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- [00:05]
Leslie Heaney
Hello, everyone. This is Leslie, and you're listening to the interview with Leslie Heaney. Today I'm thrilled to be speaking with celebrity interior designer Vicky Charles. Vicky leads the juggernaut design Firm Charles & Company, consistently voted as one of Architectural Digest Top 100 Interior Design Firms, with offices in New York, London, and Boss, Italy. Having worked as the design director at Sohouse for 20 years, Vicki's reputation for defining the Sohouse aesthetic precedes her, as does the amazing and incredible interiors that she's designed for her celebrity clients that include the Clooneys, the Beckhams, Mila Kunis and Ashton Kutcher, Harry Styles. And those are just the ones that we know about. The list, trust me, goes on and on. In this episode, Vicki and I talk about her incredible career, how she got started from waiting tables to working her way through the ranks to becoming the design director at the Soho House, to her following her passions, to her design inspirations, to her balancing work and family and what's next for Vicky Charles? I learned so much from Vicki about how a person should approach both their career and their life. I enjoyed every minute of my conversation with her, and I know that you will, too. Vicki, I'm so happy to see you. Vicki not only is so kind and wonderful to agree to do this and talk to me today, but she also is right off of Times Square in the middle of a Tuesday, and I was seven minutes late coming from uptown.
- [01:39]
Vicky Charles
So it's gonna be. I'm kind of in a bad mood about it.
- [01:41]
Leslie Heaney
I know you should be in a bad mood.
- [01:43]
Vicky Charles
Chances.
- [01:44]
Leslie Heaney
I'm like, yeah, like, asking your friend to come do this. And then you're like, it's always a good.
- [01:49]
Vicky Charles
It's always a good way to take things off, take the opportunity to hang out with you.
- [01:52]
Leslie Heaney
You're so sweet. We were just talking about Chatt, about our families. Vicki and our good friends from the Millbrook area where she lives with her family. And our kids were at the same school. We've recently moved to Nashville. But it's just so great, so great to see you. And I can't wait to talk to you about what you do outside of the context of me knowing you in your home and with your family, which is you as an interior designer. Was this something. I mean, growing up, did you always dream or have an affinity for interiors?
- [02:24]
Vicky Charles
The industry existed, like, no idea about it. I mean, I grew up in the countryside in Gloucestershire. My dad was a policeman. My mom worked for a local solicitor, and they went to the hardware store to choose their paint colors and duvets, you know, duvet colors. I had no ideas, no idea about this world. I was always arranging my bedroom furniture.
- [02:48]
Leslie Heaney
I was going to ask you, do you arrange things or pick colors or just.
- [02:52]
Vicky Charles
Yeah, I was always kind of moving things around, but that was kind of. I didn't know you could make a living from it. I totally fell into the industry accidentally.
- [03:01]
Leslie Heaney
Well, tell us about that. Because you went to university.
- [03:04]
Vicky Charles
Went to university, studied fine art and English literature.
- [03:08]
Leslie Heaney
So you did sort of have a affinity for them.
- [03:11]
Vicky Charles
And I loved the art studio at school. Everybody cool hung out in the art studio doing, who knows, nothing you can ever make any money from, and then finish school and had no idea what I wanted to do. Got a job in some ad agency and the receptionist. But then I ended up needing, obviously, more money, huge debt from being a student, and ended up waiting tables for a restaurant that was owned by sohouse back then called Caffeboham in Oxfordshire. And, yeah, I just waited tables to make extra money and just happened to work with somebody who was an entrepreneur and starting so as around the country.
- [03:50]
Leslie Heaney
But was he like, you like the way you fold the napkin, the way you.
- [03:54]
Vicky Charles
It's nothing to do with your color traces of napkins? No, not at all. I ended up and, you know, sore house was fun and growing right then. And right then, back then, they used to do a party in the Cannes film festival, and they used to rent a boat in Cannes, and we'd all go out there and we'd wait tables for this week in Cannes. And we used to make enough money and get the night train from Nice to Rome afterwards, and then spend this kind of month bumming around Italy, then end up back in London with no money and go back to waiting tables. My mom's. Her head was spinning off her body because I was, you know, meant to go to university. And meanwhile I'm waiting tables in London. And I think. And then my job kind of evolved as sohouse was growing to organize these parties for the Cannes film festival. And then we used to do three for the ad festival and the film festival. And my job was really the party planning. And that's kind of how I fell into the design world, because I would say pretty much 30% of it is design, and the rest of it is budget and logistics.
- [04:57]
Leslie Heaney
Right.
- [04:57]
Vicky Charles
And so a lot of what I learned from event planning applies to what I do now, you know, with then when so house was coming to the US we used to organize lots of parties for the Oscars. And so that Date never moved. You know, so you had to turn someone's house into a. Something that looked like so house. And so my job was to decorate, kind of set it up, organize all the bartenders, the kitchens, the chefs, the furniture and turn. Do this house for parties all week for the Oscar events. And so that was kind of a big part of the job was just.
- [05:31]
Leslie Heaney
Wait, so take me back. So you're. I'm so, so sewing house had so started in London. No, so it.
- [05:37]
Vicky Charles
So house started in London, 1995. I had started working there in 97.
- [05:40]
Leslie Heaney
Okay.
- [05:41]
Vicky Charles
In London. Yeah. So they had Oxford and then moved to London to see the house. And then I think it was 2002 or 2003, they moved to New York. That's when I moved to New York with them. But before they went into any other city, which was LA was next. We used to host parties in those.
- [05:56]
Leslie Heaney
Cities before we'd write sort of like a pop up.
- [05:59]
Vicky Charles
Pop up, exactly. To try and like get members.
- [06:01]
Leslie Heaney
So you would rent somebody's house in.
- [06:03]
Vicky Charles
LA and rent these homes in the Hollywood Hills and redecorate them to look like a Sohouse back then. And then we would host the after parties for the Oscars.
- [06:13]
Leslie Heaney
So who's. Who was doing the design for the Soho House then? Or was that.
- [06:16]
Vicky Charles
That was me doing these houses.
- [06:18]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah.
- [06:18]
Vicky Charles
So we'd just take over a house because it was always on a budget because it was such a big expense, because everything was free in this house. We used to host all these parties and have different sponsors and different film companies would throw these parties for the week. And so we used to just decorate these houses to look like so house wallpaper. Build temporary kitchens in the parking lot, in the garage. And then we have to redecorate it and put it all back again when we rolled out of town. So we did that for three or four years.
- [06:45]
Leslie Heaney
So was there like a warehouse where you would store all the sewers furniture or was it just. We just like.
- [06:49]
Vicky Charles
We used to tap on suppliers like so house, you know. Cause we were always opening new houses at the time. So someone like George Smith, which is a very old English furniture. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We used to call George Smith and say, can we borrow? We promise we won't damage them.
- [07:04]
Leslie Heaney
Actually you can see Vicky's face. I forgot we're taping. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Trash them.
