Insurance: All You Need to Know - feat. Chip Merlin

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Insurance: All You Need to Know" featuring Chip Merlin

Release Date: March 12, 2025

Hosted by Leslie Heaney

---

1. Introduction and Context

In the latest episode of The Interview with Leslie Heaney, host Leslie delves into the escalating insurance crisis in the United States, particularly highlighting the aftermath of devastating natural disasters. Recent events, such as the catastrophic fires in California and Hurricane Milton in Florida, have underscored the precarious state of homeowners' insurance. Leslie sets the stage by discussing how insurance companies have been dropping policies or significantly increasing premiums just weeks before calamities strike.

Leslie (00:05): "Insurance companies seem to also be getting away with underpaying or slow paying the insured, leaving people helpless and hopeless."

2. Guest Introduction: Chip Merlin

Leslie introduces her guest, Chip Merlin, a renowned attorney and founder of the Merlin Law Group. With accolades like the lifetime achievement award from the Florida Association of Public Adjusters and roles on the Board of Directors of United Policyholders, Chip is aptly nicknamed the "Babe Ruth of hurricane lawyers" and the "Master of Disaster."

Leslie (00:05): "Chip has dedicated his practice to the representation and advocacy of the insured in disputes with their insurance companies nationwide."

3. Current State of the US Insurance Market

Chip provides an in-depth analysis of the nationwide surge in insurance premiums and the dwindling availability of coverage in high-risk areas. He explains that insurance companies are increasingly exiting markets to mitigate their risks, leading to significant rate hikes and limited options for consumers.

Chip Merlin (02:45): "All over the United States, most people are starting to see that their insurance rates have been going up. And in some areas... you're starting to see the unavailability of insurance."

He cites Florida as a prime example, where average property insurance premiums have surged by over 40%, equating to more than $6,000 per policy.

Chip Merlin (04:21): "In Florida two years ago, some of the increases on average were more than $6,000 per policy for your property insurance, over 40% increases."

4. Impacts of Rising Insurance Premiums

The conversation shifts to the tangible effects on homeowners. Rising premiums are forcing individuals to relocate, sometimes prioritizing insurance costs over mortgage payments. Additionally, the timing of policy cancellations prior to disasters leaves many residents unprotected when they need coverage the most.

Chip Merlin (06:00): "If insurance rates go up, that just makes it much more difficult with respect to homeownership."

Leslie shares anecdotes about policyholders in California and Florida who opted out of insurance due to exorbitant costs, resulting in significant financial losses when disasters struck.

Leslie (08:59): "...some people thought, forget it. I'm just going to not have insurance. And unfortunately... their homes have completely destroyed. They have no insurance whatsoever."

5. Policy and Regulatory Issues

A critical part of the discussion revolves around the regulatory framework governing insurance companies. California's elected insurance commissioner is highlighted as a unique approach to overseeing the industry, contrasting with other states that appoint commissioners often influenced by the insurance lobby.

Chip Merlin (13:29): "California has this hate love affair... people start reading about insurance companies threatening to pull out of the state."

Chip critiques the revolving door between the insurance industry and regulatory bodies, emphasizing the need for greater transparency and stricter oversight to protect policyholders.

Chip Merlin (15:39): "They enable the insurance industry to sort of regulate themselves... people like me, I represent policyholders, start saying, is this the fox guarding the hen house?"

6. Advice for Consumers on Insurance

Leslie and Chip emphasize the importance of consumers proactively managing their insurance needs. Key recommendations include:

• Finding a Great Insurance Agent: Prioritizing independent agents over captive ones to ensure broader coverage options.

  Chip Merlin (20:14): "Typically one of the first lessons I talk about is find yourself a great insurance broker or an agent."

• Understanding Policy Details: Consumers should thoroughly review their policies, preferably with the help of knowledgeable agents, to avoid unexpected coverage gaps.

  Chip Merlin (37:24): "The first thing, start with a great insurance agent that knows the product, knows you, knows where you're at."

• Documenting Assets: Maintaining a detailed inventory of household items through photos or videos can streamline claims processes post-disaster.

  Chip Merlin (58:36): "Take a brief period of time with that cell phone, make sure it gets up in the cloud... Just take an inventory of all your stuff."

7. Case Studies and Examples

Chip shares poignant examples to illustrate the dire consequences of inadequate insurance:

• The Case of the Doctor in New Jersey: A successful cardiac surgeon purchased a $6 million home but only secured $250,000 in flood insurance, leading to total financial ruin when a flood struck.

  Chip Merlin (38:56): "The agent clearly gave him the wrong advice... we had to sue his insurance agent for errors and omissions coverage."

• Non-Renewals Before Disasters: Instances where insurance companies canceled policies shortly before a disaster left homeowners without coverage.

  Chip Merlin (42:20): "Insurers are trying to get a greater glide path of opportunity for people to go out and shop their insurance... it's very difficult in some jurisdictions."

8. Surplus Lines Market Concerns

The discussion touches upon the growing surplus lines market, which operates largely unregulated and poses additional risks to consumers. Chip warns against relying on non-admitted carriers, which may offer subpar coverage and engage in dubious practices.

Chip Merlin (49:11): "Surplus lines markets are insurance companies that are not admitted in a particular state... these non-admitted carriers come in with all kinds of different products that are simply not as good."

9. Recommendations and Takeaways

As the episode concludes, Chip reiterates several crucial points for listeners to safeguard their insurance interests:

• Engage with Trusted Organizations: Utilize resources like UnitedPolicyholders.com for guidance on insurance disputes.

• Demand Transparency: Advocate for greater transparency in insurance practices to ensure honesty and fairness.

  Chip Merlin (55:34): "Transparency is honesty."

• Stay Informed and Proactive: Regularly review and update insurance policies in line with changing personal circumstances and asset valuations.

Chip Merlin (56:05): "The more financially fortunate you are, the more important insurance is to you because you have more to lose."

Leslie wraps up by encouraging listeners to consult with their insurance agents and apply the insights gained from Chip to enhance their insurance strategies.

Leslie (60:25): "It's one of many great conversations to have with your agent about how you're really living and what kind of protections [you need]."

10. Conclusion

This episode of The Interview with Leslie Heaney offers a comprehensive exploration of the current challenges within the US insurance landscape. Chip Merlin's expert insights shed light on systemic issues, regulatory shortcomings, and practical steps consumers can take to protect their assets and ensure adequate coverage. As natural disasters become more frequent and severe, understanding and navigating the complexities of insurance becomes increasingly vital for homeowners across the nation.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Chip Merlin (02:45): "All over the United States, most people are starting to see that their insurance rates have been going up."
• Chip Merlin (37:24): "Start with a great insurance agent that knows the product, knows you, knows where you're at."
• Chip Merlin (55:34): "Transparency is honesty."
• Leslie (00:05): "Insurance companies seem to also be getting away with underpaying or slow paying the insured, leaving people helpless and hopeless."

