← The How To Podcast Series - Podcast Co-Hosts, Practical Podcast Tips, and Podcast Community
The How To Podcast Series - Podcast Co-Hosts, Practical Podcast Tips, and Podcast Community
E618 - Finding Your Voice, Creating A Companion Podcast, Dreamful, Buzzcast, PodMatch with Guest CO-HOST - Jordan Blair
00:48:22
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- [00:00]
Dave
Okay, we're rolling. Hey, welcome back to the how to Podcast series. It's Dave with you. Hope you're doing well. I have a guest on the show. I'm thrilled. I've been listening to this podcaster for a long time, excited to have her on the show. Her name is Jordan Blair. She is one of the co hosts of Buzzcast, a podcast put on by buzzprout. Jordan is on with Kevin and Albin from buzzpro, and they have a lot of fun. They talk about the podcasting industry, they talk about Sprout and all that fun stuff. A great show. This is one side of Jordan. There's another side of Jordan. She has her own show as well, which I've been doing for a long time, called Dreamful Podcast. And it. It's a podcast that's designed to actually put you to sleep, which is great. It's an a. It's a great idea, and you get to see a totally different side of Jordan on Dreamful. So we. Jordan and I connected through Podmatch. So Alex Sanfilippo and the team, again, big home run to have Jordan on the show. I know that Jordan and Alex from podcast do these really interesting photo opportunities when they get together at conferences. I need. I don't really know the story behind that, but I'll find out someday. Jordan was great on the show. I want to get to it because she's just a lot of fun to talk to. And, yeah, it's. It's a great. It's a great conversation. So are you ready? Let's. I'm gonna. Let's go to meet Jordan. You're going to love this. Here's my chat with Jordan Blair from Buzzcast and Dreamful and all things podcasting. Here's Jordan. I get to talk to somebody that's been keeping me company when I work overnights at my job. I've been listening to this person forever. If you want the best podcast to put you to sleep, not because it's boring, but because it's amazing and it's designed that way to help you fall asleep. Dreamful is the name of the podcast, and Jordan Blair is here. I am so thrilled. Thanks to Podmatch and Alex and the team for making this happen, because I get to talk to somebody that I've been admiring for a long time. So, Jordan, welcome to the show. Nice to have you here.
- [02:08]
Jordan Blair
Wow. Thank you so much, Dave. That is probably the nicest intro I've ever had. And thank you so much. It's. It's an honor to finally meet you. You know, you've. You've sent in, like, email messages, I think, and then.
- [02:22]
Dave
Right.
- [02:22]
Jordan Blair
Like, we actually get to talk now. Like, that's the beauty of podcasting. It's just. It's cool to be able to connect now.
- [02:27]
Dave
Yeah. I think my first introduction to you was through buzzcast listening to you, Alvin and Kevin, and the fun that the three of you have on that show. It's. It is the coolest podcast about podcasting and from a hosting site nonetheless. Like, the three of you just have so much fun on that show.
- [02:48]
Jordan Blair
It's wild.
- [02:49]
Dave
You don't hide it. It's great.
- [02:50]
Jordan Blair
Yeah. I mean, it's. It's absolutely wild because I was a fan of. I was a super fan of Buzzcast, like, to the point where when I went to my first podcast movement and, like, actually met them in person, I was fangirling really hard. And then I got to guest on that podcast a couple times, and then they were like, hey, we need a podcast producer. Do you want to join us? And I felt like my world was just. I don't know. I don't know. Like, it was just like, is this even, like, real life? Because becoming a co host of a podcast that you're a super fan of is not something you really anticip when you, like, become a fan of a podcast. Like, if you told me that that was going to be me, like, six years ago, I. I don't know, I probably would have passed out. But I'm a huge fan. There is a lot of fun that they have on it, which is part of what? I don't know. It just. It makes it feel so, like, friendly and approachable, you know, the way that the guys handle it, and they just make it feel like, I don't know, just friends hanging out and stuff, you know, but still informative.
- [03:56]
Dave
So if you haven't heard about Cast before, it's a great show. Here's a little taste of the podcast, and what I want to just highlight is this is one side of Jordan and her voice and how she shows up on the mic. And we've talked about this on the show before that as podcasters on the mic, we need to make sure that we know our instrument, we know our voice, we know how to use it, and use it for the right context, in the right room and in the right environment. This is Jordan being Jordan, and I love that she's equal part of the show, and the show really is great because she's on it. So here's Jordan, and here's a little taste of the show again. Link in the show notes. Go listen to buzzcast. Here we go.
- [04:38]
Jordan Blair
Welcome back to Buzzcast Podcast about all things podcasting from the people at Buzzsprout. Today, we are going to be talking about podcasting myths. Specifically, we're going to be busting podcasting myths. So we're going to go over some of the Internet's most prolific podcasting myths, urban legends, and we're going to decide if it is busted, plausible, confirmed. Where are the other ones? Like, confirmed with, like, nuances?
- [05:05]
Alvin
Yes.
- [05:06]
Jordan Blair
I think for the sake of simplicity, we'll just leave it at busted, plausible, or confirmed.
- [05:11]
Alvin
Yes. The official categories that a myth can fall into are busted, plausible, or confirmed.
