The Hidden Costs of High Achievement: A Guide to High Functioning Codependency with Terri Cole

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Influencer Podcast Episode – The Hidden Costs of High Achievement: A Guide to High Functioning Codependency with Terri Cole

Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Influencer Podcast, host Julie Solomon welcomes back her esteemed guest, Terri Cole, a licensed psychotherapist and global relationship empowerment expert. Terri returns to discuss her groundbreaking book, Too Much: A Guide to Breakthrough the Cycle of High Functioning Codependency (HFC). The conversation delves deep into understanding HFC, its traits, underlying causes, personal impacts, and actionable strategies to overcome it. This episode is a must-listen for individuals striving to balance high achievement with personal well-being.

Defining High Functioning Codependency (HFC)

Terri Cole introduces the concept of High Functioning Codependency, expanding the traditional understanding of codependency to fit the modern, high-achieving individual. She explains that HFC is characterized by an excessive investment in others' feelings, outcomes, and circumstances, often at the expense of one's internal peace.

"My definition is that it is you being overly invested in the feeling states, the outcomes, the circumstances, the relationships, the finances, the careers, all the things of the people in your life. But it's to the detriment of your own internal peace." (07:01)

Terri emphasizes that many high-achievers initially reject the label of codependency, believing their success and capability exempt them from such patterns. However, HFC manifests differently, often unnoticed by those entrenched in high productivity and responsibility.

Traits and Behaviors of HFC

Julie and Terri explore various traits and behaviors indicative of HFC, highlighting how these patterns disrupt personal and professional lives.

1. Feeling Responsible for Fixing Others' Problems

   Terri explains that individuals with HFC feel an overwhelming duty to resolve others' crises, often extending their responsibilities beyond healthy boundaries.

   "Feeling responsible to fix other people's problems. [...] your friend's crisis is literally not yours to fix." (16:06)

2. Giving Until It Hurts

   HFC individuals frequently go above and beyond without being asked, leading to overextension and eventual resentment.

   "Giving till it hurts, which a lot of times means going above and beyond, and a lot of times doing things no one has asked you to do." (16:06)

3. Auto-Advice Giving

   Often providing unsolicited advice stems from a compulsive need to be the solution, which can hinder genuine connection and intimacy.

   "Auto advice giving goes right up there with feeling responsible for fixing other people's problems." (18:11)

4. Always Jumping into Damage Control Mode

   Excelling in crisis situations can lead HFC individuals to subconsciously create or perpetuate crises to maintain their role as the fixer.

   "Always jumping into damage control mode because we are great in a crisis." (19:00)

5. Hyper-Independent

   Despite being great givers, HFC individuals struggle to accept help, leading to existential loneliness and blocked intimacy.

   "Hyper independence... can create a feeling of existential loneliness where we don't trust other people to show up for us." (20:55)

Personal Anecdotes and Stories

Terri shares poignant personal stories that illustrate the profound impact of HFC behaviors:

• Terri’s Sister’s Abusive Relationship

  Terri recounts her sister’s struggle in an abusive relationship and how Terri’s compulsive efforts to fix the situation only exacerbated her own distress and strained their relationship.

  "I do not feel better. So I say, I got to step away from this." (25:11)

• Julie’s Reflection on “Sex and the City”

  Julie draws parallels between Miranda from Sex and the City and HFC traits, highlighting the transformative power of surrendering control in relationships.

  "When you really start to learn these things, especially if you are one. It's like if you spot it, you got it." (32:36)

Costs and Impacts of HFC

The discussion delves into the significant costs associated with HFC, both personally and in relationships:

1. Burnout and Exhaustion

   Constantly managing others' needs leads to emotional and physical exhaustion, creating a "glass ceiling" that limits personal and professional growth.

   "You can only be so successful when you're bleeding that much bandwidth." (30:00)

2. Blocked Intimacy and Relationship Strain

   Overfunctioning disrupts genuine connections, making it difficult to experience true intimacy and vulnerability.

   "It really blocks intimacy... You do not like flailing. We want everything to be neat." (21:10)

3. Existential Loneliness

   The inability to trust others or accept help fosters a profound sense of loneliness, regardless of outward success.

   "HFCs have difficulty being vulnerable... it creates an HFCS, and I've seen it thousands of times, what I call the glass ceiling of our own making." (20:55)

Solutions and Recovery Strategies

Terri provides actionable strategies for overcoming HFC patterns, emphasizing the importance of setting boundaries and shifting mindset:

1. Setting Boundaries

   Learning to say no and establishing clear boundaries is crucial for reclaiming personal energy and reducing resentment.

   "You have to be the one who says hey, I've been doing a lot of thinking and you are right. I used to be willing to do all the laundry, but now I'm no longer willing to." (45:40)

2. Asking Empowering Questions

   Terri suggests two key questions to assess whether to take on a responsibility:

   • "Do I have the bandwidth to do this without becoming resentful?"
   • "Do I even want to do it?"

   "Do I have the bandwidth to do this without becoming resentful? And the second is do I even fucking want to do it?" (35:03)

3. Mindfulness and Emotional Self-Regulation

   Incorporating mindfulness practices helps HFC individuals pause and choose responses that align with their well-being rather than automatic reactions.

