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- [00:00]
Joy Shaw
Foreign.
- [00:07]
Julie Solomon
Welcome to Woman of Influence. I'm Julie Solomon. And this is where high level women.
- [00:12]
Julie Solomon's Co-host or Producer
Come to recalibrate their message, realign their leadership, and rise into the next era of impact.
- [00:20]
Julie Solomon
If you're ready to align your visibility with your true authority, if you're called to speak, speak to women at the.
- [00:27]
Julie Solomon's Co-host or Producer
Level you now lead. If you're ready for your business to feel as elevated as the woman running it, this is your space. Because real influence isn't built in the algorithm, it's embodied in your identity. Let's get started.
- [00:49]
Julie Solomon
Hi, friend.
- [00:50]
Joy Shaw
Hi.
- [00:51]
Julie Solomon
I feel like this has been a long time coming because we're constantly voice noting. We probably just were this morning. We probably have 20 podcast episodes. Voice note. But you are such a important woman in my life. You are a dear, dear friend of mine. We have gotten to know each other deeply over the last almost six years. You were in the room when my daughter was born. I mean, just so much amazing, good, beautiful stuff. And so you came into my world, you know, as a friend and as a doula. But now that has just transformed and evolved to so many beautiful things, which we're going to be talking about today. But I would first love to drop in and for you to answer for me, what does being a woman of influence mean to you?
- [01:35]
Joy Shaw
It's funny because we were just talking about this story that I had a post on Facebook where somebody told me that, oh, they got into running because of this way that I described how I learned how to run. And I think it's just exactly that. It's showing up and living with so much integrity and intention that it inspires other people to want to do the same. You know, and that's one of my daily mantras is I live my life in such a way as to inspire others to the highest expression of themselves, or I love others in such a way as to inspire them to the highest expression of themselves. And I think that's also a part of being a woman of influence is holding that sort of loving, highest. Like, I see you in your highest expression and I'm holding that in love and I'm shining light into that instead of, you know, maybe you should work on this, maybe you should fix this. And I think you and I probably both get that because of our codependency, healing journeys where it's like the fixer and the repairing and then you come into a place of empowerment and self responsibility and then you realize that, like, if I'm fixing you and helping you all the time, I'm keeping you Weak, and I'm keeping you from being able to grow, and I'm not inviting you into your own expansion. But if I love you and I shine light on where you are already strong, even if those are minimal places where you're going to grow in those directions. Right. Like, I think that kind of attention that we give. It's that. It's the quality of attention and presence that we give as women that allows others to sort of bloom in that direction, almost like a sun and a sunflower, you know, that's kind of how I picture it in my mind. Yeah.
- [03:13]
Julie Solomon
Oh, that's good. Well, speaking of light, I mean, one of the things that I. I love so much about you and I also just admire so much about you.
- [03:21]
Julie Solomon's Co-host or Producer
It's.
- [03:22]
Julie Solomon
I think it's such a strength that you have is how learn to embrace and dance and alchemize with the shadow.
- [03:30]
Joy Shaw
Yeah.
- [03:32]
Julie Solomon
So good with that. Right. And as someone who is such a sun in such a light, you know, I've spent. And you know this about me. I mean, I've spent so much of my life trying to, like, avoid the shadow or shape the shadow or let's just blast it with the light, you know, instead of actually bringing it in. Because you can't have light without. Without the shadow. And so, yeah, I would love to know, like, how has this. Because there's so many different ways that we could go with this, but. Yeah, how has this really shown in.
- [03:58]
Julie Solomon's Co-host or Producer
Your life over the last few years.
- [04:00]
Julie Solomon
And how has that played a part in really how you support human beings now in the work that you do?
- [04:07]
Joy Shaw
Yeah, you know, that's really interesting. I do work in the plant medicine space, and I also have my own sort of, like, maintenance practice in that space. And while I was really growing in my relationship, which you. When you work with plant medicines, you're building a relationship with something, and that's sort of more of the medicine path, as opposed to, like, the clinical approach, which what I do is really a hybrid of both. But I was in the space and I was having a really difficult time, and I think I had just gotten over Covid, and I just gone through my own sort of, like, shutdown, being home alone for a long period of time. And I was like, well, you know, I'm going to process. It was full shadow work journey. And I was so uncomfortable. And all the message that came into my mind was, the medicine is in the stay. And I was like, the medicine is in the stay. What is this supposed to mean? I'm just supposed to stay in this uncomfortable feeling, like I'm supposed to just stay in this misery for hours because this is not gonna wear off for a long time. And I was like, how can I be with this? And then I remembered how when I had a stroke from a brain aneurysm and I was laying in critical care for a week and just intolerable pain, how I had to learn how to stay and be in that discomfort and just kind of become one with it, right? Which is really what shadow work is, is like merging and integrating all these lost, abandoned, homeless energies that are a part of us that have been expressing themselves in maybe dysfunctional ways, which is how they manifest in the shadow. But it's just a trait. It's just an aspect of you. It's really an aspect of the light. The shadow is always just an aspect of the light expressing itself on the other side of the object, right? But it needs the sun. Like, the light is casting the shadow by shining on an object. And I always think of it that way, right? And it only exists because of the light. So it is really an aspect of the light expressing itself just on the other side of the object. And so that's really got what I started learning was if I can be with these parts of myself, I can be in the space of discomfort. And I spent hours just like, oh, my God, I'm just gonna breathe. I'm gonna stay in this space and stay with it. And then what ended up happening was after I finally, like, every part of my resistance gave up, and I just was like, I'll be here forever if I have to be here forever, and I will figure out how to be here. Then it went away. And as it went away, I dropped in deep, and I realized that there was this, like, massive well of grief I had been avoiding, and that was it. And I was like, oh, so much of the discomfort that I have been sort of pulling away from has been masking this deeper well of grief that is actually so much harder. And it was like my empty nest grief. It was the last year my daughter was going to be home, or like the last two years. And grief around realizing how late it had taken me to get to. To really recognizing how to be present with my family the way I wanted to, and. And then grieving the life that I. You know, and there was like, oh, my gosh. There's just so many parts of my experience that if I'm going to validate them, I have to grieve them. And then there was anger, and then there was, you know all of those unpleasant to experience emotions or the ones that could potentially be, you know, traumatizing to other people if we don't handle them well. And so a lot of I think that has just been stay in it, learning how to stay in it. We can stay in the discomfort. I can kind of become one with it. I can become curious about it instead of resisting. I can soften to it, you know, and that's really, I think, all of it.