- [05:17]
Dave
So if you want a good example of a. A podcast hosted with three people as the hosts together, it's a great example, and it works. And everybody has their role. Everybody knows what they're doing, and they. They just do a great job. So let's get back into the conversation with Jordan. Here we go. It's a smart show. It's funny. There's so many inside jokes. If you listen for a long time, you'll get them all. We chatted. There's one that was about socks, which was several episodes about socks. And I'm like, oh, I got to get in on this. So I'm throwing my comments in, and then hearing you guys mention me on there, I'm like, yes, I got on the show. So it was, like, the coolest thing ever.
- [05:54]
Jordan Blair
So I love that.
- [05:55]
Dave
Really fun. Good. So you have that show. You've been doing that for a long time with Kevin and Albin. You have your own podcast as well. Can we talk a little bit about Dreamful?
- [06:03]
Jordan Blair
Oh, I would love to. Absolutely. Yeah. Dreamful. I mean, so dreamful. I started that back in 2019. And the reason why I started that podcast was because I got my kids into podcasts a little bit, and they were wanting to listen them to go to sleep. And at that point before the pandemic, you know, there was just a few, like, quality sleep podcasts, and most of them were, like, 10 to 15 minutes long and were very, like, bubbly and kind of more for, like, toddler story time. And it just wasn't what I was looking for. And I have a background in theater, and I was also a children's librarian for a number of years. And so I was like, okay, well, I'm just gonna do it myself, because how hard could it possibly be to start a podcast, right? And so, you know, I. I watched all the YouTube videos, and I listened to, like, how to start a Podcast podcast series. I just was consuming everything I could for a couple months, and then I started Dreamful, and then it grew into unexpectedly, like, my career, which is so cool.
- [07:08]
Dave
It's amazing. Yeah. So you're taking books that are now in the public domain and you're reading them to us so you don't have to worry about copyright and all that. But the one thing I love about is the sound design behind what you do. Like, talk about, like, slipping into something so nice and warm and soft and just, like, it's, like, the best accompaniment for anybody that wants to fall asleep to some great content as well.
- [07:34]
Jordan Blair
Yeah.
- [07:35]
Dave
Can you tell a little bit about the sound design and stuff behind it? Because it's beautiful how you guys pull this all together.
- [07:41]
Jordan Blair
Thank you so much. Yeah, I was trying to copy the style of, like. Do you ever hear those, like, calm app stories where they have, like, a list actors and there's this beautiful, like, music bedding beneath their narrations? And so I was basically trying to make my version of that because I really liked how it sounded. And I didn't like when I would be falling asleep and it would just be somebody talking. There's something about the silence and someone. Someone's voice, like, punching through the silence that would kind of jolt me awake. And so I felt like I needed that music bedding in my podcast, too.
- [08:17]
Dave
So it's one thing to talk about a podcast, it's another thing to hear it. So here's a good example of that music bed that Jordan's talking about behind her words. And compare and contrast Jordan's voice on Dreamful to what you heard for Buzzcast. And now there's another side of Jordan. And again, let's go back to this. Knowing how to use your voice for the setting and the tone of your show. This is the tone of your podcast. This is a great textbook example. Somebody knows how to create an environment within her podcast. So she doesn't have one gear. She doesn't have one way of using her instrument, her voice. She tailors it for the audience. So when you approach your next podcast episode, I want you to start using your instrument and maybe in some new ways, and just take and take some examples from Jordan and how she approaches Dreamful in comparison to how she shows up on Buzzcast. So it's a great lesson, and I just love that she demonstrates it so well. So here's a little taste of Dreamful to kind of now, don't fall asleep, but Here's a little taste of Dreamful. It's a great relaxing podcast. Here we go.
- [09:34]
Dreamful Narrator
One sunny day in April long ago, a maiden sat in a lonely tower looking out across the Hellespont. At her feet, the blue ripples slapped lazily on the beach and played a soothing lullaby upon the stones. And the white sailed ships floated slowly down the stream from Sestos, carrying the rich freights of corn and merchandise. To the north, she could see the port of Sestos with the great walls running down from the city to the harbor and the masts of the ships as they lay at anchor by the quay across the water facing the tower.
- [10:17]
Dave
So there you go. You know, somebody's gonna love this podcast. Going to love Dreamful. So please share the link in the show notes for with your friends and family. It's an amazing podcast. So I. We talked a little bit as well. Jordan. I started talking about how she got the intro music for her show. Now you can go out and spend a ton of money on all these different places possibly, or there's some free places to get music, but it's the same music everybody else has. She had a very unique way of coming up with the music for her show as the intro I love. She kind of walks us through how this even happens. Here's what Jordan had to say.
- [10:48]
Jordan Blair
And so my husband actually, like, he wrote the theme music for my podcast and he couldn't play it now. If you asked him, he actually was just like dinking around on the guitar on the porch. And I overheard it and I said, wait, stop. Like, that's the exact song that I'm looking for for my theme music. And so I had him, like, come in and we set up the microphone, like, pointed at his guitar and we recorded that. So that's my theme music for. And it's really this beautiful kind of guitar sound. And then it fades into the music bedding and the music bedding. I mean, for a long time I was sourcing that from just Creative Commons sites, you know, like freemusicarchive.org is a huge one. You can get stuff from like YouTube Music and Incompetech. There's a bunch of different places that you can source these creative common tracks. And so I was able to just kind of put that quietly underneath the story that I was reading. And so that's really how I've done the music for it.