- [07:09]
Vicky Charles
And we'd borrow furniture, we'd borrow antiques. There's so many prop houses in la. We just to borrow things and put it together and then return it all. Actually we used to do them for Art Basel as well in Miami before. So House Miami.
- [07:22]
Leslie Heaney
So was that part of your. Sohouse's way of testing a market was.
- [07:26]
Vicky Charles
Just doing pop ups. They kind of knew they were going into it, but it was to get the membership, like the membership community started. So you'd start to like Cassara. House's membership is based on like there were founder members and then founder members would find the next members. So it'd be like this kind of hosting events for future members.
- [07:45]
Leslie Heaney
But when you were building these, building out these houses to replicate that Sohouse, I guess in London, right. That's sort of the flagship. There was a designer there then at the time who set the. Who did the original design for that Sohouse.
- [07:58]
Vicky Charles
It was like the wild west by then. There wasn't anything structural or anything.
- [08:02]
Leslie Heaney
So they're like, Vicki, Vicky, like, we need you to figure this out.
- [08:06]
Vicky Charles
Yeah, exactly. And I just. Nick Jones, who owns Sohouse, the founder of Sohouse, is an amazing man. He is. And I've learned so much from him in terms of like, if you want to do something, you do it. You say yes and you just do it and you get it done and you own it. He doesn't look at your qualifications and can you draw, you just. And so it was like, great Vix. You do it, you want to do it, you do it and you just did it and it was great. You got to do the next one. And that was kind of the company ethos at the time.
- [08:34]
Leslie Heaney
That's so interesting. I interviewed a friend, Adir Abraje. I listened to them and he like, same thing, right? He's like, you know, he was asked by Stone Temple Pilots, I'm going to get it wrong.
- [08:46]
Vicky Charles
No, I. Whatever band it was, yeah, it resonated.
- [08:49]
Leslie Heaney
And he didn't know, right. He's like, I've never done a shoot before. I've never left the salon. I'm just going to say yes. And so you just sort of said yes and that.
- [08:59]
Vicky Charles
Honestly, I think that's my. The biggest advice I could give anyone is just say yes, lean into it, you can do it. If somebody else gives you an opportunity, you jump at it. Don't let fear get in the way. Or just to my former self, my younger self, we just say it's all going to work out.
- [09:15]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah.
- [09:16]
Vicky Charles
Worry is a completely pointless emotion. Say yes to things, Take every opportunity and it all works out and just go do it.
- [09:23]
Leslie Heaney
But it sounds like that was the culture you're saying and a great place to work. Right. Having him have that confidence in you. And.
- [09:30]
Vicky Charles
And the other. Some of my closest friends now, I think, you know, some of them, Pierre, or some of the people I worked with, we all kind of grew up in the industry together. We were having such a great time. And you just worked really hard and you just said yes. And we did really fun things like the film festivals, we traveled. We were. So houses expanding. My. My job as I moved out the operation and more into design, which was very gradual. I get to see all these incredible buildings all over the world as he's looking to expand. So houses from Istanbul to Berlin to Barcelona to Madrid to Chicago, all the locations that so House would go into. We'd probably look at about 10, 20 buildings before they found the right one. I was part of the design process. So Nick, whenever you go into a new town, he'd want to. So whenever he saw a new building, the best advice I would say to anyone who's looking at a building is you always go up to the roof. That's the first thing he would do. So you'd go into a city, there'd be a list of buildings or deals would come across, and people would be obviously interested in working with a solar house. The bigger it got. So he'd always go up to the roof of a building. You could understand its location. Also the floor plan. You know, you could see how big it was. So we'd go up and then we'd talk about, like, the soul of the building. Is there something that feels good here? Like, can we make it into something? Is there? And then, you know, like, how does this building feel? Is there original things we want to work with? And you get to see some amazing old buildings that were renovated.
- [10:59]
Leslie Heaney
His idea there, that just. Was it to get a feel for the building or was it also to be like, you know, there's an empty lot there, someone could build something that could block a view or whatever. He was looking at all the factors.
- [11:08]
Vicky Charles
So look at the outside and then you go in. But we would see some amazing lots and travel around with him. And then, you know, then the money men take over to make sure it worked. But I was part of the original.
- [11:20]
Leslie Heaney
So you were, as you've just described, like you were not formally trained in any way.
- [11:25]
Vicky Charles
So it's totally winging it.
- [11:26]
Leslie Heaney
It's like trial and error. Trial. Yeah, exactly.
- [11:29]
Vicky Charles
And just experience, you know, it's very gradual. So House worked with Ilse Crawford is probably the first designer that put so House on the map, and she was the one who did Babington. House originally. And her. She kind of revelationized the country hotel in England. You know, it was about these beautiful old country houses that you go and stay at. There were hotels, but they still have carpet in the bathrooms and, you know, blankets on the bed and no doobies. And she was like, why can't you get a cappuccino in a country hotel? And why does it have to have stuffy furniture and look like an old people's home? So she put. She was the one who put the bathtub in the bedroom, which became a sow house, you know, trait. She. She was the one who started to talk about how you feel in your inner room. And the bathtub in the bedroom is a lot about, like, social grooming and kind of, like the romance of that kind of taking a cocktail in a bathtub, looking out the window while your partner's in bed. You know, it was like, starting to talk about how people live in her spaces. And so she did the original one, and then she did so House New York. And I came over to do Open Sour House New York as an operator, as the floor manager back then. And so I learned a lot from her, watching how she worked. So. So House would work with different designers during that period. And then I just got to kind of. I was like the person who kind of coordinated that from the inside.
- [12:54]
Leslie Heaney
But was that. Would you say that. That. That aesthetic, just sort of understanding how people want to visit a place or stay in a place today is sort of where Sewhouse was coming from. And then you sort of took it from there based on kind of her early values around that.
- [13:14]
Vicky Charles
I think that was something that Nick. I mean, so House was an interesting design challenge, and it still is, because it's essentially by being a member's club, it's the same people who use it every day. So you're designing, but for the same kind of person, regardless of the locations, whether Storehouse Barcelona, Storehouse New York. They look very different, but they're being designed for the same person. So it's like you have multiple. Like a home in the country or a home in the city. So you're kind of thinking about it like, well, how am I using the space day to day? You know, I want to be on my laptop back then. I mean, you can't do that anymore, but used to be able to and then have a cocktail and meet a friend later. So it would. We'd be thinking about the design in terms of very functional because it's being used by the same person and how they want to or, you know, go away for the weekend or all the kind of things you want to do in it. But then it was kind of tailored by location, if that makes sense.
- [14:08]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah, no, absolutely.
- [14:09]
Vicky Charles
Like, it sort of was that approach that kind of guided everything that I learned back then and then.
- [14:15]
Leslie Heaney
Was there any, like, big mistake that you made or something that was sort of like, thanks to that, that I will never do that again?
