The 12 Greatest Mood Boosters on Earth : 1397

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Human Upgrade: Biohacking for Longevity & Performance
Host: Dave Asprey
Guest: Lucas Aoun (Biohacker, host of "Boost Your Biology")
Episode: The 12 Greatest Mood Boosters on Earth : Ep. 1397
Date: January 13, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Human Upgrade, hosted by biohacking pioneer Dave Asprey, explores the most effective mood-boosting and performance-enhancing compounds, practices, and protocols that modern science and advanced biohacking have uncovered. Joined by Lucas Aoun, a leading biohacker previously based in Australia and now in Dubai, the conversation ranges from dopamine and testosterone optimization to the experimental boundaries of peptides, nootropics, and lifestyle interventions. The tone is open, experimental, and deeply nerdy—with both host and guest sharing their lived experiences, practical advice, and philosophical perspectives on self-experimentation and human enhancement.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dopamine Optimization: Sensitivity vs. Stimulation

Timestamps: [04:18] – [08:15]

• Objective: Amplify dopamine receptor sensitivity instead of relying solely on stimulants (like Adderall) to avoid addiction and tolerance.
  • Compounds Discussed:
    • Solbutiamine – a fat-soluble B1 vitamin crossing the BBB; can upregulate dopamine.
      • Dave: "I take it for sleep." ([05:57])
    • Microdosing amphetamines – increases dopamine receptor supersensitivity (mostly in animal studies).
      • Lucas: "It actually led to dopamine receptor super sensitivity." ([06:30])
    • Lithium orotate – regular low doses are neuroprotective, may boost resilience to stress, help with sleep and memory.
      • Dave: "Lithium orotate has been a standard part of my recommendations for longevity." ([08:27])
    • Tylenol (acetaminophen) can blunt emotional pain, though Dave warns about liver and always pairs with glutathione.

Quote:
"My ultimate goal has always been: how do I actually upregulate dopamine receptors?"
– Lucas ([04:53])

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2. Emotional Self-Regulation, Suffering, and Experimentation

Timestamps: [11:35] – [14:54]

• Emotional suffering has a role, but it's not always noble to avoid all tools—biohacking protocols can empower self-awareness and resilience.
• Customized "stacks" for events (public speaking, first dates) are valid strategies.
• Dave emphasizes avoiding numbing out—using compounds should be about learning and improvement, not escaping the lesson suffering offers.
• Both hosts endorse logging experiments and subjective tracking ("the body is like a computer").
• The shamanic perspective: Modern compounds vs. traditional plant medicine feel different—no innate "spirit" in synthetics, but both have lessons.

Quote:
"You suffer until you get the lesson...but if you’re about to get PTSD and overwhelmed, you might want a faster path."
– Dave ([12:48])

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3. Unique and Underappreciated Dopaminergic Interventions

Timestamps: [18:05] – [20:31]

• Thunbergia laurifolia (Trumpet Vine): Traditional Thai herb that can trigger dopamine release at amphetamine levels without addictive risks.
  • Lucas: "This particular herb can actually release dopamine in the nucleus accumbens to the same level as amphetamines without the addictive potential." ([18:41])
• Other tools: intermittent stressors (sauna), uridine, personalized nootropic stacks, experimentation protocols.

Note: Individual neurobiology matters—what works for one may not work for another. Both hosts believe in trying things in isolation for at least 2 days (Dave) to 2 weeks (Lucas).

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4. Nootropics, Mood, and Sex: New Discoveries

Timestamps: [24:34] – [26:33]

• Sarcosine: A glycine reuptake inhibitor, nonhabit-forming, can support neuroprotection, glutamate modulation, and (potentially) anhedonia (lack of pleasure).
  • Lucas: "Helping [with] better orgasms, pretty much, yeah." ([25:19])
• Other fast-acting antidepressants include saffron, experimental drugs (TAC-653/AMPA receptor modulators), cordyceps alkaloids, and ketamine analogs.

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5. Testosterone, Hormone Optimization, & Misconceptions

Timestamps: [31:13] – [41:22]

• Myths abound: Testosterone supplementation does not inherently reduce fertility when properly managed.
  • Dave: "A low testosterone man is also going to be infertile... If your testosterone is lower than your mom’s, there’s nothing wrong with testosterone." ([32:46])
• Government and media misinformation are rampant (example: playground shutdown in Australia for "raising testosterone").
• FDA has reversed decades-old warnings on hormone replacement therapy—both men and women benefit when properly dosed.
• Natural optimization: heavy lifting, HIIT, organ meats, boron, tongkat ali, D. Agrestis, microdosed enclomiphene.
• Peptide/enhancement stacks (MK-677, etc.) discussed for edge cases and optimizing deep sleep, GH, and more.

Quote:
"Low testosterone is terrifying. And testosterone poisoning, you’re not going to do this with regular testosterone."
– Dave ([37:38])

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6. Growth Hormone, Peptides, and Appetite

Timestamps: [42:01] – [49:08]

• MK-677: A growth hormone secretagogue, not a SARM; boosts GH and IGF-1 but can cause strong hunger.
• Growth hormone supplementation can (contrary to myth) rekindle endogenous production after short-term therapy.
• Peptide stacks (CJC/Ipamorelin) are tools for advanced biohackers.
• Appetite, body composition, and carb tolerance experiments discussed; Dave has exceptional metabolic flexibility post-years of biohacking.

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7. Deep Self-Experimentation (Thyroid, TUDCA, Liver Health & Beyond)

Timestamps: [52:00] – [57:27]

• Thyroid management: addressing reverse T3, T3/T4 conversion, Hashimoto's, and the impact of low-carb/carnivore diets.
• SHBG elevation on certain diets can dampen free hormone availability—remedied by liver support (TUDCA) and ECGC.
• TUDCA (liver supplement) considered foundational for modern humans due to chemical load—suggested daily dosing 500–1000mg.

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8. The Advanced Path: Custom Protocols, Self-Responsibility, and Caution

Timestamps: [57:27] – [71:14]

• Not everyone should try everything—start with thyroid and testosterone, then layer goals.
• Experimentation at the biochemical edge carries risks—some experiences (e.g., serotonin antagonists, too-high thyroid, etc.) can be disastrous.
• Always have a "control-Z" (undo) plan and consider having a knowledgeable friend or doctor to consult.
• Most powerful single levers per hosts: brain, thyroid, adrenals, hormones.

Quote:
"It’s kind of like finding the recipe for your body and for your state. And this is advanced biohacking we’re talking about."
– Dave ([56:37])

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9. Peptides & Next-Gen Compounds

Timestamps: [71:14] – [76:09]

• Di-leucine: 42% more anabolic than leucine; predicted to be in protein blends by 2026.
• ACE167: An oral peptide that upregulates steroidogenesis (cholesterol to pregnenolone), may boost LH sensitivity.
• Least favorite peptides: GHRP-6/GHRP-2 (“not as effective”), DSIP (“doesn’t do anything” for deep sleep).
• Brown algae ("Ecklonia cava") touted by both for enhancing deep sleep naturally.

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10. Ketamine, Psychedelics, and Mood Stacks

Timestamps: [59:04] – [66:11]

• Ketamine—fast-acting antidepressant, deeply dissociative at high dose; reveals that “you are not your body.”
  • Dave: "Low dose ketamine is it increases neuroplasticity better than almost any other compound." ([61:12])
  • Caution: Overdosing can empty neurotransmitter reserves and cause long anhedonia; recovers with certain amino acids.
• Ketamine stacks (theoretical): cordycepin (from cordyceps), sarcosine, and glycine for NMDA/AMPA receptor synergy.
• Ibogaine and more radical NMDA antagonists discussed at the experimental fringe.

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11. The Dangers and Protocols for Rescue

Timestamps: [66:11] – [70:08]

• Riskier experiments: 10-methoxyharmalan, serotonin antagonists—educational but potentially hazardous.
• Best practice: Always have a rescue protocol and a biohacking buddy (“control-Z button”).

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12. Final Recommendations & Philosophical Wrap-Up

Timestamps: [78:53] – [80:14]

• Don’t overwhelm yourself by stacking too many compounds without clarity—start with blood work, focus on single levers.
• It's a long game: Both Dave and Lucas have spent over a decade, or two, experimenting and refining these stacks.
• Lucas’ channel: “Boost Your Biology” on YouTube for more detailed protocols and experiments.

Quote:
"Start with thyroid and testosterone, because those are low hanging fruit. And then if you have another goal, go after that one and just do the goals one at a time. That’s how biohacking really works."
– Dave ([78:54])

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• [04:53 / Lucas]: "My ultimate goal has always been: how do I actually upregulate dopamine receptors?"
• [12:48 / Dave]: "You suffer until you get the lesson...but if you’re about to get PTSD and overwhelmed, you might want a faster path."
• [18:41 / Lucas]: "This particular herb [Thunbergia Laurifolia] can actually release dopamine in the nucleus accumbens to the same level as amphetamines without the addictive potential."
• [25:19 / Lucas & Dave]: "So better orgasms is what you’re saying? — Pretty much, yeah."
• [37:38 / Dave]: "Low testosterone is terrifying. And testosterone poisoning, you’re not going to do this with regular testosterone."
• [56:37 / Dave]: "It’s kind of like finding the recipe for your body and for your state. And this is advanced biohacking we’re talking about."
• [61:12 / Dave]: "Low dose ketamine... increases neuroplasticity better than almost any other compound."
• [78:54 / Dave]: "Start with thyroid and testosterone... do the goals one at a time. That’s how biohacking really works."