   "Emotional self-regulation... How do I tolerate this feeling that to me in the beginning felt intolerable." (37:00)

4. Delegating and Allowing Others to Solve Their Own Problems

   Empowering others to take responsibility fosters healthier relationships and personal growth for both parties.

   "Instead of centering yourself as the solution to the person's problem, you're believing in them." (35:03)

Tools and Resources Offered

Towards the end of the episode, Terri introduces practical tools to assist listeners in their journey to overcome HFC:

• HFC Starter Kit

  A comprehensive toolkit that includes meditations, exercises, and video content to help individuals begin breaking free from HFC behaviors.

  "You can get [e-mail] HFC wherever you are, however long you've had this behavior, you're in the exact right place to change it now." (42:07)

• Boundary Setting Techniques

  Practical advice on how to establish and maintain healthy boundaries in various aspects of life, including family dynamics and personal relationships.

  "We can still support people... but it's asking them first. It's changing your mind about who's in charge of what." (35:03)

Conclusion

This episode of The Influencer Podcast offers a profound exploration of High Functioning Codependency, its hidden costs, and transformative strategies to cultivate healthier relationships and personal well-being. Terri Cole’s insights, backed by her extensive experience and personal anecdotes, provide listeners with the understanding and tools necessary to break free from the cycles of overfunctioning. By setting boundaries, practicing mindfulness, and empowering others, individuals can reclaim their energy, enhance intimacy, and achieve a more balanced and fulfilling life.

Listeners are encouraged to explore Terri Cole’s book, Too Much, and access the accompanying HFC Starter Kit to further support their journey toward breaking the cycle of high functioning codependency.

Notable Quotes:

• "If you have a nine year old and your nine year old comes to you with a problem... tell me what happened and then tell me what you think you should do." – Terri Cole (15:27)

• "Being fully present in our lives... doesn't have to change everything." – Terri Cole (32:36)

• "You have to be okay with disappointing other people sometimes." – Terri Cole (35:03)

• "The most important part of the story, she got into recovery. She went back to school. She never was in another abusive relationship." – Terri Cole (28:24)

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For more insights and tools discussed in this episode, visit terricole.com/HFCbook.com to access Terri Cole's resources.

Transcript

[Julie Solomon]

And really you start to kind of see how if they just give themselves the gift of surrendering and just truly seeing and loving people for who they are as they are, nothing more, nothing less. Like can they really allow themselves to experience life and relationships and what it truly means to be intimate in a whole new way? Welcome to the Influencer Podcast. I'm your host Julie Solomon. If you found yourself here, it means you are ready to unleash the powerful visionary that lives inside you, turning you into an authentic leader who creates influence, impact and change. Let's get started. Hello friends and welcome back to another episode of the Influencer Podcast. Today we have back on the podcast my dear dear friend Terri Cole. She was on the podcast a couple of years ago sharing all about her bestselling book Boundary Boss and now she is back with another must have book book called Too Much A Guide to Break through the Cycle of High Functioning Codependency. Now when I say Terri is the person to get support when it comes to this topic, I'm not lying. Not only is she a licensed psychotherapist and global relationship empowerment expert, but she has helped over the last two decades a slew of a diverse group of clients from everyone from stay at home moms to celebrities to Fortune 500 CEOs really break through a lot of their limiting beliefs and things that were holding them back so they could step in to live a life full of purpose and meaning. And she is back with her new Too Much which is all about bringing breaking the cycle of High Functioning Codependency. Now what I love about today's conversation and really Terri's book is that it is a completely different take on codependent behavior. You may know what that is, you may not know what that is. You may consider yourself a codependent or not. But but what Terri really breaks through with this idea of high functioning codependency is really revealing the underlining reasons that so many of us struggle with being everything to everyone. So if you are a person that everyone comes to when they're in a bind, if you feel like you are having to constantly accommodate others needs and preferences, if you are feeling like you know chaos will just ensue if you're not the one that handles the travel plans and divvy ups the check at group dinners and drives everybody and sorts out all the crises and it goes on and on. If these questions resonate, then the odds are pretty good that you are one of those amazing over giving, overextending individuals struggling with HFC High functioning Codependency. And Terry, who is an expert in this and boundaries and also, again, an incredible psychoanalyst therapist is here to really break down after years in her therapy practice the different behaviors of high functioning codependency and how they typically fall outside the classic model. So this is really about identifying what your HFC blueprint may be and really the source of the attraction between how we show up in our life, how we show up in our parenting dynamics, how we show up in business, and so much more. So with that, my friends get ready for an incredible conversation. And at the end, she is giving us a free toolkit that we can start utilizing to really help ourselves out of some of these unpleasurable behaviors and into really living our life to the fullest once we're able to get some better tools in our toolbox. So with that, here's Terri Cole. Hello, my friend.

[Terri Cole]

Hi.

