← The How To Podcast Series - Podcast Co-Hosts, Practical Podcast Tips, and Podcast Community
The How To Podcast Series - Podcast Co-Hosts, Practical Podcast Tips, and Podcast Community
E638 - How To Keep From Talking Over Others on Your Podcast - Behind The Mic Series
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Okay, we're rolling. Hey, it's Dave. Welcome to the how to Podcast series. I'm glad to have you here. Episode 573. We're just plugging along here, right? 365 Days of Content on the how to Podcast series. I know, I know. It's a lot of content. Just go through the titles, pick the things that stand out for you, and when you have time come back. It'll just be here. It's like a library. Have you read every book in the library? No, but you know they're there, and anytime you want a book, you can go there and check them out. So think of this as a. As a boost to our library of content here on the how to Podcast series. Come when you want, come as often as you want, and there's no late charges. So there you go. That's a win, right? Yeah. So there you go. So this. That's what we're doing. We're doing this content blitz in 2026. And it's a lot. I know. And what I want to talk about today is. Is talking over your guests, talking over each other, and just stepping on each other. Like, it's so awkward as a listener. And when you don't edit it out, it's blatant that you have a communication problem when you're recording your episodes. And it's quite frustrating as a listener. So I listened to a show last night at work, and these are supposedly experts in podcasting who edit for people and do all this great work, but oh, my gosh, they cannot keep themselves from stepping on each other. What a train wreck. Anyways, that's what sparked it. So here we are. How to not talk over your guests and not how to step on their toes as a co host here on the how to Podcast series. It's the behind the Mic series. Another episode for you. Here we go. So, yeah, so I'm listening to a bunch of air quotes here. Experts in podcasting. And you would think, being experts and being editors and being coaches and being leaders in podcasting, that they would have a little bit better mic technique in that not how they use their microphone, but how they speak on the mic, because they talked over each other almost the entire episode, to the point where I was getting frustrated listening to this, because if anybody should know how to do this properly, it's the people who edit and help other podcasters. Which, to me personally, made me wonder, what are they teaching other podcasters if they're not executing it themselves? When I hear a podcast guru who Says things like, oh, I normally I would take this out, but I'm just gonna leave that in there because I'm being real. You're being real lazy is what you're being in the moment. And if it's not good enough advice for themselves to follow yet they're telling you to do it. Does that make sense? No, not really. So when it's not demonstrated to me as a listener that you know what you're doing, I start to question your. The validity of what you're teaching and if you even believe your own words as a guru in podcasting. So anyway, very frustrating. I won't out the podcast because they do have good episodes and I do enjoy listening. But oh my gosh, this last episode was just a lot of. You go, no, you go, no. Sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah, one more thought before I pass it over to you. Oh, just wait, one more. Excuse me. What? Hey, What? There. Yeah, me. Oh, okay. What? Please. We're going to go through today. It's not going to answer every situation. It's not going to apply in every, every case for you as a podcaster, but at least you're thinking about it. And when you think about it, maybe you'll do it less. Because as an editor that helps podcasters and edits your shows, your talkovers and your stumbles and your. And you cutting off your guests and your co hosts is very frustrating, hard to edit, and as a listener, it doesn't make us want to stick around. So here we go. So talking over guests and co hosts on your podcast really kills the flow of your show. Listeners tune out if they don't actually leave the podcast. They really stop listening and they mentally check out of the conversation because you're all over the place and you're, you're just. It's so distracting. Guests will shut up on your show. You'll see them clam right up and those awkward. You go, no, no, you go, oh, I'm sorry, no, you go, no, finish your thought. All this loop wastes so much time. I want to help with some practical fixes to stay disciplined as a podcast host, to help your expert shine, and to create a smooth, pro level conversation that will keep your audience hooked throughout your podcast. So first thing is we as podcasters, as with our co host or with a guest, we need to set some pre recording ground rules. Like before we even get into the conversation, we gotta set a foundation. We gotta set our expectations right, right from the beginning. This is going to help prevent so much chaos in the conversation. Spend a couple minutes with a pre interview brief like we'll pause at natural breaks. Finish your thought fully. I'll jump in after you're done. Discuss your styles up front. I listen first, chime in second. Does that sound good to you? For remote calls, agree on maybe a hand raise or I'm going to lean up to the mic when it's, when I'm ready to talk, I'm going to lean back when I. When I'm giving