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Dopamine sensitivity, solbutiamine, amphetamines: [04:18] – [08:15]
• Lithium/Emotional blunting tools: [08:27] – [11:01]
• Philosophy of experimentation & lessons: [11:35] – [14:54]
• Thunbergia laurifolia (trumpet vine): [18:05] – [20:31]
• Sarcosine & mood/pleasure: [24:34] – [26:33]
• Testosterone, fertility, and TRT myths: [31:13] – [41:22]
• GH, MK-677, peptides: [42:01] – [49:08]
• Thyroid, TUDCA, SHBG, liver health: [52:00] – [57:27]
• Ketamine, neuroplasticity, and risks: [59:04] – [66:11]
• Caution & Rescue protocols: [66:11] – [70:08]
• Peptides, di-leucine, ACE167: [71:14] – [76:09]
• Final recommendations/philosophy: [78:53] – [80:14]

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Final Thoughts

This conversation is a masterclass in advanced biohacking: it underscores the power of rigorous self-experimentation and personalized, data-driven approaches to mood, performance, and longevity. Whether you’re just getting started or deep into the biohacking world, the episode delivers actionable science, philosophical context, and a refreshing, candid look at the real risks and rewards of pushing the limits of human potential.

Find more from Lucas:

• YouTube: Boost Your Biology

Host Contact:

• daveasprey.com

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(This summary skips podcast ads, generic intros/outros, and focuses on the actionable science, memorable exchanges, and the spirit of the conversation.)

Transcript

[A]

Back when I was in business school, I got a brain scan. Clearly something's wrong. Let's try Adderall. So I took a baby dose like 5mg and it did help me in class. But when I would come home, just agitation. Want to curl up in a dark room. It was horrible stuff.

[B]

If I could find a way to make myself more sensitive to dopamine agents or nootropics such as caffeine, nicotine, any other sort of stimulant, I can leverage them in a way I will never build addiction or tolerance potential. The craziest research I've ever come across is they're looking at what are the impacts of micro dosing amphetamines to up regulate dopamine receptors. It actually led to dopamine receptor super sensitivity. In Thailand, there's a particular herb that's called Thunbergia laurifolia. It's also known as the trumpet vine. This particular herb can actually release dopamine in the nucleus accumbens to the same level as amphetamines without the addictive potential. Honestly, I'm like, how has nobody caught onto this? You are going to dramatically improve your energy, your focus, your recovery, digestion, all the things that people complain about.

[A]

You're listening to the human upgrade with Dave Asprey.

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[A]

So, Lucas, you've been working on a liposomal microplastic delivery system to get microplastics into the body more quickly, right?

[B]

Yeah, exactly. There's a transdermal.

[A]

Hey, guys. Welcome to the show. I'm here with Lucas. Second time on the show, and we're in Dubai. Actually, we're in. Aren't we in the Burj Khalif Tower?

[B]

I think they share the same name building and the other building.

[A]

I don't know how that. Yeah, got it. So I'm in town to speak at a conference, and since you've moved here from Australia, I thought we'd sit down in person.

[B]

Yeah, man, I'm stoked to be back on. I think the first one was a great conversation.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Looking forward to it.

[A]

And if this is your first time hearing Lucas. Lucas is one of Australia's leading biohackers. I guess now we can say uae.

[B]

You could say so.

[A]

And I like his work because he's super nerdy. And that's a compliment. Like, you go deep. And we actually have a very similar way of thinking about things, which is helpful. And our job is to not get so lost in the details that people are like, what the heck are they talking about? So if you catch me getting too nerdy, you got to call me out and vice versa. Deal.

[B]

Yep. Done.

[A]

All right. I want to go to some specific questions based on your last interview and some new stuff. One of the areas of extreme interest for me has been dopamine for many, many years.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And I talk about things like the BICEP protocol to increase dopamine sensitivity in the brain, which is brief, intentional conscious exposure to pain. Right. So basically, that's the reason monks would whip themselves in yogi, lay on beds of nails, sort of things like that. But you're working with compounds that increase dopamine receptors. Why do you want to do that? And what are the compounds?

[B]

Yeah, so I became really fascinated with this whole idea of like dopamine upregulation because I realized if I could find a way to make myself more sensitive to dopaminergic agents or nootropics such as caffeine, nicotine, any other sort of stimulant, then what I can do is I can leverage them and use them in a way that I won't ever lose, like the I will never build addiction or tolerance potential. So my ultimate goal has always been like, how do I actually upregulate dopamine receptors? And so I came across some pretty cool research on a bunch of different nootropics and compounds. One of them is actually part of the. The vitamin B1 family. It's actually one that I think you've also spoken about many, many years ago. Solbutamine.

[A]

Yes. It's one of the rare B1 forms. Like benfotiamine is another one.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Like a fat soluble version. So crosses the blood brain barrier. And there is preliminary research suggesting that it can actually upregulate dopamine.

[A]

I take it for sleep.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In a pretty high dose or.

[A]

Yeah, relatively high dose.

[B]

Yeah. I think there's also that there's a pretty interesting paradox when we're talking about dosages. This is probably like, probably the craziest research I've ever come across is like they're looking at what are the impacts of microdosing amphetamines to upregulate dopamine receptors. And what they've found in I'm pretty sure is like rhesus monkeys.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They looked at if they administered very.

[A]

Like methamphetamine or just regular amphetamine. Just amphetamine. Adderall.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, like Adderall. It actually led to dopamine receptor super sensitivity.

[A]

That makes sense, doesn't it? We do low dose naltrexone. Microdosing of pharmaceuticals has a completely different effect than the large doses. In fact, I used about six pharmaceuticals in my longevity practice where I wouldn't want to take the full dose, but a small dose does something different. Even retatrutide, you know, the GLP1s. Low dose does something different than high dose. Okay. Amphetamines at low doses or micro doses to make yourself have better dopamine receptors. Have you tried it?

[B]

Personally, I'm a little bit cautious because the drawbacks associated with, like, super upregulation is that you could end up becoming, like, hypersensitive to dopamine as a stimulus.

[A]

Yeah, like, kind of. It could be maybe a little manic or something.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. So I think some guys out there have accidentally, like, they've accidentally induced this effect without even realizing. Like, they're being cautious. Maybe they've been prescribed, like, Adderall or. And they've been like, oh, I'll just try a little baby dose.

[A]

You know, that might have been what happened to me, because, man, back when I was in business school, it was 20 something years ago, and I got a brain scan from Dr. Daniel Amen, the psychiatrist who did that. It's like, okay, clearly something's wrong. Let's try Adderall. Like, I don't really want to. So I took a baby dose, like 5 milligrams, if I remember right. And it did help me in class, but when I would come home, like, no one touched me, and, like, I just want to curl. Just agitation. Just, like, want to curl up in a dark room. It was horrible stuff.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. There could be something there. Like, was it 5 milligrams you tried?

[A]

I think so, yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I would even take half of that sometimes because it was just too much. So not a fan of amphetamine Modafinil. That's a different story. I like that stuff.

[B]

But, yeah, so. So between, like, the microdosing amphetamines, the solbutiamine, there's a few other compounds out there. I mean, we spoke about microdosing lithium. I think you've seen some research on that as well.

[A]

Yeah. Lithium orotate has been a standard part of my recommendations for longevity. And research just came out about lithium showing that it has a meaningful reduction in Alzheimer's. So I think for most people here, 100 to 300. Was it micrograms or milligrams? Yeah, yeah, micrograms of orotate. It's probably a good idea. And one doctor who's been on the show, Dr. Sandy Kaufman, who's an amazing doctor, and she actually uses lithium carbonate, which is the. The stuff they give it. Psych, psychiatry things. She says we'll just take a smaller dose of it, but it's more effective than orotate. So what's the deal with lithium from your perspective?

[B]

Yeah, I see lithium as a versatile, like, mineral nutrient. I think most people can benefit from baby doses, like, chronically because, you know, if you look at the literature, it's protective against many types of neurodegenerative diseases.

[A]

Every night yeah, why not?

[B]

Some people have noticed improvements in REM sleep when they're using lithium. That's at least what I've seen in amongst the biohackers that I work with. Like, they're saying that it's improved their REM sleep. Others have reported improvements in, like, just general memory performance. But in terms of. I think there's all this paranoia about, like, kidney damage and all that, but that's really. With the lithium carbonate at high dosages, you know.

[A]

Yeah. There's a lot of paranoia from substances what gave rats half their body weight and saw this problem. It's not relevant. It just isn't. But there's another use of lithium that I think is worth noting. So if you're going through a lot of emotional stress, say a divorce, a narcissist attack, something that's really, really wrecking you emotionally, you can take a little extra lithium orotate, and at the right dose, it has an emotional blunting effect so things don't land as hard as they normally would. And then strangely. And this comes from Dr. Daniel Amen, who's a dear friend on his board. And just, like, he's one of the guys who really helped me figure out I had a hardware problem. So I'm forever grateful. He says there's really good research that Tylenol will. This is totally weird. It will work as well on emotional pain as it does on physical pain.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

So I'm not a fan of Tylenol unless you're taking large doses of glutathione to protect your liver.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But. Okay, so if. If I was, like, really dealing with the weight of the world on my shoulders. If you read my last book, I kind of have. I didn't do either of these techniques, but I would have. If I thought about it, I might. I might have considered some Tylenol, but I would have taken large doses of glutathione to protect my liver, to offset.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then I would have taken more lithium so that I could just not be as reactive. And I tend to not be that reactive because of all the 40 years of Zen stuff. But, you know, when you're dealing with losing your company, getting divorced, and having a family member try to steal another company pretty much all the same time. Yeah, that was a lot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But so that I'm not recommending people numb themselves. You do get to control your reactivity and dealing with just chronic pain. We know the body locks up. That's why painkillers are helpful. So what's the relationship between pain and dopamine.

[B]

Yeah. I think there's an interesting sort of link between the two. And what I like about everything that you've pioneered so far is like, you're basically enabling people to believe and understand that you can take control of your brain. And I remember you saying something like, how can we modify and manipulate our baseline brain? And so, like, that's where a lot of these compounds can actually come in, tweak the brain. And I picture the brain as, like, I literally picture it as like play doh, where you're like, molding it in a certain direction that you want for certain occasions. Like last time we sort of mentioned public speaking or like, you know, a first date stack. Like, these are the things that I think we have access to the tools. Like, why not use them, you know, to better ourselves, not only in work, but also like in different events and things in our lives.

