Turn Off Your WiFi Tonight and See What Happens to Your Sleep : 1414

Summary

Podcast Summary: Turn Off Your WiFi Tonight and See What Happens to Your Sleep

The Human Upgrade: Biohacking for Longevity & Performance with Dave Asprey
Episode 1414 – February 12, 2026
Guests: Bon Charge Team (including co-founder Katie and another representative)

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Episode Overview

In this insightful episode, Dave Asprey sits down with Katie and a representative from Bon Charge, a company focused on EMF (Electromagnetic Field) mitigation and light-based biohacking tech, to discuss the invisible ways modern technology, particularly blue light and EMFs (like WiFi and 5G), affect human sleep, metabolic health, and overall performance. Together, they dissect the interplay between technology, human biology, and actionable biohacks—ranging from simple behavioral changes to high-tech solutions like red light therapy and PEMF.

Theme:
The biological impact of modern technology—especially blue light and EMFs—on sleep and well-being, and practical strategies to mitigate harm while maintaining the benefits of tech-driven lifestyles.

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Key Discussion Points

1. The Hidden Harms of Modern Technology

• Blue Light and Content Overload

  • Bon Charge Rep: “I just think that the blue light…that’s super damaging not only to our sleep and health and circadian rhythms, but also…just the amount of content we’re consuming as well is pretty dangerous.” (03:13)
  • Blue light not only disrupts sleep cycles but is tied to broader metabolic diseases.

• The Double-Edged Sword of Technology

  • Dave: “If you don't control your algorithms on social media, an evil dictator will.” (06:11)
  • Acknowledges the positive sides of technology but emphasizes awareness over fear; biohacking is about using knowledge and tools to combat these modern challenges.

2. EMFs and Biological Health

• 5G and Exponential EMF Increases

  • Bon Charge Rep: “Switching from 4G to 5G isn't just a little step up in EMF. It's a huge…exponential increase in the amount of energy we're receiving from a non-native EMF form into the body.” (11:04)
  • Effects aren’t always instantly noticeable but may be profound over time.

• Real-life Impact Stories

  • The Bon Charge team recounts suffering health issues in a high-EMF apartment, confirmed by a building biologist:
    • “Our bedroom is literally a microwave.” (14:40)
    • Moved homes after learning about high EMF exposure.

• Dave’s Personal Biohack

  • Dave: “I did a DEXA scan for bone density…right where the phone was is 15% lower bone density in my right femur versus the left and only in the middle of the femur where the phone sits.” (27:16)
  • Considers EMFs a measurable threat.

3. Biohacks to Minimize Harm

• Back-to-Basics Behavioral Changes

  • Katie: “Unplugging the WiFi at night is a huge one that we’ve seen massive improvements to our REM sleep from…” (13:31)
  • Use airplane mode or remove phones from bedrooms at night.

• Differentiating Native vs Non-Native EMFs

  • Katie: Nature’s EMFs (grounding) are beneficial; man-made EMFs are the problem (15:38).

• Critical Use of Technology

  • Encourage mindful data consumption and self-awareness—not giving up modern devices but hacking their impact.

4. Bon Charge Product Approaches

• Minimizing EMF Emission

  • Reducing EMF output in all their tech (e.g., sauna blankets).
    • Example: Bon Charge sauna blanket at 0.6 mG vs. competitors at 8+ mG. (23:38)

• EMF Mitigation Products

  • Laptop Mats: “Inside we’ve got EMF protection, four layer fabrics, basically made up of silver fabric, which blocks all the harmful radiation.” (24:38)
  • Anti-Radiation Air Tubes: Convert RF signals to acoustic, blocking EMF to the brain. (25:10)

5. Light Therapy Deep Dive

Blue Light Blocking

• Katie: “How a simple act of wearing a pair of glasses two to three hours before bed can dramatically impact your sleep.” (10:02)

Red and Infrared Light Therapy

• Mechanism:
  • Red light (630-660nm) for surface-level benefits—collagen, fine lines, wrinkles.
  • Near-infrared (>800nm) penetrates deeper—joint/muscle, mitochondrial support.

    “You shine that on the skin and it will stimulate fibroblast production, more collagen, smooth out fine lines and wrinkles… Then if you want to go deeper, you start to use…near infrared light…that penetration traits deep within the bone and the muscle.” (34:28)

• Personal Story:
  • Dave overcame severe whiplash rapidly using early red light therapy devices. (31:08-32:04)
• Safety and Efficacy:
  • “There's a certain point…you have this inverted U-shaped curve…The good thing about light therapy is…unless it's so hot that it's burning you, you're not going to harm yourself with too much red light.” (37:42)

Hair Growth Specifics

• Bon Charge study: “Just five minutes a day was what stimulated the hair follicle regrowth… No additional benefit” for more time. (42:06)
• Mythbusting: Doesn’t grow body hair, only scalp. (43:08)

6. Pulsed Electromagnetic Field (PEMF) Therapy

• PEMF for State Induction
  • Katie: “You can dial into beta waves, theta waves, alpha waves, or delta waves…For example…putting on the delta wave setting, it'll pulse that frequency into your body. After about 10, 15 minutes, your body will start to fall into that rhythmic pattern itself.” (44:46)
• Mechanism: Mimics grounding; induces states (relaxation, energy) via low-level electromagnetic pulses.
• Difference from Clinical PEMF: Clinical devices deliver much stronger pulses for direct muscle stimulation; Bon Charge focuses on gentle, state-guiding signals.
• Quartz Crystal Amplification:
  • “They amplify the effects of the PEMF that's been received because…areas in the world are very magnetic…and known for amplifying the effects.” (49:04)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Data Dogma:

  • Dave: “Anyone who has the basic ability to think knows eight glasses of water a day is for people who don't know how to think.” (08:25)

• On EMF Mitigation:

  • Katie: “Our bedroom is literally a microwave. That's how she described it.” (14:40)

• On Red Light Therapy:

  • Dave: “People…they're like, this crazy guy's like, put butter in coffee and shine a red light on your head because it activates your brain. I'm like, try it.” (32:05)

• On Empowerment and Technology:

  • Dave: “If I had to choose between a life that was 100 years with no mobile phone access… and a life that was 95 years with a mobile phone. I'll take the 95 years because I will have seen so many more friends and done so much more fun and cool and interesting stuff because there is actually value to this.” (21:44)

• On Biohacking Philosophy:

