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The Home Service Expert Podcast
The Content Excuse Keeping Home Service Owners Invisible | Gary Vee
00:40:41
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- [00:00]
A
Posting better content helps reset the algorithm. The algorithm is just people. There is no algorithm. It's people's interest in what you're saying. Taking a break and coming back and doing more bad shit isn't going to help you. Most people get into levels of depression because they have a viral moment and do nothing with it. It's the reverse. You don't need a big boulder, you need thousands of little pebbles. Consistently. We all love candy, but if you eat candy for lunch, breakfast and dinner, you will eventually throw up. And so I would say a lot of why I'm is I've consistently stayed protein in a world of candy. And I think in the end, I win.
- [00:38]
B
All right, welcome back. Today is going to be awesome. We've got the one and only Gary Vaynerchuk. He's the founder of VaynerMedia, Vander X V, Friends, Retzy and More. He's got more than nine books, six of them are New York bestsellers. This guy doesn't need an introduction. We've got Gary V. Widely regarded as the original influencer. Gary was listed as Forbes top social influencers in 2017. Since he's built Vander Media into a global powerhouse and been voted a six time New York bestselling author. Pleasure to have you on, man.
- [01:12]
A
Thanks, my man. Happy New Year.
- [01:14]
B
Happy New Year's. Listen, you were born in Belarus and came to America as a child and you started trading cards. You know, let's just talk about the early hustle to get, just get everybody familiar with how you got started.
- [01:30]
A
Yeah, even before trading cards, which was really fifth, sixth, seventh grade, you know, I was, you know, you know, this tone. Like some people are just born for certain things. Like when I see athletes or when I see musicians, you know, back in the day, like a lot of tennis players were like 14 and 15 and winning grand Slams, especially on the female side, these Olympians that are like 12 and winning the gold medal, Like, I was just that person with business. Like, by fourth grade, I was getting D's and F's because I couldn't, I couldn't understand why it mattered. I was so passionate about lemonade stands and washing. Like, if it snowed, I wanted to shovel snow five bucks instead of sledding. If it was 90 degrees out, I wanted to sell lemonade or ring doorbells and wash cars. It was just so in me. And. Yeah, and I just refined that game as a child and then as a teenager. And I've just always been in both business, but also hard work. I think there's some people smarter than me that are like business people, but they're like, they figure out like, let me code this. And like, I've just been in both, like, get dirt under my fingers and grind. I've tried to be smart, but, like, I love the process, I love the practice, I love the late nights. Like, I'm just that person that's process over. Over profits. Even. Like. Like the money has shockingly not been in at some level. The motivator, even as a kid, it was just like more fun for me to create a fake little store in the neighborhood and have people buy things than getting the money. I didn't even want to buy shit. Like, it wasn't even like that. It was just the fucking game. You know what I mean?
- [03:10]
B
Yeah, yeah. So, you know, so the money didn't matter. One of the things I've noticed, you know, right now we employ 1300 people. And the people that came as immigrants, they're relentless. They're not afraid of rejection. They are like, this is the United States of America. Do you think being an immigrant just gave you a one up?
- [03:31]
A
Yeah. And I would say that for a lot of immigrants like myself, you know, because I was born in a shithole. The USSR was a bad place. And then we came here, we were dead fucking broke. So we lived in a shithole in Queens, like New York. Like, I don't think it was it per se. The immigrant, like, I would argue an American born in a trailer park has that same advantage, which is like, when you're from the fucking dirt, you're like, you're a different animal. I mean, it's not complicated. Right? Like, does a zoo animal beat a. Does a lion that grew up in the zoo beat a lion from the jungle? Never. And so, you know, and then I had the tone. I had the best circumstance, which is we didn't have, but we had. My mom filled every room with nothing but love and optimism and joy. So some people grow up in. But the parents are in a place and it's dark, you know? Yeah, I grew up. We didn't have. But we had the most important, which is nurturing love, you know, I just had a monster mother. And so, like, I was destined to be unstoppable because no one was going to with me because my mommy said I'm good. You know, like, it was like, what do you want from me? Like, I'm not going to believe you. My mom said I'm good. My mom said I can you. You know?
- [04:52]
B
Yeah, 100%. I felt like I. I got the most love. If. If literally I got in a car accident and the person that lived. My mom would come out with a shovel. Doesn't have the best back, but she'd be like, let's go ahead and take care of this. If I did go to prison, she'd move next to the prison. I mean, I'm her baby boy. Like, that's it. Like, she's gonna be close. But my dad was relentless. Did your dad have a. Like, competitive, like, no participation trophies? What was your dad. What. What is his claim to how you turned out?
