The Secret Federal Plan to Feed Us Legal Poison : 1390

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey

Episode 1390 – "The Secret Federal Plan to Feed Us Legal Poison" (January 1, 2026)

Host: Dave Asprey
Guest: Will (functional medicine practitioner)
Main Theme:
This episode explores the intersection of government, industry influence, and health, focusing on how regulatory capture by Big Food and Big Pharma impacts public health policy and labeling laws. It then bridges into a deep-dive on complex health syndromes like POTS, long COVID, chronic fatigue, and mold illness, unraveling their shared mechanistic threads and actionable biohacking interventions.

---

Table of Contents

1. Conspiracy, Misinformation, and Narrative Control
2. Industry Lobbying and “Legal Poison” — The Fight Over Food Labeling
3. Long COVID, POTS, Mold, and Biotoxin Illness: The Clinical Overlap
4. Actionable Treatments: Mast Cells, Electrolytes, Creatine, and More
5. Methylation, Folic Acid, and Genetic Vulnerabilities
6. Nootropics, Nicotine, and Biohacking Odds & Ends
7. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

---

1. Conspiracy, Misinformation, and Narrative Control

Topic Overview:
Dave and Will open with a discussion on how the term "conspiracy theory" was invented and weaponized, the rise of “misinformation” rhetoric, and issues of censorship, particularly in health advocacy and social media.

Key Points:

• “Conspiracy theory” as a term was invented by the CIA to discredit dissenters ([04:20]).
• Both guests express frustration over the policing of speech under the guise of public safety ([05:01–05:52]).
• Dave outlines how “misinformation” is used to shut down genuine debate:

  “Anytime someone says misinformation, they're a coward. Something is either true or false.” – Dave ([00:02], [05:02])

• Will recounts being censored and disowned for sharing unpopular medical viewpoints during the pandemic ([07:06–08:27]).
• Social media toxicity and intolerance often come from purportedly “liberal” circles ([09:08–10:10]).

---

2. Industry Lobbying and “Legal Poison”

The Fight Over Food Labeling

Topic Overview:
This segment exposes efforts by Big Food to preempt state-level food safety rules and push for federal deregulation that favors processed food producers.

Key Points:

• Major food corporations have created “Americans for Ingredient Transparency” (AFIT), a front group lobbying for looser federal regulations on food ingredients ([14:21–14:43]).
• The effort is intended to override stricter state laws on ultra-processed foods:

  “They want to circumvent state sovereignty and get the FDA to have looser rules and basically supersede the states.” – Will ([14:44])

• Parallels are drawn to the pharmaceutical industry’s playbook:

  “Big Pharma mastered the business model... Big Food is like wait, can't we do that too?” – Dave ([15:35])

• Regulatory capture is seen as a direct threat to public health – framing the federal plan as a way to make it illegal for states to protect their citizens ([16:19], [19:27]).

---

3. Long COVID, POTS, Mold, and Biotoxin Illness: The Clinical Overlap

Topic Overview:
The heart of the episode connects pandemics, chronic illness, environmental toxicity, and genetics, offering both a systems-biology and practical lens on what’s making people sick.

Key Points:

• The explosion in “long COVID,” POTS (Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome), and mold-related illness share underlying immunological and genetic drivers ([23:27–27:05]).
• Main mechanism: Biotoxins (viruses, mold, parasites) and genetic variants (HLA haplotypes) interact to keep inflammation high ([23:42–25:29]).
• “Straw that broke the camel’s back” model – combinations of exposures (virus, vaccine, mold) create a perfect storm for susceptible individuals ([24:49]).
• Chronic, unresolved inflammation is the thread connecting all these syndromes ([27:05]).

---

4. Actionable Treatments: Mast Cells, Electrolytes, Creatine, and More

Topic Overview:
Dave and Will break down practical biohacks for managing POTS, long COVID, chronic fatigue, and mast cell activation, with a focus on low blood pressure/volume, histamine, and resilience protocols.

Key Recommendations:

• Electrolytes:
  • Dramatically increase sodium intake (up to 8g/day) for those with low blood pressure.
  • “If you follow the FDA recommendations for low sodium, it increases your risk of a heart attack.” – Dave ([33:13])
  • Use high-quality salts (Celtic sea salt), potassium, and magnesium ([34:12–35:13]).
• Creatine:
  • 10–20g daily to support cellular hydration, methylation, and cognitive function ([35:13]).
  • Absorption hack: dissolve creatine in hot coffee for increased uptake ([55:21]).
• Mast Cell Stabilizers:
  • Stinging nettle, quercetin, vitamin C, and diamine oxidase (DAO) as natural interventions ([29:57]).
  • Pharmaceutical combo: Claritin (H1 blocker) + Pepcid (H2 blocker) twice daily for symptom relief ([35:06–36:48]).
  • Mast cell “landmine” analogy: hypersensitive response to minor triggers ([30:51]).
• Cortisol & Adrenal Support:
  • Low cortisol is more deadly than high; judicious replacement (bioidentical or licorice root) can reverse brain fog and fatigue in critical cases ([40:26–43:10]).
  • Licorice root, methylene blue, and phosphatidylcholine as mitochondrial/adrenal support ([43:10]).

---

5. Methylation, Folic Acid, and Genetic Vulnerabilities

Topic Overview:
A nuanced discussion of the spectrum of methylation issues (esp. MTHFR variants) made worse by environmental toxins and synthetic folic acid, with real-world advice for supplementation.

Key Points:

• Synthetic folic acid (added to US grains) is toxic for 30–40% of people; folinic acid or methylfolate as safer alternatives ([51:20]).
• “The government puts it in grain in the US because they hate you.” – Dave ([51:20])
• Homocysteine as a key test for methylation status; thresholds in functional medicine ([54:19]).
• Trimethylglycine (TMG/betaine) and creatine as effective methyl donors that rarely cause side effects ([54:22–54:54]).
• Most people benefit from folinic acid, not methylfolate; practical advice to trial if formal testing isn’t available ([52:37]).

---

6. Nootropics, Nicotine, and Biohacking Odds & Ends

Topic Overview:
Side discussions on microdosed nicotine, methylene blue, and the appropriate use and risks of these and other cognitive enhancers.

Key Points:

• Pharmaceutical nicotine (non-smoking, low dose) shown to protect against Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s; 3–5mg oral daily for longevity and cognition ([46:56]).
• Nicotine is neuroprotective at low doses but highly addictive at high doses ([47:12–47:56]).
• Methylene blue is effective for certain mitochondrial issues, but cautions regarding MAOI interactions and psychedelic drug use ([43:54], [45:07]).
• The importance of context: not all health hacks are appropriate for everyone, and the details matter ([45:18]).