- [11:51]
Dave
And you have a great community around your show as well. You have great support from your community, which is great.
- [11:58]
Jordan Blair
Yeah.
- [11:58]
Dave
Talk a little bit. How, how did you start building a community around your podcast?
- [12:02]
Jordan Blair
Well, what's funny is I had heard other podcasts because I listened to podcasts for a long time before I started my own. And they all would say, oh, go support our podcast at Patreon. You'll get bonus episodes. And so in my mind, when I started my podcast, I was like, okay, well, I need to have that, because that's what podcasters do. And so I started up, like, uploading bonus episodes just right out of the gate. But it was really funny because I had created the, like, Patreon account and stuff like that before I even launched my podcast. And what I did was I just uploaded my trailer and I said, coming soon. And then my husband shared it to Facebook and was like, hey, my wife is, you know, she's starting this really cool thing, and I'm really proud of her. And then, like, five friends and family, like, my mom and a couple friends became supporters of the podcast, like, before it even launched, which, thanks, mom.
- [12:56]
Dave
Right.
- [12:57]
Jordan Blair
And so I was. I was kind of like, set up out of the gate with these supporters, and I felt so excited about it. And then that actually gave me more confidence when I was doing my call to action at the beginning of the episode, just saying, you know, if you find value in this episode, go ahead and support it. There's a link in the show notes. You can do that. And I was so surprised because in the first, like, couple months, I started getting supporters, and then it, like, grew and grew and grew, and, like, yeah, supporter income is by far the best, like, monetization I have for that podcast. It's amazing what you can do with listener support.
- [13:35]
Dave
So start building your community right away, even before your podcast launches. Great advice from Jordan. I did ask as well from Jordan to kind of give us, like, a starting point. Where would she send us? Or send a new person who wants to have a podcast? What would be the first place to go to get the knowledge and to figure out their path as a podcaster? This is what Jordan offers as some advice.
- [14:02]
Jordan Blair
Oh, man. I mean, obviously, I have to plug the buzzsprout, like, how to start a podcast guide, and then there's so many wonderful podcasts. You know, like, people were saying, like, your podcast or, like, buzzcast or how to start a podcast series. There's so many resources out there for podcasters, and I highly recommend doing ones where it's people speaking from, like, an authentic place and not trying to, like, sell anything, such as, you know, your podcast. And it. It just. I think that, like, when you talk to independent creators and you get in community with them, that is super helpful. But for someone who is wanting to do like a more creative project, there's so many great resources out there for like narrative documentary style ones. So like NPR has a podcast series and Gimlet has Gimlet Academy. And it teaches you how to, you know, get good tape and like how to content edit and how to go into these like in person interviews or remote interviews with a set list of like, what you want to accomplish, what you want them to talk about. Then there's. So there's like a little bit more like journalistic style stuff. And then you have podcasts like Start Here. And these are from the. I think it's called Start Here. And it's from the creators of welcome to Night Vale. And they talk about creating like they, they do like homework episodes, if that makes sense. Like at the end of every episode they have like a homework thing, like write a paragraph about this or create this sort of thing. And I felt like it was a really good exercise in fictional storytelling. And they talk a lot about the power of podcasting. Because if you have a YouTube video and you're wanting to do a fictional sort of thing, let's pretend that you have a science fiction story. Well, if you do a YouTube video and you're trying to do some sort of like video production version of this science fiction story, you have costumes, you have makeup, you have to build sets, you have to get actors, you have a movie, it's a full movie. And especially if you want to do a really good job with it. But when you're podcasting, I mean, it's theater of the mind. So you can have these sound effects that you can source on Pixabay and all these free places, you know, I mentioned free music archive, all these different places you can get free sound effects. And so instead of like having a full set of being in the cockpit of a spaceship, now you just have like little beeps and boops and maybe there's like an ambient like air sound of like the air vent going through the cockpit. And you can have like the sound of buttons being pushed and stuff like that. And it's just, it creates this really immersive storytelling at no cost. And it's so much easier, especially for fictional storytelling. I just think podcasting is such an amazing space for that.
- [17:06]
Dave
So the how to Podcast series, we talk about using your voice and understanding how to use it as an instrument. Jordan is a great example of someone who knows how to use her Instrument. You've heard the examples again of Buzzcast and now Dreamful. And I just was asking her, like, how did she come to, to learn all this and her approach to dreamful in relation to buzzcast and the comparison. And she said something that actually caught me off guard because I didn't really anticipate that she would go there with this answer. I was shocked and surprised and her response to this was very interesting. So be shocked and surprised with me here. Listen to what Jordan says right here. And when about talking about her shows in this context around using her voice as an instrument and the difference between the two shows. Listen to this. You ready? Okay, here we go.
