Unlocking the Secrets of Cold Calling with Peter Roth

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Home Service Expert Podcast

Episode: Unlocking the Secrets of Cold Calling with Peter Roth
Date: October 10, 2025
Host: Tommy Mello, $200M Founder, Forbes Columnist
Guest: Peter Roth, CEO/Founder of Scalify, Serial Entrepreneur

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the real-world strategies, lessons, and data-driven approaches to cold calling in the home services industry. Tommy Mello interviews Peter Roth, a serial entrepreneur with a deep background in call center operations and sales, pulling out actionable insights for business owners seeking to scale through outbound call centers. The conversation dives deep into the mindset, tactics, economics, and pitfalls of building effective outbound teams, especially for high-ticket services like HVAC, roofing, and solar.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Peter Roth’s Journey to Call Centers

• Background
  • Built and scaled businesses across industries: solar, retail (discount cigars), and call centers ([02:00]).
  • Educated in Ukraine, Syracuse, Oxford, and Budapest ([01:42]).
• Discovery of the call center model
  • Tried all standard channels (Facebook ads, paid search), but “the thing that worked was the call center space…we just kind of stumbled upon by accident and it worked” ([04:09]).
• Early lessons:

  “We tried everything…they just weren’t awesome. And the thing that we just kind of stumbled upon by accident…was the call center space.” — Peter Roth [04:09]

2. Why Most Companies Fail at Lead Handling

• Lead management bottleneck:
  • “Here’s where 90% of all businesses fail: they don’t call the leads back. The leads come in and that’s where they go to die.” — Peter Roth [04:49]
  • Speed to lead and disciplined follow-up is often lacking.
• First fix: Hire a VA to call leads — “Lo and behold, business started improving. What a shocker, right?” ([05:00])

3. Understanding Cold Calling's Target Market & Efficacy

• Who answers cold calls?
  • “Cold calling…the ideal client is someone in their 40s, ideally even 50s to 70s…that’s part of their buying culture.” — Peter Roth [06:28]
• Younger generations not the focus
  • “The younger generations are not the ideal client, especially for cold calling.” ([06:21])
• Selective targeting is key:
  • “We can be thoughtful and mindful about who we’re targeting and what industry we’re targeting for…” — Peter Roth [08:43]

4. Service Pitching—Outbound vs. Inbound

• Outbound call centers build market demand, while inbound relies on existing intent ([08:28]).
• Unique advantages of outbound in home services:
  • For HVAC, pitch “tune-up” offers, not direct sales — “It’s a service call, not a sales call…now you get the benefit of the homeowner not thinking they're being pitched” ([09:14])

5. Logistics & Economics of Building a Call Center

• Staffing:
  • Centered mainly in Mexico (“phenomenal English, little to almost no accent whatsoever” [10:23])
• Ownership & Management:
  • Scalify builds out custom call centers for clients; clients own and can manage or let Scalify run it ([10:54])
• Agent productivity and costs:
  • Each HVAC agent “should be booking roughly three tune up calls per day—that’s a pretty big number.” — Peter Roth [13:26]
  • Approximate cost: $60 per booked appointment; $180/day/agent ([14:05]); minimum engagement is 3 agents, so roughly $600/day for nine doors booked ([14:41]).

6. Outbound Mindset and Scaling

• Outbound call centers = “found money” by “going out and getting the work, not waiting” ([08:33], [16:10]).
• Outbound requires tougher, more specialized agents, compared to inbound (customer service) ([15:08]).

7. Tech and Data in Outbound Operations

• On AI & SMS:
  • “You cannot use AI for cold outreach. That’s 100% illegal. FCC banned that a while ago…Once you have proof of opt in, AI can reach out.” — Peter Roth [17:48–19:02]
  • SMS is saturated and heavily policed by carriers ([17:23]).
• Data selection & predictive dialing:
  • Use regression-tested data: age, home ownership, income bracket ([21:12])
  • Avoid bottom and top 20% income brackets; focus on homes 10–13+ years in age ([22:29])
  • “We need fractions of percentages for this thing to be profitable for my clients.” ([23:04])
  • Must use a multi-line predictive dialer ([23:29])

8. Building Out An Effective Call Center

• Four main components:
  1. Experienced agents (“don’t just hire some VA or your neighbor’s kid” [24:01])
  2. Good software (multi-line predictive dialer)
  3. A solid but unscripted approach—“you don’t need magic words, just a good offer, especially financing” ([25:23])
  4. High-quality data lists ([25:24])

9. Compensation & Turnover Strategies

• Hybrid, not pure performance pay:
  • “Most people are wired for safety and security…including call center agents.” — Peter Roth [26:40]
  • Pay $7/hr (Mexico), bonus $20 per sit/appointment ([28:03])
  • Keep agents loyal by not lowballing and giving modest bonuses
• No-shows managed with psychological scripting (Cialdini-influenced “commitment” phrasing) ([29:38])
  • “Our experts are all taking time away from their families… so I just want to make sure that you can be there” ([30:13])

10. Industry Comparisons, Pitfalls, and War Stories

• Solar: high risk, high burnout, high scam potential
  • “It’s a really easy industry to scam people… and now it’s going through a major, major shakedown.” ([31:47])
• HVAC: technically demanding, solid industry if you understand it ([32:47])
• Retail/Lifestyle businesses (cigars): Passion-driven, not scalable or sustainable for most ([34:36])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the economics of cold calling:

  “People don’t really pick up cold calls. And I’m like, no, they don’t. We need fractions of percentages to make this work.” — Peter Roth [00:00, 23:04]

• On outbound vs inbound:

  “Our thing is outbound telemarketing… these are the tough cookies, these are the ones actually making sales, booking appointments, doing hard work...” — Peter Roth [15:08]

• On the cold call mindset:

  “You hire us to build you a call center so we can get your sales guys in the home to sell your stuff, whatever that is.” — Peter Roth [15:04]

• On data:

  “You need a good quality list, because if you get a cheap list, there’s going to be so much inaccurate information on there that your agents are going to spend way too much time just listening to wrong names… and it’ll just burn up labor hours.” — Peter Roth [25:24]

• On the cost of acquisition:

  “For roofing, the average customer acquisition cost is just under 400 bucks… a Google lead, not even a booked appointment, is over $200.” — Peter Roth [37:54, 38:46]

• On perseverance:

  “Just not giving up. It sounds really corny… but there were so many times I wanted to throw in the towel… This year will be the best financial year of my entire my entire life. And it’s because I didn’t throw in the towel and it’s because I didn’t quit.” — Peter Roth [39:42]

• On personal branding:

  “Personal brand is going to become so much more important in the next year, and it continues to be.” — Tommy Mello [44:19]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:14] — Peter Roth on discovering call centers as a solution
• [04:49] — “Where 90% of businesses fail—the leads go to die”
• [06:28] — Understanding who answers cold calls
• [09:14] — The strategic advantage of service (not sales) calls for HVAC
• [13:26] — “Each agent should be booking roughly three tune up calls per day”
• [15:08] — Outbound vs. inbound call center work explained
• [17:48–19:02] — FCC-granted limits on AI in cold calling
• [23:04] — Low answer rates, but high profitability by volume
• [24:01] — Four essentials for building a call center
• [28:03] — Pay structure: hourly plus bonuses
• [30:13] — Using commitment bias to reduce no-shows
• [37:54] — Actual cost per roofing customer acquisition
• [39:42] — Perseverance and rebounding from failure
• [44:19–46:45] — Personal branding’s role in business growth and exits

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Recommended Resources & Books

• Built to Sell by John Warrillow ([42:01])
• $100M Offers by Alex Hormozi ([42:11])
• Influence by Robert Cialdini — cornerstone of persuasive sales scripting ([42:57])

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Closing Takeaways

• Call centers are underutilized profit machines for home service companies if implemented with discipline, data, and the right talent.
• Personal brand and relationship-building are increasingly critical for growth and attraction of talent and investors.
• Perseverance and willingness to adapt after failure underpin long-term entrepreneurial success.

