← The How To Podcast Series - Podcast Co-Hosts, Practical Podcast Tips, and Podcast Community
The How To Podcast Series - Podcast Co-Hosts, Practical Podcast Tips, and Podcast Community
E629 - Tell Your Face - You Think You Are Connecting With Your Audience, But Are You - Your Face Might Be Misleading
00:34:37
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Okay, we're rolling. Hey, welcome back to the how to Podcast series. It's Dave with you. Hope you're doing well. I'm working with a podcaster and we're
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working on their new show, and they
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gave me their podcast to listen to. They said, dave, before I launch my show, I want to know that it sounds good. I want to sound natural. I want to sound engaging. I want to sound like I know what I'm talking about. I want to be the best I can be. I know it's not going to be perfect because I'm just starting, but I want it to be good. I want this to be a good first impression. I'm like, well, I love that you care about your show. That's great, because there's a. There's a few podcasters I've tried to help who don't really care about the quality of their show. They're like a one and done. I don't edit. I just. I hit record and I'm just perfect every time on the mic. And I'm like, eh, you're not. You're really not. But they. They live in an imaginary world. There's lots of unicorns and rainbows and butterflies, and everyone gets a participation award where they live because they don't like feedback and they don't want to change and they don't want to improve. And they. So much I can do to help you if you've already made up your mind that you're perfect. So we. I give them my support, my love, and send them on their way. And they'll come back. They'll come back. But when you really care about your show and you really want it to be something that stands out in the world of podcasts, then you want to put some effort into it. So I listened to their show, and when I listened to it, it sounded like more like an audiobook than. Than somebody who's doing a podcast. And we had to have a conversation about the difference between an audiobook and a podcast, because I think it's kind of. The lines are getting really blurry right now between the two. And what I'm finding is when podcasters fall in love with scripting their show, they speak to the script. They don't speak to the audience in the moment. And when I mentioned to this podcaster as they were preparing to launch that it sounded like they were reading. They were like, oh, no, no, no, no. I was hoping you wouldn't say that. And I'm like, well, you can tell. They're like, But I've tried so hard to make it sound like I'm not reading. I said, well, you are, and I can tell. So if you're trying to not sound like you're reading, then we need to look at your content and look at how you're recording, because it's quite obvious you're reading. And I'm like. But then I said to him, it's not the reading. Your podcast script is wrong. There's just ways to do it that feel a little more engaging and a little less audiobook ish and more podcast ish. There's a difference between podcasts and audiobooks, and I want to talk about that. And the other thing is, according to the podcast title here, when we get on our podcasts, whether we're going to script our podcast and read it or we're going to do what I'm doing right now, I have no script at all. I have absolutely no paper in front of me. You know, when we get on the microphone and talk that we need to tell your tell our face. How. How we're emoting ourselves right now in the moment. If you're trying to be uplifting and positive and happy, yet you look like somebody just stepped on your cat, then you need to tell your face. If. If you're passionate about something, but you look like you're almost ready to fall asleep, you need to tell your face. If you are angry, if you are thrilled, if you're scared, you need to tell your face. Because your face and your emotions, even though it's an audio podcast, come through the microphone so you're not fooling anybody. You're not. So being stoic, being aloof, being super shy and quiet, being totally emotionally dead from what we see as a person, it shows. And if you don't tell your face that you are feeling what you want to have people feel from you when they listen to you again, go back and tell your face. I'm glad you're here. Let's go. So somebody was playing for me a true crime podcast recently. Now, I'm not a true crime type of guy. I'm really not interested in all the evil things that people do to each other. I find that to be a little bit disturbing. And I really don't understand the mystique around true crime podcast. I don't understand why people are so interested on how to get away with something. But anyways, that's tangent averted. When I listened to this specific episode, it sounded like an audiobook. Again, no harm in sounding like an audiobook but in that moment, I'm like, this is just an audiobook with sound effects and a little bit of music. Bed. This is, to me, personal opinion time for Dave. A lot more like an audiobook and a lot less like a podcast. Again, we. We read and speak to the script in an audiobook because it's a word for word recount of what was written. And then a podcast is not always that it can have a script. Yes, again, no rules. It can have a script. But when I hear somebody reading to me in a very predictable, monotone way, I find I disconnect, or my mind starts to wander a little bit because I don't feel like they're talking to me. I feel like they're talking at me. The script is more important than the listener. Sometimes in some podcasts, General top, general overview, not specific to your show, but anytime that a podcaster steps out, away from the script and talks to me and goes back to the script, that's when I perk up because they're actually speaking to me. And what I find when people speak to the script and not to their audience is they lose all melody in their voice. They lose all of the things that keep people interested in what you're saying because they're so fixated on the words. The other part of all this is when you read a script, we don't speak like we write, and we don't write like we speak. So when you're reading to me out loud, something that you've written, you have punctuation, you have. There's a certain way that words in a sentence, in a paragraph are scripted. There's. There's a gallop, there's a pacing that doesn't sound the same in spoken audio that it does in written word. So a written word spoken out loud is not the same thing. My perspective, my opinion