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The How To Podcast Series - Podcast Co-Hosts, Practical Podcast Tips, and Podcast Community
E640 - Beating “Boring Fatigue” - How to Bring Real Energy to Virtual Communication
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Okay, we're rolling. Hey, welcome back to the how to Podcast series. My name is Dave. I'm so glad to be here with you. Episode 640. Wow. You know, we're getting up there. Hey, you know, we're like. We're in the middle of March. Ish. Near the. Well, we're to the end of March, I guess, right? Yeah. April's coming. Wow, Dave, catch up. Yeah. We are plugging through daily episodes of the how to Podcast series. We are going to out on socials every day in the year 2026. 365 episodes in a row. It's a lot. We have our meetups that we're doing as well. Twice a week. We are all over the place. So we're having a great time, and I'm glad you're along for the ride. This is your first time here. Welcome to the show. And if you've come back, then, even better. Glad to have you back. I want to talk about this idea of that we're all just. We just have, like, zoom fatigue or Riverside fatigue or squad cast fatigue. We just have this fatigue about being online virtually and doing what we do as podcasters, and we're just, like, so tired of this online thing. I'm just jonesing. There you go. There's a word. Jones. And for in real life, connection with real people. Like it. Like, actually, I can, like, give them a hug. Like, I can't do that without, like, hugging my monitor. Right. It's just. I just. I got the zoom fatigue. I got the zoom fatigue blues. Right. And I think you don't have the zoom fatigue blues. Actually. Actually, I don't think you have that. What I think you have is the boring fatigue blues. I think you're just bored and you're blaming it on Zoom. Might just be blaming it all on Zoom. And it's really not Zoom's fault. It's. You're just bored. The content's boring. The guest is boring. Something's boring. Something's not connecting. And so you're blaming it just on Zoom. Because Zoom is an inanimate object. It doesn't have any feeling. So if I blame Zoom, I don't feel guilty. If I blame my guest, if I blame myself, well, that's. That's reflective. I'm not going to do that. So I'm going to blame Zoom. And I think that there's actually something going on here. I think you're just bored. I really, really think you're just bored. I think we need to learn how to bring Real energy to our virtual conversations and communication online. I think it's up to us to turn up that dial and we're going to talk about this here on the show today. So I'm glad you're here. Let's turn it up just a little bit. And I'm glad you're on the podcast with me. Here we go. So fatigue is basically when you're just low energy. And when I listen to podcasts, I can tell when you're having a low energy day. I can tell when you're just phoning it in. You're just. You're doing it because you got to. It's. It's Monday, and I record on Monday, so I got to do my Monday. I don't really feel like it. I'd much rather be doing something else, but I committed to doing this podcast thing. So I'll get on here and just crank something. I'll put it out there and move on with my life. And the energy level that you bring to your show seems really low. There's low intention, there's low interaction and low effort from you as a podcaster. And it comes through the microphone directly into my ears. I. I feel like you don't really care or give a crap about this new episode you just released, but you did it because any. You have to do it. You know, it's out of obligation, not out of passion anymore. And that's a dangerous slippery slope to be on when you're doing this because you feel like you have to, not because you get to. It's more an obligation than an opportunity for you. If you treat virtual like in person, but subtract the movement, eye contact, and the variety, people disconnect fast. I think we as podcasters, that's when we podcast. By herself. I'm podcasting right now by myself. We have to turn up our internal energy. I would like to say, like, by 70, 80% more than you normally would be. I don't normally talk at this level. This cadence, this speed when I'm just hanging around the house. I dropped. My energy level drops, really, as an introvert, I'm not this vocal. I'm not this animated. I'm a pretty quiet guy. And you don't get a lot out of Dave. When I'm not on the mic, I'm not different. I'm not pretending to be something else. I just know that if I'm gonna be connecting with you, I can't be boring. I gotta turn it up a little bit. So I liked 70, 80% is kind of. Mike, if you think of a thermostat on your house, I know some people where you live, you don't have heat like a thermostat we do in Canada. Otherwise it's really not good for us. So you turn up the temperature, right? There's a little dial on the wall that makes your house warmer or colder in those. In the summer, we have that thermostat, right? And I think that's what we have internally as podcasters. We have this little dial and we can turn it up, it could turn it down. I think that we need to work on our energy dial, especially when we're feeling fatigued and we're again blaming zoom because we're just not feeling it. Think of your energy dial as what the camera actually feels from you, what the microphone feels from