[A]

It feels like that might be cheating and that some people believe that they should just suffer and struggle a lot. What's your take on that?

[B]

I already. I already wrestled with this in my own head. When I first got into biohacking, which, you know, back at high school, I was testing out different supplements and I also asked myself that question. I'm like, is this, like, is this cheating or am I just leveraging the tools in my environment?

[A]

Yeah, it's a tough call because suffering has a very meaningful role. And I firmly believe that you suffer until you get the lesson right. So if the suffering is there, especially if it's like an emotional thing you're going through, you might want to do the deep inner work. But if you're about to get PTSD and overwhelmed, you might not want to do that and still do the inner work. And I have no problem with a faster path. But what I don't want to do is miss the lesson, which is why you wouldn't want to take a bunch of opiates and just numb yourself out. But I think there's. The lesson may just be that I'm more in control of my state than. Than I thought. And if I can maybe not be quite as reactive, then I can actually see my role in something that happened. Right. And become more self aware because you're not just tweaked. So I think this is the right path. But I mean, I'm sure some people disagree. What do you think is the right path?

[B]

I'm a big believer in Dave. Like, I'm such a big fan of like, logging experiments and also just tracking how I feel. Like, I do see the Body quite a lot like a computer. And some people will say like, you're a bit autistic with that. But I'm like, you know what I mean? If I can perform at my best in any situation, I feel like I've got. You feel empowered, right? Like you feel like every time there's a quote, I'm sure you've heard it. It's like every time a man makes an experiment, he can only learn more, he cannot learn less. And I really abide by that principle because like, the thing is with these supplements and these compounds is it's one thing to see what they do in the literature, but then it's another thing to actually subjectively experiment and see how your body reacts. Because, like, I know you're a big fan of modafinil and we can talk about some unique alkaloids that I've uncovered that I think is worth exploring. But I think this whole premise of experimenting, the best way we can get a feel for things is subjective experience. Like subject your body to the substance and let the substance teach you what it's got to teach you.

[A]

You're starting to sound like a shaman.

[B]

There, like a modern day.

[A]

I mean, they will tell you that you know, each substance, although it's usually a plant, you know, has a lesson for you. My experience on the shamanic side of things is that chemical compounds usually don't have a consciousness to them.

[B]

The spiritual element, you mean you can.

[A]

Have a spiritual experience on a compound, but the compound isn't trying to itself impart information to you? Right, I get it. Like the difference between DMT and Ayahuasca is that ayahuasca has an agenda and DMT opens doors. Right, so again, that's less neuroscience and more spiritual perception.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I like that. In terms of the, like, being able to experiment and manipulate the brain is just something that I've always been fascinated by and just always uncovering. Like what are the unique compounds and alkaloids that are found within different mushrooms or different herbal extracts?

[C]

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[B]

On the, on the dopamine subject, if you go to Thailand, this is pretty crazy, man. So in Thailand, there's a particular herb that's called Thunbergia laurifolia. It's also known as the trumpet. The trumpet vine.

[A]

Yeah. Trumpet vine. Okay.

[B]

And there's quite a lot of research which I don't know how it hasn't been picked up in the Western world, like in the US or Australia, whatever. No one has identified or actually made use of this research. But if you go on PubMed and you type in the name of this herb and you type in Thunbergia laurifolia.

[A]

Or trumpet vine, so you can find it.

[B]

And then you put next to it amphetamine or, and, or dopamine. There's a few clinical studies that come up and they're looking at how Thunbergia laurifolia, this particular herb, can actually release dopamine in the nucleus accumbens to the same level as amphetamines without the addictive potential.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Which, honestly, I'm like, how has nobody.

[A]

Caught onto This, I tried some of that years and years ago. I came across some paper. I tend to try all the weird herbs. Maybe I didn't dose it right, or.

[B]

Maybe I was it in a tea format.

[A]

It was a tincture.

[B]

A tincture?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You sure it wasn't spikenard or some other weird herb?

[A]

We're talking like 10 years ago?

[B]

Yeah. Okay.

[A]

No idea. But I do remember trumpet fine going. This, this looks interesting, but I didn't go as deep as you did, so.

[B]

Yeah, I'm really excited to see whether or not we can extract some of the actual active constituents and then pull that out and then actually.

[A]

Wow. So. But you've tried the tea made out of it.

[B]

I tried the tea, but I didn't notice a huge effect. Like, it was. It was mild, but it was just like. It just felt like a coffee. It wasn't. It wasn't actually like overly stimulating.

[A]

So what else can we do that's going to increase dopamine receptor density?

[B]

I mean, the, the standard things that I always recommend as, like, baselines are, you know, regular exercise, you know, any sort of stressor on the body, which is like, you know, hot exposure, sauna usage, things like that can actually help with dopamine upregulation. There's a few other compounds, I think last time we sort of mentioned uridine. I think uridine deserves a spot. It's consistently performing well, like in terms of it eliciting a, you know, favorable effect on cognition.

[A]

It's in a few nootropic stacks. And I've taken uridine separately. Just, I think, was it 500 milligrams is a normal dose?

[B]

Yeah. Or 250 probably.

[A]

Yeah. And I never felt it, but it looks like it should work. And one of the problems is that when you're on a stack that works so well, like my brain.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I've never had a brain like this. But if this is 25 years of nootropics and 6 months of 40 years of Zen and God knows all the other stuff. Oh, and stem cells after I open my blood brain barrier with focused ultrasound. So it's hard for anyone to say, well, it worked for me, it'll work for you. Because we have different neurochemistry, different ways of breaking down dopamine genetically. And this is one of the problems where, you know, a lot of people like, oh, I'm going to try this thing and if it works, great, but if it doesn't, it doesn't mean it's good or bad. It just means that Your neurochemistry and it aren't compatible. But in order to even figure this out, you need to find the recipe. And this is where it's hard. And this is where I can tell you've done a lot of thinking about this, because when I started biohacking, long, long time ago, like, I'm going to try every supplement for one month and see what. I'm going to be dead before I try them all. So I just started saying I'm going to do everything that might work and if it works great, I'll back off a little bit because I actually want the results and I don't care if I take an extra supplement. And so with nootropics, it's a bit iffy, like there's standard combinations. But then if you just take everything all at once and you don't Maybe work with ChatGPT to figure out which ones oppose each other, you're probably going to get a headache or throw up or not. Have a very good day. So I would say start kind of slow. Is that how you do it?

[B]

I'm the exact same. I think each compound deserves at least two weeks of individual, in isolation understanding and experimentation.

[A]

So that means, like, you're more hardcore. Like, two days for me.

[B]

Yeah. I'm pretty. I look at it in the, Like, I've got the. It's the long game. So I'm like, I'm. I've got two weeks to assess and evaluate.

[A]

All right.

[B]

What is L tyrosine going to do to my brain? What does creatine do to my brain?

[A]

What.

[B]

And not only the brain, but also, like, what are some of the outside of the original purpose for that substance? What are some of the X, the secondary, the third effects that it has on my biology that I was not expecting.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, for example, cordyceps mushroom in particular. That one there has an effect on me where it really does amp me up, similar to caffeine.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But it actually, like in social situations, I just fall to. I basically just, just fall to. Like, I'm. I'm too intense, I'm too serious, I can't relax. I can't just enjoy the night because I'm too stuck in my own head.

[A]

A friend who's a neurosurgeon said that when she tried cordyceps, she actually couldn't do the surgery. She said it made her handshake too much the first time she tried it. Yeah. So some people are very sensitive and other people not so much. So it's tough because the gifts of Nootropics and getting yourself dialed in are so profound, where you feel like you're a different person. You know, you can pay attention as long as you want to and you're not reactive the way you wear it and you can remember things and it is a beautiful thing.

[B]

Oh, it's amazing.

[A]

But you could also just say there's 50 compounds I could try and if I do two weeks each, that's two years of trial. And then I have to try combinatorials. And so I tend to think do some research and try a couple that are likely to work together to cut that time down.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. If you want to bypass that, you can obviously be strategic about like you can stack two together that you know are not going to interact.

[A]

Yeah. And there's also tried and true and tested formulas that work for most people, like quality of mind. Yeah. Use code, Dave. I'm pretty sure anyway. But I've been working with those guys for a long time and even then if you're taking that, there's probably some other things you want to add in there over time, like, oh, nicotine, microdosing of nicotine. You can buy this in Dubai, but you can't buy it in the US So I just bought some nice. What other nootropics that people haven't heard of are you experimenting with?

[B]

Yeah, so one of them is actually pretty well studied for acting as a glycine reuptake inhibitor. And it's called sarcosine.

[A]

Oh, you know about sarcosine? Yeah, yeah, I've been taking that for years.

[B]

Yeah. So sarcosine, I think, has a lot of beneficial effects in terms of, you know, it's non habit forming, it's neuroprotective, it works on the, the AMPA receptors. So it's modulating glutamate in a, in a way that's favorable. It has some interesting research on like anhedonia as well.

[A]

So anhedonia is inability to experience joy or pleasure.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you're saying that it causes that or it prevents it?

[B]

No, there's some positive research in that regard. So helping.

[A]

So better orgasms is what you're saying?

[B]

Pretty much, yeah.

[A]

Has that been your experience?

[B]

I've just.

[A]

You don't have to answer that.

[B]

Sarcosine's, I think it's a unique compound in terms of, you know, its mechanism of action, the bioavailability. So I think sarcosine is an interesting one and then we've got a bunch of other ones. So sort of the, the pathways that I'm interested In are like the fast acting antidepressants that are non SSRI based.

[A]

So things like saffron or something else.

[B]

Saffron. There's one that's called Tac 653, which is A.

