The Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey

Episode 1353 (Oct 28, 2025):

Biohacking Cannabis: The DNA Science of Plant Medicine
Guest: Len Mei, CEO of Endo DNA

📌 Episode Theme & Purpose

Dave Asprey explores how genetic testing can personalize the use of cannabis and other plant medicines for health optimization. Len Mei, CEO of Endo DNA, shares cutting-edge insights about the endocannabinoid system, individual genetic differences, and how precision biohacking can mitigate risk and boost benefit in cannabis, psychedelics, and pharmaceuticals.

🧬 Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Genetics, Metabolism & Personalized Medicine

• Obesity and Genes
  • Some individuals are genetically predisposed to poor carbohydrate metabolism, leading to challenges with weight ([00:02]).
  • “There are people that are fat because they're predisposed to being poor, metabolizers of carbohydrates and other things.” – Len Mei ([00:02])
• Biohacking & Precision Health
  • The intersection of DNA testing and plant medicine aims to minimize adverse reactions and maximize personal benefits.

2. The Endocannabinoid System & Cannabis Responsiveness

• Beyond THC
  • Cannabis's effects are not just about THC—over 1,100 compounds and especially the function of your own endocannabinoid system matter ([05:13]).
  • “If your endocannabinoid system is functioning the way it's supposed to, you're good. But if it's not, then… you can get plant medicine and subsidize where you're naturally deficient.” – Len Mei ([05:27])
• Genetic Variants and Adverse Effects
  • Example: The FAAH gene, which breaks down anandamide. Variants can mean higher stress responses, longer cortisol persistence ([06:33]-[08:20]).
• Memory & Stress Patterns
  • Both discuss pattern-matching, memory “movies,” and how stress, neurochemistry, and ADHD influence processing ([09:35]).

3. Cannabis Delivery Methods & Dosing

• Terpenes Matter
  • Success and side effects depend not only on cannabinoids but terpenes (essential oils in the plant) ([10:18]).
• Mode of Consumption
  • Smoking degrades terpenes; sublingual oils are preferred for efficacy and consistency
  • “I believe sublingually is the best way to take it. That way you bypass your liver.” – Len Mei ([13:06])
  • Liver metabolism transforms THC into more psychoactive forms when ingested ([13:10]-[13:14])

4. Cannabis, Brain Health & Clinical Evidence

• Conflicting Data
  • While some experts (e.g., Dr. Daniel Amen) caution that cannabis can damage the brain, Len points to their published studies showing dose and match to personal genetics are crucial ([11:57]).
  • “If you find the right dose of the right neurochemicals or the right phytocannabinoids [for] you, then it works... If you're not, then your body's gonna tell you... you have those adverse events.” – Len Mei ([11:57])

5. Psychedelics and Adverse Events – Can DNA Testing Help?

• Genetic Screening for Safety
  • Endo DNA screens for predispositions to adverse effects from ibogaine, LSD, ketamine, MDMA, psilocybin ([18:14])
  • “If you have genetic predispositions and you're taking too much, it can trigger those adverse effects.” – Len Mei ([18:18])

6. Beyond Cannabis—Genetic Testing for Broader Health

• Whole Genome Analysis
  • Endo DNA now offers whole human genome testing. Personalized protocols for menopause, nutrition, and medication response ([20:10]-[21:00]).
  • Large Language Models (LLMs) interpret results for tailored plans.
• Pharmacogenomics
  • Tailoring prescription drugs to individual genetic makeup, e.g., avoiding antidepressant side effects like suicidal ideation ([24:52]-[26:49])
  • “He suffered all the side effects, which is suicidal thoughts… The drug that he was prescribed was red [‘do not prescribe’] on his genome.” – Len Mei ([24:52])

7. Biohacking, Functional Medicine & Data Integrity

• Testing and Measurement Matter
  • Genetic test quality: every Endo DNA report is linked to a peer-reviewed, PubMed-level study ([22:18]).
  • Personalized treatment is iterative—"test, do, test again" ([23:36])
• Practical Diagnostics
  • Simple misinterpretations (e.g., high glucose at the doctor’s due to stress) reinforce the need for context-aware analysis ([24:32]-[25:07])

8. Real-Life Impact of Precision Cannabis

• Anecdotes
  • Nonverbal autistic girl spoke and made eye contact after a genetic-based cannabis formulation ([28:12])
  • Woman with depression regained function and engagement after personalized intervention ([29:26])