  • Dave: “I would say building more resilient humans by any means necessary is a really good strategy. So then we can use useful technologies.” (29:09)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Topic | Timestamp |
|-----------------------------------------------|-----------------|
| Dangers of Blue Light & Content Consumption | 00:06; 03:13 |
| Tech Stress, Misinformation, and Biohacking | 04:04; 06:11 |
| Differentiating Data Myths (water, steps, etc.) | 07:44–09:29 | | Blue Light Blocking and Behavioral Fixes | 10:02–10:59 | | Exponential Effects of 5G EMFs | 11:04 | | Apartment EMF Exposure/Personal Stories | 13:13–14:48 | | Practical EMF Mitigation (Unplug WiFi, Airplane) | 13:31 | | Native vs. Non-Native EMFs | 15:38 | | Bon Charge Sauna Blanket EMF Stats | 23:38 | | EMF Protective Products (Laptop Mats, Air Tubes) | 24:38–25:59 | | Dave’s Own Bone Density Loss | 27:16 | | Effects of EMF on Thyroid & Young People | 28:02–28:24 | | Red Light Therapy Science/Mechanisms | 34:28–36:41 | | Red Light and Athletic Performance Study | 39:02 | | Hair Growth & Red Light | 42:06–43:33 | | PEMF Therapy Explained | 44:15 | | Quartz Crystal & PEMF Amplification | 49:04 |

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Tone and Closing Remarks

The tone oscillates between serious inquiry and witty banter, with Dave’s trademark playful skepticism and the Bon Charge team’s expertise creating an accessible, data-driven conversation. The overall message: Don’t live in fear—become aware, use simple strategies, and employ thoughtfully designed tech to upgrade health amid a high-tech world.

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Core Takeaway

Turn off your WiFi at night and notice your sleep improve; combine ancestral wisdom with carefully vetted technology—and, most importantly, always stay curious and critical about the narratives you’re sold.

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For more on biohacking, sleep, EMF, and red light therapy protocols, visit Bon Charge or follow future episodes of The Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey.

Transcript

[Dave Asprey]

Out of all of the things happening in the world today, what is the single most damaging part of modern technology?

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Probably sounds like a cliche sort of answer, but I just think that the blue light, Dave, I really do. I think that's super damaging not only to our sleep and health and circadian rhythms, but also, I guess on the other side, the flip side, just the amount of content we're consuming as well is pretty dangerous.

[Dave Asprey]

And then we have the same thing happening with modern tech where, well, let's acknowledge that AI is causing brain rot and acknowledge that if you don't control your algorithms on social media, an evil dictator will.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

So, so simple. And things that we do day to day, come home after work, switch on our lights. How that simple flick of a switch is opening up a whole host of metabolic diseases and impacting our sleep.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Just understanding those a little bit more and how it works in terms of disrupting the energy within our body and within our cells and you know, just little simple things like switching from 4G to 5G isn't just a little step up in EMF. It's a huge, you know, exponential increase in the amount of energy we're receiving.

[Dave Asprey]

And then I did a for bone density and all that, and right where the phone was is 15% lower bone density, drowning out the natural synchronization signals of the planet and of humans with each other and just with all life. But if you block all of it, you're probably better off to have at least peace. You're listening to the human upgrade with Dave Asprey.

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[Dave Asprey]

Out of all of the things happening in the world today, what is the single most damaging part of modern technology?

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Well, I think it's. Again, this probably sounds like a cliche sort of answer, but I just think the blue light, Dave, I really do. I think that's super damaging not only to our sleep and health and circulation Canadian rhythms, but also I guess on the other side, the flip side, just the amount of content we're consuming as, as well is, is pretty dangerous. I think that there's so many different, different opinions out there and you know, which can be beneficial but also it's picking what's right for the individual as well. So I think there's a lot of confusion out there. But also the blue lights pretty good as well.

[Dave Asprey]

So you want more censorship, is that what I heard?

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

No, not more censorship. I think what, what I want is the people to consume information consciously, you.

[Dave Asprey]

Know, like the stuff you want them to see.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Well, no, not so much though. I want them to see what's going to work for them.

[Dave Asprey]

Oh, that the government wants them to. I'm confused.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Definitely not what the government wants. They want to go down that road. So it's what they need to see. That's what they need to see.

[Dave Asprey]

Got it. I'm partly teasing you. I'm trying to, you know, putting words in other people's mouths is my love language. So you did not advocate for censorship?

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Definitely not.

[Dave Asprey]

It's tough because we know that the poisoning content with manipulative things is bad for you and that creates stress. Yes, but I was totally expecting you to say EMFs.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Yeah, I mean there's so many expected though, isn't it? Expecting him to say that show a K for like go a different route there, I think.

[Dave Asprey]

Got it. So you don't think AI taking over the world is a problem?

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

I think that's also a problem. Definitely.

[Dave Asprey]

So you live in a state of fear.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

I don't want to live in a state of fear.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

State of mindfulness.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Yeah.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Listens to what's going on. I think it is probably a better way.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Yeah. But I think a lot of people are living the state of fear because of it. Definitely the manipulation from the media and from the feeding of information that perhaps is being forced into them and shaping their lives. But yeah, we definitely need to have more people that are more critical thinkers.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

More awareness.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

More awareness.

[Dave Asprey]

I totally agree. And it's so fun because I keep like misinterpreting what you're saying for fun and profit. I don't know, because it's funny, right? But there's a whole mass of problems with tech that are out there. And one of the reasons that I created the whole biohacking word was that I know what computer hackers do. Like, oh, there's a lot of problems with Microsoft Windows. Like, we don't know what's going on in there and people are breaking into it all the time and there's viruses. So why don't we just make our own operating system called Linux? And most of what we're doing today is based on that. So we could just know what's going on in there. So the idea of biohacking is like, well, let's know what's going on in here and let's see what we can do about it. And that means that opens the opportunity for things like red light therapy or other types of light therapy, or EMF mitigation or pulsed emf. So there's all these different things where if we just acknowledge that they're affecting us, then we can do something about it. And then we have the same thing happening with modern tech where, well, let's acknowledge, you know, that AI is causing brain rot and acknowledge that if you don't control your algorithms on social media, an evil dictator will.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

That's true.

[Dave Asprey]

And then they'll cook you with 5G.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Yeah, even true. Well, that's the thing you're saying it's the awareness again, isn't it? It's not a fear, it's being aware of it. And neuronal is an option to get out of it. Much like biohacking, you're aware of what's going on in your body because of the environment that you're in. But don't be feared by that because there are options to buy a hacky way out of it. So don't live in the state of fear like you were alluding to earlier. It is just being aware and addressing it.