[A]

Is that an herb or is that a peptide?

[B]

It's a synthetic. It's actually developed by TAC Pharmaceuticals.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It is a pharmaceutical drug, but it never made it to actual market. You know how like a lot of these drugs, they make it to like.

[A]

Phase two, phase three, they work fine and then someone doesn't pay for something.

[B]

There you go. Yeah, it's a funding, funding issue. But that one there is interesting because it's an AMPA receptor potentiator. So it's working on the, the same pathway that ketamine hits that I was talking about before. We know that ketamine hits the, you know, the glutamate receptors and that can immediately shock someone out of a depressive state. And you know, glutamate receptors are the most excitatory sort of neurotransmitter systems as well.

[A]

That's why MSG just wrecks so many people.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. MSG can lead to like headaches and brain fog and just feels terrible.

[A]

I got some a couple nights ago here at a restaurant and I rarely eat stuff that was msg. But man, I was like that night I. I have like supplements I put together before I go to bed and I would just zone out when I'm halfway through like opening a bag. And I was like, where was I? And then my sleep was crap and I woke up the next morning just a zombie.

[B]

Really? What sort of cuisine? Like what sort of food was this.

[A]

Like an Asian cuisine?

[B]

Asian cuisine?

[A]

Yeah. But I'm like, I'll just eat the steak. But then I ate some dumplings and it was probably in there, but.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Man.

[B]

How long does it wipe you out for? Because like for me something like that can knock me out for like two to three days.

[A]

It used to be a two to three day time, an MSG exposure and that's why I laugh here. Like MSG doesn't do anything like, like it actually does. And some people are less sensitive and some people have no self awareness or some people are so addled all the time they wouldn't notice because you eat Doritos every day. But if you peel all that back. Yeah. If you're used to performing really well, it was a couple days. But with the stacks that I have now, I'm usually okay within four to five hours.

[B]

Geez, that's Pretty good.

[A]

But it requires sugar and espresso and every mitochondrial stimulator there is, the truedark, sleep glasses and a laser. And if I do that, I'm good.

[B]

With the sugar subject. I mean, did you ever go through a phase where you were, like, deliberately seeing how much sugar or carbohydrates your body could tolerate to a point where you could, like. Did you ever go through a phase like that at all?

[A]

You're talking about with a blood glucose.

[B]

Meter or just, like, seeing how you feel, how you respond to, like, high sugar intake?

[A]

You know, it's. It changes a lot. When I was younger, sugar was absolutely. It would tweak me. Sugar doesn't do much to me anymore. One of my goals on this trip to Dubai is to treat my gluten deficiency syndrome. It turns out that the wheat here is European wheat, and it's a different species. And it's not poisoned the way wheat is in the US And I'm very sensitive to wheat in the US if there's a little bit in there, it messes with my gut and my head. I don't know if it's the glyphosate, what it is, but I can tolerate it. Here, I take some enzymes, and it's not good for me, but whatever. So so far, in the four days I've been here, I met about two and a half pounds of baklava.

[B]

So. Nice.

[A]

So I'm like, how much of this can I actually eat?

[B]

Jeez. And you're tolerating it pretty. Pretty okay.

[A]

I'm fine. Yeah, Right. I'm not wearing a glucose monitor.

[B]

The other thing that's sort of stabilized. I've sort of experimented as well with pretty high dosages of, you know, carbohydrates, but literally just megadosing myoinositol. So, like, taking 2 grams of inositol pre and post meal with each meal. And when I was doing that, I actually noticed a reduction in my HBA 1C. And I was wondering, like, what was the reason for that? And so my HPA1C dropped down. And there was no other change while.

[A]

You were on a high sugar diet?

[B]

Well, I'm eating, like, 350 to 400 grams of carbs per day now. And then I came across some other interesting research on inositol affecting. Have you seen the higher, higher dosage studies on, like, mental health at all with this?

[A]

Yeah, Inositol has amazing effects. I do about 3,5 grams in water at night.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not when I'm traveling, but it Seems to have broad spectrum benefits.

[B]

Definitely. Yeah, Yeah, I think Dr. James D'. Nicol. Antonio has spoken about that, but I've seen some pretty interesting research on like OCD as well.

[A]

Oh, interesting.

[B]

So like, at high, high dosages, 10 to 12 grams of inositol can actually offset some of the negative symptoms of ocd.

[A]

I wish I'd have known about that when I was a kid. I had OCD when I was young and odd as well, which is oppositional defiant disorder, which is not a good thing. It's that Rage against the Machine song, you know, Fu. I won't do what you told me. But it plays in your head all the time. And if someone tells you to do something before you can think, you're like, you cannot make me. No force on earth can make me. And I like to think it's gone. But if you look at some of my disruptive work, like, I'm gonna do the right thing and no force on, sorry, man. Like, I'm just gonna do it.

[B]

Keeps altering. Keep saltering.

[A]

I. I once turned down a $75 million bribe because of that.

[B]

Geez.

[A]

Not because of odd. Just because, like, I have values. And like, you can't make me break my values because it's not worth it. Right, Interesting. So maybe I should take more inositol.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, inositol is interesting. There's, there's a bunch of other, you know, really cool things as well. There's one particular peptide that I came across recently which is not so much for the, the guys that are on trt. This is more appropriate for those that are like on the verge of going onto TRT. So like, let's say late 20s, maybe early 30s, where they're like, they haven't had kids yet. They want to preserve fertility.

[A]

Why do people think testosterone drops fertility? It's the dumbest thing ever.

[B]

Well, yeah, I mean, at high dosages.

[A]

Even at high dosages, just take the other things that raise LH and FSH. I was on testosterone since I was 26. I was 34 and 36 when I had both my kids. Wow. Magically, after 10 years of testosterone, there's so much fear. I think it's all Peter Attia's fault. He's the most fearful non longevity doc I've ever seen. It's like you cannot extend human life. Take statins, get vaccinated and over train and you'll be fine. And it's a quarter million for me to tell you that, like, whatever. But like any doc who's experienced with testosterone can put you on testosterone and say, oh, if you want fertility, let's do either hc, CG or Clomid and possibly Aromidex. But I don't think you need Arimidex. And you can still have perfectly healthy swimmers. But a low testosterone man is also going to be infertile. Exactly right. Or his sperm will be less healthy. So yes, use diet and lifestyle. Eat your egg yolks and butter and all that kind of stuff and get good sleep and lift heavy. But at a certain point, if your testosterone is lower than your mom's, which was me at 26.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

There's nothing wrong with testosterone. Even if you want to have kids, you just have to manage the other hormones that go with it.

[B]

Yeah. In that situation, it's obviously you would have been on a controlled dosage. You weren't taking like 500 milligrams a week.

[A]

No. And you're not doing Nandrolone. And I'm sure that, you know, with synthetic tea and there must be an upper limit where it's bad for you. I wouldn't. I don't want to overstate the case. But physiological dosing, even to get your levels up to like 2000 or something, which is very high. I like to set it around a thousand.

[B]

Yeah. That's your happy spot. Right. Without any side effects, you're not going to get, you know, major issues.

[A]

Side effects are staying motivated, working brain working dopamine systems. I mean, they're very rough side effects of having adequate testosterone.

[B]

You know, the whole. Like in Australia in particular, you should see, there's actually on the news the other week, they're shutting down a playground on the beach. I don't know if you saw this on Bondi Beach.

[A]

I was just in Australia like three weeks ago.

[B]

Wow. They literally did a broadcast talking about why they need to remove the outdoor playground because it increases testosterone too much.

[A]

What? I want that outdoor playground, the one on the beach. What's in it?

[B]

There's nothing. It's just they're saying attracts too much testosterone.

[A]

Oh, God. Because people are working out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What person did that? Like, oh my gosh. Sunshine and pull ups increase testosterone. So I just have to say, if you live in Australia, I was just there. The Australian character is amazing. I love just the nature of people there. But your government's not allowed to do that. Do you guys know this? Right? This is not okay. And there's some low testosterone. Probably a they who said that? And this is not okay. And there's also people in the U.S. they're saying we need to control people's access to sunshine because sunshine raises testosterone and it might be addictive because it raises dopamine. Like we have a testosterone deficiency epidemic, especially in whatever regulator in Australia. And shame on you for doing that. Like, like that is unacceptable. Do we know the name of the person who did that?

[B]

All I saw was it flashed on the news and I just remember seeing it. I'm like, what, what are they?

[A]

People used to be processing at that person. I would do push ups outside that.

[B]

Person'S house in the sun.

[A]

Absolutely. That's semi naked.

[B]

Yeah. It's crazy, man.

[A]

Like, wow.

[B]

I know.

[A]

That's offensive.

[B]

Yeah, it's crazy, man. It just blows my mind. Just how. And then people, you know, when you talk about these practices or therapies or things to actually boost up your levels, the immediate assumption is, oh, is that, is that safe? Oh, is that, you know, is that going to cause side effects? What if your testosterone gets too high? I've had people say that to me about some of the natural interventions.

[A]

You know what's funny? The people who say that are always low testosterone. Because when you're low testosterone, you're fearful and you're miserable. They go together. And this isn't a call for everyone to just go randomly shoot it up. Get your labs. Labs are easy to do. Go to Axo Health, which is part of Upgrade Labs and testosterone is part of the panel that we run. There's lots of places you can get your testosterone levels. Men and women both need it. So having the right dose decreases your risk of all cause mortality. What's interesting is maybe a month or two ago the FDA removed the black box warning from testosterone. You say, oh, it causes prostate cancer. Oh, it turns out it doesn't. And even more interesting is about 10 days before we were recording this, I had a chance to interview the Commissioner of the FDA on stage, Dr. Marty Makari Macari. And this was two days after they removed the warning for women's hormone replacement therapy.

[B]

So for hrt.