[Julie Solomon]

The amazing Terri Cole is back on the podcast. It's been a couple of years, but she is back. My friends, not only have I gotten to know Terry over the last couple of years and do consider you such a dear friend and confident in peer in this crazy world of the online space, but I also just look to you as someone with so much wisdom in my life, to be such a resounding sound of just steadfastness, realness, openness and honesty when I need it with a slew of things. But specifically, and what we're going to be talking about today is the idea of high functioning codependency. Now you just wrote an incredible, incredible book, which of course will be in the show notes called Too Much. That really maps this out. It's a guide to breaking the cycle of high functioning codependency. But really, before we get there, I need you and all of your brilliance and your wisdom to really break down for our listeners today, really what this is. And I know that there's a couple of layers to this, but I think maybe starting there with what is this and how does it play out to someone that is listening to this podcast who would be type A personality, go getter, very high functioning in their work. They are brilliant at what they do and they are probably juggling a lot, not just in their professional lives, but in their personal lives as well, with partners and spouses and children and all of people, places and things in their lives that depend on them. So how does this play out specifically to somebody like that? And I know that you have, you have a lot of experience with somebody like that, so let's start there.

[Terri Cole]

Indeed, I Do? Well, the reason. Let's talk about the why. Right? Because when you think about codependency, for me, what inspired me to create, I coined this phrase and basically expanded on the definition. I think of it as expanding on the definition of codependency for the modern woman, because that's what we are doing, all the things for all the people. And so I had all these super high functioning women, super highly capable in my practice, and if I would point out to them, oh, hey, what you're describing, this is a codependent pattern, they would immediately reject the notion of codependency. They would immediately say, what? I'm making all the money, I'm making all the moves, everyone depends on me, so I can't possibly be codependent. Which made me realize that my clients didn't actually know what codependency was. So I'll give you my definition and then we'll talk about the traits and the behaviors and the costs and the what we can do about it to change it. So my definition is that it is you being overly invested in the feeling states, the outcomes, the circumstances, the relationships, the finances, the careers, all the things of the people in your life. But it's to the detriment of your own internal peace.

[Julie Solomon]

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[Terri Cole]

And that's a really important caveat because as mothers and lovers and partners and daughters and decent citizens, of course we're invested in the people we care about being happy. But when you're an hfc, as we call it, you feel overly responsible for the outcomes of other people. So with my there was a need for me to come up with a different way of describing this so that my therapy clients could see themselves in the problem. Because how could I help them get to a solution if they didn't think they were part of the problem? So as soon as I added high functioning to codependency and told them sort of my reconfiguration of what it actually means they could all raise their hand saying, I'm the problem, it's me. But without shame, without feeling bad about it. They were like, I am really high functioning and I am doing all the things and I am exhausted. Then we could get to work. So that's sort of the why of the definition. Because so much of the time when we think about codependency, my clients were unduly influenced by Melody Beatty's Codependent no more. You have to be enabling an alcoholic, even though that's not even what Melody Beatty says anymore. But that's sort of. There's all of these myths around codependency, like, as if you have to be weak to be codependent, which is not true at all. And so why did I know this flavor of codependency so well? Oh, because it was my own flavor of codependency in my own life. And it caused so much pain and so much stress and so much burnout. And I'm convinced that part of why I got cancer in my early 30 was connected to this over functioning and over giving and overdoing and trying to be everyone, everything for everyone. So moving into that's sort of the why of where the need came from. And it was my own realization in my own life of what was I doing. Because here's the thing, I was sort of blaming other people. Like, in my 20s in therapy, I would be like, well, if my boss just wasn't like that, or my boyfriend wasn't this, or my friend didn't do this, I was feeling very taken advantage of and, like, underappreciated in my relationships until I had a very brilliant and straightforward therapist who was like, you know, I mean, straight up, like, you are the common denominator in all of these relationships, Tara. So it can't really be other people, which is a good thing, because if it's you, then you and I can figure out how to change it. And I was like, I like that. Reframe. Let's. Let's figure it out.

[Julie Solomon]

And I want to get to the traits, behaviors, costs in a moment, but there's already an objection, because I know this listener so well that this listener is probably giving herself. And I want you to lay it out for us. And there may be a caveat here, the difference between our relationship between an adult child and a child child. And you probably know where I'm going with, with this, but I know that I have a lot of moms in my world that are probably going to sit here and say, but Terry, I am responsible for my nine year old daughter. I am, you know, my 11 year old son depends on me. Maybe I a single mom, maybe I'm the only one in their life that they can come to for everything. So I don't have the luxury to not be all of these things to this person because they literally can't function in life without me. What do you say to that?

[Terri Cole]

I say props to you, mom, because this is the hardest job in the world for sure. I've done it. I got you. And here's the thing. I want you to understand what I'm saying when I say we don't want to be doing all the things for all the people. If you have a nine year old and your nine year old comes to you with a problem, they had a fight at school, they had something. What I'm suggesting is that instead of immediately providing the plan of action to take care of the fight at school, you ask your child expansive questions. The first stop on the bus for every conversation that you have with people, if you are usually an auto advice giver, is to stop doing that because it blocks the intimacy in your relationships and it also doesn't teach your children anything. It teaches your children that you're the problem solver, not them. So instead of that, it isn't like you won't be there for them. Of course you will. But you can say, all right, tell me what happened and then tell me what you think you should do.