Contact Peter Roth:

https://scalifyco.com

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(For full tactical breakdowns, scripts, and call center build guides, refer to Peter Roth’s site or reach out directly.)

Transcript

[Peter Roth]

People don't really pick up cold calls. And I'm like, no, they don't. We need fractions of percentages to make this work.

[Tommy Mello]

Welcome to the Home Service Expert, where each week Tommy chats with world class entrepreneurs and experts in various fields like marketing, sales, hiring and leadership to find out what's really behind their success in business. Now your host, the home service millionaire, Tommy Mello. Before we get started, I wanted to share two important things with you. First, I want you to implement what you learned today. To do that, you'll have to take a lot of notes. But I also want you to fully concentrate on the interview. So I asked the team to take notes for you. Just text notes N o t e s to 888-526-1299. That's 888-526-1299. And you'll receive a link to download the notes from today's episode. Also, if you haven't got your copy of my newest book, elevate, please go check it out. I'll share with you how I attracted and developed a winning team that helped me build a $200 million company in 22 states. Just go to elevate and win.com podcast to get your copy. Now let's go back into the interview. All right, guys, welcome back to the Home Service Expert. Today I got Peter Roth in the house. He's an expert of sales and business. He's based in Denver. CEO and senior marketing director at Scalify Gala Fi. It's so hard for me to. It's just scarify scale ify he's a serial entrepreneur and businessman. Originally, well, Ukraine. Originally Ukraine, which is Azurh.

[Peter Roth]

Well, it used to be part of Russia.

[Tommy Mello]

What is that?

[Peter Roth]

You don't want to try to pronounce that. You don't want to try to pronounce that. Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

He's built and scaled businesses across multiple industries from the solar industry, solar wise to retail my discount cigar to his flagship company, Scalify Call centers where he helps organizations build high performing customer service operations. Educated in Syracuse University, the University of Oxford and the Budapest University of Economic Sciences, Peter combines academic rigor with practical business acumen. With roots in both Eastern Europe and the United States, he brings a unique cross cultural lens to leadership growth and customer service.

[Peter Roth]

Dude, whoever wrote that, can they, can we give them some sort of an award? Because that is. That's an exceptionally well written intro there. I like that.

[Tommy Mello]

Well, I'm excited, man. You know, you've learned how to do a lot of stuff that Most companies don't really know about. So let's just start about your story, where you're at today and what you're excited about.

[Peter Roth]

You know, I mean, I don't want to make this, like, a pitchy thing, because that's not why I'm here. But, you know, I'm excited. Like, I was talking to you off camera two seconds ago. I'm excited to, like, show different trades, especially in the home services space, that there's other avenues for marketing, Right? Because people get so pigeonholed into, like, their preferred marketing channels. Like I was just telling you a few seconds ago, like, you know, you talk to H Vac guys, and they're used to the concept of Angie's List, right? Like, that's just normal stuff for them. But then you talk to roofers, and they're like, what the hell is Angie's List?

[Tommy Mello]

Or thumbtack. Or yellow Thumbtack.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, yeah. So, like, different industries, even though they're, like, so closely related, it's like they look at each other like they're foreigners. And so that's why I'm here, to kind of talk about, like, how this call center stuff has been working out so well for so many different industries and why we're blowing up so much.

[Tommy Mello]

Well, let's talk about it. You know, tell me why you got into the call center industry and where you're at with it.

[Peter Roth]

Cause it's the only thing that worked for us. So I got my teeth kicked in in the solar space, right? So I used to own an H Vac company, sold that, and then transitioned into Sol. Whether that was a good decision remains to be seen, but. But while I was there, I got my teeth kicked in. In a good way, in a very positive way. Like, sometimes you have to do that, right? You got to go through some suffering in order to. I'm so jealous of you. You have to. You have to sometimes, you know, you have to go through those tough times. And so solar taught me a lot of really hard lessons. Like, I had to learn how to feed a team of people, a team of salespeople. And we tried everything. We did all the usual suspects, the Facebook ads, the paid searches, and all that kind of stuff. And I'm not saying anything was broken. I'm not saying those things work, but they just weren't awesome. And the thing that we just kind of stumbled upon by accident. It's not like I was some genius, but by accident was the call center space. We just kind of slowly inched our way into it and kind of realized, oh, wait a minute, this is the thing that's actually working. And so I just kept doubling down and doubling down again. And lo and behold, now it's like, well, guys, this thing works and now I'm bringing it to other companies and it's working out for them. So here we are.

[Tommy Mello]

Well, let's take a deep dive into that. What?

[Peter Roth]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

What exactly prompted this new. Walking into it by accident?

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, I'll tell you exactly. I'll make it quick. So we were getting leads as most. I think a lot of companies will relate to this. You got different marketing channels, all bringing leads coming in, right? And then here's, I think where 90% of all businesses fail is they don't call the leads back.

[Tommy Mello]

Call the leads.

[Peter Roth]

The leads come in and then that's where they go to die, Right. I think if anyone's watching this, be like, oh shit, that's probably he just described to me, right? You get these lead sources and you're paying all this really good money to this lead gen agency over here and this lead gen company over there and this marketing channel over there. And they're all doing something productive for you. They're bringing in leads. But you're the one. You realize if you take a hard look in the mirror, like you're the one who's actually not calling them back. You don't have your team calling them back. You don't have a good system in place to actually follow up with these leads. And then that's where they go to die. And so what we did was like anybody else? We hired someone, right? We found a va, a really inexpensive VA to start calling these leads. And lo and behold, business started improving. What a shocker, right? And so then we're like, okay, wait a minute. The key to success, success here is having the speed to lead, is having someone on the goddamn phones. So we hired another person. This person, amazing lady, she, she pulled me aside and she's like, hey, by the way, I have some cold calling experience. I'm not busy throughout the day. I've got a lot of dead time. Do you want me to use that time productively and just do some cold calls for you? And I was like, does that shit work? And she's like, yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

I'm like, even with all the new technology on iPhone that it like this new thing just came out on an iPhone that literally.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, that's affects a very small percentage of people. And let me address that real quick. I know some people ask that question and it's a valid One, those aren't our target audience. People who are super caught up on iPhones and super caught up with the latest os and keeping everything up to date represents a much younger demographic audience.

[Tommy Mello]

You still looking for land lights? Landlines?

[Peter Roth]

No, no, no, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying the younger generations are not the ideal.

[Tommy Mello]

They're not the ideal client.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, no, they're not the. Yeah. In general, they're not the ideal client. Especially for cold calling. Cold calling. The ideal client is someone in their 40s, ideally even fift to their 70s, because that. That's part of their buying culture, that's part of their shopping behaviors. Like, they're used to having the Kirby salesman come to their door and they're used to buying vacuum. Like if you ask an older person, hey, how do you buy a vacuum? They're like, I wait for the guy to come to my door.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah, right.