[A]

Hrt, which includes testosterone and estrogen and things progesterone. So for 20, he just said on stage, he said, for 23 years we had this wrong. And we had it wrong because the first study, they released the preliminary data that hadn't been peer reviewed in a press release and then journalists picked it up, said, oh, it causes breast cancer. But when they reviewed the data, it didn't cause breast cancer. It wasn't statistically significant. So for 23 years we've been harming women and Marty stood on stage and you said, 50 million women are going to extend their lives or be healthier because now we're endorsing hormone replacement therapy. So when even the fda, which is very conservative, says testosterone for men is no longer dangerous, and testosterone and associated hormones, estrogen and progesterone for women are safe and effective, this is a sea change and I'm really excited. So for anyone who's thinking testosterone is scary, like, get over it. It low testosterone is terrifying.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And testosterone poisoning, you're not going to do this with regular testosterone. The people who have roid rage from the 70s were using artificial forms that don't go away. And even then it was just media. So anyway, I'll get off my high horse about testosterone. What do you do for testosterone?

[B]

I've been obviously experimenting with different protocols to maximize testosterone. Naturally, I was able to get my testosterone to around 950 nanograms per deciliter.

[A]

And how old are you?

[B]

I'm 29.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So, I mean, yeah, I'm still, still young in that regard, but in terms of the, the modalities and interventions, man, I found, honestly, it was, you know, training legs twice a week, which is great in general for like growth hormone, all the other stuff, doing two hit sessions a week. We're not talking like all out, massive, like super intense sessions. We're talking like 10 to 15 minute bouts on like the assault bike or sprinting. And then, yeah, my diet was mostly organ meats, so I mean, obviously bioavailable nutrients.

[A]

Did you get doubt or anything from that?

[B]

No, no. And then I was eating plenty of carbohydrates, so like lots of fruit, you know, maple syrup, honey. Basically a modified carnivore ish diet. And then I was taking a bunch of different supplements as well. So I was taking like boron, tongkat Ali, the Dosia Agrestis, which uses LH and fsh.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I was also microdosing here. And now I was using a little bit of enclomophene as well.

[A]

Okay. Oh, that'll raise your levels. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So I was doing that sporadically as well, which I found, by the way, at 3 milligrams, which is a baby dosage, it still reliably can increase LH.

[A]

Interesting. I found that when I was about 40 or 42, I went off of testosterone. Okay. And this is after years of being.

[B]

On it like a cold turkey stop.

[A]

Or I cold turkey day. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

And then I said, well, I'm going to test the bulletproof diet Right. So let's see how I can get it. So I slept really well, controlled my light exposure, ate a lot of egg yolks, a lot of grass fed steak, tons of butter in my coffee. I got my levels up to 700 at 42, even though I'd been off testosterone, I'd been on testosterone for more than a decade.

[B]

It's incredible.

[A]

Two decades? No, decade and a half at the time. So we can raise testosterone. Problem is, a thousand is the sweet spot. And if I'm going to fly to Dubai and I'm going to be on stage, you know, 14 hours a day, not on stage for four hours, but in meetings for hours a day for the past nine days of this trip in three different cities, I'm probably not going to maximize my testosterone on that. So yeah, I take Kaiser tracks now, which is great.

[B]

Oh nice. The oral.

[A]

Oral, yeah.

[B]

So testosterone and decanoate. The oral, yeah, the lymphatic.

[A]

Lymphatic absorption, yeah, that's daveasprey.com testosterone for that protocol, if you guys are interested. So, but like it just drives me crazy. You see these guys, you know, 50s, 60s, and they're clearly low testosterone. They're saying, I exercise, it doesn't work and my brain isn't working. Like you take some pills, you could take an injection and just get your life back. But maybe they can go on your protocol if they want to eat a lot of organ meats.

[B]

Yeah, I mean they can also. It's more suited to the guys that are like, yeah, like 20s to sort of 30s, that are like needing to optimize.

[A]

I like the idea of getting it high enough so you feel great with natural compounds. And at a certain point if we're aging, you're probably going to go on testosterone and that's okay. And I mean you can do infrared light and red light on your balls, you can ice your balls. I mean there's an infinite number of things, but at the end of the day, how many hours per day are you willing to spend on raising testosterone naturally? And for me the number is zero.

[B]

Yeah, that's fair enough.

[A]

I have other things to do.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, there's a bunch of, bunch of benefits we know, like correcting low levels, bringing it back up into a medium to high range. Like you're offsetting the risk for so many diseases.

[A]

And yeah, like all cause mortality, cardiovascular, cancer, all the things. Do you worry about having thick blood? People talk about that.

[B]

I think the, like the high hematocrit. Yeah, I think that's slightly overblown in terms of. Yeah, yeah. I don't think that's a huge risk. Again, if you're a bodybuilder taking big dosages and you're combining it with like Anavar and all the other anabolic agents. Yeah, that's the issue.

[A]

Have you ever played with those anabolic agents?

[B]

No. I've only sort of experimented with certain SARMs. So I've used osterine to bring down my SHBG and that worked really well. That actually dropped my SHBG without any side effects and it brought up my free testosterone.

[A]

Interesting. I did a protocol. It's still on my blog. This was probably eight, nine years ago. In six weeks, I put on 29 pounds of muscle. It was insane. I had to buy new shirts. I remember the reason I remember this, I was going on stage at a Tony Robbins event.

[B]

Jeez.

[A]

And I packed the shirt I was going to wear and I put it on. It was literally popping buttons. So I had to buy this dumb looking blue shir shirt that I wore on stage from whatever store was next door because I literally. But I also tore both my shoulders. Because your ligaments don't grow when your muscles grow. Right. And that was only with SARMs.

[B]

But is it a combination or just a single?

[A]

Like a rad140 from memory? There was four that I took.

[B]

Four at once.

[A]

Of course, the stack is still on thing. There was Carterine, which is.

[B]

So it's like the fat burner.

[A]

Yeah. And it's a mitochondrial enhancer. That's my favorite one. It's GW 501516. And then was it LG, LGD 4033? Yep. 4033. And RAD 140. And.

[B]

And then YK 11.

[A]

That wasn't it. God. Off the top of my head, it's been. I haven't really played with sarms much.

[B]

MK67. Yeah. That's not a S, but that's a no.

[A]

It might have been MK677. I still use that on rare occasions.

[B]

I like MK67.

[A]

Talk about MK67. What is it and why do you use it?

[B]

So I'm a big fan of MK677. So basically, researchers were looking at ways to increase growth hormone in, like, prepubescent sort of boys. And they're basically looking at ways to how can we actually boost growth hormone without administering growth hormone itself? And the interesting part about MK677 is that it's a ghrelin receptor agonist. So it's hitting the ghrelin receptor in the stomach and also in the brain. And what that does is it triggers more growth hormone release. And then, as we know, a lot of the benefits of growth hormone actually come from IGF1. So IGF1 is the. It actually is the most anabolic hormone in the body test. A lot of people think testosterone is the most anabolic hormone. It's actually IGF1. So MK677. Let's put it out there. Like, MK677 is not a SARM. It's actually a growth hormone secretag. Like, people think that it has suppressive effects on testosterone. It doesn't. What it does do is it can actually increase prolactin. So that's a bit of a drawback, but that's easy to offset. You take, you know, high dose, you know, vitamin B6 or cabergoline, which is the most effective pharmaceutical drug known to suppress prolactin.

[A]

All right, we're gonna have to talk about cabergoline for a second. Then we're gonna get back into growth hormone.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So cabergoline is a drug that drops prolactin dramatically.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So if you're a guy over, say, 40 and you don't like having a long refractory period, that's the amount of time between when you can get it up after you ejac. Well, that's driven by prolactin. So if you ejaculate, which you don't want to do too often, according to all the research that I've talked about, then you take a little bit of capricoline, which is a pharmaceutical substance, and then your prolactin doesn't rise, and then you don't have that long gap between erections, which is kind of nice.

[B]

Yeah. So you can go multiple rounds. So, yeah, you know, that, that's a, That's a nice benefit of hitting the dopamine receptor. The MK677 story is like, it's. It increases growth hormone. It also increases aldosterone. So you get an effect on, like, water retention and stuff. So when you jumped on stage and you were like, you would have got, like, super strong. Like, obviously you would have been lifting pretty heavy at the time.

[A]

I didn't change my workouts at all. I was lifting, but I wasn't. I didn't.

[B]

And you just put on size and muscle, basically.

[A]

I mean, there's lots of studies showing just increasing testosterone. Even if you don't exercise, you grow muscle.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's kind of ridiculous.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, MK677. I like using it. But the biggest side effect, the one that deters absolutely everyone, is that it makes you absolutely ravenous, like, super hungry. To the point where you'll open the pantry and, like, you'll just be going back, back and forth, back and forth.

[A]

Is that a problem? Just put lots of ribeye in there. That's how I do that.

[B]

You could do that.

[A]

I'm hungry. Steak. I'm hungry. Steak. Cheese. Like, it's not that big. Let's be practical. Hunger is a good thing, right?

[B]

Yeah. This sort of hunger is like. I feel like it rewires your brain to, like, seek out. It's like the opposite of Ozempic.

[A]

So it really hits you that much.

[B]

It's like the antithesis of Ozempic.

[A]

I don't get that hungry on MK677. But when we're talking about growth hormone. So I've had lots of weird biological stuff, including massive mold poisoning, HPA axis dysfunction, which is part of the system that makes growth hormone. So I got tested maybe 10 years ago, actually probably 12 years ago, my growth hormone production was zero.

[B]

Jeez.

[A]

And so I went on growth hormone for three or four years.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And I went off of it, which you're not supposed to be able to do, but you can. And magically my production resumed.

[B]

So, re. Kick start.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The axis. How does that like a positive feedback loop instead of a negative.

[A]

It's hard to say why. I also take all the right supplements and things.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So.

[B]

And I heard that about thyroid.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So taking T3 can actually bump out reverse T3.