- [14:23]
Vicky Charles
I mean, always, you know, just every single house, because it was the same team always doing it, had to be better than the last one. Not terms of. I don't think you can judge aesthetics because everybody has their favorite in terms of the way it looks. And some people like red and some people don't. But kind of like the bar design, does it function? Does everything operate in the same better than the last one? Like, what did we learn? What were the mistakes from the last one? And I think it's probably the same now. The only time I make a mistake is when I don't truly listen. You know, where you get thrown off course by somebody else's opinion.
- [14:55]
Leslie Heaney
Oh, don't listen to your gut in your own stuff.
- [14:58]
Vicky Charles
Exactly.
- [14:59]
Leslie Heaney
Not like the carpenter who's like, you can't. It's not gonna fit through the door. Like, not that you mean sort of more.
- [15:04]
Vicky Charles
No, I mean, there's so many of those stories that things went wrong. I mean, we've seen. I've seen it all. Like when a custom sofa's been built for a wall and it doesn't fit, and then you realize that you changed the wall dimensions two weeks ago. We forgot to tell the sofa. Yeah, guys. And the amount of that don't fit through doorways and hoisted up a side of buildings, getting through windows, like, seen everything. And things have been delayed and lost. And so you sort of.
- [15:29]
Leslie Heaney
You helped build this global brand, right. And that just has such an incredible reputation. And then at some point, you decided you wanted to leave the Soho nest and go out on your own. What was the. What was your thinking behind that?
- [15:47]
Vicky Charles
You know, and it was. It was very accidental in a way. I think I just turned 40, and I was having dinner with Nick and really good friends who Julia and James. And James said to me, so, are you going to spend the next 20 years working at Sohouse? Because I just came up on my 20 years, or I was close to 20 years at working at Sohouse, and I was like, oh, my God, I'm going to be the oldest person here.
- [16:11]
Leslie Heaney
Like, all these kids, it does keep you young, though, when they're shoot Me.
- [16:17]
Vicky Charles
You know, how is that gonna happen? And it was just. By then we. I'd started doing private clients for so house. We got a few calls saying, can you do my home?
- [16:28]
Leslie Heaney
Oh, the home at one of the Sohouse properties.
- [16:31]
Vicky Charles
No, just private clients would say, I love so house. Can Vicky, can you do my own house?
- [16:35]
Leslie Heaney
Okay.
- [16:36]
Vicky Charles
And I was like, well, I worked for another guy. And then Nick would be like, oh, great. So house will do your house for you.
- [16:41]
Leslie Heaney
Okay.
- [16:41]
Vicky Charles
And I would do it. So I kind of learned how to do other people's houses through while still working at Sohouse. It wasn't just all so house. And we did a couple of other hotels as well. It became a revenue source because we could charge design fees.
- [16:57]
Leslie Heaney
Right.
- [16:59]
Vicky Charles
And then at that point I was like, why am I doing it for you when I could be doing it for myself? I think it was just time. It was 20 years of working there.
- [17:07]
Leslie Heaney
Well, then you also can set your own schedule and decide what projects you're.
- [17:10]
Vicky Charles
Taking and all those things. And I think something happens when you're a woman and you just. Just hit your 40s. You're not having any more kids. And so there's a bit of a life decision moments that comes on at 40, I think.
- [17:20]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah.
- [17:21]
Vicky Charles
You know, it's like, yeah, what's the plan now? There's no more breeding. You know, shop is shut. You know, like, what does the next 20 years.
- [17:28]
Leslie Heaney
What's the post breeding plan? I know we all go through the question of what's the post breeding plan?
- [17:32]
Vicky Charles
Totally. And what does the next 20 years look like? It's. You've learned your trade.
- [17:36]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah, I know.
- [17:37]
Vicky Charles
I know what to do, what I'm doing. I know my kids are now not babies anymore. They're at school, like, what do I want to do for the next 20 years? And then you work for somebody else.
- [17:46]
Leslie Heaney
Your 12 year old, as we were discussing before we started, is ready to. You know, as long as she has her driver's license, she's ready to.
- [17:51]
Vicky Charles
She does not need me. She said recently, it's so annoying that I still need you until I learn to drive.
- [17:57]
Leslie Heaney
I mean, she's. We're having Ava on the podcast next, just so listeners know.
- [18:01]
Vicky Charles
Brace yourself.
- [18:02]
Leslie Heaney
But. So you have a partner that's part of Charles and Company. Tell me, how did you and she meet and how did you decide to bring a partner on and what was your thinking there?
- [18:10]
Vicky Charles
So Julia and I were really, really good friends. Introduced by Nick from Sohouse when she moved to New York. When James is on Broadway Here. And we both had babies. I think Max was about a year old And Will was 2. Ava was maybe 8 weeks old. And we met as friends and she just moved to New York City as a new mom and didn't know anything. And I just met her to give her my pediatrician's phone number. And so we were just really good friends. And around, you know, five years later, I was ready to leave. And she was just like, well, I'll help you. And it's. And when you start your own business, any advice to anyone? It's. The scary things are actually the really easy things. I was like, well, how do I get set up for taxes and how do I pay and how do I register? And all those things were so overwhelming to me. Not actually doing the day job was fine. I could do that. This. She kind of just helped me.
- [19:03]
Leslie Heaney
But did she background. So you mentioned that she was in town because her husband was on Broadway. Her husband is James Corden. I don't even know how you describe James Corden. He go. Is sort of a. Not really an actor.
- [19:13]
Vicky Charles
Writer. Producer.
- [19:14]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah, producer. Talk show.
- [19:15]
Vicky Charles
Incredible host.
- [19:16]
Leslie Heaney
Talented, hardworking, great singer. I mean.
- [19:19]
Vicky Charles
And let's talk about what he can't do.
- [19:20]
Leslie Heaney
It's like, you know, car karaoke, which I love. I mean, that's. Yeah, that I do love his car karaoke. You know, being a karaoke karaoke addict myself, so. But she had a background in banking or.
- [19:32]
Vicky Charles
No, she was a documentary film producer.
- [19:34]
Leslie Heaney
Oh, she was okay.
- [19:35]
Vicky Charles
But nothing really in design. And she doesn't really get involved in the day to day of the design. She's more. She's much more behind the scenes and really kind of helps. It's lonely when you run a business by yourself. So she helps me.
- [19:47]
Leslie Heaney
Well, just to bounce things, ideas off of or walk through things and just.
- [19:51]
Vicky Charles
Navigate kind of the company, what we do, what we don't want to do. I'm incredibly press shy and Julia as much, but helps me position the company in the right way and try and stay under the radar a little bit.
- [20:06]
Leslie Heaney
Well, we're going to get to that in a second because you are very under the radar. Your discretion, I think, is one of the things that your clients love. But she's based out of la, right?
- [20:16]
Vicky Charles
No, London. They just moved back to London.
- [20:17]
Leslie Heaney
Oh, London.
- [20:18]
Vicky Charles
But we started the company when she was in la.
- [20:20]
Leslie Heaney
Okay.
- [20:20]
Vicky Charles
And you were in New York and we. Yeah, I was in New York. And then she got pregnant again and had another baby. So she kind of took a bit more of a back seat and then she just recently moved back to London, so. So.
