← The How To Podcast Series - Podcast Co-Hosts, Practical Podcast Tips, and Podcast Community
The How To Podcast Series - Podcast Co-Hosts, Practical Podcast Tips, and Podcast Community
E689 - Stop Interviewing Guests on Your Podcast, Do This Instead - Reimagine Your Guest as A Podcast Listener
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Okay, we're rolling. Hey, welcome back to the how to podcast series. It's Dave with you. Hope you're doing well. This podcast is now mobile friendly. Yes. You can take us with you wherever you go. Did you know that? Yeah. I travel well, I pack light, I don't take up a lot of room, but I love being with you. So wherever we're going today, you and I, thanks for bringing me along. I love it. I'll be your little passenger, princess. I'll do that. I will. I promise not to touch the radio. Okay. All right, let's go. This is great. We were talking today about something that I want you to stop doing immediately. Like, just full on, stop doing this. This needs to stop now. What is it? I want you to stop interviewing guests on your show. You're like, dave, I have an interview podcast. Every. Every episode's an interview. I have living the next chapter. It's all authors, all interviews, all the time. What are you telling me to do, Dave? What, am I stopping my show? No. Are we stopped interviewing altogether? Is this not a thing anymore as podcasting changed? Oh, my gosh, I can't keep up. No, I'm asking you to stop interviewing guests as strangers on your show. When you meet somebody, hit record, put it out there in the world and move on. Very transactional, very in the moment. I bring you on, ask you questions, post the episode, move on to the next person waiting in line, and just move my way down the path, Right? What if? What if? Let's just think of it in this context. What if that person who's signed up to be on your show comes on your screen or meet you in person and sit down together to record an episode, and instead of treating them like a stranger, like a guest to be interviewed on your show, you treated them differently, like, in a totally different way and saw them in a new light. Would you change your approach? Would you change the tone of your show, your curiosity of this person? Would you approach the conversation different if you stopped interviewing strangers as guests on your show? You might. And you know what? Your audience is going to tell the difference if you stop treating them like strangers in a transactional way and treat them in a new way. What could that new way be? So I help podcasters through howtopodcast, ca and through my overarching thing that I do called True Media Solutions. Now I've been doing true MediaSolutions CA as well, for now, over seven years. And when I sit down with podcasters and we talk podcasting, and specifically for people who are doing interviews that I want you to re. Imagine that person in front of you that's coming on your show as a guest and stop thinking of them as a stranger. I want you to reframe in your mind when you sit down with them and think of them in this way. The person I'm going to meet, the person I'm going to speak to on my show, is more than a guest. They're a listener of my show. They are part of my community. Why? Why is this framework better? It's better because when we think of our guest in the context of being a listener, there's a level of gratitude that we have. Whenever we meet somebody who says, I listen, I watch your show, there's this feeling of connection, there's a feeling of support, there's a feeling of curiosity and appreciation. All of these things happen in that moment because I'm now interacting with someone who knows about, has listened to, and maybe even loves my show. So when I meet somebody in that context, I'm. I'm thrilled to have time with them. And I. I'm so curious. I'm so excited. And it feels like an investment, not a transaction. That's the big difference. It feels like an investment that I have time with this person and they already know me, and I feel like it's my job to get to know them. So I'm going to show up differently for a community member than I'm going to show up for some random stranger who wants to come on my show. If you treat every guest, whether you know them or not, as a listener of your show, I think your content's going to connect better with them. As a guest, it's going to connect better with the listener because there's this built up in anticipation that something great's going to happen here because I'm talking to a member of my community now. How do I. How. How can I make this claim that a guest is a listener? I would say, for the most part, very few exceptions, the people that are coming on your show have some form of knowledge about you. I always encourage guests, as you listen to this and you are a guest on podcast that you do go listen to the podcast you're going to be a guest on. You do want to find out the tone of the show, kind of the. The quirks of the host. Maybe some go to questions they seem to ask everybody. You can kind of prepare in advance before you even come on camera or meet them in person that you already kind of know where this. This ship likes to Go you, you already know the destination. So listening to a show in advance is a great tip for any guest and I encourage all guests to do that. So in that moment, as I'm scoping out your show to see what you do and how you do it, I am now, wait for it, a listener by simply listening to your show in preparation for being a guest on