[A]

And that's interesting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For short term.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So for whatever reason, you know, they say once you're on growth hormone, you're on it for life. That's not the case. It's not true. So for years, my growth hormone was normal, but in the last six months, it's dropped again. And that's probably because I have been flying more than I've ever done and, like, sleep disruption. I don't really get jet lag, but sometimes I'm just. I don't have enough hours to sleep. I've just. Lots going on in the business.

[B]

Your schedule's full on.

[A]

Yeah, it's. It's. It's not something that I would recommend for.

[B]

You live, like, on average, three people's lives in one week.

[A]

You've seen my calendar.

[B]

It's full on.

[A]

Yeah. And, you know, I'm actually having a great amount of fun, but it, you know, I also don't have a girlfriend right now. I couldn't. There's no space for a girlfriend right now. Yeah, but it's, it's a thing where, okay, what am I going to do about my growth hormone? So it's funny, I just ordered some mk677.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

And cjc and ipamorelin.

[B]

Awesome.

[A]

Which are peptides. And that stack will almost certainly raise my hormone with. Without me having to take it.

[B]

Yeah. See what happens to your sleep as well. Obviously. And then also, yeah. If you were deliberately trying to train for hypertrophy or like actually make some gain, like serious like strength gains in the gym. People that jump on MK, like we're talking even as low as like 10 milligrams even they notice improvements. Strength in the gym.

[A]

Interesting. Yeah, I'll, I'll track it because we all the AI stuff at upgrade labs.

[B]

And I'll be curious to know how you go with your, your appetite regulation as well.

[A]

I'll pay extra attention to it. So if you're listening to this going, these guys just dropped. Really going to raise your growth hormone. Well, you should probably get it tested. IGF1 is a good way to see that's easy to get IGF1 labs. So I'm saying, all right, if it's really low, you probably should try MK677 or CJC and Ipamorelin. And so I'll see what happens. This brings us to another, another discussion here. So you see people saying more muscle mass, more longevity and that's actually correlated pretty well. And Gabrielle Lyon is a dear friend and I just, I adore the way she thinks about things. She's so freaking smart.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And there's another side of this though. It's the Shaolin monks, okay. They can do more with no muscle mass and some of them are incredibly strong.

[B]

But what's their, what is their daily energy expenditure? How much energy do they burn? The question is what do they actually? Because what do they do all day?

[A]

I have no idea.

[B]

Don't they just like meditate?

[A]

No. The Shaolin monks are karate people. Oh. The active ones, they do like one finger push ups and those incredible feats of strength.

[B]

But they like Bruce Lee's.

[A]

Yeah. They have no bulk. So neural drive.

[B]

Neural drive?

[A]

Yeah, drive strength. So it turns out strength is probably more important than muscle mass.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But you want enough muscle mass that if you get in a car accident or you get sick that you can feed off the muscles. And I get a little concerned because I'm 6% body fat. Wow. So I don't have a lot of reserves there. And I'm to the point. It's really hard to put on fat.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

In fact, I almost can't put on fat. And I don't know what it is that I'm doing. My mitochondria are doing something interesting. Who knows? But I went up to 400 grams of carbs a day. I can eat 3,4000 calories. I'm completely impervious to weight gain.

[B]

Body composition stays pretty much.

[A]

As a former obese person with all my family's obese, biohacking does stuff. I've done the falstatin gene therapy, but I was that way before the gene therapy. Wow. So there's interesting things going on and I'm just always working on packing it.

[B]

I think you've just reset every possible metabolic system that's known to man.

[A]

Yeah. And the problem is eating 400, sometimes 500 grams of carbs, mostly white rice, honey fruit. My HBA1C goes up, but I don't get any weight.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's kind of crazy.

[B]

Yeah. I think the HBA1C is not really an issue unless it's also combined with elevated like crp, triglycerides.

[A]

But no, triglycerides are low. Yeah. CRP is low.

[B]

Then I think you're fine.

[A]

It's kind of funny.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't want glycation because that's an aging thing that comes.

[B]

You're already offsetting that with like, you know, L, carnosine and thymine every day.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And you've been taking tudka. That helps with your liver as well.

[A]

Like my liver is a 10 year old liver. According to the Deliverance people, when they scanned it, they're like, we've never seen a liver this young. That's a fibrosis scan. Like a scan.

[B]

Right, Right.

[A]

And so like some of the longevity things that, that are possible. It when I say these things, there's some doctor out there going, that's not possible. Therefore it didn't happen. I'm like, no, it actually happened. And I like being the guy at the very edge of the curve. The problem is that I've done so many things that unpacking it. But I just want to say it's possible.

[B]

It is possible.

[A]

You can turn testosterone back on. You turn growth hormone back on. I haven't managed to turn my thyroid back on. Actually. That's not true.

[B]

Your tsh.

[A]

Yeah. Because I had Hashimoto's since I was probably a teenager. And I did find that when I Went on sarms that I had to stop taking thyroid because it seemed to fix my thyroid. But then when I went off the surms, I didn't go back on thyroid. And then I got frizzy hair and had low thyroid symptoms. So. Wow. I take like 90, 90 milligrams of desiccated thyroid.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And I've been on that pretty much except for that period since I was 26.

[B]

What about like the, the iodine experimentation? Did you ever mega dose any iodine back in the day?

[A]

You know, there was a time in the early aughts where megadosing iodine was all the rage. And there's a protocol of Lugol's iodine for it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And there's a really strong body of evidence that says if you have Hashimoto's, you probably shouldn't take high dose iodine.

[B]

I agree. Yeah.

[A]

And at the same time, iodine isn't just for your thyroid, it's for many systems in the body. So I think creating iodine deficiency because you have Hashimoto's is dumb. So I just took iodine anyway because I already had Hashimoto's. What am I going to make it worse? I'll just take more thyroid. So, yeah, I experimented with ideas.

[B]

Fair enough. Yeah. I've seen some interesting research on the T3 intervention. Like actually substituting T3 back in can actually drop down reverse T3. And some people have that stealth reverse T3. They're wondering why they're so fatigued.

[A]

Yeah, let me explain that for people. So when your body needs energy, it releases tsh, which is basically, hey buddy, can I have more thyroid hormone? And then the body releases T4 and then T4 gets converted into T3, mostly in the liver, if memory serves.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And something goes wrong, especially if you're on a low carb or a carnivore diet where it raises your reverse T3. So instead of the liver making the T3 that your body used, that actually makes energy for you or turns on energy for you, it makes a mirror molecule that you can't use. So the you asked for it, you made the T4, but then you didn't make the thing. So some people have that kind of an issue. And strangely, if you're low carb, you probably have some of this going on.

[B]

I agree. The. And also because it's also linked to shbg. So the low carb group, the heavy carnivore type diets, raises SHBG always.

[A]

Yeah, that was the one thing that drove me nuts with the bulletproof diet is I would see increases in shbg, and that's bad because it sticks to testosterone and actually female hormones as well. So that even though your body's making enough of it, you don't get to use it because it got stuck to the sticky molecule. And the cure for that is egcg, which is green tea extract. And they'll usually bring SHBG back down. Yeah, that's one of my favorite supplements of all time.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. And also anything that supports liver health, which you're already doing with. With the tudka.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which I'm a huge fan of.

[A]

Yeah. Tadka is one of those things that, I mean, we could all take 150 pills a day, like I do, and there's a cost and how much will you swallow? But Tadka has so much evidence for keeping a healthy liver. And if you live in the modern world, we have all kinds of stuff your liver is being asked to do that it shouldn't do if you're a caveman. So Tadka is one of my longevity supplements. Because having a good liver makes you live longer.

[B]

Yeah, I think it's an. I think. Well, a lot of people don't realize that the liver, like, basically processes over 500 chemical reactions every day. And if there's one supplement that you can take every day to support your liver without many side effects and also support digestion, I think tudka is like, it should be a daily staple. And I personally use like a thousand milligrams a day every day of tudka. Yeah.

[A]

Dang, that is a lot. I'm probably at 500, but I could take more.

[B]

They've done studies on 1800 milligrams. And at that dosage, that's where they saw improvements in insulin sensitivity in the liver specifically.

[A]

Wow. So it's funny. Every system in the body, if you know you have a problem or you know you want to change it, there's something you can do.

[B]

There really is.

[A]

It starts to get a little bit weird, Right. You change this system, but it also changed this system. It's also. So it's kind of like finding the recipe for your body and for your state. And this is advanced biohacking we're talking about. And if you're listening to the show going, I don't even know what half of that stuff they said was, but, well, here's the deal. You don't have to do any of this, but if you're having liver problems, you might want to do this. If your. IGF1 is low and you don't have growth hormone, you might want to do this. If your testosterone is low, you might want to do this because those are big, important things.

[B]

Oh, they're huge levers. Like if you optimize any of these levers, like you are going to dramatically improve your energy, your focus, your recovery, digestion, all the things that people complain about. If you just target. If you do a top down approach. All right, let's optimize brain function. Thyroid adrenals and then test testes or hormones. Like, you're going to feel a lot better for sure.

[A]

Yeah, you're going to feel way better. And it's kind of funny when I'm doing like baseline longevity work with people, it's just tell me your thyroid levels, tell me your testosterone levels. And it's almost always one of those. And you have to do that first. And then there's a lot more. And lately I've been having the most fun I've had in years with my unlimited life program. And it said HTTP whatever. Unlimited life. And in this we're getting $40,000 of lab work on people.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

And they get a 40 years of Zen and then I work on their labs with an epic longevity doctor and a set of top coaches. And it's a year long program. We're measuring using our own algorithms. How long are you likely to live given your current state?

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Combining a lot of different data sets. And then how do we change that over the course of a year?

[B]

Is this a competition? Is it like a competition?