---

This detailed summary encapsulates the pivotal discussions and advice shared by Leslie Heaney and Chip Merlin, providing listeners with valuable knowledge on navigating the turbulent waters of homeowners' insurance amidst escalating natural disasters and industry challenges.

Transcript

[Leslie]

So following the devastating fires in California, all of us kept hearing stories on the news of residents having been dropped by their insurance companies just a few weeks before the deadly fire. The same thing happened this past fall, if you recall, in Florida, where Floridians couldn't afford their increased premiums or were being dropped by their insurance companies. So when Hurricane Milton hit, they had no coverage. In fact, in Florida, insurance rates have gotten so high that people are beginning to leave the state with their insurance premiums, in some cases surpassing their mortgage payments. Insurance companies seem to also be getting away with underpaying or slow paying the insured, leaving people helpless and hopeless. But thankfully, there are people out there like my next guest, Chip Merlin. Founder of the Merlin Law Group. Chip has dedicated his practice to the representation and advocacy of the insured in disputes with their insurance companies nationwide. He's been called the Babe Ruth of hurricane lawyers and the Master of Disaster. For his nationwide catastrophe work in helping policyholders following Hurricane Katrina, Chip was provided a lifetime achievement award by the Florida association of Public Adjusters for his advocacy work on behalf of policyholders. He's also on the Board of Directors of United Policyholders and has been a guest commentator on CNN and Fox News. Chip is also past chair of the Insurance Bad Faith Litigation Group of the American association of Justice. In this episode, Chip and I talk about the state of the insurance crisis in the US From California to Florida to Texas to New Jersey to New York, what we as the insured can do to protect ourselves from malfeasance from insurance companies and what our state governments should do to protect the insured over the insurers to protect your property and your family. This is an episode you will not want to. Chip, it is so great to see you. Thank you so much for being on the pod. I'm so happy to have you here. And as I said before we started, I just think this topic is on so many people's minds with what happened in California two weeks ago and what happened this fall in Florida of people being in situations where there have been just horrific natural disasters and then being uninsured or underinsured or have just had their coverage denied within months prior to those disasters taking place. I was thinking it might be helpful for listeners, for you to kind of give us a little bit of a background about what is happening in the homeowners insurance market and what are the after effects of some of these issues for residents.

[Chip Merlin]

Yeah, well, I mean, all over the United States, most people are starting to see that their insurance rates have been going up. And in some areas, whether you're in especially the high risk areas, you're starting to see the unavailability of insurance. Some of the insurance companies start to leave the market and the rates are going up higher. So, you know, if you're in areas on coastal areas, almost anywhere in the United States, you're starting to see significant rate increases and an appetite by the insurance companies where they really are looking to possibly leave the market. They want to reduce their risk. And so, you know what, what we're seeing is not just in certain regional areas like California and Florida, you know, where we suffered these, but even up in Long island, you know, over the past few years, you know, they're starting to get more difficult to find insurance. Insurance companies are starting to leave. The rates are certainly going up no matter where you are. And so all these rapid developments with respect to these disasters that you hear all over the United States really do impact everybody and impact the insurance market certainly a lot more where you just had a large loss. But I think everybody's starting to feel it, you know. And in Florida two years ago, some of the increases on average were more than $6,000 per policy for your property insurance, over 40% increases. And of course, people are going, why? How can this happen? And while the Floridians live in a state that just sticks out in the middle of both the Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico. So there's.

[Leslie]

Or. Gulf of America.

[Chip Merlin]

Gulf of America, yeah. Things change. You know, the people in Texas are still having issues. The people that live Mobile, Alabama are having issues. The people on the Carolinas have issues with respect to the rising rates that they have, even though they aren't in the center of where the particular disasters are having are happening. So this is a very timely topic, and I think a lot of Americans are waking up and understanding that the insurance really is a social product, and we're all in this together.

[Leslie]

Yeah, that's really interesting. I didn't think about, you know, the ripple effect of these disasters on other states that might not have them, that insurers are thinking, maybe I don't want to be in that market, which is really devastating. And you brought up Long Island. I have a friend who was telling me that they're having a very difficult time getting insurance in Southampton, and they're not even on the water, but just being kind of on Long island, which is very narrow. And obviously if there's a big weather event, it will affect that whole area. But in Florida, you mentioned that rates have gone up for some people $6,000. Their policies have gone up in a year. You know, I had heard and read that there are people who are thinking about leaving the state because their insurance premiums are almost the same or if not more than their mortgage payments. I mean, a lot of people moved down there right, in the past 10 years and bought homes that were less expensive than they were, let's say in the Northeast. But then with the shift of insurance rates, it's really had a devastating economic impact.

[Chip Merlin]

Well, it has. I mean, everybody loves to come to Florida, especially in the wintertime. You're up in the Northeast because it's almost 80 degrees outside right now and beautiful sunshiny day. But eventually home ownership and affordability becomes important for everybody. And if you have a mortgage, you're required to have insurance. You have insurance, so you don't have a choice on that. And if insurance rates go up, that just makes it much more difficult with respect to homeownership. And there's been a couple of reasons for that. It's not just that the insurance companies risk, you know, is higher in the state. We're having more of these, you know, just debilitating disasters on a more regular basis. All the time. The construction prices have gone up through the, no, no pun intended, through the roof. I mean, construction inflation has outpaced normal inflation significantly. And so, you know, if you have a. I'm just going to make it up. A $250,000 home that you might have purchased 15 years ago, and now it cost $600,000 if you were to have. Because you have to, you have to buy enough insurance in order to replace it, 250 to 600,000, you're paying a greater premium just for that. Even at the rate that the insurance company pays per dollar doesn't go up at all. So, you know, having that inflation compounded by the fact that you also now have higher rates because we're having more significant disasters, more frequent disasters, has led to an issue that. You're absolutely right. There are people that are just packing it up and going somewhere else now. I also think if you're impacted, you know, it's two things. You're paying higher premiums and now all of a sudden you have a loss. Do you really want to go through that? Once you go through a hurricane and now you've got to go through a rebuilding process that might take six months, but because all your friends and neighbors just got wiped out, you can't find a contractor, it's going to take you two years. Where are you going to live for the next two years. And after a while, people put their hands up and go, maybe I need to get. And go move some more else. So I had some friends that moved to North Carolina and one of the hurricanes, obviously, you know the lingo stuff there, they got wiped out up in North Carolina. So you're not necessarily, you know, know, getting away from everything. There's no free lunch anywhere on this, I often say. And, and, but you're, you're right. There's been a number of people that have been talking about it. And the more scary thing is this, you know, if you can't afford the insurance, can you really afford the home? And so for some seniors that move down here, they paid off their mortgage. Now they say, well, I don't have to have insurance and it's so expensive. I'll take the chance. And all right, you get wiped out. Now what do you do? And that happened to a number of people, unfortunately. So they're being forced to move somewhere else because they just don't have the money to be able to repair the structure because they didn't have the insurance.