you, and what you feel internally. On video, everything is flattened. And also on the mic, you have to engage with the theater of the mind with your audience. You don't have the benefit of a visual when you're an audio only podcast. So whether you're audio or video, this could work for both. But I want you to, next time you sit down or do your next podcast, the way to stand or sit tall and don't be slouched over. Leaning back in your chair. Your breath and your voice need to have room. And when you're slouched over your. Your torso and everything inside of you is squished. So sitting tall, standing is great. And don't slouch. Just like your, your grandmother, your Nona, whatever would come over and slap you on the back of the head and go, stand up. Right? Don't slouch. Yeah, don't do that. I'm gonna come over to your house and give you a little whack on the back of the head. Don't slouch. Sit up, be present. Throw your shoulders back. Sit up straight. Stand up. Even better. And give your breath some room. Give yourself, give your lungs a chance. Also use some bigger facial expressions. We talked about this here in the podcast in the past. Put a mirror on your monitor so you can see yourself while you're recording. Look at you. Look at your face and tell your face that you're excited because you don't sound excited on the mic. You sound like this is laborious for you. Like it just. And it's coming through the mic and I'm not going to listen to you be boring, okay? I've got better things to do, so stop it. And use some bigger facial expressions and more obvious Nods when you're with somebody on in an interview that can really engage with your guest and show that you actually care. And the other thing that I love too is having a. If you're going to be on video, is having a wide enough camera capture of your body where I can see your hands. So if you put your hands up, I have my hands up right now, kind of like shoulder width, so I can touch my shoulders with my thumbs. Okay. And my hands are in front of me to the left and right of me. That kind of space on the camera, on the screen when you're recording is great because now I have this. I can see what I'm doing with my hands. I can use my hands as I'm talking. And I'm using my hands right now and there's nobody here, which is really weird. But I'm using my hands, I'm accenting my points and I'm kind of moving my hands around, not careful to hit my mic, but I'm just moving my hands around as I talk. Because that's what we do, right? We move our hands. All of this comes through the microphone, even if you're not doing video. So gesture inside the frame of your video. And again, even if you're not on video, you're just doing audio, but gesture and do it on purpose. And I would say the other thing would be if you're like me and you talk kind of slow because, you know, you're pretty even slower speaker like I am normally just to speak about 10 to 15% faster than you might normally do around your friends and family. And then like we've talked about in the past, speak with clear articulation and use intentional pauses. By doing these things, it gives your voice some variety and it keeps people engaged. It's not a steady wall of right. People just tune out when there's nothing to tune into. So keep that in mind. Turn up your energy by 70 to 80%. Turn up your speaking speed maybe 10 to 15% faster. If you normally talk super fast, you might want to go tune it down a little bit because you might be too far ahead of your audience as well. Before hitting record or going live, do a two to three minute warmup. Shake out your arms, do that adrenaline drop, whatever that is for you. Get outside, throw the ball with the dog, go grab a glass of water, do some stretches, I don't know, do some tongue twisters, hum, sing a song, do a little dance party. Right now, it's Dula Lipa levitating, right? Whatever that song is my granddaughter just loves that song. So that's a dance party in her house. Do something like that before you jump on the mic, because it just gets all the nerves out, gets all the energy out, and you're more focused. So do that. And you should feel slightly silly and slightly out of breath when you do your podcast. That's about the right energy level for you. Whether you're on camera or you're just an audio only, you should feel like it's work. And when you're just kind of doing the thing and doing the thing and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, there's no energy and I can't connect with you. So stop that. Turn up the energy. We need a little bit more of you, please. And I'm a. I'm an introvert, and I'm doing it. God. So if I can do it, you can do it. I think we also need to be more animated and engaging with our guests when we host a guest on our show. Why? Because it's important. I've been on podcasts that are amazing. Hosts are really engaging. I've been on podcasts where the host is completely checked out, and I'm like, should we reschedule? Because you look bored, like you're asking me questions. I don't even think you care for the answer. You're just like, whatever, get this over with. Come on. We need to be more animated and engaged with our guests. This is an opportunity people give, giving us their time to be on our show, and you're just like, phoning it in like it doesn't really matter. Nobody's gonna listen to us anyway. Okay, that's a