Let's put some systems in place. They put, they install EOS or entrepreneur operating system or they put some SOP is our processes. Great. But what happens is that there needs to be a shift from what. What worked at the beginning doesn't work later. So from moving from growth by addition into growth by subtraction and growth by subtraction means. Okay, let's identify the 20% that moves 80% of profit.

[Tommy]

20, yeah.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yes, but profit, not revenue. And it goes ties back to your comment around financial models. It's really easy to focus on revenue because Revenue looks great, sales cures, all right. But not all sales are created equal. Right. There's costs associated with each sales. And inside of your business, there are really like five different businesses with different margin profiles and different sub businesses. So identifying where is the profit, the EBITDA truly coming from, that's a good.

[Tommy]

I'm glad you went there.

[Yaren Gaon]

And then you take that business and say, okay, I built a business. It's a $2 million, $3 million. Something is working. But I don't want to scale the whole business. Let's find what's the engine here, really, which one is the perfect customer for my business?

[Tommy]

Yeah, what lead source?

[Yaren Gaon]

Correct.

[Tommy]

Is it Angie? Is it home warranties? Is it this? Is it this? And a lot of people do all of it. They take on commercial, they take on new construction, but they don't really know. I say, what's the profit margin per business unit? They have no idea.

[Yaren Gaon]

No.

[Tommy]

They don't have a good cfo, they don't have a good FP and a team. They don't have a good controller.

[Yaren Gaon]

Not just that, but also execution suffers. So as you serve different type of customers and different type of products, you become mediocre by design at all of them. Think of a $2 million company, small team, still like semi home. It's very small. Not a lot of capital, not a lot of money. You cannot do multiple things well. It just doesn't work. So the whole game is, where's my core? What can I double down on? And then you take that and you build a business around that core until you get to a point where you're big enough to diversify, where you're big enough to say, okay, I'm ready to add another service line, or I'm ready to add another territory. People just grow, too, and it hurts them. And they feel like, oh, this is an execution problem. When it's really a decision problem that was made, never made.

[Tommy]

I think a lot of people, they ask me, when should I grow to another market? We're thinking about growing, and I'm like, do you have the substantial market share in your current market?

[Yaren Gaon]

Correct.

[Tommy]

You go to church, your kids go to school, you've got all your family and friends there. And if you don't own that market, why would you want to scale? It's so much easier to do it in your current market. And they go, well, you know, we just want to grow. And you're right. They always say, yes. I was on the phone with Alex Hermosi for an hour this morning. Yeah, and he was telling me a lot of the stuff he's doing. And I'm like, man. He goes, when are you going to expand into other services? I go, not anytime soon.

[Yaren Gaon]

I want to be a master of my craft.

[Tommy]

I go, look, we own less than 2% of market share. We can get to 10 pretty easily without changing a thing.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yes, but that is the key. That is my. In my opinion, you want to be. So in order for you to grow. Let's talk about growth for a moment. Because there's growth of Top line and there's growth of ebitda, and they're not the same. It's really easy. I talk about this because it's elementary, but it doesn't happen. So it's worth mentioning, this growing top line is great, meaning that I get more sales, but it's an illusion because you have to service those sales. And not just service, you have to build an operation that does that successfully. And not all sales or profit or EBITDA is the average of all of your activities. Some of them produce a lot of ebitda, some of them take away from your ebitda. So you wanna find what exactly is the lever that I wanna pull? What do I wanna double down on? And sometimes it's saying no to revenue to protect your ebitda.

[Tommy]

A lot of time it's saying no to revenue. I mean, it's a lot of time. I just did a video on Instagram and I said, there's a $5 million company making 10%, there's a million dollar company making 30%.

[Yaren Gaon]

Which one would you buy?

[Tommy]

Well, the fact is, I only buy off of ebitda.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yeah.

[Tommy]

And what's nice about what we do is I could take a high revenue and change some stuff in it because they got the leads. But I know what to cut. Like, usually when we buy a big business, we got to cut like 40% of it.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yes.

[Tommy]

People don't understand that. I buy the business, I pay them on the ebitda. But I know where their profit is because we do deep analysis. We just cut everything.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yes.

[Tommy]

And they go, man, I can't believe he got rid of the gates. Like, because they did gates. Yeah. Like we're just cutting. We bought a company recently in Dallas. We're getting rid of the gates.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yeah.

[Tommy]

Because literally it's not making money, it's not making profit. Yeah. And we don't do gates.

[Yaren Gaon]

So why do you think the owner didn't cut the gates?

[Tommy]

I think the fact is, I really don't think they really realize this is where the bookkeeping comes in. I don't think most people know where their profits coming from.

[Yaren Gaon]

Correct.

[Tommy]

I think they. They're good business owners. They got a good bookkeeper. They don't get audited financials, and they don't know where the money's coming from. They don't look. You got to look at the entirety of that business unit and say, what did it cost? What are the insurance costs? What are the trucks cost? What are the gas costs? What are the people that are booking the phone calls costs? And it's hard to come up with the numbers to do that. You got to have a really built, strong financial company to look at these things. But when you realize that, you go, huh, if we only made out $130,000 this month, 10,000. You look at that, you're like, what is that, 7%? Is it worth it when we're making 25%?

[Yaren Gaon]

Yes.

[Tommy]

And that took a long time for me to learn. I was doing 17 million walking in every room, bragging about revenue.

[Yaren Gaon]

But it's exactly the kind of businesses that I work. It's the same. You were a business with leads, product market fit with traction, and it's just diluted focus. This is what this is. So let's talk about financials for a moment. Because I built a calculator, and all of my tools are free and publicly open. I don't sell tools. And the idea here is, here's where people get this wrong. When they look at their business, they look at it as one thing, but their business is not one thing. It's a collection of multiple different things you do either different products you sell or different type of customers you serve or different channels you acquire customers through. And if you look at your business, you ask yourself, okay, so if I had to almost, like, segment my business by type of product that I sell or by the type of. The type of. Like the type of Personas or customers that I serve. And then what most people do is they look at their cogs, right? They look at the direct cost and say, hey, this is profitable. What they don't look at a lot of time is the overhead that is associated with that specific activity. So let's take an example. Let's say that you have a wholesale side to your business, and you have a retail side. There are different office or backend or overhead costs that are associated with that revenue stream that, if you didn't have that revenue stream, were never there. So if you are doing, like, wholesale, that requires a special sales team to sell to that size.

