← The How To Podcast Series - Podcast Co-Hosts, Practical Podcast Tips, and Podcast Community
The How To Podcast Series - Podcast Co-Hosts, Practical Podcast Tips, and Podcast Community
E637 - How to Grow Your Podcast Faster by Lifting Other Podcasters and Shows
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Okay, we're rolling. Hey, welcome back to the how to podcast series. It's Dave with you. Hope you're doing well. We're gonna take a little ride in a boat today. Yep, we're all gonna go in a boat. I gotta tell you, I don't know how to swim at all. So I'll be the one clutching to the side of the boat with a four life preservers on. I'll be the guy who's like, are we. Can we go back now? That's me. Because I like fishing, but I like fishing from a dock where I can walk off the dock. But yeah, I'm not a. I'm not a swimmer. There you go. Dave's admitting it on a podcast. So if you love swimming, then what's wrong with you? Yeah, no. Anyways, I just can't do it. So let's go for a ride in a boat today. We're gonna go and we're gonna realize something, that rising tide lifts all boats. So it's going to get deep around here. And yeah, grab your life preserver. Time to jump in the boat. Thanks for being here. Let's go. I do believe that that, that saying is true definitely in podcasting that a rising tide lifts all boats. It's true and it's amazing and it's great about podcasting. It's a great community. The podcasting community community is awesome. There's a few people that are like, eh, take it or leave it. But for the most part, I would say 99 of the podcasting community, awesome people, like the best people you'll ever meet. And when other podcasters recommend your show, it can dramatically accelerate your listener and subscriber growth. It's a great way to grow your podcast when other people are talking about your show. And the beauty of cross promotion is that it's mutually beneficial to the person promoting you and the person being promoted. Right. It's just, it's amazing. When you lift others, you rise together. And it's the beautiful thing about podcasting. In podcasting, community often outperforms competition. There is competition. There are other shows like your show, that talk about your topic, but they can't do your show. They can do their show, but they can't do your show. So there is competition, but there's also a lot of collaboration in podcasting, which I love. And it's easy to view similar shows as your rival. Like they're out to get your audience and take them away from your show. But the reality is that most listeners enjoy multiple podcasts. Even multiple podcasts with the same topic, the same subject matter. So one of my questions in my survey, which is available at howtopodcast CA and also in the show notes, is what other podcasts about podcasting do you listen to? And I'm seeing a pretty robust list of some of the other podcasts about podcasting, which I'm well aware of. And it's very interesting to see people's tastes and where they're gravitating to in addition to this show. So I want to know where my listeners are listening to and if they're listening to other shows like mine, what are they? It helps me to know where I sit in this world of podcasting and content creation around podcasting. Right. So many podcasts about podcasting. Why this show? Why are you here? What are you getting from the show you're not getting somewhere else? And what other shows are you listening to? Who else are you seeing besides this show? I need to know. So that's part of the survey. Love to get your thoughts. Go over and click on the survey link on howtopodcast ca. Love to hear from you. We share audiences with other shows. It happens. We. But we can share audiences through other shows, also through collaboration. That's why I bring on other podcasts, podcasters who talk about podcasting. I'm not threatened by that because if you resonate with them, then that's a bonus to them. It's a bonus to the listener. It's. It's how we do things. Even if you leave this show to go to their show, great. Find the voice that you resonate with and stick with them. One of the things I caution new podcasters is to not have like 35 gurus who talk about podcasting, because you're going to get 35 different points of view. You're going to get lost in the information. There's going to be contradictions. This person said this. This person said the opposite. This person said, do it this way, this person said, do it that way. And in that you get confused, you get confused. When you confused, you stop. When you get confused, you lose. Right? So pick. I would say pick one. Just pick one guru. Maybe some other ones you listen to for entertainment or extra, but pick one voice. Learn everything you can from that person to the extent of their knowledge. And then when you get to the end of their knowledge, then you can graduate to the next person. But when you have multiple voices sending you in different directions, you get confused and you might give up. So pick one. It could be this show. And I'd be thrilled. Could be someone else's show. I awesome. Pick a single voice, learn what you can. Learn everything you can from that person. And when you've got to the end of their list of what they know, because we only know what we know. Even if you've been doing this for 20 years, you only know what you know. And sometimes the people that have been in podcasting the longest haven't educated themselves on the newer things happening in podcasting, and they're stuck in their ways. So it might be good for a fresh, new approach and a new point of view in podcasting. Even if that person that's giving you information and coaching you is relatively new to podcasting, don't let the length of time