[Peter Roth]

And you're like, God damn. I guess this. You're right. This is. I'm like, well, how do you buy like an encyclopedia? Like, well, you know, someone comes to my door to sell me one. Like, right, this thing. Really? Yeah. And you know, they buy shit off of infomercials at night. Oh, yeah. You. And I don't, but they do. So there's the target audience. So like. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So people just have to realize, like, that was never your target audience to begin with. There's other ways to market to them. I'm not saying that you shouldn't be marketing to them. I'm just saying you need to be marketing to them in a different fashion. PPC and all that kind of stuff. Right. Paid search, organic SEO, all that kind of jazz that works.

[Tommy Mello]

So what, what is the. So you got the lead ags, by the way, home improvement is way different than home service. See, home improvement is when I'm going to improve my house. It's not a demand call. It's not. My stuff's broken. Hot water heaters leak in my garbage disposal went out. The roof is actually leaking. Roofs could be some type of improvement, but like, windows are straight up improvement. Groceries could fit into both kind of. But I like on the repair side more. But what I found about these guys, and I know a lot of them, I mean, they're doing $2 billion a year and they've worked with a few lead ad companies and they partnered with them where they've actually like made them a partner and they go on and just generate the leads and then they fulfill them all. But if anything's broken like the speed to lead, speed to form leads. If anything's broken, it doesn't work. But these guys, they go out and hunt. That's why I've been studying home improvement so much, is they don't have anybody calling saying I have to replace my windows, so they gotta go build the demand for themselves. And so my question, I guess is where's the best place to start?

[Peter Roth]

Start with what?

[Tommy Mello]

Start going out and getting the work rather than waiting them for to call you. So you said cold call.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, well, I mean, isn't that exactly why we're talking right now? Like, doesn't cold call, doesn't that just make sense? Right? Because now we're waiting, now we're going out to get them as opposed to waiting for them to come to us.

[Tommy Mello]

And that is, and the beauty of.

[Peter Roth]

It is, is like we can target. Like we can be thoughtful and mindful about who we're targeting and what industry we're targeting for, which is exactly what we do, right? Like if you come to me as a roofer or as an H Vac company, we're not just going to blast every single home in America, right? We're going to be very thoughtful and methodical as to who it is that we're calling so that it aligns with the type of ideal target client that you're going for. That's part of the magic, right?

[Tommy Mello]

So what is that? So give me an example of a roofing call or a H Vac call. So you call me up.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

And I'm 55 years old.

[Peter Roth]

H Vac is my favorite, by the way. Roofing and H vac, those two are my favorites. But H Vac maybe takes the cake by just a slim margin because here's the huge advantage that H Vac gets over roofing over really everyone else? Because everyone else, we're booking a sales call and it's obviously a Sales call. Hey, Mr. Homeowner, someone's going to try to sell you some, right? And they know that. And there's no delusion about it, right? They know it. H Vac is different. H Vac were usually doing a tune up call, right? Like, hey, it's getting hot. You're. It's about to be hit 100 degrees here in Phoenix. You sure you don't want someone to come and look at you? We're already in your neighborhood. We got three technicians out there. Tomorrow they're doing you some of your neighbor's homes. While we're out there, we're doing free C tunems for half the price. Can I get you penciled in for tomorrow, the day after? It's half price, 39 bucks. And they're like, sure, right? So it's a super, super simple pitch, but the beauty of it is it's a service call, it's not a sales call. So now you get the benefit of two benefits. The homeowner doesn't think they're being pitched anything. And number two, the company is now actually recouping some of their costs, but they're actually. Because they're actually getting paid to show up there.

[Tommy Mello]

And how much does this. Is this person. Where's this person calling from, by the way? From you? Are they calling from like Ukraine or somewhere in the Middle East? No, no, not Middle east.

[Peter Roth]

No. They use Latin America, but with a strong focus on Mex. The vast majority of our agents live in Mexico because they speak. They speak phenomenal English, little to almost no accent whatsoever. There's a strong community there of people that work in the call center space. So we've got no shortage of people who already have experience in H vac and roofing and those basic trades.

[Tommy Mello]

And how many. How do they get paid? How do you. How do you get paid?

[Peter Roth]

How do we get paid? Or how did they get paid so many?

[Tommy Mello]

Well, I guess. Well, you go to. You to run it all. So how do you charge clients?

[Peter Roth]

So we build out the call centers for them, right? We're not like a bpo. We're not a. We're not a call center for hire or for rent type of a thing. That's not great. Those type of companies get a little bit of a bad rap and for pretty good reason. It's a little bit of a flawed model. What we do is we actually build out the call center for your company. So you actually own the call center free and clear, no strings attached, no crazy hooks, no nothing. Like you actually own the call center. And if you want us to manage it for you, we gladly will. We're extremely affordable. We'll actually manage the entire operation for you. But you don't even have to do that, right? If you. If you got people on your team that already know how to do it, well, then, hallelujah, you can do it yourself. But if you'd like us to do it for you, we're happy to do it. And we're really affordable. So we build out the entire operation. It's all remote, right? You don't have to go rent some office space in Mexico. It's all remote. And everyone check, you know, clocks in at 11am, they clock out at 7pm Those are, those are the magic hours. And then my team manages the entire operation for you. We little. And then you just sit back and watch the appointments start rolling in. That sound sales agency. But it's true.

[Tommy Mello]

And how much technician training? We train a lot on this. I mean we've got a 29 tune up. Yeah, I mean you go in there and you educate the clients. I mean, the fact is that usually on a garage where there's a lot of failure points, H vac unit, hot water heater. If it's 12 years old, it's a problem waiting to happen.

[Peter Roth]

My wife, we needed to get our garage door fixed last week and she. I was out of town. I was doing another podcast and she called a company. I was like, did you call Tommy's come. She's like, who's Tommy?

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

Damn it.

[Tommy Mello]

Oh, it's always funny.

[Peter Roth]

Sorry.

[Tommy Mello]

No, it breaks. They break all the time. I've obviously I use this podcast to get educated. I mean, and hopefully other people listen and they like it. I mean, obviously I started in 2017 and just got everybody on here and I got a lot of great ideas and I found the people that actually knew how to do this stuff. I wouldn't say every podcast for me is like super educational. Some of it's just story time and learning about people.

[Peter Roth]

Sure.

[Tommy Mello]

But you know, what do you find? What's the sales process for the best companies? Best in class.

[Peter Roth]

Look, I don't pretend that I have full open access to their processes. Right. So I don't think I can answer that question with total confidence. Right. What I can tell you is who the clients are that succeed the best with call centers. Because I know them, because they're the ones always calling me to add more agents. Like, hey Peter, let's add two more.

[Tommy Mello]

What's a lot of agents to you? What's one company? What's a larger company? How many agents?

[Peter Roth]

15, 20 agents. That's a pretty respectable size call center for a respectable size company.

[Tommy Mello]

What kind of tune ups does each agent book a day?

[Peter Roth]

So if we're talking H vac, the average numbers are the. For in the space of H Vac, which is different than roofing, which is different than solar. But in the space of H vac, each agent should be booking roughly three tune up calls per day. So it's a pretty big number.

[Tommy Mello]

And what does that cost for you to manage that one agent?

[Peter Roth]

I'll just tell you right now, it all boils down to like, what is your. What Is your cost per appointment, Per booked appointment in the space of H vac, I think it comes to, like, right. About 60 bucks. So for 60 bucks, you're getting in the door with a booked appointment, ready to go, ready to pay.

[Tommy Mello]

So you're paying $180 that day for that one.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You would. That would have. Equivalent to have cost you about $180 in total. In total fees between. Between the cost of the labor, between the management fees, between the diet, the soft. The software cost itself, which is real minimal. And then you need phone numbers to call. Right. Data phone numbers to call. So they got to consume some phone numbers. So Those are the four main. That's it. Those are the four expenses of running a call center.

