The Belief That Separates the People Who Win From Everyone Else | Evan Carmichael

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Belief That Separates the People Who Win From Everyone Else — Evan Carmichael on The Home Service Expert Podcast

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Episode Overview

• Host: Tommy Mello, $200M Founder, Forbes & Entrepreneur Columnist
• Guest: Evan Carmichael – YouTube sensation, author, entrepreneur
• Date: June 30, 2026

Theme:
This episode dives into the mindset and strategies that differentiate top performers from the rest, focusing on belief, serving others, content creation, and building winning teams and cultures in business. Evan shares how his journey—from struggling entrepreneur to global influencer—has been powered by leveraging pain into purpose, and he coaches Tommy (and the audience) on extracting and sharing meaningful stories from within their organizations.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power of Belief and Purpose

• Evan’s Journey and Pain as Purpose ([01:53]–[03:28])

  • Evan describes early struggles as a young, broke entrepreneur, the shame of failing, and how pain informed his purpose: "Your purpose comes from your pain. Whatever you struggled the most with is what you want to help other people through."
  • His content drive: helping other entrepreneurs avoid struggle.

• Borrowed Belief

  • Evan shares how parental belief gave him confidence (even when he didn’t believe in himself):
    “Sometimes you have to borrow belief. When you don't believe in yourself enough to do the thing, you have to borrow belief from someone else.” ([18:29])

• Turning Points & Influences ([20:26])

  • Shout-out to Ms. Farr, his high school French teacher, for “giving space to talk and listening,” which unlocked his potential.

2. Content Creation for Business Owners

• Making Content Fun and Useful ([03:55])

  • “It's got to be fun and it's got to help grow the business.” Don’t do what’s trendy—do what energizes you.
  • Encouragement to film “the lion in his habitat”—real, organic moments.

• Tactical Strategies for Content ([12:17], [15:18], [59:32])

  • Office hours: Create scheduled opportunities for team members to share challenges and receive mentorship, filmed for culture-building content.
  • Use stories: Before-and-after narratives (“American Idol” style) to highlight transformation.
  • Biz Dev Show: Interview high-value partners (e.g., designers for referrals), not for views but to build relationships.
    “The whole point of the show isn't views… it's just a relationship.” ([58:42])
  • Buyer breakthrough videos: Capture answers to your most common customer questions on video for website conversions.

• Content Isn’t About Vanity

  • Platforms don’t matter as much as strategy. Choose channels and content types based on business goals—not just audience size. ([56:27])

3. Leadership, Culture, and Service

• Mentoring and Team Care ([08:52]-[13:41])

  • Tommy shares real stories of helping overwhelmed employees reclaim their confidence: “I don’t have all the answers, but I’ve been through some. If I’ve been through something, let’s have a conversation.”
  • “It’s hard to do… when you add every hundred people [to a company].” Culture requires work and intentional systems.

• Catch People Doing Something Right ([47:13])

  • Shift from correcting mistakes to spotlighting good behavior: “What if you catch them doing something right?”
    Notable practice: Techs text Tommy good news, which he shares team-wide to build energy and aspiration.

• Practical Culture Tactics ([44:33])

  • Encouraging bigger dreams, publicizing wins, giving personal gifts, and fostering connection—small actions that become part of company DNA.

4. Lessons from Titans: What Sets Winners Apart

• Start, Then Keep Going ([50:41])

  • Success isn’t about background or genius, but persistence: “They just started and they kept going. Most people don’t start… or they quit as soon as it gets tough.”

• Falling in Love with the Climb ([00:09], [54:10])

  • Powerful segment on why successful people fear starting over: “Most people don’t want to start over, but then they miss the climb.”
  • Emphasizes that reinvention—even for industry giants—is difficult but necessary.

• Regret Minimization ([24:47])

  • Inspired by Jeff Bezos’s framework: “Live life without regrets.” Tommy and Evan discuss doing the hard things now to avoid future remorse.

5. Personal Development, Identity, and Teaching Through Story

• Changing Identity ([25:39])

  • Tommy speaks on shifting self-concept to drive lasting habits, inspired by Atomic Habits:
    “I’m not just going to go on a diet. I’m a healthy person that eats healthy.”

• Writing to Your Younger Self ([37:32])

  • Evan: “Write your book to your younger self… Imagine you have five minutes on a park bench with 26-year-old you. What would you say?”
  • This approach shapes powerful, relatable content and books.

6. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Service and Happiness:

  • “If you’re not happy, it’s because you’re not serving.” ([34:03])

• On Delegation and Empowerment:

  • “Eliminate, automate and delegate. Good is better than perfect.” – Tommy ([08:52])

• On Compliments and Recognition:

  • “My manager keeps 10 pennies and transfers them for every compliment given.” ([41:01])

• On Humility and Growth:

  • “You don't have to be the smartest guy in the room. Hang out with people who have a common future, not just a common past.” – Tommy ([22:31])

• On Creating Impactful Content:

  • “The best content captures actual human spirit and stories—before, during, after.” ([15:26])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Introduction & Evan’s Story: 00:00–03:28
• Content Creation Challenges & Tactics: 03:28–12:11
• Mentoring Team and Office Hours Concept: 06:17–13:41
• Instilling Belief and Borrowed Confidence: 18:14–20:26
• The Role of Early Influences & Belief: 20:26–21:42
• Game-Changing Advice for 20s: 21:42–23:18
• Regret Minimization/Bezos Framework: 24:47–25:26
• On Identity and Habits: 25:39–26:32
• Failures and Failing Forward: 27:13–27:49
• Tommy’s Leadership Philosophy—Elevate: 28:17–29:48
• Serving and Built to Serve Book: 34:03–36:13
• Writing to Your Younger Self: 37:32–39:45
• Catching People Doing Right / Culture Examples: 44:33–48:22
• Lessons from Titans & Success: 50:41–52:19
• On Starting Over & The Value of the Climb: 54:10–55:43
• Content Channel Selection & Strategies: 56:27–63:32
• Stories, Team, & Content Operations: 69:34–73:10
• Closing Thoughts & Book Recommendations: 77:35–78:43

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Final Thoughts & Calls to Action

• Actionable Learning:

  • Don't just consume content—implement something you’ve learned.
  • “Watching this video is not enough. You gotta take that idea and go do something about it.” – Evan ([78:43])

• Connect with Evan:

  • DM via Instagram @evancarmichael for further insights or to work together.

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Episode Takeaways

• Belief separates winners from everyone else—borrow it, nurture it, instill it.
• Serving others is foundational for meaning, team cohesion, and business growth.
• Real, story-driven content—especially internal stories of transformation—fuels team culture and external brand trust.
• The best content strategy starts with your business objective and grows from relationships, not vanity metrics.
• Culture built on recognition, mentorship, and care not only retains talent but elevates performance and purpose.

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Transcript

[Tommy Mello]

I love saying, yeah, I'm an overnight success of two decades. And the first ten years were practice. And I said, listen, guys, what did go wrong can go wrong. I'm the biggest failure in the room. But here's the thing. I kept failing forward.

[Evan Carmichael]

Why did the Hollywood actors not move to YouTube? They don't want to start over. Why do people not switch platforms? Why did the MySpace people not switch to Instagram? Like they don't want to start over. Starting a YouTube channel, it's like you're starting over. And most people don't want to do it. They don't want to start over, but then they miss the. The climb.

[Tommy Mello]

Today I got Evan Carmichael. This dude is a maniac. He's a YouTube sensation. No social media. He's connected. He. He's coming from Canada. He's the CEO and co founder of Evan Carmichael Communications, author of the One Word and Built to Serve. Evan Carmichael is an entrepreneur, investor, and bestselling author on a mission to help people believe in themselves.

[Evan Carmichael]

Come on now.

[Tommy Mello]

He's an Inc. 100 leadership speaker and Forbes 40 social marketer with over 4 million YouTube subscribers. After building and selling a biotech software company at the age of 19, he went to become a venture capitalist and later one of the world's leading voices for entrepreneurs on YouTube, reaching millions globally. Through his books like Your One Word and Built to Serve, he teaches purpose driven success. It's amazing to have you on, brother.

[Evan Carmichael]

Let's go, man. Here we are. I'm glad you're doing this.

[Tommy Mello]

It's fun, man. You know you're a giver. We met through Joe Polish. Y. The. When I just entered the Genius network. You were upstairs with him, kind of just brainstorming.

[Evan Carmichael]

Okay.

[Tommy Mello]

And you guys, you became really good friends. I mean, Joe is probably the biggest connector and the giver I've ever met. He's. He's a fun guy. He lives right next to me. I get about 77 messages a day from him. Okay, I'm just kidding. But, but why don't. Why don't you, the audience, just get to know you a little bit, tell you about how you came up, tell you what you're passionate about, tell you what you're looking forward to doing?

[Evan Carmichael]

Yeah, I mean, entrepreneurial tendencies my whole life, but I thought I wanted to be a banker. And then in university, I had the choice between go get my dream job or start a business. And I chose start a business. Not that I thought it would work out, just that I didn't wanna live with regret. Like, hey, who knows what will happen? But that company struggled in the first years of making 300 bucks a month. Too afraid to tell anybody. I was struggling. You know, my entrepreneur friend or my, my friends went off and got the jobs and they wanted to go hang out and they're like, I can't, I'm busy, I'm hustling, grinding. But really I was just like dead ass broke. Eventually we turned it around, you know, had an exit and went to vc. And I started making content at the beginning just because I sold my business at 22, you know, not a, not a huge exit, but like, not like world changing money, but like decent. I didn't have to go do something for a while and I got asked to do a bunch of speaking and represent Canada at different events and it just let me down. The content game. And I think ultimately your purpose comes from your pain. I think whatever you struggled the most with is what you want to help other people through. And I struggled so much as an entrepreneur that now I try to help other entrepreneurs not struggle as much. So I built the channel up and then in the process started helping some of the people that I used to look up to. You know, like they came on the interviews with them and then I started helping them their channels. And then past, I don't know, seven years, 10 years have been more pushing guys like you to like, hey, make content. Like, the guys who are actually building the businesses were not making the content. And now like you guys finally are, which is awesome.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah, content is a, it's an acquired taste. It's hard to be like the Kardashians. I gotta give it up to them to be on camera all the time. What I found for me is I don't want to come in here and do a day's worth of content. I want you to just film me in my, like film the lion in his habitat rather than in the cage. What's your best advice to business owners that just haven't got a knack for it? They haven't practiced, they haven't gotten comfortable in front of the camera.