as a person talking to somebody, you wouldn't see two people having coffee reading from a script to each other about their day. There's no papers in front of them. They're not reading it. They're just talking. And they make mistakes. They flub up their words. They use ums and ahs. They're humans. We're all humans, hopefully, and that's how we talk. So the idea that a written word has been edited, scripted, crafted, there's big, fancy words that replace common words because you want to show off how. How great your research skills are and that you can. You can say big words, all of this stuff, it doesn't translate in audio. I was listening to A podcaster commenting on a podcast about podcasting, and this person was using words that I have never heard in my entire life. I'm 56. I've never heard anybody ever use these words. And it felt like they were kind of just showing off, like, hey, look at all the big words. I know. And it. The them talking was not really about what they were saying, but how they were saying it. And I was just like, it's kind of gross. This is kind of gross. I don't like that you're just here flaunting your vocabulary in this moment, and you turned me off. I actually shut him off. I shut off the podcast because of that one person who just seemed like they were trying to get every five dollar word possible into one sentence. And it seemed like the only person that mattered in the moment was them. I'm like, is that really what you're going for? So when we speak our podcast out loud, whether you script it or you are doing what I'm doing here with absolutely no script, no net, we need to make sure that when we're communicating, we're communicating to a person. We're not there in the mirror looking at how great we look. We're not there to impress ourselves. We're not there to create this world that we think that we're better than everybody else. None of that stuff. We're here to connect with people. We're here to connect with an audience. And to that end, if. No matter if you script or not, you need to tell your face, because facial expressions shape your audio podcast. Even solo podcasters recording audio only by yourself with nobody around need to smile. You need to frown. When you're. When you're angry or you're pissed off, you need to raise your eyebrows into the mic. When it's like, oh, my gosh, this thing happened. My eyebrows are up right now. You're like, oh, my gosh, you would not believe what happened. Your face isn't just for video. I'll say it again. Your face is not just for video. It fundamentally changes how your voice sounds and how you connect with your listeners. Your face is not just for video. An audio podcaster needs to tell their face how they're feeling in the moment because it's going to translate through the microphone. If you haven't heard me talk about this, and you're new here, then welcome. I'm a musician. I spent a lot of time in recording studios, recording with bands, different styles of music. Rock, blues, country, jazz. That's fun to play. And when we're in the studio with the singer. What happens normally is a singer will sing along, but they're not really recording the track. And we. We go through. We track all the instruments, bass guitar, drums, all that piano. And then the singer will go in after the fact, after everything's been edited and cleaned up, and the. The track is. Or the music track is done primarily, then the singer is going to come in into the booth by themselves and sing over what we recorded. Typically, that's how most of the recordings that I've done, that's how we do it. And when the singer gets in the booth, they're in there by themselves, headphones on, big microphone, and we're all on the other side of the glass, cheering them on and watching them do their thing. I've watched us go through, and the singer sang the same song several times. And then the producer will say, okay, that's great. One more time this time. And I want you to smile as you sing the chorus. And the singer's like, what do you mean, smile? Nobody can see me smile. I'm recording a song. Yeah, but we can hear a smile. And it's true. You can actually hear emotion through a microphone simply by you telling your face you're happy, you're sad, you're thoughtful, you're angry. It's going to come through with your voice. And what I'm finding in audiobooks, when the narrator is monotone, you get none of that payoff as a listener because the person speaking is not telling their face. This is a scary part in the story. This is a happy moment. This is a celebration. This is somber. And they don't translate the feeling through their face, through the microphone, to my ears. And whether as a podcaster, like I've mentioned, you script your show or you don't, you need to tell your face what you're trying to convey. Because simply reading to me, what you've written down is not connection. You're reading to the script. You're speaking to the script. You're not speaking to the audience. And that's the big thing that I've noticed in podcasting for the people I'm trying to help is that they. They get so tied to the script, they forget they have an audience. And that's when I'm like, hey, it sounds like you're talking from a script. It sounds like you're reading to me. If that's your intent, then that's your intent. It's an audiobook. It's more of an audiobook and less than a podcast. In that moment, because you're so focused on the audiobook that you're not thinking about who's listening. So my challenge to anybody who scripts their show is to listen to your. Listen to your face when you talk, listen to your podcast and listen to your face. Are the emotions of what you're saying and the passion of what you're saying coming through your face, or are you simply reading words to me, something to think about? Your face is your voice's engine. When you smile genuinely while you're speaking, your voice actually lifts in pitch and in warmth, adding more of an inviting energy that draws people in. Same thing happens when you're in, in a group setting in, in real life, you walk into the room and you're smiling and bubbly. Everyone's like, oh, wow, look at that person over there, right? Your voice lifts when you smile. Tense or flat expressions create monotone delivery that feels distant or boring even if your words are gold, even if you poured your heart into your content. You can be a super smart person, but completely boring and deadpan and a snooze fest. But you might be an expert. Listeners sense your emotion through tiny little vocal shifts. A furrowed brow, which I'm doing right
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now, my brow is quite furrowed.