- [20:33]
Leslie Heaney
And you're like your main office. You have an office here. It sounds like you have an office in London.
- [20:37]
Vicky Charles
We have an office in head offices in New York. We have an office, a registered company in London and we have an office in Italy, in town. Wow. Yeah.
- [20:46]
Leslie Heaney
So how many employees do you have at this point?
- [20:48]
Vicky Charles
I think there's about 20 of us, roughly. Yeah, there's 20 of us between London, Italy and New York. Yeah.
- [20:55]
Leslie Heaney
I mean, just hearing about your. Well, you don't tell me anything about your projects, but your schedule of all the different projects and the places that you're visiting and you know, one of the things that's really interesting we said for, you know, a minute ago about your discretion. But you. Your website, you know, says Charles and.
- [21:09]
Vicky Charles
Company, it's a money laundering company.
- [21:10]
Leslie Heaney
I mean, it is a good thing about it. No, there are no, there's nothing.
- [21:17]
Vicky Charles
It needs to be redone. It's on.
- [21:18]
Leslie Heaney
No, it doesn't. I think it's actually, you know, just. I think it's. It just hits the nail right on the head, right, about sort of how you run your business in that. And you talked about it a little bit earlier when you're talking about sohouse, you know, wanting to kind of reflect the place that it is and the people that are using it. It's so specific. Right.
- [21:41]
Vicky Charles
Or I work really closely with a client on how they are their version or what they want home to be. And so they won't find that in somebody else's house. They might say, oh, I like a bit of this, I like a bit of that, or what I don't like if they look at a portfolio. So first of all, I'm a word of mouth business. Like, it's that you're only as good as your last house, you know, essentially. And it's a relationship that you build with people who are in the relationship business. So it takes a long time. I mean, I'm really lucky that I would say 70% of my clients are repeat. So I just have this long relationship working with people because once you get to know how their family and they intimately live, that's a lot of work and trust. So once you've built that trust, you can take. And that's the wonderful thing about design is even though I may be doing it for the same person, like their home in Montana to their home in Miami is really different just because how they use it, the location, the architecture, so it's not like repeating and how they're evolving.
- [22:42]
Leslie Heaney
Maybe you need ADA compliant doors.
- [22:44]
Vicky Charles
Exactly. Grandchildren, bunk beds. You know, the gym has got smaller, the gym gets bigger. The closets always do this.
- [22:51]
Leslie Heaney
We just had a friend who just redid his bathroom in Nashville and he was describing to Andrew how he. We're 50, all of us are 50.
- [22:59]
Vicky Charles
That's right.
- [22:59]
Leslie Heaney
He put in ADA doors. He got a toto because in case he needs help with that, I'm like, wait a second, are we really proofing? Right. He's really thinking ahead.
- [23:08]
Vicky Charles
That's part of my job is I'm future proofing. Like, what is wrong with how you're currently living?
- [23:13]
Leslie Heaney
Future proofing.
- [23:14]
Vicky Charles
And then like, let's talk about future you. Because you wouldn't be talking to me if you weren't. Like, if something wasn't correct in your life.
- [23:20]
Leslie Heaney
So what's your. So in that. With that 30% of new clients. Right.
- [23:24]
Vicky Charles
Who.
- [23:25]
Leslie Heaney
And it sounds like once you become a client, you are definitely going to be a. You know, you've got a lot of repeat clients. Right. You obviously are looking at the. Where it is. You mentioned that where is on the.
- [23:36]
Vicky Charles
Current flight path, because that's really helpful. Oh, yeah. Logistics.
- [23:41]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah, exactly. I don't.
- [23:42]
Vicky Charles
New York, London.
- [23:44]
Leslie Heaney
Yes. Some places are off limits, depending on where there's flights or how many days.
- [23:50]
Vicky Charles
Would it take me to get there, that I'm interested or like, how close.
- [23:53]
Leslie Heaney
Is that to the other project that I'm working on. But will you say there's sort of questions that you want to ask them to get to know them or you want to. What is the.
- [24:03]
Vicky Charles
You have to. And I think it's like first dates. Right. So you kind of. You get to know. And luckily I have a studio director, Sophie, who's a really old friend and she takes all the first interviews to see if there's a sense of humor there or if there's a real person that you're engaging with. Because we don't. I'm not going to get the best work either way. If you go through multiple layers of assistance because the message gets diluted. So you have to have that relationship with the decision maker. And so we. And then it's like a first date, you know, like, do we have anything in common? Are we going to. Can we communicate? Do I like. Do we like each other? Because as you know, if you've done this before, it's a lot of money, something goes wrong.
- [24:46]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah.
- [24:46]
Vicky Charles
So like, yeah, this is the honeymoon and we're so excited to talk to each other and share all these dreams and we could do this and it's going to be amazing. And then there's always the reality check of budget or the permits or something goes wrong. So when something goes wrong, I want to still be able to talk to you and say, hey, Leslie, they smashed that vintage thing. Like, I know, I know you're ready to kill them and kill me, but let's.
- [25:12]
Leslie Heaney
But it's important, you know, we have.
- [25:14]
Vicky Charles
To be able to talk to each other.
- [25:16]
Leslie Heaney
You said you're all word of mouth, right. So you're getting referrals from friends of friends. But that's really important too, right, to know that.
- [25:22]
Vicky Charles
Does that happens all the time?
- [25:23]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah.
- [25:24]
Vicky Charles
And so someone will say, and I love it if they've talked to some references and talk, learn about how I work and what I do and what I don't do. But then, yeah, it's always surprising to me that people don't realize that I get the reference back as well.
- [25:37]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah, yeah, exactly. It goes both ways.
- [25:41]
Vicky Charles
Yeah. Oh, and also the first into when you, especially when you talk to people now and you're first meeting a client and they keep their camera off on the zoom and you're like, you know, I've had that one happen. I'm like, how are we going to communicate together for the next three years if you don't put your camera on while we're having our first week?
- [25:56]
Leslie Heaney
Oh, interesting. And you're like, you know, maybe this won't be the right fit.
- [26:00]
Vicky Charles
Yeah, it's already night.
- [26:02]
Leslie Heaney
That is a red flag. That's a red flag. I can give you my list of red flags offline because I having been a reference, it's interesting what people ask and then you know they're going to be difficult about budget or like the vintage sink breaking or whatever. So we talked about how your website sort of, I think reflects you and how well, I guess the lack of a website, just your. No, your beautiful website, but that you just are, you know, you're very private and that, and, and you're, you have real discretion, which is very much appreciated by. Well, I think your clients.