- [07:45]
Julie Solomon's Co-host or Producer
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- [09:28]
Julie Solomon
That's such a beautiful way to share that. And also there are so many, I think so many people out there that could be listening to that. That's like, wow, that's amazing and that's beautiful. But like, I don't know how to get there.
- [09:42]
Julie Solomon's Co-host or Producer
I don't know how to access that.
- [09:44]
Julie Solomon
Or I'm afraid, yeah, to access that. What is your perspective on that and you know, whether that's, you know, Here. Here's a process that you can use, but. But more so, like, where's that fear come from?
- [09:57]
Joy Shaw
Oh, yeah, it's. Which is really interesting. And I think birth was such a beautiful training ground. Like, 15 years of helping women give birth to babies, and now I feel like I'm helping people ultimately give birth to themselves, you know, and that is. There's so much fear in that process. A lot of preparation for birth is helping women work through all of the potential of things that they're afraid of, like things that could go wrong.
- [10:22]
Julie Solomon's Co-host or Producer
Right.
- [10:22]
Joy Shaw
And some of those are. A lot of fear is just a story. And I think that's one of the hardest things, is when I'm inviting somebody to soften and go into their places of resistance. We have to recognize that there's fear that is ultimately. And then. And then you get into that fear, and you're like, okay, well, okay. As soon as you start describing your fears to me, I can point out how that's. That's. That's an interesting story. Okay, That's a possibility. And then you realize how many of your fears don't have anything to do with the present moment. And so most of what I try to invite people to do is just come back here, right? Because, I mean, sure, I understand. You're afraid that, like, you could lose all your money in this thing, or you're afraid that, like, your baby might die, or you're afraid that, you know, you're gonna rip and you're gonna tear right when women are in labor, or you're afraid of all of these possible things that could go wrong. What if I can't breastfeed my baby? What if I can't? You. Those were the fears that I was dealing with then, which are practical and helpful. But I could say, well, right now you're four months pregnant, and we're just sitting here learning how to stretch and expand a little bit at a time, and you'll be ready to deal with that moment when that moment comes. But come on back here right now, because that moment doesn't exist now. And the second that we go into that fearful place of thinking about a future fearful scenario, we flood this moment, and it becomes, like, overwhelming. And then we can't even find our way through it. So I really think most of that, it's like when people are like, how do I do that? Figure out how to be present. Figure out how to come back and just be present with your experience right now and whether you need to. And I think there are a lot of Tools. There are a lot of modalities people can use. Different modalities are going to resonate with different people. Some people really find breath work to be great. Some, some people love somatic movement. I do a little bit of. A lot of modalities. And my. The practice of presence is really a thing. Like it's. We're not naturally present moment people. Our minds are wired for survival. And if you have trauma, they're doubly wired for survival, right, because you had to make it through a really unsafe environment that you were growing up in or some event that happened that you had to survive. And so your mind is, is almost programmed even more to keep you alive, to be hyper vigilant, work with a lot of people with ptsd, you know, and so we're deprogramming a lot of that and we're having to build safety and trust with it. And the other thing that we have to do is we have to befriend this part of us that we think is us, you know, our mind the fixer. If you do like, ifs, there's terms for it. There's a lot of different, you know, ways that you can start to recognize your parts or work with the ego or, you know, the storytelling part of yourself, the inner child parts of yourself. You have to kind of build a relationship with them, build trust with them, learn how to listen to them. Fear is just a part of you that needs your attention, right? And you can give it your attention if you're with it. And just like, if your kids are afraid, how often do we as parents have to reassure them? And, and it doesn't matter, like, oh, I'm afraid of the deep water, or I'm afraid of going out there and performing in my little concert with my friends, or, you know, probably Lily Jo is gonna be doing a lot of that coming up soon. And so there's nothing we can do to take away the thing that's scary. All we can do is make them feel capable of feeling the fear, staying present with themselves through it and then doing it anyways. Like, I'm getting ready to go on this cross country adventure, right? I'm gonna be car camping with my dog and I'm excited about it. And of course, as soon as I got excited about it, right on the heels of that, I started getting anxious and feeling like, well, what about this? What if I have to. Am I gonna sleep in the middle of the night and then I have to get out of bed and then what if I pee on. I mean, I'm even peeing on my feet or worry about that. Is my dog gonna be okay? Like all of the things, you know.