[Leslie]

I didn't even think of that. And I had heard that's what happened in Florida, excuse me, in California, a few months right before the fires. I don't know what time of year or why it seemed to be happening all at the same time, but there were many homeowners there in that area of Pacific Palisades where they couldn't get, or I guess they could get insurance, but the premiums were so high, and they thought, forget it. I'm just going to not have insurance. And I guess these are cases when they didn't have mortgages. Right. And then these people's entire life savings, which was in their home, I would think primarily was wiped out.

[Chip Merlin]

Well, California has this hate love affair going back and forth that people read about all over the place because they have an elected insurance commissioner who is really fighting the insurance industry with respect to what the rates are and how those are determined. And this has been going on in California for 30 years. So that's, that's, that's nothing new, but people start reading about insurance companies threatening to pull out of the state. And that's been going on for quite a number of years. But all of a sudden the rates are higher, and some of the insurance companies who pull out, there's not one to replace them. And so there were a number of insurance companies, State Farm being the most notable, that canceled 2500 policies, I believe, within a few months Just before you know, these, these fires that happen. And that raises a big concern. While the, the California has a fair plan that is going to take care of the vast majority of people, some people said the heck with that. I almost have no insurance coverage with the fair plan because all you get essentially is fire. It doesn't cover you for theft, it doesn't cover you for any number of water losses and things like that. It's primarily just a fire insurance policy with very limited coverage. And you know, for some of those homes out there that might cost, it's unbelievable, beautiful homes in some of these areas. And but a lot of people said just forget it, I'm just going to go bear, I'm going to take the risk. And unfortunately, you know, there is a massive devastation of wealth that happened because some people took that risk and their homes have completely destroyed. They have no insurance whatsoever. And which I don't think is good for a number of societal reasons. I mean insurance is there to help people rebuild if you can and if you can afford it. And while there is a fair plan that's out there, you know it's not going to pay for everything that's going to come back afterwards. So we have some issues in California that have been going on in the news and recently the insurance industry, they were successful in getting California's the last state of the union that said that you have to only base rates based on past historical data, not on these future models that are coming up because the insurance industry of course is going to pick future models. Future models typically show that there's going to be a greater likelihood of damage and woe is me, everything's going to happen. And they might be more accurate models but they typically then increase the rates that people are going to have to pay coming up. And, and California is the last state of the union fought that and last year the legislature changed that. And part of the deal was these insurance companies would stay in the state, would renew the policies. And that law, well it just came in effect this January 1st. The insurance, some of the insurance companies still kept canceling policies or non renewing them because their appetite for the especially the wildfire risk out there is, is, is very limited right now. And you know, to the extent they almost have proven like the safe bettor decides to take the chips off the table, that's exactly what happened. And they had this huge fire out there that just completely wiped out an area of, of Los Angeles that you know, I would almost think would never happen. And I know it's a Weird day. But you could go 15, 20 miles, you know, further up Malibu, you would almost expect it because it is. It's less urban. It's just hard. There's just not that many urban, truly urban wildfires that go on anymore. That's something almost from the late 19th century when, you know, portions of cities would burn down and we, we hardened our city infrastructure so that we wouldn't. And we changed building codes a lot so that we didn't. You run this risk of having a fire and burn down a quarter of New York City or Chicago or Charleston, all these, you know, fires that we read about historically. So this is something that's really amazing that just happened. A remarkable event that's very tragic, but also historically for me in the business, just astounding that this could happen.

[Leslie]

Well, I want to talk to you a bit later about. I know you've been very vocal about the importance of government getting involved in repairing and shoring up its infrastructure to prevent this kind of a spread of natural disasters, not just fires, but flooding and other things. And the importance of that as you look at sort of the broader societal impact of these, these huge weather events. But take me back though, is. Is that common that states have an elected sort of insurance czar? I've never heard of this. This is. Is this unique to California?

[Chip Merlin]

No, there's a number of states that do. I don't have off the top of my head what the states or minority of the states have elected officials. I think it's a. I think it's a good question to ask. Should we have appointed insurance commissioners? Obviously, the insurance industry does not want that to happen. They want to get to elected officials and do all the lobbying they possibly can to have a insurance insider appointed as the insurance commissioner to watch over the regulatory impact. And there's a lot of academic literature talking about the revolving door of these appointed insurance commissioners and the more senior staff then going to work back in the insurance industry and when they need them again to put them back as the insurance commission here. So they, the insurance industry sort of regulated themselves. And historically, you know, people forget the insurance industry is. Is one of the few industries like Major League Baseball that has an antitrust exemption. When the courts said, no, the insurance industry is subject to antitrust regulation, they went to Congress and Congress passed a law providing the exemption and then said, each state can now regulate the insurance industry. The insurance industry. And this was back in the late 1930s. The insurance industry responded to that by then lobbying each of the various states into how are we going to take care of all this. And this revolving door and state to state started coming up that's talked a lot about. And as a result of that, people like me, I represent policyholders, start saying, you know, is this the fox, you know, guarding the hen house?

[Leslie]

The fox is definitely guarding the hen house.

[Chip Merlin]

Do we need our own elected official like they do in a number of states, to be watching the insurance, you know, industry that is a social product? I mean, people forget insurance is unlike almost any other product. We agree together to be insured this way. So it's a pooling arrangement that we all agree to be part of. And so if you have a loss that does impact me and the social product needs to be regulated so they don't go broke, which historically they would do, so they don't deplete the coffers or their treasury. And then when the big loss happens, they're able to pay. And then, oh, the next problem is they start making insurance contracts that nobody can understand and almost doesn't pay anybody. So now we got to regulate the insurance contracts, you know, as well, and to force them to pay when they have this, because there's a lot of. It's a crazy product. It's unlike almost any other product that you, you, you pay your money up front not knowing if you're ever going to go collect on it. And you don't even get to see the product that you're buying. Nope. They don't provide you your insurance policy before you buy it. And so, you know, it's a very different product that's a social product and it is a very heavily regulated industry just for that reason.

[Leslie]

So walk me through this. So California has an elected commissioner. All the other states that don't have elected, they have their own commissioner. And that commissioner is there to help ensure that there are, there is insurance coverage in those states, but they're not subjected to antitrust laws, which means that there could be only one insurer or two insurers in a particular state that you are, you're. That you have no choice, basically, as a, as a consumer.