- [26:38]
Vicky Charles
I work with a lot of high profile people on their private lives. So not their public lives, right? Not the famous them and not their workplaces or their studios or their offices or anything that's a brand that they're promoting and with their home and their family and that is private. And you're, and they, no matter how profile high profile you are, you're allowed a private life. And essentially everyone's the same. We're all, we all have the same human experience of needing the bathroom. And, you know, it's the same at home. And everybody, no matter how beautiful, successful, it's the same fight with your partner. It's the same. You just like, the one thing we all can't get enough of is time. So you're. That compromise of time. We're all trying to deal with that at home so nobody can have enough time with each of their children or pets or work. So, you know, it's a very leveling experience. When you're designing with people, it's the same. It doesn't matter, like, how you want to live, like, whether you share a bathroom or you don't, you share a bedroom or you don't, about how far your kids are or they're not. Like, everybody's going through that same experience in.
- [27:52]
Leslie Heaney
But because you're right, because it is kind of behind the curtain, it's so important that you do maintain that. So now I'm going to make you really uncomfortable. I'm not going to ask you anyone, but I did send you.
- [28:02]
Vicky Charles
This is a hole where I dish the dirt.
- [28:04]
Leslie Heaney
I know you will. You won't dish the dirt. But I, in looking into, like, you know, doing my own research, which I have to do, obviously, even though we're friends for the. For the podcast, magazines and the press has reported publicly that you've worked with Meghan Markle and Prince Harry, Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis, George Namal Clooney, the Beckhams, Gwyneth Paltrow. You know, the list goes on. Right. And you said to me before we started that not all of this list is correct. There's some of it's correct, not all of it's correct. I know that in two cases, at least, with the Clooneys and I think the Beckhams and Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis, they've spoken about you. You publicly.
- [28:49]
Vicky Charles
They are correct. They are clients. George and Amal were my first ever private home client.
- [28:54]
Leslie Heaney
Really.
- [28:54]
Vicky Charles
It's my first client. George and Amal, privately.
- [28:57]
Leslie Heaney
I mean, he's so. I mean, I know. Yeah, you won't. You won't. But I mean, he's just. They're both so lovely. And not that I, of course, know them as well as you do, but from being distant fans, but. But so on the particular projects that you've worked on with them and maybe with all of those people, is there anything first that you can share about any of their projects that were interesting, like an interesting place, or maybe you don't even mention which client it is. But has there been, like, a favorite location or an interesting project? I know in Ashton Kutcher, Mila Kunis case, you did, like, a farmhouse in la, where that was published in a magazine, was very cool because it's sort of, you know, you wouldn't necessarily think of that in la, but it looked, after it was done, it looked like it just had always been there.
- [29:48]
Vicky Charles
So that was with the late Howard Backend, who just died about a month ago.
- [29:51]
Leslie Heaney
Oh, wow.
- [29:52]
Vicky Charles
Who is a phenomenal architect. And so his work is legacy. So I got really lucky to work with him on Ashtlumila's house, and he really kind of led that design, the architecture and working. And that was five years working together on that house. That's how long some of these projects take. And so kind of really building trust, not just with the clients, but with Howard on his vision and understanding what he was creating. This incredible farmhouse.
- [30:24]
Leslie Heaney
What was his vision? Why. Why did he think of that as a.
- [30:27]
Vicky Charles
A contemporary farmhouse? So I think some of the pictures that was in AD he built it has this kind of cathedral feeling when you're in it. And so a lot of these spaces, when you work with a new build, a restoration, is very different because you can feel the soul of the building before you demo or restore it. But when you're working with a kind of a legendary architect, you're trying to extract as the designer what's in their head. And I'm looking at. So he's creating this incredible contemporary farmhouse, whereas the scale and the, you know, and the symmetry in that. So that. That particular room that was in ad, it's board form, concrete. So it's where you get concrete. You put the wood into it to impress the texture of wood. The symmetry of it lines up completely throughout the room with the real wood on the. On the floor. So you don't. There's things you don't really notice from the photograph, but this incredible piece of architecture that doesn't have decorative lighting in it, it's lit in a way that's kind of monumental when you're in the space. And then my job is to kind of humanize it, to make it their family living room and, you know, soften it to make you feel less, you know, you walk into that space and you're kind of like, it's so impressive.
- [31:43]
Leslie Heaney
The picture does really take your breath away.
- [31:45]
Vicky Charles
And so kind of trying to make it into a home for a young family, you know. So working really closely with Howard throughout that process, on how do we balance and make this a livable young family's home? And that took time. You know, I had to learn and, you know, take time with Howard and his trust on what materials and how far I can push the boundaries and change things.
- [32:08]
Leslie Heaney
Did you select him or did they select him?
- [32:10]
Vicky Charles
They select. He was on the project before me.
- [32:12]
Leslie Heaney
Okay.
- [32:12]
Vicky Charles
And then they found. Then actually, I was still at so house when they found me, and then I was just transitioning out, and so they stayed with me as private clients.
- [32:22]
Leslie Heaney
So with that was materials, like having the wood in the. In the. Was it in concrete? You were seeing ball.
- [32:27]
Vicky Charles
Poor concrete.
- [32:28]
Leslie Heaney
Was that.
- [32:29]
Vicky Charles
That's Howard.
- [32:30]
Leslie Heaney
That's Howard. Sort of. And he was thinking that would just kind of.
- [32:32]
Vicky Charles
Yeah. And so my influence with things like that is, like, how do all those things work together? Like, how does that floor color look inside, outside? How do we bring in the furniture colors on that? Like, are we doing real leather? And how does that wood tone the table wood tone work with the other colors in the room? It's like. It's a very. Like working with an architect, we look at things for a different lens, obviously. Like, I'm looking at the minuscule details. Like, how big are the bedside tables? Do they fit in the room? As he's thinking about the size of the window in relation to the other windows, you know, it's. It's kind of the best jobs are where you both. The full team starts at the beginning. So you start with the architect and the interior designer from day one. Not too low. Actually, we don't work on jobs where we come in too late because it is too late to change things.
- [33:18]
Leslie Heaney
Are you finding yourself doing more often than not, new builds than historic fairies?
- [33:23]
Vicky Charles
I will do a new build if it's with a really fabulous architect, because then they become muse in a way.
- [33:30]
Leslie Heaney
Right.
- [33:30]
Vicky Charles
You know, like that's. They become the inspiration of what you're trying to create as opposed to the existing building itself. So a lot of. When you start to work with a client, you want to know about the rest of the team. Because I'm a member of the team on the. You know, with. Right.
- [33:43]
Leslie Heaney
Because that could also be problematic if you have an architect that you don't work well with.
- [33:47]
Vicky Charles
Always there's always an asshole. You just never know who it's going to be. Yeah. Sometimes it's yourself.
- [33:52]
Leslie Heaney
Could be the plumber, could be Irish, the gardener.
- [33:56]
Vicky Charles
It could be the client. Then it's the accountant.
- [33:58]
Leslie Heaney
That's actually a great title for, you know, some sort of memoir that you or you could do in your career.
- [34:04]
Vicky Charles
At the end of it would end my career if I named all the assholes, I am sure.
- [34:09]
Leslie Heaney
But again, back to the discretion. It is like this is one of your many superpowers and you really don't do it with friends. Because there are other people that I am friendly with who work with people in this space. You can see this is the attorney in me that I'm being confidential and not outing them. But they do share details of certain things with friends.