[Tommy Mello]

And so. So 180 a day. You're basically.

[Peter Roth]

That's for one agent, though. Keep in mind. I mean, we don't do anything for less than. With less than three agents.

[Tommy Mello]

So you're almost at 600 bucks a day.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

So you're spending a few grand the door.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, you're in a lot. You're in nine doors for that day, which is.

[Tommy Mello]

That's hopefully about three technicians keeping three guys busy.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, maybe even more. Okay, maybe even more.

[Tommy Mello]

What do you think the mindset shift is between inbound and outbound? Because I think I. I've. Over the years, I became lazy. I mean, we get 25, 000 book calls a month.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, yeah, I get it. No, you're in a different.

[Tommy Mello]

But why not have 50,000.

[Peter Roth]

No, I. I understand there's. I. Let me address your question, because I think you asked two very different questions. Question number one, the difference between inbound. First of all, a lot of people don't know the difference between inbound and outbound. So I think that's an important thing to address real quickly. In inbound is not our thing. I mean, we'll do it, but that's not our thing. Our thing is outbound telemarketing. Our thing is you hire us to build you a call center so that we can get your sales guys in the home to sell your stuff, whatever that is. Right. That's what we do. Outbound. Inbound is CSR work. Inbound is customer service, relationship management type stuff. It's people come calling in to handle whatever, you know, customer service type stuff, or maybe book an appointment, hopefully. But it's inbound. That's not our thing. We can do it. That's the easier thing. Inbound is the easy thing because you don't really need specialized people. For that. Anyone with a smile and a pleasant voice can handle that. They don't really need all that specialized training. The outbound guys are the. Those are. These are the tough cookies. These are the ones that are actually making sales, booking appointments, doing the hard work to get you in the home. They're the setters. Setters are the. Setters are the. The. The. What's. What's the term for it? They're the. The unspoken. The underappreciated winners. You know, these are the guys doing all the heavy lifting.

[Tommy Mello]

You know, it's crazy. I've been talking about our. Our database, and our database is 2 million clients. I mean, it would probably take 25 agents two years to call those people back.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, you're in a different scenario, Tommy. Like, you may not be the ideal client for this. Right? Like, you've got so much, such a large database, but that's building out.

[Tommy Mello]

See, you interrupt the inbound when you start trying to do both. So it's like you take your eye off the ball. This is for the listeners out there. This is a big mistake. When you start having one call center manager manage too many things, they start to. They start to drift off on the inbound, focus on outbound, and then they're focused on inbound again. Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

So actually, and I just. Just take back what I just said, because I said, you may not be the right. That's. That's so not you. And you said it yourself, you're like, but what? You said, I have 20,000, but why not have 50,000? Yeah, no, like, that's your. That's exactly the point. It's like, well, why not keep growing? I get it. You're in an amazing place in life, obviously.

[Tommy Mello]

But like, no, I'm in the fetal stages.

[Peter Roth]

Why not. Why not keep tiny? Like, why not be in all 50 states, right? And there's a. There's. There's only one way to do that, and you need more outbound.

[Tommy Mello]

What about sms?

[Peter Roth]

What about it?

[Tommy Mello]

I mean.

[Peter Roth]

I mean, it's a bit of a. I don't want to say it's. I don't want to say it's a dying channel. I want to say it's now become saturated and it's now become very policed by the. By the. By the telecoms. They're all policing.

[Tommy Mello]

Fcc.

[Peter Roth]

Fcc. They're policing the. Out of it now. So the. The carriers are all doing.

[Tommy Mello]

They won't make a lot.

[Peter Roth]

No, most of it's not.

[Tommy Mello]

What about AI agents these days? Because that's the hottest Thing.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, on the, yeah, that's, that's a really, really good question and it's a really common question that I get. Let me, let me answer it the best I can. Number one, this is important to say. Number one, you cannot use AI for cold outreach. That's 100% illegal. FCC banned that a while ago. Cannot do it. And it's a good thing that you cannot do it. And I'll explain why. Number one, it's too easy to do, right? It's just a bot, right? It's just a piece of software. So it's not like you need real humans, right? So you can literally, at the push of a button, some teenagers in Pakistan can click a button and literally blow up our entire phone lines in the entire United States with a shit ton of you spam calls trying to sell us cheap Viagra offers. Right? I mean it would just, it would disable the phone systems. Your cell phone would be. Flames will be coming out of it. We have so much shit coming through. And more importantly, you would completely stop picking up your phone because you would know that every single phone call is just spam nonsense. So because it's, there's no, there's no resistance, there's no friction. It's just click a button and a million calls can start being placed all at once. So they banned that and for good reason, because it would just incapacitate our phone lines. So no, no AI is allowed to make a cold outreach call. However, AI is allowed to make a call once you have proof of opt in. Proof of opt in, meaning they already booked an appointment or did something to engage with you in a meaningful way. That's considered proof of opt in. Now AI can reach out to them. So here's what I always tell business owners. If they're, if they're considering AI, which they should, I'm very much pro AI and we work, we partner with different, a different company to piggyback with them for AI. And here's exactly where we do it. So there's four, generally four sales channels or four sales paths for most home services companies. This doesn't necessarily apply to all of them, but I'll explain them. So path number one is the top of the funnel, which is the booking the appointment. Okay. The cold call, booking the appointment. As I just said, for that you cannot use AI, Right. That has to be done by a human for obvious reasons. Now number two, this is the one that's optional for some companies is a discovery call. Certain industries will call them the homeowner first and say, hey, just want to learn more about you and the problems that you're facing. Right. Let's, let's, let's flesh out those problems. So a discovery call that, like I said, that doesn't apply to all industries. Number three would be the closing call or the pitch. Right. Obviously probably wouldn't use AI for that. I mean I guess you could depending on how you know how easy your pitch is. And then number four is the biggest, is the biggest bucket of all. That's everything else. That's no shows, cancellations. I want to think about it. I'm not interested. People who just didn't call you ghosting that. That's the biggest bucket of all. That is the perfect bucket to utilize AI for. So I'm a huge fan of AI for that last bucket because it's the biggest one of all. Most people don't say yes. Right. Most people say no to your thing. So there's a lot more no's and there are yeses and especially once you add in no shows and cancellations. And I want to think about it's that bucket is huge and AI is the perfect tool and the perfect method to reach out to them because that's an easy thing. Right. It's just calling them and saying, hey, let's get you back on the calendar so that a real human can close the deal. That is 100% brilliant idea to do with AI. So we do that all the time with our call center clients.

[Tommy Mello]

I love it when you're safering through data. Do you ever look at. I just realized that a lot of these finance companies have the ability to tell you who's pre qualified.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

What kind of data do you look for? I mean you look at regression testing is you could go credit card score, you could go home over this age, you could go income level, you could go who's pre qualified? Like what is the data that's best used? And I know it depends on industry and whatnot.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, it depends on the industry. So like for example, let's say we're looking at roofing, for example. Right. Got a lot of roofing clients. Roofing is thankfully pretty simple, but a lot more straightforward. It doesn't have to get nearly as complicated as some of those kind of filters that you're talking about. The main things that we're looking for typically, and again it depends, are we talking about retail roofing or insurance based like storm replacements. But let's say we're talking about retail. So retail, the standard roofing client, the standard Roofing company is going to want homes that are 10, 12, 13 years and above. They want homes with older roofs. People that are outside of their warranty, people that maybe don't have homeowners insurance to cover it for them, maybe have accumulated some damage. So we're typically, if we're looking around 13 years and older, we want the homeowner aged, typically be in the mid-40s to the mid-70s. For the same reason, like I mentioned earlier in the beginning of this, we don't want people that are too young, they're not the ideal. They don't pick up cold calls and they certainly don't book appointments off of cold calls. It's just not in their buyer psychology. But it is for older generations. So that's why we're trying to target certain age groups. Then we're looking for particular home sizes because we want to filter out the bottom 20% of income. For obvious reason that can be problematic. We also want to filter out the top 20% of income. A lot of people don't realize they're actually just as problematic, if not even worse. Trying to get a hold of ultra wealthy is a very difficult thing to do. Number one, they just don't answer their phone. They got a house manager, they got. Well, even if they don't, they don't either. Just don't pick up an unrecognized phone number. And even if they do, it's just not in their buyer psychology to book a cold call off of it.

