One Man's Mission in Senegal - feat. Nicholas Fox Weber

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Interview with Leslie Heaney – "One Man's Mission in Senegal" Featuring Nicholas Fox Weber

Release Date: December 19, 2024

Introduction

In the December 19, 2024 episode of The Interview with Leslie Heaney, host Leslie Heaney engages in a heartfelt conversation with Nicholas Fox Weber, an accomplished art historian, prolific author, and dedicated humanitarian. The episode, titled "One Man's Mission in Senegal," delves deep into Nicholas's transformative work in Senegal through his organization, La Corsa, highlighting his unwavering commitment to improving health, education, and basic amenities in underserved communities.

Guest Background

Nicholas Fox Weber is not only the author of 15 books, including his latest work on Mondrian, but he has also served as the executive director of the Josef and Anni Albers Foundation for four decades. Leslie Heaney and Nick’s friendship began on a hiking trip in Italy, laying the foundation for their collaborative spirit and shared passion for making a positive impact.

Journey to Senegal

Nicholas recounts his initial trip to Senegal in 1999, catalyzed by a chance conversation with Dr. Gilles Dubois, a dermatologist who founded an organization providing medical care in Senegal. This encounter ignited Nicholas's mission to support healthcare and education in the region.

Nicholas Fox Weber [06:06]: "I think it's just the kind of... we can make a difference by taking those small steps."

Establishing La Corsa

Upon returning from his first mission trip, Nicholas sought financial support from the Josef and Anni Albers Foundation to aid Dr. Dubois's efforts. This initiative eventually evolved into La Corsa, an organization dedicated to sustaining and expanding medical and educational projects in Senegal.

Nicholas Fox Weber [18:36]: "La Corsa, which is the word in Pular for love, with respect, had become fairly active."

Key Projects and Achievements

1. Medical Support:

   • Medical Equipment Donations: Through partnerships with organizations like Project Cure, La Corsa facilitated the delivery of essential medical equipment to hospitals in Senegal. Nicholas shares the story of acquiring a new surgical bed after 11 years of persistent efforts.

     Nicholas Fox Weber [16:19]: "It took me 11 years, but finally I was able to fulfill that promise after I discovered an organization in America called Project Cure."

2. Educational Initiatives:

   • Girls' School Establishment: Nicholas played a pivotal role in establishing a co-educational school in a remote Senegalese village. Persuading the local Caliph, he secured approval to educate girls, transforming 220 children’s lives.

     Nicholas Fox Weber [31:55]: "We built a school where now 220 children, boys and girls, are learning to read and write in French and Arabic and some in English. It's game-changing."

3. Community Development:

   • Wells and Water Access: Installing wells provided clean water, enabling community gardens and livestock watering, thus significantly improving daily life.

     Leslie Heaney [38:01]: "They had installed a well there. And watching the ripple effect of just that one project and what it had done for this village from allowing them to not only have clean and running fresh water..."

4. Emergency Services:

   • Ambulance Fundraising: Inspired by the dire need for reliable transportation to medical centers, Nicholas’s son, John, successfully raised over $35,000 to fund a rugged ambulance tailored to Senegal's challenging terrain.

     Nicholas Fox Weber [26:18]: "John, in the course of a year, managed to raise over $35,000 working with his friends at his school, going to family friends and being incredibly resourceful."

Challenges and Cultural Integration

Nicholas discusses the logistical hurdles of transporting medical supplies, such as navigating customs for blood donations. Additionally, he highlights the cultural sensitivities involved in advocating for girls' education, emphasizing the importance of building trust with local leaders.

Nicholas Fox Weber [24:34]: "It's a climate that's terribly hot, up to 110 degrees Fahrenheit a good part of the time and can be very windy, which brings in desert sands."

Impact and Inspiration

Leslie reflects on the profound impact of Nicholas's work, noting how seemingly small contributions can lead to significant, transformational changes in communities. She underscores the importance of immediate, tangible actions over abstract charitable donations.

Leslie Heaney [38:46]: "What is next for La Corsa? ... Seeing how these small acts... can transform people's lives, it's very inspirational."

Broader Perspectives on Philanthropy

Nicholas addresses the common concern of prioritizing domestic issues over international aid, advocating for a compassionate approach that sees helping others, regardless of distance, as a familial responsibility.

Nicholas Fox Weber [37:25]: "We can do a great deal in rural Africa for significantly less money. When you know of a need somewhere, it just becomes very hard to resist."

Advice for Aspiring Humanitarians

Nicholas encourages listeners to engage with La Corsa by visiting their website, understanding their missions, and contributing in ways that resonate personally, whether through financial support or hands-on involvement.

Nicholas Fox Weber [38:46]: "Familiarize themselves with La Corsa, that they go to our website and develop at least some knowledge of what it is that we're doing."

Nicholas’s Literary Pursuits

Beyond his humanitarian efforts, Nicholas is a dedicated author. His latest book, Mandarin: Mondrian's Life, His Art, His Quest for the Absolute, explores the life and artistic journey of the abstract painter Piet Mondrian. Nicholas shares his personal connection to Mondrian's work, inspired by his childhood experiences.

Nicholas Fox Weber [43:12]: "It was a chance for me to explore him and the qualities of his art."

His forthcoming projects include a biography of Anni Albers and The Art of Tennis, which intertwines the aesthetics of art, ballet, fashion, music, and tennis, celebrating tennis as an art form itself.

Future Plans and Closing Thoughts

As the conversation draws to a close, Leslie expresses immense admiration for Nicholas's multifaceted contributions and the inspirational nature of his work. She encourages listeners to explore La Corsa's initiatives and consider how they can contribute to meaningful change both locally and globally.

Leslie Heaney [45:50]: "I know others that listen to you and learn more about you and La Corsa will feel the same."