- [05:21]
A
His best claim is word is bond. He really my dad. I don't know what my dad thought. I didn't see him until I was 14. He worked every minute. Like, he showed me how to live a certain life. Not. He didn't tell me my dad wasn't. I didn't have a dad that told me life lessons. My dad showed me life lessons. How to be a man, provide for your family. Fucking your word is what you fucking back up. He was old school like that. He didn't even know what I was doing in sports. I think my dad. This is real. Showed up to one sporting event in my life, and it was. Cause the baseball game was like five minutes from the liquor store, and he popped out. It was huge for me. I mean, I can't even explain to you what it feels like in my body right now. I was shook that he was there. It was that out of character, out of my norm. He woke up and went to work before I woke up, and he came home after I went to bed, and he worked seven days a week. So I didn't fucking see my father until I started working in the liquor store that he had when I was 14. And that's when I really got to know my dad. The next 20 years was all my dad. I was in the liquor store all the time. And he was cynical and, like, different than my mom. But my mom had already laid the foundation, and my dad was able to sprinkle in his things. And, you know, I'm obviously incredibly grateful for my parents.
- [06:41]
B
Yeah. So you started working at your dad's Jersey liquor store and you started the E Commerce giant, the wine Wine, library, tv. What do you think you learned in the process of watching dad and just even before you constantly were thinking about the business?
- [07:01]
A
Well, there was only probably one year of that tone. There was only one year where I wasn't thinking about the business that I saw my dad. It was the first year I worked in the liquor Store. I fucking hated it. You know, I just came, I just came from making actual money. 300 bucks, 600 bucks, 200 bucks, 500 bucks at the malls of New Jersey, selling cards and, and being my own boss at 13 and feeling like a million bucks. And now I'm working my dad's liquor store on the weekends instead and I'm getting paid dollars an hour to bag ice in a dungy basement like I was sloth from goonies with some 17 year old degenerate who hated my father. And I'm bagging ice for 10 hours a day. My pinky's about to fall off because it's so cold in that ice box. I'm like what the is this could give a was in the basement. I hated it. And, and what I learned was like what I didn't want to do. My dad was a dick to his employees. Straight up. He would yell at them. I didn't like it. This was not where's this optimistic rainbows that I was used to with my mom. It was year two when I went upstairs and started stocking shelves where I started thinking about the business because I could watch customers. You know, I was a psycho. I was like watching how they bought what they bought.
- [08:15]
B
Why?
- [08:15]
A
I was 14. Psycho, bro. Like business, like savant. In hindsight it was my norm. I didn't know anything else. But now looking back I'm like, that's just crazy. Like that I was so in that game. And what I learned a lot of things, no question. The thing I learned from my dad was no complaining and hard work. Period. End of story. You know, like did not complain. Like, like it just, it didn't even cross his mind, nor my mother for that matter. Everything was so shitty back in the USSR in the 60s and 70s when they were growing up that the worst things happening in America, like my mom, my grandma got mugged the first week we were in America and we were just happy that like she didn't go to jail for 10 years. Like, like, you know what I mean? It was like, it was like such gratitude of being in America. So you know, it was, it was hard work and discipline and non complaining. I also learned not to eat breakfast and lunch.
- [09:13]
B
Is that still.
- [09:16]
A
Yeah, my dad did not eat breakfast or lunch and I don't eat breakfast for lunch. Like 35 years later. That's been like my framework. All this intermittent fasting that got popular like five years ago. I've been on that ship for 20 years.
- [09:29]
B
Let me ask you this. So this is a. Out of the box question I didn't have written down. But if you got to go, if your dad hired you today and you know your dad, what would you, what would you tell your dad about pricing? Would you tell him raise your prices obviously before the Internet game, because that's what you really revolutionized the business. But if you had to give them a couple tips, what do you think you'd tell them?