[Chip Merlin]

Well, so, you know, the states try to make it as competitive as possible and force insurance companies to make their products available as widely as possible. But you know, again, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that it might be more. There's a higher risk in certain urban areas where you might have riots, that you might have greater loss in areas where, where the less affluent live and they're not able to keep their homes up as well, and therefore, we only want to sell to people that are not likely to have a loss. And so it's sort of like an health insurance carrier only really wants to insure the most healthy if they possibly could. They don't have any losses. They don't. They want to, sure, people are not going to have cancer, not going to have heart attacks, not going to have any problems whatsoever. They don't want to ensure women are going to have babies. They want to insure the elderly. And it's sort of the same way, if you think about them, property insurance. We want to insure in areas where it's very, very low risk, get the most amount of money let. And while it's a pool, so it's a. It's a pooled product, let all the other competitors be over there. So there's even regulations about that, you know, regarding redlining that insurance companies are prohibited to do that the various states try to enforce. And so there's this cat and mouse game that's. That is constantly going on as insurance companies are trying to find and only insure the risks that are going to be more profitable for. For them. And they want to ensure. It's such a. It's a crazy thing. They want to advertise that they're there giving great service and all that, but nobody really advertises the product itself about really what does it really cover compared to somebody else. There's just no. You don't get a chance to compare one Apple to another. It's a very different product that everybody thinks is being the same and it's really not.

[Leslie]

So explain that to me what you're saying. So you're saying when you. So at least in my own experience with homeowners insurance, right, we have an insurance broker, and the broker will go out and I guess shop around our policy or our situation.

[Chip Merlin]

Right.

[Leslie]

This is where our house is, you know, actually in Millbrook. We're not in a. We're not in a flood area, you know, but with North Carolina, with Helene, I feel like all bets are off as to who's. What's an area that's at risk.

[Chip Merlin]

Right.

[Leslie]

I think you wouldn't have thought of that area of North Carolina being at risk of being flooded the way it was. But anyway. And then he comes back with the different rates from. From the different carriers. Is that process sort of a common process? And I guess we aren't seeing to your point any of the fine print of what that underwriter is providing. I mean, they do. Chubb will send A statement and kind of give an overview of amounts and things. But I tell us about that and what people should be kind of looking for and thinking about when they're going through that. The process of getting homeowners insurance.

[Chip Merlin]

That's a great question. In my book, Pay up avoiding a disaster with your own insurance company.

[Leslie]

Yeah.

[Chip Merlin]

Typically one of the first lessons I talk about is find yourself a great insurance broker or an agent. And one of the first things I talk about, there's a difference between an independent agent, one that can go to a number of insurance companies and try to look at the products that they got versus a captive agent. Captive agents are ones that might work for State Farm. All they can do is sell State Farm. I see you sell it for good to the nationwide agent. They even call themselves nationwide independent agents, but they're really not. They first have to sell the nationwide product, you know, and so they get stuck one to another. But so you have independent agents and then you have captive agents. I think that the relationship that the consumer has with their agent is really super important. And the more affluent you are, the more important it really is to have a great relationship with your insurance broker, your insurance agent, to know everything about your life from everything you own, what your dreams are, where you're going to, what your business is, what your lifestyle is, where the kids are going to go for school. You know, how you have your real estate, is it in a family trust? Is it named? And they will spend. These great agents will spend a lot of time with you or have customer service representatives that will really know your lifestyle so they can go out and based upon what your needs are. And especially if it's an independent agent, be able to shop the insurance for various products as well as have a discussion with you that's super intelligent about getting the right of product that that is affordable for you, providing the greatest amount of coverage. Most people want to see their insurance agent like they want to see their dentist.

[Leslie]

Yeah.

[Chip Merlin]

You don't go around saying, hot diggity dog, I get to go see my parents age. As a matter of fact, there's advertisements talking about, you know, you're. Because they think about life insurance and how, you know, people are portrayed that way or agents portrayed about just selling, selling, selling. And I would suggest, you know, for most of us, if we would spend a little more time with that insurance broker or agent today, that they'll be able to get you the best coverage at the best price that suits you. And not only that, now what we're finding is because the insurance industry truly is embracing this whole concept of resiliency. They can do certain things like suggest risk management steps that you could do at your home to make your home safer from fire, safer from windstorm, safer from theft, safer from water damage. Especially with newer technologies that are out there, you know, today that really are affordable for most Americans to go out there and do you get notice of a water loss so your water will be just shut off right away. And you know, all these various things that are out there for theft especially, I mean all these alarm systems that are available really lower the amount of theft that's out there. You know, now there's other types of theft where you might have to worry about bank robbers stealing all your money for the cyber theft, but that's a whole know different issue. But with respect to your real property. Yeah, a good insurance broker, a good agent will spend time with you making these suggestions of things that you can do so that your, your home, your business is, is more attractive to an insurance company that wants to insure you.

[Leslie]

So some of you may noticed that this podcast doesn't have any commercials or promotions and that has been so far on purpose. I've been really focused on our content and finding the best and most interesting guests to interview. But the other day I got a request from a potential sponsor and I initially told this person no, but I had a really hard time doing that because it was my husband who lives with me and is constantly nagging me to have an ad about his company that he founded and the CEO of. It's a propane company called Tank Farm. Now while propane is not a really super sexy product, except maybe to him, I've learned a lot about it being married to him. And for those of you that are not as familiar, propane heats your home and your hot water cooks food. It runs generators. In a lot of cases it also costs more than it should. And because most companies don't monitor their tanks remotely, people end up running out of propane all the time, which is kind of silly if you think about it. So Tank Farm is just a better kind of propane company. Its prices are lower, they don't charge any fees, there are no contract lock ins. Everyone who works there is super nice and they give you a free tank monitor and meter to make sure that you never run out of propane. It's simple, but it's kind of genius and people love it. You can look them up online. People also love Tank Farm's award winning app where you can track your tank levels Your usage and your pricing. My favorite part about Tank Farm, and yes, we too are customers, is what Tank Farm calls utility billing. By using the meter and monitor that they put on your tank, Tank Farm knows how much propane you use each month down to the 1 1,000th of a gallon. And that's all you pay for it. You only pay for what you use. That means no more giant bills coming from unexpected delivery. Which as the person who pays the bills in my house, I really appreciate. Right now, Tank Farm is delivering and operating in all of Connecticut, all of Rhode island and eastern Massachusetts. So if you live in any of those areas and you use propane or you want to use propane, you can find out more about Tank Farm and all of their amazing benefits by going to Tankfarm IO the interview. Or you can call them at 855-976-4141 and tell them you heard about them from the interview and they'll give you a credit of $200 of free propane, which is pretty great. So I'll say it again, you can go to tankfarm IO theinterview or call 855-976-4141, save money and claim your $200. And by the way, if you too want to advertise on the interview like Tank Farm, you can reach out to me at leslie the interviewwithleslie.com and we can get you or your product on the pod. I read an article that you wrote about how, you know, many people during and since after Covid have been working from their homes and have home offices and they assume that their home office is sort of insured under their homeowners, but it isn't always. So I think to your point earlier, and then people, you know, you have a fire and you lose all your equipment or your computer or whatever else, your data. You're saying that we all should be talking to our broker or our broker should really be partnering with us to walk through every single thing that we're doing in our home and then ways that we can help prevent a loss, whether it's security system or, you know, the water shut off, all those things. They should really kind of be our total advisor on all of those part issues surrounding your protection of your home.