[A]

No, it's not a competition. This is a concierge longevity program and we take people to Ecuador for five days in the middle of the jungle at a five star resort and we teach them all the longevity stuff and we do ceremonial things and it's like the full stack. Let's fix your brain, let's fix your hormones, let's just do everything. But to be able to sit in a room, you know, with a top doc and to be able to go back and forth on labs and have this kind of conversation with our client right there and saying, how much do you want to do? Like, let's see, it's, it's. We're getting to the point we can do this professionally and it's profound. But it always starts. Thyroid testosterone. Thyroid testosterone. Can we talk about ketamine?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you use it personally?

[B]

I've never used ketamine, but I do possibly see myself like subjecting my body to the substance in the future.

[A]

Okay, got it. But you talk about a ketamine like stack, but how do you know it's kind of unlike you've never used ketamine.

[B]

So based on the theoretical mechanisms, it just basically reverse engineering. How does ketamine work in the brain? We know that it's an NMDA receptor antagonist. It's like a, like a mega, mega dose magnesium on that receptor. So it's an NMDA blocker. Okay. But what's really cool is we know that ketamine has very fast acting, fast onset antidepressant effects because it snaps the brain.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, into a, into a. It also works on the default mode network, which is similar to, you know, psilocybin.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

But what's interesting is if we unpack and reverse engineer the, the mechanism, the other glutamate receptor, the AMPA receptor. What's really fascinating is there's actually been research on one of the key compounds from cordyceps, which is cordyceps. Cordycepin.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah, you've probably heard of cordycepin. Some companies are smart enough to standardize their Cordyceps for like 1%. Cordycepin. Cordycepin. Actually there's a study that actually shows that it links its antidepressant effect, that it's actually similar to ketamine in its onset. So working on the AMPA receptor, if we combine that then with the sarcosine that I was mentioning before. So you're doing cordycepin, the sarcosine and then if we combine that with glycine, because I said that sarcosine is a glycine reuptake inhibitor. Some people have stated that they get some of the antidepressant like qualities of this stack that they've attributed to like the days after using.

[A]

Okay. You're not going to get a journey experience though. This is more than you're not going.

[B]

To unlock the, the other elements, the.

[A]

Depth of you get the default mode and the norepinephrine dump, which is a major part of ketamine to do shamanic journeying work like I would on ketamine from this stack. But if it was for depression, that could possibly work.

[B]

What was your experience like with, with ketamine?

[A]

Yeah, so at this point, with 40 years of Zen, we use ketamine assisted neurofeedback as an option there. So the reason I like low dose ketamine is it increases neuroplasticity better than almost any other compound. So now you have a brain that's more able to learn from neurofeedback. But when I do Higher dose ketamine. It's. It's actually a profound experience, and I think most people would benefit from doing it once in a therapist's office or at a. At a clinic. In part because it's a psychedelic, like experience, but it just teaches you that you're more than your body.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So there's a. The disassociation thing is really powerful. Some people get scared, but not that many. And if so, they're usually healing from something when they do it. When I do it, I've done all but ibogaine on the psychedelic chart, and I'm doing ibogaine in the next couple months here.

[B]

Oh, wow. Yeah.

[A]

No, I was gonna say it's been on my to do list for 10 years, but there's a cardiac risk for ibogaine, so I'm not doing it without cardiology.

[B]

Did not climb and recently do it, I think.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, he did. I just talked to him a couple days ago after. His eyes look different. You could tell. I think it was good for him.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Was that his first psychedelic experience or.

[A]

Definitely not. Yeah, it was his first ibogaine experience. Let's just say that I might have been at Mark's. I actually read poetry at Mark's wedding at Burning man, so. Wow.

[B]

I was not expecting that. Yeah. Interesting. So was it the intranasal ketamine that you did or was it.

[A]

I have done mostly im. Ketamine.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And troches are the two most common ways. I see a lot of people in Austin parties with intranasal ketamine, but that's a very different use case. It's sort of. I don't think it's a great party drug because of the addictive potential for it, but I think it's a really powerful personal development drug. And I. Yeah, when I do it, I. I typically am going to do two injections and I'll go into very altered states. And I'm doing, you know, I would just call it medicine work, but stuff that's a lot more esoteric.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Interesting.

[A]

Yeah. If you want to get some good downloads, ketamine's good for that. And it's shorter acting than say, you know, a bigger dose of mushrooms or something. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow. So how come you haven't done ketamine?

[B]

Honestly, I think a lot of it comes down to just the fear of dissociation.

[A]

So low testosterone is your wrong just messing up.

[B]

I think there's just. I mean. Yeah, being in Australia, like, the. There's no, like, therapeutic.

[A]

Oh, it's not legal.

[B]

Like, it's not legal.

[A]

So if in the US it's actually legal. And there's lots.

[B]

Like I said, I think I see myself leveraging it in the future just to disrupt my rigid thinking. Sometimes I think that'd be useful.

[A]

It's a beautiful experience unless you have the genes where it doesn't work. And then if you do too much ketamine, it's really unpleasant. I did that one time when we were testing out the doses for 40 years of Zen. And this is under a doctor's supervision. You know, we're not like, it's a medical. Medical setting. So I went probably three times our normal dose. And that was a very unpleasant experience. I actually had to learn how ketamine worked in order to get out of it.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

Yeah. And so, yeah, it's.

[B]

It's not like I couldn't talk.

[A]

I was like. And then my eyes were moving in different directions, so I would get nauseous if I opened them. And then I was completely emotionally flat for almost a month after. Yeah. I felt no joy, felt no. No anger. Just nothing. I actually told my team at work, I'm like. I was like, something's weird. So.

[B]

Really? For a whole month? Yeah.

[A]

And what happened is I just absolutely emptied all my norapi reserves. So I just need to figure out rodeol and tyrosine. So brought it back. Yeah. And took a day to bring it back once I figured out what was. But that's why if people are doing ketamine, I'm like, maybe the next day, rhodiol and tyrosine would be a good idea to just restore norepinephrine.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because everyone, folks, serotonin and dopamine. It wasn't those.

[B]

It was actually, yeah. The catecholamines. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. It's interesting how they're also looking at the derivatives as well. You know, obviously Big Pharma is looking at alternative, you know, isomers of ketamine, S. Ketamine and. And things like that. But, yeah, one of my. One of my friends, actually, I think you may know him, actually. Do you know Jack Aloka, by any chance?

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. Crazy dude. I love him. Yeah.

[B]

He actually subjected himself to an even more potent NMDA antagonist called MK801.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Has he shared that experience with you?

[A]

I believe so.

[B]

Yeah. It's like. I think it is the most powerful. Like, it induces schizophrenia in rats.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know why you'd want to do that.

[B]

Yeah, I don't.

[A]

I don't know. He's an unusual human. If he's actually human, that's questionable. Probably an alien. Right? What are some things that you've tested that you would never recommend to the public?

[B]

Oh, geez. I have tried. What is it? 10 Methoxy Harmalan.

[A]

So I've tried harmaline. Interesting.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I've tried to. I've tried a substance that. It's called 10 methoxyharmalan.

[A]

So you'll do that, but not ketamine. That's the most hilarious thing ever. Anyway, tell me more about Harmon.

[B]

So this one here, I was researching different ways to block the serotonin receptors on some nicotine. And I'm all good. I'm all good.

[A]

This is like a peer pressure kind of thing. I'm just testing to see how high.

[B]

Your testosterone is.10 Methoxyharmalan was definitely to. It was a serotonin antagonist. But I think what's interesting about it is it's actually found in some of the, like, ayahuasca brew. It's one of the actual alkaloids.

[A]

You said it's one that drops serotonin.

[B]

It's a serotonin antagonist.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So I was just really curious to see, like, what sort of effect that would induce. And I used it orally. I got in a liquid format and just don't think it really hit the. Hit the spot for me. I don't know if it really. Yeah. Did me any favors.

[A]

I never understood depression really. I've been through things. There's times I've been sad but not really depressed. And this is just a long time ago. I found some topical compound that absorbed through the skin. I don't remember its name off the top of my head. That drops serotonin dramatically. And there's an argument that too much serotonin is not good for you because serotonin is kind of like a stress molecule throughout the body. Right. But man, I never understood depression until I did that.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I'm like, why am I here? Life is not worth living. Unfortunately, I figured out what it was and stopped putting that stuff on my skin. But, man, yeah, there's some things. Even if I remember the name of that compound off the top of my head, I wouldn't share it.

[B]

Lisirod Lysrod.

[A]

It was some custom made thing.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It was. It was particularly nasty. So, yeah, there's times where you can get stuck and with any of the biohacking things that we've just discussed, I mean, cordyceps is unlikely to do really bad things. But if you're doing edgy stuff. You might want to have a friend and some lab tests. Right. Because.

[B]

Or a control Z, an undo button, like a reverse engineer. Like, let's say it does push me too far in that direction. What's my way to, like, reset?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How do I get out of it? Yeah.

[A]

Because otherwise, if you do stuff that affects your consciousness, Right. It's a problem. So, like, if. If I'm in a space where I'm going to be doing psychedelics, right. I'm going to have some benzodiazepines, you have some Ativan, because Ativan can take you out of those spaces. Like, it's. And if someone has a serotonin crisis or something like that, they should definitely make sure that they have that super Heptidane, that backup. So it's one of these things where most people don't do what you and I do. And this is where, like, the edges of discovery happen. And there are lots of psychonauts who do things.

[B]

And it's just being, like, one step ahead before you jump into any sort of intervention or experimentation. Like, just map it out. Like, at least have a protocol for like, a post if something does push you in the wrong direction. Have a backup plan for, like.

[A]

Yeah. And if it's a testosterone thing, that's manageable. Oh, yeah, right. Most of the hormone things are manageable. But also just do a little bit of research on chat GPT. Like, I had a. A close friend who was low on thyroid and she went on thyroid and then switched doctors who accidentally tripled her dose. And if you're on three times more thyroid than you need and within the course of the month, she's like, I. I might be done. Like, like just so much anxiety and stress. It's a horrible feeling to have too much thyroid and deliver that. And I've done lunch. Maybe I'm done. Like, maybe I don't need to be here. Like, I can't. Ah.

