← The How To Podcast Series - Podcast Co-Hosts, Practical Podcast Tips, and Podcast Community
The How To Podcast Series - Podcast Co-Hosts, Practical Podcast Tips, and Podcast Community
E641 - Stop One-upping Others in Coversation - Stop Competing With Others by Reframing What Connecting Really Is
00:31:43
Loading summary
Transcript13 lines
- [00:00]
A
Okay, we're rolling. Hey, welcome back to the how to podcast series. Glad to have you here with me yet again. I want to know, are you a 1 upper or 1 upper? Do you one up people think about this for a second. Conversation happens, hanging around by the water cooler talking about the weekend. Somebody tells you about their weekend, but you immediately jump on top of them and you do one better than what they just said. So if they did, they went to the beach. You. You went to five beaches. You know, they had one barbecue. You had three barbecues this weekend. Yeah, they read a book. Oh, I read a book a day. Okay. Okay. They. They cut their lawn. You cut four lawns. I cut four lawns. Really? You are always quick to one up what everybody else is saying. I think it's clumsy. I think it is a little bit selfish, and I think you're a little insecure in the moment because you don't want to share the spotlight with others. So if you're a one upper and it's chronic one upping, I think your clumsy attempts to connect with people by one upping everyone is actually pushing people away from you. And as a podcaster, that's not a good thing to do, especially with your guest. Don't one up them. It's time to talk about this here on the show. I'm glad you're here. It's a safe place, by the way. Here we go. So let's see if I can recreate this. Okay. You come into the office, it's Monday morning. You come with your lunch bag. You go to your cubicle, you sit down, and Steve, you know, Steve, Steve stands up and leans over into your cubicle from his. Hey, how's the weekend? You're like, good, Steve, good. Yeah. What'd you do? You're like, well, you know, grab the kids and through. Through both of the kids in the car. We went for a drive. And Steve says, well, we, we went
- [02:22]
B
out with the kids too. Yeah, we have, we have our three kids, their friends, and like, there was about seven or eight of us. Yeah, we went out to this weekend.
- [02:30]
A
Yeah, you're like, that's great, Steve. Yeah. Anyways, we got the kids, we got in the car, we went for. Went down to the beach. It took us about, you know, two hours to get there. And of course, Steve chimes in, yeah,
- [02:40]
B
we, we go that. We go to that beach too. We, we go there so often. We, we can get there in like five.
- [02:46]
A
Yeah, you're okay. Yes, Steve, I get it. So anyways, we went there we're there for the day. It was fun. You know, we. We found, like, five seashells was really fun, and the kids had a lot of fun. And Steve comes back.
- [03:03]
B
You know, I've been collecting seashells for 25 years. I've got a collection of 4,000 seashells. So, yeah, I know a lot about seashells.
- [03:11]
A
This whole time you're thinking, steve, sit down, back in your cubicle before I throw my stapler at your face, right? You're just like, everything you say, Steve has something better to say about that, right? So, yeah, you continue. Well, on the way home, then stopped off at the. To get gas, and I looked down, and there's, like, a 20 bill on the ground. I'm like, this is the best day of my life. And as always, Steve chimes in, that's
- [03:40]
B
crazy, because I won the lotto this weekend, and I won a million dollars. Like, it's amazing.