[Julie Solomon]

Okay. That was a beautiful kickoff into the traits, but I had to get that out soon, just out of the gate, because I want people to stay in this conversation with us and remain open. So speaking of traits, advice giver. You know, Terri, there used to be a version of me that I thought I had really, really good ideas about what everybody else should do and if they would just listen to me, the world would be a much better place. I know that that is one of the traits I would love for you to break down with us some of the other more common traits that the high functioning, codependent women tend to tend to kind of own in their day to day life.

[Terri Cole]

All right. Well, first and foremost probably would be feeling responsible for fixing other people's problems. And if you're wondering, like I wonder if I do this, I want you to think about a moment when your best friend calls with a crisis and how quickly does her crisis become your crisis? And how you can tell is you need to check your urgency. Right. When we're on the phone with our friend, if we suddenly feel the Pressure, the urgency to act, to grab a book, to contact the doctor you think she should see to. Whatever the thing is, that is a compulsive reaction. So it doesn't mean you're not going to ever help your friend. It just means that your friend's crisis is literally not yours to fix. So I'll give you. Before we're done, we'll talk more, we'll give more tips on how to shift that, but that's how you know. So feeling responsible to fix other people's problems. Giving till it hurts, which a lot of times means going above and beyond, and a lot of times doing things no one has asked you to do, share more. I mean, you could know that your sister isn't feeling good and say you swing by her apartment and you. You bring soup. Maybe she already had soup, maybe she's not hungry, maybe she has a stomachache. But you do it because you think that that's nice. I'm not saying don't do nice things. Right. But there's a reality that we may expect a decent amount of gratitude for that action that we took that they didn't ask us to take. We may feel underappreciated by them if they were kind of like, not really hungry, but thanks for swinging on by. I wish you would have texted first. Right, right. So again, we're sort of making decisions for other people based on what we think is best for them rather than respecting their sovereignty.

[Julie Solomon]

Oh, that's a good one. Does that also. Does the advice giving one also fall into that as well? Because I feel like that is something.

[Terri Cole]

I'm getting there for a lot of.

[Julie Solomon]

People, that is just even, dare I say, unconscious.

[Terri Cole]

Oh, it definitely is. This is in the basement, babe. This is in what I call the basement, which is your unconscious mind. So how. What I do in the book is I just walk you through. We literally go down those basement steps and we are uncovering these dusty boxes and what's inside so we can have a deeper understanding of why we feel compelled to do this. So auto advice giving goes right up there with feeling responsible for fixing other people's problems. And the thing is, I was the worst offender possible. Like, I was completely indiscriminate. It did not matter. I didn't even have to know you. I could overhear a conversation on a bus and I'd be like, you know, I actually know a great dermatologist in New York. Like, I couldn't literally can't stop. And a lot of times I'll get pushback online. And people would be like, maybe I'm just nice, Terry. Everything about that. And I'm like, hey, man, if you can't not do it, it ain't you being nice. It's a compulsion, just like any other compulsion. So nice is something we stop, we mindfully decide, we consider the other person instead of assuming we know what's best for them. We ask questions like, how can I best support you right now? Or I'm swinging by to pick something up for myself. Would soup be good for you right now? I'd be happy to drop it off. And if your sister says no, don't be mad. Right? If she says no, we ask, is there any way I could help? She might say, could you do a load of laundry for me because I've been sick for three days and my clothes are piling up. Sure. I want to do something that will actually make you feel cared for. Instead of checking a box of like, I did my duty, I dropped off soup that she didn't even want. It's like the husband buying the, you know, for the 25th wedding anniversary, buying tickets to the Super Bowl. You're like, oh, really? No, thank you. That gift, that was for you, not for me. You know, Anyway, moving into other, other traits. So always jumping into damage control mode because we are great in a crisis. Just so good. We just keep our cool. We know what to do. We can also get frustrated or angry when other people don't take our well heated advice. Right. We have this great advice, grade A advice. We are smart, we are excellent problem solvers. And when someone has a problem that you know if they just did what you fucking said, it would be solved, it is very frustrating. And we can kind of get, you know, get angry or frustrated when people don't take our advice because we don't feel like listening to them complain about the same shit that you could have solved last week. It's exhausting feeling exhausted, resentful or bitter. And being hyper independent is another trait.

[Julie Solomon]

Share more about that, I think, because I think it kind of goes in with what you were just saying that if we are. If, if a high functioning codependent is really, really good in a crisis, do they conscious or not create crises so that they can jump in and save the day?

[Terri Cole]