[Evan Carmichael]

So whenever we're working with people, first it's got to be fun. Like you got to find a thing that's fun. Like if you're not the kind of guy who just sits around a table and likes to chat, then like, don't do that. Right. So what is actually gonna be fun to stick with? Especially someone like you who, like, you don't need to do this. Like, your business is going, you're growing. I mean, is it smart. Yeah. But you also don't need to do it. Like, a lot of the guys I work with are super successful. They don't need to do content, you know, like, will it help their brand? Yeah, but they've already made millions of dollars, and so if it's not fun and it's not leading to business growth, they stop. So it's got to be fun and it's got to help grow the business, right? Yeah, that's the thing.

[Tommy Mello]

Talent, attraction, like, differentiation. Like, for me, it's like, so many people with 62 guys graduated last month, 40 of them were like, tommy, we wanted to come work for you. We love you. We follow you. We've read your books. We love your Instagram. Like, that's. That's real.

[Evan Carmichael]

Yeah. It takes a while to get through critical mass with, like, that starts to. You start to see that impact. So you're already doing it. I mean, I love that you're doing this. I mean, we chatted, like, a couple years ago.

[Tommy Mello]

It's been hard to put this team together, and I thought I could build it on my own and I thought I could do all the stuff, but literally, like, getting the right team of people, that it's their whole strategy. I'm a data guy, I'm a metrics guy. KPIs to run the business, math.

[Evan Carmichael]

So what's your. What's your YouTube.

[Tommy Mello]

But I never did that. I never did that on YouTube or Instagram. I never looked at the views, never played around with the titles or the hooks or anything. And I never applied what I know and never looked at it like a business.

[Evan Carmichael]

You know, how to built team. You just never decided that you were gonna do it. Right.

[Tommy Mello]

You know, I'm the same as everyone else out there as I'll get to there. I'm just, you know, and I never made it a passion, never had fun doing it. Now I'm like, dude, I'm like, excited to do it. Yeah.

[Evan Carmichael]

Well, that's great. But it's just like, what do you love doing? And then how can you film the process so people can see it? So, like, this is great. You bring guests in, you talk to them. You love connecting with people, asking questions. Awesome. But what else do you do? Like, the. The amount of times that you tell stories about the guys that you helped on your team. Yeah. Like, from knowing you for a bunch of years, like, you actually care about your team and seeing them grow, like, as humans. Right. Not just, hey, here's it's business, but it's like, they Become your family. Yeah, but that should be captured on content, right? Whether that's mentoring sessions, whether that's like they come into your office, whether that's. They follow you around and you're doing something, whether you have team come in and like, I don't know what you're doing. That it, that flows.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah. Even orientation is, is a fun one,

[Evan Carmichael]

but orientation, how do you do that?

[Tommy Mello]

In a way. So, so Evan, you work for me, you're struggling, you got a lot of stuff. Like I'll give you an example. I got a guy in Milwaukee call me recently. He goes, dude, I just had a baby. My energy's down. I just feel like I'm not enough. Do I say, do you mind if I record all this? I mean, what's the best way to kind of not make that intrusive? To be like, this is somebody coming in with personal shit. But that's the best stuff. But I also don't want to just say, let's go viral with this. I'm going to say I truly want to help you.

[Evan Carmichael]

You. How many people, how many people are at a one right now?

[Tommy Mello]

Almost 1400.

[Evan Carmichael]

Okay. So like access to Tommy is impossible. Right? Like, you do your best, but you're doing a million things. You're doing deals, you're flying everywhere. So you set, you set office hours for team where they can apply to have time with you.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Evan Carmichael]

Where there's like an hour a week or like whatever. I mean typically people do is like block off a morning a month or something.

[Tommy Mello]

Like an open door policy.

[Evan Carmichael]

Well, but, but they like, they, you schedule it in, it's scheduled in so you can go back to back to back to back. You fly them out here or they're local, whatever. Right. And whatever is it. I don't know if this is the best set for it. Like maybe you're just having lunch, maybe you're going for a walk. Maybe like whatever puts them at ease versus like a official, like.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah, with the lights and.

[Evan Carmichael]

Yeah, right. But you set it up so that they know in advance that this is going to be done for content. But they get access to you, which otherwise you wouldn't get. Like they might, you might answer their text or their phone call or whatever. But if they're really going through something and just because you may not go on somebody's show and do it doesn't mean that they won't.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Evan Carmichael]

Like look at people go on Jerry Springer and all the shows. Right. And you're gonna actually help them instead of trying to make them look bad?

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah, 100%.

[Evan Carmichael]

And like worst case, you don't publish the content. That goes really off the rails. But they know going in, it's not like it's a random thing that, hey, would you mind filming this? They know coming in that it's for a show and why I think it's not great for everybody because a lot of people are actually not great mentors and they're not great leaders and they don't super care about random person on their team. Right. It's just that that's something that you, every time I hear you speak or talk to, you're always talking about somebody on your team. Somebody you're always trying to uplift and elevate the people around you. It's like why you do what you do on top of building a pretty kick ass business. But if that would be fun for you. Now it's like your mentoring team, but in their stories you're also helping. Like that could be disseminated through the whole company so they can learn from that guy's story too. While also building content for the brand, but also helps the culture. Like, man, if that's the boss of this company, I want to go work for that guy.

[Tommy Mello]

You know, it's funny, I walked in, my sales director, his name is Matt Fink, coolest dude ever. And he puts his hands on his face. He goes, dude, I'm drowning. And I didn't realize it. Maybe you should have had a guy there filming it. But I said, let's just sit down and talk about it. And I said, what's going on, dude? And he's like, dude, this department, I'm working really hard, but there's like, we're losing $5 million. And I said, well, here's the best advice. Eliminate automate and delegate. Good is better than perfect. And I just went into it and I said, dude, let's talk through this. And I'm like, let me help you, because you seem like you're suffocating. Yeah. And this isn't that big of an issue. And you know, first let's get some time back. And. And he's like, dude. And then he texts me. He's like, dude, I feel so much better. He's like, thank you for the time. But those little magic moments and I truly do care. I'm like, dude, you know, I'm not, I don't have all the answers. I like to ask great questions, but I've been through some. So, like, if I've been through something, I'm like, man, you don't need to reinvent the wheel. You might throw new tires on it. But let's have a conversation here.

[Evan Carmichael]

It's a worth. It's at least worth having a go at it where you have office hours that you. You option one on ones open to the company that they know is going to be filmed, that the whole point is not to make them look bad, but to support them. And also for other people who are stuck in similar situations that they can learn from, you use them as like a success story, right? Like, hey, I want to see you win. I'm now more invested in your success because the stuff you just said is not that meaningful. In the repeat of the story. Eliminate Automate delegate. Okay. Buy back your time. Okay. Dan Martell. It's like, it's timeless stuff, but without the story, it's kind of boring. Yeah, but if you're there sitting, what those guys aren't doing is, like, they're sitting across from you with this guy's story. And you know, you've known him for however long, and you know that he's gone through addiction or rehab or jail or whatever. Like, you sit there and actually care about the guy. And then you see the impact of the advice you're giving. Because eliminated Automate delegate is genius. And just, like, I get to see the story unfold with the guys now. He comes in, he's all stressed out, overwhelmed, and then he spends 15 minutes, or I don't. Whatever, however long with you. And then he's feeling relaxed all of a sudden, and you're cheering him up. You're motivating him. And now he's got a game plan and hope and belief that he can go and solve that problem.

[Tommy Mello]

I think a lot of it is just too talking out loud. And a lot of people, when they talk out loud, they're like, I think I know the answer. But a lot of us, like, I talk to myself. Cause every once in a while, I need to talk to an expert. So I talk to myself.

[Evan Carmichael]

Right? But, like, I'm kidding. No, no, no, no, no.

[Tommy Mello]

But.

[Evan Carmichael]

So here's your genius is, like, the advice is great too, right? Like, there's nothing wrong with the advice, but it's like, you're giving space for people. That's what's different. Like, a lot of times when people come in and they just say, hey, I have this problem, most of the bosses, like, here's what you do. Go solve it. You're actually giving space for the person to breathe and explain their challenge, and you're Gonna listen to them as a human. I think that's one of the things that makes you as much of a fast moving talker, extrovert personality that you are. You're actually a great listener, and you give space for people to explain, which is a rare combination. Right. And so you just do that naturally. But being able to capture that on camera and show, that's why this is such a great place to work.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah, no, it's. It's great advice. It's something I'm gonna really focus on taking good notes.

[Evan Carmichael]

It's just office hours. Like, pick. Pick one Monday every month, and you have your morning, your afternoon, and you can. People can nominate, like, who gets to come and meet Tommy and share their challenges, and you help them out and whatever the most. Like, you could start in here if you want, but then you'll. You'll figure out a more natural setting for people to go and help them.

[Tommy Mello]

Yep.

[Evan Carmichael]

Like, you ever watch this Undercover Boss? Right. It's kind of like that. But, like, you don't get the sense that a lot of those guys actually care. You know, like that part at the end where they're like, and here's $25,000

[Tommy Mello]

for your scholarship or whatever.

[Evan Carmichael]

Right. It's like, okay. I mean, it's good, but it feels more like for show. Right. Where for you, you actually deeply care. Not that you have to go undercover because everybody would recognize you.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Evan Carmichael]

But like, the actual caring for team and helping them through. Like, what I love about you is you help people through not just their business problems. Like, you've changed people's lives here.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah. I mean, look, they changed my life, so.

[Evan Carmichael]

Sure. Okay.

[Tommy Mello]

But.

[Evan Carmichael]

Yes. Right. But now's not the time to be humble. Right. It's like, that's a golden opportunity for not just you and your content, but for the business to get even more people into a one, but also to show a different way of operating. Like, for America to say, hey, here's. You're running a family business with 1400 people or 14,000. What did you say?

[Tommy Mello]

1400.

[Evan Carmichael]

14. But so, like, you run it like it's a. There's four people in the business. Right?

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Evan Carmichael]

Which, like that. People lose that structure and culture when they start to really grow. Right. And you've. You've found some. It's hard to do.