- [09:50]
A
Well, if I'm thinking about your audience and all that and what I good news, let me tell you the real story. I started working my Dad's store in 1990. I didn't launch wine library.com until 1997. I made a big impact on my dad's business before the Internet. The Internet obviously took us to the moon. And then wine Library tv. I got wine Internet famous and that took our business to the moon. But the, the, there was several things. First, I was into merchandising. So my father's the first impact I had on my dad was making signs for the store. Like there would just be a box with wine and be like, 4.99. I'm like, no one wants to buy this shit. I'd make a big ass sign and be like, this wine pairs with fucking chicken. And it's better than $10 wines. And all of a sudden we're selling three times as much. I'm like, that was number one. Number two was the customer's always right, even when they're wrong. My dad was very good about customer being right, but my dad's very principled. So if a customer was trying to be cute, he didn't like that shit. And I definitely changed our culture of like that. That's a battle not worth fighting. You cursing out a customer on the floor who's trying, forget about stealing. I'm talking about being cute with a coupon or something. Well, the other customers see that and that's bad for our reputation and that's going to fuck up. So a little bit of that little controlling the emotions. And then the biggest thing, my dad's liquor store was called Shoppers Discount Liquors. We sold beer and liquor. I was very good at listening to the customer. I knew that people wanted to buy more premium wine from us, so I brought in a lot more premium wine. And I also got educated about wine and started really getting wine nerdy. There was more margin in wine than there was in beer and liquor. So really those were some of the big and most of all brother employees. If my dad was on right now and you're like, yo, oh gee, Sasha. That's his name. Sasha. What? What? The kid. Teacher, he would say to treat the employees better. And I don't blame my dad. My dad's not a bad person. Let me tell you, Tony, what was going on? You know, it's like. Like, you know. You know. What was going on, Tommy, was that in Russia, everyone stole because the government owned everything. Tommy. Right? Yeah. So my dad just thought everyone was going to steal in America, too. They didn't. He didn't. Like, you know, like, he just grew up in an environment where employees stole everything. Everything in Russia was the black market. You worked at the butchers. The government owned the butcher store. You would steal some of the meat and try to trade it for some clothes. Everything was scarce, you know?
- [12:23]
B
Yep.
- [12:23]
A
So, you know, my dad's first piece of advice to me the first day I went to the store was keep an eye on the employees they try to steal. That was his first piece of advice to me.
- [12:32]
B
Wow.
- [12:34]
A
So I think I transformed him from seeing the employees as enemies to seeing the employees as teammates.
- [12:41]
B
Very, very valuable lesson. You know, it's funny, I didn't know you were there seven years before the. What did you see about the Internet? Because there's bitcoin right now. There's AI. But you were like. I mean, this is before you even had anything to buy domains, really. It was hard to get a website up in 1997. How did you see that? The World Wide Web. And what was going to happen with it?
- [13:06]
A
You know how, like, some people are, like, talent agents or, like, remember, like, back in the day? How old are you, brother Tommy?
- [13:13]
B
How old are you? 42.
- [13:15]
A
Great. You're a hair underneath me. I'm 50. You might have caught this, but you definitely are probably aware of it. Back in, like, the 70s, like, these a and R guys in music, they'd have to go to a club and, like, catch, you know, guns and roses playing to 50 people and be like, these guys. You know what I mean?
- [13:30]
B
Yeah.
- [13:30]
A
Like someone the next best.
- [13:32]
B
Yeah. Catch them early.
- [13:33]
A
Yeah.
- [13:33]
B
Like a scout.
- [13:34]
A
That's right. Like, exactly, like. And in sports, right, you see, like, a kid and you're like, I see high school. You know, like something. Yeah. So I have that in business. I do. I have it, like, to be dead serious. Here's your answer. In 1995, I went into a dorm room because there was some commotion, and they're like, you gotta see this. And I'd heard of it, like, a little bit, like, on the news or something. The. The World Wide Web, the Information superhighway, bro. I did not own a computer. I was not a tech nerd. Like I wasn't that kid. But I literally watched, literally for the young kids listening, I watched someone go on the Internet on aol. Like I stood behind him on a desktop computer and heard that if you remember, and watched a human go on the Internet. And I was like, what the. You know, like, like quick. Like I was like. And. And then I waited an hour because Everybody got like five, 10 minutes to around and I sat down. This changed my life, brother. I just typed in like buying baseball cards and we didn't even go to the web. We stayed in AOL and I found a bulletin board where people were like, Eric Davis rookie card, nine bucks, like, looking for Don Russ 82. I was like, what is. Like my brain was. And I was like, this is that prodigy shit that some kid told me about a couple of years. Like, this is real. I'm giving you my internal thinking. And bro, 20 minutes later, I swear to God on my kids health, I was like, this is going to change my life. That's it. Like I don't know what else to tell you. I just knew that every fucking person on earth was going to do this shit. And that I had to figure out how to use it for business. And the two things I used it for were the only two things I knew. I found ebay a few months later and started posting and buying and flipping. And I started trying to convince my father that we needed a fucking website for a single store liquor store in New Jersey. And I registered winelibrary.com that was a name I was kicking around with my dad because I wanted to change our store from Shoppers Discount Liquors. And we launched one of the first ecom, one of the first five E commerce wine stores in the country.