Yep, that's absolutely possible because you, you feel masterful. Right. So. And again, that would be like an unconscious sabotage in a way that's going on, but it lets you put the cape on and that can feel really good to save the day. So hyper independence HFCs have a tendency to be bad receivers. Right. That we are great givers. It is hard for us to ask for help. It is hard for us to allow. You know, part of the end of the book is about surrendering and allowing. And like, that's on the other side of getting into recovery from this affliction. Because that hyper independence also can create a feeling of existential loneliness where we don't trust other people to show up for us. And it's funny, I was talking to. I was on a really good cry pod the other day with Sati and I was talking about she's married to Jay Shetty, and we were talking about with some HFCs, they actually like me and her, both married men who are even more HFC than we are. And so sometimes you end up in that scenario. And I felt like I could only ever marry someone who was more than me so that I wouldn't end up burning out. And of course I'm in recovery now and fine. But we were both kind of laughing because I was like, I know she's in HFC with her family, but I was like, but Jay is kind of HFC too. And she was like, oh my God, totally. Because he, like planned their whole honeymoon. I was like, yeah, that's. That's not someone where you're doing all the things. Anyway, moving into the last thing with the hyper independence is that it really blocks intimacy. Because if you think about the joy that it gives you to give to others, we are denying them that. And it's so funny. Julie, you're a perfect person to talk about this with. Because my HFCness, my recovery of HFCness was very tested during this book launched because it required me to ask friends like you to do things for the book launch. So you lovingly and generously, along with two other of our friends, you know, hosted something with me in Nashville. The Even though I'm in recovery. Because it wasn't just that then. I had two New York events then, like, you know, I was asking people left and right. I did a. I did a 30 person summit. It was just hell. So point is, you can get better at it, right? In recovery. It doesn't mean it's easy to change these behaviors. It's just like me being in recovery for alcoholism, right? It's the same thing. I don't drink. Do I ever want to drink? Definitely. The only difference is I don't. And I feel like with HFC behaviors and our desire to jump in, to fix, to save, to be the hyper helper all those things, you may still feel that way initially, but what happens through this process of recovery that I walk you through is that you will have enough space, enough space between the thought and the action to choose a different action. And once you start choosing different actions, it's so satisfying, right? So you say to your kid, you're nine year old, all right, so tell me what happened, and then tell me what you think you should do. And then you sit and you listen and you realize how great your kid is, how smart your kid is, or how misguided they are. And then you guide them in the right direction. If they think they should go to school tomorrow and beat Bobby up, right? Then we say, okay, then what would happen? Then you probably get expelled or whatever. But the heavy lift that being an HFC is, you know, one of the stories I tell in the book is about, and I don't know if we talked about this last time I was on the show. Did we? About my sister's being in an abusive relationship?

[Julie Solomon]

No, not last time on the show.

[Terri Cole]

Okay. So one of my sisters was in a bad situation. She's one of my older sisters, two above me, and she was living in the woods with this guy who was doing crack. They had no running water, no electricity. She was an active alcoholic and he was abusive. So this is like an HFC's nightmare where every day of my life then was just, how am I getting her the out of there? Like, what can I do? Bawling my eyes out. And I had so much going on in my own life. I had just gotten married. I now am a bonus mom to three acting out teenage stepsons. I've. I just literally became a therapist. I had one client at this moment in time from being a talent agent. Like, my life was so happy, so full and exploding, but this thing was so painful. It was like obsessing my mind. And I remember saying, crying to my therapist and saying, I don't know what I'm going to do. Like, I've done everything. What am I going to do? And she said this, which was the pivotal moment in the beginning of things changing for me. Why do you think you know what your sister needs to learn in this lifetime and how she needs to learn it.

[Julie Solomon]

Tara, my friends, I have to let you know about a new approach to strategy that I have been doing over this last year that has helped so many of my clients this year. It is an approach that involves taking a deep dive into your business, examining every part of it, from messaging and offer flow to sales Strategies, reviewing your messaging, analyzing your offer suite, refining your sales strategies. We dive into all things like social content, email copy and everything in between. And we really talk about what your offer looks like today and how are we making sure that your offer are your offers and the messaging that you use to sell those offers are talking to each other. And then I dive deep into identifying ways to really amplify your efforts to ensure that not only your public facing messaging and marketing, but also all of the the invisible behind the scenes strategies that you need in order to scale actually work together. So if this sounds like something that you need help with, it is going to be perfect for you if you are an online educator, an online coach or an online creator who is looking to take your current business model and scale it to new heights. So I am saying for people that may be making, let's say anywhere around 5 to 10 to 15k a month right now and they're wanting to hit those big numbers, the 20k, the 30k, the 50k, the 100k months, but they're sitting here thinking, thinking, how do I make this happen? How do I keep seeing other people on the Internet do this? But I can't do this. And it really does come down to those three key things that I mentioned earlier. Your messaging, your offer suite and refining those sales strategies. And that is what is happening in my world. And so if you are interested in learning more about that, I would love for you to go to juliesolomon.net interest there's going to be a quick form there that you can fill out and from there we will see what you've got going on and see what is the best fit for you. I want to make sure to meet you where you are instead of just throwing some kind of random program at you that may not benefit you. So that's what the form is for. It's really quick to fill out. Again, that's juliesolomon.net interest if you are looking to scale your offers this year.