- [34:31]
Vicky Charles
It's funny, we just talked about my daughter Ava. So she went to meet David Beckham with me. He's worked with him for a really long time in water thing. And he's just. The whole family is wonderful and very family orientated. And my son is obsessed with football, soccer. So she's. He's bouncing around in the car, so excited to meet him. And Ava gets out of the car. This is a long while ago. She was about 6 or 7. She went to David. I went, I don't get it. You're just a dad. And that was like essentially how she's right. You know, they are. He's just a dad at home with his kids and I'm designing his house. So there, I guess there's nothing to talk about.
- [35:08]
Leslie Heaney
But that's kind of great to just have Ava be the. I mean, she's.
- [35:13]
Vicky Charles
Yeah, but that's kind of like that's how it is. You know, it's just there isn't that Right?
- [35:19]
Leslie Heaney
And actually when they are, you know, when. When the way that you're working with them, they are just a dad, meaning you're not working with them in their professional capacity.
- [35:28]
Vicky Charles
You're working not with him.
- [35:29]
Leslie Heaney
Trying to create a home for them. It was Amal Clooney, I think, who was. Who had said that you. She described you as like a calm in a storm and that you understand how people live. Would you say that there is a common thread in.
- [35:44]
Vicky Charles
Yeah, I mean, it would take a lot to get me upset as well. Like I don't. Like I'm not saving lives. I'm not. Open heart surgery, you know, we're talking paint. Yes. It's expensive. Big decisions, but it is.
- [35:57]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah.
- [35:57]
Vicky Charles
It takes a lot for me to really.
- [36:00]
Leslie Heaney
To get kind of rubbed up.
- [36:01]
Vicky Charles
And I've kind of seen it all like. And I understand that usually when people are upset about something in their home, in their environment, it's not really about me.
- [36:08]
Leslie Heaney
Right.
- [36:09]
Vicky Charles
It's about something else always that's going on. And home is very sensitive Especially when you're doing it with a partner. Like, people bring their own childhood experiences to home. Especially when you're trying to create something together and what your ideal home vision is, especially new couples. That's also a. We were going to find out how long they've been together before we do that.
- [36:29]
Leslie Heaney
That's part of the interview question.
- [36:31]
Vicky Charles
We were talking to a client yesterday, and she was saying, my husband just wants an outdoor kitchen. He wants a pizza oven, a desk, and I think that was it. And a gym. And she's like, you just give him those three things and he doesn't care about anything else. I'm like, well, we can work together. Because it wasn't about the list. It was just like they knew each other. She knew his important, his top three.
- [36:53]
Leslie Heaney
But I think sometimes people don't understand just how much being an interior designer has kind of, you know, the component of therapist because you are trying to get to understand them. And it might be navigating, you know, decision making with a spouse or your children leaving or.
- [37:12]
Vicky Charles
Yeah, there's a lot. Anything to do with home is.
- [37:15]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah, there's a lot there. Okay. Is there any project that you desperately want to take on? Could be like a house in a certain area. Like, maybe you want to do something totally off the grid that's sustainable. No, just, you know, I was talking to Peter Panoyer, who's an architect that, you know, and he, you know, he was doing some project where it was. He had to bring in everything that was totally off the grid. You don't have an off the grid.
- [37:45]
Vicky Charles
I had, like, the logistics part of that's way too much of a headache.
- [37:48]
Leslie Heaney
A rocket, like an Elon Musk rocket ship. Any, like, yacht. Anything you haven't done.
- [37:54]
Vicky Charles
I mean, I just want to fix what's already just badly designed. I mean, like, yeah, interesting. Waiting rooms. Like, somewhere with. It shocks me that how much your environment affects your mental health. So to go into hospital waiting rooms or doctors and there's bright lighting and the colors are really jarring, or they're soft instead of harsh white. Let's go for like a pinkish white. Just something with a nicer glow, you know? So I'd much rather work in that area. Yeah, just dim everything. Just be kinder with everything.
- [38:27]
Leslie Heaney
Can you talk to, like, Bergdorf Goodman about dressing rooms? I feel like there's, like, I don't understand, like, and they're actually trying to sell clothes. I'm like, this is demoralizing on so many different levels. And you're right. It's the lighting.
- [38:39]
Vicky Charles
It's that waiting rooms, hospitals, anywhere where you have to feel vulnerable. And there's just. It's not even decisions that require a lot of money. It's a paint color or a dimmer, you know, or the bulb. I just. That's the area that can be fixed. And, you know, actually, Joe knows this, my husband. Like, there's certain restaurants I can't eat in that he loves just because, like, the lighting is too bright. The interiors. Oh, they're trying too hard. It's distracting from the food. It's better. It was just. Don't put this crazy tile everywhere. Like, it's about the food. Like, it's just.
- [39:11]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah.
- [39:12]
Vicky Charles
Maybe people get it so wrong when they try too hard or they don't try. They don't think about it.
- [39:18]
Leslie Heaney
So let me ask you that. Then you just mentioned, like, those are things that don't cost a lot. What. What else. Are there other things like that like, that you think could just be, like, simple design fixes that people maybe we can hit on.
- [39:28]
Vicky Charles
There's so many. That's what goes on in my head all the time. Like, talking of superpowers, I think I have this. I can go into a room and work out what's wrong with it immediately. Like, that's my superpower. It's because I'm like, that could just be such an easier fit. Like, every hotel I stay in, I'm like, yeah. Why would you do that? Like, that doesn't make sense.
- [39:47]
Leslie Heaney
Before we started, the last time I had shot in this studio, there was a side angle. I mean, I almost sent it to my friend who I interviewed was the plastic surgeon. To be like, this is my. This is my. You know, my intake form here. Where do I. I can't even believe it. And so we're talking the guys about moving the cameras, and you were like, well, if we move the chair, I'm like, oh, here we go.
- [40:08]
Vicky Charles
This is.
- [40:08]
Leslie Heaney
This is genius of work.
- [40:10]
Vicky Charles
Like, why would you.
- [40:11]
Leslie Heaney
Oh, just.
- [40:12]
Vicky Charles
I. Yeah. When. When you. But even when I look at even the new buildings and these new towers and condos and everything's gray and white and harsh, I'm like, why aren't bathrooms softer and kinder? The. The spaces you're more vulnerable in or more naked. Just make it kinder to yourself in any colors or reflections.
- [40:32]
Leslie Heaney
So what do we want? Naked spaces. We want pink.
- [40:34]
Vicky Charles
Like, think about when you. To the best light, when you take your photographs, the sunsets. Right. So anything that has a warm, soft glow is where you should Be trying to emulate in your home especially. And so soft pinks. Pink, white off. Like think about sunset light all the time.
- [40:51]
Leslie Heaney
What do you have go to paint colors that you. No, you don't. Well, you don't. Because we talked about. You really want to make it. Each project is different. Yeah, we did talk before taping that. Some designers, you can kind of really tell that it's their design and sometimes they even replicate, you know, the use of certain things and you try to.
