Duologue with Leslie Heaney

Episode: Mahjong’s Modern Makeover: Entrepreneurship, Gameplay & Community with Kate LaGere
Guest: Kate LaGere, Founder of The Mahjong Line
Date: December 3, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores how Kate LaGere and her cofounder Annie O'Grady reimagined the world of American Mahjong through their company, The Mahjong Line. Leslie and Kate dive deep into Mahjong’s history, the creative journey of launching a design-focused game company, and the viral controversy around cultural appropriation that the founders weathered. The conversation sparkles with storytelling about entrepreneurship, community, game culture, and resilience through public scrutiny.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins of Kate’s Mahjong Journey

• Kate shares her introduction to Mahjong (05:29):
  • Annie, Kate’s cofounder, grew up playing with her family in Texas.
  • Kate learned from a memorable teacher, Marlene Stern, a "feisty, fabulous Jewish woman" at the Dallas JCC.
  • Mahjong is best taught by a skilled player and is hard to pick up just by watching.
  • "She would teach us Yiddish swear words appropriate to what kind of hand you have." [06:21]
• Initial market inspiration (08:00):
  • Kate was searching for a colorful, unique Mahjong set but found the market lacking accessible, original designs.
  • She found one OG company (Chris Lloyd) making artistic tiles, but at a prohibitive cost.
  • The idea: “If you can’t find it, create it.”

2. From Concept to Launch: Building The Mahjong Line

• Branding and product development during Covid (11:59-13:32):
  • Launch prep was underway before the pandemic; first tile designs arrived the day after lockdown.
  • Covid became a time for “beautifully creative, exciting” work; the duo dove into design and learned manufacturing—focusing on Pantone-specific plastics (most tiles are made in China).
• Mahjong’s history and American adaptation (14:00-16:28):
  • Originated as a men’s gambling game in China.
  • Brought to the U.S. in 1937 and standardized by a group of Jewish women (National Mahjong League), introducing the annual Mahjong card.
  • "They did what the men could not do, which was build consensus and standardize these rules." [15:12]

3. Mahjong as Community & Entertainment

• Game’s growing popularity (18:57, 20:25):
  • Covid’s need for safe, small group gatherings led to a boom in board and tile games.
  • First product launch (“sip and see”) was a socially-distanced backyard event.
• First designs (20:41):
  • Minimal Line: stylized take on traditional tiles.
  • Botanical Line: berries for dots, bamboo for bams, maple leaf veins for cracks.
  • Cheeky Line: playful and irreverent, with designs like “bags of flour” for the flower tile.
  • The Cheeky Line sparked later controversy.

4. Navigating Controversy: The Cultural Appropriation Backlash

• The “firestorm” (24:25-28:50):
  • In January 2021, social media erupted with accusations of cultural appropriation.
  • Major accounts amplified the issue, and clickbait media quickly spread the story.
  • "To say I was taken aback, or caught off guard, is an understatement..." [24:25-25:30]
• Press frenzy and safety concerns (28:50-32:33):
  • Kate called in a crisis PR firm; received death threats and had to involve law enforcement.
  • Not all negative—some members of the Asian American community reached out for thoughtful dialogue.
  • "The Asian American community is not a monolith. They all had different opinions. We spent a month meeting for coffee, truly trying to understand..." [31:00]

5. Lessons & Moving Forward

• Broader takeaways (33:47-38:15):
  • Social media pile-ons tend to be led by young people. Kate urges respectful conversation over hate.
  • The experience was harrowing but transformative: “You can have crazy things happen to you… it’s truly what you take from it, how you tell your story.” [37:44]
• Resilience (40:12):
  • “It didn't break me, but I can't say that's the case for everyone... this behavior is dangerous if you're targeting someone more vulnerable.”