your show and any podcast that I go on as a guest. And I love guesting, by the way, how to podcast ca I listen to your show and I've fallen in love with so many new podcasts by being a guest on shows that I may never have listened to before, had known of, had ever met the host, and meeting them and talking podcasting and talking about all my other podcasts that I do, I get this really great connection with a great human being. And my goal in life is to connect, connect and collect as many people as possible. That's my goal. And I'm working my way through the Internet, I'm working my way through all these countries, and it's exciting to do that. So for you, as a guest, listen to the shows you're going to be a guest on, which then makes you a listener of that podcast and you become a member of the community. So as the host of the show, anticipate your guest is going to do their homework. Very seldom have I ever interviewed anybody that has no idea who I am, has never listened to my show. People invest time when they want to show up well as a guest. So in that moment, right now, keeping that in mind, when that person comes on your screen, my encouragement for you is to treat them from right from that second. This is a listener of my podcast, this is a community member who is supporting me by being on my show and they know about my podcast and they have been listening. And if we approached every interaction with guests with that kind of thing in mind, would you not want to talk to one person at a time and encourage them to listen to your show? I would much rather have this approach of one on one time with a new listener, a new member of my community, and building a strong bond with them when they guest on my show, giving them a great experience when they walk away from this podcast interview, that there's a high likelihood they're going to stay with my show after their episode comes, goes live. They're going to stick around because they have such a great time and they've met the host of a show that they've now fallen in love with. I'd much rather do that than Pay some random person in my email to get me a hundred new listens, really, Because I am building this myself and I am building that connection with my guest now, listener myself. And that connection's strong. And, and that connection lasts long after those email people have disappeared and those fake downloads have come and gone. I'm building my community one person at a time and turning my, my focus from a guest interview to a community member conversation. But a totally different approach to podcasting and being an interviewer, something I think we should all lean into. And if you're hearing this, you're like, wait a minute, I've never thought of it in this context. Then that's why you're here. Let's, let's talk about this just a little bit more, kind of flesh out this idea, and hopefully I can convince you by the end of this episode that you might be thinking of your guests that completely in the wrong way. And maybe there's some improvement we can all do as hosts. Let's continue. If your guests are no longer strangers, but community members, I think you're going to do a lot of things differently as the host. How you prepare your questions, how you promote the episode. All of these things are going to be a little bit different because you're talking about somebody from your community, not some random stranger who sent you an email saying, I'd love to be a guest on your show. These are no longer one off conversations that come and go feel very, again, like I mentioned, transactional. This feels like something we do in podcasting. What if every guest was someone who already tuned in press play and actually genuinely was curious about your perspective as the host of the show? How would you change your tone, your questions, and the way that you show up when you treat your guest like a community member, I think it just gives you this completely different focus. So there's three things I want to touch on, kind of relate to this and kind of support this thought about turning your guests into a community member and thanking them in that context. The first is that we as podcast hosts, interviewing guests, now community members on our show is to start with our curiosity and not an interrogation as the host of the show. And I think interrogation, I think all the police movies, right, where they bring a person into a room, they have them in the corner, they give them a bottle of water or something, and they have this really bad cameras that look real grainy and they just like pepper them with questions and they block the door. You can't get past them, right? You're trapped in that room. That's how I feel. A lot of interviews sound like that's in my mind. When I hear podcasters interviewing strangers, it feels like an interrogation. It feels like they've got them trapped in a room and you're not getting out of here until I get through my checklist of questions. And it feels very cold, very stale, and very, I don't know, disconnected. Like, it doesn't feel like there's a bond between the host and the guest in the conversation. If the guest was a listener, you wouldn't lead with rigid questionnaire. You wouldn't read from your clipboard. You would talk to this person. You would acknowledge their humanity, and you'd speak to them like a real person. There'd be a level of compassion and admiration for them because they're a listener of your show. It just. Your mind changes and you see them completely different. You'd