---

7. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Bold Quotes

• On Censorship & Narratives:

  "Anytime someone says misinformation, they're a coward. Something is either true or false." – Dave (00:02, 05:02)

  “The biggest purveyors of confusion in the world… are the people that overuse that word [misinformation].” – Will (05:08)

• On Industry Influence:

  “Big Food is going down the same thing and they're going to try to make it so it's illegal for a state to say you can't poison our people.” – Dave (16:19)

• On Sodium Guidelines:

  “If you follow the FDA recommendations for low sodium, it increases your risk of a heart attack.” – Dave (33:13)

  “If you want to live longer, eat more salt.” – Dave, quoting Dr. Michael Alderman (33:13)

• On Long COVID & Chronic Illnesses:

  "Most of these people just don't have enough blood in their brain..." – Dave (27:09)

  “On a lab, it looks very similar if they're not the same.” — Will on long COVID/mold/POTS (27:05)

• On Synthetic Folic Acid:

  “The government puts it in grain in the US because they hate you.” – Dave (51:20)

• On Nicotine:

  “Everyone who's 50 should be on 3 to 5 milligrams of oral nicotine. Not smoking, not vaping… The net benefit of that for longevity and cognitive performance is so large.” – Dave (47:12)

• On Use of AI to Expose Industry Actors:

  “We have AI… so you can’t hide the way you could last year or the year before... I’m looking right at you right now, so stop fucking around.” – Dave (57:11)

Lighter/Comic Moments

• Comparing social media bullies with blue hair to Australia’s “blue” venomous animals ([08:27]).
• Licensing biohacker humor around ordering prescription drugs from India ([41:52]).
• The “Danger Coffee” backstory and personal rebellion against the “it’s for your safety” narrative ([05:25–06:33]).

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:11] – Conspiracy theory origins; narrative control
• [14:21] – Industry lobbying, AFIT front group
• [23:27] – Long COVID, POTS, Mold illness commonalities
• [29:17] – Mast cell activation, histamine management
• [33:13] – Sodium, hypertension myths, and mortality
• [35:13] – Creatine protocol and hot coffee absorption hack
• [40:26] – Cortisol’s vital role and replacement strategies
• [51:20] – Methylation, folic acid toxicity, and practical supplementation
• [46:56, 47:12] – The case for low dose, non-smoking nicotine

---

Conclusion

Episode Takeaways:
Dave and Will deliver a candid, fiercely independent critique of the ways in which corporate and governmental alliances threaten public health, unmasking the mechanisms of control in food and medicine. Their conversation then translates into practical, actionable protocols for those suffering from the confluence of modern biotoxin-driven syndromes, with real-world hacks spanning electrolytes, methyl donors, antihistamines, creatine, cortisol, and even nicotine. Throughout, the tone is unfiltered, evidence-driven, often irreverent, and always aimed at empowering the individual listener.

Transcript

[Dave Asprey]

It was the CIA made it up.

As a term to discredit people who were playing out what they were doing. Anytime someone says misinformation, they're a coward. Something is either true or false. Science without conflict of interest.

[Will]

I mean, I saw a statistic somewhere like 70% of science done in the United States is funded by big Pharma. They know the answer they want to get.

[Dave Asprey]

They're happy to pay it because it's that profitable. So Big food's going on the same thing and they're going to try to make it. So it's illegal for a state to say you can't poison it. So if you follow the FDA recommendations for low sodium, it increases your risk of a heart attack. If you want to live longer, eat more. Again, it's that straightforward. I don't want to be sick. I want to be free. There's some danger there and that's okay. I'll manage it. You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey.

What if quantum physics could make your supplements work at a whole new level? Ignaton is the only company that quantum charges their clinical grade supplements. So they work better than the same ingredients without the charge. This isn't some woo woo idea. This is real physics with real results. University studies show Igniton's cognition formula improves memory, attention and mental performance more than the non charged version. And their longevity formula supports healthier aging markers like IL6, CRP and blood pressure better than the same ingredients without quantum charging. They do this with absolutely no fillers and no stimulants, just clean inputs carrying the same kind of life force energy that ancient cultures called world spirit. Think of what Google and Nvidia do for quantum computing. Ignaton does that for your biology. I spent time in their Colorado lab. I saw the tech, I used the supplements. In fact, I believe in it so much that I invested in the company. So if you're serious about living longer and having a brain that works better, this is for you. Go to ignaton.com and use code Dave for 15% off your first order. That's ign I t o n.com code Dave. Igniton. Born from light. Backed by science, Alcohol kills your sleep and ages your brain every time you drink it. If you want to relax and connect but still feel clear the next day, there's a better way. And that better way is Tru Kava kava. Calms your nervous system and enhances social connection by increasing gaba, dopamine and serotonin activity. In the South Pacific, they've used kava for over 3000 years for relaxed mental clarity, social connection and resilience, all while supporting brain health and longevity. I'm excited because Tru Kava just released their new instant powders. For the first time. You can get the authentic whole food kava experience in a clean mix and go sachet format. I travel with these powders because they actually deliver all of the relaxing social benefits I want without destroying my sleep score or metabolic health. If you want the relaxing effects of alcohol without the downsides, this is the Upgrade. Go to Trucava.com and use code DAVE10 for 10% off. That's T R U K-A-V A.com for 10% off.

Will, welcome back to the human upgrade.

[Will]

Thanks, man.

[Dave Asprey]

Good to see you, my friend.

[Will]

Likewise. Nice to see you. Last time we recorded, I think it was in your house.

[Dave Asprey]

It was, yeah. In Austin, and now we're in Australia.

[Will]

From Austin to Australia.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah. Both awards we've come, Right. Well, we're both here at the Wellspring event, which has been really, really fun. And I wanted to grab you while we have a studio because, you know, some stuff that's been circulating in my head and I talk about in little pieces, but maybe we can put it together for people. Yeah. And it's this connection between something called dysautonomia or POTS is a part of it, but there's also a big toxic mold component and even a long Covid component. And I think they're all tied together. And you're one of the few guys who I think could put this. Put this together so we can have a really good conversation about it. That helps a lot of people. But first, can we talk some conspiracy theories?

[Will]

That's. I mean, it's the best way to just break the ice.

[Dave Asprey]

Nice. Do you know where the word conspiracy theory came from?

[Will]

No. Tell me about this. The origins of it.

[Dave Asprey]

It was the CIA made it up as a term to discredit people who were pointing out what they were doing.

[Will]

Yeah, that makes sense. Knowing a little bit of the history of how that works, the sort of the manufacturing of narratives.

[Dave Asprey]

So what you just said there was misinformation. And like, that word itself is so insulting. Yeah. Oh, that's misinformation. Like, here's the deal. Something is either true or false. And if you actually know that the person knows something that they're not saying, that could be a lie. So those are the three valid words. True, false, right, or wrong.

[Will]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

And you're lying. Yeah. But anytime someone Says misinformation. They're a coward.

[Will]

Yeah. And it wasn't interesting. The past years, five, six years, the people that you overuse that word, misinformation the most are the most. The biggest purveyors of confusion in the world as far as sort of what's up is down. And it's down. Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

And it's so funny, all these things like we have to keep you safe from information. Yeah. Like, in fact, I've learned in my life, anytime someone tells me they're doing something for my safety that I don't want, that they're not acting in my best interests, that, in fact, that was why I named Danger Coffee. Danger Coffee. So someone can say, it's for your own safety, and I can say, I choose danger. Like, I literally. I don't want to be safe. I want to be free.

[Will]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

And there's some danger in there, and that's okay. I'll manage it.

[Will]

Yeah. And people are afraid of diversity of thought. I think that's. Hopefully that's. I think people are waking up to the fact that you can hear difference of opinions, have tolerance for it. Doesn't mean everything's for you. But you can pick the things you want. People are smarter. That and people. The people in power know this.

[Dave Asprey]

They act.

[Will]

The big people are stupid. But the reality is people are smart enough to be engaged and know as consumers or whatever, purveyors of consumers of information, what's right for them and what's not. I was actually in the room at the biohacking conference when you announced Danger Coffee. It was like, right, 20, 21 or.