that they've been podcasting to be the only reason you work with them. Whether they've been in forever or they've been in it for a few weeks, everybody's got a different approach. You need to pick the single voice that works for you. I think that's super important. As podcasters, we share audiences with other shows. I share audience members for this show with other podcasts. About podcasting, I know that I see it in the survey results. Instead of focusing on who's getting the biggest slice of the pie, we as podcasters can work together to make the pie larger. Stop fighting over the size of the slices that are there, but make the pie bigger. I like the idea of when success comes to you in podcasting or in life, instead of putting a fence around what you have, make a bigger table, a longer table. Invite more people to it, to what you have in your success. Instead of putting up a fence to protect people from taking it from you, stealing your ideas and stealing your audience, just make a bigger table. It's a great approach. Here's how we can apply this approach. I think as podcasters, and there's a few things for us to think about, some practical things that we can do right now to raise all boats and raise the tide. Here we go. First, we need to cross promote with related podcasts. Hard to do if somebody else is insecure as a podcaster and they feel threatened by you. Your show might be bigger, your show might be more entertaining, they might be intimidated by your podcast, they might be arrogant, they might be like, I don't work with people like you. I'm afraid of losing my audience. There's multiple reasons why people might not want to work with you, but there are other people who would love to work with you. So cross promote with related podcasts. With podcasts that talk about your topic or adjacent to your topic and exchange mentions in your episodes. Share each other's trailers or talk about the other podcaster and what they talked about on their show. Create co branded social posts as well. When, when people see podcasters working together, what a healthy indicator of a great atmosphere and a great collaborative approach. I think people lean into that because they see a. And they, they feel that collaboration. They see it happening in real time and it stands out as unique and different in a competitive world of social media. YouTube, you don't see that there. And I think that's what make podcasting better. We're not like radio. Radio was so cutthroat they wanted to tear down other stations just to build their own station up. Podcasters were different breed. We're not radio, thank goodness. So we can do things differently, we can do things better. So the second one is we need to collaborate creatively as well. Gotta be more creative in how we work together with other people. Consider guest hosting or co hosting episodes together. I do that here on this show. Recording interviews together or creating a miniseries that spans both shows. Or maybe a, a panel discussion where we have, we both had the same guest on and we can get together and interview that guest a second time together. Two shows combined into one and then let them have the content for their show as well. Don't just have it on your show. Right? That's being creative. As we collaborate. Don't, don't just do the easy thing. Don't just do what everybody else is doing, but be creative and collaborate in a creative way. We also, we can also use social media to leverage our social media impact. When we work together with other podcasters, like what we talk about. Tag your fellow podcasters and when you make a post and share clips or quotes from their podcast episodes, amplify their work while you're subtly introducing your audience to theirs. Do a shout out, jump on stories. Talk about a podcast episode from somebody else. Even if they talk about your topic and shout them out. I was listening to so and so on episode this number and they were talking about these things. It really got me thinking and I just wanted to say thanks to them publicly for that episode. That was really great. And everyone, you should go listen to this episode. And you're like, dave, if I do that, my audience might leave me. Yeah, they might. And why are they leaving you? Well, they might like the other person better. Yeah, they might. It's true. Build a bigger table. I think if we can be the type of people who promote others not at the expense of our audience. We're not trying to get rid of our audience. We want our audience to grow. But. But our audience can see and sense that we're not holding onto our audience with both hands, white knuckling it, hoping and praying that nobody leaves our show when they see a healthy respect for other podcasters. And we model that. I think people pick up on that and they trust us even a little bit more than they wouldn't have if they. If we didn't demonstrate that. So I know it seems weird to promote somebody else who talks about what you talk about, but I think the results show for themselves. So consider it, think about it, put it into practice. But definitely leverage social media and tag those other shows and they'll do it for you too. Try it. We can also offer those genuine shout outs in our podcast. I don't know about you. When I was a kid, if I could hear my voice on a radio show, I was like the king of the world, right? Call in, request a song or call in, you know, fifth caller in, you win tickets to the whatever. I was the one trying to call in. And I remember there was a call in thing and it was for something and I would. If you were calling, we're asking for number, call it caller number 10 or something, whatever. I was caller number one. And they're like, oh, sorry, you're number one. I'm