The Skin Mistakes That Age You Fast and Kill You Slow | Dr. Michael Christopher : 1485

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Skin Mistakes That Age You Fast and Kill You Slow | The Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey & Dr. Michael Christopher (Episode 1485)

Date: June 16, 2026
Host: Dave Asprey
Guest: Dr. Michael Christopher, Board-Certified Dermatologist

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Human Upgrade dives deep into the critical but often overlooked mistakes people make with their skin that can lead to accelerated aging and even deadly consequences. Dave Asprey is joined by Dr. Michael Christopher, a leading dermatologist known for his high melanoma detection rates and education on advanced skin examination techniques. They discuss the science of melanoma, flaws in current dermatology practice, biohacks for skin health, and the practical, evidence-based techniques to maximize longevity and resilience against skin cancer.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Insidious Threat of Melanoma

• Melanoma can be deadly, even for young people. Dr. Christopher shares stories of finding melanoma in patients as young as 21, highlighting how moles that appear “completely normal” can harbor serious danger.

  “I just found a melanoma on a 21-year-old patient on her cheek that looked like a normal mole. Completely normal, completely benign.”
  – Dr. Michael Christopher (00:00)

• Longevity Impact: Early detection is crucial—melanoma is the most lethal form of skin cancer, but highly curable in early stages:

  “When we look at skin cancer, it is definitely the most significant cause of death [among skin cancers]... if you look at stage 1 disease, the survival rate is like 99%. If you look at stage 3, you’re dropping down to 73, 74%. That’s a significant difference.”
  – Dr. Michael Christopher (26:45, 28:02)

2. Dermatoscopy: A Game-Changer in Skin Cancer Detection

• Low Adoption of Critical Tool: Dr. Christopher’s rare and systematic use of dermatoscopes (skin-scanning devices) enables him to find 10 times more melanomas than most of his peers.

  "Most dermatologists find about 17 to 20 melanomas a year. I, on average, find between 140 and 250."
  – Dr. Michael Christopher (05:24)

  “If you were to do your exam, every single spot, one of these little spots, I would march through one at a time...”
  – Dr. Michael Christopher (07:41)

• Issue of Training: Most dermatologists lack proper training with this tool, receiving “about two hours” during residency.

  “You’re expected to know it... but their knowledge was pretty low on dermoscopy.”
  – Dr. Michael Christopher (08:42)

• AI in Skin Exams: AI is under development, but may provide false reassurance due to current limitations.

  "The risk with AI is providing false reassurance on something that is not trainable yet.”
  – Dr. Michael Christopher (09:53)

• Actionable Advice: For optimal skin exams, patients should demand dermatoscopic exams, but proficiency among providers varies widely.

  “Call your dermatologist and say, do you do dermatoscopy?... But the problem is, most of them would say that they do... their proficiency is a big issue.”
  – Dr. Michael Christopher (10:54)

3. Sun Exposure: Myths, Realities, and Mitigation

• Dramatic Lifestyle Shifts and Rising Cancer Rates: Clothing trends and increased skin exposure over the past century have aggravated skin cancer rates.

  “We are all exposed to much more UV light than we were prior, and we suffered more significant sunburns because of that exposure.”
  – Dr. Michael Christopher (15:02)

• Burning vs. Tanning: Sunburn should always be avoided; moderate, controlled sun exposure is beneficial.

  “There’s a dose response and you should never get a sunburn. You should avoid that at all costs... if I’m outside and UV is 2 or less, it’s not a problem at all.”
  – Dr. Michael Christopher (20:48)

• Sunscreen Controversies: Prop 65 warnings point to potential carcinogens in many chemical sunscreens. Dr. Christopher recommends mineral-based sunscreens for safety and broad-spectrum protection.

  “Wear a mineral-based sunscreen – zinc oxide and titanium dioxide... Just use that, and your skin is protected from UV.”
  – Dr. Michael Christopher (29:07)

• Visible Light Can Also Darken Skin: Not all tanning or pigmentation is due to UV; visible light plays a role.

  “Your skin can actually get darker even if you wore sunscreen because visible light can cause your skin to darken.”
  – Dr. Michael Christopher (19:19 & 29:07)

4. Biohacks & Medical Interventions for Skin Health

• Melanotan Injections: Asprey injects Melanotan for tanning as a photoprotection hack; Dr. Christopher underscores the unknown long-term risks, especially relating to moles and melanoma vigilance.

  “Melanotan... can cause darkening of moles. If you had one dark mole, that was cancer, and now you have 100 dark moles that are just tan, it’s really hard for a dermatologist to spot them unless they have a dermatoscope.”
  – Dave Asprey & Dr. Michael Christopher (24:16)

• Retin-A (Tretinoin): Strongly endorsed for anti-aging and skin health. Proven to thicken skin and reduce wrinkles; even at the highest concentrations, initial irritation is normal and resolves with consistent use (8 weeks).

  “That is the number one thing you can use... Retin-A, it will make your skin thicker and have less wrinkles, and is helpful for pigmentation as well... I use it every night.”
  – Dr. Michael Christopher (33:14)

  “If you do it for eight weeks, even if I gave you 0.1 [the highest prescription strength], you would adjust and your skin would no longer be peeling after that period of time.”
  – Dr. Michael Christopher (35:07)

• Red Light Therapy and Lasers: Useful for skin rejuvenation, especially for those not seeking pharmaceuticals. Device and dose quality matter greatly.

  “Red light therapy can be helpful... but the device matters, the dose matters, and not all red light or near infrared light does the same thing.”
  – Dr. Michael Christopher (38:08, 38:22)

• Diet and Supplement Insights:

  • Omega-6 fats in diet can make you more prone to sunburn (21:19)
  • Oral collagen for skin health has limited evidence; better support for joints and cartilage.

  “Ligaments, tendons, cartilage, bones – strong data. For the skin, the literature is weak.”
  – Dr. Michael Christopher (39:55)

  • “Moisturizing from the inside out” (with stearic acid and healthy fats) can improve skin barrier and dryness.

  “Your fat intake can absolutely impact your skin barrier and its function and dryness, right. Without a doubt.”
  – Dr. Michael Christopher (44:16)

5. Other Skin Rejuvenation Trends Debunked or Qualified

• Snail Mucin: Hydrating, but no compelling science for anti-aging.