- [18:01]
Jordan Blair
It's so funny that you mentioned that. I actually don't normally tell people that I host dreamful bedtime stories, like, ever. I, I don't talk about it. I try to avoid it at all costs. Because if you hear me talking, I mean, on Buzzcast, like, I am loud and vivacious and it's not, it's one of those things like if I told people like, oh yeah, I have a sleep podcast, they'd be like, okay, you know, right. But it's so funny. When I created Dreamful and it's, it's changed, it's evolved. So like you said, it takes time. You're, you're going to find your footing, you're going to find your voice in these story, in, in your podcast, in storytelling, everything like that. But it's good to have a place of, okay, what am I trying to, like, model myself after? One of the easiest ways to improve upon something is, is to impersonate it. And I know that that's kind of like a weird thing, but I heard, I heard this from a choir teacher. I had like a vocal coach. And they said one of the best ways to learn to sing is to copy how someone else sings. And so if you try to impersonate it, it's like your, your body naturally tries to do that thing. And so what's so funny is when I created dreamful bedtime stories, I was trying to figure out what kind of voice would be the most restful to me. Like, what? When I picture a beautiful bedtime storytelling voice, what do I picture? And what I modeled my voice after initially was Galadriel from Lord of the Rings. Because I was like, yeah, the elves have this like just lovely level headedness and there's like almost like a flowiness to the cadence of how they speak and everything just kind of goes. There's nothing abrupt or abrasive about the way that they speak, and it's so beautiful and so soft, and it just makes you. I don't know, it's just like a warm hug when they speak, and it's captivating. When I first started, I was. I was really trying to achieve that. I was just picturing Galadriel in my head when I was reading a story. And then slowly, as I got more comfortable and I real. I. I found my own voice. And so it's a little bit different now. Now I've kind of, like, sort of evolved into a little bit more of, like, a transatlantic accent. Like, just a. Just a kiss of it. And so it's still not exactly my voice, but it's like a version of my voice that's just kind of like, been modeled after all these different things. And so I think, yeah, experimenting with stuff, you know, how do you want. How do you want these, like, character voices to sound? Because really, when you're doing fictional storytelling or when you're narrating a series, it might not be exactly your voice. I wouldn't personally narrate a series. Like, if. Even if I was doing a true crime, I probably wouldn't narrate it in this voice, but I would find some sort of voice. Like, maybe I would, like, model myself after, like, Sarah Koenig or, you know, something like that. But just think about who you. Who you're trying to emulate in a way, and then make it your own. Do little tweaks here and there, and then you'll find your voice, I think.
- [21:11]
Dave
Yeah. Somebody reached out to me recently and said, dave, when did you find your voice as a podcaster? And I said, I'll let you know. I don't know. I haven't. I haven't yet. I still. I still wrestle with it. I listen to myself and go, well, it could be better. But then I had somebody reach out to me. This was very interesting. Jordan.
- [21:31]
Jordan Blair
Yeah.
- [21:31]
Dave
They said, hi, Dave. I listen to your show. I'm like, well, that's good. And they said, but I don't listen to your show for the content. And I'm like, wait a minute. I love my content. I love throwing my all my heart into what I talk about. They said, I will never start a podcast. Oh, my gosh. But I listen to your show because I love your voice. And you keep me company.
- [21:52]
Jordan Blair
Yeah.
- [21:53]
Dave
And you keep showing up for me. So I'll listen to you talk about anything. Keep talking. But I'll never start a podcast. But thank you for your show. And I'm like, I didn't expect that kind of email.
- [22:04]
Jordan Blair
Yeah.
- [22:05]
Dave
I'm expecting, like, I want to start a show, blah, blah, blah. But no, it was just, hey, I love the. I love your voice. I love how you show up. I love that you're here.
- [22:13]
Jordan Blair
Yeah.
- [22:14]
Dave
And I didn't anticipate, Jordan, when I first started podcasting, the connection with an audience through content, through having great people on my screen like you on here with me today, but all of those connection points, but then just the fact that I would be somebody's company.
- [22:28]
Jordan Blair
Yeah.
- [22:29]
Dave
Right. And when I listen to your show, when I listen to Dreamfill and I listen to Buzzcast, I. When I listen to Buzzcast, I feel like I'm part of the party, which is great. Right. And when I listen to Dream Phil, I just feel like I'm. It's made for me. Right. So it's the companionship side of podcasting that I don't hear a lot of people talk about.
- [22:47]
Jordan Blair
Yeah.
- [22:47]
Dave
Just showing up and being a regular contributor to somebody's week, they build you into their routine. They. They anticipate you showing up, and they just care about you. Right. And I never really. Didn't really think about that when it first started, but to get that email saying, I don't listen to your show for the content, I'm like, wow. But that connection point I just thought was really interesting.