- [41:10]
Vicky Charles
Stay away from them, especially every time.
- [41:12]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah. Just make it that much easier.
- [41:15]
Vicky Charles
Yeah, exactly. I'm sure it makes more money if I just. I know it's. But it's also, you know, my teenager. I mean, that's just. Aren't you all bored of using that same tile? Let's just. What else we got? We just. Our studio in the city is actually a big sample library and it's just full of materials and most of my team work remotely. But we go in the studio to pick. You know, we're a physical industry, so we have to physically look at things right. Touch and feel. And that's how we get. But I'm not. We're constantly like, we just did a big cleanup in August and got rid of a load of old samples. I'm like, I can't look at this tile anymore. Like, what else? There's so much talented craftsmen out there. Like, show me more stuff than that.
- [41:54]
Leslie Heaney
Well, that's really interesting. So you, because you have this group, this you've got, you have the staff. Do you say to them sometimes like, you need to go find like who's. Who's. Maybe. Maybe you're going to Morocco. Maybe you're going to find. To show the fabric or the rugs or the tile or the.
- [42:08]
Vicky Charles
And also the craftsman. You know, a lot of the guys that I work with now are like the great metal workers or woodworkers. I'm like, they're all now in their 50s and 60s as well. Like me. Like, let's. Let's, like, who are your people? Like my 20 year old designers. Like find your people. Find the leather people that you love to work with. Like what's new. Find the new fabric designers. Wallpaper. You know, I know all my guys from when I grew up with them.
- [42:37]
Leslie Heaney
But like they were all. Let's start co defining like the next generation of this talent.
- [42:42]
Vicky Charles
I mean, I'm a curator. I don't actually make anything. So I'm constantly looking for makers and I curate different people together to make a rune.
- [42:53]
Leslie Heaney
You could also probably Find someone who does kind of wrought iron work or does something and then say, hey, could you make this for me? And they probably sometimes didn't even think of.
- [43:04]
Vicky Charles
We're just saying that we were talking to somebody yesterday about the keyring.
- [43:08]
Leslie Heaney
Right.
- [43:08]
Vicky Charles
I like to gift my clients on a something that has the date of when they move into their house. Because it's just such a date you'd always forget.
- [43:18]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah.
- [43:18]
Vicky Charles
What's your first night you sleep in your new house. So we tried to record and make a memory of that date. And yesterday I was talking to a British craftsman. He works in leather and he does incredible stitching and make me a keyring or something with the date I embossed on it. So it's a really fun thing that he's going to create something wonderful. I'm not going to tell him how to do it because it's craft. But I mean, that's a really special date that everyone forgets the first night they spend.
- [43:44]
Leslie Heaney
That is such a great idea. But I love how you're having him. You're sort of having him do something different that he hasn't done before. Okay. So no space stations, no yachts.
- [43:55]
Vicky Charles
Absolutely no. There's nothing rich. I would rather fix what we already have and stay here for longer.
- [44:00]
Leslie Heaney
All right, so we discussed pinks when we're naked. What other like rapid fire. I want to know sort of what your favorite. Either go to quick design fix, which we kind of touched on already, but. Or places that you like to. Are there great finds in London that somebody might not know about? Or New York or la?
- [44:19]
Vicky Charles
Could it be a market or a Our own hometown? Millerton, Upstate New York. I know Dutch montage antiques. Dana's like just local. I always shop local.
- [44:29]
Leslie Heaney
Millerton has great antique stores.
- [44:31]
Vicky Charles
Millerton has great antique stores. I also every town. And that was the wonderful thing about working in Sohouse. I worked in so many different cities that you got the Rolodex of that city because we were always searching. And I really think the great Design you do 70% of everything you buy. Like, you know, if I'm taking a room, I bought probably 70%. I've bought the bed. I bought the bedsides. I might wait to find the side table or the lamps to the rooms more installed. And then that gives me a layer of freedom to feel it. And also search locally for something vintage or a side table. So I'm constantly wherever that house or that hotel or where we're finishing, we will look locally for the last few pieces because I just. You Never know until it's in the room. I want the right to change my mind up until the last minute. And so I'm always shopping locally if I can.
- [45:21]
Leslie Heaney
That is so. And then you can probably then like, you know, you develop a relationship with that. You found that person. Exactly.
- [45:28]
Vicky Charles
And then they go. So I have a really great Rolodex from just my days at working at. So from Barcelona to Berlin to Miami.
- [45:36]
Leslie Heaney
Chicago, L.A. were there any spots? I mean, maybe you want to keep them secret.
- [45:40]
Vicky Charles
I said, I don't want to tell everybody.
- [45:43]
Leslie Heaney
I know.
- [45:43]
Vicky Charles
I'm out.
- [45:44]
Leslie Heaney
Miller Tunis are good. I'm like thinking about the other.
- [45:49]
Vicky Charles
I mean, in Italy. I'm always shopping in Italy, where you do the Palmer Antiques Fair. I probably buy a small amount, but I love it for the inspiration.
- [45:58]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah. Oh, that's interesting.
- [45:59]
Vicky Charles
I think there's incredible world that's just started in the tabletop world and a.
- [46:04]
Leslie Heaney
Decorative accessories that's a whole.
- [46:06]
Vicky Charles
There's a company called a Basque that we've just started working with that does incredible gifts. They're based in London, but they ship everywhere. And they've just done a great job of curating great craftsmen all over the world. And that tabletop something can go in a UPS box. And so, like, that's a whole nother level of things that are worth.
- [46:25]
Leslie Heaney
So you probably have your team then doing a lot. They're researching these places and they're looking.
- [46:29]
Vicky Charles
For shopping and buying. I mean, we don't do. We've. I'm not very good at doing anything part time. So we. When we finish your house, the picture frames, the glasses are done. The full. It's fully turnkey. You just turn up with your. You don't even need to bring a toothbrush. We probably do that.
- [46:47]
Leslie Heaney
Well, you also give them a keychain, as you said. I mean, everything.
- [46:50]
Vicky Charles
You know, whatever you need, we can get your pets.
- [46:52]
Leslie Heaney
I mean, we have everything. Exactly. We've got the new dog that's not going to shed. You can choose the fabric. Yeah, exactly.
- [47:01]
Vicky Charles
Or if he does shed his color cords. Nature.
- [47:03]
Leslie Heaney
Exactly. But you. You do do that too. You are very conscious of, you know, pets, kids, sticky fingers, the whole thing.
- [47:10]
Vicky Charles
It shouldn't be precious. Right, right. It should feel lived in and comfortable and warm. You know, when you get to somebody, you've been in those houses and you're like, yeah. Or freaking out that your kids just put something on the table that they shouldn't do. Like, that's not how people. You want to be people. Yeah.
- [47:27]
Leslie Heaney
That's not comfortable Right. That's not. And that kind of interesting. Sort of goes back to what you were saying about the Sohouse. The woman who started the design just having. How do you want to live? How do people want to live? And that's.