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Adds gravity to serious topics. We want to get really serious here for a second. Lean forward here with me for a second. I really need you to listen to what I'm saying right now because this is super serious. Wide eyed, expressive surprise moments like, oh my gosh, they come through on the mic and a thoughtful squint conveys reflection like, interesting. This isn't acting. It's the way you naturally express yourself in public to your friends, your family. It's how you do life all the time. So why are you shutting that piece of you off the moment a script is put in front of you? And now I must follow the script,
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read the words and read them as
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written and sound like a book.
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And never ever add any kind of punctuation. Never let my voice go up or down. I'm going to read the words as written.
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Never.
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Next chapter, chapter three. In this chapter, we talk about A, B, C and D. This is extremely predictable, very boring. I go nowhere different with my voice and you just get the sense that Dave just is kind of going to fall asleep any second while I'm even reading my own book. This is what I call reading. Reading is when you read and you do not do anything different with your voice except do the thing that you're doing and you never acknowledge the audience there's no excitement, there's no passion. It's just, I am reading this word
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exactly as I wrote it, with all
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the right punctuation, grammatical structure, and this is how I do my podcast. Thank you for listening. Next time, we will get together and do this again. If you ever come back. Goodbye.
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No, no, no. We need to use all of us, not just our reading ability. And again, if you're a scripted podcast, you will improve as you read your script. But it's your voice acting. You are adding flavor and some spice to what you're doing. You are. You are acting in a way. But it's natural, though, right? It's not a different version of you. It's more of you. Solo creators often overlook this because no one's watching us when we're recording our podcast. There's nobody here. There's no one here. Just me. I have nobody to entertain. I have nobody to feed off of. I have nobody to capture their energy and use it for myself. 80% of our audio, though, is emotion. Tight jaws or neutral faces, they just choke your energy making episodes. They feel really, really flat, boring and stale. When you watch a great speaker, their faces move and their. Their message, it just brings you in and you feel it. You don't just hear it, you feel it. They. They just command the stage. Up on the stage when they do their TED talks or they're speaking to a group of people. Even in a small little group of people, they move around, they interact, they look you in the eye, they smile, they frown, they use their emotions. It's a tool. And what I think that once we see ourselves as a audio podcaster, no microphone, no camera, no audience, we're recording by ourselves. We feel like we don't need to leverage that part of us. And that's what comes through the mic. And that's why you sound boring, that's why you sound predictable, and that's why you sound like you're reading. So how does this all translate through the mic? Facial muscle muscles are actually subtly. They alter your vocal tract. A smile raises your soft palate, brightening your tone and your resonance. Anger or concentration tightens your jaw and your throat, darkening and compressing your sound. Listeners pick up on these cues subconsciously and feeling your enthusiasm or concern without seeing you. So here's a little test. Record the same script. Pick a. Like a quote from a movie, for example. Record it. Stone faced, no emotion, just dead, nothing showing, no. No sign of life. Just record the script without showing anything in your face. And then record it Smiling broadly, like a huge, big goofy smile on your face. Make people go, what are you up to? That face, okay, same script, play it back and listen to you with no emotion, stone faced, just nothing, no sign of life. And the broadly smiling one, the smiling take is going to sound alive and engaging. The neutral one, it's going to drag. It's going to be boring. It's going to be like you've checked out. You're like, what is going on here? Your brain links emotion to voice and so do your ears. So some practical ways that we can use this as podcasters, I want you to start your next recording by picturing one listener, okay? A friend who needs this episode. Speak as if you're sitting across from them at the coffee shop, letting your face react naturally to your words and exaggerate slightly at first. Grin at good news, nod empathetically while we're talking, even though there's nobody here, and just show your agreement by your body actions and how you move. Use your hands, grimace when you mention something that's painful or disturbing or uncomfortable. Make that face like, what's that smell like? Is that like dirty diapers and rotten eggs that have been sitting outside in the August heat for three weeks? But that, that face. Make that face. Yeah, that's emotion. And I