[Tommy]

Not to mention you got wholesale, you got different insurance.

[Yaren Gaon]

Correct.

[Tommy]

You got cigarette breaks, you got trailers, you've got different machinery parts, everything. And so we've gotten into this discussion a lot in the last year of should we start stocking all the inventory? And I'm like, I've done that. I've done that a lot. And I go, I just don't think we'll get to the size where it might make sense. Yeah. But this wholesale side, I'm involved with a flooring company. Great people. I'm going to have them listen to this podcast. But we're going to do commercial, residential, wholesale. It's a lot of things and it's not very profitable. It's hard because you think we should put more money in and just try to make it work. But I tell people, don't borrow money. Get profitable.

[Yaren Gaon]

Correct.

[Tommy]

Profit, eventually, if you want to grow, if you want to buy another business or you're buying trucks or special machinery, eventually, after two years, you could invest in certain things. But I like to make the small mistakes and use my own profitability to grow. Because if you're not making enough profit, why would you want growth?

[Yaren Gaon]

Correct. It's almost like profit or I'm sorry, capital or money is an accelerant. Right. It can move you forward. But unless you have a super tight machine that you know, predictably, I'm going to put $1 in, I'm going to get a $50 out. Like why would you get debt or why would you raise. It's all about self funding. You don't have to self fund the growth, but it's really just like make sure your model is super, super tight and profitable. Like the million dollar company does 30% net profit. I will throw capital it gladly over the five million dollar company that does 10%.

[Tommy]

10%, 7%. Yeah.

[Yaren Gaon]

It's all about tightening your machine before you scale capital or money is just, it's a scale.

[Tommy]

So like for me, I look at capital, like if you gave me $100 million extra, I would put that mostly in the top of funnel marketing because

[Yaren Gaon]

you have a machine.

[Tommy]

But I know in 18 months that I'm going to take market share. Yeah. And that's. That literally will compound into taking market share in all the markets.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yes. But you're in a position where your machine is so tight and tuned that

[Tommy]

we know where every doll.

[Yaren Gaon]

Correct. So putting money into top of funnel is just an accelerant.

[Tommy]

Yeah.

[Yaren Gaon]

For a lot of companies. I don't think a lot of companies have Lead problem they have.

[Tommy]

They all say they do.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yeah, because it's the easiest to do.

[Tommy]

Oh my gosh. If I could just get more leads. Why? To keep the machine going. So you keep hiring people to make no money.

[Yaren Gaon]

Correct.

[Tommy]

And then the CPA calls you at the end of the year, says you owe 300 grand and you go, I don't even have 300 grand. How's that possible? Where's the money? Where did the money go?

[Yaren Gaon]

Yeah. They all say number one priority for a business owner is to identify where what is the business is an engine. Right. What are the different components of that engine? And where is my profit flowing? Profit. Now revenue. Revenue is super easy, but it's a misleading metric. And that's how good companies.

[Tommy]

That's what everybody says. I tell them, my buddies and I, we don't. Do you think every month on like the 28th or 30th, we're sending each other revenue numbers? No, no, we're talking about ebitda. You cannot talk about profit because you

[Yaren Gaon]

cannot feed your family.

[Tommy]

You sell revenue.

[Yaren Gaon]

Correct.

[Tommy]

You can sell a business. Home service is a great multiple. I mean anywhere from 5x to 20

[Yaren Gaon]

somethingx and what size?

[Tommy]

You know, a million to two depending on the industry. So high demand.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yep.

[Tommy]

Demand means it breaks. I need it fixed right now. The hot water heater, blue, it's leaking. The garage door, I can't get out the air conditioning, it's 120 degrees out. If it's demand driven, about a million in H vac might get you around an 8 to 10x.

[Yaren Gaon]

Around 5 in EBITDA or top EBITDA?

[Tommy]

Yeah, about 5 to 10 million. You'll probably get a 12 to 14x.

[Yaren Gaon]

That's a great margin. That's a great multiple.

[Tommy]

And 20 million of EBITDA, you're probably getting a 17 to 18x.

[Yaren Gaon]

What? EBITDA or multiple is basically the predictability of your machine. Yes, that's what this is.

[Tommy]

Well, as interest rates go down and you borrow money, this is what private equity understands. If I borrow 6x EBITDA, my cash on cash return, especially if the interest is low, I could borrow my cash on cash return as much better. As long as the business can pay the debt and grow at the same time, which is difficult. A lot of businesses borrow too much and they can't grow and pay the debt.

[Yaren Gaon]

Debt is a double edged sword. Right. You want to take debt or you want to take capital. When you are positive that your machine is optimized and that is what most people skip, they just Skip it. They skip the optimization part. They jump straight to growth. A lot of it is ego.

[Tommy]

Your ego is not your amigo when

[Yaren Gaon]

it comes to business. That's a good one. Yeah, that's it. It's like a step that people skip at a specific stage that costing them and just make sure that they get stuck in this $5 million stage, usually 1 to 10. And it's crazy because you find great businesses passing a million dollars in sales is not an easy task. I think only 4% of the U.S. businesses surpass $1 million in sales. It's not an easy task.

[Tommy]

What about 100 million?

[Yaren Gaon]

I think it's 1%. It's super, super small. But you see these businesses and you see the 1 to 10, and they just get stuck. But it's crazy because there's good team, there's traction or product market fit, and they get stuck because they don't optimize before they scale.

[Tommy]

It's a very good observation. I always say revenues for vanity, profits for sanity.

[Yaren Gaon]

That's what's cash is king.

[Tommy]

And they say, you know, a lot of people are like, well, you don't understand. I hear that same phrase. You don't understand. You don't understand. You don't understand. And I'm like, what don't I understand? I was in your shoes. I've lived your life. And I go, I'm the only one that understands. I was there running extra jobs just to make sure we made payroll. I mean, I've done it. My mom has worked for the company. I mean, we've gone through so much. And what I know now is if you focus on profitability, what I'm willing to do is shave revenue dramatically to get to profitability. And that almost seems like a failure to most companies. Like, it feels like, man, I'm really making the wrong decision. One of my buddies, really smart guy, he shaved all of his new construction, got rid of it all, and he says, I took a $5 million hit on revenue.