like, come on, Really? I got through. I'm number one. There's nothing for me. They're like, nope, call the 10 by hang up. Like, dang it. So, yeah, but offer genuine shout outs on your show. I think people love to hear their name. It's like this cool bonus. Especially if they're listening to your show, it's like, come on, those shout outs are really, really important. Authentic recommendations go further than any kind of paid promotion. And it's. It's organic, it's natural, it's in the moment. It's real, it's not forced, it's not an ad. It's just genuine appreciation for others. In podcasting. Let your audience know what other shows that you listen to and why. And the other part, too, in this, I think we could share our resources. There's no reason why we have to create in a bubble by ourselves. We can share resources, we can share ideas, we can. We can help each other as podcasters. We can swap with our. Even with our competition, even with people who were in our space, we can swap production tips and guest contacts. And if I have a guest on my show, I'm thinking about all the other podcasters I know that this guest would be a great guest for, and I'm sending them and making up like email introductions between my guest and a fellow podcaster. And just to know that somebody's thinking of you as a podcaster and sending great guests to you instead of relying on a PR agency or, you know, hope and trust and luck that a good podcast guest shows up at your door when somebody's thinking about you. Somebody knows you as a fellow podcaster. The I just the idea that they're thinking of you in that moment, gee, what a great feeling. And even if you're, you're the one who initiates it and no one does it for you, just keep doing it. Eventually people will catch on, be a leader without measuring the results. Just be a leader and create that opportunity. Because everybody wins when we all work together. So share resources. Collaboration, I really think really builds trust between you and another podcaster, but also you and your audience. And it often leads to really great long term partnerships. You're gonna find in podcasting, there are people that you are drawn to and then there are people that repel you. You're just like, I can't even be in the room with that person. It's obvious. It could be their style, it could be their sense of humor, it could be the, how they, the language they use, how they talk about people behind their back. There's a lot of people in podcasting that I would not be seeking out at a podcast conference for dinner, just no way. But there's a way more people that I would, that I'd be seeking out in the hallways looking for you because of who you are and because of the great content you put out there. So when you shift your mindset from it being completely competitive to more collaborative, I think you unlock a network of creative possibilities as a podcaster and you attract not only listeners but also allies who can help you expand your reach in this podcasting world. And success, I think, compounds upon success when voices connect. I think it's just this beautiful thing about podcasting. Again, it's not radio. Nobody grows alone in podcasting. Sure, you can build an audience, sure, you can build a community. Yes, you can get more listens. But to really build something of value doesn't happen in a vacuum. Treat podcasting and the podcasting community like a creative collective of like minded people, not a crowded marketplace where you're trying to be heard over the noise. Lift others up first and you'll lift your show. Right along them. Instead of thinking about, how can I grow my show? Start saying, how can I grow your show? And I think when you do that, changing that mine to your, that's when you unlock an amazing opportunity to see what podcasting can do, not only for you, for your audience, but for the community itself. It's time to get in the ship. The tide is rising and you want to be there when it happens instead of growing your own. Joe, what can I do to help you grow yours? It's time to get in the ship, get that life preserver on. Because if we go over, come and help me because I can't swim. Thanks for being here. Take care. So I get asked quite often, usually at the end of a podcast, like right now, dave, how can we help you? Like, how can we, as a listener, like, support the show? Can we come rake your leaves? Can we cut the grass? Shovel the snow? Watch your dog help you move? What can we do? Clean your dishes? Oh, that'd be interesting. Well, if you don't, if you can't do that because, you know, you're in Poland, maybe you can help us by supporting us with our Buy Me a Coffee. It's right there on our website. And you know, it just will help us to a stay fueled because, you know, we drink a lot of coffee around here and it helps the show. So if you want to help us, it's out of the goodness of your heart. I can tell you that listening to the podcast to this point, you've already helped us so much. But I do have people saying, dave, I'd love to give back something small, even just to the show. Buy Me a Coffee link is on our website howtapodcast ca and you can support the show that way. It would mean a lot to have you on our team supporting what we do here. If you find value in the show, then that's great. Share the show, tell somebody about it. And when somebody says, dave, I want to start a podcast, who should I check out? Oh, you should go check out the how to podcast series because of all the great co hosts and all the things that happen here, the meetups, everything. And I would appreciate that. And then fill her a cup once in a while if you can. But again, thank you so much for being here and supporting the how to podcast series. Take