- [23:10]
Jordan Blair
You know, we've had a lot of discussions about, there was a hot word last year. Parasocial was a big hot word. And I get it to a point, but at the same time, I also feel like parasocial, like, comparing the relationship that listeners have with podcasters to, like, a parasocial relationship. Like, yes, I think it does check some of those boxes, but I also think it kind of, like, waters down that connection, too, because there's something so intimate about podcasting. Like, you're in someone's ears. You. You show up for them week after week. They're familiar with you. They know your inside stories. It's not like being on Instagram or something like that. Right. Like, it's just. It's not that kind of parasocial relationship. It's. It's like being on the phone with somebody. Like, if you were to call somebody every single week and be like, hey, how was your week? How are you doing? And they just tell you all about their lives, like, you would. You'd be invested in their life stories. And I also think that parasocial relationship doesn't quite fit the podcasting space either, because when listeners, like, often As a podcaster, even if you're a big podcaster, even if you're like a top 1% podcaster, you're not getting that many emails, you're not getting that many messages from your listeners on social media and things like that. And I mean, like my podcast, I had millions and millions of downloads. I get like one email like once every six months. Right. And, and it means so much and it goes into a fan mail folder because I have to like, go back and look at it when I'm feeling lonely in my podcasting. And so I think that there is something to that where, like, when someone reaches out to you, it's so meaningful as a podcaster, even if they're like, yeah, I actually don't take your advice ever. I just like hearing your laugh or I like hearing you talk about your day or I really love when you just have this like small update on segment and you talk about your lives. Like, I don't know, I just think it's so amazing.
- [25:07]
Dave
It's very personal. Again, it's so intimate because we're right in people's ears. Yeah, we're, you know, we're generally listened to by one person at a time for the most part. So you're not like in a public setting speaking to a group of people. You're speaking to one. And the beautiful thing too is you can talk about. There's podcasts that talk about some pretty heavy topics and nobody knows what you're listening to as a listener. Yeah, I could be listening to Ariana Grande. I could be listening to Somebody help me get through some pretty significant trauma in my life and nobody knows what I'm listening to right now. Yeah, I'm just, I have my headphones on, I have my earbuds in. So there's a, there's a, there's a connection. There's a deep connection there, I think, between audience and, and hosts. And I think that's one thing. As new podcasters, I always encourage them to go listen. People are going to come to your show, they're going to fall in love with you and what you do, but hold that relationship gently because those people are, they're building their world around you and they, they really love what you do. So don't come into this kind of half hearted, like, yeah, yeah, you know, you got to show up for these people. They really do care about you over time.
- [26:22]
Jordan Blair
Yeah, it does make a big difference when you genuinely show up and you're not, I think one of the most, like, alienating things for listeners is when you have like 30% programmatic ads, like these commercial style ads over your podcast and just cutting the interview off mid sentence, that drives me crazy. And as a listener, it makes me feel like the, the host doesn't value me as a listener and doesn't value my time and value, you know, my, I don't know, I guess my sensibilities, you know, I'm not clutching my pearls or anything. But that just, that's just, to me, it just doesn't make sense to be like slapping these ads mid sentence when someone's talking about a harrowing tale from like their military experience or something like that. And it just cuts off mid word. And you're like, what is happening here? It just, it, it's, it's very like haphazard and it makes you go, I don't think they're really in this. Like their heart's not in it. And you feel that as a listener.
- [27:20]
Dave
So Jordan spends a lot of time doing like, events and conferences and meetups and all kinds of things to support Buzzsprout. And she's one of the faces of Buzzsprout. You go to an event, make sure you go to the, the booth and talk to her. As I just asked Jordan, what kind of questions are you getting out there in the wild about podcasting? And she has an example and what her response was to again, one of these more recent questions. Here's what Jordan came back with.
- [27:48]
Jordan Blair
You know, I had an, I had an interesting question posed to me at like a cocktail party or something. There was this guy and he, and he mentioned, you know, I'm having a really hard time getting listeners to reply to anything. You know, I have a survey or I have fan mail or I have like, listener support, and no one's doing it. Like, no one's actually going forward with supporting the show, whether it be like leaving a review or, or clicking the famous button or anything like that. And I said, okay, well, are you doing a call to action in your episode? He's like, yep, every episode I do a call to action. And I said, okay, well where is the call to action in your episode? Is it at the beginning? Do you like, take a break during the episode to just like, let people know, like, hey, here's how you can support the show. Or like, is it at the end? He's like, oh, no, I always do it at the end after we close out. And so I said, okay, well, there's your problem. Because here's what happens is as soon as you say all Right. Well, that's all for this episode. Thanks for joining us. They're out. They're. They're clicking exit on the apps and they're going to hop over to the next thing. They're clicking Skip. And what you have to do is if you are going to have those call to actions, if you must have them at the end of the episode, like, thank the guest and say, hey, listeners, if you want to support the show, here's how you can do it. Click the link, do all this stuff. And that's all for this week. Thank you so much. And then you can end the episode because there's these. There's these little cues that causes listeners to just dip out. And if you go into. This is another thing he didn't even know about. And I, like, I was so excited to show him because I was like, this is going to change your life. If you log into Apple Podcasts or Spotify on your dashboard, you can see there's like, it's called listener retention or episode consumption. Sometimes it's these analytics. When you go into the episode, you can see a graph and it's like the time spent listening and you can see where listeners are hitting skip or where they're exiting. And so if you're wrapping things up, like, I don't know, five minutes before your episode actually ends, where you're saying, like, okay, well, I think that's all for this interview. And then you see people dipping down, Stop it. Don't do that anymore. Maybe have your call to actions in the beginning of the episode. You know, just try it. Or use Dynamic Insertion, the dynamic content tool and buzzsprout's amazing. For this, you. You can just do these announcements and insert it across your entire back catalog or on specific episodes if you just want to experiment with it and see if, you know, you start getting more people responding or leaving reviews, things like that. It's. I think that was one of the best conversations I had, the most recent conference.