[Dave Asprey]

I think so.

[Will]

Yeah, something like that. Yeah. Perfect. Perfect name for this time in history.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah. I was. The. The other reason is who knows what you might do? That kind of danger. Like, oh, my gosh.

[Will]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

Like I could do anything. Maybe something good.

[Will]

Right.

[Dave Asprey]

But it's. It's just kind of funny. So you're one of those guys who stood up and just spoke the truth when a lot of people told you not to. So thank you for.

[Will]

For likewise. Yeah. You did the same.

[Dave Asprey]

This is true. So did you get punched in the face with your social media and your reach and all that kind of stuff? Did they censor you? Yeah.

[Will]

Yeah. And at a certain point it's like, okay, I could keep silent, but I was tired of censoring myself. You know, I was tired of self censoring and realizing, you know, a lot of people, a lot of friends of mine in different spaces, Hollywood being a main one. It shocked me. When I started speaking up specifically around Maha and what Bobby was doing and find. Yeah look, you and I have been in the space for a long time time. It's like he was just speaking our language. We have not changed at all. And it was just finally people that got what we saw helped people.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah.

[Will]

When we see something help someone 10 hours a day for 16 plus years, 20 plus years, you want to share that with the world? Yeah, but because what we did and they liked it when it wasn't political. But the minute it was co opted within political system, the amount of people that I know in Hollywood or in that sort of world that disowned me and called me up and told me to take it down and I, I was, you know, basically what we were saying was dangerous and all those sort of these get back to that word dangerous. It was shocking to me how much they tried to silence me. You know, people that pro. That profess to be the most progressive and tolerant are the most regressive and intolerant.

[Dave Asprey]

One thing I've noticed here in Australia when an animal is like super poisonous it's usually got the color blue. Like the blue octopus is full of venom. And I realized during the pandemic that the most toxic humans oftentimes have blue hair. And they're doing that to warn us of the toxicity levels. Do you think that's medically valid?

[Will]

I would like to see a randomized control trial on that sort of subconscious decision to do that. But it certainly is eloquent convenient as far as the image of it.

[Dave Asprey]

That was a great dodge. The way you handle that politically was so good. I thought you were going to own all of the angry comments but now I have to own them all.

[Will]

Well, let me say this, okay, I'll own it. I'll own it. Let's go there. It is a very, very high percentage. And this can be cut out or not cut out but we can we. I think we should keep it in. But the not 100% across the board. So we don't want to overgeneralize too much. But there is a very high percentage of the meanest people on social media. The worst bullies on social media have a few things in common on their profiles and it involves things like their pronouns, it involves political jargon in their, in their, you know, X amount of characters that are let on there. It is a. The best thing I could describe it is sort of a fervent cult like religion almost where it is everything that they profess to hate in other people. Yeah. And it's the most illiberal. You know, I want to reclaim that word, liberal. I think you and I are pretty, I would say seriously liberal people. And they're anything but liberal.

[Dave Asprey]

They are.

[Will]

It is really neo Marxist. It is very authoritarian. I don't know the word for it.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah, it's, it's very strange to say you're what I am, but it's a psychological thing that's well documented in humans. Yeah. Like when you don't want to face the, the trauma or the ugliness or the hate that's inwardly directed, you direct it outward.

[Will]

And when they call, you know, some people call it the woke mob. It really is a mob like thing. And again that they, we need to reclaim these words. There's nothing conscious or woke about this movement. It is very asleep.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah. One of my favorite pandemic experiences was I made a post that said, look, as the author of a major book on fertility that's helped many, many people have babies who couldn't, I think it's unwise to inject anything in a pregnant woman, especially in the first trimester, unless it's for a clear, high risk, life threatening situation. And ideally it's well tested. And I didn't even name the certain injection that they were telling everyone to do. And a ob GYN of the mob went on Twitter and organized a mob to come and report my profile on Instagram. You can't organize a mob on Instagram because that's not okay. But she did it on two different services and my reach went way down. And her thing was this CIS white male is telling women what to do with their bodies. Now afterwards, unfortunately, it came out that women who received the COVID vaccine during pregnancy had an insanely high miscarriage rate in the double digits, like in the early trials, like 30%. So there are a whole bunch of dead babies as a result of this woman. And I don't regret saying that. And I would say it again. And the fact that she never even asked me whether I was CIS and just assumed it very much triggered me. Like how, how do you even live in that world? It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. So here's the deal. I will absolutely tell women what to do with their bodies. I won't force them to, but I will tell them, to the best of my knowledge, this is what will make you healthy and happy with good hormones and, and help you live longer and anything else that's beneficial. And I'm going to keep doing that and I have no problems with it. Also tell men, like, it doesn't matter. You have to listen to me, but I'll tell you, right?

[Will]

And if it's done in love, it's done in love. And, like, done like when, you know, I see what moves the needle in somebody's lab. So it is really, you know, we can placate and pander and, you know, give people sort of these lies. But the ultimate love is just tell people the truth, even if it's inconvenient, and tell people what you know works. Because if you care for them, you want them, and that doesn't mean you preach to them. It means you plant seeds sometimes and then move on. But I think, yeah, it is, it is the Orwellian upside down. George Orwell was prophetic.

[Dave Asprey]

You know, one of the things I never understood as a kid across the nation, every kid in public school had to read a certain set of books. You had to read Fahrenheit 451, you had to read 1984, these books. And part of this weird movement has been to remove these common stories that were prophetic and did identify risks if we went the wrong way. They took all those out and replaced them with, you know, Sally has two moms. Right. And I'm all about tolerance. I. I absolutely believe you should be able to sleep with whoever you want to sleep with. Marry whoever you want to marry. Like, that's your business. Right. I just want our kids to be. To be taught that there are values in society that have to do with freedom of thought and freedom of speech and that it's okay to say stupid things and to be wrong sometimes. Yeah. And my proof that it's okay to say stupid things is all politicians.

[Narrator]

Yeah.

[Will]

I mean, let them be. Let them be. Yeah, exactly. And it should apply to everybody else.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah, absolutely. All right, let's get into some medical stuff. I just wanted to chat with a fellow human being who.

[Will]

Well, did you hear about those front groups?

[Dave Asprey]

Oh, yeah, yeah, let's talk about that.

[Will]

Yeah. Okay, so this is what's happening with Maha and the move and the food movement is that massive big food titans like Coca Cola and Tyson and there are many other ones I posted about it. You can go check it out. They started this front group called Americans for Ingredient Transparency.

[Dave Asprey]

I love this.

[Will]

Afit. AFIT sounds great. Right. Because that's what we all want. We want ingredient transparency. But what they're pushing to do, this sort of lobbying group backed by Big Food, is to federalize this sort of protection, looser labeling of ultra processed foods, because you Know what's happening state by state, Texas being one of them, West Virginia being London, California being one of them, Utah being another one. They are coming with really stricter rules as far as ingredients, adult love, the human body back. So they want to kind of circumvent the state sovereignty and get the FDA to have looser rules and basically supersede the states. So it is, you know, corporate astroturfing to say the least. But I just wanted to raise awareness around that so people know there is some infiltration in the MAHA group.