you the space. Little things like that don't have to be so obvious, but set out your objectives and how you're going to run the show right from the beginning and talk about this. Maybe there's a raise, hand emoji in zoom or whatever you're recording on that identifies that you're ready to talk next. All of this pre planning will help with all the overlaps that tend to happen in a podcast that's just thrown together with no planning, no communication. Let's hope for the best. And it very rarely turns out well. So do some pre recording ground rules with your co host, with your guest, how are you going to navigate the conversation? Have that conversation up front and do it often. Don't just have it once and never return to that conversation. Keep refreshing it, keep it front of mind. Pre record ground rules, super important. And then master the power of the pause. When I listened to that episode with all these gurus, everybody was so excited to get their point in that they weren't listening anymore. They were just in reaction mode and they just couldn't wait to speak up and share their next thing. They like jokes were falling through the cracks. The guests seemed confused because there was multiple hosts throwing question at the guests and the guests seemed to be like trying to figure things out. Another thing, as a bonus, one of the hosts asked the guests like seven questions in one. So if you did this, how about that? When did you did this? When you thought about that, how would you do that? And when you learned that, how did you do this? And overall, what was your thought about the process? And the guest was like, which one do you want me to answer? Like, it was just, what is going on here? Again, these are experts in podcasting who teach podcasting and they can't even do it properly themselves. I'm just like, oh, please listen to your own words, people. Come on. I'm yelling into my earpods. So we need to master the power of the pause. And I think that's where this really would have helped. This podcast in particular that I was listening to to Train yourself to wait a couple seconds after people stop talking. Most finished thoughts need a breath like. And the listeners need to catch up. So count silently. One Mississippi. Two Mississippi to break the interrupter impulse. Your desire to jump in with the next question. Jump in with your thoughts, and your guest is still finishing a word and you're cutting them off. Breathe deep. Your brain fills silence with gems. Don't jump in and steal the spotlight from your guest, from your co host. Practice solo. Record mock interviews. Edit your overlaps to hear how jarring they sound. It's interesting when you hear yourself back. So again, be careful and don't be afraid of the power of the pause. It is super powerful for you, for your guest, your co host and the listener. If you can, during recording, use nonverbal cues to help control the conversation. So this is going to be easier to do in an audio formatted podcast over a video formatted podcast because nobody's seeing you wave your hands above your head. We're not talking about helping a plane land and go to the right terminal, you know, with those big orange cones and stuff. That's not what we're trying to do here in the conversation. But there's got to be some way to identify who's next, who's speaking. We're after this person, we're going to that person. And in the moment in the recording, it's hard to communicate that. So come up with your own hand signals, your own way of nodding to each other, something that makes people go, okay, we're going to Dave next. As soon as Robin is finished with her thought on that topic, we're going next to Dave, right? Somebody has to be in charge of the conversation. Conversations just don't happen by themselves. So if you're in person or in video, use something a little more subtle with your signals. No words need to be needed. Raise, palm, hold. That thought would be a good word thing to say. Nod slowly, like, keep going, like you're doing good. Just keep nodding with them. Keep encouraging them by your body language. Point to the guest. Your turn. I like in Zoom, you have the chat feature, for example, you can say in the chat, bob, we're coming to you next. So Bob's not caught off guard by we. Oh, Bob, what do you think about that? Bob's listening now because he knows he's next, so he's going to catch the end of what we're talking about and be ready to go to him. Like, these little things could happen. It takes somebody being organized. And when I'm a guest on podcasts, I don't see people organized to this degree, especially when there's multiple voices. And it would have really helped this interview that I was explaining at the beginning of this episode. Again with experts who should know better, who didn't do any of these things. And it really showed. So please use some kind of prompts, a chat feature in Google. You can comment in the document you're looking at. People can follow along. There's a ton of different ways that will work. You need to find the best one that works for your show, but have some way to communicate while you're recording in the moment so people know where we're going next. Use nonverbal cues, chat comments, whatever you got. But some way to signal each other. Super important. And then kill this whole you go. No, you go dance. When you spot the loop, take charge gently. Great point. Let me build on that. Is a great way to kill that whole you go, no, you go thing