  “That can make the skin look more hydrated... Is it going to help? No.”
  – Dr. Michael Christopher (31:16)

• Tallow (Animal Fat Creams): Not particularly useful; concerns about spoilage and ease of use.

  “I don’t want to say avoid tallow, I just think there may be better, easier options.”
  – Dr. Michael Christopher (43:39)

• Treating "Extra Skin": After massive weight loss, only surgical removal is truly effective. Non-surgical methods have limited results.

  “Skin laxity is tough... There are skin-tightening therapies like radiofrequency... But number one is a good plastic surgeon.”
  – Dr. Michael Christopher (44:28)

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Advice & Practical Takeaways

How to Protect and Optimize Your Skin for Longevity

• Demand thorough, dermatoscope-aided skin exams from skilled providers. Frequency depends on family history and risk, but annual checks are wise if you have risk factors.
  (13:36, 13:59)

• Prioritize prevention:

  • Never get sunburned; manage exposure using UV index.
  • Use mineral sunscreens or protective clothing, and avoid chemical sunscreen with hormone-disrupting agents where possible.
  • Get some sun for vitamin D, especially in children, but avoid excessive exposure or tanning beds.

• For Parents:

  • Teach sun safety young; avoid burns.
  • Use physical barriers (hats, shirts) and safe sunscreen for kids.
  • Take early action on acne with evidence-based medication (Retin-A) to prevent lifelong scarring.
    (47:01)

• Biohacks with Caution:

  • Melanotan: Know the risks and stay vigilant for changes in moles.
  • Diet: Reduce omega-6s, consider collagen only if warranted, but focus on overall health.
  • Retin-A: Use nightly for transformative skin health, accepting temporary irritation as part of the adaptation.

• Don’t fall for expensive fad creams:

  • Evidence supports simple, proven agents (retinol, prescription tretinoin, red light therapy, lasers) over trendy “miracle” ingredients.

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• “Most dermatologists find about 17 to 20 melanomas a year. I, on average, find between 140 and 250.”
  – Dr. Michael Christopher (05:24)

• “There’s two reasons for the gap in the melanoma detection... they don’t use dermoscopy systematically, and they don’t actually understand the structures in the skin that make the spot melanoma.”
  – Dr. Michael Christopher (08:02)

• “If you want to live a long time, not getting skin cancer—or at least getting rid of it quickly—would be a really good thing for longevity.”
  – Dave Asprey (02:43)

• “If you do it [Retin-A] for eight weeks, even if I gave you 0.1 [highest strength], you would adjust and your skin would no longer be peeling after that period of time.”
  – Dr. Michael Christopher (35:07)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:00–04:44] – Dr. Christopher’s background; journey from homelessness to top dermatologist
• [05:09–10:54] – Dermatoscopy, melanoma detection rates, and training limitations
• [13:36–14:42] – How often to get a skin check; insurance and risk factors
• [14:42–16:05] – Historical trends in sun exposure and cancer rates
• [20:12–22:26] – Sun exposure, photoadaptation, dietary influences on skin
• [22:26–24:16] – Melanotan, biohacking, dermatologist perspective
• [28:02–28:55] – Melanoma prognosis by stage
• [29:07–30:55] – Sunscreen types; visible light and skin health
• [31:16–33:14] – Fad skincare products; Retin-A science
• [35:07–36:12] – How to apply and acclimate to Retin-A
• [38:08–39:55] – Red light therapy, laser devices
• [39:55–41:41] – Collagen supplementation; effectiveness for skin vs. joints
• [44:28–46:48] – Extra skin after weight loss; real solutions
• [47:01–48:44] – Skin care advice for parents and teens

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Closing Thoughts

Dr. Michael Christopher’s approach—combining systematic use of technology, rigorous training, and pragmatic biohacks—represents the future of skin health and longevity. If you value living longer and healthier, regular, skillful skin exams and a no-nonsense approach to skincare may save your life or keep you looking vital for decades to come.

“If you don’t get melanoma—or at least catch it early—it’s a really good thing for longevity.”
– Dave Asprey (02:43)

Follow Dr. Michael Christopher:
Instagram: @michaelchristophermd
Podcast Host: @dave.asprey

Transcript

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

I just found an melanoma on a 21 year old patient on her cheek that looked like a normal mole. Completely normal, completely benign.

[Dave Asprey]

So what is the impact on longevity of melanoma?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

It is definitely the most significant cause of death.

[Dave Asprey]

Most of the sunscreen that you see at the Pharmacy has a Prop 65 warning on it that says it likely causes cancer.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Your skin can actually get darker even if you wore sunscreen because visible light can cause your skin to darken.

[Dave Asprey]

What tells you if it's melanoma?

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[Dave Asprey]

not talking about wrinkles, although I guess we all don't want wrinkles. I'm talking about things like melanoma. And this matters because it's a really misunderstood kind of cancer. And my mother who passed away actually this year had melanoma. It's not what. What was the ultimate cause of her death, but it was a constant worry for her. Her dad had melanoma on his big. Because he got sunburned there a lot. Wait, no, you don't get sunburned on your big toe. Huh. It's almost like there might be some things about skin cancer that some of us understand that some don't. And Our guest is Dr. Michael Christopher, who's a top board certified dermatologist who has technology for detection of hundreds of different types of this in a way that's new and interesting. So if you want to live a long time not getting skin cancer or at least getting it and getting rid of it quickly would be a really good thing to do for longevity and so just like being happy and feeling good and all that. So, Michael, welcome to the show.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Thanks for having me.

[Dave Asprey]

Michael. My grandfather taught me something I want to just bet with you. He said, never trust a man with two first names. So is that. Is this Michael Christopher thing ever been a problem for you?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

It has not, but I heard that on numerous occasions. But I try to be very trustworthy and honest, so hopefully your audience will feel the same.

[Dave Asprey]

He actually didn't even say that. I just made it up.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

But I have heard it, though.

[Dave Asprey]

Have you really? That's.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

I have, yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

I just fear people remember Michael Christopher now.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

So. Yes.

[Dave Asprey]

There you go. All right. Now, one of the things that's interesting about you is you're pretty much almost homeless and became a top dermatologist. What happened?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yeah, so that is, I guess, a little bit more about my background. So tell you where this started initially. So I grew up in Chicago, Illinois. I moved out to Arizona when I was a teenager with my family, I grew up in a pretty dysfunctional household. I was homeless when I was around 14, 15 years of age. I actually don't have a high school diploma. I dropped out of high school.