[Dave Asprey]

Well, Big Pharma mastered the business model of making a federal law that makes your product really expensive and so people have no choice. Yeah. And Big Food is like wait, can't we do that too? If we can remove the right of individual states to protect their people and then we can bribe the federal government and wait, how many tens of billions of fines as Big Pharma paid for doing this? Heaps, I don't know, like a hundred billion dollars of fines and they're happy to pay it because it's that profitable. So Big Food's going down the same thing and they're going to try to make it so it's illegal for a state to say you can't poison our people and I hope they don't succeed.

You see it in the mirror. Wrinkles, sagging and old scars your skin care can't touch. What if you could get cosmetic surgery results at home without the pain, the risk or the downtime. The Lima laser switches your skin into youth mode. This is clinic grade cold laser technology now available at home. It penetrates deep into your skin and triggers repair at the cellular level, not just the surface. Watch your wrinkles, scars and pigmentation fade, all without stepping into a clinic. No surgery or injections necessary. Experts around the world trust and use this. I use this. If you're serious about changing how your skin looks and feels, this is the future. Go to Lima Life and use code DAVE10 for 10% off the Lima laser. That's L Y M a Life and use code DAVE10.

Your face is the first thing people see and you can work out clean. But if you still look older than you feel, especially if you're a guy, you're not maximizing your potential. Your skin is a signal of how well your really taking care of yourself. And if it looks inflamed or tired or just old, that's what people are going to notice. Even if you're doing your best to eat well. The good news is there's a company called Caldera Lab that's here to fix that for you. This isn't your girlfriend's 20 step routine. It's skincare designed specifically for men, which means it has to be simple and effective and backed by science. But not too much work. After using caldera lab products, 100% of men said their skin looks smoother and healthier and 97% said said they had improved hydration and texture. And 93% reported a more youthful appearance. Caldera Lab has spent years developing and testing each of their formulas with leading cosmetic chemists. So you can tell it actually works. And if they don't love it, they don't release it. Which is the same way I am with my own products. Some of the products you might want to try are the Good, which is a face serum that has 3.4 million antioxidant units per drop. There's the eye serum are peptides that make you look fully rested even when you stayed up all night doing something you wanted to do. And the base layer, which is a stem cell powered moisturizer that isn't going to give you pimples by clogging your pores. And all their products are cruelty free and plastic neutral. And for every product they sell, they pull the same amount of plastic from the environment, which is good because having little bits of plastic in your mitochondria actually sucks. So upgrade your routine with Caldera Lab and see the difference for yourself. Go to caldera lab.com Dave use code Dave and they'll give you 20% off your first order. So if you're not taking care of your skin because it's just been too much work, now you have a solution. Calderalab.com Dave One of the reasons that I moved to Texas when I moved back to the states from Canada, Texas is the only state that has its own gold reserves and has more guns than any other state. So they're ready to step out at any time. Like there's a unique Texas character. So whoever is running the federal whatever is trying to do that, I hope Texas just leaves. If you do that and there's.

It's.

[Will]

They've. There's always been groups that wanted to do that.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah, I'm not. I mean it sounds kind of crazy, but if you make it so that the law says that I have to be poisoned, then I'm going to have to leave the country again. And I'd rather not. I really like the US I was born here or the state that I live in has to leave the country. And I'm okay with that. Yeah.

[Will]

And I think that the reality is what we see in the media is, you wouldn't know it, but talking to people around the country and around the world, here in Australia, way more people get it than don't. And they. The purveyors of the people that are in trouble of the narrative that you see, largely, they don't want you to know that. But the reality is most people have woken up. And I think pandemic was a big catalyst for that.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah. Maybe they didn't predict that the unintended consequences. Yeah, they.

[Will]

Death protest too much woke people up.

[Dave Asprey]

The. The cancer rate they planned wasn't quite high enough. That that was their problem.

[Will]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

What do you think of the explosion of soft tissue cancers post pandemic?

[Will]

Yeah, I mean, look, I think this is why I'm excited about the people at the helm of hhs.

[Dave Asprey]

Oh, my gosh, I'm so happy. Yeah. Yeah.

[Will]

Because it's like if. And you know, if they could do all the things that they wanted to do, there's just so much corruption in the government. They're doing what they can, but there's so much pushback. So, yeah, let's let science without presupposition reign. Science without conflicts of interest. I mean, I saw a statistic somewhere like 70% of the science done in the United States is funded by big Pharma. I mean, they're asking the wrong questions because they. They know the answer they want to get.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah. And as I learned in. Well, in business school and computer science school, if you torture the data long enough, it will tell. And the best example of that ever, they're trying to find anything good to say about the COVID vaccine. And they found out that it's so traumatizing to your immune system that if you have advanced cancer, getting the COVID vaccine makes the cancer better. And so you read the Washington Post, saw it, they're saying, oh, look, it could help with cancer, guys. It. It actually causes cancer. And if you're about to die of cancer and you get the shot your cancer might get better, but there's a lot of better other ways to reduce your cancer risk or to reverse cancer when you have it. It's the dumbest thing ever. It's all over. So it's a psyop and it's a S up.

[Will]

And there are commercials. They're advertisements. Yeah. For an industry.

[Dave Asprey]

It's nuts. Well, rather than focusing on doom and gloom. Yeah. Thanks for letting all that on that, Dave. Sometimes we just have to talk about This I don't get real political on the show. I actually don't even. I don't even like politics.

[Will]

Yeah, well, and that's the thing. Back to what I was saying is like, this isn't politics for me. This is. I'm willing. We would all work or help or support or finance or in any way volunteer for anybody that would be progressing human health. And to me, this is a bipartisan. Health is a human issue. And it's so unfortunate that their brains broke and they couldn't come together around something that should be unifying.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah. End of the day, don't poison me. Don't steal my money. I'll pay my taxes. We can all be friends and it's not that hard.

[Will]

Live the life that God created you for.

[Dave Asprey]

There you go. Now, speaking of living the life that God created you for, we have a lot of people listening who have long Covid. And excuse me, the correct name for that is COVID vaccine injury. But some people call it long Covid. Now, some people are triggered by that and say, but I know a guy who got Covid and was really sick. The vast, vast, vast majority of people who got long Covid were vaccinated and got Covid. Very few people who just had Covid have long coveted.

[Will]

Mm.

[Dave Asprey]

So that's one thing. And there's been an explosion in people with very low blood pressure, which is called pots.

[Will]

Right.

[Dave Asprey]

And we've both been on the. The war path about mold for a long time. And for listeners, Moldymovie.com is a documentary I filmed totally free. It's a great film. And what's the common element between those three things?

[Will]

Yeah. So then we can go back to even like the first wave of COVID 19, which it was more virulent. I mean, we could go back to gain of function and why that was. And so this novel virus. But certainly there were people before the vaccine was out that had these responses because of this man. Human made human tinkered with virus that the human immune system wasn't used to, and it created a dysregulation of the neuroimmunoendocrine axis. And then it became more mild for more people as time went on. The human immune system thankfully did what it was created to do and adapted and the virus changed to. Yeah, that nature always wins. But I mean, the common thread between a lot of the things you were talking about are biotoxins, bacteria, virus, mold, parasites. So what I am seeing clinically and I look at labs all day long for the best 16 years. There's a very high percentage of these people that have, whether it be triggered from the vaccine or from the virus itself or from mold or something else is they have these different HLA haplotypes, these different human leukocyte antigens, these genes that are meant to help the immune system to regulate inflammation when it's exposed to a biotoxin. And their immune system isn't as good, so they're exposed to these biotoxins, and then the inflammation can't calm down. So this, that straw that broke the proverbial camel's back can be anything. It could be any type of thing. But it's oftentimes this perfect storm of variables where it's like what you see the tipping point. It could have been the vaccine, it could have been a mold exposure and a moldy helm. So it's not one thing for everybody, but it was.