- [15:48]
B
Quite the story. You know, I found out about Craigslist early on and that that changed my life forever because I posted 500 ads a day on Craigslist. So.
- [15:58]
A
And you know this, brother. Like hustlers like us, like we find the thing we're not scared to waste. You know what my biggest strength is? I wonder if this is yours, Tommy. And I wonder if for. I want people to hear this. I'm not scared to waste my time even now when it's extremely valuable, bro. I get paid. I'm very honest here. I get paid $350,000 to give a keynote speech for an hour right, right in New York City, which takes me 10 minutes to get to. But I'll sit and spend nine hours on something that might never materialize. Because I know if all I need is one of those things, bitcoin, blockchain, AI social media. I mean, it's happened to me, you know, time and time again. I've wasted many hours to not waste several hours that have changed the course of my life. And everybody out here, brother, that's listening, many of them are scared to waste their time when their fucking time is worthless.
- [16:52]
B
Yeah, well, they'll watch their Netflix and they'll do the. You know, Jeff Bezos said, and this is probably one of the best quotes is in baseball, you could get four runs, but in business, if you hit a home run, you could get 10,000. And so that's basically VCs. You know, you don't hit them all out of the park, but you got to be willing to take the time, meet the people. And what you've learned how to do is recognize winners. And I'm sure real quick for people that you invest in, because you could invest in. Bitcoin is a little bit different. But when you're investing in a business, what do you look for in the person? What kind of traits?
- [17:29]
A
I used to. I run the gamut, you know, Again, I don't know if you're doing video or audio, but these stock certificates above my head, which write those, that's Facebook, Twitter, and Tumblr, they were the first three companies I invested in. I killed it. I like, you know, like, you know, sometimes your first album is your best out actually in music. A lot of times your best albums, your. Your first album is your best album. But, you know, in those scenarios, I looked at the horse and the jockey. So Twitter, Facebook and, And. And Tumblr had already existed when I invested. They were early. First, first little couple, first year, first couple months, first year. So I could see what it was. I could taste it back to like, you know, the Internet thing. And then when I met the kids, Ev Williams, who was Jack Dorsey's partner, he was primary for me. They were really co founders. Mark Zuckerberg obviously went on to be one of the iconic businessmen of all time. And this really brilliant kid, David Karp, the founder of Tumblr, who I would argue understood where social was going. I think TikTok is more Tumblr than it is Facebook. You see interest instead of social. Anyway, all three of them workaholics, you know, ambition. I felt that they could will their way to the other side later, Tommy, because I want to teach people about my mistakes after those three where I loved both the platform and the person. Later I started investing in companies even earlier. So I had to hear a pitch of an idea and judge the kid. I started to overvalue education, which was crazy because I fucking hated school and thought every like it meant nothing. But too many of the startups the kids went to Stanford and Harvard. So I got tricked and so I started overvaluing the college they went to. That was bad. I started overvaluing the idea because I couldn't see the product because they were pitching me the idea. It was early and I thought about how I as a good operator would operate it. But I didn't know how to judge a kid. If they knew how to operate, I could judge their energy, their tenacity, their hopes and dreams. So my chapters for a long time in very early startup Life, early stage, $4 million valuation angel round, that was very, that, that proved to be great because I hit some real home runs, Venmo and other things that nature. But definitely in hindsight was a little bit more guessing than I would like because if I want to gamble, I'll go gamble, right? If I want to invest, I'm now looking for the jockey and the horse and I want to see the horse. Show me your little pony. Like show me it six months. Like now what I need people proven. Yeah, show me. I don't even care. You don't need any success. I need to see it. Okay, right, Like I can't look at the deck anymore. Show me the product six months. I can project if it's going to be different. Netflix was very different when it came out than what it is now. You know, you know, Venmo, I can project, but I need to see it, I need to touch it. And so that's where I'm at as an investor. Now.
- [20:33]
B
Let me ask you a few repeat questions I ask every person that comes on. What's one piece of game changing advice that you wish you knew in your 20s?