[Dave Asprey]

Wow.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

I had to figure out how to exist and develop skills that were necessary to live. And in that time, I did a lot of random jobs. I sold furniture, delivered pizza, worked in a research lab, was a personal trainer. That's actually what kind of got me into medicine in the first place.

[Dave Asprey]

Interesting.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

And through there, went into medicine and fell in love with dermatology. That's where I am now. Okay.

[Dave Asprey]

The reason I wanted to have you on the show is because you're using this piece of tech you're going to, you're going to show us, but you're detecting about 150 to 200 melanomas a year. And your colleagues, I think, don't have quite as big of a hit rate. What's the difference?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yeah, that is very accurate. So I am in Arizona and in the state of Arizona, melanoma reporting is required, much like tuberculosis is required. And so we have very good state data showing the actual number of melanomas per dermatologist or dermatology provider. And for the last three years, I have found the most melanomas every year and roughly 10 times the normal rate. Most dermatologists find about 7 to 17 to 20 melanomas a year. And I on average find between 140 and 250 melanomas.

[Dave Asprey]

What's the difference? Like, what are you doing?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yeah, so correct. The thing that I am doing is I employ a tool called a dermatoscope, which is actually not new technology. It is just not utilized appropriately.

[Dave Asprey]

So I've never opened this. I won't break comments, but this is a dermatoscope.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

That is a dermatoscope, yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

What is it?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

So that is a handheld device like you see in your hand that utilizes magnification with polarized and non polarized light as well as a UV filter that allows you to see structures inside of the skin that you cannot see with your eye.

[Dave Asprey]

I want to look at my arm. Show me.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yeah. So for instance, can I step on over here? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if I come on over to you and I look at this little pigment that's on your arm, cannot tell you. So you see a dermatologist and they tell you that's fine. There's no way that I tell you that is actually okay. No, there's no way at all. It is impossible.

[Dave Asprey]

So there's guessing.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

They're, they, they are using antiquated technology, which is their eye. To say this is months ago, a sunspot.

[Dave Asprey]

Can you guys punch it on that? All right, got it. Little freckle. It's been there forever.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

A little freckle. It's been there forever. But without applying a dramatic to the skin and looking at the structures inside of it that, that you'll be able to tell what this is. Now the good news here is this is actually a suboretic keratosis. So that in itself can never turn into melanoma. It could develop into. It could develop a squamous cell carcinoma and situated inside of it, but not a melanoma. Most people would say, oh, that's either a mole or a freckle. And it is not. And, well, skin exams do not actually utilize this tool. And in the way that I utilize it is I put this scope. So if I were to do your

[Dave Asprey]

exam, every single spot, one of these

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

little spots, I would march through one at a time, usually with an alcohol swab in here, and I would wipe the surface of the skin so that I could see the structure.

[Dave Asprey]

And what. What tells you if it's melanoma?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

So, great question. Nothing. So it doesn't tell me it's melanoma. So there's no tool that does that yet. So there are some AI that is involved.

[Dave Asprey]

Okay.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

But you have to understand what those structures are that make that per se, not a mole. You have to understand what those structures look like underneath the microscope, underneath a dramatiscope. And that is really. There's two reasons for the gap in the linova detection, in my opinion. One is people don't use dermoscopy systematically, so they don't apply the tool on every spot on somebody's body. And then two, they don't actually understand the structures that are in the skin that make the spot melanoma, which, to me, that's a big deal.

[Dave Asprey]

It seems like if you study dermatology, they would teach you that.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

You would think, right. So for me, I finished residency in 2019, and I had about two hours of Dermosoma training or lecture during my residency. So nowhere near enough to become efficient. You're expected to know it and you're expected to understand it. But if you're attendings who. I had great attendings who were very good at many things, their knowledge was pretty low on dermoscopy. And that means that everybody moving forward, their knowledge is also gonna. We have to change that.

[Dave Asprey]

How much does a dermoscopy device cost?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

So that one is just under $2,000. And I know. And this is not something I sell, so I don't sell this equipment.

[Dave Asprey]

This is what you use in the clinic?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

This is what I use in the clinic. On a low end one, there are about four, five to 800 bucks.

[Dave Asprey]

And this is not for consumers at all.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

It is not. But you could buy it. So anybody could buy a dramatiscope and have it to look at spots on their skin.

[Dave Asprey]

So what Would stop me from making one of these clips on the back of my iPhone and goes right into an AI app that looks at structures in the skin.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

They have it. Oh, so they already have it.

[Dave Asprey]

Does it not work or what's the deal?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

It, in my opinion is the risk with AI is that providing false reassurance on something that is not trainable yet. So say we somebody has a structuralist melanoma on their body. And I actually was involved in publishing a study on AI and dermoscopy.

[Dave Asprey]

Oh, cool.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Data was good, but there was some stuff that it's just not trainable on yet. At some point maybe, but I would not want somebody to have an AI device put on their skin and that says, hey, this is completely benign, but it's say an invasive melanoma.

[Dave Asprey]

Okay, so it's not there yet, but

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

it might not get there yet. No.

[Dave Asprey]

That's fascinating. So I guess if people are going to go to a dermatologist and they are especially concerned about melanoma, maybe a family member or lots of sunburns as a kid, or frequent exposure to fluorescent and LED lights, which is more associated with melanoma than sun exposure without burn, which is everyone in an office, you might want to call your dermatologist and say, do you do dermatoscopy?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Correct. Yeah. But the problem with that is I do believe most of them would say that they do do it, but what is their actual proficiency with it? And I do think that that is a big issue prior to talking, trying to talk to the public, because I. My platform really has now switched to trying to educate the public that they require a dermatoscopic skin exam. Okay. And not just a skin exam. I tried teaching dermatologists solely. So for three years, all I did was post cases and try to show dermatologists, hey, do you understand what this content is? And I would post questions daily and the average correct answer is under 50%, 40%. But with those dermatologists say that they use dermoscopy, they were okay, which is. That's a flaw. Right. So you go in thinking you're getting a good skin check, but they are not recognizing what they're missing.

[Dave Asprey]

So what is a consumer to do? Like what's the answer?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

So I don't have an answer for that yet. That's the issue. Right. So I would say, like you said, call the office, see if they 1 you want them to use drmoscopy, that would be the first. But actually looking at structure and standardization, that is something that I'm trying To get the public to become aware of it so that the training changes because the standard has to change. And if that standard doesn't change, it's hard to get people not retro prospectively to start learning something that they didn't require, they weren't required to do or learn during residence.