[Dave Asprey]

It wasn't the Tylenol.

[Will]

It wasn't the Tylenol. Oh, we should talk about that. I should talk about that, too. Do we have the time? But, yeah. So I think the human. By a human microbiome, the human immune system can only handle so much. Yeah, Right.

[Dave Asprey]

And for listeners who don't know about the HLA haplotypes, there are certain genetics where, let's say that you're European. This isn't just in Europeans by any long shot, but it's just a great geographic example. You're a Viking. So for a thousand years, you've rode across the cold water, gone to another village, and you took an arrow. Your blood clotted quickly so that you didn't bleed to death. You ate all of their food and got all their germs, and you didn't get sick because your immune system was strong and reactive and your bile recirculates because there's not a lot of food some of the time when you don't have a village to rob. So that combination is really good for Mad Max. It's really good for the Dark Ages. Right, so it's a survival haplotype. Yeah. It's just not good when you have chronic exposures because now your blood is too sticky, your immune system is overactive, which creates inflammation. Yeah.

[Will]

Right.

[Dave Asprey]

And those are the people who are likely to have this effect. And so someone who has mold illness, which I had very, very strongly, and someone who has long Covid. They're dealing with exactly the same thing.

[Will]

Absolutely. On a lab, it looks very similar if they're not the same.

[Dave Asprey]

And you also get, in addition to the Chronic inflammation and all that stuff. Quite often, but not always, you get this POTS syndrome. And the first time I talked about it on the show was with Nick Foles, the Super bowl champion. His wife has pots and they've been public about it so I could talk about it. And I've had low blood pressure my entire life. It's a genetic thing, like really low blood pressure to the point that I've passed out quite a few times. And when I finally figured out what that was doing and why it was, let's say I grew up in a moldy basement. I had all the autoimmune stuff in combination with my genetics. I manage it. And I don't have symptoms of it anymore. Right. But it took a lot of biohacking to figure that one out. So I'm kind of an expert in pots and I've helped so many people. And when I see fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue and mold illness and some people call it Sears, which is like an old thing and low covet, I'm like, same thing. Most of these people just don't have enough blood in their brain. There's a lot of other stuff going on, but that's a fundamental thing. It makes it feel like, yeah. What do you do about it?

[Will]

Well, we have to deal with what's dysregulating the body first and foremost. So if it is a mold exposure or if it is spike proteins or reactivated chronic viral infection, because oftentimes the mold or the COVID virus will reactivate things like Epstein Barr virus, which is. People have it. I mean, 90 something percent of the people of the population have antibodies to Epstein Barr virus. It doesn't mean it's reactivated. But these people that have these haplotypes and methylations, part of that sort of confluence of genetic variables, I think I see it very highly clinically, is that we have to. Their immune system doesn't know how to calm down. So removing the source is paramount. If something's exposed to mold to support detoxification is paramount with this and then build resilience over time. So part of the sort of histamine component. I've seen great success with different mast cell stabilizers because a lot of these people have mast cell activation syndrome.

[Dave Asprey]

As part of. Talk about what that is, what are mast cells? What do they do?

[Will]

So mast cells are normal part of the immune system. They release histamines. And the problem is that these histamine intolerant people, these people that have this hypervigilant mast cell activation, their histamines are too high for too long and their body can't keep up with breaking it down. So they can have a deficiency of diamine oxidase, Dal, the enzyme that breaks down histamines. They could have a deficiency of that or just an excess of histamines, or both. So bringing in a lot of mast cell stabilizers while you're removing the source, you. You have to help them in the here and now. So involves having more electrolytes than they're used to.

[Dave Asprey]

Right. They're life changing.

[Will]

Life changing. So sodium dosed, you could start off low and slow, of course, but build up over time. And oftentimes for the more severe cases, it's significantly more sodium than they're used to having. And not just sodium, but potassium and magnesium. These are really important electrolytes for everybody. But the demand for these electrolytes are significantly higher for people that have this dysregulation of their nervous system, their immune system, and their endocrine system. So they're salty. These people are salty. And some mast cell stabilizers that I see great success with are a stinging nettle, quercetin, vitamin C, and sort of a combination of those with supplementing with diamine oxidase with the Al. So that, that's some of the initial steps that we would do and then build resilience over time.

[Dave Asprey]

I like to explain mast cells as landmines. They're there in the body and they're waiting for an invader. And they're supposed to explode when a tank rolls over them, but something makes them so sensitive that a puff of air sets them off. And then when one goes off, all the ones around it go off. And when they go off, they release histamine and a bunch of other inflammatory molecules. So you get these waves of that. You get a hot flush, you get hives, you get massive brain fog, you get GI upset, you get nausea, you get joint pain, migraines. Oh, migraines. Huge thing. And if this sounds like you and you're listening to this, okay, here's an easy test. Have some fish sauce or a lot of soy sauce. And if you hate your life within the next 24 hours, newsflash, you're sensitive to histamine because those are some of the highest histamine foods out there. Yeah, right. And when you realize that, or just eat three day leftover pork. Same thing. Cook fish, eat it two days later. And if it just knocks you on your ass, that's histamine. Yeah.

[Will]

Fermented food, sauerkraut, kimchi, These healthy foods, right. Otherwise, it's good for your gut. And they're being flared up by sauerkraut. Or even bone broth that's cooked for a long time can be higher. Histamine.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah. I have a hard time with bone broth. I mean, I kind of made collagen and bone broth famous.

[Will]

You made it a thing.

[Dave Asprey]

And properly turning on it, properly made bone broth, I love it. But sometimes you cook that for two weeks. Like, that's not. It's going to be way too much.

[Will]

You can make low histamine versions of. Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

So my protocol, when someone walks up to me on the street or maybe here at the conference and says, oh, my God, this is going on, I just say, do you have low blood pressure? And they go, how did you know? I'm like, because you have all the things. And here's the short Dave Asprey works for 80% of people. Okay, more sodium, like you said, and up to 8 grams a day for some people. And people like to say, oh, but my blood pressure, it's low already. But more importantly, when sodium levels are as low as the FDA recommends, right now, it's so low that it increases an enzyme called renin, which increases cardiac risk. So if you follow the FDA recommendations for low sodium, it increases your risk of a heart attack. And there's a guy named Michael Alderman, the former president of the American Hypertension Society. So this is a well credentialed physician who said, you know, there's a lot of really bad research on sodium that's asked people things like, how much sodium do you think you had yesterday? Let's write that down for a hundred thousand people, and then let's do science on it. That's not science. It's like lottery. So he measured urinary excretion in 3,000 people over three years to see how much sodium was actually being taken in and. And put out. End of the study. He summarized the results. If you want to live longer, eat more salt. Now, the first public talk about health I ever gave at the Longevity nonprofit that I used to run in Palo Alto was on sodium. Yeah. And just what a scam the low sodium thing is. So here's the deal. If you want salt, you have salt cravings. Satisfy them, and your life will be better. It's that straightforward. So if you're dizzy all the time, drink pickle juice the way your grandmother would, or get some salt, put it in water and drink it, and magically, your symptoms are gone, sometimes in five or 10 minutes.