or redirect. Finish your thought, then I'm going to share mine. That's another great way to kill that whole no, I'm sorry, no, you go, no, you finish your thought. No, just do that. Never mere awkwardness. Lead like a host. You're not leading like a host. When you go back and forth and back and forth and back and forth, it just looks and sounds horrible. If a co host is the co host is an issue. Then debrief after the episode. Love the energy. Next time, one breath, please. Before we go into the next thing, edit ruthlessly. Cut out the stumbles. Stitch them together seamlessly. That's what it takes when you work with a good podcast editor. Kill the whole you go. No, you go, cut it out of your podcast in the edit. Nobody needs to hear that. Nobody needs to hear how unprepared you are. And then next, use tech and edit safety nets. Be sure to use your technology when you're recording with a guest or with a co host. The tools that you're using, even Zoom or Riverside or whatever you're using, they'll give you separate tracks, which is great. If you are not in the habit of recording with separate tracks. Your podcast editor is probably yelling at you for not doing this. Set up your set up every time you record. So there's a track for you, a track for your co host, and if you have a guest, a track for your guest. So you have multiple separate tracks. Otherwise all of the voices are on one track. And if somebody sneezes, somebody coughs, somebody's dog barks at the mail delivery coming to the door. All those things are blended into one track over top of all the other voices. And it's super hard to fix separate tracks for every voice in your recording software. However you record in Zoom is what I use. You can set it so that you get a track for every spoken voice. It's great. So do that, but then mute yourself, right? Be in the habit of using that mute button. If you find yourself to be too talkative, just hit the mute. It's so good. Post production is going to help. Your editor can help to fix all the pauses, clean up and polish the episode, and you can add in your intros and outros after the recording, which is also good. Instead of guessing at what you might talk about with your guest on the show, just record it after because then it's already happened and you know exactly what happened. So definitely use your tech to help you to stop talking over each other. It'll help your listener and it'll help for a better conversation. Here's our takeaway as we head out the door. Great hosts serve guests first. Pause, signal, edit and be smart as a content creator creating your episode. Your restraint during your podcast recording turns interviews into binge worthy golden episodes. Listeners will stay for the ease of the conversation and guests will return because you treated them well and you didn't step all over their feet. Don't be a clumsy dancer. Don't be stepping on your dance partner's feet when they're a guest on your show. Practice one episode this week where you are intentionally quiet when your guest is speaking. You have some way to communicate, verbally or non verbally with your co host, on camera or off, and give space to each other. Take a breath. A piece of silence can easily be removed, but two people fighting over the mic is just a distraction and we don't need that. And if you're a podcast expert, follow your own advice and podcast better because you need to be an example about the things that you teach so that we can all learn and have a better experience as podcast listeners. So stop stepping on each other's toes, stop grabbing the mic and fighting for control. Take a break, take a pause and listen because your audience will love your show. Even better. Thank you for being here. Take care. So I get asked quite often, usually at the end of a podcast, like right now. Dave, how can we help you? Like, how can we, as a listener, like support the show? Can we come rake your leaves? Can we cut the grass? Shovel the snow? Watch your dog help you move? What can we do? Clean your dishes oh, that'd be interesting. Well, if you don't. If you can't do that because, you know you're in Poland, maybe you can help us by supporting us with our Buy Me a Coffee. It's right there on our website. And, you know, it just will help us to a stay fueled because, you know, we drink a lot of coffee around here and it helps the show. So if you want to help us, it's out of the goodness of your heart. I can tell you that listening to the podcast to this point, you've already helped us so much. But I do have people saying, dave, I'd love to. To give back something small, even just to the show. Buy Me a Coffee link is on our website at howtopodcast ca. And you can support the show that way. It would mean a lot to have you on our team supporting what we do here. If you find value in the show, then that's great. Share the show, tell somebody about it. And when somebody says, dave, I want to start a podcast, who should I check out? Oh, you should go check out the how to Podcast series because of all the great co hosts and all the things that happen here, the meetups, everything. And I would appreciate that. And then fill her a cup once in a while if you can. But again, thank you so much for being here and supporting the how to Podcast series. Take care. Talk soon. You're still here. Awesome. Okay, this is a little bonus content at the end of the episode. This is just for people who stick around. So if you're here and you're listening to this, you've