[Terri Cole]

And I of course was defensive and I was like, yeah, I think we can agree she doesn't need to learn it in the woods with a crackhead who beats her. I mean, Dewey, is that. Is that where she needs to learn it? Just tell me, Bev. And she was like, tara, I cannot agree because I'm not God, I don't know. But do you know what's happening for you? And I was like, clearly I do not. So help. And she said, you've worked so hard to create a harmonious life for Yourself and your sister's dumpster fire of a life is really disrupting your peace and you want your pain to end. About her situation, which was painful. It doesn't mean she knows, obviously. And I want my sister to be out of an abusive relationship. Duh, we get that part. But I had to really deal with the fact that my. All of these attempts to control what was going on and have it go the way I thought it was going to go and that it should go was way more about me than I would have liked to have thought. Right. I sort of thought I was just a lover like that, just a helper, just the one who will always step up, blah, blah, blah, blah. Not realizing how much it had to do with control. And it. Because I didn't know I had a choice, I thought, if you love your sister, you just do it until you get her out of there. And I said, what do I do instead? And this is when she introduced the whole concept of boundaries. And she was like, you need to draw a boundary. I was able to tell my sister, hey, I cannot talk with you about this guy. Because, you know, she'd get off the phone and be like, oh, my God, I feel. Always feel so much better when I talk to you. And I'm like, I always feel like fucking Chernobyl when I talk to you. So I'm like a toxic way site right now. I do not feel better. I would just bawl my eyes out for like four hours after talking to her. And I said, so I got to step away from this. But when and if you want to get out, I'll always be your person. And less than nine months later, she called and said, are you still my person? I said, yes, I am. I'm getting in my car right now. And my husband and I were able to help her appropriately. But the most important part of the story, she got into recovery. She went back to school. She never was in another abusive relationship. And this was decades ago, you guys. But instead of me, her youngest sister, being the hero of her story, she got to be the hero of her own story and got all the self esteem and the self confidence that comes from that. And that's what we can be robbing people of even when we think we're doing it from love, when we overstep because people have the right to succeed or fail or thrive or flail. But when you're an hfc, we don't like people flailing around us. We do not like flailing. We want everything to be neat. We want it to be fixed. We know that they can do better. We know they don't deserve it. We believe in them. And we think all of that gives us a right to manipulate and sort of puppet master other people's lives. And yet the cost is so great to the intimacy and the relationship, but to yourself too. Because that bandwidth that you are bleeding when you are over functioning in the world for all of these people and you've got your antennas up and the hypervigilance of like checking to make sure everyone's okay and everything is okay, this creates an hfcs, and I've seen it thousands of times, what I call the glass ceiling of our own making. Because you can only be so successful when you're bleeding that much bandwidth. You can only be so intimate in your relationships if you never really get to know the people because you're just managing the shit out of them rather than making the heart connection. Because what is the real flex, Jewel? Being able to be in the foxhole with the people we love when they're in pain and resisting the desire to fix them or tell them what we think they should do. Right? I love you enough to tolerate how painful this is for me, but I will still be here for you. Now that's the real flex, according to me.

[Julie Solomon]

It's so good. And really, I love how that really plays into, you know, there's, there's a cost to us not seeing the other side of that. And then there's this really beautiful thing of surrender. Really what it comes to is when we just allow ourselves to take the foot off the gas and surrender into that and how much beauty can really come from it. And it was, it was funny. I was actually recently re watching old episodes of Sex and the City and Miranda is a high functioning codependent to the bone. And there was an instance where she had had a child with, you know, her ex. And the cost were all these seasons and essentially all these years of her not letting other people in, her not letting other people help, her being such this control freak that it cost her potentially this love of this man named Steve that was the father of her child. And I just kind of caught up to, you know, six seasons in when she finally allows herself to just surrender to this human and just to love him for who he is. And then this, this beautiful thing that unravels. But it was reminding me of, because I knew we were getting on, on this phone soon. I was like, gosh, this is so funny how when you really start to learn these things, especially if you Are one. It's like if you spot it, you got it. You start to see it so clearly in other people. And really, you start to kind of see how if they just give themselves the gift of surrendering and just truly seeing and loving people for who they are as they are, nothing more, nothing less. Like, can they really allow themselves to experience life and relationships and what it truly means to be intimate in a whole new way. And so I would love to chat more about, you know, what's on the other side of this. I mean, we know that the cost is, you know, loneliness, you know, not really ever truly knowing that person that you live with. I'm sure there's so many other costs of that that you can. That you can share. But what is really on the other side of when we start to put more tools in our tool belt and when we really start to learn how to just make different choices. I think at the end of the day, and accepting ourselves without that guilt and shame that you mentioned earlier, part.

[Terri Cole]