[Chip Merlin]

I mean, how many entrepreneurs have started off in their garage and the next thing you know, the garage has turned into the business for a period of time.

[Leslie]

Jeff Bezos could have in that all of Amazon could have just ended right there had he not had the right homeowner's Insurance.

[Chip Merlin]

So, you know, you don't have things like that because it's not something that. Frank, who would think about that? People aren't. Look, even if they gave you the insurance policy to read, most people would fall asleep before they got the paycheck.

[Leslie]

Yeah.

[Chip Merlin]

You know, you don't understand that it's not there. And so I really do believe that if people would spend a little more time and, and I think purchasing insurance on the Internet, at least right now, is a very dangerous thing compared to going and spending some time with an insurance agents. And it goes through some of these discussions with you, and it's just a common question on the checklist is do you do any work from home? Are you contemplating doing any work from home? Do you moonlight in the garage? You know, try to. Because a lot of. That's where a lot of people start and do things. I'm here in my study right now. This is completely set up, you know, for me to work from home. And I think a lot of us are that way. So, yeah, those little things are often missed and sometimes really big time. If they ask you a question in your application, do you conduct any business from your home or on the premises and somebody puts no, and you do, the insurance company might be able to deny your entire claim in some states. So it's those little crazy things, people, oh my gosh, it really has a big impact, you know, and that's the last thing you want to have that ever happens.

[Leslie]

So how do you find a good independent broker? You mentioned independent versus captive. We all want to find independent broker. I have my person who's I think is terrific, but I, you know, I have to make sure we're going through some of these questions that you just mentioned. But where do people go to find a good independent broker?

[Chip Merlin]

I think you start locally. And a lot of people said he asked their friend and I don't think that's the best way. I truly believe today that if you put independent insurance agent and then you look for things like trusted choice so that they have certifications in there. I've literally wrote in my book, hey, if you want to do anything in life, you have a professional. And if you look at the insurance agent as a professional, like you look at your banker, you might look at stockbroker. You know, you want to find people that are really passionate about what, what they do, and they're going to be in entities that have certifications that they're going to be able to show. I often say insurance, more certificates. They have at least it shows that they have an interest enough that they're going out and getting all the knowledge that's available in their industry. There's other sort, again I mentioned trusted choice where they, the whole firm has to get approved and certified in order and meet certain standards with respect to how that agency is going to work. Certainly I believe the larger insurance brokers, you know, that are out there, the marshes and those types of companies are great because they do have certain standards and they have a broad base of knowledge and experience in dealing with people. If you're, you know, if you're a business owner and you also have your home, they want to know about that. I. And some of the services they provide are amazing. So much so, if you're very affluent, they might even suggest you can buy insurance. But why don't you participate in a captive insurance? And that gets very sophisticated, you know. For people that aren't that way though, I would look for a good independent agent. And if not, you know, if you do have a captive agent, the main thing is have a relationship with them to make certain that the additional coverages that are available, that person is going to spend time speaking with you about those and not just trying to find cheap insurance. Unfortunately, there is a whole set of insurance agents knowing that people want to pay as little as possible that really feed off. Oh, we can get you 15% off. I mean, that's the whole thing with some, you know, Geico insurance company that's 15% off could be disastrous to you and your life. If that's how you go about buying insurance because you're really buying, you're buying insurance for peace of mind and you're buying cheap insurance. You, you have no peace of mind whatsoever. And for just pennies more sometimes there's a lot better coverage out there through endorsements and other coverages out there that an insurance agent really looking for you will have a discussion with you and explain to you why it's so important to get and that these few more extra pennies, you know, pennywise pound foolish still applies especially for some insurance programs that are out there. So I always look for people that are leaders in the industry, local leaders that are participating, people that show real interest in what they are doing in their particular trade or profession. I think that's how most of us ought to treat, you know, everybody, you know, who wants to have a. Okay doctor.

[Leslie]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chip Merlin]

So you have a great doctor. You want to have a great insurance agent.

[Leslie]

Yeah, for sure. As we're having this conversation, I just realized how important it is to make sure that you do have the. That right person who's got all the certifications. Is you mentioned Trusted choice. Is that sort of like a Better Business Bureau or some sort of industry regulatory body or one that kind of identifies the best practices or the best companies?

[Chip Merlin]

It is, it's in the industry that's available. And if you. For insurance agents that are independent agents that want to apply for that, it sets a certain standard with respect to. And that's why if you have that standard, you're not just you, your whole firm has to meet it. I say, okay, I look for things like that rather than just somebody who's got a agency that's set up that they want to show the world that I have certain standards in me. Because anybody today on the Internet can advertise anything. And so how do you go about distinguishing people? And at least that's one of the industry standards that I would look for if somebody asked me, how do you go out and pick an insurance agent? And again, I would also look for people that are leaders in their local, regional, city, state, you know, regions out there as insurance agents and typically ones that not a one or two person shop, because a one or two person shop often is not going to have a broad enough availability of their own pool to attract enough other insurance companies to want to do business with them. And the question is, how come they're only in a one or two person shop versus attracting more insurance agents to work with them? So they're, you know, there's always exceptions to that, but that's typically what I do. And for people that as you become more affluent, you might even have to go to, you know, a risk management firm to take a look at that. So for those, for those that are the most fortunate that have, you know, family office that might have, you know, a lifestyle that you have two or three homes all over the world, you know, it might be going to a true risk management firm is sometimes the very best thing for you because your lifestyle, your business that might be combined with your lifestyle, if you own private planes, if you have yachts that you're doing and things like that that are all over the world, that is a different type and a very unique type of risk that typically can be sold for much better price and a much better product by going to a risk manager that'll put together a package, then actually takes the policy to the various insurers that are used to insuring people that might be that fortunate.

[Leslie]

That is interesting. So they would then put all kind of pool all those different assets together and then shop it for the best, best rate and best coverage. To your point, the importance is also the coverage and not just the cost.

[Chip Merlin]

I mean, and I do have friends and, and colleagues that, you know, have a place in Manhattan and a place in New York, and then they also work in Paris and they've got a boat somewhere else that's leased. Know 40%, 50% of the time. And, and if you, if you are a very unique individual with those types of unique circumstances, the type of product that might be available to the masses really might not fit your lifestyle. Most insurance products don't even contemplate the fact that you're not living somewhere. As a matter of fact, even snowbirds. I've had cases with this that just go back and forth from Chicago down to Florida or Chicago to Phoenix, New York down to Palm Beach. There are some insurance policies that if you're not at your house for 60 days in a row, a lot of the coverage lapse. I mean, so that means that all of a sudden you don't have all the coverage you need just because you've been down in palm beach for 90 days.