[Yaren Gaon]

So what?

[Tommy]

Not a big deal.

[Yaren Gaon]

What's the bottom line?

[Tommy]

Impact bottom line. But not to mention, new construction will lower your multiple. So I said, what are you trying to do? Are you trying to get the highest multiple? Because right now you get a. If you get rid of the new construction, you might go down a million dollars of EBITDA, but you go from a 6 to a 12X, right?

[Yaren Gaon]

If you want to exit, that's a game between the multiple and the ebitda. Because there's. These are the two levers.

[Tommy]

There are two Levers.

[Yaren Gaon]

Correct.

[Tommy]

Yeah. And that's one thing we that most people listening, I think they should be taking a lot out of this. I talked to power washers. They wash. Yeah. And they clean windows. And they asked me what I should do, what should I do.

[Yaren Gaon]

You said switch. Switching. Just.

[Tommy]

You heard me talk about this. I go, yeah. I think the best bet would be try to get up to this level. Try to get a 6X. That way you got $10 million to work with if you're going to be working just as hard to get a client. I mean, there's jobs that don't really require a whole lot. Like, for example, insulation. It's pretty easy. Garage flooring, There's a lot of things that don't require. And by the way, the owners don't need to be good at the job. You don't need to be a technician. The E Myth revisited talks about Michael Gerber. Why would you want to be a master of that? So you could go do the work? So you could go inspect the work, or would you be a master of business?

[Yaren Gaon]

Correct.

[Tommy]

Most CEOs that are professional CEOs, they don't come in understanding the entire business. They spent six months learning the business enough to understand each role, how the widget's made, but they're never going to be a master that they could take out the hammer and go do the job.

[Yaren Gaon]

What do you think they're masters at?

[Tommy]

The what? The masters.

[Yaren Gaon]

What do you think they're masters at?

[Tommy]

Most CEOs, the best ones, they could see around the corners and see the future. They know how to produce profitability, but they're really good at producing teams that are accountable. So it starts with an org chart, and then it starts with each and every KPI that adds to that profitability, like the booking rate, the conversion rate, the average ticket, and the cost per lead. That's how you make money. Reduce cancellation rates in home service capacity planning. I think what they do is they learn the business, they set a good vision, and then they bring the right team onto to absolutely execute that vision.

[Yaren Gaon]

Okay.

[Tommy]

And they're very good at time management. They don't waste a lot of their days on stupid meetings like Elon Musk's rule. If you're in a meeting that you don't think you should be on, then walk out if you're not pertinent to them. Because how many meetings do you think most teams have? Some of them have no meetings. That's a mistake. And then some of them are meetings all day that they never get to work.

[Yaren Gaon]

Correct.

[Tommy]

So what's the right. What's the right solution to that?

[Yaren Gaon]

To what? To have more meetings.

[Tommy]

People that are in meetings all day long.

[Yaren Gaon]

What is the solution for people that have meeting on the look. So let's talk about why they have meetings all day long. They have meeting all day long because they feel like they have to control their situation. What? There's a reason why people have meetings because they substitute systems for decisions. Those meetings don't make decisions, so they have multiple of them. But I want to go back just for one moment on the what does the best CEO have? In my opinion, it's people plus the ability to allocate resources. So as a CEO, as a manager, or as a business owner, your job really, if you don't want to be the operator, you want to be the owner. Right. Talking about the E myth is just decide where energy goes. Energy and capital and people. And just like it's a mixture of the focus and the vision. Right. What exactly. I have a team of 10. What are we focusing on? What am I feeding them? What are we saying no to? And the smart, successful CEOs and owners are able to make better decisions. Better decisions executed by top a class individuals equals profit.

[Tommy]

Yeah.

[Yaren Gaon]

Make sense.

[Tommy]

It's true.

[Yaren Gaon]

It's a little abstract, but it's all about. Business is a game of the mind. Right. Unless you want to be a technician. If you're playing an owner game, it's about making decisions. And it's almost like chess. Right. So your ability to make decisions and specifically profitable decisions around where energy goes. It's one of. It's going to dictate.

[Tommy]

I like that a lot. Where. Where the energy goes.

[Yaren Gaon]

Because that's what. Because a lot of times people just spend a lot of time kind of systemizing. Let's do more meetings. Let's have quarterly priorities. Let's have all these like project management in place, but they haven't really made a decision around. Is this something that worth spending time

[Tommy]

with one of our best project managers? She's absolutely phenomenal. Her name's Joan. She's like, does this move us to the North Star?

[Yaren Gaon]

Correct.

[Tommy]

And she's like, there's only 10 things possible we could have. And my COO is amazing. His name's Luke. Whenever I say we need to focus on this, he goes, this is the top five.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yeah.

[Tommy]

Which one should we take out?

[Yaren Gaon]

Yeah.

[Tommy]

And then we got to look at those and say, is this get us to the North Star, which is our EBITDA goal.

[Yaren Gaon]

Is that your North Star.

[Tommy]

I mean, as a company, there's a lot of people that have equity in this business and there's a lot of people that have profit units and different types. I mean the North Star for me is a little bit different. But as we have private equity backing us, they're trying to get a good return for their partners and their selves. So yeah, I would say customer service, making sure people win along the way. But obviously we rank ourselves, we set a budget and we say, did we hit the budget this month and are we headed in the right direction? Yeah, and I think that's what most businesses do. I mean if you're publicly traded, you gotta fiduciary responsibility to all of your stockholders to maximize profitability. I know there's certain growth in like Jeff, Jeff Bezos. Well, he knew when the stock was $2 that the market was like it was worth a lot more than that. He didn't let it bother him, but he still knew that he had to get the stock price up. Yeah, I mean, what should be the North Star?

[Yaren Gaon]

So here's the challenge with the EBITDA as a North Star, right. EBITDA as a North Star doesn't necessarily allow you to make long term decisions.