[Tommy Mello]

How many people do answer on average once you.

[Peter Roth]

Very little. Very. It's a good question. Very little. And I'm always, I always talk about people like, people don't really pick up cold calls. And I'm like, no, they don't. And they're like, so how does this work? I'm like, because I don't need amazing results to make this work. So you got a dialer. We need fractions of percentages for this thing to be profitable for my clients. Fractions of percentage.

[Tommy Mello]

Are you allowed to use a dialer?

[Peter Roth]

Of course. Yeah, of course. That's all we do.

[Tommy Mello]

So the dialer is always connecting you.

[Peter Roth]

It's called a predictive dialer. So if anyone wants to do this on your own, the thing you should look for right away is what's called a predictive dialer. A predictive dialer is just a fancy term for a multi line dialer. It's a, it's a dialer that'll call more than one line at once. You definitely need that. You want something that can call at least 10 or above. That would be a respectable, a respectable predictive dialer. Look, to build your own call center. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that you 100 need my help. You, a lot of people can do this on their own. As with anything else, of course, it's.

[Tommy Mello]

It's like a door knocking.

[Peter Roth]

There's going to be, there's going to be a lot of pitfalls along the way. There's going to be a lot of challenges and they're going to be expensive challenges. So of course I'm happy to walk you through the four steps to building out your own call center. If you want it done right, well, you know, I mean, you know who to call. But yeah, I mean, I can tell people like, look, here's the four components. You need agents, right? Please hire people that actually know what they're doing. Don't just hire some va. Don't just hire your neighbor, your neighbor's teenage kid. Hire people that already have experience in the specific industry that you're in, whether it's roofing, H vac or whatever, garage door repair, whatever it is that you do. So hire agents with existing experience. Number two, you need good software. I just told you, you find a predictive dialer, if you need one, I'll send you the link to my, to the dialer that we use all the time. It's no problem. Not going to charge you anything for that. You need a good script. A lot of people over overestimate the importance of a script, thinking that it's got to be some kind of, say some magical shit. You don't have to say magical shit. You just have to have a reasonably good offer. A reasonably good offer is 0% financing or even just financing to begin with. As long as you can finance the thing that you sell that's actually good enough to convert and get the numbers that you need to make money is just have financing. If you have special financing, like 0% or, you know, pay nothing now or 90 days, no, whatever. If you got special terms, that's even better. That just makes it more attractive. But you don't need it.

[Tommy Mello]

Okay?

[Peter Roth]

And then the last thing is you need data. You need a good source of data that I wouldn't know where to send people because we're our own data source. I don't have like a brand name that I could send you to, but getting, I mean, you can just come to me because we sell data to other call centers as well. But data is phone numbers to call you need good quality lists of phone numbers to call. And it's got to be good quality because if you get a cheap list, there's going to be so much inaccurate information on there that your agents are going to spend way too much time just listening to wrong names and wrong numbers and disconnected numbers, and it's just going to burn up labor hours. So those are the four main components that you need to build your own call center tomorrow. Now, obviously, there's a lot of stuff that I left off in between. I can't, you know, tell you how to run a call center inside of five minutes. But so obviously, if you need more help, well, now you know who to call. But there's. There's the basic components.

[Tommy Mello]

Is what you do simply outbound only, or is it the lead acts too?

[Peter Roth]

Like I told you? Yes. Outbound is our focus. That's our specialty. Because that's the thing that makes you money, right? No, I mean. Well, inbound makes some money, too. I'm not going to say inbound doesn't make you money, but outbound brings money that you otherwise wouldn't have had, Right? Right. It's found money. It's money that you wouldn't have otherwise made.

[Tommy Mello]

What, what do you. How do you handle turnover? I mean, you get these badass agents that are trained. Do you do performance pay with them?

[Peter Roth]

It's a good question. We used to. We stopped. We stopped doing performance pay because we used to be an entirely. We used to be entirely pay for performance model because we thought, in our dumb brains, we thought, oh, we're entrepreneurs. We love pay for performance. You've always been probably raised on pay for you probably. Your whole life has been pay for performance. Yeah, I know. My whole life has been pay for performance. I've never had a salary. Last salary I had, I was 23 years old and I got fired from that job. So everything since then has been 100% pay for performance. So I thought in my brain that everyone's wired like me and like you came to find out. No. Like, we're entrepreneurs. We're wired very differently. You and I are wired for risk, and we have a high degree of comfort for risk because we know that when we take that risk, on the other side comes reward. Right. And we're far more interested on the reward side and willing to take that risk to get there. The fact of the matter is, most people aren't wired like that. Most people are wired for safety and security and predictability. Most people just want their clock in, clock out. Standard payroll hours and they want the predictability and the safety of that, including call center agents. And I learned that the hard way. We spent years paying them pay for performance and suffering with the ups and downs that came along with it because it created so much uncertainty and anxiety and fear.

[Tommy Mello]

Why not just give them what you give them now? Plus because I guarantee if you looked at all the agents, one, there's a few agents that have tripled the booking rate of others.

[Peter Roth]

What we do now is a hybrid model. So I think exactly what you're saying. We do a hybrid model now where we pay them their hourly, what they expect to make. And agents in Mexico are generally looking to make about seven bucks an hour. Seems to be depending on your industry, but it's right around seven bucks an hour. So we pay them their seven bucks an hour. We don't even really negotiate them. Terrible idea. Just give them what they're asking for, as long as it's reasonable, and then offer them a little bit of a bonus on top of that. We generally will pay them. And this is good. If you're building your own call center, take this advice. Pay them their, you know, seven or eight bucks an hour. If, if it's in Mexico, by the way, it's cheaper. If you go to some different countries in Latin America, the price goes down. You can probably get it down to about five an hour if you're in like Central America or even South America. So pay them their hourly. Don't negotiate, don't try lowballing them. Bad idea. They're just always gonna have one foot on out the door looking for a better paying job. So don't, don't mess around with that. You find someone they like you treat them well, keep them loyal. Number two, pay them a bonus per sit. So if you get a, if you get it. Because there's no shows, right? No shows are a big part of, of outbound, of outbound telemarketing. There's always going to be no shows because there was zero intent to begin with. With that comes no shows. To reduce no shows, you need hyper well trained agents. Hyper well trained agents come at the cost of, of methodical training and paying them well. They need, they need proper, they need to be incentivized properly. So we pay them generally 20 bucks per sit. That can change on your industry, right? If your industry's, you know, if you've got a slimmer margin by, you know, by all means, feel free to adjust that number. But typically we have found that for most industries, 20 bucks per sit is actually Pretty reasonable. That gets you a really nice sweet spot.