[Dave Asprey]

Are you training doctors?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

I. Yes.

[Dave Asprey]

Okay, so you're doing physician training.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Good.

[Dave Asprey]

That's one of the most underrated things is most physicians I work with. Granted I'm biased because a bunch of them go to the biohacking conference.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

In fact, we have continuing education credits this year for our physicians at the biohacking.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Rock on, man. That is awesome.

[Dave Asprey]

And you have a lot of longevity people there and just looking for the future of enhancing lifespan instead of the recycled longevity content that you see at some of this older training. So they're eager for new information, new techniques versus, you know, recycling of hormone talk for the last 10 years.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yeah. And.

[Dave Asprey]

And so I love that you're doing that and there's a lot of physicians who listen to the show and I mean, what's your website for this stuff?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

So I honestly really my main platform as I post on Instagram.

[Dave Asprey]

Okay.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

You know, that's my main.

[Dave Asprey]

Michael Christopher. Okay.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

It's just Michael Christopher. I do go speak at, you know, national and state level conferences, but other than that I don't have a. I don't have something that's dedicated yet to teaching.

[Dave Asprey]

How often should people get a scan exam? Let's hope it's a good one. But what, how important is this?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

So I would say depending, there's a couple factors that are at play there. So looking at family history, significant. So if you have insurance wise, you'll be able to get a skin check if you have one vertical relative, that means mom, dad, a child or brother, sister who has a history of melanoma.

[Dave Asprey]

So what I'm hearing is if you'd like your insurance company to pay, tick the box that says you have one of those.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yes. Because this is a disclaimer. It's the age. Right. Because some insurance companies will say a full body skin check is not required in somebody who's 20 years old. Well, guess what? I just found an melanoma on a 21 year old patient on her cheek that looked like a normal mole.

[Podcast Disclaimer/Host Voice]

Look.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Completely normal, completely benign.

[Dave Asprey]

It's getting worse, isn't.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

I do actually believe incidence of melanoma is really increasing. And we can talk a bit about that. Yeah. Why? So my personal opinion on this is really related to sun related behaviors. Over the last hundred years. If you look at. I'd love to show you a cool photo.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

There was a study done on this that looked at the difference of sunbathing exposure. And there was a great photo. It was. I think it was from 1920 where they looked at how people went to the beach and how people went to the beach in 1920. They wore. Men had a full suit on. We're not even talking in the water. They would go sit on the beach in chairs, but they have a full suit on, a hat on. Women would be in a full dress. They'd have every area of their body covered. You'd see their heels, you'd see their hands, their neck and their face. And interestingly, if you look at some of the early literature in the 30s that looked at skin cancer and melanoma, where do they see it? Mostly the face. They saw it on the neck, but they weren't seeing it. There were some on the body, but the main areas that was prevalent were the sun exposed areas. And then what happened? The change in how we dressed occurred and people started going to the beach in full bathing suits. If you look at how somebody dresses now, compared to, say, the 50s, 60s and 70s, we are all exposed to much more UV light than we were prior, and we suffered more, I would say, more significant sunburns because of that exposure.

[Dave Asprey]

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[Dr. Michael Christopher]

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[Dave Asprey]

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[Dr. Michael Christopher]

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[Dave Asprey]

I'm planning to live to at least

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[Dave Asprey]

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[Dr. Michael Christopher]

So it could. Right. When we look at ozone in general, which really blocks out most of UV C. Right. That's what ozone removes. And thankfully it does because that is the most carcinogenic component of uv. But it could be, I mean that could be a proponent as well. But I do think that there's a good, there's a very strong correlation between uv. We have genetics that look at sequencing from UV lights causes cyclobutane pyrimidine dimers to form and that affects how your DNA is impacted. It creates injury there that your body tries to repair. So when we look at actual melanoma sequencing, we can see UV fingerprints into the melanoma path.

[Dave Asprey]

Wow. From what I've read, and I'm not a dermatologist, but I for 10 years have been running company that modifies light to affect biology. Yeah, there's probably an inverted U response curve for uvb. And what that means is that getting no ultraviolet B is probably bad for you and getting too much is bad for you. And whether you get it by itself or get it mixed in with other colors of light also matters. So it's. Should you be in the sun in the morning when the sun comes up, a little bit of uvb, which is beneficial and you get some other stuff probably. You're not opposed to that?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

I'm not, yeah. No, I think low. I think the key thing, what you just said, it's the. There's a dose response and you should never get a sunburn. You should avoid that at all costs. You should be very cognizant of high level uv. Right. So there are apps. You can look at your weather app and you see that UV is 6. You should really make sure that you have sunscreen on. Right. But uvs too, it doesn't matter. You're, you're. I don't, I don't wear sunscreen when the UV is 2 or less. And if I'm outside it's not a problem at all.

[Dave Asprey]

Now it's very, very difficult for me to go sunburn and I come from a but white family as they say, and northern European and a bunch of other European stuff. And you get sunburned just in 10 minutes. And when I put eating the omega 6 oils that actually only a few studies are associated, high levels of Omega 6 makes you more susceptible to oxidation and sunburn. And I take the astaxanthin and things like that. So I could go out in the middle of the Day for two hours with no shirt and get zero sunburn. Am I still at risk?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yeah. So that's tough, right? Because. So you're, what you're explaining to me is that you have photo adaptation and if somebody has photo adaptation, meaning that their pigment tone is darker and they are not getting burned, it would be difficult to prove that the injury is causing or is being caused at that point.

[Dave Asprey]

And it's, it's a conundrum because I know that zero sunshine is bad for you and there's, there's lots, it actually makes you near sighted and things. And anyone who's been locked indoors for a long time knows that that's just not good for them. And sunshine raises dopamine and there's a circadian thing. But the other thing I do, I inject melanotan.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yes.