[Leslie]

Can we talk about the fine you just got my. I mean, I can't wait to be a snowbird, by the way, Chip, I'm not there yet, but I, you know, thinking about these things, you're kind of getting to the issue of the fine print, right? Where people are. There are certain things. And you mentioned earlier, insurance companies are looking for ways to get out of having to pay you should there be an incident. Really. I mean, so what do they need to do to protect themselves, to make sure that they have that full coverage? Or what do they do after they've had a disaster and they recognize that they're underinsured or not fully insured? And I think about Hurricane Sandy, right, Which my father, who's a good friend of yours, had a. You know, we had terrible damage. And to find out that most people in New Jersey and Long island who were devastated by that storm, it was water damage. And most people's flood insurance was capped, I think, at like $250,000 for, for the highest policy, which. And these are homes that, you know, would cost much more than that to, to rebuild. So how can people, you know, as you mentioned, you're not really looking at the product. How can they protect themselves to understand that they really do have full coverage, that they know about these weird things. If they're not there for 60 days in a row, their insurance isn't triggered or what. All these different circumstances and loopholes that the insurers tend to put in there, I think, to sort of catch us a bit.

[Chip Merlin]

Right, Yeah, I know. That's the worrisome part about not people don't understand their product and who's really going to read all the way through it to think all the possibilities that could possibly happen. And that's, that's why I do say again, the first thing, start with a great insurance agent that knows the product, knows you, knows where you're at. When you mentioned there's a cap at $250,000, I always think about this cardiac surgeon. That lifelong dream with his wife was to buy a house right on. Right on the shore, right on the Jersey Shore. And so down he goes to Manilok and buys this $6 million place and his insurance agent sells all. The most you can get for flood insurance is $250,000. And so he insures everything, you know, and the home for the full amount, except for the flood insurance, which is a separate policy for. And he could only get $250,000. Well, his house got wiped out. I mean, completely gone. Horrible story. I mean, I was still walking around down there taking pictures of, you know, the kids, you know, stuff and toys and all that kind of stuff. And I kept thinking, you know, you live right on the Jersey Shore. If you had to look around, what's your biggest risk of loss? You know, is the Atlantic Ocean. And the agent told him, you only have $250,000 worth of coverage. And there it is, it's written. But there's an excess insurance market that's out there that could have covered him for the full amount. And the doctor, is that right?

[Leslie]

So that's a case of a bad agent, because I feel like that happened. That was everybody's case down there.

[Chip Merlin]

We had to sue his insurance agent for errors and admissions coverage because the agent clearly gave him the wrong advice, had the money to go buy it. I mean, the doctor was doing very, very well, worked his butt off like a lot of doctors do, and could have afforded it and just got the wrong advice. And, and, and so, you know, it kind of goes back again. I don't expect people to realize the, what you just called the loopholes or the fine print and insurance contracts, because that's what I do for a living all day long. And so that when I do have, you know, I'm literally giving people put their, you know, because of tax or liability consequences, people will put a house into a family trust or to the LLC for various reasons. If an insurance agent is not sophisticated enough to ask how is the house actually titled? You know, so now they might put your name down there versus well, it should be the owner is the family trust that creates all kinds of coverage issues in many states, not all states, but many states that will create a coverage issue you might not even be able to collect. And so getting an agent that is enough just to know these things that go on is important. If you're seriously. I gave you the example. If you, if you happen to have any number of standard insurance policies that might be written auto owner, State Farm, Allstate insurance company. And there's not particular provisions with endorsements that talk about, well, I've got a home up here and a home down there. They could both be insured under the same insurance company. But you will lose some coverage because you're not physically habitating or occupying one of those places for a period because you're gone for three months, four months, six months, and the policy says, whether it be 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, you know that you're no longer occupying, it reduces coverage automatically. Most people don't know that. And again, the only way you've got to rely upon the agent. I don't expect people to be reading their insurance policies to fully understand that. I do that for a living. And I think, you know, again, I just. Based upon experience, none of us read our insurance policies. It's, it's.

[Leslie]

That's interesting. Chip?

[Chip Merlin]

Yeah.

[Leslie]

Can people hire you or, or people like you to actually read through their, their policy to help them identify what their risk areas are? I mean, it seems like that would be a smart thing to do if you have.

[Chip Merlin]

I mean, they can, but if.

[Leslie]

Or maybe an associate in your firm or a paralegal, they probably wouldn't.

[Chip Merlin]

But the truth is insurance agents are doing that for you and they should be doing this. That is their job.

[Leslie]

You know, let's say you're in the circumstance as the doctor. Right. You use that hypothetical and he could have had more coverage than he had and he was willing and able to pay it. And the broker there really drop the ball. Is that an avenue for people is pursuing the errors and emissions insurance of the agent? What about people in California that were dropped two weeks before the fire? They wouldn't have even had a chance to go out and shop a new policy or be, you know, they were stuck. Those people that actually were dropped. Right. Weren't there certain people that were dropped by their insurance companies and maybe some of them Wanted to go ahead and, and look for another insurance product but didn't have the time to do it. So you know, do they have a legal path forward?

[Chip Merlin]

Like they have a very limited path forward. And you know the, the duties of insurance agents, the legal duties of insurance agents vary from state to state. You know, New Jersey is very broad about insurance agents who are licensed have very broad duties with respect to providing advice to their clients. And, and because they expect insurance agents to perform to that level, most states look at insurance agents like McDonald's order takers. You know, you tell them what you want and then they provide it to you. The problem is most people don't know what the product is. How would they? It's a very sophisticated product. And so the law in my opinion is very pro insurance agent and almost invites insurance agents to be negligent in their job. And I think society should be demanding more of insurance agents because their role is extraordinarily important. And the advertisements that you see from major insurance companies where they make fun of people having losses, well it's not fun if you're the person having that loss. Find out that the small print prevents coverage. So let me get to answering your question though more directly because it is a problem everywhere the insurance industry with respect to non renewing policies. The first things are in the various states the regulators, you know, should start pushing and demanding insurance companies to provide a greater glide path of opportunity for people to go out and shop their insurance. So it shouldn't be just 30 days, but you know, it should be 60 and 90 days if you're not going. Sure me. This is supposed to be a long term relationship between the policyholder and the insurance company. And it's very difficult in some jurisdictions. I mean it's up in Long Island. I mean we had to start the Coastal Market Assistance Program, cmap. It became formal law just last year through the New York legislature because there's so many people being non renewed in the Long island areas and even in the boroughs just right outside of New York. And so that if you're close to the shore you're all of a sudden finding the insurance companies no longer have an appetite to insure you because they're concerned about another superstorm Sandy coming back and rightfully so. And the sea levels have been rising, you know, so what are we going to do about that? And California has to do with wildfires and the insurance companies not wanting to insure there. So we need a people have a longer period of time to be able to find that other Insurance, there's not too much people really can do legally if the insurance companies do it properly though with respect to the, you know, the non renewals of coverage from a societal standpoint, all we can do is have programs like cmap, like the California Fair Plan, like Citizens Property Insurance. In Texas they have something to Texas Windstorm Insurance Association. These are insurers of last resort now where you can't find insurance that you can go to, but you know, just giving people 30 days notice and that's it. You know, it does create somewhat of an issue but there's not much legal recourse to go back against them in the courts of some if an insurance company lawfully and properly decides to non renew or cancel your insurance policy.