[Dave Asprey]

And that's the idea with biohacking is okay, if we're not living in A cave or in a forest with all of mother Nature, which means you die by a parasite usually has. So that doesn't work very well, man. It's like no matter what you do. So you end up saying we get the benefits of modern technology and there's a lot like the ability to stay warm at night unless it's too warm and then your circadian rhythm is broken. But having access to data and to information and monitoring all this, it's. It's good and.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

And it could be found a healthy mindset. I think some people can become consumed by it and can live and breathe by. And forget to be human. I think there's a lot to be said for intuition and that gut feeling and understanding your own body without always needing data. I think data is very valuable and it has its place. We have the ability to use technology to harness data now. But let's not forget that we are human beings and at the root core of who we are, we know what we need.

[Dave Asprey]

Are you saying that we should like, honor our thirst instead of measuring every swallow to make sure we're drinking eight glasses of water a day?

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

I'm honest with you. I'm not sure that eight glasses a day is a set rule for everybody. We're all different.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Sizing. It's 2, 000 calories again, isn't it? That whole thing that doesn't really. Doesn't really make any sense.

[Dave Asprey]

I'm so glad you said that. No one ever says how big the glasses are.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Yes, good point.

[Dave Asprey]

Do you know who made up eight glasses of water a day? Avion.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

No.

[Dave Asprey]

In the early 90s. Marketing. It's all BS. There is no. Like, how could eight cups make any sense? You are a little bit of a different size than me. Yeah, right. And you sweat a lot and I know. I'm kidding. She actually does.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

I just knew me.

[Dave Asprey]

Right. Oh, and also you might have spent two hours in a sauna and I just had a cold plunge.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

And it's dumb. Anyone who has the basic ability to think knows eight glasses of water a day is for people who don't know how to think absolutely and safely.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

We would not have had eight glasses of water today. We don't have access to that level of water continuously throughout the day. So for us it's always been something we've questioned.

[Dave Asprey]

Well, I think questioning it is intelligent. In fact, most of the things they tell you. 10,000 steps a day. That was made up in the 1950s by a Japanese company that invented the first pedometer. There's no science for 10,000 steps a day. There never was. So we're programming these people to, say, drink eight glasses of water a day, even if you're diluting your electrolytes.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Yes.

[Dave Asprey]

Right. And then do 10,000 steps a day and you'll be healthy.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

But they're not even mentioning the quality of the water.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah, yeah. And it's. So we're in this. I don't actually believe in the word misinformation. The only time misinformation is real is if it's done maybe by, like a spy agency, like a propaganda campaign. But really, that's marketing. The people who invented propaganda came to the us, Renamed it to public relations.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

The same people looking at it.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

And that's from a documentary called Edward Barnays. So we're all sitting in this thing where we've been taught not to trust what our bodies do and that we don't know how to send the right signals into our body in order to get it to do what we want it to do. And some of the signals originally came from nature, but they're gone. And others we can amplify. And what's interesting with you guys is you're playing in a bunch of different fields around that. Out of all the different biohacks that you tried, what was the one that shocked you the most when you were getting Bon Charge started?

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

For me, it was obviously when we started the company, it was the blue light blocking glasses. How a simple act of wearing a pair of glasses two to three hours before bed can dramatically impact your sleep.

[Dave Asprey]

Got it.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Such a simple hack. And then when we went down the rabbit hole to learn more about how the body receives light. Light is information. Right. It tells us if it's day or night and allows you to control which hormones you release based on the information it's getting from the light cue and then learning the impact it has on the skin and how that can still impact your sleep and your body clock, and further understanding that the simple act of changing a light bulb could dramatically not just impact your sleep, your mood and your hormones, but how you look as well, and how dehydrate light can be. So that at its fundamental stage for me was an eye opener. Because they're so simple. So, so simple. And the things that we do day to day, come home after work, switch on our lights. How that simple flick of a switch got it is opening up a whole host of metabolic diseases and impacting our sleep. That was my.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Yeah, I think for me, and probably should have answered the first Question this way. But it would have been the emfs.

[Dave Asprey]

Oh, the emfs.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Okay, yeah, definitely. Just, just understanding those a little bit more and how it works in, in terms of, you know, the energy within our body and within our cells and, you know, just little simple things like switching from 4G to 5G isn't just a little step up in EMF, it's a huge, you know, exponential increase in the amount of energy we're receiving from a non native EMF form into the body. But then looking at ways to mitigate it and things not being as simple as just blocking it. You know, it's. If you're. I made a comment earlier about Faraday cages, like, fantastic, if you're having a Faraday cage over your bed. But what happens if EMF actually gets in there? It's actually more detrimental to you. So it's not always a simple fix as we think a lot more thought has to be put into it. So that's where I was sort of with EMFs.

[Dave Asprey]

I was a little skeptical at the beginning. This is late 90s when people started talking about this. I'm an engineer, I've worked in data centers and stuff. Doesn't seem to be a problem. We're not heating up the tissues, therefore there's not a thing. But then I met all of these health experts, including medical doctors who are saying, no, no, it's really a thing. And I started looking into the science and I was less skeptical, but I was still skeptical until I had coffee at the Red Rock Coffee and Mountain Views where a lot of tech startups ended up meeting. And this old guy who's probably in his 60s said, I've been wanting to meet you because you're in the longevity space. I'm the guy who invented 802.11b, the first wireless protocol. So this guy's the inventor of WI fi, right. And he says, I have a million dollars worth of test gear and we can see the most subtle fluctuations in electromagnetic fields. And one day I got bored, so I turned it around and put it at my body and look what I saw. And he turns his laptop around. No, it was like one of those three inch thick laptops. Becca turns it around and it looks basically like chakras because I'm pretty sure there's diagnostic data in here. Do you know how exciting this is? I'm starting to think this is believable.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

And you read things like the body electric and you realize, oh, we are electromagnetic beings and we're chemical beings. Right. You can, you can be Both. And we're also quantum underneath all that. So that means that we should be able to hack ourselves that way. We should be able to at least influence ourselves. And that explains a lot. Like, it is possible. So what do you do with Bon charge to mitigate EMFs? Because there's different strategies for this.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Yeah, absolutely. I think we developed a product line that helps mitigate some of it. But the thing is, as well, you've got to take free sort of fundamental hacks as well into your life, which is where you should get started with emf. Things like unplugging the WI fi at night is a huge one that we've seen massive improvements to our REM sleep from unplugging the WI fi. Having our phones on airplane mode before bed, sometimes not even having the phone in the bedroom. We.

[Dave Asprey]

Well, sometimes. Like, what is it like? Some nights you see people next to your bag.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Yeah. Sometimes we need an alarm. Like, majority of the time it's out, but sometimes there has to be an alarm to get us up if we have to be.