[B]

Wow. And far too, too much, like, too intense for her.

[A]

Yeah. And so thank goodness we got to talk about it and figured out. So when she went back to her normal dose, she was much happier.

[B]

Yeah. Wow.

[A]

Right. And so that kind of stuff can happen, but have a good friend, have someone who's into this. And if you don't know someone, find someone in your neighborhood. There's plenty of people. Make a biohacking friend because it's way more fun to do that anyway and just share your results. And then you got somebody who can help you out and some Doctors are more open to this than others. No doctor's going to tell you that they recommend any of the stuff we talked about, except for maybe testosterone and thyroid. But if you tell your doctor, hey, you know, I did this right, there's pros and cons. If they put it in their notes, your chance, your ability to buy life insurance might go down. Right. But you should have a good functional doctor if you're going to do the advanced stuff, I think it's really worth it for sure. One more compound. Actually, two more compounds I want to chat with you about. One that's been catching my eye lately is dilucine.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Think about that.

[B]

Yeah, Dilucine to put it out there for your audience. So basically, most people know about BCAAs, like Leucine, Isoleucine, Valine, the three BCAAs.

[A]

That'S branched chain amino acids.

[B]

So branch chain amino acids, they actually fall under the essential amino acids.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So there's the essential amino acids and you've got the BCAAs. And oftentimes you'll see in pre workouts or, you know, different products, they'll basically put in a bunch of leucine, isoleucine and valine. Because leucine is the most well studied amino acid to stimulate mtor. Right. Like to, which is basically mammalian target of rapamycin, helping with muscle growth. So they believe that leucine is one of the main stimuluses or stimuli for triggering muscle protein synthesis or mtor. What we're really understanding is that it's not just leucine. The essential amino acids, all of them, together with leucine, are beneficial. But what's really fascinating is that leucine, there's a new molecule that's been released, you know, about NNB nutrition, they've released dilucine, which is the. Basically they're bound up two leucine molecules together. And in a couple of clinical studies, it showed that dilucine was 42, 42% more effective than leucine at actually triggering muscle protein synthesis.

[A]

That's cool.

[B]

So I, my hunch is that in like 20, 26, you're going to start seeing like all these protein powders adding in.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Dilucine to their protein powders because they're like, all right, well, how can we enhance what people are already doing?

[A]

What's the dose that you work with?

[B]

2 grams.

[A]

Yeah. Which is. I just buy pills, I take four pills. And then you get it, Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So dilucin, I think has some promising research as like a natural anabolic there's always going to be a demand for those. Like, there's always going to be a market that wants anything such as like urolithin A or anything that's sort of like a natural compound to support muscle growth.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Like, or offset sarcopenia. And that's, that's for the elderly. Like, you know, after the age of, what is it, 35 or 40, you lose 1% of your muscle. So anything that you can take to support to prevent muscle wastage, such as like HMB or vitamin D, these are going to be more demand because why. A lot of people are using high dosages of GLP1 agonists, not microdoses, but they're using high doses and they're losing muscle.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, what about ACE167, the peptide?

[B]

This one here really caught my attention because it's an orally active peptide that actually upregulates the conversion of cholesterol into pregnenolone. So it upregulates that steroidogenesis pathway. This could potentially stack really nicely with like Kaiser tracks. That's. That would be really cool. I haven't seen anyone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Experiment with that. But that could be a cool combination.

[A]

It's on my list. Then again, I have a fridge full of peptides I need to load into pens. So I'm behind on my usage of peptides because I travel too much right now.

[B]

Yeah, this, this one's. I think also some research suggests that it can increase luteinizing hormone sensitivity as well. Yeah. So, yeah. A BPC157 has been like super hot for the last couple of years. I think Ace167 is going to be the new, the new BPC157.

[A]

Ooh, that's interesting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What is your, your least favorite peptide?

[B]

Least favorite? I was gonna say probably like the GHRP6, the GHRP2 and GHRP6. Why? Because some of them have like growth hormone releasing peptides. Yeah. Because they, they're not as effective as what people think they are. Just, they're just. You're better off using ipamorelin or tessamorelin or MK677.

[A]

Mine might be DSIP. Deep sleep inducing peptide. That stuff doesn't do anything for me. Have you tried it?

[B]

That's the one. I haven't. I've never tried it and I've never recommended it at all.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. From, from a deep sleep perspective, my most favorite compound for like. And it's actually a natural compound. It's actually a particular seaweed. It's a brown algae.

[A]

Oh, a clonia cover.

[B]

Yeah. Clonia cava.

[A]

Yep. Love that stuff. I take every night.

[B]

Yeah, that's. I think that's better for, like, in general, for sleep. There's no habituation, there's no side effects. It's an antioxidant.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But dsip. I haven't really heard good things about that at all.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know anyone who got results from it.

[B]

MK677, for some guys have actually. Has actually dramatically improved their deep sleep. Yeah.

[A]

If your growth hormone goes up, you'll get more deep sleep.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So.

[B]

So it'll be interesting when you get your hands on that.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I have 677 sitting at home as soon as I get back, so I'll be going and doing. What do you think, a couple months on that?

[B]

Yeah. Like 10 milligrams before bed. Maybe one hour before bed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's not a huge dose, but it's enough like you'll. You will wake up extra hungry. You'll be looking for extra eggs or steak in the fridge.

[A]

But I'm not afraid of food at this point. Yeah. It's impossible for me to get fat right now.

[B]

Just make sure there's no baklava in the fridge.

[A]

Even that doesn't seem like it will affect me. It's. It's kind of funny to be fat my whole life and then to finally just be superhuman. Things work.

[B]

Superhuman.

[A]

Yeah. I would really like to say, hey, guys, here's how I did that. I don't know.

[B]

It's hard to reverse and unpack everything that you've done because you've just done so much. Right.

[A]

Yeah. Ben Beekman was on the show, who's Brilliant guy, and we were talking about. He goes, that's not possible because we were looking at my numbers and talking about, like, why.

[B]

Why did he unpack your, like, blood work or something?

[A]

We just chatted about some of the markers, but it's like, okay, why is it that. And I'm not on the GLP ones. I. I did one week at the very start because I think, oh, this would be a weight loss drug. So I did one week to do a podcast on it, and then I tried microdosing retatrutide, but it just makes me feel like for three days.

[B]

So it's not good for dopamine, by the way. It's actually. There's actually some negative of severely interesting, problematic effects for dopamine that no one's.

[A]

Really talking, even in microdosing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so this might be an argument against using.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Retatrutide or GLP1s for longevity. It's the first one I've heard. Tell me more.

[B]

No, so, like, I've actually a lot of clients that I've worked with, they've been using microdoses of radotrutide. They're talking like less than a milligram a week.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. And they're actually noticing that their mood is off and their desires. Like, if you're going to block. Okay. Rotatrutide works by inhibiting your desire for food.

[A]

Right. And desire for everything else.

[B]

And desire for everything else. Because it's working on the dopamine access. So why would you want to target that pathway to. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's better ways to improve insulin sensitivity. Like there's 5Amino, 1 MQ, there's all these other SLU, PP, 332, Carterine, Metformin.

[A]

Like. Yeah, the list goes on.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. That's a unique take on it. Yeah, that's food for thought. So what we're finding here is that this conversation, people are going to be going through the notes on this on the website. All the notes will be here. But it's a complex conversation. You don't have to do everything we talked about. In fact, doing everything we talked about is going to take you a couple years or more. And you've been doing this for 10 years.

[B]

Yeah, quite some time now.

[A]

Yeah. And for me it's 25 years, not necessarily with all the peptides, but for 15 years of peptides. So I go through phases and things like that. But what I want you to do is start with thyroid and testosterone, because those are low hanging fruit. And then if you have another goal, go after that one and just do the goals one at a time. And then that's how biohacking really works. But if you say I'm going to take everything right away, it's like if you don't have a goal and you're just kind of scattering the stuff everywhere, you might get great results, but you'll probably get some weird results and you won't even know what it is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So. All right. Well, Lucas, where can people find you?

[B]

Yeah, they can just check out my YouTube channel. So it's boost your biology on YouTube. So. Yeah, pumping out a lot of content there. So they can check me out there.

[A]

Sweet. Well, thanks for taking time in Dubai.

[B]

Thanks, Dave.

[A]

And let's go eat some baklava.

[B]

Yeah, done. Sounds good.

[A]

If you liked today's episode, you know what to do, make sure you subscribe to the channel, follow like you know all the random kind of stuff. And Lucas is an up and coming biohacker, very smart guy and there aren't a lot of people come on the show more than one times, but he's always experimenting so definitely someone where I'll listen to your perspective on things and you've really done a lot of work so it's impressive and thank you.

[B]

Thanks Dave. Thanks for having me back on. And yeah, it's always a pleasure chatting with your your fun audience.

[A]

See you next time on the Human Upgrade Podcast.

[D]

A Human Upgrade, formerly Bulletproof Radio, was created and is hosted by Dave Asprey. The information contained in this podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended for the purposes of diagnosing, treating, curing, or preventing any disease. Before using any products referenced on the podcast, consult with your healthcare provider carefully, read all labels, and heed all directions and cautions that accompany the products. Information found or received through the podcast should not be used in place of of a consultation or advice from a healthcare provider. If you suspect you have a medical problem or should you have any healthcare questions, please promptly call or see your healthcare provider. This podcast, including Dave Asprey and the producers, disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information contained herein. Opinions of guests are their own and this podcast does not endorse or accept responsibility for statements made by guests. This podcast does not make any representations or warranties about guest qualifications or credibility. This podcast may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products or services. Individuals on this podcast may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to herein. This podcast is owned by Bulletproof Media.