- [20:44]
A
It's not advice, it's I wish I knew what my kryptonite was in my 20s so I could fix it. Gary V Tommy. As you can tell on this podcast, he's as a public figure, very canderous, shoots it straight. Gary Vaynerchuk in real life, if I like you, even if I even, I don't even need to love you. If I like you, I struggled with giving you actual feedback because I was scared that you would get scared and get fucked up or like I didn't, I didn't value candor. So I Wish in my twenties, I understood the candor was a gift you were giving to people, not a scare tactic.
- [21:22]
B
Really, really, really wise, you know, feedback. There's a great book, firm feedback in a fragile world. Because very hard to accept feedback. And it's probably the hardest thing about business. But when you get good at it, the world's your oyster. If you had to start over.
- [21:38]
A
We call it internally kind candor.
- [21:41]
B
Kind can.
- [21:41]
A
You know, I have 20. Yeah, 2700 employees at Vayner X at our marketing firm, VaynerMedia, and we call it kind Candor. And it. I've been training it to my team and it's changed our business.
- [21:56]
B
Give me an example.
- [21:59]
A
I, you know this, brother. You're. You're now in your career. A lot of our managers use candor or feedback as an excuse to be a dick face.
- [22:08]
B
Yep.
- [22:09]
A
The end. We have managers, you and I, who have kids that are more talented than them, reporting to them. And the manager is going to suppress them because they're scared they're going to leapfrog them.
- [22:21]
B
Correct.
- [22:22]
A
So if you just call firm feedback or if you just call it candor, well, now you got a fucking problem. Because people are going to weaponize it by calling it kind candor and holding our leaders accountable to it. They know they're getting graded by the people that they're giving feedback as well. And one of the things we ask is, did they have any question? Did the person giving you this feedback show any level of humanity? What does that mean? It means that, you know, it's that old Mary Poppins song. I don't fucking remember it, but it's like little sugar on it. Like, you know, I don't know.
- [22:54]
B
Sugar helps the medicine go down.
- [22:56]
A
That's it. Like, I'm a buyer. Like, like, you know, you're going to have to tell someone that they're. They're on the verge of fire, getting fired or they're not doing a good job, but starting with a little bit of like, hey, brother. And not like fudgeing over coddling bullshit, like just checking the box. Just be a fucking human. Be like, yo, you show up, you're a fucking dude. Like, hey, lady, you're awesome. Like, you got a lot of creativity. But like, hey, these things have to happen. Or like, the calculus is going to, you know, it's sports, you're going to get benched. You're awesome, we love you, but you're going to get benched. And sometimes that's less opportunity, and sometimes, unfortunately, that's getting cut from the team and like. But I think you got to be a human.
- [23:35]
B
I love it. If you had $10 million in your account, that's it, you know, businesses still got your contacts. Where are you putting the money?
- [23:45]
A
So I got 10 million, but I have nothing else.
- [23:47]
B
You have no other businesses, but you still have connections, you still have relationships?
- [23:54]
A
Oh, I'm. I'm starting a business that I'm in charge of. You know, I. I'll decide what I want to sell or do. But, like, I'm not investing it. I'm not buying real estate, I'm not buying bitcoin. All things I like. I'm. I'm starting a business because I can turn that 10 into 100, easy.
- [24:12]
B
Yeah, I agree.
- [24:14]
A
I mean, you could take my bro. You could take my connections away. And I'm doing the same thing because I just know how to. I'm an operator, bro.
- [24:21]
B
Yeah.
- [24:22]
A
I have seven meaningful businesses. I call myself the business juggler. I have seven real businesses. I have a TV production company called Vayner Watt. I have a huge sports agency for all the sports fans. Vayner Sports reps. Boba Shet just signed with the Mets for a buck 40. Sauce Gardner, Aiden Hutchinson, Kirk Cousins. We got tons of UFC fighters. Ian Gary about to have a huge fight. Piper's got a huge fight with Israel coming out. Like, I. So I got Vayner Sports. I have a huge restaurant group with five very successful restaurants in Manhattan, three in Vegas, brand new, ripping, called the VCR Group. And then I have VaynerMedia 400 million in revenue this year. Tommy. 400 million in sales, not valuation, not some bullshit. 400 million in sales. I got Vee Friends, which is my Pokemon meets Sesame street thing that I'm building. That could be the biggest company I ever built. Right? Like, I'm a real fucking operator, doing over a half a billion in revenue in my companies. Like, I'm an operator. Yes. I'm a motivational speaker and an author and a personality and a personal brand, you know. And yes, I know people see me in 15 second clips on, in feed or on LinkedIn, but, like, I'm a real fucking operator. I was 34 years old before I made business content on the Internet and already built a big business for my dad, you know, and restarted with nothing because I built the business for my dad. Sometimes people try to fucking, you know, flame me and they're like, don't listen to this guy. Trust fund baby, his dad gave him a winery. They make up all sorts of. They have no Idea my story. I work 22 to 34 every minute, 100 hours a week, seven days a week in a liquor store and started VaynerMedia in a conference room in another company because I had no money to my name for rent, because I got paid nothing. Working for my liquor store because my dad didn't pay himself either. It was all going back into the business. But the problem for me was he owned the business and had that asset. I had shit, right? So like I don't need anything. I'm a operator.