9. The Ethics of Medical Tools

• Against Moralizing Substances
  • “There is no moral judgment on any of these. If you find yourself getting, ‘oh, my God, I can't believe Dave's promoting cannabis.' I'm not. I'm promoting the right tool for you...” – Dave Asprey ([30:37])

10. Industry and Regulation

• Big Pharma & Big Tobacco
  • Both are investing in cannabis, but consistency and pharmaceutical-grade validation are necessary for real healthcare integration and safety ([32:00]-[33:24]).
  • “We need that pharmaceutical oversight or some sort of oversight to make sure our testing's on point. And so I can get the same supplement in every single state...” – Len Mei ([33:07])

11. Further Examples: Obesity, GLP-1 Agonists, Alzheimer's, and Biome Testing

• GLP-1 Genetic Sensitivities
  • Genes affect metabolism of GLP-1 drugs—relevant to weight loss and longevity ([38:45]-[39:57])
  • Importance of dosing and combining medication with protein, minerals, and exercise ([38:15])
• Alzheimer's, Genes, and Trials
  • Study of galectin-3 inhibitors (TB006)—genetic variation (e.g., APOE4, rs4644) determines who benefits ([41:16])
• Microbiome & Food Sensitivities
  • Combining microbiome (e.g., Viome tests) and genetics gives more precise dietary advice ([43:31]-[44:19])

💬 Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Neurodiversity
  • “ADD... I really found it to be an advantage.” – Len Mei ([03:48])
  • “It’s kind of a superpower because you can’t make us pay attention to stupid shit.” – Dave Asprey ([03:59])
• On Personalization
  • “Defining your [cannabinoid/terpene] ratio is where your secret sauce is... doing your genetic test that way.” – Len Mei ([05:27])
• On Type & Delivery:
  • “Vapes are generally bad for you anyway.” – Dave Asprey ([10:53])
  • “I agree.” – Len Mei ([10:55])
• On Pharmacogenomics:
  • “It should be standard of care [to test genetics before prescribing antidepressants].” – Dave Asprey ([26:49])
• On Over-Moralizing Medicine:
  • “There is no moral anything about a shovel or a gun or a statin… it’s how you use it and where you aim it.” – Dave Asprey ([27:22])
• On Information-Driven Living:
  • “I never understood why people... don't want to find out as much as they can about themselves... Do every single test possible so you can learn.” – Len Mei ([46:10])
• On Saving Lives:
  • “That episode saved 25 lives... 13 people had late stage cancer that they could treat. The other ones had aneurysms...” – Dave Asprey ([46:56])

⏲️ Timestamps for Important Segments

• Intro to Genetics & Cannabis: [00:00]-[05:40]
• Explaining the Endocannabinoid System: [06:29]-[09:35]
• Memory, Stress, and Neurodiversity: [09:35]-[10:09]
• Cannabis for Neurodivergent Brains: [10:10]-[11:57]
• Cannabis Dosage, Delivery, and Terpene Science: [13:06]-[13:56]
• Genetics & Psychedelic Safety: [18:14]-[19:34]
• Whole Genome Testing & Menopause: [20:05]-[21:40]
• Testing Standards & Biohacking Methodology: [21:40]-[24:39]
• Pharmacogenomics in Action: [24:52]-[26:49]
• Stories of Personalized Cannabis Success: [28:12]-[29:45]
• Industry, Consistency, and Regulation: [32:00]-[33:24]
• Obesity, GLP-1 Agonists, and Metabolizer Genetics: [37:04]-[39:57]
• Alzheimer’s Drug Trial & Genetic Targeting: [41:16]-[41:53]
• Microbiome and Dietary Genetics: [43:31]-[44:19]

📝 Summary Takeaways

• Not all cannabis or plant medicine is equal; genetic differences drastically shape risk and response.
• Modern precision medicine and AI can help identify the safest and most effective plant or pharmaceutical for you.
• Rigorous, peer-reviewed science is essential for genetic test validity.
• Anecdotes and clinical cases show that DNA-informed protocols can radically change quality of life, especially in neurology and mental health.
• Consistency, quality control, and standardized regulation are the key bottlenecks for plant medicines.
• Empowerment comes from information—personalized data removes guesswork and moral angst from powerful health tools.

Resources Mentioned:

• endodna.com (Code: LEN25 for $25 off)
• Viome for microbiome testing
• daveasprey.com/GLP for GLP-1 protocols

Suitably detailed for those who haven’t listened—revealing the episode’s clear, informed, and data-driven engagement with biohacking, cannabis science, and the promise of genomics in future health and medicine.