[Dave Asprey]

My phone's next to my bed every night. It's just an airplane mode. Seriously, like, it's a nice alarm clock.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

True.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Yeah. But looking at EMFs as well, we had the worst two years of our lives from a health perspective, living in an apartment. Absolutely horrendous. We had a building myologist come out to basically tell us exactly what we thought, that we're getting bombarded by emf. The amount of WI FI signals, even if we switched off our own modem that was coming in whilst we were sleeping, whilst we were being in the apartment, was really detrimental. We had 5G towers pointing directly into our bedroom.

[Dave Asprey]

Wow.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

It was disgusting.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

It was a microwave. Our bedroom is literally a microwave. That's how she described it.

[Dave Asprey]

I think that if they measured a lot of modern apartment buildings, it would be illegal to be there.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

True.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

Because you have neighbors on every side. Some of them have two WI FI routers and all these other things. And it adds up. All of the safety standards are. Well, you have one of these things and they make these assumptions. I don't know how anyone feels good surrounded by that much WI fi unless you literally wrap your bed in silver mesh and ground it out. That's what I would do if I lived in an apartment. I'd sleep in a Faraday cage. Did you guys do that?

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

No, we didn't. Because we actually had some controversial information on that that they said that you can actually be ungrounded by doing that. The advice that we had at the time was to not do that to our bedroom because we were on the third floor. And you can actually be disconnect from the ground. And that has its own host of problems that came from.

[Dave Asprey]

I'd rather be disconnected from the ground and not pumped by a WI fi.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

We just moved house.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

We solved.

[Dave Asprey]

That would be better.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

It's also differentiating between native and non native EMFs because a lot of EMFs are beneficial for us touching upon grounding like we just said, you know. And I think there's a lot of misunderstanding in the community when we use the word emfs. They can't differentiate between nature and man made. And that's the root cause is the issue is the man made elements.

[Dave Asprey]

It's basically a form of noise pollution. So I'm making EMFs right now and I'm actually hacking both of your nervous systems positively.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

I at least develop some skill here.

[Dave Asprey]

Once I get your crypto, I'll be okay. But really, we're all using EMFs and probably some other signaling protocols to influence other people. Right? We're designed to do that. And we're not supposed to see it because it. We don't need to see it because it's not logical. This is, you know, my heartbeat shifts and your heartbeat will shift in response to how stressed I am and things like that and vice versa. So there was a subtle dance and now there's a punk band playing and you can only hear that. And they're not even a very good one, unfortunately. And that's kind of what's going on with 5G, right?

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

It's true.

[Dave Asprey]

It's drowning out the natural synchronization signals of the planet and of humans with each other and just with all life. But if you block all of it, you're probably better off to have at least peace. But what would be better would be filter the bad and keep the good. So what's the bon charge approach to doing all this?

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Technology where you can harness the beneficial frequencies is my favorite modality. So things like PEMF therapy where you are using technology and emfs, but the positive frequency, so the delta waves, alpha waves, beta waves, theta waves, and then you're connecting with frequencies that are beneficial for you, as opposed to the four GS, five GS, Bluetooth and Wi fi that are disrupting our body and our biology.

[Dave Asprey]

Are you replacing nature with an electric signal?

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Absolutely. I know absolutely you are. For the people that can't get out in nature, nothing replaces nature. And I say that on everybody. It's always, you don't need any technology if you can get out in nature. The problem is we can't these days we're working our families, we're traveling, whatever it might be, we can't. We live in an apartment. Some people are in cities, they can't always get out with nature. So it's a hack.

[Dave Asprey]

And also if you live in a house, you don't live in nature, even if it's in the suburbs or something like that. And it always makes me a little bit crazy when people say, oh, just go out of nature. Like have you seen a city on the planet? There is no nature. Like go to Shanghai, go to Beijing, like go to Sao Paulo. There is not nature that is available. And if so it's four trees, that's Central Park.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

It's true, it's true. That's a reality and you have to face that reality. And then you do need hacks and you do need technology.

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[Dave Asprey]

So I'm a huge fan of supporting the ecosystem, restoring the soil, fixing the oceans, having clear sunlight and clean air and clean water. And I'm also going to be indoors a lot. So when I'm indoors I would like all of the benefits of being outdoors. Right. And having EMF mitigation is a part of that. So I think it's brilliant. If we can identify the most important parts of all of our environment and we can replay those for ourselves when we're not in it, then we can become a multi planetary species. You literally can't have a spaceship without knowing how to do this. And we don't know how to do it because we tell ourselves lies about oh, EMFs are just fine because we.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Don'T want to face the reality of a life without that technology. And a lot of people aren't prepared to spend the time self educating or absorbing the right level of information to learn to know how to overcome it easily. So it's easier to avoid the topic altogether and plead ignorance to it than do a bit of self education and learning that there's very simple hacks to overcome it.

[Dave Asprey]

It sort of drives me nuts. If I had to choose between a life that was 100 years with no mobile phone access whatsoever and a life that was 95 years with a mobile phone. I'll take the 95 years because I will have seen so many more friends and done so much more fun and cool and interesting stuff because there is actually value to this.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

It's connection though, isn't it?

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah, it's connection. So that said, I think we could probably engineer our phones to cause less biological harm if we would admit that it actually caused biological harm. But I'm still hearing you See, you like PEMF and you like replicating some signals, but this is not that scientific. So what are you making at Bon Charge? That does something good for emf.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Yeah. So we are, I guess on the pulsed electromagnetic field side. Katie spoken a little bit about that. But we're ensuring that our technology isn't emitting copious amounts of EMF as well, because it can be a double edged sword. You can be doing a lovely red light Therapy panel session. You know, maybe you're doing an infrared sauna blanket session because you can't get to a regular sauna. It's all about myth mitigating the EMS from those types of devices as well, because there's so many devices out there that people think they're doing good, which they are, by absorbing. Letting the cells absorb the red light therapy or the infrared, far infrared light for the detoxification protocols in sauna. But they're also sitting in another hotbed of emf. So at Bon Charge, we make sure all of our products are very, very low in harmful EMF and sometimes EMF free, where we can to ensure people aren't getting all the benefits of red light and then all the negative benefits of EMF radiation.

[Dave Asprey]

So if we look at the Bon Charge sauna blanket compared to average ones on the market, what's the percentage of lower EMFs that your products are likely to have? What's the worst one you've seen? And where is yours?

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

We've seen ones that go completely off the radar when you're testing them.

[Dave Asprey]

Is that like seven or eight off the radar? Give me some numbers here.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

We've seen.

[Dave Asprey]

Seen.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

We've seen one at around eight and a half, and ours is around 0.6.

[Dave Asprey]

Okay, so 0.6. What's the. What measure? What's the.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

That was in Milligauss MGS, I believe.