lead with curiosity and you'd ask things like, how can. How can our community support you instead of tell us where you to find your website? Like, it's just, how can we support you for. Thank you for being on the show. This is so great having you here as a community. Right? We love you having you here. What a great value you've brought to all of us. And as a member of our community, this is great. Thank you for being here. How can we support you? Like, what can we do as, as listeners to help you for being so kind? To be here with us is way better than where should we go to find you? Where's your website? How do we connect? Do you sign up for your newsletter? Very transactional. Right? And then let's flip over again as the guest. When I go on as. As a guest on a podcast, I kind of follow the Alex Sanfilippo model. Alex is the creator of Podmatch. Listen to the very first few minutes of any interview of Alex Sanfilippo on any podcast. He was on the show, and you're going to hear a man who shows up. He's done his homework, and he comes with praise as a community member, a listener of the show he's a guest on, and he brings out episodes that he admires. He from the past. Like, nothing like the most recent episode, which is easy. He brings out episodes from the past. It's like, oh, my episode, this number. I know you talked about this, and I really liked your thoughts on that. That really resonated with me. And it's like, as a host, you're just like, really? Like, what A different way as a. As a Guest to show up and be the representation of the audience. I love when I'm a guest on shows, and I will actually say to the host in the recording, before we talk about my website or my thing, I just want to. As a member of your listening community, I just want to thank you. Thank you for the value that you put out. I love your show. I love. I love all the things that you do. I love how you approach your podcast. I love how you edit your show. I love the topics of your podcast. I love how you talk to us. And I know that anybody else who listens to this show, I'm talking as a guest on someone else's podcast. If anybody else from your community had the opportunity to sit in my chair with you right now, they would just want to tell you how much we appreciate you as a podcaster. We. We as your community, love your show. See what a different feeling that is as the guest, as the host, when we acknowledge that we are now no longer strangers being interviewed on a podcast, we are community members and listeners of the show, It's a totally different experience. And the audience is like, wow, this is really great. I think we need to move our interviews away from strangers and into community members. I think it's going to be way better. So let's stop using interrogation as our method of interviewing and connecting with our guests, and let's focus on curiosity. This is a listener of my show, and I'm curious about them. Scrap the questions. Like, really, I really want to talk to you. Questions are great. We need to know where we're going, but oh, my gosh, like, this is a listener in front of me. I'm going to treat them differently. And then the second part is, we need to let the listeners help us shape the tone of the episode. I think this is really important. When you treat your guest like a listener, the tone of the conversation softens. You're more likely to pause and let them finish without talking over them. You're not so nervous as a host talking to a stranger. You're talking to a listener. Mentally. There's a switch that goes off inside of your head where you're like, I'm just gonna give them space. I'm not gonna speak over them. I'm not gonna be so quick to get to my next thing. I'm gonna relax. I'm talking to a listener. I'm not talking to a stranger. Going to learn from them. Instead of proving to them, I'm going to learn from my guest, and you're going to also speak More simply in your conversation as well, more clearly and more conversational. Everything kind of changes a little bit when you have this shift in your mindset for the person in front of you because you're imagining a real person listening along, not just a headshot for your website. This is a person who is going to go and talk about you to their friends and their family and talk about a great way to get your guests to promote the episode by giving them the best experience ever. They're a listener, remember that. I think we've become a little bit more hospitable when we look at our guest as a listener. Like hosting a party and having all your friends come over, you're gonna treat that differently than somebody who rings the doorbell and tries to sell you something on your doorstep. That's a stranger. It's more of an interruption. It's, I don't know, you. Compared to all of my friends coming over to celebrate and have fun together, there's something different. So your guest on your show is not a stranger selling you something on the front door, the front door of your house. This is somebody who loves you, cares about your show, and is thrilled to be a guest on a podcast they admire. Treat them that way. The third part here, I think, is we, as we treat our guests as listeners, as community members, it helps us to build some continuity in our podcast creation, not just content. This transactional nature of interviews, especially if you have an interview based podcast like my Living the Next Chapter podcast, where it's all interviews, every episode's an interview. You become like an assembly