great starting point, right? When you have a guest, your job is to host the room, host the party, not just the person asking the questions off a list in front of you. You're here to host the room. You're creating a show. You're not just having a conversation. A podcast is a show. It's entertainment. You're entertaining an audience. You're captivating a listener. And if you forget about them, your show's going to fall apart, and you're going to be part of the fatigue that you're feeling. Your audience is going to feel it, so stop that. Open with a strong welcome. Name your guest, why they matter, and what listeners will walk away with. Don't just start talking like, we all know what's going on as a listener, because we don't. We don't know the name of your guest. And you just like you. Yeah. So, yeah, it was really Good. That was a great conversation. I'm glad you're here. That's one. Yeah. Yeah, me too. That weekend was really good. Okay, yeah. So first question. Wait, what? Who's the guest? What's happening? What's the name of the podcast? What's happening here? I have no idea. First timer. I have no clue, Right? Oh, we're just keeping it real, Dave. We don't edit. Yeah, it's obvious you don't edit it. It sounds terrible. So please do something. Think of your guest. Think of. Think of your listener. Please visibly react when people talk. When you're doing something, virtually lean in, smile, laugh, jot notes, look impressed. Be curious. Let your face tell the audience that, hey, this is actually really interesting. I'm digging this. I love this. This guest is really, really captivating. Wow, I'm learning something right now. Remember to tell your face because if we see a video version of you on online. Oh, my gosh. Even if you're not going to release a video, it's just you and the guest and you're using the video to orchestrate the recording, but there's no video going to be released. Be engaged. Put your phone away. Why do you have your phone in your hand? Put it away. You don't need your phone. Focus on your guest and visibly react to what's happening in the moment. Your guest is going to love it when you acknowledge them. Look into the camera. Connect with your guest. It's really good. Ask follow ups, that signal that you're really listening. Things like, okay, well, you know, you mentioned this part back earlier. Can you take us to that moment when this really clicked for you? Because I want to go back to that, because I was. I think that was really interesting. It shows for you, the guest and the listener that you're paying attention. So please don't be afraid to go back in the conversation and bring something up. Or bring something from the earlier of the conversation into the later part of the conversation. Those are callbacks. They really work well. Vary the rhythm of your voice. Mix in some rapid fire questions. Maybe a deeper story than a quick, practical takeaway. Flat rhythm equals boring fatigue. Don't be boring. Keep your podcast moving. By keeping the rhythm of your podcast happening, you should be going somewhere in this show and you should know where you're going. Use names often to invite your guests to play. Okay, I'm gonna throw a curveball at you. Or let's do this thing. We like to do a lightning round. I don't really like to do a lightning round, but do something that signals. Hey. Okay, we're going to divert from our conversation for a second. We're going to go this way. A the guest is going to feel like, wow, this is fun. And the audience is going to be more engaged as well. Even if it's audio only. Act like you're on stage in a small room in front of a live audience. Your guest will mirror your energy if you show up with energy. If you show up with no energy, don't expect your guests to save your show. They're not there to do that. Your show. If you don't give a crap about your show, it's not your guest's fault. If your audience doesn't listen, it's your fault. So show up with some energy. Come on. So we need energy when we're working with our guests. We need energy when we're talking to our audience. Your audience is alone with you, so make it feel like a live conversation, not some kind of voice memo. Hey, it's Dave. Yeah, hope you're all good. Give me a call sometime. Go for coffee. Come on. That's not how you do a podcast. Come on, talk to one person. I do this, actually, some of my other. Living the next chapter. I do this all the time. I say everyone, but really we shouldn't. We should be focusing on one person. Hey, you guys, it's pretty obvious that you hear a lot of that on YouTube. Remember that YouTube can be more of a social group viewing experience sometimes and podcasts are a little bit more personal, one on one. So try to frame your conversations and how you address your audience to be more centric on one person. It's a great thing to do. Hard to remember at times, but be obvious and try to do this as much as you can. If you are the type of person like me that always says, hey, everyone, hey guys, nice to have you here. That's just kind of my lingo. Outside of podcasting, then take intentional moments within the episode to speak to the one person to counterbalance some of your group speak. Don't. If you don't. If you. If you're normally a group speaking person, don't take that away. That's you. Don't change. Don't. But be intentional and add in some one on one time