[Tommy Mello]

You know what restaurants learned how to do and it completely changed everything for them is if for any reason you need to cancel, they actually ask them and just can you agree? And they ask them to agree that they'll. So they vocally say, yes, I'll call you. And this is a Robert Cheddini influence thing where they figured out if you ask the client, will you call us if you need to cancel for any reason and you get the yes, that little phrase at the end, it's no big deal. Would you just do us a favor? Because literally they have room for other reservations that way. I mean, is that, that like part of your script?

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, yeah, we do a slightly different variation on it. We, we literally finish off with that, but we, we actually proceeded with a little bit of I'm Jewish so we got to throw in a little Jewish guilt in there. Yeah. So I, I channel my mother when I do this part. So it says right before we say goodbye, we always say hey now. By the way, our fill in the blank experts, our H vac experts, roofing experts, our experts are all taking time away from their families to come down to your home tomorrow at 2 o'. Clock. So I just want to make sure that you can be there for that time so that, that you know, they don't waste an important trip where they otherwise could have been with their families.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah, now that's genius.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah. And that's now like, oh shit, that would stink if I left this guy hanging.

[Tommy Mello]

So what, what do you hate about solar? What do you love about it?

[Peter Roth]

Oh God, you had to take me down that path, did you? Solar. I actually, I do love solar. I think solar, solar in, in a nutshell is a fantastic concept. There's nothing wrong with solar at all. Solar has just been butchered with no regulation, no licensing, no nothing. And people were just going apeshit bananas with it. I mean it's, you can't be surprised, of course that would happen. You know, these, these, we're getting 21 year old guys who are coming, you know, coming off of just coming out of high school. Actually even teenagers coming to high school door knocking their way and closing 7, 8, 10 thousand dollar deals, sometimes more than that, you know, straight out of high school. So yeah, I mean that, that, that'll ruin your brain real fast. You know, it'll turn you to mush. So they start making some pretty unethical decisions. They start, It's a really, unfortunately solar is a really easy thing. It's a really easy industry to scam people.

[Tommy Mello]

It's like merchant services.

[Peter Roth]

It's really easy because it's so. It's such an elusive thing to. No one knows how it's priced. It's impossible. It's very difficult to explain the pricing in solar. It's not like a garage door repair. I get it, 150 bucks, right? It's easy. Solar's really complicated and really convoluted. So it's very easy to disguise a scam inside of all that convoluted inside of those convoluted numbers. And that's what was happening. And so now it's going through a major, major shakedown. There's nothing illegal about it. There's nothing unethical about it. It's just not the right thing to do. And it was going to result in an implosion eventually. And now here we are.

[Tommy Mello]

And then the other thing about it is, like, most of the finance companies want to charge 20% minimum off the top.

[Peter Roth]

Top minimum. Got some of them, some of them got up to almost 40%. It was absolutely disgusting what they were doing.

[Tommy Mello]

And a lot of them don't like to work on anything door to door now. I mean, literally, like whether it's water quality, I mean, you know what I mean? It's just. They got a bad. It's getting a bad rap. So H Vac. Why would you. What didn't you like about H Vac? That you're like, I need to switch to solar.

[Peter Roth]

Oh, I loved H Vac. It's just. I was with a partner. He was a technician. He was the, he was the wrench turner guy. And I was like the white collar dude. And he had health issues. He literally suffered like three different heart attacks in the course of a couple months. And so we ended up having to sell our company and I, I would love to have stayed in it. We were doing incredibly well. It was a brilliant industry. I always tell people, like, if they're debate, they. People come to me and ask, hey, should I go to this or this? I'm like, yes, H Vac. If, if you, if you can understand the technical side of it. 100H vac. But it's. There's a lot to know. It's a, It's a complex industry.

[Tommy Mello]

So tell me a little bit about the cigar business, man.

[Peter Roth]

I've just been doing it for. That's my first business ever. I was 24 years old when I got in the cigar business. So I still have a wholesale cigar company. I don't have to Manage it anymore day to day, thankfully, so I don't have to pay too much attention to it. But, yeah, I got into the cigar business. It's my first business I got into when I was 24 years old. I just gotten married. I had no money to. No, you know what I had is I had $5,000 that I got as a bar mitzvah check. Yeah. Swear to God, when I was 13 years old, I had 5,000 bucks to still put aside somewhere. And I told my wife, I was like, hey, let's take that 5,000 bucks and let's take. Let's take the money that we get from this wedding. If we give us any money. It's my first wife. Let's take that money and let's put it towards this business. And she's like, I think you're insane, but I'll trust you.

[Tommy Mello]

Wow.

[Peter Roth]

And lo and behold, man, that thing blew up. And we opened it up in November of 2001, and, dude, this business just took off. It was stupid. It was like a kiosk in a mall. It was a cigar kiosk in a mall. And it took off. It did. Insane money. Like, insane money. I was like, pinching myself. Like, how the hell is this possible? I was 24 years old. I didn't know.

[Tommy Mello]

That's, like a lifestyle business.

[Peter Roth]

What. What.

[Tommy Mello]

What's the difference between, like, home service and that type of. Like, what do you have to be good at to do that?

[Peter Roth]

Which The.

[Tommy Mello]

The cigar business.

[Peter Roth]

What do you have to be good at? You have to love the. You have to. It's a passion thing. It's pure. Like you said, it's a lifestyle. It's a passion thing. You have to be really passionate for it. I couldn't do it again, Like. Like, if you asked me if I wanted to get back into it. No, I would not get back into it. I owned a cigar bar for 15 years. Like, a really upscale, super nice cigar bar for 15 years. The day it shut down, I was the happiest man on earth. Like, I was so burned out of that business, I was so glad to be out of it, so I would never get back into it ever again.

[Tommy Mello]

That's interesting. You know, everybody, every influencer, like, mega influencer, seems like they're going into, like, their own liquor, like their own vodka, their own. Their own tequila.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah. Which is hilarious because, like, now you've seen that, like, this is the. In this country, this is the lowest consumption.

[Tommy Mello]

No one's drinking.

[Peter Roth]

No one's drinking. I went out last night with My accountant, he lives here in Phoenix. We went out and had a cigar. I hadn't had a cigar in like 6 months. Had 3 drinks. I woke up this morning feeling like I had partied for like until 5:00am and I was like, I had three drinks last night. What does it wrong with me?

[Tommy Mello]

You know, it's crazy because a lot of the bars are struggling right now too. I don't know why do you think that is? Is it because marijuana is legal?

[Peter Roth]

Ozempic.

[Tommy Mello]

Is it Ozempic?

[Peter Roth]

Yeah. I swear to God, man. Every, these, the diet, the diet drugs are curbing everyone's. I can tell you because I'm on it. Yeah, I don't, I'm happy to admit it. Yeah, I'm on it. I lost like 40 something pounds on it. So I have no problem admitted. Yeah, it's done amazing stuff, but it's completely crushed my craving for alcohol.

[Tommy Mello]

That is interesting.

[Peter Roth]

No craving for alcohol whatsoever.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah, there's peptides that do the same thing as those.

[Peter Roth]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah, interesting. Wow. Like I talked to all my buddies that own bars and they're like, yeah, it's, it's, it's hard to sell bottle service. It used to be like super easy. And that really just started in the last, I guess since, well, Zombie's been out for a long time, but the last year or so.

[Peter Roth]

And then it's also just kind of like a, a thing with like Gen Z, Gen Y. I'm guessing like those generations are just like, they're just not drinking, you know. Like my stepson, he's 17 and he just doesn't like alcohol. He's tried it, you know, a handful of times. We let him, you know, don't make a big deal out of it. He's like, I just don't like it. It's just gross. And I'm like, I remember when I thought it was gross too when I was a kid, but I still drank it.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah.