line. People are coming in, people are being interviewed, people are going out, people are coming in, being interviewed, going out. It's the same thing on repeat over and over and over and over again, becomes a machine. And you are building content in that moment. When we treat our guests as one off interviews, the relationship often ends when the episode goes live. That's it, we're done. And that always bothered me as an early podcaster is I've been the two of us, myself and my guests have invested our own personal time for. And we're not being paid to do this. I'm not being paid as the host, they're not being paid as the guest. And we are investing our own personal time, which is the thing that we, we can only use once, right? We, we don't get to get more time. We only have so much. So both of us have committed to say no to something else to do. This conversation, like if you frame it that way, think of the, your how much gratitude rises within you that this person would say no to everything else to spend time with you. Wow. You don't take, you don't take advantage of their time. You don't diminish their time. This is an investment. They're investing in your show by saying yes to coming on your podcast. So think of it in that context. That's a listener content, a listener focus context. That's not an, that's not a stranger who's bombarding you in your emails to be the perfect guest on your show. Don't treat them as one offs. If your guest is a listener of your show, you're not just booking a guest, you're welcoming a community member and having a conversation with somebody who listens to your show and finds value in what you do. Totally different mindset. That change right there is how is how you then rewrite your emails, how you follow up with people, how you engage with the people that you meet through your podcast after the interview. This is the part where I need more work, more effort, more focus. Because I'm doing a large amount of content, the amount of time that I have to do this properly suffers. For the most part. I have to be completely transparent because I wish I could do more working full time, caring for two grandchildren during the day, podcasting in the margins of life. I'm building content, putting it out there. I seldom promote on social, I seldom do an email newsletter. I have a substack which has been sitting dormant for a while now. I don't always get back to my guests right away because I am either sleeping during the day or working at night. My whole life is upside down as far as my schedule. And all I really can commit to is actually this right now. Recording an episode, getting it out there, and then I move on. I don't get to promote things the way I want to, and I know my show would be better if I did. Though don't follow my example of my lack of promotion as a good idea. If I had one show and only one show and I did it on a weekly basis instead of a daily basis like this podcast, I would have more time in my week to do things properly. So that's my challenge is I'd love to do this better. But after the interview, stay in connection with your listener, your guest, your listener just happens to be guesting on your show and leave them messages, connect with them, thank them for being a listener of the show and a guest in conversation, and follow up with them in the future when the episode goes live. Send them a message. If you like sending things in the mail, then send them a thank you card or a postcard. I don't know, something, do something kind for the people who invest in you. I think just focusing on them as a listener is going to really, really help you to have that better conversation and a depth of conversation and curiosity that you'll never get with it. A conversation with a stranger. So that's it. Just treat them like a listener, because they already are. So before you do your next interview as a host, I want you to picture your guest as a listener and I want you to think of these three things. First, what would that listener want to know? How would I speak so that they feel seen and not judged? It's not an interrogation. And how can I invite them into a long term conversation, not just a one time interview? Treat your guests like listeners and your listeners will feel the shift in the episode and your audience is going to lean in because it's going to be the best conversation they've ever heard for that guest on your show. Because they're not just a guest, they're a listener. And if you ever need a guest for your show and you want to talk podcasting, you talk about dad stuff, you want to talk about music, you want to talk about a variety of different things, reach out to me. HowToPodcast CA Calendar links right there. If you're ever stuck and you need a guest, I'd love to be a guest on your show and support you. Not just as an interview guest, but as a listener of your show. Happy to help. Take care. So here without a podcast series, we love to hear from you. You might think that we get a lot of feedback, man. We don't, we don't get a lot because people just feel like, why bother? Like, why does Dave really care what I have to say? And I do. I actually do really care what you have to say. I love your input. I love hearing from you. And we've started a survey for our listening audience which includes you right here, right now. And I'd love, love, love for you to head over to HowToPodcast CA and you'll see our survey right there on our website and take a few minutes. Come through, answer the thoughtful questions