[Dave Asprey]

Okay, so yours is 0.6. The competitors were like 8 and change.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

We saw one at that. 8 and change. Yes.

[Dave Asprey]

So there's kind of a big difference.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Yeah, huge.

[Dave Asprey]

Okay, cool. And that is one of the reasons I like Bontrage is just that I know you guys are paying a lot of attention to that, and it's hard to do. So lower production of EMFs is one of the things you look for in your biohacking tech. Absolutely. And what are you doing for EMF mitigation?

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

For mitigation in terms of. In those products or within sort of general mitigation?

[Dave Asprey]

Don't you have some sort of. We do, yeah. You have products, ems. So, like, explain how those work, Right? Yeah, I know, because you sent me a bunch of them.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

I'm like, yeah, you want to know the science? How do these actually work?

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Absolutely. So we put in, like, we'll talk about a laptop map. That's the most popular.

[Dave Asprey]

That's what I was thinking of.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Yeah. So cool. And the one that we sent you and you loved. It's so simple to have. It's just literally a map, like a dinner mat that you put on your table. But inside we've got EMF protection, four layer fabrics, basically made up of silver fabric, which blocks all the harmful radiation. So Wi Fi, cellular networks, 5G, 4G, 4G Bluetooth. So when you've got your laptop on your lap, you're not absorbing all of that harmful EMF into that groin area into reproductive organs, which is probably the worst place to have it.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Another really popular product is our anti radiation air tubes. So we did some tests on actual wired headphones and you're still getting obviously the RF radiation passing through the ears. They're better than using Bluetooth headsets, of course, but you're still not 100% safe from EMFS using the wired ones. So with the air tubes, we put a little, a little regulator transformer within the top of these hollow air tubes, which turned the RF signal into an acoustic signal, which completely eradicated the EMF from going into the brain area. And that's the, like, you know, the. One of the most sensitive areas for EMF to go in is where all the brainwaves are happening, you know, apart from the reproductive organs as well. So those are two of our most popular EMF production products, I would say.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

So.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

The laptop mats are so important. I can't imagine putting a laptop on my lap without using a mat. It's just so dumb.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Of course it is. But even on the table, so many people don't realize it. The EMFs are passed through the table as well to your lap. So even if you're working at a desk.

[Dave Asprey]

Totally true.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Don't need it.

[Dave Asprey]

Well, at least you have some space with the desk.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

True.

[Dave Asprey]

Right, but. And my kids have never been allowed to put a laptop unless they have a pad because kids are even more sensitive to this.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Yes.

[Dave Asprey]

And I see these kids coming home from school and like their tablets right here, their laptops right here. And we wonder why testosterone is so low in young people. It's not just from emfs. There's a lot of chemical stuff and light stuff and all kinds of things, but I think it's a much bigger problem. And here's one of the reasons. I used to keep my mobile phone in a pocket on my right thigh. I just, I lived on a farm, so I just always wore cargo pants. Plus my style is pretty much extra pockets, extra straps that you don't need. It's just how it works. So anyway, I always kept it there. And then I did a DEXA scan for bone density and all that, and right where the phone was is 15% lower bone density in my right femur versus the left and only in the middle of the femur where the phone sits.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Wow.

[Dave Asprey]

And I'm like, this is a problem. It's a measurable problem. Right. And I don't hold the phone up to my head.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Good.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Never.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah. And now there's people in the audience here who are going, I saw you doing it. Now I'm going to confess to something. When I walk through a crowd, I wrote an S who I am. I put my phone on airplane mode and I hold it up to my head and I just say, release the Kraken. Release the Kraken over and over. And people think I'm talking to someone and then they let me go through.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

That's hilarious.

[Dave Asprey]

So, yeah, I was just saying I was making jokes about releasing the Kraken on Bill Gates the entire time I walked through. So. But if you see me with my phone by my head, I'm actually. It's on airplane mode.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

But you've now just divulged that. So everyone's going to watch.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Yeah. They'll be like, dave's not on his phone.

[Dave Asprey]

They will. And they'll say, I'm on a call.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

The other area as well that's a concern is the thyroid. People are holding their phones especially like you see it in Gen Z quite a lot. They're continually scrolling their phone and it's around this area so much. Not just the blue light that's on the impact, but the EMF on that sort of hormone hub is pretty, pretty detrimental as well. I think there'll be more and more studies come out of thyroid impacts with non native emf, especially from things.

[Dave Asprey]

So do you just never use wireless devices?

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Well, I think you just got to be smart about it. I think you just gotta limit the time you're using it. Can you use a wired Ethernet up desktop or laptop as opposed to scrolling for a phone? 90% of the time it's just limiting it. Right. You don't want to go. And we were saying earlier to Will Cole when we were on his show yesterday, it's more about finding ways to hack your environment, not giving up technology, not going and living in the middle of a field. Are you spending four hours a day scrolling? Can you get that down to three, two, one, half an hour? Are there certain times of the day that you can do it? Can you do it outside grounded? Would that be a little bit more beneficial for the individual? So it's just looking at ways that people can still enjoy that modern technology without Severely damaging their health.

[Dave Asprey]

I would say building more resilient humans by any means necessary is a really good strategy. So then we can use useful technologies.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Agree, agree.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah, like airplanes.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

Like, they're kind of useful, but they cook you with the image. They're not good for you. But I was just on one for 20 hours to get here. Gosh y how do you not feel bad when you do that? And there's a variety of things. One of them that really makes a difference is red light therapy. What are you doing with red light therapy now?

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

We've got a whole host of things happening with red light therapy. It's probably one of our biggest selling collections right now. I think the world is starting to tune into the benefits and the vast benefits that it offers at the different wavelengths, at the different frequencies. If we're talking about red or near infrared or far infrared, they all offer very different benefits. But I think there is a shift happening where people are understanding it's not just a beauty tool, because I think the beauty industry, although they were late adopters of red light technology, the fact that the beauty industry is so saturated and market quite heavily, it became known as an aesthetic product, whereas the world is starting to understand a bit more that it originated in the wellbeing industry. More for recovery, more for performance, more for optimizing sleep cellular energy. And there is a big shift that we're seeing happening, not globally. It's certain pockets around the world that understand it more than others. Unfortunately, Australia, we're finding, is one of the last to adopt it. They're slow on the uptick. The US much further ahead and in fact the Middle east, we did a big, big global red light therapy. Trend reports at the start of this year and the UAE in particular were leading the way with red light therapy. And it was as many as 70% of the people we surveyed regularly use it on a daily basis. And we surveyed about 7,000 people, so it wasn't a small segment. So it is starting to shift more back to where it originated, which is in the wellness space. Prior to that, obviously it was in the equestrian space rather than just the beauty industry that it's been known for.