don't hear that in your audiobook slash podcast. I hear a bunch of words that you're reading. I don't get any of this smile and emotions and pain. I get zero of that from you. And I want you to anchor some key moments here as well. Smile through introductions and uplifting stories. Soften your gaze for vulnerability or empathy. Lean forward with your eyebrows raised for a question or a surprise, like, actually move your. You're sitting, move forward. If you're standing, lean in and relax your face. During more reflective posits, lean back a little bit and, you know, fingers on your chin, going, how would I deal with that? Practice this in short, Burst a mirror works really well for this. And watch your expressions while you're reading your script out loud. Over time, it becomes instinctive, turning solo sessions into dynamic conversations. I talk a lot about. Podcasters should never podcast alone. And if you're by yourself recording right now, this week, and you're in your studio in your space, get a little like makeup mirror and put it near your monitor. Put it somewhere where you can see yourself on the mic. What's your face doing? And if you're feeling an emotion, you're trying to emote something during your podcast and your face is Just stone cold nothing. Then tell your face what you're trying to say is in your podcast. Here's a few common traps and some fixes for you as a podcaster around telling your face how you really feel. Many podcasters I find who like to read from a script. They're really rigid and their faces are frozen in time. The solution? I want you to pause every few sentences and react silently. Then continue. Avoid overthinking. Stop chasing perfect faces. That's really gonna stifle your natural flow. Just be you. Be the same you that you're not on the mic. When you are on the mic, that's who you need to be. And if you're prone to neutral expressions, I'm a very neutral, expressive face. You see me at an event, you're like, what's wrong with that guy? I just. I don't. I don't emote a lot of emotion through my face. If that's you like me, then set some visual cues. A photo of your ideal listener, a funny meme, a little smile. Now sticky note that sits there somewhere where you look. Fatigue flattens your face, too. So record in natural light and take expression breaks. Like, take a walk away from the mic and come back. The big takeaway here is to tell your face to show up. Even if you're audio only. Your expressions breathe life into your voice, making listeners feel seen, understood, and eager for more. The beautiful thing about a podcast, if this is your intent, is it opens the door for you to get in front of people. Whether it's to speak to a small group about podcasting or to talk to your community around what you talk about. You become somebody that people want to have at their event. And you might get invited up onto a stage or a panel or onto a podcast as a guest. And if you're flat and dead and there's nothing to you, somebody needs to poke you with a stick to make sure you're still awake and alive during an interview. Then it's not going to translate in a public setting. So this is where you get to practice and play. This is where you get to test your limits. So go ahead, tell your face when you're feeling happy, tell your face when you're feeling overwhelmed or when you're scared. Tell your face when you're angry and pissed off, Tell your face because it's going to come through the mic. Don't just read to your audience. Don't just speak to your script. Speak to your listeners and make sure that they are your priority. Reading a script is Great for an audiobook. Reading a script and not doing it well, it's not always a great experience for your listeners. So if you've got feedback, somebody said you sound like you're reading, you can either say, perfect, that's what I'm trying to do, or, oh, man, I didn't want that. Then there's some work to do, and I'd love to help you with this. I have some practical things that you and I can do together. In a coaching call, you can reach out to me at howtopodcast ca. I have helped podcasters with this so many times. So if you're looking for a little more emotion, a little less deadpan, I can help you@howtopodcast ca. I do that. I coach podcasters doing it for a long time. I'd love to help you as well. So tell your face you think you're connecting with your audience, but are you really? Your face is going to help decide if that's actually happening. So tell your face. Thanks for being here and tell your friends about the show, too. So here at the how to Podcast series, we love to hear from you. You might think that we get a lot of feedback, man. We don't. We don't get a lot because people just feel like, why bother? Like, why does Dave really care what I have to say? And I do. I actually do really care what you have to say. I love your input. I love hearing from you. And we've started a survey for our listening audience, which includes you right here, right now. And I'd love, love, love for you to head over to HowToPodcast Cat, and you'll see our survey right there on our website and take a few minutes. Come through, answer the thoughtful questions we're asking of you to make the show better. Not just for you, but for everyone. Your feedback is really going to help shape the show. And I selfishly just want to hear from you. So if you're thinking Dave probably already knows what I think. I don't. I really don't. I'm not good at reading minds. My wife will confirm that completely. So I. I