- [26:14]
B
Well, one question. You got these businesses you're, you're juggling. Is there ever. You know, I've always built a cell. If I can't sell a business in five years or less, not that I have to sell it if things are going well. But that's, that's generally like you roll equity.
- [26:31]
A
I'm a different player. I, I love that. And good for you. And that's awesome. And you like that game. I'm completely the other way. I want to die and leave it to people.
- [26:42]
B
I love it. So there's no businesses you plan on selling ever if your name's attached to it.
- [26:47]
A
I've had to sell two businesses. One was Empathy Wines. You could see it right over my shoulder here. These wines we sold in 18 months. We sold that business for just short of nine figures to Constellation Brands. I had two partners that started as interns with me at VaynerMedia. They were my partners in that direct to consumer wine brand. They were also both about to get married. We got this opportunity. They looked at me with those puppy 4 puppy dog eyes and I was like, God damn it. So we sold it. They made some money. It's really lovely. And the other business I sold in my career was I was the co founder and co creator of Resy, the restaurant app that sold to American Express that I'm sure a lot of people are familiar with that company. I came, I co came up with the idea. I was an investor and put money in. We housed that company in VaynerMedia. I was always there for Ben. Ben was the captain. I was the co pilot. I definitely made some big cash and strategic moves. I feel like my DNA is in that exit. But that was a big exit for Ben specifically, especially. And so those are the two businesses that have sold in my time. But neither one of them were like. The majority of my businesses were like the lead. It's me, right? I own it. Like, I don't have to factor anyone else's needs into the decision.
- [28:04]
B
Just one Quick thing. Have you ever heard Die with Zero? The book Die with Zero?
- [28:09]
A
I have.
- [28:10]
B
So just like Listen, when you're 35, compared to when you're 85, a trip means more, right? Like you could go do more, you could go hiking, you could do more and you could give and actually see your money be given. If you're, you know, 50, 60 years old and you can see, wow, I'm actually making an impact, you get to see your impact. So I'm not, I'm not disregarding what you're saying. I'm just thinking so many people, they make, they do all this work and they're workaholics and then they go to their grave and then they don't get to see the fruits of their labor or their kids. And by the way, your kids.
- [28:41]
A
But, but I have. Let me explain. I, I run very profitable businesses. I just did a $10 million over 10 year commitment to charity water. I'm going to see that impact. I've been to Ghana, I've watched the schools I built with pencils of promise. I don't want stuff, right? I don't want a Lamborghini, I don't want four houses. I don't want them. All I want is the New York jets to win a Super bowl. And I'm not in control of that yet. You know, I, I'm a workaholic. Not for the, I don't want the trophies. I want the process. Like, like, I don't, I don't need validation from the money. I don't. I also have plenty of money. My apart. My apartment's plenty nice. My, I've had multiple homes. Like, I've got stuff because I run profitable businesses and kick myself distribution. But I don't need much. You know what I mean? Like to your point, I love how you frame that. I've been able to do enormous amounts of impact financially through charitable work and then also why I spend so much time building the Gary Vee brand. I've literally fundamentally changed people's lives because of my content. And that feels some fulfilled as a human. And then for me, selfishly, Tommy, I, you know, I've said this a couple times recently because it's the only way I can explain it to me. I don't know how you vacation, but the way I like to vacation because I go so hard is I want to plop my ass on a beach, fucking do nothing, listen to music, eat three times, go to sleep like, you know, on some of these vacations, you know, as I've Grown in my career, the places are nicer, right? You go from Club Med to like, fucking Amanyara, right? Like, I. I've always been fascinated with the kid that is like, just building a sandcastle all fucking day. And then, like, the sun's coming down, it's time to, like, get cleaned up and go for dinner. And moms and dad are like, yo, Johnny. Yo, Tommy. It's time to go. And this kid fucking. I. I'm just laying there just listening to music and thinking and vegging out. And literally have watched this kid from 9:00am to fucking 5:00pm Build this fucking immaculate. Whether it's. Whether he did a good job or him and his sister or the sister or just her, Whether they did a good job or not. I've watched eight hours of work. Hey, Tommy, time for dinner. And then the kid just smashes it and runs up, bro, I'm that kid. I just need to. I just am curious and I'm enjoying. To see how big I can build all this juggling. I don't need the financial payoff. I get enough of what I need from the day to day, distributions and all that. That's what makes me happy. On the flip side, it was funny when you were like, I build businesses. Like, I was smiling inside. I'm like, that's fucking awesome. Like, that's. That's his chemicals. That's how he likes the game. I don't. I like my game for me. I don't recommend my game for anyone. Unless what I just said for the last four minutes lit you up on this. If you're listening right now, well, then let's go. Like, then do that. You can do that too. You got the Tommy way, you got the Gary way, and you got 100,000 other ways. Just do it for you. Do it for fucking. Did you ever see Rocky 4 with Drago?