[Tommy]

Yeah, you're right.

[Yaren Gaon]

If you look at everything through the penny of the dollar and like, okay, is that going to contribute to EBITDA or not? That's great. But you might end up with a very different company than the one you envisioned.

[Tommy]

That's true.

[Yaren Gaon]

So I want to. The way that I like to think about this is I like to start when we talk about. No, start is like what exactly are you trying to solve here? And maybe that sounds a little bit abstract for most people thinking I'm doing a garage door, what am I trying to solve? But if you extrapolate this and you want to become a best in class business, what is the problem you want to have? What are you trying to really do here and how would you measure that success? Is that number of people that are not stuck with their garage door for less than three hours. Is that, that people? I don't really know what is business dependent, but if you're able to articul. What exactly am I trying to change in the market? Right. You started A one, why did you start A one? What were you trying to change that your competitors were missing?

[Tommy]

Well, I was in my early 20s.

[Yaren Gaon]

I know.

[Tommy]

Yeah. Mine started off as I was a work. The first ten years were practice. I didn't have a systematic way of looking at the business as you grow

[Yaren Gaon]

and you become a little bit more sophisticated and you grow a little bit more business, there's a bigger business here. There's other people need to opt in. Into what you're doing.

[Tommy]

I said no to a lot more things, and I say absolutely not. And by the way, I go in now to discussions of new opportunities, and I say, this is the only way that this would work out. And I never veer from that. Like, if it's not going to be this, then we're not going to take that on.

[Yaren Gaon]

So you're intentional.

[Tommy]

Yeah, very, very intentional.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yeah.

[Tommy]

Because look, if you say yes, like you said, I mean, you say yes to too many things, and it's like you're. You're. You're literally juggling and everything falls.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yes.

[Tommy]

I wish everyone could pay attention to this podcast and just realize, where are you making your money? What lead source are you making your money? And here's the thing. You might have my buddy, Tom Howard. He's got a guy that does $20 million a year in hvacs in the field. His name is Phil. When you get that kind of performance. Now, he took him out of the field to train everybody else. Now he's got a bunch of $12 million producers because the guy kind of taught everyone else. That's crazy. One guy in one business doing $20 million at 70% gross profit.

[Yaren Gaon]

That is crazy. It's also a risk, but yes.

[Tommy]

Oh, yeah, you wouldn't want to buy that business because he's got key man insurance for that.

[Yaren Gaon]

I mean.

[Tommy]

Yeah, but. But if that guy could start molding everybody else, that's what they did. Yeah. And I think that's very powerful considering there's a lot of H Vac businesses that don't do a million. Imagine having one guy doing 20 times what your whole business does.

[Yaren Gaon]

It just goes to show that it can be done. And it's a series of decisions. It's not the market. You don't need to expand. It's not adding more services. It's becoming best in class in what you choose to do. And most people just never choose. They never choose a lane. So they try to become great at everything, and they end up being mediocre at everything. So it's choosing a lane where I feel like I have the most advantage because. Because of xyz. And I chose that lane, and I'm going to focus on that lane so I can become the best in my territory in that lane. And then I scale. Yeah, I hope I own my market. I own my Domain. I own my industry. It doesn't have to be the whole market. I own retail at a specific geography for a specific type of customer. And I tap that until there's no more left and there's no more leads left to serve.

[Tommy]

You could own like 20% of the market.

[Yaren Gaon]

Correct. And then find a different market. Yeah, but don't expand when you own like a quarter. Like 0.1% of the market.

[Tommy]

1% even. Yeah. So what do you tell? You work with 400 companies. How do you get this through to people?

[Yaren Gaon]

I start with a shared source of truth. So we talked a lot about decision, and we talked a lot about growth decisions. So the first what I found to be most helpful is you have to start with articulating your decision. So I built a canvas. It's a one page that basically says all of your decisions for your business. So everybody in the business has the same idea or shared mental model of what you're building here. That canvas includes who is the type of customer that I'm focusing on, what are the revenue stream that I'm focusing on, what is my lead acquisition strategy? So what channel am I focusing on? What's my hook? What is the incentive? And then kind of just going through and outlining on one page what is the exact most profitable version of my business that I can create. And you create this shared source of truth. Basically, it's 18 questions, simple questions that are, instead of doing MBA talk, it's like, what customer are you focusing on? The hardest question is, what revenue stream produces the most profit today? And you just answer these questions as a team with all of your stakeholders, and you put this in your office or in your warehouse, and you print it, and this becomes a source of truth. So as you face a decision, an opportunity comes into your sphere. You ask yourself, okay, this is my source of truth. Does it align with it? Do I need to update my source of truth? And because it's written and because you've made it with your team, it's strong and it allows you to stay focused and you can revisit it as you go and you learn more.

[Tommy]

Yeah, you change it every year.

[Yaren Gaon]

But it serves as like, I have made an explicit decision. I have chosen my success metric. I have chosen the segment or the type of customer that I want to focus on. I have chosen the most profitable part of my business I want to double down on in the next year. The mere act of choosing and putting it on paper is where a lot of value is created without changing execution.

[Tommy]

I love that. Where do you get it?

[Yaren Gaon]

You go to Playbook Fractional Partners, and you download Playbook Fractional Partners. So what this really is. It's a private equity playbook that I'm trying to bring to smaller companies. So instead of having a playbook, if you were just like yourself, you were talking about, I bought a company and I cut 40% of it, and I basically increased my EBITDA.

[Tommy]

Yeah.

[Yaren Gaon]

But instead of selling it, here's a playbook you can do yourself. And instead of having someone external buy you out and do it for you, take the same principles that a private equity would have if they buy you and do it yourself. Now, if you're.

[Tommy]

Do you think it's easy? It's not easy to work with people. I find that the people listening, and they know who they are. Yeah, they're stubborn. You know, they. They just. Like a kid, you could say, listen, don't go do this. Make sure you wear a helmet when you ride your bike. What do they do when they get around the corner? They're like, yeah, you know, so like, sometimes. And I was that way. Sometimes you got to feel the pain to make the change.

[Yaren Gaon]

Correct.