[Leslie]

Well, I know you've been active in Florida with lobbying in Tallahassee around trying to create policy that protects the insured. It seems that most states, our state governments seem to be most interested in protecting the insurers for many of the political reasons that you mentioned earlier. Right. You mentioned this 30 day period for finding new insurance, maybe extending it to 60 or 90 days. What kind of policies do you think would be effective and important to have, you know, changed in certain states that people do have more coverage and just sort of, you know, better peace of mind. As a homeowner, I mean I do.

[Chip Merlin]

Just volunteer some of my time, not just in Tallahassee. At the end of this month I'm going to be with Amy Bach and we're going to be walking some of the halls up in Sacramento out in California.

[Leslie]

Great.

[Chip Merlin]

Amy's the executive director of United Policyholders but you know, for decades now it's just been her organization and some with Consumers Union. Bob Hunter, who's recently retired is the kind of the two big consumer advocates that that would raise some of the issues with respect to insurance practices from a regulatory standpoint about the selling of insurance, about the cancellations, the renewals and really looking out for the policyholders interest. But I mean I'm doing it volunteer and these other organizations are, you know, the consumer organizations that are just not as well healed. The insurance industry has a lot. I mean their lobby is like an army of. I know, and they're paid and they're extraordinarily sophisticated, you know, in terms of what they do. They talk with each other, they plan things out, they think about the messaging so that their words and how they get it out to, you know, to the legislators are also pre programmed to go out into the media with news releases and they are very good at what they do. And there is just nobody on the opposite side of that that's truly, truly professional except for the two people that I've kind of mentioned. There's been a few of us that do this volunteer, but that's not what I do for a living. And so it's an uphill battle, I think, for most consumers to find currently good legislation until events happen in our, our elected officials then say, wait, what's going on here? We really do need to make this change. We need, I think transparency in the marketplace is what you asked about.

[Leslie]

Yeah.

[Chip Merlin]

What's really going on with respect to the insurance companies making or, or losing money? Are they, do they have side agreements? I remember Hank Greenberg, even after the financial crisis, it came out that a lot of the people on the board of directors of AIG were getting paid completely illegally because it's supposed to be publicly disclosed, but they had a side agreement with respect to management contracts. You know, or in, in Florida we've had insurance companies who would go out and buy construction companies, family members might own an independent insurance adjustment firm that, you know, is also, you know, making 10 or 20% on, on just the claims as well too. So I think there is a need for transparency about the entire operations of these regulated companies that need to be dug in a lot deeper by our insurance regulators to truly find out how much money these insurance companies are making or possibly losing and the true need for the rates that are being approved. And this is just for the admitted market. You know, over the past two decades, the surplus lines market, which is largely unregulated, has been growing and growing and growing. I think just because.

[Leslie]

Sorry, Chip, what is surplus lines?

[Chip Merlin]

Surplus lines markets are insurance companies that are not admitted in a particular state. So the way it is typically worked in the past is that if you're not going to be admitted in our state, we'll allow you to sell insurance only after the insurance agents can't find insurance anywhere else with you. Now it's become much easier for insurance agents and brokers to place these risks with, quote, non admitted carriers because some of the regulations have been dropped. And, and so these non admitted, you know, carriers come in with all kinds of different products that, you know, they're almost undercutting some of the admitted market, but they also have products in the coverages that are simply not as good. We don't really know how much money they're making. A lot of them are the Lloyd's products. And, and don't get me wrong, there is a, there is a place for these products, but they are a growing competitor even to the admitted market that's completely unregulated in the United States. So I think there should even be more regulation with respect to them. And, and while we can't regulate their rates, at least their claims practices, their policies that are good soldiers. If Lloyd sells an insurance policy and it says, oh, if there's a dispute, we're going to have an arbitration in London.

[Leslie]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chip Merlin]

He's going to say, I had that happen. I literally had that happen. You really. I'm going to go all the way to London to go fight Lloyds of London in an arbitration, you know, for a loss that was in Texas. You've got to be kidding me.

[Leslie]

So that is crazy. I never thought so. Would you also. Would you include the antitrust legislation not being applicable as one of the things that you would recommend being overturned or having? You know, and I guess that would be a federal law.

[Chip Merlin]

So it's a federal law that would preempt everything that would scare the heck out of the insurance industry because they do share all this information about their losses. They do collude. They even act almost as an oligopoly in some areas to say that they're not sharing. They use the same consultants, you know, McKinsey and company are used by Accenture. So they share all their information, they share their practices. They, they vary somewhat, but you know, and they're able to do that under the guise of it not being violated antitrust. The truth of the matter is, is that I think they've gone too far on that and they could be subject to some antitrust behavior, but nobody's really prosecuted anything about this since the insurance industry. One last big event was when they were trying to take over the body shop industry. And in the late 50s and early 1960s, a consent decree came out, you know, indicating they wouldn't do that anymore. They wouldn't try to price fix or boycott against the body shop industry because they were just. The body shop industry was just getting wiped out by the insurance company trying to cut cost and how cars should be fixed and things like that. But every now and then I think it's good to remind the insurance industry that the reason why they've got all these protections right now is only because Congress allowed them to have this anti exemption. All this could go away in terms of them sharing all this information. So there should be, again, I believe transparency breeds honesty, you know, with respect to these things. And the insurance regulators should be digging in deeper with respect to these and we should have laws that allow this and as well as limit what they call trade secret type, you know, things that the insurance lobby has been able to get other laws passed indirectly nobody would think would apply to insurance but now they use so that the insurance commissioners can't even look at these things.

[Leslie]

Give me an example of something like that.

[Chip Merlin]

Well, recently we had a lawsuit brought by Slide Insurance company. It was a, it's a break off from Heritage Insurance Company and the insurance commissioner obviously is trying to find out whether or not there are some of these side deals with family members and the ownership of Slide Insurance Company. Are they doing any type of self deal feeling that the newspapers were being brought out that they had done at Heritage Insurance company for a period of time. And so the insurance commissioner is trying to dig into these things and, and if it was transparent, we might know what's going on. The Slide Insurance company literally filed a lawsuit saying whatever we gave the insurance commissioner can't be turned over and given to anybody else to expose any of this stuff because it's a quote, trade secret, you know, that nobody else can know about. I. And then of course, then it leaves, well, is the insurance commissioner's office really going to fight that lawsuit as hard as they might on behalf of policyholders? And, and the public would have an interest in knowing, knowing these things. And, and it's, and that's just one example. And I'm not saying Slide did anything wrong. How would I know? I don't have any right.