[Tommy Mello]

It's hard to do. And it gets harder when you add every hundred people. Gets harder. So I had to build some software around it just to keep track of birthdays, anniversaries, top performers, bad days. And I Don't call people out. I try to call them up. I try to say, hey, listen, I care about you. I know your family, and I know they're counting on you. And I don't think I'm a good enough. I'm not being a great enough leader. And if I can't give you feedback, no one can. And the people I respected the most, my coaches. I respected them. And they could tell me the truth. And they told me, you're not going to play in the game unless you get good grades. The. The best coaches made sure I got a warm milk because mom was working three jobs, and that's what I. That's what I do. And they were strong enough to have a hard conversation. And I always want to give props and attaboys, but I also want to call guys up and say, hey, man, what's going on? What could I help you with? Where am I failing? What training do you need? What could I do to inspire you? Because you and your family deserve this. And I think those are the better calls. And when someone goes, I didn't even know you cared. And it's never been about your performance. And KPIs aren't dialed in. It's like, I know you're capable of more.

[Evan Carmichael]

So if you think about, like, now you have your team. Right. Awesome. Like, you don't need to think about a show. All you need to think about is you being Tommy Mello.

[Tommy Mello]

Right.

[Evan Carmichael]

You're gonna show up, somebody's gonna come with a problem, you're gonna do. You don't even need to put on some kind of weird hat to help them. You're just gonna help them. Cause that's what you do.

[Tommy Mello]

Yep.

[Evan Carmichael]

But if you think about, like, American Idol.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Evan Carmichael]

Before somebody comes on and performs, you hear their backstory.

[Tommy Mello]

Yep.

[Evan Carmichael]

Right. Why they do what they do, why they're here, why it means so much to them. Yada, yada, yada. Then they come out and perform.

[Tommy Mello]

That's really good content. I like that idea.

[Evan Carmichael]

Right. But so, like, the performance is the one on one with you, but the backstory is on team to go capture.

[Tommy Mello]

Yep.

[Evan Carmichael]

How long you been here? Like, when you tell the story about your mom.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Evan Carmichael]

And how she was, like, the first person picking up the phones and, like, saying how gassing you up all the time. Right.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Evan Carmichael]

Capturing the backstory, why they're here, what they hope to learn from you, how they found a one, what they've learned since they've joined, like, what their main question is for you and why, like, what do they like, the more they do, the better they get at the questions. But you're trying to get, like, capture the actual human spirit behind a one, and then the actual American performance is the one on one with you, and then capture the after. Right? Like, okay, what did Tommy say? Was it valuable? What are you gonna go do? And maybe even follow up? Yeah, maybe three, two months later. But none of that needs you, right? Then that's team. Like, you don't. If you wanna follow up, you can. But it's like, hey, Tommy told you to do this, and now your guy's overwhelmed, and now three weeks later, he's crushing it. Right? Like, those are the cool stories.

[Tommy Mello]

It is a cool story. And I'm gonna have these guys listen to this podcast.

[Evan Carmichael]

Wait, aren't they right there?

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah. Colin's here. Let me go back to young Evan. You struggled in school. You even saw a child psychologist at 8. How did those early years kind of shape your identity?

[Evan Carmichael]

So I had an undiagnosed hearing problem, and I thought it was stupid. So in school, and I think all entrepreneurs really, we kind of struggle in school and structure and systems. But. But they didn't know that I had a hearing problem. And I would, in, like, kindergarten, just sit under my desk because I couldn't hear the teacher. And they thought it was just, like, super stupid. So, like, okay, let the dumb kid sit under the. Sit under his desk. Right? Anyway, we've got my hearing issue fixed. Later on, I started to learn, but I've always been, like, growing up, I was introverted and scared and still am. Like, I don't actually crave the spotlight. I don't enjoy speaking to Speak. The biggest fight I got into with my agent was like, you got to be famous. I don't want to be famous. I have no interest in fame. It's not exciting for me at all. I'd rather just stay home and work on stuff. I'm a tinkerer. But then people don't learn, and the message doesn't get out there. It's like when I said, now's not the time to be humble. Right. It's like, no. Now's the time to actually say, no. America needs this.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Evan Carmichael]

Right? Not that, like, you're learning from them.

[Tommy Mello]

Cool.

[Evan Carmichael]

But, like, America needs to learn from you, and they're not yet. Right. And it's like, how do we blow this thing up?

[Tommy Mello]

You, your parents, just like mine, said you could do anything you put your heart into. You're gonna make it. You're a good guy. Like, we believe in you. How powerful is that reinforcement in the moments where you didn't even believe in yourself?

[Evan Carmichael]

Yeah, I used to have this conversation. So my two sisters always got straight A's and I was like the B and C student. I wasn't failing out of school with like B's and C's. When my sisters all got straight A's and every report card, I'd have the conversation, I'd the talk, go to my parents room, sit on the bed, have the talk about my grades and how they were expectations, but they never made me force me to do anything. But the only thing I remember was they would always tell me, you're Evan Khashrili Carmichael. You can do anything you believe that you can. So my mom's last name is Kostrili. My middle name is Kostrili. She was born in Italy, came to Canada. So you're Evan Castrilli. Karmical. You can do anything that you believe that you can. And that still just, even now, just sticks with me. And sometimes you have to borrow belief, right? Like when you don't believe in yourself enough to do the thing, you have to borrow belief from somebody else. Right. And so I borrowed the belief from my parents. If you go to my, my home office, it's like there's five pictures of people on the wall and like the one in the middle is me and my parents, where I'm like 8 or 9 years old and they're on the other side of me. It's just a reminder. They're not entrepreneurs. They're the least entrepreneurial people like you're ever gonna meet. But it's the belief in me that they instilled. And so same thing of what you're doing. Why do people love working with you? Well, because when they don't believe in themselves, they're borrowing your belief in them 100%.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah. Borrowed belief is a strong, strong thought.

[Evan Carmichael]

So we get that from our parents, right? Yeah, you might get that from books. You got some nice books there on the side. You might get that from YouTube. All the best teachers are on YouTub now. Somebody's watching this video, they hear your story. It shatters some of the excuses like, oh, I can't make it. Yeah, but did you see what Tommy did? Yeah, right.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Evan Carmichael]

Right. Because you're not supposed to be here, right? Yeah. You look at where you were like 15 years ago to say you'd be here. It's like, that's impossible. Yeah, you would say. It's like to yourself, it's impossible. And yet you're here. So you've already proved to be an impossibility to yourself. Imagine what you can do for the world.

[Tommy Mello]

100%. Your secondary school teacher, Ms. Farr, became a turning point for your high school. What did she do differently that unlocked your potential?

[Evan Carmichael]

Yeah, she was my French teacher. So not even a very valuable, useful skill. I haven't used French since I left high school, but she just again, believed in me. We met every week outside the staff room and she just chatted with me. And as the shy kid without a ton of friends and just not talking very much, she just gave me similar to what you do with your team. She just gave me space to share. Like, oh, this person with authority who's a teacher wants to hear what I have to say and what's on my mind and what's going on. And it was more that she just, she gave me space to talk and she listened and she believed in me and she was along with my parents, you know, that last year I ended up getting straight 90s in school. Not that that really means anything in the entrepreneur world, but it was just a shift. It's like, okay, if all these people believe in me, maybe I can do something more than what I'm doing right now.

[Tommy Mello]

Really awesome. A few repeat questions I ask every single person on this podcast. What's one piece of game changing advice that you wish you knew in your 20s?

[Evan Carmichael]

It's the same advice I'd give to myself probably now, which is believe more. Right? Yeah, like, imagine if you believed more in yourself in your 20s.

[Tommy Mello]

Jesus. Yeah, I mean, I guess my dad, you know, my mom did the same thing. My mom was always like, tommy, she just gave me the love. She's like, I'm gonna love you. She's like, just do what you do. I mean, I was in dance class, gymnastics, karate. I played every sport. I was in drums, guitar, violin, piano. I played the trumpet. Like, she's like, just keep going. Like, find something you love. And she's like, either way, I'm by your side.

[Evan Carmichael]

What would you tell 20 year old Tommy?

[Tommy Mello]

You know, I had this question asked recently and the only thing I could come up with is, you don't have to be the smartest guy in the room. There's people that are specialists that could run circles around you. And when you learn to hang out with people, you have a common future versus a common past. Everything will change.

[Evan Carmichael]

Right? So, you know, I used to hate that question. Not that I hate it. It's just like, I can't go back and talk to 20 year old Evan. So who cares, right? It's not practical.

[Tommy Mello]

There is some 20s, there is some people that listen that really love this podcast that are in their 20s. And I think that's where the advantage is.

[Evan Carmichael]

Got it. But where it actually is practical is if you take that piece of advice of like, hey, you don't have to be the smartest person in the room. 80 year old Tommy Melo would tell you the same thing right now.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah, no, it's continued in life. Like he said, same thing I'll tell myself right now. Yeah.

[Evan Carmichael]

Which then is actually extremely practical.

[Tommy Mello]

Right.

[Evan Carmichael]

It's like because you're doing, because everybody would tell you you're already doing it, man. Like you're, you're interviewing billionaires. You're hanging like you're, you're surrounding yourself with people way smarter than you. But 80 year old Tommy is not impressed by what you're doing right now. Right?

[Tommy Mello]

It's like, bro, no, 80 year old Tommy would say, dude, it's time to start a family. You're 42. So I'm getting married in January.

[Evan Carmichael]

There you go.

[Tommy Mello]

They're going to say, look, you could have all the money, be the home service millionaire, you could be the mansions you want, but there's nothing more important. You're not. The pain of regret, yeah. Is going to be so much stronger by not having a family, by not being close. But mom and dad aren't going to be around forever. And so like Sunday I made sure I'm like, I didn't feel like it. I was just getting over a really cold, big cold. Bree was super sick and I had to fly out that night and I'm like, I'm going to my dad's to shoot some pool. I'm like. Because I lost a really good friend in a plane accident, his own plane, last week. And he's 47. And my dad, he's 72, man, I'm hoping he's got 30 more years, but I don't know if tomorrow's promise for me especially don't know for them. And that's the scariest thing in the world because my sister's healthy, my brother in law, my niece, my nephews, my parents, I'm super close. And that's something like. And my doggies, I would say if I lost one of them, they're like kids, you know what I mean? But man, that's like, that's a big. Like when I lost my grandma, man, it was like a second mom, but like she got old and she started forgetting and it was like a slow process. It was a little bit easier to deal with. But man, I just can't imagine waking up and being like, man, the regret.