care. Talk soon. So you're still here. Well, that's great because I'm still here and I'm still cleaning up, just getting ready for the next episode. But hey, let's, let's chat for A second before we close off. I do this at the end of the show because I want to connect with you and give you as much value as possible. We just had the episode. People have come, they've listened, most people are gone, you're still here. So I'm putting a bonus thing at the end. One question that bothered me recently was somebody reached out and said, dave, I'm just not having fun with my podcast anymore. It's not fun. I'm just, I'm not enjoying it the way I did when I first started. So we, we chatted about it, we talked through it a little bit, and some of it came down to content, some of it came down to overwhelm, busyness, just doing too much, not balancing out life and podcasting, not balancing of family and podcasting, and just a general sense of dread and overwhelm, I guess, from this specific podcaster. And if you're listening, thank you for reaching out. When, when I meet people like this, what I like to do with them is kind of go through their week, go through their month, and have them kind of brain dump what they're doing. There's the mechanics of creating a podcast, there's the mechanics of creating a video podcast, there's the promotion side of it, there's the guesting side of it, there's the maintenance. It's like a small business, it's like a small town you're running. You have to get your guests aligned, you have to get your assets created, you got to work on the website, you got to do a blog, you got to create your. All your information, you got to post the podcast, you got to promote the podcast, you get. The next episode is coming right next. Your kids are looking at you like, why are you never around? And they're just trying to balance. Your wife, your partner looks at you like, do you ever come up for air? Like, I haven't seen you in weeks. And you just get to the point where you're like, why am I doing this? I've lost the fun in my podcast journey. So once we get like a dump out of all of the things they're doing, we put times to them to see how much time they're spending. And they're spending a lot of time on their podcast. So part of it is they're not seeing a return on their investment of time. There's not. The audience isn't growing to the where they want it to be. They're not making a substantial amount of money, life changing money from their show, and they just feel like they're on a treadmill, they're on that hamster wheel. Just keeps going around and around and around, and they almost feel like giving up, almost feel like just walking away from this podcast thing. So once we've gone through, we've mapped out the time, we've mapped up kind of this, the flow of their show, then we start going, okay, so what can we either eliminate or reduce? How can we simplify this to the point where you have time to reinvest in yourself, reinvest in your family, reinvest in your podcast, whatever that is. But how can we go from this many hours per week, per day and reduce it and simplify it? And by doing that, we. We end up start tossing things out. Like, do you need to post on 10 different social platforms for every episode? No. We start pinpointing what are our best options. Where does. Does my audience show up? For me, Instagram is not the place for the show. Best. I'm trying just not a post to Instagram stories gets less than 10 people, sometimes two people looking at that post. So Instagram and I, we're not getting along for this show. Other podcasts that I do, it's doing great. So it's not. It's not the platform because the other shows are doing awesome. With Instagram, it's interesting. Our audiences are different, so you have to find them. And if you're spending 10 hours a week on Facebook and it's bringing you zero results, it's time to either reduce or cancel posting to Facebook. I. I know you might love Facebook, but your audience doesn't. So don't waste your time talking to the wall. Spend and invest your time to where your people really are. So as we kind of work through this, we scale down the amount of work they're doing, we give them back their time, and maybe we even just take a break from our show. Just take a rest. Your audience will be fine. They'll be fine. They care about you. We reduce the amount of time, we focus on what really matters, and we rebuild the show together. There's been times where we've come to an agreement between Ralph and the podcaster that it's time to let the show stop. And it might feel weird to do that, but it might be that this season of their life is over and it's time to move on to something different. They were an author. They had an author podcast, but they really want to be a speaker. They're not going to forget about their author journey, but they really want to focus on speaking so maybe it's time to drop the author podcast and focus on a speaking podcast that highlights their speaking skills. Maybe that's it. Maybe they were a podcaster and now they want to be a voiceover actor. So instead of focusing on podcasts about podcasting, they want to focus on how to use your voice. It's still a podcast but the audience is different, the focus is different and it's more and it brings them more joy. So if that's the kind of conversations you want to have and you want to walk through this together, just want to like dump mental dump of your podcast, I'd love to help you. Calendar's always on my website. Reach out anytime. Happy to talk. If I can help you find the joy in podcasting again and not lose you as a podcaster for the sake of your audience, I'd love to help you with that. So let me know. Thanks for being here. Take care.