[Leslie]

You don't have the trade secrets.

[Chip Merlin]

You don't have the trade secrets. So you don't have these things. How can you say anybody's doing wrong? But it is awfully being skeptical. I would want to have transparency to at least show that. And they're saying that they don't want to be transparent. I think that is extraordinarily important. I think the transparency even in the claims practices that insurance companies have afterwards vis a vis their policyholders and the way we conduct our investigations into the claims practice needs to be completely overhauled. We do market conduct studies that rather than getting into the actual policies that the insurance companies and processes the insurance companies have, we only look for the results. Oh, did they respond timely back to somebody in 20 days. And then they take a statistical thing to come back out without looking at, hey, don't pay any claims on roofs in this particular area because we are a little bit out of money or we're not going to pay for it, period. We're going to take a hard noose approach and this is how we're going to go do it. And, and asking for those internal bulletins and memos that go out to the claims department where some insurance companies put, you know, profits over their policyholders, I think is we need to allow the insurance commissioners and our regulatory bodies to get those documents. And just knowing that those things could be turned over and would have to be turned over if asked for would probably stop the wrong practice.

[Leslie]

Exactly. Well, I think you're seeing a lot of that now, right. Of certain government bodies being exposed and people looking at what people are spending money on. It does make for more honest decisions. Right. When you're accountable for them.

[Chip Merlin]

Transparency is honesty.

[Leslie]

So as takeaways Chip, it seems like the most important thing people need to do is find a great insurance agent. And you've outlined ways for people to do that and really have the agent look through the policy, review the policy with them, get to know them to understand that they're actually being properly covered. If they have multiple assets in different areas, they might want to do some a risk management broker I guess that would look at their coverage. Anything else that we missed?

[Chip Merlin]

Well and how do I say the more financially fortunate you are, the more important insurance is to you because you have more to lose. And so it's a much more important hedge. And so typically as we get older we become more affluent. You know, this product really becomes much more important. And it is and it's because of that this relationship I think with most agents for those that are financially fortunate becomes that much more important. You know the next thing is I think especially people go to unitedpolicyholders.com that's the organization that Amy Bach runs. I'm on the board of directors. We have all, all this information that can help people with respect to some of the questions you've asked about non renewal cancellation in the various states, making recommendations if you think the insurance company has wrongfully canceled you, you should always ask or non renew your policy. Always ask the exact reasons why you're doing it. And that is right. You can complain to your insurance commissioner. That's something you can do Me filing a lawsuit over them canceling you most of the time is going to cost you more money and not even be successful just to go just to go do it. But the insurance commissioners are typically pretty responsive to improper non renewals. The last thing you know on that especially it's after the loss happens. You really need to read the insurance policy while you're giving every and insurance company some are out there looking to pay for coverage. You know, most of the time. Most of the time. Chubb Amica, Lexington Preferred Pure. Most. Most of the time. Not all the time or actually looking for ways for payment. But if you don't think something's right, you know, go seek professional help. And there's nothing wrong with that there. Most of the time I talk to people and I can explain what it is. But if there's a real issue and the insurance company's digging in and not paying properly, that's when they do need, you know, professional help. Don't. Don't just sit back and take no. When your gut's telling you it's something else or actually just reaffirm that the insurance company is proper, get a second opinion about their coverage issues.

[Leslie]

And I think you also mentioned in one of your articles about the importance of making sure that you have documented your assets, right? Meaning that, you know, you mentioned that most people, their experience with their insurance companies after they've experienced a loss. But if you don't have an inventory of your household items, for example, or photographs of them or descriptions or values or receipts or, you know, you want to have. You want a video, I think was one of the suggestions you made, right? You want to know what you have?

[Chip Merlin]

I think the video today, because we all have a camera on our phone, and all you got to do is put the video on and just walk along. Open up every single cabinet you got right little place the. You know, don't take this the wrong way, but women especially, I love how you all, you know, go through. There is a season and there's a month and the homes change dramatically. All that packed away, you know, for, you know, husbands who might have 10 set the golf clubs because they never want to sell them guns. They don't use whatever it might be, you know, that are out there, all their golf shoes that they.

[Leslie]

I'm actually doing. Did you talk to my husband? Because I'm doing that spring cleaning actually right now. It's, I guess it's midwinter cleaning.

[Chip Merlin]

But I mean, how often do people go back and take a look at all their Christmas stuff that over the years you accumulate and eventually what a, you know, beautiful area it is. You know, it could be everything for, you know, whatever it might be. Valentine's Day, just the fall and getting ready for Thanksgiving is different than what people are getting ready for in the. In the springtime. So you have all this stuff that's stored somewhere, sometimes in boxes. Just take a brief period of time with that cell phone, make sure. It gets up in the cloud somewhere. Send it to somebody else. And that's probably the easiest and best solution that I could tell to people to go do because nobody's going to write all this stuff down. That's just the craziest thing in the world to expect people. But you can pretty easily take an inventory of all your stuff. When you're making out your New Year's resolutions, what you're going to do, it's a great time to think about that, to go get maybe even an update of stuff that might have come in. Presents are exchanged typically over the holiday season, and you have all kinds of new stuff. It's also a good time to talk to your insurance agent. Things you just bought that you might need to have insured, that you didn't quite think about.

[Leslie]

Well, the minute that I leave the studio, I am going to call our agent because there are certain things that you raised about just the home office thing. And looking at that and preparing for this conversation, I thought, gosh, I never thought of that. I wonder if Jim Lindemuth, our great agent, knows about that we do work from home and that we have things at home and property. Anyway, I think it's one of many things that are great conversations to have with your agent about how you're really living and what kind of protections. I just have a friend who's supposed to go on a trip with me next week and she had a massive water leak at her house and she's having issues with the insurance company because then it becomes there's fault issues and all kinds of stuff. They're trying to work through that. But these are all important conversations to have, Chip, and I'm so glad that now I'll be having them with all of the great knowledge and information that I got from you who's truly on the front lines of this and true expert in this area. So I'm so grateful to you for being on and taking the time. I know all of my listeners will be, you know, much more prepared, in a much better position after listening to this great conversation with you. So thank you so much.

[Chip Merlin]

Yeah, Leslie, thank you. This has been wonderful and I hope somebody gained something out of it because it's really important for all of us.

[Leslie]

It is, for sure. I think seeing what's happened, you know, in the past six months between Florida and California and having those important conversations and understanding the importance of insurance, I think it's on a lot of people's minds. So very grateful to be getting, getting the advice from, from you, so thank you so much.

[Chip Merlin]

Great. Have a great day now. Thank you.

[Leslie]

That brings us to the end of this episode of the interview. A huge thank you to Chip Merlin for joining, and as always, thank you all so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate or review us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We release a new episode every Wednesday. So until next Wednesday, this is Leslie. And thank you for joining the interview.