[Dave Asprey]

More recently, I got into red light because late 20s, I got whiplash.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Right.

[Dave Asprey]

The first time I got it, someone drove into me at a stoplight and it took a year to heal. And I was in so much pain. My hands are always cold, they had headaches. I get it messed me up. And then a couple years later, I got hit go karting by someone who Couldn't read the. The sign. He didn't speak English well enough to understand, like, if the light's yellow, I mean, stop. So just wham. Did to me, and I had really bad whiplash. And a friend said, well, this isn't legal for humans yet. It's a red light therapy device for horses. It was a naturopath. And I put it on my neck, and in three minutes, I felt like three lightning bolts go up my back. It was like, what? And then my hands got warm and the muscles uncoiled, and I'm. I want one. And it was thousands of dollars. So I put on my Discover Card, back when people still use Discover Card. And I have been into red light therapy ever since because I just felt such a shift. And I was fine in two weeks with what would have been a year of suffering.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Phenomenal.

[Dave Asprey]

And people, when I first started talking about this in the biohacking world, they're like, this crazy guy's like, put butter in coffee and shine a red light on your head because it activates your brain. Brain. I'm like, try it. Yeah. And with infrared, which is part of what you guys do as well. There was a guy on a Yahoo group, which is basically Reddit before Reddit existed. He said, you know, I have all these problems with my brain. And I saw the one study showing the infrared light on a rat brain would penetrate the skull and then improve performance. He said, so I built one in a little pill bottle and I'm selling them. He sold 200 of them.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Them.

[Dave Asprey]

And he said, I did it down the midline of my brain and over a couple areas. He's like, my life has changed. I'm not depressed. Like, all kinds of powerful effects. So of course I had to have one. And I started using it. And for a while, it was one of my favorite tools because it just made my brain work. And then one day, he said, my brain is so good that I'm going to medical school. And he deleted the group, tried to remove all evidence of it, because he was really selling a medical product. Yeah, Right. And I still have that in a desk drawer somewhere. Wow. But the reason I really know that it works is I shined it right over the language processing part of my brain above the left ear. And of course, being a biohacker, I did four minutes, not two. And then I spoke in garbled words for about six hours. And since I made my money at the time talking about cloud computing, security on big stages, I was like, I just. Just myself. Okay, so ruined. But I just overstimulated that part of my brain. Yeah. It took me a while to recover, just a few hours and maybe it was good for me. But you can argue that it doesn't work. You can also argue PEMF doesn't work. I love the skeptics. Oh, let me put you on the high powered machine. We'll just put that right on your hip where it hurts the most and we'll turn it all the way up. And then when they jump up screaming, I'm like, it, it cannot work work. Therefore it doesn't hurt. Get back on there. Yeah, right. And at that point they have to face this idea that, that, that doesn't work because it can't work has nothing to do with whether it actually works. So I, I'm a huge fan of Right. Of light therapy. But what I've seen now is you can do it for skin. Yeah. You do it for hair, you do it for brain, you can do it for tissues. So how do you differentiate between those different uses of red light? Like what devices do you recommend where and how do we know where, know what to do in each location?

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Yeah, absolutely. Well, it all comes down to how the two different frequencies of light that is typically in red light therapy work. So you've got the, the surface level, sort of red visible light that you see when you put those panels on or the face mask or the hat, you'll start to see the red glow. That's the visible red lights, normally between 630 and 660nm for those that are interested. And that's some of the most studied wavelengths within red light therapy, the most bioactive. Now you shine that on the skin and it will stimulate fibroblast production, more collagen, smooth out fine lines and wrinkles. Great for that. What Katie was saying earlier, that aesthetic sort of appearance looking beauty, sort of industry, you see the face masks, the wands, those types of things. Then if you want to go deeper, you start to use something called near infrared light, which is also in the red light panels. Now that's an invisible frequency. You don't see it. It's 850 nanometers. Normally anything between 800 and 880 typically is okay. And that penetration traits deep within the bone and the muscle. And what that does is that starts to increase cellular energy, that mitochondrial level starts to free up more oxygen for cytochrome C oxidase to start making more efficient ATP. And that's then the process that starts to heal and repair joints and muscles. So what you do is you just pick a product that say you have an ailment, say you have a really sore knee, arthritis in your knee, or you have really sore muscles. After the gym you would look for some, something like a panel or a small handheld red light device that you can shine on that area. Maybe it's a strap, a wrap. Maybe you're just looking to improve the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles. So you would wear a face mask that's nice and close to the face as well. And if you want hair growth, you'd wear one of those sort of hair growth caps as well. But you've also got to look at the irradiance that's given out as well because you can't just have like a red light bulb because that also also glows at 650, 660 nanometers, but it's not enough power density within there. So you've got to go for the therapeutic wavelengths. You want to go for that, you know, muscle and joint pain. You want to be looking at 100 milliwatts per centimeter squared. The face, you can go lower because it's right against the skin, maybe 40, 50 milliwatts per centimeter squared. But we've also seen some studies, well, PhDs have seen some studies in, in our Sydney office where you can actually go a bit too high on irradiance as well. It can start to become a little bit more, more dangerous. So you don't want to.

[Dave Asprey]

What's the danger of having too bright of a red light?

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

I think it's more the, it's not the brightness, it's more that sort of power density and the overstimulation of cells from what, what they've reported.

[Dave Asprey]

What would happen if you overstimulated a cell with red light?

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

I think it's like you don't want to over energize, I guess the, the energy production system at all. You don't want to negatively impact it. I'd have to speak my PhD.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

I think you have to give the body time to process anything it receives, right? And there are some studies that show that you can actually do too much red light therapy, even irrespective of the radiance that the body needs to process.

[Dave Asprey]

What it's the body time to process things. You don't believe that you just push it harder and if you just keep pushing it really hard, it'll give up and it'll just surrender.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

I think sometimes the difference between men.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

And women say that's quite a masculine.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Women need to sort of nurture and slow down sometimes.

[Dave Asprey]

I'm just messing with you guys.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Okay?

[Dave Asprey]

Of course, of course.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

I'll let you all recovery.

[Dave Asprey]

You're like, you're so masculine. I'm like, it's funny. All the trolls don't say that.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

No.