[Tommy]

And I'm hoping that the people could actually adopt this before they get to the point where they're like, how many people do you think message me a week to say, I don't know what to do because I'm out of money, I'm going through a divorce, I'm losing everything. They get distressed and it shouldn't get to that level.

[Yaren Gaon]

Correct.

[Tommy]

And there's a better way.

[Yaren Gaon]

Correct. Because when I worked, I worked in a venture capital firm as an entrepreneur in residence. And basically what it means is I was the entrepreneur that the fund sent to help companies, and I only work with distressed companies. And I was like, distressed, meaning that usually they run out of money. And I kept wrestling with, like, why get there? There is a process you can do to never get that. Don't get to that burnout. Don't get to the point where you don't have more capital. Don't get to the point where your debt is so high. And to your question, how do you have them? I built a system. So this canvas is really like a system of, here are the decisions you need to make, and here is when you need to make those decisions. So if you bring a system like eos, Right. Entrepreneur operating system, there's a system to systemize chaos. I built the same thing to systemize how you make decisions and how you make more profitable decisions. If you do it with your team, you can do it yourself. You can have me come in and help you go through the system, but it's meant as a diy. You will see your business shrink. You will see people enjoy what they do more. You will be more effective. You will do less, and you will make more. And it's not hocus pocus, it's math by subtraction. Correct. You just have to. So I found that a lot of people don't know what to sub. They don't want to say no to revenue because they're not confident that say no to revenue is actually going to increase their profit. But if I walk them through a system where they walk themselves with a system where every decision built upon another, they can start making cut decisions with confidence. That's where the value is. Right. Part of the workflow is to analyze your financials and try to find where exactly. Is it worth focusing on what revenue stream? Or should I focus on conversion or on more traffic or on retention? What part? Once you go through that process and you have an answer, it's much easier to say, hey, we're not doing that. That just doesn't align. So step number one is like data. Step number two is decisions.

[Tommy]

I find that it's. Look, we look at a lot of companies to buy. Yeah. And getting the data is the hardest part. There's no good books. They don't have conversion data. They don't have call booking data. They don't have attribution data. And that's why I find it hard for you to want to work with a $2 million business because it takes a long time to even find that data.

[Yaren Gaon]

It takes a lot of time to find the data. That is true. There's a process that we need to go through to clean their data. It's there. Like if there's enough, it's there. And I don't. So there's two different types of data or two different types of insights you can get from looking at a financial data. One is tactical insight and the second is strategic insight. And I try to keep it as clear as I can. Tactical insight is what do I need to optimize in the machine to make more money? Do I need to focus on conversion or do I need to focus on retention? Do we have a lifetime problem or do I have a traffic problem? These are hard to find in $2 million businesses because they don't keep metric about how their machine is working. That's one set of data. The second set of data is strategic data. Strategic data asks the question what revenue streams are worth doubling down on? And these are macro questions. These are a little bit. Zoom out. Do I want to focus on wholesale or on retail? Do I focus on H Vac or do I focus on plumbing? Do I focus on new install versus maintenance versus different product that I'm selling? These questions can be relatively easily answered by playing with your P and L. And you know that the data is not perfect, but it's directional data and that's what we're looking for. Direction. Right. Once I have direction, you can put some system to really capture the minute details of your conversion and your retention, all that good stuff. But first I want to make sure that they're in the right direction. I'm going to pause because this is like.

[Tommy]

No, it makes a lot of sense. I get it. Why are you doing this? Why? You got a lot of knowledge. You could be an asset for any company. What's the point of going to these smaller businesses, by the way? I think it's a noble cause. I love helping people.

[Yaren Gaon]

I see a lot of value. So selfishly. Let's talk selfishly, why I'm doing this. I see a ton of value in taking a one to $10 million business that is not investable today, that is not scalable today, and walk them through a maturity process where at the end of it, they are interesting to private equities and they are basically, I'm turning them into investable assets. There's a lot of value that can be captured there for me and for companies. But the higher goal is like a. I love building systems and I love seeing aha moments in people like they've built something, something is working, but they don't. Just don't know how to squeeze that lemon. Yeah, but they built something of value, but it's not being captured today because nobody wants to Invest in a $5 million business. Top line. Right? But there's a gem. So if you can take them through a process of kind of figuring out what's the noise and what's the signal and have them build a more profitable version of it, there's a ton of value that can be captured there.

[Tommy]

What is your profit leak audit.

[Yaren Gaon]

It's the financial audit.

[Tommy]

That's what you do with the strategic.

[Yaren Gaon]

So I built a calculator for service based businesses. You type in your profit, your marketing cost, how many leads? And he basically spits out, what do you want to focus? What is the most profitable lever for you to focus on right now? And it's the beginning of doing this kind of Work. We have to start with what are the numbers telling us?

[Tommy]

Well, can you imagine, this is a good analogy. Can you imagine that you have a secret recipe from grandma and you've got this special call it cookies. They're oatmeal raisin cookies. But every time you don't remember the amount you put in anything. So there's no real recipe for success. You're like, I don't know how much flour versus how much yeast versus how much vanilla extract. I think that's how businesses operate. I really do. I think they, they don't really know how much marketing dollars that I put in there. They don't know the math, they don't know the measurements, they don't know the KPIs. And they're running so blind. And they got more leads. But I'm like, more leads mean more cancellations. You're booked out already.

[Yaren Gaon]

More leads are not free.

[Tommy]

Yeah. And then what do they do? They trust their agency to say, go get me more leads. We're doing. And then they're spending money on ppc. You're competing with everybody that needs more leads. It's the only thing you could really do. Social media and pay per click, maybe some LSA ads, but you got to be better than that. That's why I love home improvement. They could go to a home show and generate 500 leads. They could go door to door. They could go set up a place at Walmart and generate unlimited leads because they learn how to hunt. And that's one thing I really respect about home improvement companies. They build demand where it didn't exist.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yeah.

[Tommy]

What do you, what are some of your success stories of owners that actually understood this, you've worked with them and where they are today?