- [14:34]
Julie Solomon
Is this where you see. Because I mean, you've walked with so many women through birth, but then, you know, really over the last five years, you've walked with a lot of men and women, you know, through plant medicine, through just layers and layers of healing. Is this where you see most people get stuck or tripped up? Is it, is it this fear piece? Is it a control? Is it like, how does that play?
- [14:56]
Joy Shaw
And control is just a part of fear, right? It's trying to feel safe. It is, it is. We are seeking safety all the time. It's just that we have this idea that we can create safety, that the mind can create safety. And safety is something that we have to cultivate within the nervous system, in the body. I have to be okay no matter what. I have to know that I will be okay no matter what. I have to trust that I have the capability and the capacity to handle whatever life threatening throws at me. And most of us who have a lot of fear and have control issues are highly capable individuals who have handled catastrophe over and over and over again. And we just have to remind ourselves. And I think a lot of that is coming back and saying like, but look what you did there. Look at how great that was. Look at how you grew in that way, you know, and then it comes back down to that deeper piece of self love. Like, can you see yourself in that way as somebody who has done really amazing things? Or are you looking at yourself and being like, you're still not good enough?
- [16:01]
Julie Solomon
Is that the, is that the kind of the precipice where someone that may come to do a plant medicine journey with you and, and they, you know, they fully trust and they free fall, right? The trust fall into it and they have an experience versus someone who for whatever reason resists it. Like what, what are kind of the two different distinctions of like if you kind of go into it with this, this could be the outcome that you get versus if you go into it this way, this is what's going to happen. What are the differences between those two?
- [16:31]
Joy Shaw
Yeah, that's a pretty. There's a pretty significant difference. And I have learned that lesson over time, you know, and there's a lot more preparation that I try to give people. But mostly it's, you have to be ready to meet all parts of yourself and be willing to accept whatever you are shown. And anytime it gets uncomfortable, you're in your head too. Much. And you need to get back into your body. So if somebody is capable of, like, breathing and staying with themselves, they're going to do well. But if they. And a lot of times, and I'm sure a lot of people are going to have different thoughts about this. But what I find is that when people get physically uncomfortable to the point where they're getting maybe, like, purging, and there are definitely, like, there's energy that's moving.
- [17:21]
Julie Solomon
Right.
- [17:22]
Joy Shaw
And it has to be cleared one way or another. And a lot of times when people are not allowing themselves to feel their emotions.
- [17:27]
Julie Solomon
That's why I always purge.
- [17:29]
Joy Shaw
Yes.
- [17:29]
Julie Solomon
I start that, like, immediately purging. Now we can go.
- [17:32]
Joy Shaw
Now we can go. It's like the energy is gonna move one way or another. And if you're not acclimated to. I do find this, like, if you allow yourself to feel your feelings and express them in a very free and open way, you will flow through that space, because that's how the energy wants to move, is through your emotional body. If you don't allow the emotions to flow or you don't have a comfort level with it. And a lot of times it's because we're so afraid that if I allow myself to feel the intensity of what it is that I. That is arising, I may never come back from that, you know, And I've helped people through intense grief. I helped somebody recently through grieving the death of her mother and a couple of other things that had happened. And she'd been pushing off the intensity of the grief and in survival mode for months and months. And I. It was so hard for me to finally get her to allow herself to just feel that grief. And I think she was like. There was a part of her was like, if I do this, does it mean she's really gone? Right. And then also, if I allow myself to feel this, I don't think I'm going to survive it. I think it's going to kill me. And that's kind of the entire point. Point. It's meant to deconstruct who it is that you think that you are so that you can become more than you think that you are, because you are more than you think that you are.
- [18:50]
Julie Solomon
Yeah.
- [18:51]
Joy Shaw
You can become more of who you could be. And that's like this expansion. It's. Oh, it's a painful process.
- [18:59]
Julie Solomon
Yeah. Sounds a lot like birth, which I was going to ask you so much. Like, what are the commonalities between everything, Birth and a medicine journey?
- [19:07]
Joy Shaw
Everything. It's everything. It's trusting the process. Right. And knowing that like the miracle of new life is on the other side. Yeah. And I think if we can focus on that, we know why we're doing it.
- [19:20]
Julie Solomon
Right.
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Joy Shaw
And then we allow it to happen. But if somebody comes in and they're like, I'm just ready for whatever comes up, I have no expectations. I am will. And I tell people, like, if you really want to have a game changing psychedelic experience, go in and say, I am willing to see what I have not been willing to see up to this point. Show me what I have not been willing to see. I will accept it, I will see it, I will receive it. And if you do that, it's just. Yeah, the medicine will meet you there.
- [19:53]
Julie Solomon
Yeah.
- [19:54]
Joy Shaw
And then that's when we really start to grow. And that's when I really started to grow. I also started doing a lot of shadow work after that.