- [31:47]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [31:48]
A
So I don't know if you know, I'm Russian, so I know what he was saying at the last scene, and it's really just Rocky celebrating. So it's a scene that a lot of people don't remember, but there's a scene at the end where Drago, after he lost, is like, yelling at the Russian crowd in the Russian premier. And he's saying in Russian, he's like, you all for booing me. Like, I was in this ring for me. Not for the country. Not for you. Yeah. Cba. I was from. I was in it for. I'm in here for me. It's me. I'm the man in the arena. That's how I see life.
- [32:22]
B
That's incredible.
- [32:23]
A
I'm not trying. I'm not trying to impress anyone. I'm not trying to convince anyone. I don't think I'm special. I'm just in the arena for me. And for me, I just want to keep playing. I'm intoxicated by the holding the breath of it all, and that's how I roll.
- [32:40]
B
You know, I walked up to you. You were at Yano's event. It was out in the desert. Cristiano, it was probably five years ago. We drank plenty of wine. You went on there and you said, you know, all you guys doing billboards, why billboards? I could beat you with social media. It might take a hundred tries. But I also went up to you and I said, you know, Gary, my mom and a lot of other people in my life say, when is enough enough? And you go, tommy, I get that all the time. You said, I'm still having fun. I'm just getting started. It's just starting. It's starting to get easier. And that had to be five, six years ago at this point. And I'll never forget that because I was like, yeah, I'm like Tiger Woods. Mom didn't say you won four. You know, you win the. The Grand Slam. You won all four tournaments, Tommy, that's
- [33:22]
A
because a lot of people around us really think it's about the money. And by the way, it's a. I just want everyone to hear this. You're. Everyone's allowed for it to be about the money. And I want to say a curveball to everyone here. I wish all of you knew me at 17. I'm not saying this gibberish right now because now I have money. I was saying this gibberish when I didn't. That's why I was such a psycho and signed up for building a huge business for my parents and left with nothing, Dick. Zero. I left with fulfillment. Back to what you said. Leave with zero. I fucking lived it, bro. I gave all of my best youth years to my parents because I have that in my soul forever. I go into the ground knowing that there are very few sons or daughters on earth that did more for their parents financially than the reverse. Like, I feel good about that. Makes me feel good. So anyway, that's why they're saying that, Tommy. They think you're doing it for another this or another that or another zero in the bank account. You know, this. The are we gonna do the are we supposed to do if we're not building?
- [34:22]
B
Yeah, yeah, let's talk about. Talk about, like, not wanting to wake up in the morning, like, what do. Like, I can't imagine disappearing onto a golf course and being like, I'm retired. We got under eight minutes. So I'm going to speed through here. What's your biggest professional dream at the current moment? Like, if you got the. All these businesses.
- [34:40]
A
I want. I want V Friends to become Pokemon and Marvel. I think I can do it. I'm super deep into it. I'm obsessed with collectibles. I'm obsessed with storytelling and characters. I want everyone to fall in love with stoic slime, an empathy elephant. And I need to make Dynamic Dinosaur famous. I'm Walt fucking Disney. I'm Vince McMahon. I'm Jim Henson. That is my biggest goal. And then when I build that and take it public or sell it, because the jets are available, I want to buy the New York jets and I want to ride them into a Super Bowl.
- [35:12]
B
All right, we're just going to do this speed round here. There's 14 things true or false and your reasoning. Okay, you need to establish a niche before you start posting false.