cracked the code. Everyone else has gone home. They won't hear any of this. So it's just you and me. So the question to me came up was, Dave, can you talk a little bit about downloads? Because I hear that downloads are important and everybody shares their download numbers. But what exactly is a download? And what do I need to know about downloads? Because I'm new to podcasting? Great question. Basically, if we go back through the history of podcasting, I. A download simply means that a file was transferred from your hosting site to somebody's device. A computer, a phone, whatever. A file has moved from one location to another location. That's a download. Now, what you didn't hear me say was that that was a listen, because it isn't a listen. A listen is when somebody's going to be pressing play and actually listening to the episode. A download is simply your file on somebody's device. Right now, on my phone, I have about 15 downloaded podcast episodes that these podcast hosts have got credit for on their stats. But I haven't listened to the episode, I haven't pressed play yet. I have no idea what they said on their show. So when you sell the idea of downloads to a sponsor and say my show has X number of downloads, what you're not saying and what you can't say for sure is that my show, my episode has this many listens. And when I hear people say that, well, I go to my Apple Dashboard on Apple Podcasts, I go to my Spotify for creators dashboard to look at my Spotify backend and the numbers don't match with my hosting site. Well, there's a reason for that. The Apple Dashboard is talking just about Apple and Spotify is talking just about Spotify. So who's right, Spotify and Apple or your hosting site? Well, I'm telling you, the hosting site, Buzzsprout, Libsyn, captivate Spotify for creators. All these other ones are getting information from the main source, which would be Apple, Spotify, Audible, all these places. But they're getting high level information, they're not getting specifics. So there's a lot of, there's a lot of math that happens for the hosting site and they only see what the, what Apple, Spotify and others will give them. They don't see everything. Apple can tell you everything about Apple. So if there is a mismatch of what's what the number is on Apple and what your hosting site says, trust the Trust Apple first for Apple information because Apple is giving you first party data, meaning it's coming directly from them. And your hosting site is getting third party data, meaning it's coming from somewhere else to them and then given to you. So trust first party data coming directly from the source if you're going to make decisions about your podcast. So a download is simply a file went from one computer to another computer, from one computer to a phone, one computer to a tablet, one computer to another. That's a download. But it doesn't mean anybody actually pressed play. And in most apps, broad statement here it takes about a minute to register a listen of your podcast. So if you have a 45 minute podcast episode and I listen to one minute of it, 44 minutes of your podcast went unheard and you got credit for the download and the listen. Congratulations. But I didn't, I haven't, I didn't even get past your intro. And if you have ads in your podcast, which some people do, your ad wasn't played, you got money for the ad because you got a download, which you can prove, but nobody got to the 20 minute mark where the ad was until nobody heard the ad. The sponsor paid you money for the ad that nobody heard, so that doesn't seem fair. The biggest thing I would say before you hyper fixate on downloads is to focus on time spent listening. Time spent listening means I press play on the episode and I listen to the end. You're here right now with me. Time spent listening for this episode with you still here is better than a download where you listen to 60 seconds and bounced. You're still here. That tells this app whatever you're listening on, whatever app it is, YouTube, Apple, Spotify, Audible, fill in the blank. Whatever you're playing this episode on right now, you still being here is telling that app that this is a good episode because you're still here. Time spent listening means how long do people listen to the episode before they left. So you being here to me as a podcaster means more than a review, more than a five star rating. It does. Because you're still here. You're proving to the app that this podcast is worth listening to more than a minute. You're still here. So thank you for proving this podcast right with your listen and to be here this far. That's why I'm doing these bonus pieces at the end of the podcast to encourage people to listen longer, to get a little extra bonus at the end of the episode. So a download is a file that moves from one computer to another computer. No listen required. Congratulations, you got a Download, a listen, 60 seconds ish of content listen triggers a listen. And you still got credit on your analytics, so well done. But time spent listening, this right here that you and I are doing right now is the best measurement for podcasters. You're going to see downloads disappearing from the from the conversation more and more going forward and more conversation around TSL time spent listening than downloads. So if you want to be ahead of the curve, talk less about downloads and talk more about time spent listening. If you need help at a podcast, ca, thanks for being here. Take care.