[Yaren Gaon]

I built this in different ways. So the framework as it is today has evolved all the time. Usually I work with a company and we started first step is to identify where profit is coming from. So as I unblocked or unlooked at their books looked like they have multiple different, multiple different channels that they sell their product at. So it's not as one to one to home services but it was a DC product. But basically they were selling their product in multiple different ways and not all of them are created equal. So let's talk about acquisition for a moment. Not all lead generating activities produce the same a quality of leads and B at the same price. So as identifying the first activity is to identify where's their actual profit coming from. So once we did we cut 80% of their activities and hyper Focus. In this example, there was just a website and profit doubles in 12 months. And it's just the idea of you already have the product, you already have the team. It's really just about like focusing and narrowing down because you can't do everything well if you are 1 to 10 million dollar company, you just can't.

[Tommy]

You're right. You know, I think it's hard. The hardest thing about home service is capacity planning where you need a certain amount of jobs for a guy. That's why I like pay per click, because I could get more jobs if I need them. Because you got to keep the guys happy. You don't want them running one job a day, but you don't want them running five.

[Yaren Gaon]

But it's a trap. It's a trap because if you look at this from a capacity perspective, you might get jobs that are not good jobs, quote unquote for you just to fill your capacity.

[Tommy]

Well, the fact is you could downsize the people you have for sure. But in my opinion, we're the same price book in every market. 24 states. We walk in, someone called us out for a reason. It's an opportunity. I used to be in this role. I know there's an opportunity there. It doesn't mean I have to sell you something that's broke. What I'm going to do is offer everything and say, did you know that we could install an opener that Amazon prime could deliver and Walmart could deliver groceries? Did you know the bottom rubber is what keeps all the nasty bugs out and yours is heart. Like people think I only sell things people need. You know what I buy?

[Yaren Gaon]

What'd you buy?

[Tommy]

I buy things I want.

[Yaren Gaon]

Correct.

[Tommy]

So when somebody explains, if a plumber comes to my house and says, listen, you don't have any issues in this house, but how long does it take your hot water to get hot? And I say 35 seconds. They say, if I got it hot in five seconds, would that be interesting to you? If, if literally what would happen is if you don't have an automatic shutoff valve and your water is leaking.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yeah.

[Tommy]

You know, that could cost. God forbid the hot water heater goes out. That could be a $50,000. You know, obviously an insurance thing. Everything gets ruined. Would you like us to put an automatic shut off valve so you find

[Yaren Gaon]

opportunities within the lead that you've already got?

[Tommy]

Yeah. Well, you ask questions and you educate.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yeah.

[Tommy]

And there's no reason. And a lot of people just feel like you're a scumbag salesman. I'm like, look, I'm going to offer them everything. Are you a scumbag? If you work at Nordstrom's and you offer them a belt and a jacket and shoes and pants? I always say, listen, I'm gonna go through everything with you. No matter your age, no matter your color, no matter your gender, and no matter what, it's gonna be the same for everybody. And if you like something, great, if not, no big deal. So many people have a problem with this in the home service space. You know what I like to go to the steak 44 I told you about. I wanna hear the specials. Tell me about everything. Tell me about the best drinks. Even if I got somebody that's not drinking with me, I'm still going to listen and hear the observations.

[Yaren Gaon]

You know what I hear? I hear increasing average order value and really having a super tight machine that every lead that comes in the door is being extracted. Extracted might sound like opportunistic, but like serviced.

[Tommy]

Yeah. Well, the fact is, if you're an American, you're my client, you still live. I don't care if you're in Mississippi, New Jersey, California. I had the same price book everywhere. And people are like, how does that work? It's. You got to pay people different parts of different. It doesn't need to be that way for us. Yes, but we're not a big ticket. We're not selling $40,000 tickets.

[Yaren Gaon]

You're also in a very specific niche and product. So if you are in a very specific niche and product, you can be more lenient with the type of customers that you were serving.

[Tommy]

Right.

[Yaren Gaon]

But you made a focus decision at the beginning, which I'm going to focus on garage doors. I'm not going to fix your water heater. It's not my business. My business is garage door. So within Garage Door, I can sell you the strip and I can sell you the clicker, and I can sell you the service maintenance plan. But that's my niche. That's what I know how to do extremely well. And then I can train other people to do that, but that is my focus. So I can serve the grandma or the young couple with a new house. It doesn't really matter to me because I am niche specific.

[Tommy]

And every lead, once we get in there, we've got a process. And if the process is fully executed properly, it works. And we build the LTV up. And all I ask is, listen, if you're selling the house, let's make sure you pass inspection. But if you're selling the house in three months, let us Come out, look at the next garage door. We're going to get this to pass inspection. We want to be your garage door company for life. And if you treat people right, you get a high net promoter score. Great reviews. You build a lasting impression. That's how you build a business. Yeah. When I first started, people took 50 cards. Like I've given this to everybody at work. You're the best. Like you took care of me. They felt like I was their best friend when I left.

[Yaren Gaon]

So let's talk about this because a moment. Because a lot of people focus on top of funnel. Right. They focus on leads and what you were just describing is retention.

[Tommy]

Yeah.

[Yaren Gaon]

How can I. How can I extend and prolong the relationship?

[Tommy]

Service agreements.

[Yaren Gaon]

That's one. That's. That's a mechanism one way.

[Tommy]

The other way is to build. Do you know what a net promoter score means?

[Yaren Gaon]

I do.

[Tommy]

Nine intents mean they're going to promote for you. They're going to tell everybody in the world about you.

[Yaren Gaon]

So this goes back to the experience and create delight.

[Tommy]

Yes.

[Yaren Gaon]

That creates advocacy. Yeah.

[Tommy]

We offer coffee on the way. We try to do something more like take their garbage out, mow their lawn. Like I had a guy mow somebody's lawn. I'm buying air pressure test for that. Will check their carb pressure. Just one thing above and beyond we don't need to do.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yeah. You know what?

[Tommy]

It's only a few minutes.

[Yaren Gaon]

But you know what it does? It increases your lifetime value, it lowers your cost of acquisition and it just creates a much more efficient machine and increases your frequency of purchase just by hyper focusing everything. Hyper focusing on the bottom of the funnel, on the client you already have, versus more traffic from new clients.

[Tommy]

You're right. You're right. And I wrote down a note to myself that we need to focus more on the LTV and you can't do. What's crazy about our business is we'll do 410 million this year.