[Evan Carmichael]

Yeah, yeah. Well, I think that's the thing that got me to do the business instead of the investment bank. Like I wanted to be an investment banker. It was my dream in university and then I got the job, but I, I said no to go be an entrepreneur and own 30% of a company where I made 300 bucks a month. Right. But it was hard decision in my life and the thing that pushed me over was Jeff Bezos as his regret minimization framework.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah, we just talked about that today.

[Evan Carmichael]

Right. It's like, okay, he was going to

[Tommy Mello]

leave the investment banking world and he went out and started Amazon.

[Evan Carmichael]

Yeah, yeah. So it's like live life without regrets. So like it's, it's a very useful exercise to think about. Like what were you saying before when you need genius advice, you just talk to yourself.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Evan Carmichael]

I don't know if you use genius, but expert advice, it's like, okay, well hey, you know who's even a better expert than 42 year old Tommy? 80 year old Tommy. Right. Like talk to him and see what he has to say.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah. You know what, here's the thing with guys like me is we get ourselves so busy. We've got great executive assistants, we plan every moment of every day. And now I'm giving myself space and I wouldn't consider myself a big left brain guy, but like a little bit of time like to say like now I'm saying I am statements. And then I just read Atomic habits again with my accountability partners. And one of the biggest takeaways is like, is I'm not going to walk 15,000 steps a day. I'm telling everybody I'm a long distance walker. I'm changing the own Persona of myself. Instead of saying this month I'm going to do 15,000 steps is I'm changing who I am. Yeah. I'm not just going to go on a diet. I'm a healthy person that eats healthy, that cares about myself, that views my body as a temple. And the more I condition myself and the more I change my identity, I don't know why I keep doing this, but it's just.

[Evan Carmichael]

You're moving into a new state.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah, yeah, moving into a new state. But man, that's powerful stuff.

[Evan Carmichael]

Yeah, well, and the thing that like you learn that, but then you go and teach it, which is cool.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah. No, I Try. I try to teach as much as I can. And here's what I've learned to teach. People want to know about the failures. Like I love saying, yeah, I'm an overnight success of two decades. And the first ten years were practice. And I said, listen, guys, what did go wrong can go wrong. I'm the biggest failure in the room. But here's the thing. I kept failing forward and I learned a great lesson in every failure. So if you listen to me, pay attention because it went wrong most of the time, but when it did go right, I mean, I made more failures in a matter of weeks than most people will take the chance of years.

[Evan Carmichael]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

And falling down, just you get back up and it doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. So I'm like, yeah, there were days I had to literally mortgaged my house. The only possession I had, I had to go walk out of a movie theater on a date to go run a job to make payroll. I mean, those are tough circumstances. But actually I look back and I'm like, man, those were the fun days.

[Evan Carmichael]

Yeah. I mean, you don't have to convince me, but believe. I think it's incredibly important. And I think of Dan Sullivan, who's a fellow genius network member, who one of my favorite. He's got lots of quotes. One of my favorite ones is the greatest gift you can give people is your standards. So your standard of trust is higher than other people's and so they learn that from you. Your standard for what a relationship looks like is higher than other people, so they learn that from you. The greatest gift you give people is your standards. But as you're building out your kind of Tommy Mello brand and mellow millionaire and the show and everything, if you think about what if I believe and Grant is 10x and buy back your time is Dan And Mel is 5 second rule. What's the. What's the Tommy Mello? Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

So my second book, pretty nailed it. It's elevate build a business where everybody wins. I mean, I invite my competitors into here, I invite my vendors into here. I think the most important people in my life is my coworkers because when they're winning, my clients are winning, my vendors are winning, and the competition could win. And the last one on my list is my investors because they're great. I love those guys. We talk all the time and I respect the hell out of them, but I don't need anything like I respect them. They ask me great questions. We make decisions together. But when the culture which used to Be a bad word for me. But when the culture is dialed in and people feel appreciated and there's initiatives and they're bought into the Mission in the North Star, everything goes well.

[Evan Carmichael]

What's the name of the book?

[Tommy Mello]

Elevate, Elevate, elevate. Build a business for everybody who wins, just as a different framework. And it's like, dude, you know, we didn't share in this industry. I'm like, come into my shop today. There was 90 companies in here doing a shop tour. And I'm like, guys, I want to show you everything, because if I could do it, you could do it. I was a kid that suffered from adhd, didn't get great grades. I was a class clown. And I'm living proof that if you put your mind to something, and I've always said, I walk into rooms, I look at Jeff Bezos, and that's a. That's an extreme. Elon Musk is an extreme. Donald Trump's an extreme. There's a lot of extremes. But I go, you know, if they can, why can't I? And I've always asked that question, if they can, why can't I? And so I always say, if I can, why can't you?

[Evan Carmichael]

Who in history is the greatest elevator for you?

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah, that elevates. That's a good question. You know, I really respect is Tony Robbins, because he. He does. He gets you to change the frame. He's the best frame shifter ever. And, you know, the best people I've ever worked with got me to switch my frame, like Dan Martell said. I told him, there's no way I'm going to hire a driver. I'm not that, like, dude, I'm not showing up to work with a driver. He goes, you say you love your people. And I'm like, what does that have to do with this? Because you get 12 hours back a week. He goes, you'd be stupid not to. Do you love to drive? Well, not really. I mean, I just do it subconsciously. He goes, 12 hours back a week. What would that mean to you and the people around you? And I said, I'm not hiring a chef. He goes, what do you like to cook? And I said, uber eats. And he said, what if you were healthy and what if you ate the best meals and what if you showed up more energetic? He goes, it's not a money thing. And I love that Tony Robbins. And I don't think Dan's like a Tony Robbins, but just this frame reset of, like, I was looking out of the wrong Window. And they got me to look at it in a whole different perspective to say, I'd be an idiot not to, but who elevates?

[Evan Carmichael]

Like, I mean Tony's great and you mentioned, you know, Bezos and Trump and whatever, but who actually what you're doing, where you open up your doors to your competitors, where you love coming in and still doing orientation when like, you don't have to do that anymore, but you do it because you love it. Who is the greatest elevator of their team that you look up to and respect from a historical context?

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah, no, it's a great question. I haven't put much thought into who exactly. I mean there's a lot of great companies out there and none of them that come to mind do a great job. Like, I don't think everybody at Amazon would say Jeff Bezos. I don't think Apple, they would say Steve Jobs.

[Evan Carmichael]

Sure.

[Tommy Mello]

I think Jack Walts was an amazing leader and he was very involved and he listened well and he had a mentality of we're going to get new people in here, but everybody's going to know the score. There's been a lot of leaderships in there, but I don't know necessarily have been following somebody's tracks. I'm trying to do something that I

[Evan Carmichael]

believe and not necessarily follow somebody's tracks. It's just like, hey, this person's an inspiration, you know?

[Tommy Mello]

You know, it's a great question and this is thought provoking and it's somebody that. It's something that I need to do more deep thinking about and I'd rather not give you a half assed answer and actually do some deep thinking and say, I'm not really sure, but it's a great thing to start thinking about.

[Evan Carmichael]

Yeah. I mean it could be. Jesus. I mean, I don't know.

[Tommy Mello]

Well, that's the ultimate.

[Evan Carmichael]

Yeah, raise your disciples. But I mean Jack was great with the CEO factory, right? Like he trained CEOs that if they didn't get it through GE, the number of CEOs that left GE to go be CEO somewhere else because he made a systemized way of, okay, as you're on your way up, you are going to sit in another divisions. Like you're not just doing sales, you're also going to go out and understand how the trucks roll. And he purposely put people on leadership tracks to understand how the entire company worked. So that's why GE under him was known as the CEO factory because he was the best at training leaders. So many CEO future CEOs of different companies came out of Jack Welch because he designed a program around it. That's where, like, if you, you know, like, that could be something cool for you. But just in general, I mean, it's fantastic what you've done, just from your own intuition and trying.

[Tommy Mello]

I mean, I ripped off and duplicated a lot of stuff. I mean, I got a lot of ideas. I mean, I read a lot of books, and sometimes, Evan, I don't even know what's mine. Like, sometimes I thought that was like. And I'm like, I might have read this, but I think, like, I've came up with this thought. I'm the best I've ever been, but the worst I'll ever be. Because tomorrow I'm going to be a little bit better. But there might be a chance it's my subconscious. And I read it somewhere. I can't really make out for sure if that's my own.

[Evan Carmichael]

I've heard that before.

[Tommy Mello]

Well, maybe you heard it from me.

[Evan Carmichael]

Yeah, exactly.

[Tommy Mello]

In your book Built to Serve, you introduce the who, why, how framework. What happened in your own life that helped you kind of write this book for people?

[Evan Carmichael]

I think humans are built to serve. I saw a lot of people struggling. If you're not happy, it's because you're not serving. Just, period. If you woke up every day and this is what you do here at A1, it's like, if you gave people purpose every day, they're going to be a lot better. Parents, spouses, people of society. If you woke up every day and felt like the work you did was meaningful, you're going to be a lot happier, a lot healthier, everything positive. But if you woke up every day and felt like today doesn't matter, nobody cares. That's the path down to anxiety, depression, drugs, suicide, jail, all of it. And some people want to serve. Like you. And I want to serve the world. Big ambitions, big missions, help a lot of people. And some people, like my wife, she wants to serve, too, but just like the 50 closest people to her, right? She's the glue for our families. Like, our combined families. She's the glue, right? I'll forget stuff, but she's on it now.

[Tommy Mello]

That's Bri.

[Evan Carmichael]

But everybody wants to serve. Like, we. We are. We are we. It's. They did functional MRIs in people's brains. It, like, hits the same part of your brain as having food and having sex is serving people. So if you're not happy, it's because you're not serving. So we all have our different ways of doing it and you can do little microwaves. Like if you hold the door for somebody, you buy a coffee for somebody, whatever, that's a little micro win. But when. When I say your purpose comes to your pain when you see somebody who is struggling with the thing that you struggled with and then you help them through it. Like you've seen the guys come up through your program and like the radical life changes they make that hits so

[Tommy Mello]

much, it's better than having a record day is like watching somebody.