[Dave Asprey]

So what I've seen in red light, and I've gone very deep on this for years, is that there's a certain point where for most things, even exercise, you have this inverted U shaped curve, which means if you don't do any, you get no results. And you start doing. You get results, results, results, and then there's an optimal amount, and then you're on the other side of the U. And then you keep. You do more, but you get less and less and less and less. And the good thing about light therapy is that unless it's so hot that it's burning you, you're not going to harm yourself with too much red light. You just don't get the benefits of it. Right, Right. So it's like red, good, good, good, good, good. And then you should stop. But it's hard to know exactly when to stop, which is why you have recommended usage levels. And you can usually do red light like three times a day, depending on the intensity and the length and all that kind of stuff. But I don't think there's any risk in any study I've ever seen that says red light therapy is going to actually harm you. The only risk I've seen is that it might stop working because you do it too much, which is different than, you know you're going to grow a mushroom out of your forehead. That's like more of a, of a Pfizer kind of a thing. Right. I've been making a lot of Pfizer jokes. I'm sorry, Bayer and Monsanto. I haven't been including you in my absolute lack of respect. I will do my best.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Hilarious. No, but you're right, I swear. I read a study where they were looking at athletes and some of them did it multiple times a day versus another group that did it once a day. And the people that did it multiple times a day actually had a decrease in performance. Now, I can't remember that study. I'll have to try and dig it out and send it through to you. I can find it. But I remember reading because we have so many studies sent to us to read through it. Can never remember all of them, but I remember that jumping out at me because I thought people that were doing it multiple times a day Actually performed weaker.

[Dave Asprey]

Weaker than people who did no light therapy.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

They did it once a day.

[Dave Asprey]

Oh, so once a day worked better than multiple times.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Multiple times, yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

It also depends on if they were looking at the infrared or the red side of it too.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Of course. Of course.

[Dave Asprey]

Right. And one of the problems here is most science is done in large groups of people. Right. And they go, we controlled for all variables. And I'm like, oh, really? What was the genetic makeup of the people? And like, well, we got like two white ones and two brown ones and two men and two women. I mean, good for you. What was the genetic makeup like? What was their comt gene like? We didn't run genetics. Well, I thought you controlled for all. Oh, you didn't control for anything. All right, well, let's, let's, let's go back. Was it a man or a woman who was administering the test? Like, well, we didn't, we didn't control for that. Like, oh, that's funny, because if a man feeds a mouse, it has a stress response, and if a woman feeds a mouse, it doesn't. I wonder if it's true. Like, there's all kinds of variables that we don't track. So every study, including all the red light therapy studies, are like, in this group of people, the average one person in the middle, that doesn't even exist. Right. So my advice to people doing red light therapy is do it once, and if you get good results, great, do it again. If you take good results, do it again. And if it stops working, you probably did too much. Because I would feel uncomfortable saying that for everyone you should only do it once a day or that it's bad to do it five times a day. Because there's probably five listeners who should be doing it multiple times a day. Yeah. And where are you when you do it? When I fly, I'm doing red light therapy sometimes for most of the flight because I'm mitigating the absolute crap environment that I'm in. And I notice much less jet lag. You know, your blood doesn't stick together as much when you have infrared light. So, like, there's this really big argument. So I would just say, you know, you have like, every form factor of light therapy there is at Bon charge. Maybe not everyone, but you've got all the different styles you'd want for someone who's, who's worried they're going to overuse it. Well, try overusing it because it's not going to hurt you. And then you'll know. Right. And so you can play around with it.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Exactly.

[Dave Asprey]

And I do find, like, morning and night, like, I'll use the red light cap morning and night, and I think that's all right. But I've never, you know, for two months done it, just one or the other. And I don't know. Do you guys have studies that. Have you conducted studies on proper duration of usage?

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

We haven't on our products personally, but we. For our red light cap, we have done.

[Dave Asprey]

Okay, what did you find? Because everyone wants to know about hair. Yeah.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

It's a big topic right now.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Well, we found, like, just in a nutshell, and I can send you the. The study to share in the show notes, but we found just five minutes a day was what stimulated the hair follicle regrowth. So that was.

[Dave Asprey]

It was 10 minutes less effective.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Just no. No additional benefit.

[Dave Asprey]

Okay, got it. So five minutes is all it took.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Yes.

[Dave Asprey]

Okay, now here's a question. I have the caveman gene that gives you much less back hair. And I want to have as much back hair as biolane, because that guy, he just looks like a sasquatch. And I feel like I'd be more manly if I could just be more like biolane, but not as angry and not as bullied in seventh grade. So if I take the Bon charge red light therapy. I'm so trying not to laugh. If I take the bon charge red light therapy and I put it. It on my back, could I grow more back hair?

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

You're thinking of the cap now and moving it apart your back.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

I want like a big. A big clump of back hair.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

I feel this. Yeah, this could be good. You need to give it a go.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Yeah, true. You could be out of study.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

An n equals 1. Let's do it.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

If you're open to it.

[Dave Asprey]

This is my sense of humor, which is uniquely American. But the real point here, I have never seen any evidence that red light therapy increases hair growth anywhere in the body except for on. On the. The head.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

You put it on your hair, but it's not going to give you, like, arm hair. Right. And that's important to know for everyone who's using red light therapy. So.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

And if you're in, like, a mustache competition, it's probably not going to help, but it might.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

No. Can you imagine people using our face mask and then all the women just getting sort of beards and.

[Dave Asprey]

I know, right? But people would worry about that. I'm just saying that there's no concern about that. That I've ever seen and correct in almost 20 years of light therapy. But it does grow hair like crazy.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Yeah, it does.

[Dave Asprey]

On the top of the head.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Absolutely.

[Dave Asprey]

And I think that's because on the head, one of the big reasons our hair gets weak is mitochondrial problems. And our body hair doesn't typically have that same lack of blood flow and the same bioenergetics. So we don't worry about that as much. So we talked about light therapy, different form factors, but PEMFs, how do you work with PEMF? Like, talk about the devices you make and what frequency ranges you use and just tell me how it works.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

So PEMF stands for Pulsed Electromagnetic Field Therapy. In case anybody isn't familiar with that.

[Dave Asprey]

Terminology, I should have done that myself.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

That's all right. We have it in a few different formats. Generally they tend to come in more of a matte format. It's something that you physically connect with.

[Dave Asprey]

So, like, not shiny, not because they're matte.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Oh, no, you're gonna keep getting me.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Oh, my word.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

You think I'd have picked up on these by now? Like, how long are we into flu?

[Dave Asprey]

20 hours. I had a modafinil. I had three cups of danger coffee. You just have to, you have to stick with me here. Okay?