[Dave Asprey]

The peptide that makes you tan, because a tan is good for you in terms of stopping sun damage. Right. As a dermatologist, do you hate biohackers like me who use melanin tan because we have more freckles?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

No. So that is a great question. I would say that melanitan is interesting, right, as a compound meant to act like melanocyte stimulating hormone, which is what

[Dave Asprey]

gives you a tan.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Which is what gives you a tan. The biggest issue probably is looking at purity, regulation of it. And then there are things that we just don't know. And one of those things that we don't know is what are the effects of activating melanocortin 1 receptor? Right. How does that work? Well, when we look at how melanotam works, or, you know, what we expect when we get UV light is melanocortin 1 stimulates the melanocytes to make more eumelanin or pheomelanin, depending on your skin pigment, and that it gets released to the surrounding keratinocytes and the melanocytes. And that is supposed to be your, your protection. One of the concerns when we simulate melanocortin one, though, is that when you look at melanoma cells in vitro and then in vivo in animal models, melanocortin 1 receptors can be chronically activated. And the problem with that is that chronic activation can lead to, say, growth. And when I look at that, it would have to be, I would have to, you'd have to be cautious knowing, say, family history and knowing risk what your own, like, mole pattern is. Because there's been some reports when you look at melanitan. And I think this is where the warning becomes for some people, the risks are. Well, some People, it's been reported they develop melanoma or darkening of their moles after they took melanitan. These are small, so we don't have great evidence against it. It's just, I think we need more information.

[Dave Asprey]

And the big risk with Melanitan is that it will darken balls. Right. So if you had one dark mole, that was cancer and now you have 100 dark moles that are just tan. Yeah. It's really hard for a dermatologist to spot them unless they have a dermascope.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yeah, it's true. They need to have it.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah. So then it becomes easier. It takes more time to look at all of them. I have found the well being from having a tan is, is pretty high. Like there's photoelectric effects from melanin. It does protect the skin from aging with moderate sun exposure. And it takes me 20 minutes to get a tan. Like, I, I normally tan with nothing on, but now I have security cameras and people around, so, like, I'll do with shorts. I haven't had a tan line in a long time. It took one tanning episode for 20 minutes when I injected Melanotan. And you get like a, a cognitive benefit from it too. But I think it's worth it in the biohacking stack. But I, I do worry, like, this wasn't as dark before I did that, but like I said, it's not cancer, so who cares?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

It's not cancerous. Who cares? You can leave that one be.

[Dave Asprey]

Okay, good deal. So I have this one right here. Okay.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

I'm happy, I'm happy to show you what a thorough skin exam looks like and so you can know what the difference is.

[Dave Asprey]

I imagine it's like everywhere on the body.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yeah. Well, it should be right at the patient's discretion. Right. Some people are not comfortable with that, but yeah, I mean, last year I found three melanomas on the butt. You know, what are you going to say? You know, if you don't look there, doesn't mean something can't appear there.

[Dave Asprey]

It seems crazy to not look at your butt. Given that thong swimsuits are pretty normal these days. I think that's probably an okay thing.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

One of the things at the very beginning of my longevity book is like, look, I live a long time, don't die. What are the four things that are going to kill you? Right. Cardiovascular disease, diabetes, Alzheimer's, and cancer. Turns out diabetes is a precursor to all of this when it comes to cancer. I didn't really stack rank cancers in terms of risk and this may be a little bit upsetting, but I don't worry that much about getting melanoma, even though it's in my family, because it's easy to cure if you find it early. Right. So in terms of like, benefits of the sun versus risks. But if the sun gave me pancreatic cancer, I'd be a little bit more worried. But even that we can detect in phase one now with a new biome test. So it's like you want to not get it, but you also don't want to, you know, live swaddled in bandages, hiding behind sunglasses. So what is the impact on longevity of melanoma?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Well, when we look at skin cancer, it is definitely the most significant cause of death. Right. When it comes to a skin cancer as a high risk mortality. Yeah. Of the three common. Right. Because there's other rare like Merkel cell carcinoma Jimmy Buffett died of. Right. Which is a rare. That's a very aggressive, rapidly growing tumor, which that is in people that develop Merkel cell carcinoma. It is heavily related UV exposure, but it's rare, very rare, uncommon. I see one every two years and I. I work in Tucson, Arizona.

[Dave Asprey]

Okay.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

And so there's a lot of UV there.

[Dave Asprey]

So worry about that one.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yeah. So, yeah, that's an unfortunate. Melanoma are the other s carcinoma, which actually has a similar related number of deaths as melanoma.

[Podcast Disclaimer/Host Voice]

Now.

[Dave Asprey]

I didn't know that.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yeah. But it is so much more prevalent. Right. So that is why people don't stress about it as much, because we can see it grow rapid, we cut it out, you're good to go. But if you have too much of that, there's spillage, and unfortunately that can lead to mortality. But melanoma, that is the more tricky one. Not very high incidence when it comes to cancer. Of the three skin cancers, basal squamous and melanoma, but has a much higher lethal rate. So we got to be very cognizant of that.

[Dave Asprey]

If someone catches a skin catch, we'll say melanoma at stage one versus stage three. What's the difference in survival?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Massive. Right. So, you know, if you look at the nccn, when they look at what are, what are the death rates for stage one disease, it is the survival rates like 99%. So it's great. Right. If you look at stage three, you're dropping down to, you know, 73, 74%. That's a significant difference. Right. And stage three incorporates, meaning it has now extended to the lymph node so once it's out of the skin, it can be much more challenging to tackle.

[Dave Asprey]

Why does melanoma spread so fast once it gets out?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Great question. I wish we knew that. In all honesty. It can move through your lymphatics. That is the main way that it does spread. And your lymphatics kind of drain everything back and throughout your body. So my assumption is that is why. But the, the, the speed at which it travels is actually not well known.

[Dave Asprey]

Okay. We just don't understand it.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

We don't understand it yet. Correct.

[Dave Asprey]

Most of the sunscreen that you see at the pharmacy has a Prop 65 warning on it that says it likely causes cancer. Can you explain?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yeah. So I, you know, I think the dose matters for anything. Right. This is too much water. I'm sure somebody said this 100 times. Too much water is toxic. And we know that. And too much of any chemical could be toxic if you want to avoid that risk. And this is also looking at, if you wanted to, if you wanted skin color, your skin can actually get darker even if you wore sunscreen because visible light can cause your skin to darken. But if you want to keep your skin protected, wear and don't want to worry about chemicals, wear a mineral based sunscreen which is really, we claim, inorganic and that is zinc oxide and titanium dioxide, which has very good coverage overall. And just use that in your skin. Actually through Opsin can actually pigment a little bit. My. We have a son who's a swimmer and we have him in sunscreen, but his skin tans because visible light can make the skin darker, but he's protected from uv.