- [30:43]
Dave
Yeah. One thing I'm doing on this show, after episode 500, I went, I went. And what I'm doing is putting a little extra thing at the very end. So we hear the goodbye, it's all done. Music done, call to action, finish over, finished. And then there's like a little pause and I come back, you're still here. Great. Everyone else is gone, so it's just you and me. So here's. Here's a frequent question I get about podcasting now. Nobody else is going to hear this, just you and me.
- [31:10]
Jordan Blair
Oh, how Fun.
- [31:11]
Dave
And then I do this little extra, extra thing at the very, very end.
- [31:14]
Jordan Blair
Yeah.
- [31:15]
Dave
What's happened is my listenership. You talk about my how long people listen. I've kind of been getting, like you said, kind of going off near the end, but I'm finding a little bump now because people are listening longer because they don't know what the extra tip is. Doesn't show in my show notes, doesn't show anywhere else. It's only for the people who know about it. And I don't know. I just talked about it. I don't talk about it on the show very much because I want people to find it organically and just be like, what's this? Why does the episode keep going? Why is there a wait? There's Dave's back again. What's going on here? Yeah, so it's like a bonus bonus at the end of the show.
- [31:49]
Jordan Blair
I love that idea. That is such a fun idea to, like, reward the people who are sticking around. We, I don't know, I. I don't want to say punish our listeners who stick around, but we have, at the end of every buzzcast episode, we start doing a post show and we literally have our theme music play out. And then it waits a few seconds and then we start talking about whatever comes to mind, whatever is going on. It might be like Alvin's preparing for some random marathon where he's gonna, like, run in the snow or something. Or it might be Kevin griping about something with Pickleball again. Or it might be me talking about, like, video games, like, just something stupid. And it's so funny because that has become kind of a fun part of our podcast. And it's really fun when we get, like, listener messages coming in and they're like, hey, any update on this thing? It's like, it. We can't really address it, like, in the episode because it was just this random conversation we had at the end of the episode. But yeah, it is so fun to leave these little, I don't know, Easter eggs in your podcast. It's. It makes it so much fun.
- [32:57]
Dave
So I'm just jumping in here. Okay, so let's give you an example. There's a short example of what Jordan's talking about, about this outro bonus that they do on Buzzcast, because that actually might be where I got the idea. As I think about it now, maybe that's where I got it from, because I listen all the time. Mine is just in the form of a question, kind of a one on one with my listener but maybe this is actually where I got it as I think about this. So here's an example. This is Buzzcast. The very end of the show. The show ends, the music ends, we're done, and then they come back. And I think the first time I heard this, I'm like, have I jumped to the next episode? Have I skipped something? I didn't touch my phone. But what a great joy and a bonus to have a little bit more time with the people you love on Buzzcast. And, yeah, it's pretty fun. So here you go. Here's a great example of that bonus thing they do on Buzzcast. If you've never listened to the end of the show, you've missed this. Here's this. Here's a little sample.
- [33:52]
Jordan Blair
So until next time, thanks for listening and keep podcasting.
- [34:00]
Alvin
All right, special request. Can we do the world's shortest post show today?
- [34:04]
Jordan Blair
Yeah.
- [34:04]
Alvin
You guys know that we are kicking off the next work cycle in 19 minutes. And so here's how we work. We work in six week cycles here at Buzzsprout, and then we take a week or two off to kind of cool down, make sure bugs are handled, all that stuff. 18 minutes, explore. 18 minutes now, clock's ticking. Explore new ideas, and then we kick off another work cycle. Well, one of these work cycles is kicking off today in 18 minutes.
- [34:28]
Jordan Blair
And who scheduled that?
- [34:29]
Alvin
I did. I did. Because I'm bad at calendar management. So the whole company is getting together in 18 minutes, and I've got to be ready and prepped to this meeting. But here's what I want to say for the world's shortest post show that's relevant to anybody who's still hanging around listening to this. We've got one of the most exciting work cycles. I'm not going to tell you anything that's in it. I'm just going to tell you I'm super excited about it. There is, like, some really great work that's going to be rolling out on the Buzzsprout platform in somewhere between four and six weeks from the day you're hearing this. And I'm super excited about it. I can't wait to have this meeting, but I have to run and get fully.
- [35:05]
Dave
What do you. What do you have to prep for this?
- [35:07]
Alvin
I just have to get in the right mental space. I need to get a drink. I need to.
- [35:11]
Jordan Blair
You need to get away from us.
- [35:12]
Alvin
We've just been online talking to each other for almost two hours. Come on, you're dragging it out. All right.
- [35:20]
Jordan Blair
Okay, bye.
- [35:21]
Alvin
You guys are awesome. Thank you. I'll see you in 17 minutes.
- [35:24]
Dave
For people who are learning more about Buzzsprout, you obviously are part of the team, and it sounds like a great place to. To work. Great team environment.
- [35:33]
Jordan Blair
Oh, yeah.