with your listener to counterbalance some of that. There you go. Use short visual hooks and audio hooks. Things like. Okay, let me. Let me just paint the picture here for you. Here's what happened on my way to work today. Or imagine you're logging into yet another zoom Call and this happens. Has this ever happened for you? See these little touch points with your audience? Make them go, yeah, that happened to me. And create little micro interactions, like, ask a question, pause, and then tell them what to do with it. Like, answer this out loud in your or in your head. Have you ever jumped off a building? Well, my guest has. Little things like that are just like. It brings people in and you're talking to your listener at that point. And then change gears. I like doing this in my podcast. Change gears every like, 60 to 90 seconds. Go to a story, then an insight, then a specific action, and then a quick example. Don't just do one thing for 45 minutes straight. It's boring. It's. You're going to cause listener fatigue. Don't do that. Don't be boring. Let your voice move volume up for key lines and softer for intimacy. Smile when you talk and allow for genuine laughter. Be silly if you can be silly on your show. If you have a grief podcast, and you might not want to be silly, but be silly. Be you. Be the same you that I'm gonna see at an event, I'm gonna stand in line behind at the coffee shop that I'm gonna meet on the street. Be you. So how do you solve for this? Zoom fatigue, Listener fatigue. What do we do? How do we beat being a boring person on the mic? And visually, if you want to stop being boring, then get away from the monotone voice. Add some gallop to your voice. Add some differences somewhere for your voice goes so that your audience is with you. Don't forget to pause. Static bodies mean static reactions from your audience. So be active. Be. Be animated on the mic, even if you're not on camera. If you avoid variety in your podcast, you could get boring. It could be fatiguing. Fatiguing? Is that a word? Yeah, it could be fatiguing. Let's make that up. And as well, no genuine emotional stakes. Like, I don't feel like you care about what you're talking about. I don't feel like you're emotionally connected with what you're saying in the moment is. Is very disconnecting for your audience. So people blame zoom, not the experience. To fight boring fatigue, I would encourage you to over prepare for the first 60 seconds of your show so that you start hot, like you're into the topic right from the beginning. Not like it's going to take you five minutes to warm up into what's going to happen in the show. So over prepare for that beginning of the episode. Start strong Build at least one pattern hook and break into every segment. A surprising question, a personal confession, a quick story. You could even shift in angle. Like, let me argue the opposite of what we just talked about. You said, A, well, what if you believe? B, let's talk to that person. Give something different that makes people think. Right? And I think the other thing here is just be ruthless and cut the filler. Super long intros with 15 minutes of music before the podcast starts. It's not required. It's not. Don't do that. Get to it. Just get to it. Honor people's time. Housekeeping, repeated points, ongoing resume in your LinkedIn bio in every episode. That's fatiguing. I could just like, come on, we don't need that. We need to get to the thing. I'm here for the thing. Right? It's like inviting people to your house for a party. They show up at the door and you're like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Before we have fun, let me tell you about my week. Let me tell you what my cat did today. Really? Can we just. Can we come in? Like, no, wait here on the step. I want to tell you about my day. Come on, get to it. Higher energy content always feels better for the listener. It's always better on video. So lean into what makes you animated, engaging, and more fun, and your audience is going to love it. If you in your podcast treat virtual connection like a performance that needs clear structure, your emotions are there on display, and you're 70 to 80% more energy and more energetic in your presentation virtually than what feels normal to you in an everyday interaction with somebody. Your guests and your listeners will feel more awake, more connected, and far less fatigued because they're not bored. So please don't be boring. I hear this in podcasting quite often, and it's true. We need to do something that stands out against all of the other podcasts that talk about all the same things we do. We need to show up as us and a little bit more. So don't be a boring recipe that, with no flavor, no spice, nothing that goes, makes you want to have another bite or stick around. You want to add some of your own personal herbs and spices and make your show better and make your connection with your audience deeper. And that starts with you. So if you feel bored and fatigued and you're blaming it on zoom and the fact that you're going to do yet another interview online, and I just don't want to do another virtual conversation, then you need to fix the problem. The Problem isn't zoom. The problem isn't your guest. The problem is you. So turn it up. Come on. There's another gear you have. You've been excited before. Then go there and turn it up a little