[Dave Asprey]

It makes a lot of sense to use a mineral sunscreen. I would still do it after 10, 20 minutes. I feel like you want a little bit of that solar exposure for mitochondrial reasons. But if you're going to be out there swimming, surfing, or frankly, if you're going to be in an office every day underneath these LED lights that are not good for your skin either. Mineral sunscreen blocks all of it. So you can just put it on and I use it on occasion, but I just have a long sleeve shirt when I'm in the sun. So I take it off for a while and it's a little bit too much sun. Put it on and it's just. People complain so much on that can handle this linen shirt, one of those Indiana Jones hats to look cool like.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yeah, I mean, look, it's. Sunscreen is only part of the, the tool that we have to protect from skin cancer. Right?

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

You can Wear clothing, even more hats. You just have to be good about it.

[Dave Asprey]

One of the things that happens when you go into a dermatologist, all right, I want you to look at my moles and all that stuff. And then they try to sell you a $500 bottle of snail juice or something.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Right.

[Dave Asprey]

For your skin. So what's going on with that? Is it. Does any of that sort of stuff work?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Well, I will say that is not me, by the way. You come see me. That's not what you're getting. They're the snail mucin is. That you're talking about? I mean, that can make your skin. That can make the skin look more hydrated.

[Dave Asprey]

It's a Korean thing.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yeah. Is it going to help it? It's on. No. We have very simple things that work well. Tretinoin, Retin A. Retin A highly recommend it. Look, if you want to go through the basic science, we have histologic studies that show you thickness, meaning we did biopsies before the study was done. And then after treatment with Retin A, as well as retinol and showing that collagen becomes more plump, the epidermis actually thickens up. So people initially state they get irritation with Retin A, which everybody will. But the top layer of your skin, which is epidermis, that will actually get thicker with use. And so means it will get less irritating and irritated. That is the number one thing you can use. So if you don't see a dermatologist, get a prescription for Retin A. I mean, there's a ton of online options for that. You can get a retinol that is going to be helpful.

[Dave Asprey]

You know the history of Retin a

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

in the U.S. no, go and tell me. I don't know.

[Dave Asprey]

It's really fascinating. So somewhere around, If I'm remembering 1973, the company that made it realized it worked really well for wrinkles. And so they ran ad campaigns for it and they just, like, skyrocketed in sales. And then the regulators, like, wrinkles are not medical condition. And so they just got completely, you know, smacked in the face and kind of held down. And so they could only say it was for lightning dark spots, which is still what it's prescribed for. Right. And that's all regulatory nonsense. The reality was it did back then, and that was 1973. This was like 50 years ago. Right. They would have, like, photos in the newspaper. This half with Retin A, this half without. You can see the difference. And it's not about the color of the skin. It's about the aging of the skin. So I think retinol is one of the cheapest ways you can improve your complexion. Right.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

100%. And that is if you're looking for skin rejuvenation. And in addition to that, there are some benefits when it comes to potential keratin acidic atypia. So like actinic keratoses, which are a precursor to squamous cell carcinoma, it helps regulate the top layer of the skin, the epidermis, which is helpful. But if you're looking for the cheapest, simplest thing to do and you don't want to spend the money, a lot of money, or a lot of time, get retin a. It will make your skin thicker and it will make it have less wrinkles. It is helpful for pigmentation as well. I, I use it every night. It is one of the main pillars that I recommend for skin rejuvenation. For sure.

[Dave Asprey]

How old are you?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

I am 41.

[Dave Asprey]

Your skin looks really good.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Thanks, man.

[Dave Asprey]

You know, if you see a dermatologist with good skin, it's a really good sign.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

I, yeah, I, I hope that's the case. Yes, absolutely.

[Dave Asprey]

And if you see a doctor who's morbidly obese, it's a really bad sign unless the doctor can tell you why.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Dave Asprey]

Right, right.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

Now, what percentage of concentration of retin A should people be using?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

So if we're looking at just skin protective or the benefits of using the lowest tolerated amount, so 0.025. And for me personally, I use point one. And that's for most of my patients. Yeah, it's pretty strong. However, I will say this. As long as you do it for eight weeks every single night, don't listen to people tell you do it every other day or two times a week and tear up, your skin will stay irritated during that process. And most people will give up. That's a problem. They don't want to have irritated skin. If you do it for eight weeks, even if I gave you 0.1 right off the the, right out of the gates, you would adjust and your skin would no longer be peeling after that period of time.

[Dave Asprey]

Wow.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

But you have to get through it. And I will say this. Most people peel even at the lower percentages. So why not just use something that's a little bit higher concentration?

[Dave Asprey]

That's really pragmatic, like, all right, you're going to suffer. You might as well get there while you suffer. Okay, got it. It doesn't hurt or anything. What's the deal with sun exposure?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

If you're using Retin A, so you definitely want to make sure that you wash off your Retin A. So you put it on at night and then you wash it off in the morning because it is a photosensitizer. However, the longer you use it, your skin, that top layer, the epidermis, becomes thicker. So you do not have more sun irritation by using a Retin A.

[Dave Asprey]

Okay.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

It's just when you're initially starting it and if you leave it on the skin.

[Dave Asprey]

Okay. Do people put it on, like, the backs of their hands and their arms and all you absolutely could. Is there A, like, vitamin A toxicity you're going to get from that?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Not from topical. Yeah. So I tried actually to look this up because I'm implementing this on my own skin.

[Dave Asprey]

Okay.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

It's on my neck. I was looking at how much you can utilize in your body, and it is a lot. A lot.

[Dave Asprey]

Okay.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

Very cool. I usually buy mine in Mexico because I'm lazy or I order it from India because I'm also lazy.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

All right.