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Okay, sorry. I'm just not picking it up, am I? I'm falling for it every time. Like straight in, over the edge. Okay, yes, in that yoga mat style format, different, very different sizes. But ultimately what it does is if we take it back to the fundamentals of the human biology, and I think you touched upon it earlier, that the body connects with the energy of the environment it's around. It always tries to mimic what it's receiving. And that's just the body's way of conserving energy. A lot of people feel it most when they walk into a room that's sort of high stress, like a busy supermarket. They walk into it so hectic, they start to feel. Quite a medium cafe for you, that. But it's been a nightmare. Yeah, exactly. That pent up feeling from that is exactly what I'm talking about. It's because your body's mimicking the energy of the environment around it. But you can use it to your advantage as well. If you connect with beneficial frequencies and pulse those into the body, then you can fall into that frequency state. And that's what a PEMF mat does. So you can dial into beta waves, theta waves, alpha waves, or delta waves in the mats that we have created to induce a certain state. So for example, if you were wanting to Optimize your sleep, or you were feeling a bit stressed and wanted to calm down, you would want to dial into more of a delta wave frequency. That's the frequency that your brain produces when you're in deep sleep. So if you lie on the mat, sit on the mat, or some people like to stretch on the PEMF mat, and putting on the delta wave setting, it'll pulse that frequency into your body. And after about 10, 15 minutes, your body will start to fall into that rhythmic pattern itself. So it's kind of inducing a certain state. Very, very similar to how grounding works. When you take your shoes and socks off, stand barefoot on the ground, you're connecting with the earth's magnetic human resonance, and then you fall into that rhythmic state. Connect with nature and your information reduces. But you can use other frequencies through a PEMF mat to induce a certain state.

[Dave Asprey]

So if I took a Bon Charge PMF mat.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Yep.

[Dave Asprey]

And I put it like under the sheets or maybe under the mattress of the bed of someone I didn't like, and I put it on, like the. Amplify me, like the high beta state, like for athletic stuff in the middle of the night, would they be unable to sleep?

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

It would probably disrupt their sleep. Yeah, it would. Yeah. You probably wouldn't want to put it under the mattress. You'd want them a bit closer.

[Dave Asprey]

I just don't want them to know. I don't want them to know it's there.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Yeah, they feel.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Probably. Probably you will feel it because sometimes it's dawned with crystals because, like quartz crystals amplifies the effect so they won't feel the bump. So dark.

[Dave Asprey]

It's not going to work. So my evil plan to take over the world by taking the evil people and making them not sleep, it's you just. You shovels in it.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Sorry, just going to go with the Netflix.

[Dave Asprey]

Going to order like 10,000 to send all the Pfizer executives.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Oh, maybe just start a new streaming channel and do what Netflix did and keep people hooked and stop them going to bed. And wasn't that their mission?

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah, that's right. You do that. And maybe like a TikTok type. Oh, wait, no, this has already been done. In the world of pmf, I look at kind of two buckets. There's PMF that's sending a signal to the body and that's what Bon Charge is making. Right. So you're saying go into this state. So it's a state control. And it also, I think, has some cellular strengthening and detox effects that are Subtle. Because it's a lower signal. And then on the flip side of it, there are very expensive clinical grade PMF machines that are so strong they're inducing the electrical current in cell membranes. So these are the ones that you put on. On someone's arm. And you've seen videos of me, my arms, like, twitching. Yeah, I'm not twitching the arm, it's getting twitched by that. So that's like a high intensity interval training kind of pmf.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Yes.

[Dave Asprey]

And what Bon Charge is doing is let's just gently use the signal to tell the body to move into a state. So if you can't chill out at night, you do that and you get sleep and you can recover faster from exercise and things like that.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Absolutely.

[Dave Asprey]

So a lot of people don't know that there's a difference there. And so what it looks like I have what I think, I think it's in my media room right now. Unless when they. The cleaning crew might have moved it. But it's usually in my media room. And it just looks like, like a yoga mat, but it's a little bit thicker and it has like some kind of bumps on the top of it.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Ridges. Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Asprey]

And they're full of crushed quartz crystals. Right. And strangely, the quartz crystals actually do make a difference.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Absolutely.

[Dave Asprey]

Why?

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

They amplify the effects of the PEMF that's been received because if you look at some of the areas in the world with high magnetism, like Ibiza, and I think there's areas in Mexico. Right. That are hard.

[Dave Asprey]

So you've been to Ibiza?

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

I have been to Ibiza.

[Dave Asprey]

Everyone who goes there says Ibiza. And everyone else is like, it's Ibiza. Like, why do you say Ibiza, British?

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Well, the Spanish way of saying it. The correct way.

[Dave Asprey]

I'm just teasing. All my friends are going, yes, it's Ibiza.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

But they have very high levels of quartz in their soil. And those areas in the world are very magnetic areas and are known for amplifying the effects. So it's just a way of boosting ultimately the effects of the PMF signals that you get.

[Dave Asprey]

And there are some people listening are going, that's such bs. I'm like, depending on how old you were when I was a little kid, my. They didn't sell them anymore. But like, I think my dad's generation or my grandfather's generation, you could order in the back of a magazine for a nickel or something. A little quartz crystal radio kit.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Oh, I've not heard.

[Dave Asprey]

And it's. It was a little quartz crystal and a little copper thing and you'd wind it around. We use those crystals and so magnets and copper coils and quartz crystals are fundamental to most of the electronics we use today. So there is a mechanism action for it. So guys, we're coming to the end of the show because we're here at Wanderlust Wellspring in Australia. And thanks for taking time out of a busy show to talk about red light therapy and PMF and how to mitigate the unnatural EMFs with me. And I appreciate it.

[Katie (Bon Charge co-founder or expert)]

Thank you so much. Thanks for your time.

[Bon Charge Representative (possibly a co-founder or expert)]

Yeah, exactly. You're super busy. And yeah, finding the time to speak to us is really, really amazing.

[Dave Asprey]

You got it. And guys, always get your discount. It's boncharge.com use code Dave save 15% say you want some red light, you want some PMFs, go for it. See you next time on the Human Upgrade Podcast.

[Podcast Disclaimer Narrator]

The Human Upgrade, formerly Bulletproof Radio, was created and is hosted by Dave Aspen. The information contained in this podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended for the purposes of diagnosing, treating, curing, or preventing any disease. Before using any products referenced on the podcast, consult with your healthcare provider carefully read all labels and heed all directions and cautions that accompany the products. Information found or received through the podcast should not be used in place of a consultation or advice from a healthcare provider. If you suspect you have a medical problem or should you have any healthcare questions, please promptly call, call or see your healthcare provider. This podcast, including Dave Asprey and the producers, disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information contained herein. Opinions of guests are their own and this podcast does not endorse or accept responsibility for statements made by guests. This podcast does not make any representations or warranties about guest qualifications or credibility. This podcast may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products or services. Individuals on this podcast may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to herein. This podcast is owned by Bulletproof Media.