- [03:49]
A
So Steve, just. Every single thing you say, Steve has one more level, right? And he. Everything. You could say that you. You cut off three toes, and he would say, cut off 10, 11, maybe even 12 toes, because, you know, he has that many. Everything you say, Steve has one level greater than you. And what's happening in this moment is this joust, jousting. You know, the horses and the knights, and they come, they ride at each other with long poles, and they try to knock each other off a horse. They're jousting, right? This is what's happening in the office. You're not dressed as a knight. There's no horses, no long poles. But you're jousting. And it's just this. You're. You're just trying to tell him your weekend, but he's got to come back with one better. And when I'm listening to podcasts, I'm hearing podcasters do this exact same thing. They ask their guest a question. The guest answers the question, and instead of going into the next logical question and carrying the conversation forward, no, the host has to give their side of the story that complements or goes along with or goes above and beyond what the guest just said. And the guest is sitting there listening to the host now go on and on and on and on about their version of their own question. Like, the guest isn't even required. And it should just be a solo episode, really, because the host just loves hearing their own voice, and the guest is an audience member at that point, no longer a guest. I think we need to reframe what connecting in communication really means. And instead of proving that you relate to somebody and what they're saying by topping their story. I think we need to redefine connection as expansion, not comparison. Your job as a podcaster is to help the story grow, not replace their story with your story. Even when you have a better example, treat their story as the main event. And I posted something about this recently on social media and I had a podcast guru push back on me and say, no, I think you're wrong. And yeah, so I know there's some people have really strong feelings about this, but I like an idea of when. When I'm talking with somebody in real life or on my podcast and they share a story. Before I default, set back to just jumping in with my own take from my life to carry the conversation forward. I want to do something different. And here's something that might really help you. If you feel like you're a 1 upper. This can really help save your conversation, save your podcast, and save your connection with the person you're talking to. This can really save the day. So if you have your hand in the air, you're like, dave, I'm a one upper. I realize it when I listen back to my podcast. My guest talks, and I feel like I just have to add my 2 cents to everything they say. And I feel like I'm almost demeaning my guest by. By always feeling compelled to share my thing. I gotta share my thing. I'll give you my take on this topic like it's a conversation, less like an interview. Right. I just want to reframe this a little bit. So I have this. I've seen other people talk about this, have a three question rule to when somebody gives you their answer to a question, a story, but you feel compelled to jump in right away. Before you jump in, then I want you to ask three meaningful questions about the answer your guest or that person standing in front of you just gave you before you go to your point that you want to share. Okay, so let's do it in this context. You ask a question to your guest and you say, what'd you do on the weekend? And your guest says, well, I went sailing. Now you've been sailing for 40 years. And you're like, oh, I want to tell you about my sailing my sailboat. Bite your tongue. I know it hurts, but bite your tongue. They this happens for me with music. When I find out there's a musician in front of me. I've been playing music for 46 years, right? And here's somebody in front of me that Plays guitar, bass, drums, piano, like I do. And I'm just like, oh my gosh, we're best friends, right? But I know, I know that I need to hold back. I'm dangerously close to one upping them, right? Or podcasts. When I go, when I talk to any kind of like event, a virtual event in person eventually. And people say, do you have a podcast? I'm like, I'll ask you, do you have a podcast? Yeah, yeah, I got a podcast. Great. And I'm like waiting for you to ask me if I have a podcast because I have nine, right? And I just want to do that. But before I do that, I do this thing where I purposely go before I want. Before I go talk about me and kind of answer my own question in front of my guest, I'm going to ask them three questions more and dig a little deeper to their answer before I come back with mine, right? So if I have asked my guest about sailing and they say that they went, they, they went sailing this weekend and I want to talk about my sailing background, I still want to honor them. So I'm going to ask them three more questions about sailing from their perspective before I start talking about me. Really works well to try this. Before you add your own story to any conversation or any question you've asked or what's come up in conversation, ask at least three meaningful follow up questions of the person in front of you about their answer. Go deeper on their answer before you go to yours. Okay? It's. You have to mentally prepare for this. So think about this and put some effort into this. If you're a one upper, okay? So ask things like, of these three questions, for example, they've given your. Their answer, I went sailing this weekend.
- [10:37]
B
Okay.