[Evan Carmichael]

Right?

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Evan Carmichael]

And so like imagine you get to do that every day now because you have such a big team. Yeah, Right. But even on a micro scale, if people can connect to service somehow, like, it's not about you. Like making this show is not about you. It's about who's watching this and what they're going to learn from it. Right. Writing your book is not about you saying, hey, look, I'm an author. Look at me. Boost my ego. It's about who can read that book and change their life because of it. Because you've read books that changed your life, Right. Now you get to pay it back.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah, pay it forward. You know, a book is. It was interesting, my first book, the Home Service Millionaire. I don't know if this was your case, the first book, but good is never good enough. It's like I just thought about it was like it was never gonna get finished. It was like I wanted to make it into this masterpiece. And the second book I just flew through and the third book I got a lot to say, but I'm really going into with this wireframes of exactly how I'm going to do it. It's not chatgpt, it's all me. And I've learned the best thing in the world, and I'm sure you could attest to this is stories and amazing personal descriptive storytelling. Because I'll tell you this, as human beings, we remember stories way more than we could remember statistics or facts or even anything in a book that's not a story. So the next book I'm writing will be mostly involved with stories. There's another book I'm writing called Pay Them what they're Worth that explains how to give equity to people. Because it's a very difficult thing, but I think done correctly, it allows a lot more people to win. But yeah, writing a book is. I think everybody should try to write a book. I don't care. You don't have to have a whole lot of success and money to write a book. Just find something you love. You can write a book about butterflies. Yeah.

[Evan Carmichael]

I mean the easiest advice for it in a book is just write to your younger self.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah, I like that. I've heard that before. But that's really good advice.

[Evan Carmichael]

Right. It's like a lot of people don't say, a lot of people don't feel like they have anything that is inside them that is worth sharing. Like, hey, I've got nothing to say. I don't know who wants to listen to me. But you know, who would you like that?

[Tommy Mello]

Dear Tommy.

[Evan Carmichael]

Dear Tommy. Yeah, but that's how a lot of books, because you know, you could talk to younger you, right. So like with some of my clients who like a park bench exercise. Like imagine you have five minutes with younger you at a park bench, right? Like you're gonna go back and there's you, there's you at 25 or whatever. You have five minutes to sit with that person and say something and you just go back to a time in your life where you were overwhelmed and struggling and like you're walking out on your date to take a job because you're not gonna make payroll. Like whatever life challenges you've got.

[Tommy Mello]

Don't drink and drive when you're 26.

[Evan Carmichael]

Yeah, right. So like the thing is, 26 year old Tommy, this is where at least I get, I think is powerful. 26 year old Tommy who's like drinking and driving, won't listen to anybody.

[Tommy Mello]

That's the hard part too.

[Evan Carmichael]

Yeah. But here's the thing, right? Like 26 year old Tommy doesn't want to listen. He's not listening to Tony Robbins, he's not listening to any of these guys.

[Tommy Mello]

But he would have listened to me.

[Evan Carmichael]

But that's the thing. Like you now 42 Tommy can go to 26 and you actually could break through.

[Tommy Mello]

I'd have been like, ask me any question because I got all the answers.

[Evan Carmichael]

But 26 year old Tommy doesn't even want to ask a question. But you could break through in a way that Tony or anybody else couldn't. And so then it's under. So like that we got a lot in common. Exactly. But it feels like that is a reasonable assumption, Right? Like if you're talking to somebody, hey, your book may not change the world, but could you break through the 26 year old you in a way that other people can't? And it's a reasonable assumption. Yeah. I could say something to 26 year old me that that person wasn't going to read books or listen to Tony Robbins or anybody else, but he would Listen to me. I could break through to him. Great. There's a million people right now who are 26 year old Tommy right now. And they're not going to learn from those other guys, but they listen to you.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Evan Carmichael]

So write your book for 26 year old Tommy because there's a million of them right there who need that help.

[Tommy Mello]

I try to put myself in the perspective of you when I talk to you and how are you viewing me and do you understand I'm trying to come to you with a positive. The best people in my life, they told me what I needed to hear, when I needed to hear it. They didn't shield me from it. I feel bad for Bree, my parents, my brother in law, the people that are closest, my co op, but my team around me because they hear everything. They hear all of it. And so they get like 10 times the feedback and then other people don't get enough.

[Evan Carmichael]

What's interesting though is like that is a. You know, I've talked to a lot of different entrepreneurs and studied a lot of stories and like I haven't heard anybody say that, that I shield myself from the bad news so that I can be happy walking into the office every day. Right? Like those are some of the things that are unique that then are teachable. So that guy who asked you the question at the 90 person event as well, like maybe yes, pare down, be more cash flow instead of just being 12 million and hating your life. But also maybe you just need somebody to shield you from the bad news so you can walk in happy and have more energy and continue to grow.

[Tommy Mello]

You get beat down, we're not going to make payroll. We just lost some inventory. A guy got in an accident. And yet there's so many good things going on. And if I'm the declarer of good news all the time, man, you'll watch the culture turn so quickly. Like, I had a gal that works for hsf, the Home Service Freedom group. And I looked at her and this is unlike me, but it's something I'm trying to really flex, like make this muscle strong. Is I go, brit, you look fricking amazing. She's like, I'm down £40 and she's got the biggest smile. I was like, congratulations. Like, wow, like you're really taking care of yourself. And I can't tell you, Evan, how good that made me feel. And before, I was never like the first person to give compliments. Like I never got a lot of them growing up. Don't get me wrong, my parents did but now I'm like, how many more compliments can I give? Now I'm like. And one of my managers in Vegas, he keeps 10 pennies, and he transfers the pennies to the other pocket, but it's got to be 10 compliments. Yeah. And it's a good methodology. Yeah. And I can't tell you, you know, for the listeners, like, it makes you feel really good. You don't need anything in return. You don't need a compliment back, but you just give to give, like, a little. Andrea was out of town a couple of weeks ago, and I just wrote, I miss you. You're super special. The place isn't the same without you. And I just put it on her computer, and she came back and she just gave me a big hug. She's like, I love that message. It was free, didn't cost a thing. But it made me feel good because it was true.

[Evan Carmichael]

I think what's really awesome is when you can dive into the specifics behind it. Because a lot of the things if you say, eliminate, automate, delegate. Okay, cool. That makes sense. But it's like, it's smart. But then how do you actually do it?

[Tommy Mello]

What's a use case? Right.

[Evan Carmichael]

And you probably have tons, but maybe haven't documented it in a way that is shareable for other people. Because what you just said here, you could just say, yeah, relationships and trust and be grateful for your team. And, like, that's something a lot of leaders would say.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Evan Carmichael]

But then how you do it, whether it's the pennies, then that's you, that's your guy. But still. Or writing the letters or like, I am trying to give compliments like this every day. Whatever the habits are that allow you to operate how you operate, that's very instructional. So there's the mindset and belief system around it, which is cool. But then, like, what are you actually doing every day? Which may take some thinking, because you're just doing it. It doesn't seem anything special, but it's actually very weird, very different. And imagine if every company in America operated that way.

[Tommy Mello]

Another interesting thing that I think you'll really enjoy is I called 10 technicians that I knew were always winning, and they always had great news. And I always say in orientation, if you've got great news, I want you to text me. I want you to call me. If you got bad news, call Luke. And so they would text me all the time. Like, went to a $29 tune up yesterday, sold a full view, 35,000. So I started screenshot I built this little software internally, and now I send it to every technician with a little caption like, see what could happen when you. When you don't judge the job before you go or whatever. Like, I'm so proud of this guy. And now I'm getting dozens of text messages a day that they want to get shared. And the only thing that I could tell you, this is not a behavior I planned on everyone else doing, but they wanted to get recognized, right? And now it's like, now they're hearing all the good news all the time. I've never sent a message out, man, you guys are really shit in the bed, or, man, you guys really suck at this. Mine's always good news.

[Evan Carmichael]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

Especially if Tommy's sending out a message. It's going to be great news. There's one thing I do if you're not driving safe, that I'll send out the message like, guys, we got to drive safe. The truck weighs 7,000 pounds. I just want you to be safe for you and your family and the other pedestrians out there. But other than that, like. But it's crazy what happens. And all of a sudden, the whole place lifts up, and it's like, hey, they could do it. I could do it, too. And you're just sharing. I share probably six or seven of these messages a week. Sometimes 10, and on Thursday, about 20 more of them. And it's just crazy. What's starting to happen is your watch performance just completely increased dramatically. You'll watch them take more money home. One of the things I say is dream bigger. They're like, I want to go to Disney World. I'm like, no, no, no. You need to go first class. You need to stay in the penthouse, and you need to cut all the lines. Little bit bigger dream, because you deserve it. And, like, I really mean that. Some of These guys make $300,000 a year. Some of them make more than I do. And I love that. And I don't get mad about it. I like, dude, that's fricking awesome.

[Evan Carmichael]

It's a great example. Like, everybody's gonna say, culture, culture, culture, but now you're explaining how to actually do it. That's, again, very tactical thing that I haven't heard before. The closest I can think of is the guy who started Kinko's. Paul, or Faily, I think is his name. He had add, couldn't stay in his office, Hated just managing from his office. So he went out to all the different Kinkos. And what he would do is every day he'd go to different kinkos. He'd manage from the field. He's never in the office. Can't be in the office. He managed from the field, go to different kinkos each time. And he would make a point of. At every Kinko's that he went to, he'd find something that that store was doing better than other people. And this is back in the day was no Internet. But he would then call into a voicemail and leave a voicemail on what was so special about this location, what he loved about the manager, that then all the other managers across the country could call into every day and hear the voicemail that he left. I love that about that location. Right. Technology is way better now. But he managed from the field, where every day he's going out to a different location and making a point to find something that was great about that location. Because even though they're like franchise, whatever, there's still differences in how they show up. So it could just be as simple as, I was greeted with the biggest smile ever by the front staff when I walked into this place, or they did an exceptional job of making the floor spotless or whatever, and he would just leave that voicemail every day. And then the team would just call in and get their voicemail. It was opt in. It wasn't pushed on them. You had to call in to get the voicemail. But the managers who really grew and wanted to learn listened to his. He just operated from the field every day, and all it did was just

[Tommy Mello]

highlight what they catch him doing something right.