[Yaren Gaon]

It's a great amount of money.

[Tommy]

There's money in every corner.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yeah.

[Tommy]

I mean there's money everywhere. There's so much money. And quite frankly, we only have. With 1200 people at this business, we only have enough time to focus on certain things.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yes.

[Tommy]

And we know there's a pot of gold. We just got to get to that pot of gold. But it's like we haven't slowed down the machine because we have. It's hard to explain everything that goes on. But I like this conversation because it actually brings me back down to it grounds me. There's a lot of opportunity.

[Yaren Gaon]

It's okay to slow and optimize before you run slow, optimize, build a super tight machine.

[Tommy]

Well, what happens is every time we start making a ton of money and I feel like I'm getting bored, that's when we go to the growth again. Because you. You almost got to grow, optimize, grow again, optimize again. It's not just you optimize, grow, grow, grow, grow, grow. It's grow, optimize, grow again, optimize again. You got to have these layers.

[Yaren Gaon]

People miss the optimize step. Yeah, they just miss it. They skip it. They just go to grow, grow, grow, grow, grow, and then end up with a super big business with super low margin. But that's what happens.

[Tommy]

It is all the time.

[Yaren Gaon]

So you have to almost like force yourself and your team to focus. Because think of you have 1200 employees. They all make decisions by themselves, some more, some less. But like, being able to articulate where we're going and disseminate it to your team is much harder than it looks. Especially as you grow, it becomes more and more complex, More and more complex. Actually communicate your direction and what we are doing and what we're not doing to the field technician as you grow.

[Tommy]

You know, it doesn't. It doesn't just. Because if we don't. If we do the same exact thing in just a lot of markets and the United States is a big place.

[Yaren Gaon]

It is.

[Tommy]

And there's. We're only in 24 states.

[Yaren Gaon]

So you're saying I'm not touching the machine. I'm just expending geographically.

[Tommy]

Yeah, that's just.

[Yaren Gaon]

My model is proven, and guys could

[Tommy]

go to any market and they could jump in the truck and it's. It's the exact same thing. Sometimes the garage door is a little bit different, like extension springs. Sometimes it's Wayne Dalton springs. But it's the same stuff everywhere.

[Yaren Gaon]

You own all of your locations. Why didn't you franchise?

[Tommy]

Because you lose too much control. You got the FTC breathing down your back. I think franchises could be a great thing, but I think everybody that sucks at business says, I'm going to create

[Yaren Gaon]

a franchise because the thing is going to solve them.

[Tommy]

Now they'll pay me. Yeah, they'll pay me 7 or 8% of everything. All I need to do is sell locations. But you're getting out of the core business. Correct. Now you're trying to sell people businesses in a box. And I tell people, look, you're making a mistake if the reason you franchise, you got Such a tight business model. It's replicated everywhere and you can speed up way faster. It's like McDonald's. What a great business model. You can put it anywhere. They know how to pick the locations. They get all the extra money on the food sales, so you got to buy their fries, their ketchup, their buns, all that stuff. I think most people, especially in home service, are like, man, I could start this franchise and everyone's gonna pay me. But they have no manuals, no lead aggregator. They don't have a nationalized call center. They don't know how to do the market. Like, they don't even know how to get the financials. And if I bought that franchise, I'm like, I get a lot of animosity in a couple years going, why am I paying this when I've had to build all the systems? Yeah, you know what I mean?

[Yaren Gaon]

It's early expansion. Yeah, it's again, it's expanding. Franchising is just like getting a loan or having capital is just another accelerant. But if your machine is not tight,

[Tommy]

it's gotta be tight.

[Yaren Gaon]

Then what are you? You're just creating more chaos.

[Tommy]

100%.

[Yaren Gaon]

Same shtick, different model.

[Tommy]

I think this is one of the best podcasts I've ever done. Just because it's such a simple thing of asking those 18 questions and saying say no more than yes.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yeah. It starts by being explicit around what is okay and what is not, what we're doing and what we're not doing. Most people just are reactive. They're just reacting to what the market is offering them. Oh, I got an opportunity. Let's just.

[Tommy]

Well, you do that when you're broke. You say, look, I can go make money this week. Yes, I took on jobs. I took on this gate job that with a solar actuator. I think I went there 20 times and then I finally paid a company to come do it the right way. Yeah. But I saw, man, this is a forty thousand dollar job, shiny object. I mean, I can make some really good money and I can learn along the way and maybe this could be. I will say there's things that you kind of take on. Like there's softwares I looked at that I didn't use. There's other softwares that I've at least taken the time to check out. And I go, oh my gosh, that's a game changer. So I'll look at a lot of stuff and we'll see if it works, but we'll test it. That's One thing we've learned with private equity is you could test it out in a market, not a big market. And if it works, you could test it out in three. But don't make these decisions to just say we're gonna go nationwide and just. Cause it's a lot of work.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yeah. So do you know what happens before you test? But you make a decision, an explicit decision on what you're testing. So If I ask 9 times, 9 out of 10 owner what you're testing, they're not testing anything. When you make a decision and you say, this is who I think my perfect customer is, that is a decision that you can then later test. But if you don't make a decision, you are not receptive to what the market is offering you because you haven't made a decision. Does that make sense? You have to be explicit around, okay, this is the business model that I'm building. This is the type of revenue or the product that I think is going to produce the most amount of profit. This is the type of customer I think is going to produce the most profit. This is the marketing channel that I think is going to give me the most amount of lead at the best price, articulate it, put it in a document, in a canvas, put everything where you want and then you go and you test it in the world. But all of a sudden now you have a written decision so you can test. Okay, I said a. But now I'm experiencing, I'm looking and I'm seeing it's working. It's not working. Do I need to update my decision? And people just skip it. They're not intentional about their.

[Tommy]

Yeah, they're saying yes, yes to everything.

[Yaren Gaon]

So how would you test? How would you get market signal if what I'm doing is correct or not correct?

[Tommy]

Profitability.

[Yaren Gaon]

But profitability is an average of all of your activities.

[Tommy]

Well, you got to be very specific on the actions you're taking. I mean, that's what you got, that's what this is. If someone wanted to work with you, how do you do that? Do you just charge them a one time fee to go out there or it just depends?