bit. A little bit more of you is going to really connect well with your audience and they're looking for it from you. So turn it up. Let's go. So here at the how to Podcast series, we love to hear from you. You might think that we get a lot of feedback, man. We don't. We don't get a lot because people just feel like, why bother? Like, why does Dave really care what I have to say? And I do. I actually do really care what you have to say. I love your input. I love hearing from you. And we've started a survey for our listening audience, which includes you right here, right now. And I'd love, love, love for you to head over to HowToPodcast Cat, and you'll see our survey right there on our website and take a few minutes, come through, answer the thoughtful questions we're asking of you to make the show better, not just for you, but for everyone. Your feedback is really going to help shape the show. And I selfishly just want to hear from you. So if you're thinking, Dave probably already knows what I think. I don't. I really don't. I'm not good at reading minds. My wife will confirm that completely. So I. I don't really know what you think of the show. I don't know if you like it, if you like how long the show is, how long the episodes are that Dave's doing 365 episodes in a year. Oh, my gosh. Like, I would love to hear from you and get your thoughts on this very show right here. So head over to howtopodcast ca click on our survey link. It's also in the show notes for every episode in their most recent episodes. And I'd love to hear from you. So as a listener of this hear very show, your feedback can make this show so much better. So much better. And I'm not drowning in emails and voice messages and speak pipes and buy me a coffees right now. So I'm putting the ask out to you right now as a listener of the show and you're still here that you take a moment, head over to our website, click the link in the show notes for any episode and go to our survey and let us know your thoughts about this show, how it could be better and what you love and what you're like, dave, can you stop doing this? That would be really helpful. Thanks for being here and being part of the how to Podcast family. See you over@howtopodcast.ca. talk soon. Thanks for being here. Bye. Okay, you're still here. Great. This is the extra part at the end. You know, everybody else is gone. Just you and me. So what if we could do just a quick question and answer at the end of the episode? Bonus content. Nobody else will know that we're talking about this. Just you and me. Okay, so let's do this. The question came into me through a coaching call with a podcaster, and they said, dave, I want to get better at public speaking. How do I do that? And it. It was shockingly simple. The answer, if you want to be great at public speaking, then speak more in public. I know, I know. It's true. People are like, well, I don't have opportunities to speak in public. I'm like, do you have kids? Yeah. Do you read them books at night? Not very often, but maybe you should. Maybe you should do that more often. When you read to your kids out loud, you are reading out loud. You're speaking in public. Have you ever been to a restaurant and ordered something from the menu? Server comes to your table and says, hi. How. What would you like tonight? Did you open your mouth and say anything, or do you just stare at them awkwardly and point at the menu without saying a word? No, you actually opened your mouth and went, hey, yeah, I would like to have the chicken parm. Right? You just spoke in public. Congratulations. Well done. You have been speaking in public the whole time, so just do more of that. You can always talk in your car and just talk about anything. Everyone thinks you're just on speakerphone unless the window's down. Everyone just thinks you're talking on speakerphone. So. And that's everyone else is doing that. So blend in. You can be in the HOV lane, just blah, blah, blah, talking away. And you're practicing. Nobody needs to know. So if you want to be better at public speaking and get over that fear of speaking in public, speak in public. Put up your hand in the next meeting where you know, we're going around the table and you normally don't talk at all. Put your hand up, jump into the conversation, volunteer to go and talk to somebody. Put yourself into a place where you're going to be uncomfortable, yet you're going to learn something just by putting yourself out there. Seize the opportunities where you can speak in public. You're going to grow faster. It's going to happen and you're already doing it. You're just not intentional. You don't need to have a bunch of people sitting in chairs staring at you to be speaking in public. That comes later. Speaking in public just comes from you speaking out loud, not in your head out loud in public. So go do that and do it often. The more you do it the better you're going to get. The more confidence you're going to have and you'll find your voice. You can't find your voice if you don't use it. So speak in public. That's going to really help you. It's going to help you with your fear. And when you do get that opportunity to stand in front of a, front of a group of people, 5, 10, 20 people, you've already put in hours and hours of practice speaking out loud in public. So go do that. Go do it today. Let me know how it turns out.