Of it is you're so much happier. You have so much more energy and bandwidth. You realize by not meddling, because that's really what so much of it is, that you're actually being more loving because instead of centering yourself as the solution to the person's problem, you're believing in them. And we can still support people like we can still. You can still give your opinion if you want to. Right? But it's asking them first. It's changing your mind about who's in charge of what. The amount of bandwidth that you will gain so that you can pour into yourself, so that you can pour into your business, your life, your relationship, your friendships. Get to know your partner in a much more intimate way. Let them know you when we start to. Because here's the thing. HFCs have difficulty being vulnerable because what does it mean that we don't like to let people do things for us. This also affects us in sexual ways. It can. If you're very controlling, you can be very controlling in the bedroom, too. And there's. I've. So many of my clients have come in and just sort of been like, sex just becomes like checking a box. Like, I feel like I want to do it once a week. Yes, maybe I get off. He gets off great. But it's. They're not really there. There's a fear of the vulnerability. And so you have that to look forward to, to actually becoming embodied. Because what ends up happening with HFC is that we live so much here because it's not Just auto advice giving and auto accommodating. There's also anticipatory planning where if you know you're going to be with difficult people or if you know you're going to do something, we're planning all the ways to make sure there's not conflict. Like we're just such peace seekers. Like we just want peace in the backyard, the bedroom, the valley, all the places. We just want everyone to be happy and for there to be peace. But there's so much living here that we're. It's like you're experiencing what I've named it life light, like lite, because things don't hit in the same way because we are not fully present. So life is about half as juicy and delicious and impactful than it should be if you are more present and embodied in what you're doing. So on the other side, when we stop with the compulsive behavior, when we learn to pause, when we take a break, when we bring mindfulness in, you know, there's a whole chapter in the book about emotional self regulation. How, how do I tolerate this feeling that to me in the beginning felt intolerable. I was like, I can't even stand this. When you're in hfc, when you have feelings you don't like, we get into action, we do something. We do not like people wallowing. We do not like people who are not doing something to solve their problems and we will help them. So part of that is when you're stepping away from that, you have all of this expansion and it's kind of like if you want to think of it as a visual where when you're an active hfc, it's like you're swimming upstream, expelling so much energy. You know, you're swimming and swimming and you look and there's a tree and then you're swimming and swimming and you look in the same fucking tree. It's like because you're going upstream, you're just not really making all this headway. And when you actually get into recovery, it's like flipping over and floating. It's like you're going with the flow of life now, the way you're laying back, you can see everything, you can experience everything, you can appreciate the beauty because you're not so hell bent on controlling everything. And it takes courage to let the chips fall where they may when they're not your chips. Right? That's really what we're looking at on the other side is being fully present in our lives. And so two of the things that I think could be helpful for anybody who wants to get into recovery but isn't sure how well, one, I have a gift for you. I gave you an HFC starter kit I'll tell you about later. But right now, before you agree to anything, before you automatically do anything, you're going to ask yourself two questions. One, do I have the bandwidth to do this without becoming resentful? And here's the thing, I'm not talking about the mom with the nine year old, you got to go pick that kid up from school whether you become resentful or not. Because that's what, that's your karmic pact. That's what you agreed to do when you had that child. So I'm not talking about things that we actually must do. I'm talking about other things. I'm talking about things that we do voluntarily. I'm talking about things that we've sort of automatically taken on as our job when maybe they don't really need to be. So the first question is do I have the bandwidth to do this without becoming resentful? And the second is do I even fucking want to do it? Because so much of the time as HFCs, if someone else wants us to, because we're super high functioning people pleasers to a degree, if they want us to, we feel like we should, we feel like we must, we feel obligated. There's so much obligation to people who really haven't earned it. But it's, it's a compulsive behavior. We just feel, we feel bad, we don't want people to be mad, we don't want to be rejected. So another part of this process of getting to the other side is learning to disappoint. You know, Cheryl Richardson has a book called Let me disappoint you. And I feel like we can take a page out of that book and realize that it's not the worst thing. And if you're not going to self abandon all day long, which is as hfcs we do this often, you're going to have to be okay with disappointing other people sometimes.

[Julie Solomon]

God, those are two such good questions. I feel like I need to write them down at my desk, look at them multiple times throughout the day. Because when you, when you're in such a pattern of just I do for others what they can do for themselves. I just do it better. So I do it or you know, if I want it done right, I might as well do it myself. Oh yeah, you know, if I, it.

[Terri Cole]

Has to be me, this person to.

[Julie Solomon]

Do it, they're gonna, you know, eff it up, so I might as well just do it. But it is, it's. It's that consciousness and really having to learn how to be, how to pause and be present in those moments. And so those questions are super key. Please share with us. I know that you have, you know, a workbook of sorts that we can start diving into to kind of start gearing into some of this pre work that really complements a lot of what we learn inside the book. I would love for you to share that too with our listeners as well.

[Terri Cole]

Yes, it's just an HFC starter kit, basically, because it's. It helps you do less. I've also have a meditation in there, there's a video. There's a little exercise that you can do to just sort of get you in the right frame of mind because. And anyway, you can get [e-mail] HFC wherever you are, however long you've had this behavior, you're in the exact right place to change it now. So it's one right action and then the next right action. That's all you need to think about, not further right. We don't have to change everything. We don't have to change everyone. We don't have to fully change ourselves. All we're doing is changing behaviors that are not aligned with our highest and best, with what we're trying to create. And you will be shocked at how different you feel on the other side. You know, Jules, something I noticed in my practice and in myself, women getting into perimenopause and menopause, there are so many other things pulling at you during that time because there's so much physical changes happening in your life that if we don't handle this consciously, actively, willfully, mindfully, we end up hitting a wall. And it's like we go from. And I've seen the cycle so many times. It's like giving too many Fs to too many people for too long and then slamming into the wall and having zero Fs to give. Where people hit that burnout wall and they're like, I don't get. And then it's not like I don't care. I'll let the chips fall where they may. It's like, I don't give a fuck. But I'm so angry about that. I can't control this situation or these people or all my effort is not paying off in things being the way that I want them to be. And that's where the acceptance and the surrender piece really comes in. And we just have to. The moment that you start thinking, I don't want them to think or I don't want them to feel, I just need you to back your little hiney up to your own side of the street. Because how someone else thinks and how someone else feels is their side of the street. You have to be concerned with how you think and how you feel. Because ultimately the biggest takeaway from this book is that what you think, what you want, and how you feel matters. And it has to matter to you more than what anyone in the world wants, thinks, or feels. And most of us don't live that way.