[Will]

Yeah, I do. This one, I actually formulated it. It's a new line called Longevity Rx. I call it cellular hydration. It's a 1 to 1 sodium to potassium ratio. I want it to. I'll give you some. It's one to one sodium potassium ratio with magnesium from Whole Foods, using Celtic sea salt. Do you like Celtic sea salt?

[Dave Asprey]

I like Celtic sea salt. I actually know the woman who runs the company.

[Will]

Yes, great.

[Dave Asprey]

She's great.

[Will]

Great. So we use Celtic sea salt and we use celery and watermelon, a coconut water as well.

[Dave Asprey]

There you go.

[Will]

It's a great way to hydrate the body on a cellular level. Because a lot of the problem that I have a lot of electrolyte supplements out there is that they're using like cheap ingredients. I'm okay with it. From a gram standpoint.

[Dave Asprey]

Yep.

[Will]

It does the job. But it's not necessarily the best quality ingredient like these cheap sodium, these cheap salts. So I'd rather, much rather have it come from a nutrient rich source like Celtic sea salt.

[Dave Asprey]

So step one, if this is happening up your sodium dramatically, don't drink water unless it has electrolytes.

[Will]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

Ideally those who you talked about, sodium number one, magnesium and potassium. Yeah, gotta get those in. Number two, 10 to 20 grams of creatine. You just need to get hydration. And it is so important if you have brain fog or low blood pressure. Creatine, creatine, creatine. And then number three, you have to address these mast cells. And I've tried all the natural stuff. You can also use a black cumin seed oil. Most of the natural compounds don't work very well. And what you can do that is absolutely worth it if you are in crisis and you're just feeling like crap all the time is you take a Claritin and a Pepcid in the morning and at night. And the reason this works is Claritin is an H1 histamine blocker and Pepcid is an H2 histamine blocker. This is the primary inflammatory thing that your mast cells pump out. By blocking these things, you're doing this for about six months. You can taper off after that. It allows the mast cells in your body to just calm down and then they die and get refreshed naturally. And the new ones aren't freaked out all the time. And you can take all the natural things and I do, but that combination. So that's twice the normal recommended dose. Morning and night, 80% of people feel better. And after that there's a Whole bunch of pharmaceuticals and drugs for mast cell conditions that are really complex.

[Will]

And sometimes they're needed.

[Dave Asprey]

And absolutely, sometimes they're needed. The difference in quality of life for people who just turn off the histamine. So if you have long Covid, you probably should try that. It's electrolytes, it's creatine, and it's Pepcid and it's Claritin.

[Will]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

And I published that during the pandemic. And of course, I couldn't do it on any normal channel. It was only on my old telegram channel, which I probably should look at sometime. But, yeah, that has been life changing. The other thing that's missing from the conversation is the benefits of cortisol. Why is cortisol good for you?

[Will]

Yeah, I mean, look, we like to demonize things.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah.

[Will]

With our sort of black and white thinking. But God made cortisol. It's an endogenous immunosuppressant.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah.

[Will]

So there's a time and place for healthy, measured cortisol. Just like inflammation. Right. Inflammation's not inherently bad neither.

[Dave Asprey]

Good point.

[Will]

The human immune system, we would be goners as a species without proper appropriate inflammation response. So it is just subject cortisol, inflammation or bacteria, all subject to the Goldilocks principle. Right. Not too high, not too low. Just. Right. Good old Goldilocks. It's homeostasis. Right. Scientists call it that. The fairy tales call it Goldilocks, but it is. Yes. Cortisol is part of that. So being a natural anti inflammatory and endogenous immunosuppressant, we need it to regulate inflammation. So like a test that we would run in functional medicine, one of many. We would look at that HPA axis, that hypothalamic pituitary adrenal axis is how cortisol is fluctuating throughout the day. And it should be relatively high in the morning. Nice. S shaped slower in the evening, relatively to allow serotonin to convert into melatonin. If you have that proper deep restorative REM sleep and deep sleep. The problem is when you run that and someone has HPA axis dysregulation, which is part of this conversation, which with dysautonomia and chronic fatigue syndrome and a.

[Dave Asprey]

Lot of different Covid or mold will give you this.

[Will]

Exactly right. Whatever biotoxin is causing it, could be anything. You're going. One of the hallmarks from a lab standpoint is dysregulated cortisol. So you could look at the cortisol on the test in isolation and see it as bad. But the bigger question is why is that biochemical email, that hormone, being sent in that way? And the goal is not to suppress, necessarily suppress cortisol that's high or dysregulated, but it is asking why is that email being sent that way? Why is the neuroendocrine axis behaving in this way? So mold or the virus or some other trigger stress or trauma, like a mental, emotional, bad breakup. Yeah, yeah. What is causing that response? So there's obviously a time and place for adaptogens. I mean, I, I utilize them clinically, but the bigger goal is to figure out what is the upstream reason of why that's there in the first place. Because oftentimes when, when you deal with someone with, let's say, chronic fatigue syndrome or has these sort of other different autoimmune issues, you'll run the test and their cortisol is really, really low on a test.

[Dave Asprey]

Oh, yeah.

[Will]

And then they think, they say, I don't. I feel like my cortisol should be really high. I do not know why this test the way that it is, but it actually is showing that the body really cannot regulate inflammation at all. And it's part of this sort of neuroendocrine dysregulation and part of that conversation around electrolytes can be a tool within the toolbox to get that cortis appropriately up. So, yeah, it is things in wellness that will oftentimes paint as good or bad. But I think the context is lost here that, yes, chronically high cortisol isn't good, but chronically low cortisol isn't good either.

[Dave Asprey]

It's actually way more deadly to have low cortisol than high cortisol. Yeah, absolutely. Because your body can't fight infections and you have no resilience and you can't handle stress and you break down, you have something that wouldn't normally dysregulate you, you got nothing left. There's no gas in the tank with no cortisol.

[Will]

Yeah, well said.

[Dave Asprey]

And if your cortisol is low, the body will make more adrenaline and you're going to get panic attacks. Yeah, right. And that's not good either. What I've noticed is when people have low blood pressure as a result of long Covid or mold or any of these other biotoxin illnesses, if their cortisol is low, your body makes about 20 milligrams of cortisol in a normal day, more if it's a stressful day, heavy workout or something like that. So the biological replacement dose of cortisol is 20 milligrams and it lasts about six hours when you take it. So you can get a medication called Cortef, which is bioidentical cortisol, and you can take 5 milligrams four times a day if your body doesn't make any cortisol or if you're recovering from a serious illness, or maybe if you just flew to Australia and didn't want jet lag. 20 milligrams of cortisol taken four times a day and 5 milligrams per the first three days after you land. You will never have jet lag because your body was stressed, it couldn't make enough cortisol so you gave it a bump.

[Will]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

So I have seen thousands of people I've worked with, not as a doctor, I just tell them how to do it, then they talk to their doctors, they order drugs from India like any self respecting biohacker.

[Will]

I mean, who are you if you've never done that?