don't really know what you think of the show. I don't know if you like it, if you like how long the show is, how long the episodes are that Dave's doing 365 episodes in a year. Oh, my gosh. Like, I would love to hear from you and get your thoughts on this very show right here. So head over to HowToPodcast CA, click on our survey link. It's also in the show notes for every episode in their most recent episodes and I'd love to hear from you. So as a listener of this hear very show, your feedback can make this show so much better. So much better. And I'm not drowning in emails and voice messages and speak pipes and buy me a coffees right now. So I'm putting the ask out to you right now as a listener of the show and you're still here that you take a moment, head over to our website, click the link in the show notes for any episode and go to our survey and let us know your thoughts about this show, how it could be better and what you love and what you're like. Dave, can you stop doing this? That would be really helpful. Thanks for being here and being part of the how to podcast family. See you over at howtopodcast. Ca talk soon. Thanks for being here. Bye. Foreign. You're still here. Awesome. Okay, so I have to admit something to you right now. I have never admitted this to anybody before, so you're the only one that's going to hear this because you're here, right? This is bonus extra stuff. Everyone else doesn't. Doesn't even know we're talking about this. So I'm going to admit something to you. Okay? Please don't share this with anyone. It's just between you and I, I have no fear of sharks. Not any fear at all of sharks. You're like, oh, really? That's weird. It's a weird thing to talk about on a podcast about podcasting. Yeah, I have no fear of sharks.
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Why?
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Because I have no interest in sharks. I live in Ontario, Canada. I live near lakes. I live near Niagara Falls, Big hill, lots of water, very little sharks, very little opportunity to interact with a shark. Unless I go to an aquarium somewhere, I will probably never have an encounter with a shark. I don't swim, so I don't go in the ocean. And I don't watch Jaws and shark movies because I have no interest in sharks. So I don't fear sharks. The things that I'm interested in, that's when fear can creep in. So when I met my wife for the first time, I'm like, oh, my gosh, she's amazing. She's hot.
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Like, wow.
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Hello. I was freaking out, scared because I was interested in her. I was super interested in her. Like, oh, my gosh.
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Yeah, I like you.
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So that made me super nervous. And then I was super scared. Scared to say the wrong thing, scared to do the wrong thing, scared that I would Screw this up somehow, and she'd be like, you're weird. She still thinks I'm weird, but I did convince her to marry me 30 plus years ago. So it worked, and it still works. But I am only afraid of the things I'm interested in. I'm never afraid of the things I'm not. So if you. If you're, like, afraid of podcasting, you're afraid of getting on the mic, it's because you're interested in it, it's because you're curious. If you weren't interested in it, you wouldn't be afraid of it. I go talk to people who have no idea what a podcast is, and I'm like, hey, have you ever heard of podcasting? They're like, what's that? I'm like, well, would you ever be a podcaster? They're like, I don't even know what a podcast is. They have zero fear of podcasting because they're not interested in it. So when you tell me that you're nervous, you're scared of creating a show, you're scared of building this podcast, that's a good sign. That's a sign that you care. That's a sign that you're interested, you're curious about podcasting, that's something to lean into, not run away from. So when you tell me you're afraid of podcasting, I'm like, sweet. Like my fear of my future wife Jen, when I first met her, that's a good sign. I really like this person. I want to know more about her. Oh, my gosh, if she was in my life, it'd be the best thing ever. And it is. So when you're interested in something, that's where fear comes from. And then the beautiful thing is our body doesn't know what to do with fear. Fear is the same reaction as excitement. So when you are afraid of something like starting a podcast, you can just click that button and go, well, it's actually. It's not fear, body, mind. It's actually excitement. So I'm excited now. I'm not afraid. I'm excited. And we're gonna go down this path instead. So whatever you think, Spotty, about being afraid of starting a podcast, I'm just gonna tell you, replace that word fear with excitement. I'm excited to start a podcast. I'm excited to meet my future wife, Jen, 30 plus years ago. Yeah, I'm still nervous, I'm still fearful, but the excitement overrides the fear. So if you are excited about starting a podcast or you're fearful about starting a podcast, then you and I need to talk. HowtoPodcast CA you only fear what you are interested in. You'd never fear what you have 0 interested in. Like sharks.
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I'm not afraid of sharks. Ever.
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I'll never interact with them. Move on. Thanks for listening. Take care.