[Evan Carmichael]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

So many managers and leaders were there to catch people doing something wrong.

[Evan Carmichael]

Right.

[Tommy Mello]

And what if you catch them doing something right? Like, if my mom caught me doing something right, she'd say, tommy, you know how special you are. I cannot believe you made your own bed, you know, just for that. And she used to give me these great big red apples, and, man, every day I started making my bed because she was so proud of me. So when you catch somebody doing something right, it's like I'm actually trying to endorse that behavior. And I think so many times we like to catch people doing something wrong. And that's just not who I am. Like, yeah, I could find a problem with anybody.

[Evan Carmichael]

Yeah, I don't think we like to catch it. I think it's just human nature. We look at problems more than wins, especially as entrepreneurs, where we're hardest on ourselves and we see all the problems in our own life and everything as opposed to what's going well. But I think even That's a great little. As you've been talking, I'm trying to think. What do we call these things? Melloisms? Tommy Isms? I don't know if you have something

[Tommy Mello]

I didn't know, but.

[Evan Carmichael]

But there's. There's something in there. Like, catch people doing something right? Catch your team doing something right.

[Tommy Mello]

Oh, I like that.

[Evan Carmichael]

I like that. Well, it's your thing, of course.

[Tommy Mello]

No, no, no, no. But, like, I'll give you one more example then I want to ask you more questions. Is I walked into Dustin's office. This guy is a trooper, man. He's in charge of the call center, dispatch center. Such a good family guy. We hang out outside of work. I know his two daughters. I know his wife really, really well. Like, me and her are good friends. And then I got Leanne, our FPA gal. Super hard worker. She is like. She'll be pacing in her office. And I walked into both their offices in the same day, and I'm like, man, your offices suck. In my head, like, you don't even have a picture in here. This is the most mundane, shitty office. So I talked to Ashley. We got a hold of Leanne's husband and Dustin's wife, and we got a picture of their family and framed it, put this awesome picture together and wrapped it up. Actually did the rapping. We gave it to him. And I was like, look, at least remember why you're here and the people that you care the most about. And wasn't a big deal. I wasn't like. But it was just, like, something, and I just love doing it. And I just. And it's not only gifts, you know, there's five languages of the workplace, or five love languages, but everybody's different. But I just really. It's these small things, didn't cost much. I tell people, look, do you ever cook for your people? And they're like, we don't have enough money to cook for the people. Could you afford Bisquick from Costco? Make some pancakes every once in a while. Invite the whole family. Tell them how much you appreciate them. We'll let them break bread together and talk about the wins. People need connection. And one day, Luke came up to me and Brian and Mike and Travis, and they're like, we figured out a way to make an extra $500,000 a month. We're gonna go to one meeting a month. And I'm like, I don't like it. And they floated the idea, and all the technicians called me. They're like, this is our chance. To see each other. This is our chance to catch up. We get to see the leaderboard. We get to catch coffee. And I'm like, we'll get 500 grand a month for three months, and then you'll watch the guys quit and fall off. And it cost a lot of money to replace people, so I'm not going to ever change dollars for culture. And I think people miss that. You know, you studied a lot of titans in your book the top 10 roles for success. You studied Steve Jobs, Warren Buffett, Oprah Winfrey. What surprised you most about highly successful people?

[Evan Carmichael]

They just started and they kept going. Like, it's actually not that complicated. They often came from worse than what you had growing up. Like, you mentioned Oprah, Oprah, Sexual abuse, all sorts of crazy things. Went to go live with her grandmother, grandparents, was so poor that she had no money for clothes. Her grandmother would sew potato bags as her dress. Can you imagine going to school in a potato bag? Like, you think your life is hard or whatever happened to you in high school? You're showing up in school in a potato bag that's just been sewn into a dress. And to go from that to what she ended up creating. People just started and they kept going. Most people don't start. They have all these dreams. Your whole dream. Bigger. They never start. They never get going. They know they have potential.

[Tommy Mello]

Procrastination and a decision.

[Evan Carmichael]

It's always tomorrow. It's always tomorrow. Right. It's like they just don't start, and then they quit as soon as it gets a little tough.

[Tommy Mello]

Even a podcast. I know so many people that have started didn't take off in three months. I don't think I had a listener for the first two years.

[Evan Carmichael]

Most people never start. They have an idea. I mean, I deal with these people all the time, too. It's like they just. Amazing, successful, huge potential that just.

[Tommy Mello]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Evan Carmichael]

One day. One day. Or they start and it doesn't take off and they quit. Right. We're like anything. You have to start and you have to keep going. So a lot of these people, they're no smarter than you. They have a worse background many times than you do. They just started and they kept going.

[Tommy Mello]

Yep. And they dedicated themselves. They built a passion around it, and they were not going to let themselves down. And I got this little bracelet that says, keep your commitment. And I think the strongest commitment, it's hard to keep because, believe it or not, I'm a good liar to myself. Like, Nighttime Tommy says, you're going to wake up at 4:30 and cold plunge and go for a jog. Morning, Tommy. Not so much. So I found accountability partners that I say, you're going to hold my feet to the fire. We're going to meet up, we're going to do this together. Like, I need that, I need commitment from you that you're going to hold me accountable. We're not going to or not. Like, but I got to know your why. Like why do you really want to do this? What's going to cause you not drinking that day? Is it your health? Is it the six pack? Is it that you want to wake up happy the next day? Whatever it is. And so I started working with a team and I'm like internal guys that I really trust that will call me out or just getting going on this. And we read. I'm like, let's just make this easy. Give me three commitments. The first one is we're going to read Atomic Habits. And one guy text me yesterday because I just started. I'm like, we're getting late in the month. But I'm not gonna go hard on you. We're just gonna start to build these little habits and these cues to make us do good stuff. But it's interesting thinking about successful people. Then you meet these billionaires and I've met a lot of billionaires lately. And I'll tell you something, Evan, most of them aren't happy. Most of them, the money didn't bring them what they thought it would. They missed the chase. A lot of them would trade the money back to go back. Not to buy back time and be younger, but just to be back with the purpose, you know, Man's search for meaning. Viktor Frankl what do you think about when people become extremely wealthy? Maybe they don't trust anybody anymore. People are using them. They wonder if there's ulterior motives. But I'm sure you've met some people that had it all and either they committed suicide, got on drugs or just weren't happy.

[Evan Carmichael]

The people who win the hardest usually have the hardest time starting over. They don't want to look bad. They have a hard time starting over. So like for what you're doing, you start, you built a successful company, you got a nine figure business. It's like really hard to then start a YouTube channel and have 40 subscribers now. You have more now, but still that's 7,000 subscribers. Like where you are in the YouTube world is like nothing compared to where you are in business world. And for most people, why did the Hollywood actors not move to YouTube. They don't want to start over. Why do people not switch platforms? Why did the MySpace people not switch to Instagram? They don't want to start over. People don't want to start over. Now, some people break through, right. Some athletes go off and they start to. Ronaldo now became the fastest growing YouTube channel in the world. People do break through and go. But most people don't want to start over. So it's really hard for someone who. You went through the grind. You haven't that whole, like, I had to leave my date to go pay payroll. I don't know when the last time you had to worry about payroll was, but it's like, been a while.

[Tommy Mello]

2015.

[Evan Carmichael]

Right? It's been a while. And, like, it was fun. And, like, you got to show yourself what you're made of, but you also don't want to be there. And circumstances kind of dictated that you were there. But you're not gonna willingly put yourself back there. But starting a YouTube channel is like, you're starting over. And most people don't want to do it. They don't want to start over. But then they miss the climb.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Evan Carmichael]

And they're afraid of what people. People are super worried about what people think about them. And it's not just at the lower end. It's all the way up to the top. They're worried they're going to start something new. Tribalism and fall and fail. And like, ha, ha, look at you, starting over. You suck. And so they don't do it. They don't even try.

[Tommy Mello]

I tend to find myself mostly on Instagram and Facebook. Maybe it's my age, maybe something. I'll go to YouTube when I want to learn something, though. For sure. But depending on where you're at in business, what should you. There's these different platforms, which ones. How do you figure out which one's going to be best for you and your purpose of what you're trying to do?

[Evan Carmichael]

So when I look at a content strategy, first is like, what's the business strategy that you're trying to accomplish? And then how do we map a content strategy to reach it? Because just giving a content strategy without knowing the business goals and strategy doesn't make sense because just be famous is not a great.

[Tommy Mello]

There's a lot of famous people on TikTok that don't matter.

[Evan Carmichael]

It's not a great strategy. Right. So first off, we look at content through the lens of relationships. So you doing. We would call it the Biz Dev show, but you doing A show like this where you bring on people who could be worth eight or nine figures to you and lifetime, like lifetime value of a relationship. A lifetime ltv of the relationship. As a, like, it may be hard to exactly quantify, but anybody watching, who are the people who could be worth six or seven figures to you in client or referral income to you per year? So like these guys building up their garage door services, who are the, who are the top referrals for them besides existing clients?

[Tommy Mello]

Oh, well, look, you know, take for example, a referral is you got some of the best designers in the world. You get a designer that's designing spending $5 million on a wealthy person's house, they're going to replace their garage doors. That's a good referral source.

[Evan Carmichael]

Great.

[Tommy Mello]

So there's a lot of like those type of sources, like referral sources.

[Evan Carmichael]

Right. So if, if you knew the designers referred out to the garage door guys, then it behooves you to get to know all the top designers in your city. What's the best way to get to know them? They don't want to go to lunch with you. They don't want you to pick that brain.

[Tommy Mello]

They'll definitely go on a podcast.

[Evan Carmichael]

They'll go on your show even if nobody is watching this show yet, because they need marketing for themselves too. And so the whole point of the show isn't views. It doesn't matter if people watch it or not. It's just a relationship. Because you're the only garage door guy leading with a give. I want to interview you, I want to tell your story. I want to create some content that I'll put on my brand new channel, but also give to you that you can use on your website and in your marketing. Because all these designers are trying to build their personal brand too. And you lead with a give. And so the whole point of that show is to earn trust and build relationships to grow the business, not to get famous or to get. We don't care who watches the video.