[Julie Solomon]

That is so, so good. One more question before we wrap this up, because I could see this playing out in the sense of when you start using these tools, does it allow you to really start taking stock of what is actually truly important in your life? And I'll give you an example. You know, I. I could, you know, bet you know, someone listening to this, a situation that may be similar is they could be saying, well, but no one cleans my house the way that I do it. So if I want it done, then I'm going to have to do it. But if I'm exhausted from having to be the one that's responsible, from constantly picking up after everybody else, then I guess one choice I could have is not cleaning the house. But then I have to be okay with the fact that the house might. Might not be as clean as I think that it should be. And so when you get to those kinds of. And that's just a random example.

[Terri Cole]

Is this a great example, though? Yeah.

[Julie Solomon]

We're really inviting in this new opportunity to learn how important is it really to our serenity, to our peace, to how we communicate. You know, kind of walk us through, I guess, the. If it is an invitation, that invitation that comes from something like that.

[Terri Cole]

Okay, so part of it is, as Janny Cole, my mother would tell you, if you need everything done exactly your way, you'll end up like her, doing it all and doing it all by yourself. So part of it is we have to hire people. If you can, if you have the money to hire someone to clean your house or delegate, right. You can share it and realize maybe it won't be exactly as you would do it. And that's okay, because life is not perfect. So there's that you have to look at if you live. When I. When I inherited three teenage sons and I lived in a huge house with them, but they were all slobs and I couldn't stand it. I had a, we had a family meeting and I was like, here's the thing, I do not work for you and the common. I don't care how you keep your rooms, but the common area of the house has got to be kept picked up. And if you don't, you are giving me permission. If there's anything left in the common space in the house, I have permission to open your door and just throw it in as hard as I possibly can. Which is exactly what I would do. So that solution may not work for other people. It worked for me because. And they mostly kept their crap in their room. Mostly. And if they didn't, I picked it up and threw it in their room because for my mental health I cannot be in a cluttered house. It does not work for me. So again, I wasn't willing to be there made and but we had to strike some kind of a compromise because they were teenage boys so they weren't going to be perfect. So I think that. But we also have to have family meetings and family rules and there's ways of having more equitability within the home structure because remember, part of the problem with HFCS is that we over function, we do too much and then become resentful. But you can renegotiate what you've agreed to at any point. Even though people are not going to like it. Of course they liked it better when you did everything. Obviously it's easier for them. But if it isn't better for you, then you have to be the one who says hey, I've been doing a lot of thinking and you are right. I used to be willing to do all the laundry, but now that you guys are 12 and 15, I'm no longer willing to because you are perfectly capable. So on Saturday I'm going to show you exactly how to use the washer. And there'll be instructions right next to it, you know, labeled. And you guys are going to handle your own wash. Like it's also appropriate to not infantilize kids. Right? You want to give them age appropriate things to do so they become feel competent and they become masterful in their world. So there's lots of good things that come out of this too.

[Julie Solomon]

Well, that was so good. Well, thank you for allowing me to use that example. And then if you can please share one more time where we can find the toolkit. For those listening, I want you to run, don't walk to get this. This is such a gift coming from Terry and just her immense knowledge and wisdom that she has to share. So please share that with us one more time.

[Terri Cole]

Go to terricole.com HFC and then you can get the [e-mail] with all of the bonuses, which I've got at a whole slew of bonuses that are still there and will be there the whole time. So I think that you guys are going to love the book. I hope so. I walk you through step by step because the exhaustion or the resentment or the burnout that you're feeling, it really is reversible. Like I've helped tens of thousands of people over my 27 year career reverse it and now I put it into a book so you can too.

[Julie Solomon]

And I just want to say as a personal side note for everyone because there's so many great examples that I mean, Terry pulls from past clients and stories and so much there. And there's also just a lot of really applicable step by steps, if you will. This is the kind of book that you want the hard copy for because you're going to want to get your highlighter out and your pen out and you're going to want to underline and you're going to want to dog ear and you're going to want to do all of those things and then you can download the toolkit to really complement what you're working through. But this is the kind of, I don't say that about every book, but like this is the kind of book that you're going to want the hard copy for to really walk through the tools that you're going to be taking with you throughout this process. So we're going to make sure to have the link to where you can get the book and the toolkit in the show, notes Terri. As always, thank you, thank you, thank you for your wisdom, your light, your lessons, your love, your acceptance, and we are so lucky to have you here to share this immense and much needed work.

[Terri Cole]

Oh, thanks Jewel. I love you my friend.

[Julie Solomon]

As always, thank you so much for joining me today and every week here on the Influencer Podcast. If you're wanting to dive deeper into the topics and discussions that we have here, I would encourage you to head over to juliesolomon.net and sign up for my weekly newsletter. It is in our amazing newsletter community that we are able to really support you on a much larger scale and I love to do a ton of amazing things that I send inside your inbox every single week. So just head over to juliesolomon.net you'll see a little spot there that you can add your information in and you will get on the list and start receiving all of that good stuff.