- [10:39]
A
Ask something like, what was, what was like the most fun part for you about sailing? Again, you've been sailing for over 40 years. You're like, I want to talk about sailing. Relax there. Back up, back up, back up. Ask them what was the most fun part about sailing this weekend? And they tell you their answer. They go a little deeper. Great, now you want to jump in? No, no, no, we got two more. And then ask them something like, well, how did it feel to be out on the water? Like, did you really enjoy that? Okay, now you really want to talk about sailing because you've been doing this your whole life. You're like, oh my gosh, I have a new sailing friend. Hang on. After they finish the second question about their sailing adventure and their sailing story, ask him one more. What did you like, what did you take away from that? Do you think you're gonna go sailing again? See, what's happening here is I am. I am showing my. My excitement for the sailing conversation because I. I've never sailed, by the way. I'm sharing my ex my excitement about sailing and talking to somebody about something that I am also interested in. But I'm holding back on Dave. To honor the person in front of me, I've now asked them three supplemental questions about sailing from their point of view. And then after that third question, when now they've really opened up to me over the. Because they've talked about their own experience. Everyone loves talking about their own experience. So by me holding back on my quick reaction in the moment and just blurting out my sailing story and one upping them in the moment because I've been doing it longer than they have. I have honored them, given them space. They've developed their thoughts even deeper in more detail, and we're bonding after that third question and giving them space. I then have a platform to come in and go, you know, I love sailing too. I've been sailing for, like, 45 years. And they're like, wow, what? You sail? Yeah. Yeah, I love sailing. And I really love how you responded to those questions, because that's how I feel. That's amazing. What just happened there? We didn't. I didn't one up them. We found common ground. There's connection, and I didn't step all over them. Okay. I didn't step on my guest. And I hear so often in podcasting where podcasters are just so quick to jump in with their story to tell me about. Did you. Did you write a book? Yeah, I wrote a book. Well, I wrote four books. You're like, you're so excited that you wrote four books. You've just negated that person's answer and you've one up them. Now they feel inadequate because they've only written one book and you've written four, so why am I even here? Don't one up your guests. Don't one up the people in front of you in real life. Ask three meaningful questions about their answer before you ever start talking about yourself. This is going to save you from destroying conversations and connections by asking three simple questions by you slowing yourself down. I know you're excited. I know you want to talk music with another music person. I know you want to talk podcasting with another podcaster. You just want to do it. But slow down, ask more questions, get deeper, and find out more about that person and honor them before you turn your attention back to you. Because now you have common ground. You're not fighting for attention and you're not fighting to get your voice into the conversation. Slow down, focus on your guest, focus on the person in front of you, and ask three meaningful questions before you proceed. I really want you to try this in your next conversation. By the time you finally share your prone perspective, it feels more like a response, not a hijack in the moment because you've. You've already honored their experience. You gave them space before you jumped in with your experience with your thoughts and your story. It's not a matter of who's got the best story at the end of the podcast or the. Or the end of the conversation connection. It's who was honored by who. And that's your job is to honor your guest. Some practical things that you can do to re as a recovering one upper. Okay. There's some things you can do. Okay, so you're like, I, Dave, this is so me. I am such a one upper. With my partner, with my kids, at my job, around the water cooler on my podcast, I'm a one upper. I gotta get out of this. I gotta recover from this. What do I do? Use some of these as on mic habits and off mic training to help you. Okay, so name and notice the urge that you have to jump in to a conversation and one up the person in front of you. Okay. When you feel that overwhelming urge to. When your whole body's screaming, oh, I got a story like that. Oh, I want to tell you about my thing. Oh, I want to tell you about the time I did that. Oh, hurry up and stop talking so I can talk. When you feel that, I want you to mentally tag it and park it inside your brain. Instead of blurting it out and stumbling all over yourself. Tag it and park it. Okay. If it's relevant after they're fully done and you've gone through those three additional questions, then bring it in, but do so briefly. This is not an opportunity for you to go on and on and on. It's a connection point in that moment because you've honored them with those three supplemental questions. Another thing you can do, mirror, but don't match. Instead of saying things like, I did that too, but bigger and better than you, because I'm better and I one up you all the time. No, try this. Say something like, that's amazing. So for you, the big moment was this, right? And then mirror their emotions and theme, but not their stats. Okay, so if they did something once and you did it four times. Don't go to the four times you've done it. Just mirror them, okay. And keep your follow up shorter than the length of time that they shared their story. If you talk 20, 30, 50, 100% longer than they