[Yaren Gaon]

No. So I walk them through the framework. So the goal of the activity is to create this one source of truth, which is really your growth model or your optimized business model. And what I do with them is I take their team and I take them and either we do an offsite and they come to me, or I come to them and I walk them through an off site or retreat where we basically make those decisions together. And I bring the leadership team, I bring the owner, sometimes I bring the investors or key stakeholders, all the people that need to make a decision in one room and I facilitate each question. And we go in a linear way. What are we trying to achieve here? What is our ultimate goal? Which from all of the customers that we're serving today, which one are we focusing on? What are what we call strategic advantage or core competencies? What do I need know how to do extremely well? That if I'm able to articulate this is going to save me from doing stuff that I'm not good at. Where am I focusing on? And then at the bottom is like how do I find customers, convert them, create a delight experience and make sure that they keep coming back high level. What's the game plan? And then they go and they execute it and they do it and they don't need me anymore. And I meet them once a year when I need to refresh those decisions. My whole belief is a lot of strong founders don't need operational help. If you are $2 million in sales, you know how to sail your job or my job is to help you focus on the more profitable sides.

[Tommy]

Yeah.

[Yaren Gaon]

Of your because once you have this, you don't need me tell you how you do your job and then how

[Tommy]

does someone reach out to you?

[Yaren Gaon]

Jared Fractional Partners it's the website. It's also where the playbook is available for free. It's not even a lead magnet. So what usually people do is if they use EOS or entrepreneur operating system they just do this exercise and it replaces their vision Traction organizer. So basically it changes their overall plan and then they still use EOS to do the quarterly priorities. The challenge, if you get anything from today operations is great. Once you have a super tight model and you chose a direction. If you haven't chosen direction you can use systems and meetings all day long and it's not going to do anything. So take a moment, take three days, whatever usually takes two to three days. Bring everybody in the room, make some decisions and then go execute.

[Tommy]

How many people do you think are going to do that?

[Yaren Gaon]

I usually found that most people that do it are in like distressed.

[Tommy]

So either then so the people listening, do you think what are the chances that they do it?

[Yaren Gaon]

15%.

[Tommy]

15.

[Yaren Gaon]

15, 15. 15%. But that's why I made it DIY. You don't even need me. Just do it regardless of me.

[Tommy]

I love this. So Fractional Dot partners and any books that changed your life that you are like a Must read.

[Yaren Gaon]

I read a book called the Road Less Stupid by Keith Cunningham. Are you familiar?

[Tommy]

I've heard of it, but I don't

[Yaren Gaon]

think it's changed my life. Basically, what he taught me that made me build this model is ask better questions, make more money.

[Tommy]

Yeah.

[Yaren Gaon]

So I just built a canvas with the right questions to ask for specific companies and then if they answer those correctly, profit will follow. But if people just never ask them these questions before, so they never need to make a decision. Right. So if you can have a pointed question and come up with a method of how to get to that answer, you will choose a more profitable path. And it's all about. Just one more sentence. It's all about. It's all about finding the path of least resistance. Going back to the beginning. You can be successful and you can grind and you can hustle, but at some point it's going to break. The question is not how do I grind harder? The question is what is the path of least resistance? So I built something here. I built a business. What do I have internally that I can double down on that is the easiest path to get me to where I want to be? There are many paths. There's no right or wrong path and there's no recipe. But there's a process of choosing the right one for you that is the key. Where it's the least amount of effort.

[Tommy]

Take historical data correct. And that'll give you the answer.

[Yaren Gaon]

That would give you part of the answer. If you can take the historical data and make it with connected with decisions of what you're experiencing and seeing what your team is experiencing and you merge the two, then you get a super. I don't wanna. It's not easy. None of it is easy. But a simple path to get to where you wanna be. It's a lot of like, framework and analogies, but I just wanna get to my end result in the fastest, easiest path possible. So let's just look at what works. Let's look at what I have. Let's be a little bit more intentional around intention, focus. Intentional. Yes.

[Tommy]

Yeah, I think that's where most people miss it.

[Yaren Gaon]

And I don't blame it because they grind.

[Tommy]

Well, we're entrepreneurial and we like to say yes to things. So one day I heard this guy say, I don't know how to say no. So I say yes, but just not now. Let's revisit that.

[Yaren Gaon]

Yes, yes.

[Tommy]

And it's easier for entrepreneurs to say yes. Let's revisit it in a year.

[Yaren Gaon]

I love it.

[Tommy]

So I think that's the goal. So any other things closing us out, brother, I really appreciate it. Yarn,

[Yaren Gaon]

don't get distressed. So before you scale, pause with me, without me, whatever you do, pause and really try to identify what is that 20% that moves the other 80% not when it comes to your revenue, but when it comes to your profit and looking it from the profit. Because when you sell a business, you sell it on a profit multiple, not on a revenue multiple. Depends on the business, but most of the time on a profit multiple. You don't pay your college or kids college tuition with revenue, it's with profit. And the idea here is not to just to borrow more money or to raise capital. The idea here is to build a machine that is so profitable that self funded growth and gives you the optionality to decide, okay, I want to accelerate this. Let's take some capital either through debt or through equity, but really like fall in love with a super tight machine that I know that I can put a dollar in and spits out the $50. Even if it's a million dollar in revenue. I don't care. I really don't care. I'll take 10, 10 small businesses and one big one that doesn't make any money.

[Tommy]

I love it. Cool. This is golden, man.

[Yaren Gaon]

I hope this was. I know we talked a lot about like high level stuff, but I hope that people can pause before you run your next quarterly priority or quarterly session. Pause before you make any big decision. Pause what you've built. Version one of your business doesn't need to be the version you actually scale design. Version two. Yeah, there's multiple versions. Your business now is very different than the business you started with.

[Tommy]

Oh, way different.

[Yaren Gaon]

You have to be intentional about creating these versions.

[Tommy]

So good.

[Yaren Gaon]

That's it. That's, that's my take. Mic drop.

[Tommy]

You're great. Appreciate you doing this today.

[Yaren Gaon]

Thank you for, thank you for having me.

[Tommy]

This was great.