- [20:00]
Julie Solomon
Yeah. Because that's what I was going to ask you. So once you, you know, you go through these processes, you know, a lot of, a lot of things that we talk about privately are, you know, it's, it's not the person, it's the pattern. Yeah. But it's the pattern of patterns of codependency, patterns of control, patterns of not wanting to deal with the stuff. And so deflection and projection. When people do get to the other side of facing whatever that is, you know, what do you typically see? Are those patterns that come up for people that now need processing and integration? Is it, is it mostly codependency? Is it in? And how do people then, once they kind of map that out, how do people then do themselves a service of not defaulting back? Does that make sense?
- [20:49]
Julie Solomon's Co-host or Producer
Yes.
- [20:50]
Joy Shaw
No, it is. And what's really interesting, what I have found, because patterns are kind of my thing and I, and I, and I see them and I can help people. Pattern disruption is really my job. Right. Is like, that's how we evolve and expand, is we disrupt the pattern so that we can find new ways of experiencing ourselves. The common patterns all have to do with. Well, and it's hard because when you go into these experiences, you clear a lot of energy. You get a lot of clarity and awareness. You now have to translate that into your human.
- [21:20]
Julie Solomon
Yeah, right.
- [21:21]
Joy Shaw
And it needs to update just like any operating system. And we don't have. I tell people this all the time. Like you don't have on your brain, in your system. You can't be like, update my iOS and it just like does it in 10 minutes. You have to actually Manually update every single program. So now a lot of what I do is coach people through a specific process with 12 steps actually, to kind of start to take ownership of their own reprogramming process. And the first thing we have to do is we just have to become aware and awake and conscious and be able to, like, observe the system and what's going on. That's when we start to create some spaciousness. Like, my Zen meditation practice that I started, I don't know, 11 years ago maybe was a game changer for me because I started realizing, like, oh, if my mind is like a pool and thoughts are just these things floating to the surface of them, and I'm sitting outside the pool and I'm not identifying as my thoughts and my emotions, then I. Then I started just become more familiar with the consciousness that is experiencing those things. And it has its own nature, you know, and that's really, like our soul. That's. This is more of that spiritual understanding of ourselves as being more than this identity. And most of the patterns, Julie, are either narcissistic in nature or codependent in nature.
- [22:36]
Julie Solomon
Okay, so share about those. Yeah.
- [22:37]
Joy Shaw
And so I. And we talk. There's a lot of language around narcissistic. And my personal philosophy on this and what I have found is that it's a spectrum. Like any spectrum we're talking about, there's spectrums of neurodiversity, there's spectrums of people, how people feel on different types of ways that they identify. Right. And gender and sexuality. And there's this spectrum of codependency and narcissism. And we can kind of swing and we fall in different parts of it if we lack a fully developed sense of. Of self. And that's the. That's the common denominator between them. And these are just matching wounded patterns. And both are toxic. And I think that's the challenge. So the biggest thing that I recognize that blocks people from updating their patterns is not being able to shift out of a victim consciousness.
- [23:27]
Julie Solomon's Co-host or Producer
Okay.
- [23:29]
Joy Shaw
So we. And. And it's in victim narratives and victim consciousness. Substances are super insidious. We don't realize we're in them a lot of the time. Like when I started getting perimenopausal symptoms, and I was like, oh, being a woman and, oh, my hormones. And why does this have to happen to me? And it's not. I'm like, victim. I'm a victim now. Instead of being like, you know what? I trust the process of life and nature, and there's a wisdom to it and I'm gonna be curious about that. And this is uncomfortable. Yeah. Oh. More on more discomfort that I have to be with and learn from.
- [24:05]
Julie Solomon's Co-host or Producer
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- [26:32]
Julie Solomon
And I think it is that unconscious piece because I was even sharing something yesterday which is something that you and I have talked a lot about is that I used to have this victim narrative around being around feeling taken advantage of and this. This idea that. Not to say if that. That that wasn't true or not. But. But there was a victimhood to that. Because if. If I believe that I was being taken advantage of, and then I could then be resentful to be taken advantage of, which would then just perpetuate the narrative of, well, Julie just has to do it herself. No one's going to show up for her. She's just got to do it. Which would then keep me in the driver's seat and in control, which would then just continue to perpetuate that narrative. So there's always a payoff.
- [27:13]
Joy Shaw
There's always a payoff for that.
- [27:15]
Julie Solomon
And so, yeah. Like, talk to us about, like, how that is showing up in those patterns that you were just mentioning.
- [27:20]
Joy Shaw
Yeah. What's interesting is, like, I see a lot of, like, women burning out as a pattern.
- [27:26]
Julie Solomon's Co-host or Producer
Right.
- [27:26]
Joy Shaw
You see that a lot. You see a lot in your space in particular. But I see it a lot in healing. Healing spaces as well.
- [27:32]
Julie Solomon
Yeah.
- [27:32]
Joy Shaw
Like, my energetic hygiene practices are so important to me, and they're so. Because I can't show up as a full vessel.
- [27:38]
Julie Solomon
Yeah.