- [35:23]
A
Because you could just. First of all, you don't even need a niche. You could be completely potpourri like I am and talk about tons of different things. Next.
- [35:31]
B
If you post too much, people will unfollow.
- [35:35]
A
Not true. No one's seeing everything anymore. It's the interest media era, not the social media era. People unfollow if you post things that they're not interested in consistently. Plus, if you post more, you'll gain more followers than you'll lose and you'll net out with more. Next.
- [35:51]
B
Taking a posting break helps reset the algorithm.
- [35:56]
A
False. Posting better content helps reset the algorithm. The algorithm is just people. There is no algorithm. It's people's interest in what you're saying. Taking a break and coming back and doing more bad shit isn't going to help you. Next.
- [36:11]
B
All you need is one big viral moment.
- [36:15]
A
Most people get into levels of depression because they have a viral moment and do nothing with it. It's the reverse. You don't need a big boulder. You need thousands of little Pebbles consistently. Next.
- [36:26]
B
Only viral content is valuable for bringing in followers.
- [36:32]
A
Yes, there is. I would say. Yes. Ish. I would say Big posts that earn a million views will get you more followers, but posts that get a thousand views will also bring in. So does an individual piece of content that gets tons of views bring in more followers than the others? Yes. Is it more likely, like the gym, that you'll more likely get 4, 7, 9, 13, 23 every day. If you do that consistently for 365 days versus worrying and hoping for the lottery ticket, that's the framework you need to bring to this. Next.
- [37:08]
B
Being too broad confuses the algorithm.
- [37:11]
A
Being too what, brother?
- [37:12]
B
Being too broad?
- [37:14]
A
Absolutely not. Like I would say earlier. Yeah, I'm incredibly broad. It's just. Are you making shit that people are interested in? Again, there's no algorithm. The content is shown to a small group of people quickly. Some of your followers, some not. And if people are not engaging with it, staying on it, reading it, clicking it, sharing it, liking it, DMing it, or just sitting on it and consuming it, then it will decline.
- [37:39]
B
Following trends or hot topics matters more than originality.
- [37:44]
A
It's and not both. Or both can work like trends. Being contextual, being relevant, being of the moment, phenomenal. But if, like, you know, quarter zips are hot, but you say something stupid and not valuable, you're not going to be able to ride that trend. Both matter. Steak and sizzle. Next.
- [38:00]
B
You should use trending audio on 90% of your reels.
- [38:05]
A
I would say false. I mean, I mean, first of all, you should be talking in more of your reels if you're, if you're only. If you're using only visuals, like talking matters. But I think catching a audio trend before it pops is even better than riding one that's popped. So I think you got to again, mix it up. Next.
- [38:27]
B
Long form content, like long YouTube videos,
- [38:29]
A
are dead, uncomfortably false. We just sat here for 40 minutes and gave a ton of fucking value. Plus now we have a piece of content that we can chop up into 13 pieces of content. Long form video, I would argue, is the starting point. Long form video is crushing on Netflix, Amazon Prime, YouTube, podcasts. That's an excuse of the week. Next.
- [38:53]
B
Once you monetize, the algorithm punishes you
- [38:58]
A
the one more time. The algorithm is just people. If you start trying to sell, sell, sell, less people are interested in being sold. They want information. So like I wrote years ago, in jab, jab, jab, right hook, you got to give value, give value, give value. But you should have no shame in asking. But if you're asking, asking, asking, asking, you're going to lose attention, attention.
- [39:18]
B
Let's do one more and close out here. The algorithm favors controversy or not. Forget the algorithm. People in general. This is how we wrote the questions. But it's the people.
- [39:29]
A
No. Yeah, I think unfortunately people are addicted to gossip, drama, rubber. You know, all of us are driving on the highway and we have to look at the accident we rubberneck unfortunately but here's a very important thing everyone in the short term we all love candy but if you eat candy for lunch, breakfast and dinner you will eventually throw up. And so I would say a lot of why I'm me is I've consistently stayed protein in a world of candy and I think in the end I win and that's how I see it.
- [40:08]
B
Gary if somebody were to reach out, I mean there's a million ways to get ahold of you but where would you have them contact you where your team could get back to them?
- [40:17]
A
That's very gracious and I do think people can find me but Gary Vee is a very easy way to find me everywhere. I appreciate you brother Tommy. I wish you a great, great healthy happy year and I hope we cross paths again.
- [40:28]
B
We will have a great day my man. Thank you so much for doing.