we're asking of you to make the show better. Not just for you, but for everyone. Your feedback is really going to help shape the show. And I selfishly just want to hear from you. So if you're thinking Dave probably already knows what I think, I don't, I really don't. I'm not good at reading minds. My wife will confirm that completely. So I don't really know what you think of the show. I don't know if you like it, if you like how long the show is, how long the episodes are that Dave's doing 365 episodes in a year. Oh my gosh. Like, I would love to hear from you and get your thoughts on this very show right here. So head over to howtopodcast ca click on our survey link. It's also in the show notes for every episode in the most recent episodes and I'd love to hear from you. So as a listener of this hear very show, your feedback can make this show so much better. So much better. And, and I'm not drowning in emails and voice messages and speak pipes and buy me a coffees right now. So I'm putting the ask out to you right now as a listener of the show and you're still here that you take a moment, head over to our website, click the link in the show notes for any episode and go to our survey and let us know your thoughts about this show, how it could be better and what you love and what you're like. Dave, can you stop doing this? That would be really helpful. Thanks for being here and being part of the how to Podcast family. See you over at howtopodcast Ca talk soon. Thanks for being here. Bye. You're still here. Great. Okay, now I do coaching for podcasters and we meet, we have coffee together virtually over the Internet and we talk about podcasting and we look at a variety of different things to help them with their show. One thing I want to talk about is the artwork for your episode. That's what you see on your phone or whatever that's attached to your episodes. This is the artwork for the show in general. You can have specific artwork for each individual episode if you wish, or have one image that's for everything. Your choice, depending on how much time you have. There's marginal upside to having artwork for each episode, but if you like that, great, that's fine. But you're the main artwork for your show when you're, when you are the face of the show, when the show is around you, having a picture of you that's tiny, tiny, tiny. It's very hard to see that if the show is built around you and you are the brand, then having you on this, on the image bigger would help. So remember, look at your thumb right now and imagine your artwork the size of your thumbnail. Right? It's actually your thumbnail, like your physical nail on your thumb, that size. Now imagine your image of you being like, I don't know, a tiny little piece of that. Is that going to stand out against all of the other artwork? What I give you as homework when you work with me is I tell you to go find. Go find, like, three or four artwork examples that you love. Color, font, image, whatever. We'll find, like, three or four things you just love, and then find a few that you're just like, I don't like this. And then come back to me. And we're going to review why you like and don't like these and talk about your connection with it. Your reaction to these, to the artwork for other shows, whether you know the show or not. Big shows, small shows, doesn't matter. What stands out to you? What do you love? What do you not like? And then we take what your preference, your. Your idea, and we match it to creating your artwork. One other piece, too would be if you have a website. And let's say your website colors are for me, black, yellow, and white. Those are my three. It's how to podcast logo that you see for the artwork for this episode. Those are my colors. So my website reflects that. I don't have pinks and pastels and yellow and light yellows and orange. None of those things are my colors. I want you to come to my podcast and wherever you're listening to me right now, I appreciate it. I want you to see what's on the screen and then go to my website and have a. Have an experience there that matches what you see on your phone right now. I want there to be a connection between the two, not disconnected where you're like this. I don't know if I'm on the right website. This doesn't look like the show on my phone. I want it to all match. And I was working with a podcaster recently, and they had a completely different color palette for their podcast than they had from their website. Their website's amazing. Really well done, like, beautiful. And when we came to the artwork, it looked like it was like, from the 70s. And I'm like, why are these disconnected? Why are they so different? And they said they were told by a guru that this is how it should be. I'm just like, oh, oh, boy. There's such a big opportunity there. So if you want to talk about your artwork and you want to do something, a refresh maybe of that, you can change this anytime. You really can. It's not like it's just set in stone, and you can never touch it if you've had feedback about your artwork or you want to get feedback about your artwork, your website, all of that stuff. Love helping people in podcasting. It's what I like to do. It lights me up to have time with people like you. So reach out to me. HowtoPodcast CA let's have a virtual coffee and we'll. We'll walk through this together and land on something that you think is best for you, not what I think is best for you. What you think is best for you. Howtopodcast ca See you tomorrow.