- [27:39]
Joy Shaw
If I am not nurtured, cared for, and feeling strong and solid myself, and then how am I really serving? Right. So I have a personal responsibility to take care of myself, which means I can't be available to everybody else the time. And if I need that validation and that feedback from, like. But I need you to feel like I'm important to you, and I need you to feel like I'm valuable and I'm providing you with things, and I need that feedback that I'm doing a good job, that I'm meeting your needs. Well, whether that's a very codependent thing. Right. Like, am I doing a good job? Am I meeting your needs? Do you feel like I'm changing your life? And there's a way, I think, that we can get a lot out of watching people victories and celebrating them. And that's different than getting this. Like, you're so amazing. Thank you so much for helping me.
- [28:26]
Julie Solomon
Wow.
- [28:27]
Joy Shaw
You're just a genius. You're amazing. And, like, if I need to hear that, then I'm gonna work my ass off all the time to continually feed this way of getting this feedback. Or if there's a part of me that gets attention every time that I'm exhausted and burned out, and then because I'm afraid to ask for help or I'M afraid to ask for that nurturing, or am I only able to receive that care when I am totally depleted? Right. Then that means that I have a receiving issue and I can't and I don't feel worthy of receiving. So I can only receive it when I'm desperate and in need, which. When I had my stroke, when I went to intensive therapy years ago and I did my. I know you just went. Went recently and talked about that. One of the therapists was like, okay, today, Joy, I want you to ask for help 10 times. I didn't do it once. And years later, I was still not good at that. But when I had a stroke and I was forced, people moved stuff out of my house. I mean, I couldn't even get up and walk to the bathroom. And then when I could finally walk to the bathroom, like, how old were.
- [29:36]
Julie Solomon
Your girls when you had a stroke?
- [29:37]
Joy Shaw
They were nine, eight, four.
- [29:39]
Julie Solomon's Co-host or Producer
Yeah.
- [29:39]
Joy Shaw
Yeah. That's a lot. Those really. That's a lot. And they're gonna keep processing that, I'm sure, over time, but. And I don't know if they're ready yet.
- [29:48]
Julie Solomon
Yeah.
- [29:48]
Joy Shaw
Which is interesting.
- [29:49]
Julie Solomon
Yeah.
- [29:50]
Joy Shaw
But. And as a mom, I'm not going to be codependent about that. I'm gonna just, like, they're gonna do their thing at their time frame, and I'll be here to support it.
- [30:01]
Julie Solomon
Yes.
- [30:01]
Joy Shaw
Their process.
- [30:02]
Julie Solomon
Yes.
- [30:03]
Joy Shaw
But that is the thing about that was, like, I was forced to ask for help. I was forced to receive help. And I realized, like, why it's so hard to receive help. I don't want to inconvenience anybody. I don't believe that I'm worthy of inconveniencing anybody. And I said that to somebody recently where I was like, I'm so grateful that you're willing to be inconvenienced for me. And I think that's the other piece is, like, when I don't need other people to do things for me, the gratitude I have for when they do give me positive feedback or are willing to help me, that's a really powerful thing. Right. But if I can't do things for myself and I don't know how to meet my own needs, and I need somebody else to meet my needs, and I can only allow them to meet my needs when I'm really depleted, well, that's exhausting. So first I have to be right, really good at knowing what my needs are. I have to meet my own needs. I have to make sure I'm filling my cup. And then when I feel Like I need help or support or I just want to receive. I could ask for it. And I've had to learn this lesson over and over and over again.
- [31:13]
Julie Solomon
That's so good. This mic drop moment right there. Yeah, for sure. So good. Okay, I want to talk about. I mean, I don't know if it's spicy or not, but it's, you know, each industry has kind of their stigmas.
- [31:27]
Julie Solomon's Co-host or Producer
Right.
- [31:27]
Julie Solomon
So it's like someone could go into my industry and be like, oh, pyramid scheme or like, you know, whatever. And I don't have any attachment to that because I'm so secure in the work that I do and the value that I provide. In the healing space, especially in the plant medicine space, it can get a very bad rap because you will have people most of the time, men, these quote unquote shamans.
- [31:51]
Joy Shaw
Yes.
- [31:51]
Julie Solomon
That will come in and just kind of like poo poo on the whole thing. And people will, you know, really be met with what. With what is honestly a very unethical experience and, and dynamic. So can you share a little bit about that? Because there may be people listening here that maybe they've done plant medicine journeys and, and they feel really good there. Maybe some people are like, I've never done it. Maybe there's some people that are like, I've kind of always, always wanted to, but I'm worried about it. Or I had a friend that did it once and then it was like this really weird thing happened.
- [32:22]
Joy Shaw
Yeah.
- [32:23]
Julie Solomon
Just kind of would love your take on that because I know that ethics and integrity are very important to you. And having to kind of. And I get it because in my industry, sometimes you have to kind of like, it's. It's there. I think in any industry it's going to be there. But how does that show up, you know, in your space? And what do you have to have to say about that?
- [32:42]
Joy Shaw
Yeah, this is actually something you and I have talked about a great deal. And it's something that is. I have to work regularly not to get angry about because it's upsetting to see harm being caused to people who are asking for help and healing. And it reminds me of when I was a missionary kid growing up and I was in that very spiritual religious world. And then you'd have like this pastor or the spiritual leader that you'd find out was having these affairs or taking money from the. You know, and then. And then there was this major sort of fall from grace. And the plant medicine space is a spiritual space. I think it's kind of Being over spiritualized and religious. Almost religious ified, if that's not even a word.