[Dave Asprey]

I mean, come on. Right, and what, what this can do if you're starting to get sick or if you have, have the worst brain fog. Today I've tried hydration, I've tried creatine, I've tried a cup of coffee, sometimes 5 milligrams of cortisol. If you're dealing with fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, that crippling brain fog, it turns everything back on.

[Will]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

I remember one time I was talking with someone who had mold exposure, had all the symptoms of this with her and her, her partner at dinner, and someone might have set 5 milligrams of Cortif on the table right in front of her, which is a prescription medication. So it wasn't me. And she took it and five minutes later she started crying and she said, oh my God. And she said my brain just turned on. I haven't felt my brain turn on in years. She was pegged low, very low cortisol all the time.

[Will]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

So you gotta look at your cortisol. I have no issues with people doing this. And before you maybe go straight to bioidentical cortisol, you could use licorice root.

[Will]

I was going to say licorice extract.

[Dave Asprey]

There you go.

[Will]

That, that is, you can come, it can come in a tea, it can come in a capsule powder.

[Dave Asprey]

And it's not DGL licorice, it's straight licorice.

[Will]

Yeah. So this is something with someone that has high blood pressure, would want to be mindful of because it is really effective at getting Cortisol up, which will influence your blood pressure. But yeah, licorice root extract, not dgl, but straight up licorice root is one. And then with that sort of mitochondria, I find that there's sort of stack work really well. Is licorice root extract, methylene blue. I'd like to get your thoughts on this. Licorice and methylene blue and phosphatidylcholine. Phosphatidylcholine, that sort of combination of working on the phospholipids, working on the cortisol with the licorice, and then working on mitochondrial. With methylene blue, I find people that are tanked out from a cortisol standpoint, really struggling with chronic fatigue syndrome. Those are three tools that we see great success with.

[Dave Asprey]

Methylene blue is an interesting compound. Yeah, I want to love it.

[Will]

Okay, so I've never heard you talk about it. What's your take on it?

[Dave Asprey]

I first tried it in old school longevity circles in the late 90s, we started looking at microdosing it. So I've been using it on and off for, good God, 20 years, 20 plus years now. And at the beginning, we didn't really know the right dosing, so we would go really, really low. And it absolutely works. If you have mitochondrial problems in the electron transport chain. Yeah, but most people don't know unless you've done advanced testing, how would you even know if you have that problem? So what concerns me is people say, well, I just took, you know, two dropper fulls of it. Relatively good as I feel really good, I must have a mitochondrial problem. Methylene blue is an antidepressant. Like, no, you didn't have a mitochondrial problem. You had a depression problem and you feel better. And methylene blue is not without risks. If you're into psychedelics because it's an MAO inhibitor. So if you're doing methylene blue because you're a good biohacker, and then you go to ayahuasca with some untrained pseudo shaman in the US which you should not do. Or you do MDMA or mushrooms. Yeah. You can actually have serotonin crisis because you're on methylene blue.

[Will]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

And no one talks about that.

[Will]

No, that's a great point. And I think that's. I'm coming at from a clinical setting where I know what our telehealth patients are doing. It's based on labs and that.

[Dave Asprey]

Because they tell you about their illegal drug use.

[Will]

Oh, absolutely. I. They're like family to me. So we Talk about all the things. Yeah. So the context around this, the setting of these things certainly matter. Yeah. Another nootropic, which I guess it's a hot button topic, which I've been in a sauna or two with you, I think, and microdosed nicotine. Are you still doing that these days? Are you pulling it out now? What are you talking about?

[Dave Asprey]

No, nicotine. I would never.

[Will]

Yeah, we also see great success with it.

[Dave Asprey]

Again, so good at low doses.

[Will]

Low doses. How you use it matters. So it could easily become overused and it's a, you know, addiction describes as a wellness practice. That's not what we. Right, like. Yeah, like holotropic.

[Dave Asprey]

No, just like breathing in general. If you stop doing it, you die. So you're good. Yeah. You can do it the same way. Yeah.

[Will]

How you use that neurotropic matters and we utilize it and we get heat for it. Like people, they think you shouldn't and look, there are other ways you don't have to use. Use it.

[Dave Asprey]

But I'm sorry, anyone who gives you heat about nicotine, they either don't read or they are like religious about something because.

[Will]

Yeah, maybe that's it.

[Dave Asprey]

Smoking is just bad for you. Everybody knows that. Right. So I've never smoked except for a couple cigars here and there, whatever. Right. Like maybe one every two years. I'm a heavy user. Right. Never smoked, but I use nicotine and I have four for more than 10 years because I interviewed Dr. Paul Newhouse from Vanderbilt University. I call him Dr. Nicotine and it's the first podcast he ever did about it. Yeah. He published a paper in 1986 showing that nicotine reverses Alzheimer's disease.

[Will]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

It's neuroprotective. In fact, it's good for you when it's pharmaceutical nicotine at low doses. Yeah. What I recommend, if you don't want Parkinson's and Alzheimer's and you like your metabolism to work and you want your brain to work, is up to five milligrams a day.

[Will]

Yeah. Three to five is a sweet spot.

[Dave Asprey]

Three to five is the spot. And maybe if it's a really big day, maybe you burst to 10, but you don't do that multiple days in a row. The reason for that is if you stop nicotine and you're at 5 milligrams, you'll have a three day washout period similar to stopping caffeine. But if you start getting habituated to larger doses and you try to quit, it's nasty. Yeah. Right. So that low dose sweet spot. Everyone who's 50 should be on 3 to 5 milligrams of oral nicotine. Not smoking, not vaping. Yeah. And unless you have some negative effect to it, the net benefit of that for longevity and cognitive performance is so large. Oh, and you might lose weight. Right.

[Will]

America has. It's going to hurt America.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah. So it, it's. Yeah, that's something that I do. And I've taken a lot of heat now. It's funny. Years ago, this unknown researcher of human performance came on my show. His name was Andrew Huberman.

[Will]

He's up and coming. You may have heard of him.

[Dave Asprey]

It was before he had a podcast. Yeah. Right. And so we talked about stuff like that. And just recently he's been talking about nicotine more and more. And finally, after like eight years, even in my books for longevity, I'm like, just, just a little bit of nicotine. Like, how dare you? And I'm like, how dare you say how dare you? You're not Greta, whatever your name is. And like, we don't get to play the how dare you game. I'll say anything I want as long as I think it's real. And if you don't like it and get a therapist. So nicotine just. The evidence is very strong for low dose is, I can say, 100%.

[Will]

There's so many exciting studies around it. So I think. Yeah, I think you're right onto something about the sort of religious aspect of it. I think that some people see it, they conflating it with cigarettes.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah. And it's just intellectually lazy. And like, you can say, I don't want to do it because I'm afraid I'll get addicted while you sip your coffee. Oh, sorry. I guess you have to quit that. Yeah, it just, it doesn't make sense. So there are some things where the benefits outweigh the risks. And coffee and pharmaceutical nicotine, there's so much evidence.

[Will]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

About the benefits. And the downside is much smaller than the benefits. So. Yeah.

[Will]

Well said.