[Tommy Mello]

It's very, it's so contrarian to what most people think. And I've never heard this, but people are like, why did you start a podcast in 2017? I go, because I was selfish and I wanted to learn from people. So I got like, if I had a problem with payroll, four podcasts were a big thing. I get the top person that understood payroll, right? And like, I'd want to understand like this marketing channel and like, I'd get them on and they were like, happy to come on and all Of a sudden. And it's weird. Evan. I'm up to like 500 podcasts for Home Service Expert.

[Evan Carmichael]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

And one out of every 30 to 40 I've hired as a personal consultant. Like Dan Martel came on the day was at Genius Network. I'm like, dude, I think you got some good things. Like, I'd really like to learn. So I extracted what I could and now I'm working with Pat David and Ed Mylett and like, I work with these different people and I extract as much as I can and move on. But it's just interesting because I didn't mean to do what you're saying, but it's kind of happened.

[Evan Carmichael]

Right. That's another angle. Right. That's like I'm trying to learn something. So the easiest way to learn is to bring the expert on and we turn it into a coaching session. For me, we're doing it right now. Giving you content strategy.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah, that was great.

[Evan Carmichael]

But what I'm talking with the Biz Dev show is specifically about I'm trying

[Tommy Mello]

to get referrals and build relationships.

[Evan Carmichael]

Right. So I want. If I'm the garage door guy, I want I make a list of the top 50 designers in my state or my city, just depending on how big the state is, I guess. But in my city or area that if they knew me, liked me, trusted me, could 5 or 10x my business.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah. So then I launched your G100 list.

[Evan Carmichael]

Right. But of referrals. Not just like, I wish I could meet Tony Robbins or whatever.

[Tommy Mello]

No. But yeah. You really think if I got close to this person, they sent me all their business, this would changed my life?

[Evan Carmichael]

Those designers are not. We want people who are in high demand in your industry, but low media demand, nobody's asking them to go on shows.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah, no, that makes sense.

[Evan Carmichael]

But they're in high demand. So low media, you're not going after influencers who are going to look at your view count. It's a brand new show. Who wants to sit there and listen to a designer talk about. Not many people.

[Tommy Mello]

But you don't care about. Why do everybody care about. There's such vanity metrics. I mean, it might not even be your ideal customer. Like they get a 500,000 followers, but I know everyone. That's like a key to get in. And I'm like, whatever.

[Evan Carmichael]

But for some people, the way up, they nobody. Some of these designers have never been interviewed about anything ever. So it's a huge honor to be. You want to hear my story? And now chances are they already Have a number one guy they're sending business to. So the ask isn't. I'd love to be your number one garage. I'd love to be your number two. I'd love to be a second opinion.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Evan Carmichael]

Any deals you got? I'd love to take a look and just see. Maybe we can help with anything. And they might have a deal on the table right now for you.

[Tommy Mello]

It's crazy how that works, isn't it?

[Evan Carmichael]

It's for the ass is to be the number two. Right. So that's the way of using content. Like that's a YouTube show. You need to have a podcast. Right? So like that's content, but we don't care. You are asking more like audience questions, right? Like, where is the audience? They're going to watch this. That's that we don't care about the audience. It's just a relationship. The second content, we usually start here because if we can grow the business

[Tommy Mello]

through content, we can have more money.

[Evan Carmichael]

You're gonna stick with it versus, like, hey, make these 40 videos. Nobody watches them. And then you quit. The second type of content we call buyer breakthrough videos, where this is more for conversion content. So you think about your website, whatever. Everybody has like an FAQ page or whatever. Nobody's gonna read your three lines of text, make a video about it.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Evan Carmichael]

So any FAQ question, what's a common question people ask in garage door?

[Tommy Mello]

Why is my garage door so noisy?

[Evan Carmichael]

Great. Every. Every one of your guys should make their own version of that video that they have on their website. They don't have to be the most like, production quality. Right.

[Tommy Mello]

But have you ever heard of Marcus Sheridan? Maybe they ask, you answer. He's like, when people are asking you questions, you build the answers. And this is how the alarms pick up everything. It's. He wrote a new book called Endless Customers. But it's the whole content strategy of like, when people go to look for these things, you want to be there, you want to be the best. It doesn't need to be a perfect video, but needs to be well described in an easy solution. And I look for stuff all the time.

[Evan Carmichael]

So search is one thing. Right. And that will definitely help. And LLMs love YouTube videos, so that's a whole other thing. But I'm even just talking for conversion for your own. People are already going to your website. And what's the biggest event you. Right. And. And this is the easiest content to make because the average A1 guy knows how to answer that question. How many times have they answered that Question thousands, thousands of times versus if you made him like, okay, I need you to come up with the top eight ways to blank. They're like, I don't know how to do any of that stuff because they're not content creators. But to say, how do I stop my garage from being so noisy? Oh, I can answer that. So they've already answered the question, so it's easier for them to do it on camera. And it's great conversion content for the website. So you look at the top 20 to 40 questions that these guys are asked over and over and over and over again. It lives on the website. So we're not losing people because some people visit the website and never call.

[Tommy Mello]

Right.

[Evan Carmichael]

But now they can see you. If any of them have staff, you may not be able to get a hold of the person right away. So they have support staff, they have receptionists, they have people answering the emails. Whatever that question is, the receptionist knows how to answer that question too. But here's the video of our founder talking about. So they make that video once. Like that question is, does that, does the answer to that question change very often?

[Tommy Mello]

No. No, it doesn't. Great.

[Evan Carmichael]

So like you make that video once and then use it for the next five years. Yeah, that's pretty high leverage. Now we're converting a lot more of our leads to sales, but again, we don't care about how well it lives. That's a YouTube video, but we're not trying to get views. If we get views on that video, cool, it's fine. But the whole point is conversion content to build trust and storytelling with our audience. Because they're coming to the website, they don't know anything about you. Now they're going to learn. And it's high value content because you make it once. You make those top 20 to 40 videos once and then it lives for the next three to five years. Right. So that's usually the starting place for people who already have a business, the Biz Dev show and the buyer breakthrough videos because it generates immediate sales, which is what these guys want. They don't want to be famous and have book deals and travel across the globe talking about garage doors. They want to grow their business. Right, That's. So those are the two places we start from there. Then it's ambitions. Right? Like are you trying to do a book deal? Are you just trying to show up in search when somebody is searching for like your local area? If I gave some blanket rules, like short form content is more inspirational and entertaining. So are you funny? Can you inspire people. Maybe that takes a certain personality to do it. Well, YouTube is going to be more education and buyers. Right? So it just depends on the aspiration of what you're trying to do. So if you have to put information in front of the sale, it's YouTube all day long. It's not the other ones. Can't help. But people are going to learn. YouTube is like, the best teachers are on YouTube.

[Tommy Mello]

You know, I. There's certain. I've had a couple of guys come in and shoot videos where they would change the setting. They asked me a certain question, and these videos went viral. I mean, like crazy. And I just think it's so interesting. And one of them is called Upflip. I don't know if you ever heard of Upflip. Okay, yeah, but. And then I had that guy come ask me hard knock School of hard knocks a year and a half ago. And then he's come out to visit a couple more times. But I'm like, dude, somebody got famous by just stopping people in their cars going, how did you buy this car? What do you do? Yeah, and now that's kind of like there's certain methodologies out there that you could take those exact things and just replicate them. Do you believe in kind of like taking what already works and just making it your own, or do you always say be original?

[Evan Carmichael]

I think those. Like, that's a lot harder thing to scale if you're looking at a one. Right. Like, that's a lot harder thing to scale across the company. It works well for you. And also it's harder to track. Like, it goes viral. Okay, but what did that do for your sales? Right.

[Tommy Mello]

It's very hard to get attribution for stuff like that.

[Evan Carmichael]

Right. But a biz dev show where you're talking to the 50 designers.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah. No, that's really, really smart. Let's start with the end in mind. What's going to grow the business? I love that. Building relationships, building that relationship, giving them their moment, asking them questions, hearing their story. It's like a lot about reciprocity. You know how grown close to is Robert Cialdini?

[Evan Carmichael]

Oh, yeah, he's great.

[Tommy Mello]

Such an amazing guy. Yeah, I love him. And Bobe.

[Evan Carmichael]

Yeah. Another. Another genius member.

[Tommy Mello]

I don't know who Joe hasn't worked with. Even some of the guys that are out. It's like, it's crazy. Joe's like, one day I'm at his house, he's like, who do you want to talk to? I was like, I like to talk. I just Read Rich dad, Poor dad. He's like, oh, I'll just call Robert Kiyosaki. He's like, who do you need to know? He's like, I just want to help. And I love that mentality. Life gives to the giver.

[Evan Carmichael]

So whatever it is that you're trying to accomplish, for you, if culture is important, you want to show what a great place to work A1 is, then back to the top of the show. You have office hours where you are mentioning the team.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah, no, you're right. No, I want to get that. And I think. Tell me what you think about this, because I think this is probably the most inspirational is who really is going to get you to change what you're doing is probably your wife. I mean, you're pretty dedicated. So if she came to you, she said, evan, listen. So, you know, I have a lot of. I've heard hundreds of these stories is, you know, we're at this pinnacle trip in Mexico and they're like, you know, Mike was. He became. He wasn't the guy I married. I married this guy with. So here's the story.

[Evan Carmichael]

Mike wasn't the guy.

[Tommy Mello]

No, no, no, no. So this is coming from the wife of an A1. Okay, got it, got it, got it. So Mike took this job. He was working 70 hours a week. He showed up defeated. You know, it wasn't the dad that really I knew he could be. And this opportunity came, it seemed too good to be true. But, you know, Mike's valued now. He's the husband that I married. We paid off our house, we paid off our cars. He's making it to every soccer practice, he's at every dinner. He's focused, he's got energy, and man, life is good. And I'll tell you, you know, A one got him the opportunity. Now, Mike did the work, but he was at a dead end job. But we didn't even realize it. Doesn't that speak to some people out there that say, man, this guy's working his butt off. He's making $30 an hour trying to get 20 hours overtime. And he's a hard worker, he's dedicated, and he's the guy I love, you know, but you're talking to the woman. And believe it or not, I think the women are in charge of the household. I mean, a lot of the time.