[Peter Roth]

You know, and no, he's like. And none of his friends really drink very much. Like one does, but the rest don't.

[Tommy Mello]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

So I got a bunch of closing questions, but what, what have I not asked you that I should ask you?

[Peter Roth]

Well, I think, I think in terms of like results, like money and results, like what is a call center going to do for my company in terms of like my true cost per acquisition? I think that's like, right, that's the, you know, if there is a mic drop moment or like that would be it. Like what is the actual cost for me to get a roofing deal or an H VAC deal or something like that? Right. I think that's really the ultimate proof of the pudding for people. And so what's so cool about call centers is because it's so affordable to get them going and because the numbers are so stacked in your favor, like for roofing, we're seeing the average roofing client across all my clients right now. My average. Their average cost per acquisition, or CAC or customer acquisition, whatever acronym you guys prefer out there with your crazy acronyms. Their customer, their average CPA for roofing deals. Like. Like 400 bucks or just under.

[Tommy Mello]

That's a lot training that goes into how well you do at the kitchen table.

[Peter Roth]

Yes, well, it. But also getting the appointments to sit in the first place. But for sure, absolutely. But getting the appoint. Getting. Getting them to the kitchen table, that's.

[Tommy Mello]

It's half the battle.

[Peter Roth]

That's half the battle.

[Tommy Mello]

If not more.

[Peter Roth]

If not more. Yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

Interesting.

[Peter Roth]

So I think that's, you know, that's where to me, like, like I said, that's the mic drop moment. It's like, okay, Peter, sounds cool. Love what you're saying. But like, what is actually going to cost me to get a blah, blah, blah deal? And like I said, for roofing, man, we're seeing it coming in at just under 400 bucks. Look, to put it in perspective, the average roofer, the average roofer in the United States right now, their average CPA right now is anywhere from on the low end, a thousand bucks to more like 1500, if they're being honest with themselves. A Google lead. Just a paid search lead lead. Not a booked appointment.

[Tommy Mello]

Right.

[Peter Roth]

Just a lead lead. On average for a roofer, over 200.

[Tommy Mello]

Bucks just surprised me.

[Peter Roth]

Just the lead. Yeah. Now we still got to turn it into an appointment. Then you got to turn that appointment into a sit, and then you got to turn that sit into a sale. There's a lot of possibility to degrade and ruin that.

[Tommy Mello]

So you think financing is the key. Just make a zero down, zero for a year, whatever. That's like.

[Peter Roth]

I think that's. If you don't even have financing, like, where are. Like, what are you even. What are you even doing with your life? Yeah, that's like.

[Tommy Mello]

So that's part of the pitch on the phone is your scripting.

[Peter Roth]

If it's not always, oh, well, yeah. And roof and Roman. But not H Vac. Not H Vac.

[Tommy Mello]

You're trying to just get a tune up.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, we're Just trying to get a tune up. Yeah, but in everything else. Yeah, almost everything else we pitch, yes. It's like, hey, no money out of pocket. Hey, nothing down. Hey, you know, like, it's all about like, just ease of use. Don't have to come out of pocket. This is easy.

[Tommy Mello]

What's. If you had a credit one decision or turning point to your career that changed everything, what would it be?

[Peter Roth]

Just not giving up. Honestly, that sounds really corny. That may sound a little bit cheesy, but there were so many times when I wanted to throw in the towel because I had made some shitty decision or something wasn't going my way. And there was a lot of them. One of them was as recently as like two and a half years ago, made some, took a really bad gamble, a really bad risk in business that totally blew up in my face. Almost cost me everything. Almost cost me my marriage, my house, my, my financial career. Literally almost everything. I was on the verge of like about to lose everything. That was two and a half years ago. This year will be the best financial year of my entire, my entire life. So that was the one, that was the 180 degree turn. And it's because I didn't throw in the towel and it's because I didn't quit. It sounds corny, but it's true.

[Tommy Mello]

No, it is. With Scalify. Do you think that this is still 5 to 10 years out? Where do you see it? I mean, is this, this, is this. Because this is the golden era. The next five years, baby boomers retiring, 10,000 a day, 12% of them own a business. I mean, do you see this business around in five to 10 years or where do you see the future going?

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, if I haven't sold it in six or seven years, which is a possibility just depending on where it's at. And I may not, I haven't decided. But if I don't sell the business in five to 10 years, it will be at $100 million a year. It'll be $100 million a year. Business within six or seven years.

[Tommy Mello]

And you don't think that technology, the world's going to change dramatically?

[Peter Roth]

No, because like I said, the good news is we're always protect in the same way that technicians in the home services space are protected from AI because you can't have a technician fix your garage door and you can't have a technician change out your ac. I'm sorry, AI. Yeah, you can't have AI do those things. So those jobs are always gonna be safe. Same thing here because they will never. FCC will never allow AI to take over because it'll ruin everything. You may as well just shut down cold calling for life at that point. So it'll always. This industry will always be protected, which is great news for small business or even any size business owner, because they will now they know that cold calling will always be a potential avenue for them, for lead generation.

[Tommy Mello]

I love it. Give me your number one book of all time. Other than, you know, Napoleon Hill, Dale Carnegie, the Bible, e Myth. I mean, those are some big ones.

[Peter Roth]

But two different books. One would be built to sell. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Tommy Mello]

Jonathan.

[Peter Roth]

Built to Sell was a really great book because even if you never go to sell your business, which is fine, it's not saying that you have to. You need to learn to run your business so that it's not 100% reliant on you. Right. And there's a lot of other books that are similar in that sort of in that vein. But Bill Tissell I thought was just incredibly well written. And then this may sound a little cheesy, but $100 million offers from Alex Hormozi. $100 million offers. I've listened to that. I didn't read it. I listened to it. I listened to that book three times now because every time I listen to it, I'll get one new nugget out of it. And that one new nugget can change my. I've taken two or three nuggets out of that book that have completely changed my business overnight. So that book, I keep re listening to it, like every few months, I'll go back and I'll re listen to it again. I'm like, oh, see, I missed something. And I'll go and I'll implement it.

[Tommy Mello]

You know, Alex says his number one guy that he follows is Robert Cialini. And if you read the book Influencer getting the. Yes, you'll learn a lot. Like, I've worked really closely with Robert Cheddini. He's 80, 81 years old now. But his teachings on influence are like the basics of Alex Hormozi's teachings. Okay, so definitely get the Robert Chittini every one of his books.

[Peter Roth]

Okay.

[Tommy Mello]

And how do people reach out to you if they want to reach out?

[Peter Roth]

Oh, that's easy. You can just go to my website. It's scal scalifyco.com. so Scalify is spelled S C-A L I F Y C O.com scalifyco.com I love it.

[Tommy Mello]

And finally, just close us out with whatever's on your mind, Just give us a final thought.

[Peter Roth]

I am just thankful to be here. I'm thankful. You know, this has been a crazy whirlwind over the past, like, two, three weeks. I've been all over this country. I've been, you know, I was with Lance Bachman two weeks ago. I was with Bradley two weeks before that. Right after this, I'm heading out to Tanner Chitister Studio. Literally in an hour and a half, I'm running over there. Two days after that, I'm with Chad Peterson here in Phoenix on his podcast. So I'm just incredibly thankful that, like, the turn of events and the way life unfolds in front of you, and I'm. I'm here for it, and I'm blessed and I'm thankful, and I couldn't just be a happier person right now. So I'm just happy to be. I'm just. I'm all smiles, man. I'm all smiles.