[Dave Asprey]

The whole idea of getting a prescription for medications is so 1990s.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

Like, you can get drugs and they're cheaper and faster, and I'm willing to pay for American drugs. I just don't want to take the time to argue about getting a prescription. It just seems lame.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

So it's like, sorry, anytime you go south of the borders, go into the store and tell them what you want, you buy. Seems a little bit restricted that you can get Retin a in the U.S. yeah.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

I definitely think that there's some things that do. Should require seeing a clinician for fentanyl or something. Well, I mean, fentanyl should not be being prescribed for people. Right. I mean, that's only. Yeah, yeah, right, Correct. So, like, there's a setting which not a prescription, that is a. This is administration. But there are things that are over the counter where, you know, they've looked at certain studies, like certain topical steroids in other countries where they have regulation on most drugs, but then they allow Instead of hydrocortisone, 1%, which does nothing, you know, allow, you know, 2.5% to be over the counter. You know, something so that it is more than nothing for the patient or things that are not causing harm. Tretinoin, you know, Retin A, have that noted with. With Retin A, the disclaimer here, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, you have to pay attention to that category. You wouldn't want to be using it, but other than that, yeah, it should be over the counter.

[Dave Asprey]

What are some of the other like really effective things you can put on your skin?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

That is challenging. Right. So when I look at that, that is my main thing that I recommend. There are some growth factors that have some potential evidence that are helpful, but I really look more for laser delivered medicine. Right. So like light therapy can be very helpful. Red light therapy can be, be helpful.

[Dave Asprey]

I helped to popularize red light therapy just in, in general starting 15 years ago and people thought it was nuts. And to CVS today, I'm not sure those devices are good, but certainly you can do stuff with red and infrared. That's incredible.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yeah. Oh, I think it's amazing stuff and I love that you hit on that in general. It's very helpful. But you just made a point that I think is important. The device matters. Yes. The dose matters. And some of it is just a scan because it's not administering real energy to your tissue. And not all red light or near infrared light does the same thing. Right. And the dose matters. And so you want to make sure if you're utilizing those tools to, and it all comes back down to the mitochondria. Right. So and how that functions, generating ATP, making that more efficient, nitrous oxide release and the device and the dosage matters.

[Dave Asprey]

Wow. You know, at the biohacking conference coming up [e-mail] in Austin, we have a variety of companies with really cool lasers that are, are just noticeably effective. And it's, it's just a whole different world when you realize, oh, the skin response to different colors of light, almost like the body responds to different types of food. Yeah, you can really do that. So you're a retin a and laser guy. Pretty much.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Pretty much. Those are my main things because, you know, recommending a specific moisturizer, some people, they have more oily skin. I don't, I hardly ever use a moisturizer. In all honesty, my skin is not dry. When I look at my skin quality and how it looks, I don't, if you don't, you don't need to use hyaluronic acid topically to make it look good. So you know, okay, those are the main things I use. Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

What about eating this weird protein called collagen that some strange guy made into a billion dollar industry.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

So I do take it, and I do take it based on the, the bone data, actually the joint data, that is the main thing. I do think that it personally, this is Probably, I know 15 years ago I started taking collagen because I thought that it was helpful based on a good study. So. But for the skin, it's. The literature is weak. It.

[Dave Asprey]

It depends on. On the type of collagen and whether it's in peptide form. And I was probably eight, nine years ago, this kind of crazy thing happened. I was at a speaking at a Tony Robbins event. And as afterwards I got off stage and this guy walks up and is like, oh, and starts chatting and he's just wearing, you know, kind of T shirt and shorts and. And just ask a lot of questions and. And looks me, oh, don't worry, I'm not a stalker. And he has me on his card. President of Sony tv. I'm like, oh, so we're still buddies. Hey, John. So he's no longer at Sony, and he says, is there any show. You know, I've always wanted to meet Dr. Oz. He goes, I got you. And so he calls him right there and he's gonna be in New York on Monday. So I end up meeting with Dr. Oz randomly, right? And I walk in, he's got two of his, like, clinicians, and people think, you know, he's a sales and he's a cardiothoracic surgeon. Brilliant guy. And he's got two, like, research people there going, well, so you want to come on the show and talk about collagen, prove it's any good. And I've, like, brought out all my medical knowledge and literature and talked about pathways and signaling. And the reality is collagen works in part because it tells the body the skin was injured or the bones were injured, which then causes them to transform. And then it provides the building blocks so they can transform, but it's the signal and the substrate. So we went through all this stuff, and after like 20 minutes, I think the two senior research people are like, all right, like, this is real, because there's a very high bar if we're talking about something. And you'd never know this unless you'd been on the show. It was incredibly well vetted. So he's, all right, we're filming tomorrow. And I'm like, what? How did this happen? And so I called my team, I'm like, buy me the baggiest pants at Lululemon that you can get because I have really big calves. And so I show up the next day because he wants to do push ups. And they were vegan sized. They were tights. And people were just trolling me, like, dave, you Wore tights on Dr. Oz. I'm like, dude, they weren't tights. I just have legs. Because I eat beef. And so, yeah, I Wore tights on Dr. Oz. But the collagen thing, to get past his internal review, like, I had to go for it. And what you're saying is very true. Ligaments and tendons, cartilage, bones. Strong data for skin. One type of collagen, the tripeptides that come from skin will signal. Oh, the body's like, well, if there's a lot of those, you must have an injury. Let's upregulate. And then hair growth is pretty good data for that, right?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah, it's interesting. And what about smearing collagen on your face?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

I don't do it. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Looking at how it'd be absorbed, you have to figure out how to get it trafficked in there. And so I think that it wouldn't do much.

[Dave Asprey]

There's one company I found who made a refrigerated mask where they took the cap off one end of the collagen molecule. So then you could put it on the face and it would be able to get in. But you have to ship you a cold mask, open it from the fridge and put on. It's like few people are going to do that.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yeah. For stuff to work, you know, across the board, it has to be easy to do. Right. And that's not.

[Dave Asprey]

What about this trend of putting tallow on your skin?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

So I think tallow is tough. I think spoilage could be an issue with, in particular, saturated fats in general. So depending on.

[Dave Asprey]

Wait, hold on. Saturated fats. They can't oxidize because they're saturated. Talk about, like bacterial stuff.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yes, correct.

[Dave Asprey]

Why are they worse than polyunsaturated?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Oh, I don't think it would be worse.

[Dave Asprey]

There's any kind of oil.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yes, correct.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah, got it.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Opposed to looking at, like, emollients, which are, say, a lipid. It's just a lipid rich environment. I think that that is where I would. I don't want to say avoid tallow. I just think that there may be better, easy options.

[Dave Asprey]

Certainly lotion's easier than tallow.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yes. It's not as greasy in general.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah. I do find that stearic acid seems to do something unusual, which is a primary fat in there, whether you eat it or you rub it on your skin. I did notice improvements more from eating it. It feels like, you know, moisturize from the inside out is not a bad strategy. And there's some evidence to support it for skin and lots for the liver. We know that.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Right. We Know that your, your fat intake can absolutely impact your, the skin barrier and its function and dryness. Right. Without a doubt.