- [33:22]
Julie Solomon
Yeah, like idolized.
- [33:23]
Joy Shaw
Idolized, right. And so you have these wounded people coming in, discovering plant medicine and maybe they, maybe they're already in the healing space or maybe they get called into it because of how powerful they feel this work is for them. But that's why integration is so important, because these are non specific amplifiers. And I think people don't understand that. Right. They almost deify the plant medicines and they're not. They're a really beautiful tool and they work in a very specific way. And there's even like a consciousness to some of the plant medicines. Right. The ones that we're working with that are actually grown, like they have an energy that they work with or feminine or masculine or whatever. And so we can become familiar with that and we can kind of go really. And I think some people go so far into that and then they maybe have a shaman that they mentor with that they hold up on a pedestal. And then one day they graduate and they become the pedestal. Right. And then the end. Because you're in this amplified space. If your integrity with your own practice is not really solid when you are con, you're connecting with people in this space on a deep soul level. And if there's any part of you, like we said earlier, that still needs that validation and that feedback and telling me I'm doing a good job or that comes in and has this like savior complex that's coming in, it all gets amplified in that space. If there's unintegrated ego pieces and this person, their identity is still built around their healing modality and the thing that they're doing as opposed to being built around their authentic sense of self. Like if somebody doesn't know who they are outside of the plant medicine healing space, you should not work with them. That's basically it. Like I am, more than anything, I'm a creative. And I. And I'm really shifting my own personal identity into like I'm an artist, I'm a creative. What I do is an expression of who I am. It just so happens that these are the things that have been so impactful for me that I've become really passionate about and that I, because I know my gifts now, they express themselves really beautifully here. But I'm not a martyr and I'm not doing this to like pour out into everybody else and drain my own cup. I'm doing it because it's inspiring to me to watch people become the heroes of their own stories to empower them the way that I had to find my own power, you know, and that I think when we come from this authentic space, then we're able to work with integrity in that place. And I think that's why, you know, there's this growing scientific, clinical thing, because you have to. I studied law and ethics as a massage therapist for 11 years. Right. So I've worked in these health spaces. I've worked with birth and had to observe these boundaries. I don't think I would be able to work the way I do without that training and background. So there is a value to that and there isn't any kind of guidelines happening in that space.
- [36:13]
Julie Solomon
Same with mine.
- [36:14]
Joy Shaw
Same with yours. Right. And so it all comes down to like, you get to know the person, you look at them and see if you notice that there's like consistency in them and accountability in them and integrity in them and then they will be a safe place for you to do your healing. We have to be a safe space working in the plant medicine space. And the only way I can be a safe space is if I am a safe space for myself. Like if my relationship with myself, and we said this earlier, I'm circling back to the self love piece. It's so simple. The only thing we have to do is love ourselves. And when we are coming from that place of feeling like I am lovable and I am loved. And that was my core wound for a long time believing that I was not, that is too much, that I was unlovable. And now I'm like, yeah, I am as high capacity individual and I love being this way. Not everybody's cup of tea. And that's okay because not everybody is my cup of tea. But do you remember when you started giving yourself permission to not like everybody?
- [37:13]
Julie Solomon
Oh, yeah, right. Like the most profound, freeing moment because.
- [37:20]
Joy Shaw
I need to be liked. I need to be liked. And then you're like, but I don't like everybody. I can love everybody. Yeah, everybody's not my cup of tea.
- [37:26]
Julie Solomon
Yeah. And like I don't actually have to. And not that it makes this person bad or wrong, but it's like I don't have to be around this person if I don't want to be. And I don't even have to gaslight myself out of why I think feel that way. It can just be.
- [37:39]
Joy Shaw
Yep.
- [37:39]
Julie Solomon
Yeah. It's a beautiful thing.
- [37:41]
Joy Shaw
It's a beautiful, freeing thing.
- [37:43]
Julie Solomon
Okay, so I want to know, I know you're about to do this. Beautiful. I mean, you're you're at this season of your life that you've got three amazing, beautiful, grown young women as daughters and they're off in the world doing their thing. And it's given you this, this freedom in this moment to see what's on the other side. So you're about to do a little cross, cross country journey for a little bit. I'm like, I hope we get her back. I just have this, I had this feeling today, Joy. I was like, she's gonna go on this thing.
- [38:12]
Julie Solomon's Co-host or Producer
Yeah.
- [38:12]
Julie Solomon
She's going to meet someone. If that's meant to happen, I want it to happen because, like. Yeah. But then, like, she's gonna be like, I'm now living in Colorado.
- [38:21]
Joy Shaw
Yeah. Or wherever else.
- [38:24]
Julie Solomon
Yeah. So I'm like, I don't know. For some reason that just dropped in, I was like, whether it's someone, like, I don't know who the person's gonna be, but like, you're gonna go on this and you're gonna meet someone or there's gonna be an experience or there's gonna be something. And I'm like, I don't know if she's gonna come back maybe as quickly as she thinks she's coming back and that's okay. So with all that to say, though, I would love to know what you, I mean, because you have been in this work, you've worked with so many people from, you know, veterans to athletes to celebrities to stay at home moms to, you name it, just helping them through their healing journey. What do you see as, as a. What's to come in, in the consciousness of this planet and humanity? Like what are we on the precipice of.