- [35:34]
Dave
Super supportive for somebody who's starting a podcast and they want to come and pick a hosting site. Can you talk a little bit about buzzsprout? I know it's not meant to be a big buzzsprout ad. We're here to talk about you, but I want to honor them too. But can you talk a little bit about buzzsprout and what they do for podcasters?
- [35:49]
Jordan Blair
Wow. Thank you so much. Yeah, I mean, buzzsprout, that's how I started my podcast, before I even worked with them. And so bestbrow is a hosting platform. We help you to start your podcast. We make it super easy. It's just a very simple process. The UI is beautiful. It's easy to use, very intuitive. And so we make it easy for you to start podcasting, and then we also provide tools and features for you to keep podcasting and to grow as a podcaster. So, you know, we had talked a lot about, like, fan mail, so there's this feature that's included in all plans called fan mail, where listeners can tap a text to show, link in the show notes, and send you a message directly from their messaging app. We also have websites built in for all podcasters. There's dynamic content like we talked about earlier. You can make sound bites, and we try to make everything just so easy and accessible. And it's all included in your plan. There's like, advanced analytics and everything. And I think a lot of podcast hosting companies, they all have really great features. Everyone has different features, different price points, things like that. And I really feel like buzzbrow is just this, like, nice premium experience where you get really taken care of. Our support team is a feature of buzzsprout. It's probably like, the number one feature of buzzsprout. We are so proud of our support team and is all real people who are the most amazing people. It's. It's like moms, like former teachers and bakers. I got just all these people who are incredible at helping you through your podcast journey, whether it be, you know, you encounter an issue with your podcast, or you write them and you say, hey, I can't decide between these two. Cover our options. Which one do you like? And then they'll go ask everyone in the office, which one do you like better? And then they'll write you back. Like, we have the best support team. So that's. That's really. That's buzzsprout in a nutshell. You know, we just. We really want to see independent podcasters succeed, and those are the people that we really cater towards and, you know, cheer on.
- [38:06]
Dave
Yeah. Okay. So I've been with, with buzzsprout for a long time for my Living the Next Chapter podcast, my author podcast. I have nine shows. Jordan, by the way, that's wild. It's ridiculous. Don't do that. Don't do it.
- [38:18]
Jordan Blair
Don't do it.
- [38:19]
Dave
But, yeah, don't do it.
- [38:20]
Dreamful Narrator
But.
- [38:20]
Dave
But, yeah. So Living the Next Chapter has been on Buzz pro from day one. I'm about three and a half years in. I have 720 episodes or something at this point. That's crazy for that show. Yeah, I just. The support for that show through Buzzsprout has been amazing. I just. I love everything I love as a user, I gotta tell you, I just. It's really, really good. So I'm speaking out of my knowledge firsthand because it's. It's a great platform. I love it. I don't want to keep you all day, Jordan, because I know you got lots of podcasting stuff to do. Oh, yeah. Let's kind of wrap up as far as some. Some advice from you to that fellow podcaster. Maybe around just growing your show, building out your audience, whatever you can leave us with. Jordan, your. Your words of wisdom, and I definitely know we're going to end off somewhere by saying keep podcasting. But of course, let's right as part of it. But what would you kind of leave us with, Jordan, as we kind of wrap up today? I love having you here.
- [39:19]
Jordan Blair
You know, I would say that when you start a podcast, podcasting is not like an overnight success sort of thing. It takes time and it takes work and it takes effort and intentionality. And if you just keep podcasting, like for the love of it and for the enjoyment of it, if you go into it because you have something that you're really passionate about, you want to share it, that is going to keep you going. And it takes time. Even. My husband started a podcast a year ago and he's just now start. And trust me, it is professional grade. It is a great podcast. But he's just now starting to gain traction, and he has me, a professional podcaster, in his quarters. So it's not easy. It is like it's a marathon. It's something you have to do for a long time and put in your reps. And I have to say that if you are wanting to grow your podcast, word of mouth is one of the best ways to do that, whether that be, you know, guesting on other podcasts and, you know, you're talking to other people who are in your niche and they have, like, similar listenership and you're just kind of showing up and being a value to them, that is a huge win. Or you ask your listeners in the podcast that if they can just do one thing today, share it with one person that they know will enjoy your podcast. Because word of mouth works so well. Like, just personal recommend recommendations go way far.
- [40:56]
Dave
Yeah, it's beautiful. Perfect. That's. And you've done all that for us, Jordan, by being on here. So thank you. I'm like, checkboxing you as you go. All these Val, everything you just said, you do, so much so I appreciate that. Our thanks again to Podmatch and Alex and the team for making all this happen, which is. I'm thrilled. Jordan. I just, again, as a listener to both Buzzcast and Dreamfall, I just want to say thank you for all that you do. You put a lot of heart and soul and everything that you do for us as a community. I know you just mentioned you'll get a lot of emails and things that you put in your happy folder, but this, I hope, will go somewhere in your happy folder.
- [41:33]
Jordan Blair
Absolutely.
- [41:34]
Dave
On behalf of the people who listen, I get the opportunity, the privilege of saying this on behalf of all of us.
- [41:41]
Jordan Blair
Yeah.
- [41:41]
Dave
Thank you. Thank you for us and to. To Kevin and Albin as well. Just that I love that you guys bring us in. You. You include us, you make us feel welcome in all that you do. And I just. I love it. You. You have a fan for life, for both shows. And I'm just. I'm just happy. I'm so happy that I have time with you.