did, you're doing it wrong. So they talk, they give you your answer. You ask them the three supplemental questions. Your answer at this point, when you do want to jump in, has to be shorter than that. Okay? Keep your answer short. It gives them the opportunity to ask you the questions. That's fun. That's better than you stepping all over them. Keep your follow up shorter than their share. If their story took two minutes and your related story should be at least maybe one minute or less. And if you can keep it short, if you can't do that, then just skip it altogether. Don't do it. And swap these topper phrases for curiosity phrases. Replace things like when somebody says something and you come back with, oh, that's nothing I right. Or oh, the same thing happened to me. Take those out of your language, take those out of your natural responses and replace them with things like, you know, that actually reminds me of something that happened for me. But I want to stay on your story for a moment. Can we talk more about this? You've opened the door that you have a related story, but you didn't share it. And if you never share it, that's fine, but you've opened the door and you haven't stepped all over them in the moment. This is really good in a podcast, really good with an interview. Because you're not competing now, right? It's about them. When you have a guest on your show, the guest on your show is the main priority. Yes, we're connecting with the audience. That's super important. But you're there to serve the guest. You're not there to be self serving in the moment. Use their story as the lens. This is really impactful as well. When you do, when you actually get to the part where you do share your example, tie it back to them. So when you say stuff like when I heard you talk about your trip to Cuba, it made me realize something similar from my trip. Does my experience resonate with your experience? When you went to Cuba, this is what we found. Did you find the same. You've now you brought in your side of it, but then you went right back to them. Do you see what you did? Like, it's not all about you and I know your story is great. Do a solo episode. If it's that great. Your guest is the priority. Here's some more podcaster specific moves that you can use as a self defined one upper that can make your podcast better. Here's some things we can do as podcasters. On your podcast, you're the facilitator first and your personality is second in the conversation. Design your role for each segment. Decide in this part I'm 80% listener and 20% storyteller. That keeps you from unconsciously wrestling the mic away from the other person. Reflect back before you respond. A quick summary like so what I'm hearing you say when you tell me your story. This shows that you value their story more than your next line and hand the ball back as well. After sharing your own piece. Remember they told their story. You've asked them three supplemental questions. You've now shared your side of it. Then give the ball back right to passing the ball back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. Pass it back to them. After sharing your own piece, immediately return it to them and say how? How does this land for you? Was this your experience? How? How did you see it? What happened for you? What would you add to this from your experience? This is you giving back the the ball to them. The ball is now in their court as we say hand the ball back and then edit your one ups completely out of your podcast. We talk about the fact that editing is your is a great thing to do and if you don't edit your show, you're kind of missing out on some great opportunities to make a better podcast. It might be great, but it could be better. Editing's great for that. When you catch yourself one upping in the raw recording as you edit your show than just get out the big old scissors and cut that crap out because these things don't add value to the conversation. Hearing yourself later is a powerful behavior feedback mechanism which can really help you to be more in the moment and catch it more often because you are aware of it. When you never edit your show, you don't know what you're doing and you don't know the little things that are annoying to you, your guest and your listener. So edit your show. You're going to be a better person for it. And then I like to invite people to go first always on topics that you relate to. Strongly deliberately ask. I've got thoughts on this, but I'd love to hear your take on this before I share my thoughts. I'm putting them first because I know going to step on them if I don't there's some inner work behind this habit, and I think this is something that all of us need to learn. No matter if you're a super one upper or you just do it occasionally, there's some inner work behind this habit that can really help. There's seeds of one upping that find their place in, maybe for some people, some insecurity or. Or maybe fear, or you just don't feel like you've been seen or recognized. So you're using one upping as a way to show engagement and excitement and connection, but it's being taken the wrong way by the people in front of you. As you build your shows, remember your value is already established because you're the host of the podcast. You don't have to prove yourself and you don't have to prove that you belong here in every answer. We already know you're the host of the show. You don't have to prove it to us in every episode and in every comment and every response. When you trust that, it's much easier to let the guest's story breathe. And you get to use your voice to spotlight them, not outshine them. The spotlight is for your guest. Shine the light brightly on them. Serve them well. And when you feel that urge to jump in and one up your guest with a better story, more detail, better results, better stats, better wow. When you feel that urgent, park it, tag