[Dave Asprey]

What can people do for having extra skin? Like, you know, losing £100 kind of thing.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

That's tough. Yeah. So good work. Right? Thank you. Awesome. So when you look at that, skin laxity is tough. Right. If you look at, say, rubber band and if you pull it and it snaps. Yeah. It's the, that those elastic bands are broken. So it's tough to do. There are some skin tightening therapies like radio frequency, that can potentially have benefits. I think the number one thing really, it's knowing a good plastic surgeon who can remove excess skin laxity. Microneedling is an option, but RF is probably one of the stronger things that you can do modality wise.

[Dave Asprey]

Creates scar tissue under the skin, which you may not want later. But I, I did have a facial circumcision procedure. Yeah, it was, I didn't, I didn't know that. Yeah. Because I was obese. I had a piece of skin about the size of a passport cover each side of my face. So I had a lot of extra skin. Like there's a picture and like grabbing my cheeks and just pulling them out like a chipmunk. And they did great.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

I mean, it looks excellent. Would that never known. In all honesty, it looks great.

[Dave Asprey]

It came out really well. Thank you, stem cells. Thanks. My bud at rmi and I was just very public about. I'm like, one reason you shouldn't be obese is because the skin doesn't go away no matter how healthy you are. And I still have about half of a bath towel worth of extra skin just from the stretching. And no amount of longevity stuff will affect that once it's there. So unless we find some strange enzyme that causes your body to digest extra skin, which doesn't exist in the body today, I think that's a surgical thing.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

So I'd love to work on it if we can figure that out.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah. No kidding, right?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

I've thought about it a lot and all the techniques are fillers and things, but you can't fill a giant handful of skin from each side of your face. And some people are saying, dave, you got a facelift. And I'm like, okay, who cares?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

But bottom line is I am a leader in the longevity movement and the fact that I used to be obese. I'll just talk about the journey. And my favorite photo ever. Looks like I just got beat up by, you know, by thugs. My face is wrapped in bedrooms. I'm swollen. But like, this is the cost of obesity no one talks about.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

So I still have some on my butt. I don't know what to do about that. But I'm not vain enough to have butt surgery to remove the extra scan.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Yeah, I mean, there's little things that maybe they just don't matter as much. Right. You know, Exactly.

[Dave Asprey]

Oh, this is an interesting one. And you said you have a couple teenagers, right? Or preteens.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Right? Yeah. With one teen, one on his way.

[Dave Asprey]

All right, so what should parents do for their kids to have healthy skin starting really young?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

So I would, number one thing, obviously, as dermatologists, I want them to be good with sun protection. I think that's important from a longevity standpoint of reducing the risk of morbidity from non melanoma skin cancers. Right. Mortality from melanoma. But being good with sun protection is massive.

[Dave Asprey]

And then I'm going to add in there a little bit. So mineral sunscreen, if you're gonna use sunscreen or hats and all that, and it doesn't mean zero sun, they need vitamin D. You know, rickets is a thing.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Rickets is a thing.

[Dave Asprey]

So. So some sun, but no sunburns, you're saying?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

No sunburns at all. And if you want to use mineral based sunscreen, I want you to have sun protection. Like I said, UV index. Pay attention to that. That is very important.

[Dave Asprey]

And no, this is really important. No endocrine disruptors on your kids. And some of the really powerful sunscreens out there, they are not good on the hormones. And if you're a baby, your hormones are really important. So be extra cautious there. But again, skin protection. So I just had to add that in because I wrote a book on fertility. So what's next after sun protection?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

So then in all honesty, you know, it really comes down to at that age, I do think, and this is, I do. I mean, most of my work is with cancer and cancer screening. But I would say that, you know, acne can be stigmatizing for teenagers and scarring is permanent and it's difficult to treat. And so as a parent, you would want to make sure that if you see your kids starting to develop acne, treat it. And there's a lot of like retin A. I know we're talking about it for wrinkles, but it is a very effective treatment for acne. So make sure that you get on that for them because scars can last the rest of their life.

[Dave Asprey]

Beautiful advice, Michael. Christopher, thanks for talking about, like, the details. Right. And you have to do anything perfect for your skin, but not getting melanoma would be good, and then catching it early would be good. And your work in your field of getting people to just use the dermascope. Am I saying this right?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Dermatoscope, dermoscopy is the. The field.

[Dave Asprey]

I think it's really important. And I think you're working on an AI version of this, right?

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Well, it's already in play. There's multiple. Multiple companies. I publish a paper. Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

Cool. I feel like that's going to come along because end of the day, we want to be able to catch 90% of it with tech. And it doesn't mean you're safe. It just means that we screened a bunch of it, but that you really want to see a top expert.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Right, I agree. Yeah. Cool.

[Dave Asprey]

Well, thanks for your work. Is fascinating conversation and you've convinced me to continuously use the retin a that I occasionally smear on my face.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

I recommend using it absolutely. Every night if you can. Every single night. All right.

[Dave Asprey]

Thank you, sir.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

It's very nice to meet you. Thank you so much.

[Dave Asprey]

If you're interested in melanoma prevention and just in Michael's work, it's Michael Christopher MD on Instagram and all the other Graham things.

[Dr. Michael Christopher]

Right? Correct. Yeah.

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See you next time on the Human Upgrade Podcast.

[Podcast Disclaimer/Host Voice]

The Human Upgrade, formerly Bulletproof Radio, was created and is hosted by Dave Asprey. The information contained in this podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended for the purposes of diagnosing, treating, curing, or preventing any disease. Before using any products referenced on the podcast, consult with your healthcare provider carefully read all labels and heed all directions and cautions that accompany the products. Information found or received through the podcast should not be used in place of a consultation or advice from a healthcare provider. If you suspect you have a medical problem or should you have any healthcare questions, please promptly call or see your healthcare provider. This podcast, including Dave Asprey and the producers, disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information contained herein. Opinions of guests are their own and this podcast does not endorse or accept responsibility for statements made by guests. This podcast does not make any representations or warranties about guest qualifications or credibility. This podcast may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products or services. Individuals on this podcast may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to herein. This podcast is owned by Bulletproof Media.