[Evan Carmichael]

So this is where like you just saying that story is okay, but if you actually made something around Mike, where Mike is one of the guys that did the hour on a Monday morning or whatever and got to Chat with you. And it's like maybe it's his first week or he's in his dead end job and he's like excited to come here, but he's like, he's in depression or whatever. But then team is pulling the backstory and talking to the wife and like, what are your dreams and how can we dream bigger and where are you going? And that's like, Mike, how much content

[Tommy Mello]

creators do you need? Like, like how big of a team would you, like, look, I'm talking about if you had the money and you could afford all the resources, what could one team, what does the team look like and what could they get done? Because there's so much opportunity. And this other bracelet says ruthlessly prioritize. Like, what would you say would.

[Evan Carmichael]

So this question gives me PTSD because, you know, Elko is in 100K.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Evan Carmichael]

So like four years ago or whatever, he asked me, if you had all the resources in the world, like, what would you. What would your ideal YouTube team be? And I gave him an answer, like five or six people. But the question was if you had all the reason. If I had all the reasons, I would just buy YouTube, right?

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Evan Carmichael]

It's like thinking bigger. Right. But I was answering the spirit of the question instead of the actual question. You staff for the goal, right? So what are we trying to accomplish? Are you going to do all those backstories? You're going to have Mike come in, you're going to do one Monday a month. You're going to spend three hours mentoring four people who are gonna. However you figure out how they get to you. Right? Okay. So your time is three hours. You could do three hours once a month to mentor team. It's fun to mentor team and you get some great content out of it. Right? Okay. It's all the work around it that then somebody needs to go do a pre interview with Mike to catch his story, to get some B roll. Right? Like, what's Mike's story? And some of the questions.

[Tommy Mello]

Maybe a ride along.

[Evan Carmichael]

Yeah, maybe a ride along. Right. You know, if you're. You asked me some stories about my parents so like I can give you pictures of my parents growing up maybe, right. That kind of stuff. If now the wife's involved, they need to go interview the wife and say, hey, what do you, you know what, Mike's just joining A one. What do you hope that, you know, he's been at this dead end job. What are you hoping he accomplishes here? Right. And then he meets you and you go through the Thing and then there's got to be some follow up like Mike. Now all this thing, all this stuff you said about Mike and how he's completely changed his life around. Imagine if that was then captured and you go see Mike. I don't know how long it's been from what like how long has he been with you?

[Tommy Mello]

Oh yeah, this guy took a couple years. But I mean like the stories, I mean some guys turn it around very quickly. But I've got a guy named Smiley Steven in Wisconsin and this dude's 26, paid off his house, paid off all of his cars, brought two kids into the world and just an animal. And his wife is fricking phenomenal. And the dude is bringing in seven grand a week.

[Evan Carmichael]

Where did he start?

[Tommy Mello]

He started at a dead end job making nothing. I mean he was making 20 bucks an hour.

[Evan Carmichael]

So that's the kind of summary of the story. But how do you.

[Tommy Mello]

There's a lot of details in there.

[Evan Carmichael]

Yeah, I got it. But like what's Smiley Steve, Steven. Steven telling his story. Imagine he comes in, he's not smiling at the beginning, probably because he's in some dead end job and like he hates his life and he's struggling to pay the bills.

[Tommy Mello]

That's powerful. The stories are so powerful. I mean there's so much work I could be doing. It's just going to be prioritizing and putting a plan together and make sure we, we've got efficiency because we could spend a month on that one story.

[Evan Carmichael]

Yeah, but so okay, at the beginning it's not efficient. You can't prematurely optimize. It's going to be messy because you got to figure things out. You got to find the flow.

[Tommy Mello]

We need the right people that are stay organized and build efficiency throughout time, through time.

[Evan Carmichael]

But like anything else, like you can't expect, you didn't have to jump in.

[Tommy Mello]

You got to jump in.

[Evan Carmichael]

You do it. You do your favorite one. You do one like you set next Monday or whatever to set three people that come in and you coach them and then as they're talking, like somebody brings them in before and they do a little pre interview and you do the best you've got with what you have. Go watch American Idol episodes and see the kinds of questions they're asking people.

[Tommy Mello]

Is there anything that you don't want? Like obviously I've got clients too. Right. And I don't want to talk. I love sales and I think we sell the best products and we give options, not ultimatums. And I think our value is far More than our price. But. And it could be controversial. I mean, there's as many haters out there as there are people that like stuff. Right. And do you think any attention's good attention? If I say, look, you're having a really big problem with sales. We're talking about sales. And a client, a homeowner's watching this going, they're teaching their people how to sell. You know, do you think that ever gives a bad rap?

[Evan Carmichael]

I mean, so I would film it and then you can see you still have it. You could be the judge of it. It's not live streaming. Right. But sales is about solving a problem.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah. A lot of people think it's a bad word, though.

[Evan Carmichael]

Well, but, but because a lot of organizations sell in a really scammy way, Tommy. Right. It's like if you're doing it differently, what a chance to actually show how to sell with. With ethics by actually solving the problem. If you can't solve the person's problem, then don't sell them on your service. Right. But if you are actually the best one to solve their problem, you know what their problem is and you're actually best suited to solve a comp, you don't want them going somewhere else because they're going to get ripped off and not get the solution that you need. Right.

[Tommy Mello]

I had my last meeting a couple Thursdays ago. We had a kind of a bitch fest. Like, I said, 10 minutes, I want you guys to put on the board some things you're not happy with. And a lot of the guys said, you know, I feel like we used to really value service. Now we want to sell new doors. And I said, I got up to the top of the front of the room later and I said, guys, you know, the way that I talk to my clients is I say, here's what you need to do. Here's what you should do. And if you were my mom, my mom worked three jobs when I was a kid. I love my mom a lot. She needs to get to the doctors. Here's what I'd be doing for mom. And I say, would you actually go to your mother's house or your grandma's or whoever your favorite person that raised you was and fix that piece of shit? I'm like, would you not think about an insulated door? It's a 15 year old door. It's dented, it's cracked, it's paint oxidized, the trim is falling apart. Yeah, we could fix it. We can make it work. What is that? Or would you rather Give the options and say, why don't you just pick one you'd like? We've got a few options. We could reset the clock, save you on your air conditioning bill, smile of your home, 40% of your curb appeal, number one ROI in the home. And I said, I just believe this. Like, I'm not asking you guys to do anything. But the hard part, Evan, is they know what the parts cost, but they don't really know what it costs to run the company. I'm trying to get my CFO to work with me to kind of explain this, but they go, we would never spend this. This, the cobbler's kids with no shoes, the cleaning lady that's got a messy house. And when you live in an apartment, and by the way, I live in an apartment a long time. I'm just saying you live in an apartment and you don't have a lot of money. It's hard to put yourself in a situation where you would actually spend the money to do something like a new garage door, a new H vac unit, or a brand new roof when my roof right now could be repaired.

[Evan Carmichael]

Right, but so you're not solving a problem.

[Tommy Mello]

Well, they're, they're, they're band aiding the solution.

[Evan Carmichael]

No, no, you're, you're looking at the problem through your lens, not the customer's lens. Yeah, but that's not, that's not solving the problem. That's not sales.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah, and you're right. It's just, it's breaking through to these guys. And once you could break through and help them understand and help them solve it for themselves, because I can't make them believe. But I could give them the tools to show them the perspective, to get them look through a different lens.

[Evan Carmichael]

Right. To your point, about, like people who Tony Robbins or whatever help shift the lens.

[Tommy Mello]

Yes.

[Evan Carmichael]

But also going, how do you show them that these clients, these people who are building a $4 million house or $20 million house or whatever, like they don't want some. A crappy, non insulated whatever garage is a disservice to them. It does not solve their problem. Yeah, you can't look at them through your lens. You have to wear. I mean, we say, don't sell out

[Tommy Mello]

of your own pocket. Just don't sell out of your own pocket. You know, I had a guy come out to replace. He repaired my freezer three times. The fourth time I replaced it, but it cost me about 500 bucks a time. And I'm like, man, I just wish you would offer me a New one to begin with. And I got clients that call up. Why didn't you just offer me a new order to begin with? And I tell these stories all the time so they could understand. Evan, we got to wrap up here, brother. But I want you to give me one book that changed your life.

[Evan Carmichael]

One book that changed my life for our workweek. Tim Ferriss.

[Tommy Mello]

Great book.

[Evan Carmichael]

Yeah, not so much because Tim, it wasn't about working four hours. It was just about not doing anything myself.

[Tommy Mello]

Yep, that was one delegate to elevate.

[Evan Carmichael]

My favorite of all time though is called Radicals and Visionaries. You just can't find it. Thaddeus Waro. It's like a thousand bucks to find a copy. It's out of print and it basically that's what got me through my early journey as an entrepreneur is like it's a story of different famous entrepreneurs every three or four pages. So just read a story a day.

[Tommy Mello]

You have it.

[Evan Carmichael]

I have it. I have my copy.

[Tommy Mello]

You can make a couple copies of it. Maybe if they're not making any money,

[Evan Carmichael]

you could afford the thousand dollar copy on your. You can go get one if you

[Tommy Mello]

want and then close this out. Evan, anything we did, we talked about that was fascinating. You seem to be more of a counselor for me than. Than an interview, which I've got more ideas now that I know what to do with, which is a great sign of a great podcast, but anything you want. The listeners final thoughts, first and foremost, how do they get a hold of you if they want to reach out?

[Evan Carmichael]

Instagram is probably the easiest place. Just DM me on Instagram.

[Tommy Mello]

Evan Carmichael. Get him.

[Evan Carmichael]

Lesson is like, what I love about Tommy is he took a bunch of notes there and he's gonna do something about them. Maybe not all of them, but he's gonna take a couple of things on that list and like tomorrow something's gonna be happening. Like that's the biggest lesson. Like I say, the best teachers on YouTube, you can learn anything you wanna learn. But watching this video is not enough. You gotta take that idea and go do something about it.

[Tommy Mello]

Brilliant, brother. Well, I appreciate you coming in today. You're a blast.

[Evan Carmichael]

Let's go.

[Tommy Mello]

And yeah, than it.