[Tommy Mello]

It's great.

[Peter Roth]

Yep.

[Tommy Mello]

And one thing I'll give you advice is, like, personal brand is going to become so much more important in the next year, and it continues to be Bradley. All he did was jump on the podcast. I was in his office. He's like, everyone here is an actor. We just put out content. And over time, that grows your influence. And the question is, do you have good influence to give? I mean, I look at this, I'm way smarter than any of these guys, but at the end of the day, I'm like, wait a minute, what do I teach? And then I'm like, we're going to do 300 million. And a lot of people talk about that, their revenue, when they could throw a quarter to that of that into profit and put that in the bank? Those are the people that really I look up to as the guys that are bragging about the profitability and the ebitda. And that's a big missing piece. When I go on podcast, you always hear people bragging about revenue. In fact, I used to do it.

[Peter Roth]

So I have a question for you. Should I start a podcast? What would you say, in your shoes, on the other end of the table for someone where I'm at right now? Because here's. I'll just tell you the challenges, which I'm sure you probably already know the answer. You know, I don't expect it to take off anytime soon. Right. That's really hard to get it to take off. Is it worth it just to be sitting across the table with people that you admire, people you want to do business with people that you maybe otherwise wouldn't have had access to. Is it worth it for that? Is it worth it just for the networking aspect of it? There you go.

[Tommy Mello]

I think all the above. I think a podcast is, it's an older tool. I mean I started mine almost 10 years ago. I would say a podcast is where you get started. I say writing a book, book is next, next level. But you don't just write a book. It's how you launch the book. If you look at buy back your time. Yeah, well, Hermosi killed it. But yeah, Dan Martel as came out of nowhere in the last 18 months because of his book launch. So the idea being when you write a book, can you get on 250 podcasts? And you know, I think if you do it, you got to create something like, like a, a group, even if it's a free group or even if you're charging 500 bucks a month. But the goal should be that you build a media team. You get the guy taking the videos, writing the content, helping you come up with great content and the little fee you charge makes it self propelling. So it continues to grow because influence is one of the most important things that I think there's going to be. I think, in fact I think my personal brand is more important than A one garage door service.

[Peter Roth]

Oh shit.

[Tommy Mello]

I think it's way more important to attract the talent I want. I don't think people follow a company. I think they follow a person.

[Peter Roth]

But let me ask you this question. If you were to ever want to sell your company, I don't know but like what your plan is. But if you were to ever want to sell your company. Right. No investor, private equity, strategic or otherwise, no investor really wants to get into bed with a company that is all based on personal brand for obvious reason. Right? Because when you're. But when you go away, so does everything else. Right? So how do you, how do you, how do you, how do you answer to that? That.

[Tommy Mello]

Well, no matter what, look, the A1 and Tommy Mello build each other up. I, I've sold half the company. We're partners with pe. But the difference is, is they're going to want to tie me up. They're going to want to say how much are you going to roll? Or they, they ruin the multiple.

[Peter Roth]

Right?

[Tommy Mello]

And the biggest thing, this is my biggest roi. But the fact is I learned I could grow way faster with PE with, with a blank checkbook. And they're great partners. But you build both up. The question is Would you go work for a company based on every leader, or do you go get behind the founder? And the fact is people want to know. Every PE company wants to keep the founder on. They learned that lesson in the last two years. That's like founder base gets more money, and you don't lose sight of the founder's vision as long as you, you know, the biggest problem is they give these founders a ton of money and then they go want to travel and do their thing. So depending on the age of the person and how much more they got in the, you know, how much more they got in the tank to go. But. But I think personal brand like Dan Martell just came out with a hot sauce. But the influence is like, why companies sell to you too. So I think the major thing is when you build your influence behind a company, you make sure that the investors understand, if you think about it, they kind of need you too. So that, like, who wouldn't want to roll a lot of equity into their business? Why wouldn't you? What's a better ROI? If you could 3x the business in the next four years, why wouldn't you want to roll a lot?

[Peter Roth]

No, I get it.

[Tommy Mello]

What do people say? You take some chips off the table. But why would anybody like it? Doesn't like Paul Kelly here. Parker and Sons. He's on his fifth turn.

[Peter Roth]

Wow.

[Tommy Mello]

And every turn has been more than the last.

[Peter Roth]

Yeah, of course.

[Tommy Mello]

So I. I just don't understand the concept. Like, you grow your personal brand, it attracts people. I think you need to do both. Like, I was just.

[Peter Roth]

So you're saying the personal brand actually helps with having more exit opportunities within the same.

[Tommy Mello]

Yeah, I think so. And I also think that a lot of people, 48 people that.

[Peter Roth]

That are.

[Tommy Mello]

That are in my training, out of 52 followed me before they followed, cared about a 1.

[Peter Roth]

Oh, I believe that. No, that part I totally understand. For me, it was just always. For me, it was just always trying to weigh out, you know, like, how can you sell a company when you're so closely Gary V. To your name?

[Tommy Mello]

Gary Vee sells companies Kevin o' Leary now is invested in, and I was just with them. I think 44 companies, like all these people know is you could build multiple brands. But the question is, a one probably is gonna get into flooring and storage and front doors and windows and other things like that. So I could use the personal brand to help grow the business.

[Peter Roth]

Sure.

[Tommy Mello]

And if I'm an investor or an lp, I'm going, that's the people we need to get involved with. Cause they got an upper hand on everybody.

[Peter Roth]

Yep.

[Tommy Mello]

So there's two sides to think of it. But I think, look, I mean that's. You're here today, I met you, we're going to follow up on this stuff. I mean I met Robert Chedidi, Dan Martell was in here, Jeremy Miner's in here. Like, you know, you get access to people, you see who's real and you start to build a network. I don't need a lot of friends. I just need the right friends.

[Peter Roth]

Oh, you know what I mean?

[Tommy Mello]

People that I can stand behind. And this is a great vehicle to get there. And for some reason, once you make Gary Vaynerchuk alone just put out content about his wine a long, long time ago, now he charges anywhere from 500,000 to a million to show up. Yeah, so. And by the way, I don't think it's all about the money. You know who did I was with Damon John.

[Peter Roth]

Okay.

[Tommy Mello]

You know Damon John out of Shark Tank, he's like, I never get sick of being famous because people come to me that want to build the American dream, which is a business. So they want to change their family generational wealth. So he's like, I don't get mad if somebody comes up to me at a restaurant says I'm trying to change my life. They don't ask me to sing my tune or was my favorite movie Top Gun or Maverick or whatever. You know, he's like, they like me because I know how to turn turn around businesses. So anyways, Peter, I could talk to you all day, brother. This is great. I know you got a busy schedule.

[Peter Roth]

I appreciate you being here. Thank you. I really appreciate it.

[Tommy Mello]

We're gonna follow up. Thanks brother.

[Peter Roth]

Thank you.

[Tommy Mello]

Hey, leave a review. If you haven't left us a review, do me a favor, leave a review. Share this with someone you care about. Thanks guys. Hey there. Thanks for tuning into the podcast today. Before I let you go, I want to let everybody know that Elevate is out and to buy. I can share with you how I attracted a winning team of over 700 employees in over 20 states. The insights in this book are powerful and can be applied to any business or organization. It's a real game changer for anyone looking to build and develop a high performing team like over here at A1 garage door service. So if you want to learn the secrets that help me transfer my team from stealing the toilet paper to a group of 700 plus employees rowing in the same direction, head over to elevateandwin.com podcast and grab a copy of the book book. Thanks again for listening and we'll catch up with you next time on the podcast.