- [47:37]
Vicky Charles
You feel in a space.
- [47:38]
Leslie Heaney
How do you want to feel?
- [47:39]
Vicky Charles
And your house is the house of the reject furniture.
- [47:44]
Leslie Heaney
It is the most amazing house. Are you kidding? And it's so comfortable because the legs.
- [47:51]
Vicky Charles
Are too short on it. So I'm like, I can't throw that away.
- [47:55]
Leslie Heaney
The lamp was just a little bit.
- [47:57]
Vicky Charles
The rug that was made too short for a client. I'm like, fine, I'll buy it.
- [48:01]
Leslie Heaney
But you've got. In your house, you've got two amazing kids. We mentioned Ava, but also Will and your amazing husband Joe, and your dogs, and you run this whole career, and you do live full time in upstate New York or the Hudson Valley, and you travel everywhere. How do you manage. How do you manage it all?
- [48:21]
Vicky Charles
Well, when they were little, the kids, they would take them with me a lot. I think when they were really small, they would say, oh, you're going out. I think Ava made a comment, of course.
- [48:30]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah.
- [48:30]
Vicky Charles
That was on vacation again. And I was like, that's it.
- [48:32]
Leslie Heaney
You're going.
- [48:33]
Vicky Charles
Coming with me.
- [48:34]
Leslie Heaney
So you can see just. What vacation?
- [48:36]
Vicky Charles
Yeah, I want you to show. And she did the Palmer Antiques Fair.
- [48:38]
Leslie Heaney
With me for three days.
- [48:39]
Vicky Charles
We went to some hotels in the Alps. I was designing. She did a road trip for eight hours. And she's like, I am never going on a road trip again.
- [48:46]
Leslie Heaney
Never going on your vacation ever again.
- [48:48]
Vicky Charles
Sympathy. When I travel. But, you know, I think. I think it's really important. And I learned this lesson from my mom. I think my work ethic comes from my mother, is that you just. You model behavior, especially for your daughters. Like, she wanted her own money away from my dad, and so she worked really hard to study and get her own job. And I just feel like that's the same thing with my children. I'm like, I'm just modeling, and you're involved. And it is a family business. I only get to do. Get to travel because Jo is present with our kids. It can't be just one person doing it. It's very supportive and collaborative, and everyone's involved and. And part of the family business. The kids know who all my clients are. They know where I'm working. They may. We're going on Thursday to London. I'll be at a job site with them on Saturday, and then we'll fly to Italy and I've got a site meeting and they'll be around. So it's, you know, you just model. They know that I love what I do.
- [49:50]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah.
- [49:50]
Vicky Charles
So I think that's really important to show. Find. Find something that you want to work harder all the time because you're going to do it a lot. So love it.
- [50:00]
Leslie Heaney
And you do make it. You sort of do as you said. You make them part of it to the extent that they can be.
- [50:05]
Vicky Charles
Totally.
- [50:06]
Leslie Heaney
So they see what you're doing and that you're also getting that.
- [50:09]
Vicky Charles
Yeah. And hopefully they can. I mean, they've both worked in the office sorting fabrics out.
- [50:13]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah.
- [50:13]
Vicky Charles
Some. One of them was better than the other, so you can imagine. Yeah. And they both know what, you know it's part of. Neither of them will get in the industry because I put them off traveling antiques and design forever from having to do it all the time. But, yeah, I think that's. You just model that behavior.
- [50:34]
Leslie Heaney
What is next for Vicky Charles?
- [50:37]
Vicky Charles
What is next? You know, we do photograph all our work, even though I don't show it to anyone. I think I'd like to do working on a book slowly behind the scenes in my spare time between 2:00am and 3:00am Yeah, I was putting that together.
- [50:52]
Leslie Heaney
You should do. I mean, you should do that because I've just seen. I've been to some lectures that you've given and seen some of the little glimpses. Yeah. The glimpses besides of what we've seen in magazines.
- [51:02]
Vicky Charles
And I think, you know, it's just thinking about what you want to say with that book. Does the world need another book or does the world need another scented candle from an interior designer? It's like, what do you want to say with that? And it's, you know, it's fascinating how you work with people and you work with color and how we all see things differently. And so, you know, just spending a lot of time thinking about. Actually, that's the biggest thing of Fort Next is I think as you get older, you appreciate the time you need to think.
- [51:27]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah.
- [51:28]
Vicky Charles
And not just do. And so that's kind of.
- [51:30]
Leslie Heaney
Well, I was going to say in response to your question about that, like, does someone need another book from a designer? You know, I think the answer is yes, particularly from you as that designer, because it is very contemplative. I mean, you look through those books and it gets you sort of thinking about your own spaces and what you could dream to do. And I think maybe, you know, share.
- [51:57]
Vicky Charles
To make your life a little bit better. Because I don't think it's about how much money. I think it's just making decisions that are just a bit kinder on how you live. And so that just makes everything a bit easier and happier.
- [52:09]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah, it's. It's an inspiration. It's inspiring.
- [52:12]
Vicky Charles
Yeah. So.
- [52:13]
Leslie Heaney
So when are we doing this? And then are you going to have a secret book that there's. What is. We decide?
- [52:17]
Vicky Charles
Yeah, yeah. I'll talk about every single client's crazy.
- [52:22]
Leslie Heaney
Because we've all got crazy. Exactly.
- [52:25]
Vicky Charles
And then I'll share that and then my career will be over.
- [52:27]
Leslie Heaney
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, that's like. Yeah, maybe that's when you're 90. You can write that book.
- [52:31]
Vicky Charles
I'll let Ava write it.
- [52:32]
Leslie Heaney
But in the meantime, you do need to do the. The interior book because.
- [52:35]
Vicky Charles
Yeah, I think it's, you know, slowly, slowly you just collect this body of work and you're like, oh, that's fun. And it's also good to reflective, to look back on things.
- [52:43]
Leslie Heaney
Oh, 100%. Maybe get inspired by things you've already done and to see.
- [52:47]
Vicky Charles
Just keep learning. Right.
- [52:49]
Leslie Heaney
And then, you know, you can just not. The kids obviously already know that.
- [52:52]
Vicky Charles
That you've.
- [52:53]
Leslie Heaney
I was not on vacation when I was at the.
- [52:55]
Vicky Charles
I'm never on a vacation. I now know that.
- [52:59]
Leslie Heaney
Vicky, thank you so much. I'm so happy to see you because I've been in Nashville, as you know, but I really appreciate you taking the time.
- [53:08]
Vicky Charles
Thank you.
- [53:09]
Leslie Heaney
Thank you. That brings us to the end of this episode of the interview. A huge thank you again to Vicky Charles for joining us. And as always, thank you again for listening. If you enjoyed the show, please rate and review us on Apple Podcast and Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts and follow us on Instagram at the interview with Leslie Heaney. A new podcast is released every Wednesday. Until then, this is Leslie, and don't forget to join the interview.