it, and ask them three more supplemental questions about their experience before you add any of your own. And if it doesn't fit for you to add your experience, then leave it out. Your guests will have a better time on your show. They will feel heard. They'll feel seen. Your audience will get the complete side of your guest and it won't sound like a competition because you're not competing with anybody. You're focused on building your guest and building the conversation for the benefit of your audience. So stop one upping others in conversation, in person, on your podcast. Stop competing with others by reframing what connecting really is. It's not about one upping. It's not about being the star of the show. You already are the star of the show. It's your podcast. You don't have to prove it to anybody, especially not to yourself. So relax, ask those supplemental questions, build on the relationship, and you'll have a better podcast. Try it. And if you find yourself to be a one upper, I'd love to hear about it. Howtopodcast CA speakpipes Right there. Leave me a message. I love hearing your voice and I will leave you a message back. Thanks for being here. So here at the how to podcast series, we love to hear from you. You might think that we get a lot of feedback, man. We don't, we don't get a lot because people just feel like, why bother? Like why does Dave really care what I have to say? And I do, I actually do really care what you have to say. I, I love your input. I love hearing from you. And we've started a survey for our listening audience which includes you right here, right now. And I'd love, love, love for you to head over to HowToPodcast CA and you'll see our survey right there on our website and take a few minutes, come through, answer the thoughtful questions we're asking of you to make the show better. Not just for you, but for everyone. Your feedback is really going to help shape the show and I selfishly just want to hear from you. So if you're thinking Dave probably already knows what I think. I don't. I really don't. I'm not good at reading minds. My wife will confirm that completely. So I don't really know what you think of the show. I don't know if you like it, if you like how long the show is, how long the episodes are that Dave's doing. 365 episodes in a year. Oh my gosh. Like, I would love to hear from you and get your thoughts on this very show right here. So head over to HowToPodcast CA, click on our survey link. It's also in the show notes for every episode in the most recent episodes. And I'd love to hear from you. So as a listener of this hear very show, your feedback can make this show so much better. So much better. And I'm not drowning in emails and voice messages and speak pipes and buy me a coffees right now. So I'm putting the ask out to you right now as a listener of the show and you're still here, that you take a moment, head over to our website, click the link in the show notes for any episode and go to our survey and let us know your thoughts about this show, how it could be better and what you love and what you're like. Dave, can you stop doing this? That would be really helpful. Thanks for being here and being part of the how to podcast family. See you over at howtopodcast ca. Talk soon. Thanks for being here. Bye. Okay, you're still here. Great. This is the little bonus stuff we do at the end of the podcast so that you know we can have some time together. Everyone else is gone. So I'm doing this little bonus content started at episode 500 and here we are, like just chugging away here. So 141 episodes later, we're still doing this little bonus stuff. If you. Your first time finding this, you got a lot of stuff you missed, by the way, but you're still here. So you know about this. So well done. The question came into me through coaching call recently, says Dave. Personal. I was talking to said Dave. When I. When I'm rehearsing, going through my podcast before I hit record, I feel like it's not helping me. I still sound really robotic on the microphone when I'm reading my script on my show. So how do I sound less robotic? Even though I'm practicing, I'm practicing. I'm working on it. So here's the thing. When you sound robotic as you practice, you're going to sound robotic when you perform. That's how it works because you've. You've done it. So when you practice, if you live in a house with other people, they're right outside the door and you're like, I'm gonna talk quiet because I don't
- [30:13]
B
want them to hear me practice, right?
- [30:15]
A
You're just like super paranoid that everyone can hear you. So you, like, talk differently. You, you practice in your head and you never say it out loud. You. You practice and you're just repeating what you've rehearsed is what's happening. So practice before you go live or before you record, practice the way you want it to sound, not the way it's written. How do you want this to come across? Are you excited? Are you sad? Is it. Is there. Is there something that you're trying to portray emotionally through what you're going to be talking about? Then do that as well. When you practice, don't just read the words off a piece of paper or your screen. Practice how you're going to deliver it. It's a show and you want to connect with your audience. So practice the way you want it to be received, not just the content, but how you're going to deliver it. So if you sound robotic when you record, it's probably because you sound robotic when you rehearse and when you practice. So rehearse naturally. Rehearse it the way you want it to be received, and that's really going to help you. So practice, practice, practice. And if you want to just get on zoom and practice together, reach out to me at how to Podcast CA websites. There calendar is always there, ready for you. Love to help you anytime. Thanks for being here. Thanks for sticking around. See you on the next episode.