- [39:11]
Joy Shaw
Yeah, I think that's such an important thing for us to talk about because those, it's, it requires that we zoom out. And once you zoom out, if you start to understand the nature of reality, the macrocosm is just a mirror for the microcosm and vice versa. Right. That's why Eckhart Tolle talks about our pain body so much and Carl Jung as well. It's like if we're projecting, we're projecting our pain body and we're reacting to our external world from our pain body. That's why if we shift to love and we're reacting to our external world from a place of love, we start to radiate a different kind of energy. Right. So what's happening collectively is what happens in every individual's life. I have a couple I worked with who lost their house in the tornado years ago and they will say it is the best thing that could have ever happened to them, even though it put them into two years of hell. Right. And it was just. It was terrifying. They were in the house when it happened. They lost everything they had. They had to rebuild from the ground up. And. And now they are, like, so amazingly fulfilled and successful in their career of doing these, like, gorgeous, like, People magazine weddings all over the world.
- [40:25]
Julie Solomon
Yeah.
- [40:26]
Joy Shaw
But this forced them to finally face their original wounds, to deal with all the challenges of the stuff. So, like, when somebody comes to me on the tail end of a divorce or after a major loss or something like that, I'm like, wow, okay. This is a beautiful invitation for us to finally, like, heal and become whole and. And become what we could be. Right? To evolve into our highest expression collectively. That's what we're doing right now. Which means it's gonna suck for a little while and we may go through a couple years of hell, you know, because it's this. It's. It's causing us to. It builds this pressure to this breaking point where we can either evolve or die. Right? And that's it. And one of my friends, Joel, who does the music festival, he just said that the other day. He's like, well, I gotta evolve or die, you know? And he's doing his own personal growth in order to express it into his music festival. That's also all about sustainability and saving the planet and wanting to support the way that we experience life. And he recognizes that as a leader of the sort of organization, he needs to embody the principles that he is trying to teach others to do, because we're trying to support that process in the world. And those of us who are coaches and way showers right now, we have such a huge responsibility because we are ultimately shepherds, and we are shepherding the sheep, which are the other human. I don't mean sheep in a negative way, but like, these other humans, they need support. They need somebody to be like, we're going to be okay. You know, can you be the Sherpa for me, as we're hiking up this really challenging mountain, you know, like, that's our only role. And that means we have to know the terrain really well and we have to be really grounded and we have to be really solid so that we can support this evolutionary experience. Because I used to tell people trauma is entirely subjective. It is. It's never what happened. It's the story we're telling about what happens and then how we hold that in our bodies. My mom went and worked with these orphan kids in Uganda and a lot of them were child soldiers and they had had to like murder their own family members. And forced to fight right at this young age. Just horrific stuff that a 10 year old child should never be able to handle. And here my mom is in this special home for these children that's rehabilitating them and she's like, they're laughing and they're playing and they're like running around and they're still kids.
- [42:51]
Julie Solomon
They're being children.
- [42:52]
Joy Shaw
They're being children. But there's a part of that that like this is their life and this is kind of a normal thing to deal with. If you took an American child from a suburban town and put them through what they, they would be rocking in the corner unintelligibly.
- [43:05]
Julie Solomon
Right, right. They would crack.
- [43:07]
Joy Shaw
Right. Because from, for them, like trauma is subjective. So whatever environment you're in. So if I can take. I realized after years of working in birth that like, oh, everybody should have a natural empowering childbirth. It doesn't work that way. Right. So how can I help you take this experience and turn it into something empowering.
- [43:26]
Julie Solomon
This also reminds me of the difference between like a coyote and a domesticated Pomeranian. You know, it's like if you like saint comes from the same, you know, DNA, but like if you, if you take this, you know, undomesticated animal. Yep. Or domesticated animal and try to put them in this undem, like it's not going to be the same thing.
- [43:47]
Joy Shaw
Right.
- [43:47]
Julie Solomon
And so the environment and how that shapes the subjectivity of the experience and the trauma is fascinating.
- [43:55]
Joy Shaw
It really is. And, and you can go so many places with that because that's what dictates. That's the stories that we tell about what happened. I mean, you can have five people go through the same experience and then interview each of them about what happened. And then maybe you had like a camera videoing it the whole time. And when they watch it back, none of them actually reported exactly what happened.
- [44:16]
Julie Solomon
Right.
- [44:16]
Joy Shaw
But it was how they experienced what happened. And that's why how we know ourselves to be and how we believe ourselves to be capable of handling things is everything. It's never about what happens. It's always about the story you tell about what's happening and the relationship you're gonna decide to have with the experience.
- [44:33]
Julie Solomon
So.
- [44:33]
Joy Shaw
Good. And that I think is collectively what we're trying to figure out how to do. How can we not be victims of this process of the government, you know, or the economy or the whatever. And like how can we just figure out how to be empowered individuals who are making our way through a challenging chapter so that we can finally expand and grow and shed what no longer serves?
- [44:59]
Julie Solomon
So, my friends, before we wrap this up, I want to know, how are you planning to do that as we go into 20, 26? What is your prayer for yourself? What you're calling in, what you're claiming? As we step into this chapter, as you literally are about to drive off into the abyss.