[Dave Asprey]

Do those. Well said. You mentioned something else we haven't touched on and it's methylation. So I am a partner in a concierge longevity practice. It's for very high end offering. It's called unlimited life. And you have to. I think you have to type HTTPs in front of that. But unlimited life. And I do lab work now. I am an unlicensed biohacker. So I'm doing it with a physician named Dr. Tim Cook out of Toronto who has an advanced practice who works with very high net Worth people who fly their planes in. So this is the deep concierge medicine. So when we're sitting together reviewing labs and there's a whole coaching side of the program too, we can sit with the client and we're saying, is this an emotional issue? Is this like a shamanic issue? Is this a lab work issue? Is it longevity and like, what's wrong really going on in there? And we had our first 18 people come to the, the five day retreat in Ecuador in the middle of the jungle at a five star resort. It's. It was magical. And we're sitting there and of those 18, 16 of them, these are highly successful people in generally good health, just wanting to live a lot longer and to do the real stuff. 16 out of 18 had methylation issues they didn't know about. And none of them, except for one person, needed methylfolate. And if you're a biohacker, you know what I just said? But the basics of this is folic acid, which is a B vitamin that your body needs, is unfortunately an industrial form that's not found in nature and it's toxic to 30, 40% of people and it's not very beneficial for the rest. But the government puts it in grain in the US because they hate you. There's no other excuse for what they do to grain in the us so folic acid doesn't work very well. You can shoot all this down, by the way.

[Will]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

And then so there's two other forms you can get. One is called folinic acid, and the other one's called methylfolate. And depending on your genetics, you might need one of those too. But folinic acid is the furthest downstream that bypasses everything. And a lot of people who take methylfolate get muscle tension and anxiety from it. And so I'm looking back, my first book ever was a fertility book, the Better Baby Book. Such a great book. Thank you.

[Will]

I was just talking. You met my wife yesterday. That was our bible when we, our kids. Are you serious? Oh, yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

Oh, my God, that makes me so happy. Yeah.

[Will]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

In that book.

[Will]

And not a lot of people know about. I mean, it's been how long? 50s?

[Dave Asprey]

It was 2011. It came out.

[Will]

Yeah. Our daughter was two years old. Yeah. We used it. Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

And I, I said in that book, if you don't want to have autism in your kids, give them folinic acid. And just this year, studies are coming out saying folinic acid may be a treatment for autism. I'm like, really? Yeah. Don't it's not right. And so if 16 out of 18 highly successful people in unlimited life all need folinic acid and methylation is a major issue for people who have pots and long Covid and mold. Maybe if you're not going to run all the lab tests because you're saving money, you might want to try folinic acid and see what happens.

[Will]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

Do you agree?

[Will]

100%. Yeah. So back to the sort of autoimmune inflammation spectrum that we're seeing. The genetics haven't changed in 10,000 plus years. Right. But our world has changed so dramatically when you're putting that. So it's really this. The way that I see it is this lens of this epigenetic genetic mismatch, this evolutionary mismatch, which, you know, if it was just the folic acid, maybe it wouldn't be a problem. But it's all this other stuff we're exposed to. It's like something's got to give and it's, it's problematic. And when we're not eating folate and B12 from foods, we're not adding that nutrient density as a general like standard American, standard westerner. Yeah. So there's a very high percentage of these people that have a homozygous MTHFR gene variant at this, at the C677T which is just the location at that gene. So it's significantly depleting what that gene can do. The gene that makes an enzyme that's supposed to recycle do lots of things but donate these carbon hydrogen groups. One of the which is to recycle homocysteine down, which is why it's. I recommend everybody to get a homocysteine test which is an inflammation marker. It's a good surrogate lab if in a way it's a good way to get a win, get a glimpse into methylation in your body. Methylation is far more complex than just homocysteine metabolism, but it's an accessible test to be able to look at. Where is this inflammation marker homocysteine in functional medicine? We want to under 7 so folinic acid or folate, methylfolate if you tolerate IT, methylcobalamin, vitamin B6, even creatine plays a great role in these pathways too.

[Dave Asprey]

So there's one more that's worth mentioning.

[Will]

Tmg.

[Dave Asprey]

Tmg? Yeah. You know the tmg? I, you know me, that's something.

[Will]

Yeah, It's a great 90s hip hop.

[Dave Asprey]

Trimethyl glycine, you can just get little pills. 1.5 grams per day in a study had similar effects to creatine on improving muscle performance and increasing energy in people. So sometimes taking that because it's a methyl donor that doesn't cause side effects like the one, like the earlier ones on the list. I think that's something that you might consider if you're dealing with all these illnesses.

[Will]

Yeah, I agree with you. And what do you think about this, all the buzz around creatine? I think partly it's because of these brain benefits. It's the impact it has on methylation. And because it's so taxed in our world today, it's like, okay, the body's like, yes, I've got some. Some substrate, some gasoline to support methylation here.

[Dave Asprey]

We're almost to the end, but I want to talk about one creatine hack and then we'll wrap it up.

[Will]

Okay, let's go.

[Dave Asprey]

Okay. So you can get creatine nitrate. You get creatine hydrochloride. You get creatine monohydrate, which is the most studied. You can get GAA creatine, which is another form. And there's all kinds of companies selling all kinds of fancy versions. But there's an easy way to get your creatine levels way higher. When you have your hot coffee, ideally danger coffee in the morning, add creatine to it. The reason for this is that when you put creatine in a hot liquid like that, it goes into solutions that are suspension. It dissolves, not as floating particles. And the pharmacokinetics then means you get four times more absorption of the creatine and you get peak plasma levels that are much higher. So it can get into the brain much better. And there was one study in the early 90s of nine people that said, oh, no, creatine and coffee together didn't increase muscle strength. But two studies have come out since then that did not show that same effect. So I notice a huge difference. When I put creatine in my danger coffee, my first cup in the morning, I put my creatine in there. Because you're trying to get peak plasma levels high. Yeah. So put your creatine in your coffee and don't worry about the 1990s study.

[Will]

Yeah, I love that. I'll just try it.

[Dave Asprey]

Nice. Thank you for being one of the few humans where we could go into this kind of nerdy but really actionable kind of stuff. And also talk about the incredible, incredible insanity of big food companies trying to gaslight us and trying to control what the us does and Sadly, I don't understand this. The rest of the world tends to model its health regulations on the us like they didn't notice that we're the unhealthiest country in the world, right? So if I was running another country, I'd say let's just do the opposite of what the US does.

[Will]

Yes, just do the opposite.

[Dave Asprey]

You'll be right. So whatever sociopathic, narcissistic, highly damaged, small percentage of people who are running those things, we have AI and we can use it to figure out who you are, how much you got paid and where you live, even where your kids go to school. So you can't hide the way you could last year or the year before. Everybody will know what you're doing, and I'm looking right at you right now, so stop fucking around. Okay? God bless. See you next time on the Human Upgrade Podcast.

[Narrator]

A Human Upgrade, formerly Bulletproof Radio, was created and is hosted by Dave Asprey. The information contained in this podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended for the purposes of diagnosing, treating, curing, or preventing any disease. Before using any products referenced on the podcast, consult with your healthcare provider carefully read all labels and and heed all directions and cautions that accompany the products. Information found or received through the podcast should not be used in place of a consultation or advice from a healthcare provider. If you suspect you have a medical problem or should you have any healthcare questions, please promptly call or see your healthcare provider. This podcast, including Dave Asprey and the producers, disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information contained herein. Opinions of guests are their own and this podcast does not endorse or accept responsibility for statements made made by guests. This podcast does not make any representations or warranties about guest qualifications or credibility. This podcast may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products or services. Individuals on this podcast may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to herein. This podcast is owned by Bulletproof Media.