- [42:03]
Jordan Blair
Thank you so much, Dave. That means the world to me. It. I'm so excited to go tell Kevin and Alvin about this.
- [42:10]
Dave
All right. And we'll get. We'll get free socks or something with that or something, I don't know, Reno
- [42:15]
Jordan Blair
wool or whatever it was.
- [42:16]
Dave
Oh, yes, that's right. Very fancy. Yeah. Jordan, thank you so much. Everyone will have all information for Jordan in the show notes. I love, love, love, love. If, you know, somebody's looking for an amazing, dreamful, like, podcast that you tell them about Jordan Show. And if you're thinking about starting a podcast, go over to Buzzsprout and check out Buzzcast as well. You'll get the best people in podcasting helping you side by side in your team, and you'll get to meet Jordan. And next time you go to a conference, go look for the buzzsprout space. They're going to have a lot of great freebies. Oh, yeah, you get to go and shake hands with with Jordan. Probably give her a hug, too. So go check it out. And again, Jordan, thank you so much for being part of this.
- [42:58]
Jordan Blair
Thank you.
- [42:59]
Dave
Awesome to have Jordan on the show. What a fun conversation. I would love to have her back. So, Jordan, come back. We can talk for days about podcasting. You learn a lot from Jordan Blair. And again, reminder for you to go look at the show notes, grab links there, and go to Dreamful Podcast. And is this the podcast of your dreams? Right? Yeah, it is. And I'll go check out Buzzcast as well. If you want to learn more about podcasting, buzzsprout has great resources. As a guy who teaches podcasting here on the how to Podcast series, I fully endorse all the great tools over at buzzsprout. Go check them out. Great people, great support. Again, like the idea that they would walk around the office and show your artwork to each other and go, what do you think? And then get back to you. That is beyond. Hey, I can't find my podcast on Apple. Right? That's good. That's support. But, hey, here's the artwork that the office decided. We like this one. A or B? We all chose B. Like, come on, where do you get that? So if you want to sign up for buzzsprout, there is a link in the show notes. It's my link. And buzzsprout gives us this link for us as users to share, and we get a little bit back by you using our link. So if you're thinking about starting a show and you don't know what hosting site to use, if you want to work with somebody like Jordan and hear that kind of support for you and your show, then, yeah, definitely click the link in the show notes. Click my link, and you can help with this show by using my link. So thank you for that. Yeah. So what's the best way to end this off? Well, what if we just let Jordan end this off the way she does on Buzzcast, because it's the best way to end off. So here's Jordan ending off Buzzcast and then using it over here on the out of Podcast series. So, Jordan, can you end the show, please?
- [44:56]
Jordan Blair
So until next time, thanks for listening and keep podcasting.
- [45:05]
Dave
Hey, you're still here. Good. See, we did it. Just like I said we talked about in the show, we're doing it right now. So this is where the people who stick around to the very, very end and. Yeah. So why is it important to pick a good hosting site? You know, I'm leaning towards buzzsprout in this conversation, obviously. Why is it important to find good support for your podcast? You want to have people in your. On your side who help you when you get stuck. If you don't have a podcast guru in your pocket, your hosting site is your first point of reference. Buzzsprout has a great community on Facebook. And what I notice when people go into the Facebook group, they're like, I can't do this in buzzsprout today. What is everybody doing? What is everybody seeing this? And my comments in the group lovingly are, have you reached out to support yet? Like, coming here on Facebook and asking the group why something is not working for you is probably the last step. The first step is to reach out to the people who actually work there. So my encouragement for you, no matter what hosting site you pick, when you run into something that you feel is a wall, a barrier, you don't understand something's not working the way you think it should work, Instead of going to the Internet and asking the Internet, because let's just say, I just say Buzz Pro group is amazing, but let's just say the Internet's not always correct. I know that an AI, everyone's like, well, I just went on AI and I asked AI and it told me what to do. AI is not always correct. Everybody. You know what's correct? The people who actually work at the hosting site. So reach out to them. Have your, like, identification available so they know who you are and they can look right into your account and ask them and show them a screen share. Like, take a. An image of what you're looking at or describe it the best way you can. They're very patient, they're very smart, and they know their own tool better than anybody else. So before you go, ask the Internet why buzzsproute or whatever hosting site you're using, why it's not working. Don't ask the Internet. Don't ask AI. Go talk to a human that works at the hosting site. You'll get somebody like Jordan who is just bubbly and fun and loving and caring who really wants you to, as Jordan would say, keep podcasting so they're there for you. It is why you're paying for the hosting site. So when you're thinking about starting a podcast, pick your hosting site based on the the service level you require. Buzzsprout is awesome for that. So I would encourage you as a fellow Buzzsprout Tonian, I guess you could say to go check out not only Buzzcast, not only check out Dream Full Podcast with Jordan, but also check out a great hosting site with great people who would love to work with you. So I love it so much I use it myself. How's that Link in the show notes if you want to start a show on Buzzsprout. And yeah, thanks for being here. Thanks for sticking around. And Jordan, thank you. Take care, everybody. We'll talk soon.