- [45:18]
Joy Shaw
I know you're gonna get a selfie of me, like, on a mountaintop or at least. And you're like, I really hope she's safe. I know, because I tend to take risks.
- [45:24]
Julie Solomon
Yes, I know you're safe. I'm just like, I hope I see her.
- [45:28]
Julie Solomon's Co-host or Producer
Yes.
- [45:28]
Julie Solomon
I hope she does in the next 18 months.
- [45:30]
Joy Shaw
I know I do have children here.
- [45:32]
Julie Solomon
You do.
- [45:32]
Joy Shaw
That's what pulls me back.
- [45:33]
Julie Solomon
Yes.
- [45:34]
Joy Shaw
They're my anchor. You know, I think what it is, is you and I had that conversation the other day where you're like, well, you're in this untethered season. And again, that was a story that I was telling. That was a victim kind of narrative I grew up with. I'm not from anywhere. I don't belong anywhere. You know, I thought I'd have a partner at this point in my life, and I've had to kind of let all of those old stories go. But then you brought that word back up for me untethered. And I have a different relationship to it now because you helped me reframe it just without even trying. And I was like, oh, yeah, I am untethered. I can do whatever I want, whenever I want, however I want. Do you know how amazing it is? And also, I consciously worked to build a life like this. Yes. Where I am. I mean, I have been working for myself for years. And while it has lacked a lot of financial stability, I have had a lot of freedom and fulfillment, and I wouldn't trade that for the world. And now I'm so grateful for it. So I think in this new chapter, I really just want to embody more of this authentic sort of self that I have. I am never going to be conventional, and I'm finally okay with that, you know, and to just sort of like.
- [46:47]
Julie Solomon
What I love about you.
- [46:49]
Joy Shaw
No. I had a sweater earlier, and I was like, should I wear this? My mom's like, I was kind of hippie looking, and I was like, well, that's kind of my brand.
- [46:55]
Julie Solomon
Anyway.
- [46:55]
Joy Shaw
I'm kind of. I'm kind of. I'm not preppy, but I'm not hippie, but I'm somewhere in the middle. Yeah, I'm good hygiene, but that is, I think the thing that I'm thinking about now is just like, I'm just gonna follow my inspiration this year and I'm gonna see where that takes me.
- [47:12]
Julie Solomon's Co-host or Producer
Yeah.
- [47:12]
Joy Shaw
You know, and I don't know, I actually don't know what this next chapter of my life is going to look like, but I'm in the dreaming and visioning phase and I'm starting to just like realize that the potential and the possibilities are so much broader than I ever believe that they could be.
- [47:32]
Julie Solomon
Yeah.
- [47:32]
Joy Shaw
You know, and I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna follow that. I'm gonna follow my heart and see where it takes.
- [47:37]
Julie Solomon
Makes me so good. Okay, my friend, before we wrap up, please let everyone know where they can find you. Drop into your incredible work. Learn more about the work that you do. If they want to follow you on social where they can sub stack it, all the good things.
- [47:52]
Joy Shaw
Well, I am alchemized with joy on all the socials, YouTube, Tik Tok and Instagram. And the reason that I chose that used to be awakened with joy is that most of what we're doing is trying to alchemize the ingredients of our story to create something beautiful with them.
- [48:09]
Julie Solomon
Right.
- [48:09]
Joy Shaw
And the concept of alchemy is like taking something like lead and converting it into something like gold that is precious and valuable. And what do you have to put that through, that metal through in order to make it express itself as something beautiful, valuable and desirable. Right. Well, that's what we're doing. We're like taking all the ingredients of our stories and trying to create something beautiful with them. So that's what I'm doing moment to moment, day to day. And then my website is joyshaw.com so people can read more about me there and just reach out directly and ask questions. I mean that's really the best way. There's a limited amount that I actually, you know, post about specifically some of the work that I do online for specific reasons. But, but I'm always have like, oh, I heard you on Julie's podcast or you know, somebody. All of my work has always been. I've consciously built a relationship driven, referral based business and I've never in, in this industry, I have never marketed or sold.
- [49:06]
Julie Solomon
Yeah.
- [49:07]
Joy Shaw
And that's. And I've just allowed it to sort of evolve. So it feels very connected and authentic and I love that.
- [49:12]
Julie Solomon
Yeah.
- [49:13]
Julie Solomon's Co-host or Producer
Yeah.
- [49:13]
Julie Solomon
And that's how the, the women in my space are, are very sovereign and connected and when they feel a nudge, you know, they know to kind of listen to that little tug and.
- [49:23]
Joy Shaw
Yeah, feel a nudge. Reach out, reach out. She's the best.
- [49:28]
Julie Solomon
All right, my friend. I love you so much. Thank you for being here.
- [49:30]
Joy Shaw
Love you. Thank you for having me.
- [49:33]
Julie Solomon's Co-host or Producer
If today's episode served you, don't forget to hit subscribe, leave a review and share it with a woman you know is ready for more. You can now watch every episode, every week on Spotify and YouTube and continue to listen on the platform. And if you want behind the scenes updates on business messaging, leadership, special promos, the first access to what's happening in my business, in my world, I would encourage you to join my weekly email circle@juliesolomon.net newsletter. That is where all of this goes down that is not normally shared publicly. This is where your next era begins and I'm so glad that you're here.