6. Entrepreneurship, Community & Expansion

• Growth beyond the storm (39:00-42:44):
  • The company continued, now boasting 10 tile designs and 220 SKUs.
  • Expanded into rummy tiles and developed a robust ambassador network (~200 strong).
  • "Our products have had a part in [the growth of Mahjong]. And that's for sure what we're most proud of." [47:02]
• Mahjong as a social and creative experience (44:10-46:16):
  • The “tablescape” and personalized set designs have become part of contemporary hosting culture, especially in the South.
  • Younger generations, including teens and college students, are embracing and expanding the Mahjong community.
  • "You underestimate how smart you are. You can jump from one tile design to another... and it's very fun to have the personality of the person that's hosting come through." [44:24]

7. Recognition & Legacy

• Today Show appearance (47:50-49:51):
  • Recent national TV segment was a “full circle moment”—highlighting both American and Chinese Mahjong’s surging popularity.
  • Previous negative Today Show coverage became positive affirmation.
  • "It was so cool... a total full circle moment. They're just cool as shit." [47:55]
• Ambassador program celebration (49:57):
  • Over 200 women who teach and represent The Mahjong Line gathered in Dallas for the 5th anniversary.

8. Looking Ahead

• Future projects (52:06-53:31):
  • New games (beyond rummy, possibly backgammon and poker) are in development, applying the same creative twist.
  • "Mahjong is our soul and the community we built... but we know those players also yearn for other games and ways to connect." [52:52]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On why Kate did her first podcast:
  “I’ve been trying to be better about if my default answer is no to something, it’s usually because it makes me uncomfortable. And I’m trying to embrace being uncomfortable because that’s a very good thing.” – Kate LaGere [03:14]
• On starting The Mahjong Line:
  “If you can’t find it, create it.” – Kate LaGere [09:26]
• On the “personalization” of tile design:
  “You want something very personalized. It’s really fun not to play on the same set every time...the personality of the host comes through in the tablescape.” – Kate LaGere [44:24]
• On facing the backlash:
  “We had to get law enforcement involved due to pretty credible death threats. It’s bananas how quickly it spirals out of control.” – Kate LaGere [30:03]
• On lessons learned:
  “You will never persuade or convince someone to see your side of things when you’re wishing them dead or saying insulting things... There’s so much power in using your voice in a very effective way.” – Kate LaGere [32:41 & 35:19]
• On resilience:
  “It didn’t break me, but I can’t say that’s the case for everyone. When you’re in it, it is as scary as can be.” – Kate LaGere [40:12]
• On the communal aspect of mahjong:
  “Having that socialization aspect on a regular basis – that is the key to keeping us all super sharp. The game is really good for your brain.” – Kate LaGere [45:20]

Key Timestamps

• 03:04: Kate joins, shares about first podcast experience.
• 05:29: Kate describes her first exposure to mahjong.
• 09:26: The spark for The Mahjong Line.
• 13:32: Manufacturing in China, design process, and history of Mahjong in America.
• 20:41: Launching the first three lines; the Cheeky Line controversy.
• 24:25: Detailed account of the cultural appropriation backlash.
• 30:03: Security concerns and lessons about social media “pile-on” culture.
• 39:00: Continuing business post-controversy, major SKU growth.
• 44:10: Mahjong as a social and aesthetic experience.
• 46:16: Expansion to younger audiences, new community clubs.
• 47:50: Full circle: Today Show segment.
• 49:57: 5th anniversary celebration with Mahjong Line ambassadors.
• 52:06: Future plans for more games.
• 53:41: Lighthearted wrap-up; host and guest express mutual appreciation.

Tone & Language

The dialogue is conversational, candid, and occasionally irreverent (Kate: “they’re just cool as shit”). Storytelling is infused with humor, warmth, and openness—especially around personal vulnerability and business resilience. Both Leslie and Kate keep the tone inviting and relatable, aiming to inspire listeners with both the thrills and traumas of entrepreneurship as well as the enduring joy and community of gameplay.

Takeaway

Whether you’re an avid gamer, curious about the Mahjong craze, or seeking an inside look at creative entrepreneurship, this episode offers a compelling mix of history, innovation, and the very real challenges of bringing something fresh—and sometimes controversial—into the world.