Nicholas reciprocates the gratitude, highlighting the potential for future collaborations and continued positive impact through their shared efforts.

Conclusion

This episode of The Interview with Leslie Heaney offers a compelling narrative of Nicholas Fox Weber's dedication to humanitarian causes in Senegal, seamlessly blending his professional expertise in art history with his passion for social change. Listeners are left inspired by the tangible differences one individual can make and are encouraged to take actionable steps towards contributing to similar causes.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Nicholas Fox Weber [06:06]: "I think it's just the kind of... we can make a difference by taking those small steps."
• Nicholas Fox Weber [16:19]: "It took me 11 years, but finally I was able to fulfill that promise after I discovered an organization in America called Project Cure."
• Nicholas Fox Weber [18:36]: "La Corsa, which is the word in Pular for love, with respect, had become fairly active."
• Leslie Heaney [38:01]: "They had installed a well there. And watching the ripple effect of just that one project and what it had done for this village from allowing them to not only have clean and running fresh water..."
• Nicholas Fox Weber [31:55]: "We built a school where now 220 children, boys and girls, are learning to read and write in French and Arabic and some in English. It's game-changing."
• Nicholas Fox Weber [37:25]: "We can do a great deal in rural Africa for significantly less money. When you know of a need somewhere, it just becomes very hard to resist."
• Nicholas Fox Weber [38:46]: "Familiarize themselves with La Corsa, that they go to our website and develop at least some knowledge of what it is that we're doing."

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the essence of the episode, providing a detailed overview of Nicholas Fox Weber's impactful work in Senegal and his contributions to the fields of art history and literature.

Transcript

[Leslie Heaney]

Hello, this is Leslie, and you're listening to the interview with Leslie Heaney. I am so excited to introduce you to my next guest, Nicholas Fox Weber. Nick and I met in a hiking trip in Italy and became fast friends. He is an art historian, the author of 14 books. He's also been the executive director of the Josef and Anni Albers foundation for four decades. And he is a founder, supporter, booster, really everything for this organization based in Senegal called La Corsa. You know, I admire Nick so much. We all see things in life that.

[Nicholas Fox Weber]

We wish we could change or people.

[Leslie Heaney]

That we'd like to help.

[Nicholas Fox Weber]

Yet really, it's kind of the rare.

[Leslie Heaney]

Among us that actually does something about it. And Nick is one of those people. After a trip to Senegal with a doctor about 20 years ago, he saw communities and villages there that needed access to health, to education, really to basic amenities. And he has worked tirelessly since then to help support those clinics, those schools, those organizations throughout Senegal. My son John, who was 13 at the time, visited Senegal with Nick back in February of 2023 and got to see his incredible work and the work of La Corsa firsthand. So in this episode, Nick and I talk about his work in Senegal, how and why he. He got started, and just more about his spectacular and inspirational life as an art historian and as an author, but most importantly, as a humanitarian.

[Nicholas Fox Weber]

I think it's just the kind of.

[Leslie Heaney]

Conversation and inspiration that's so relevant this holiday season. So without further ado, here is Nicholas Fox Webber.

[Nicholas Fox Weber]

Well, I'm so thrilled to see you. For listeners, Nick and I are old friends. We met on a hiking trip in Italy, and you were my hiking partner. So we got to spend a lot of time together, and I learned all about Nick and his incredible and fascinating life. And will you just, just for listeners, take us, Nick, to kind of explain a little bit how you came to Paris and then when you first learned about what was going on in Senegal.

Absolutely, Leslie. Well, you know, I've for many years.

Directed the Joseph and Anni Albers Foundation.

They were two great artists at the Bauhaus school in Germany who emigrated to America in the 30s. And Anni Albers, who was a brilliant weaver, used to say, you can go anywhere from anywhere. And I feel that my life somehow exemplifies that because one thing led to another. And you asked how I went to Paris. I'd been traveling there quite a bit over the years for my writing. I'd written books on various French subjects, including the children's books about Babar and The artist Baltus. And then I, in 1999, I began to write the biography of the architect Le Corbusier, which required my going to Paris. And I also needed to go there because we were doing on Anni Albert's.

Show at the Musee des Arts Decorative.

And my younger daughter, terribly bright, was not really doing very well in high school. She clearly needed a change of scene or something. So my wife and I decided that Charlotte would enroll in a school in Paris and we would see how that went with the idea that it would be for six months. And I would begin my research and then we would return home. And in little time we discovered that we were both flourishing. We decided to move from a sublet.

Apartment to our own apartment.

And Charlotte was doing so well in school that that was the answer for her. And as we settled in there, and.

This is an example of how you.

Can go anywhere from anywhere. Charlotte, at first she was in a local bilingual school and it wasn't working.

Out after day one.

And I panicked as a parent and thought, how could I put my kid.

In the wrong school? 16 is such an important age. And I looked in the Yellow Pages.

It's in the old days, before you could Google everything. And the Yellow Pages was how you found things. And I looked up international schools and I waited until the first possible moment.

In the day when someone would answer.

The phone and I called the International School of Paris. And by 10:00 that morning, Charlotte was.

Enrolled in this wonderful school.

That's amazing.

A few months later, I needed a dermatologist.

Charlotte was going to our family dermatologist.

And I thought it isn't really tactful.

To go to the same dermatologist that you're a teenage child.

It seems sort of claustrophobia making.

And so I turned to the Yellow Pages.

This seemed to be the way that I.

It's your go to.

It's your go to found things in life. And I saw that there was a dermatologist named Gilles du Guard, and I.

Thought, well, you can't have a more.

French name than Gir du Grois.

That'll be very good for my French.

And his office was a bike ride away.

So I thought, fine, I'll go to him.

And I went to Dr. Dagueloire, and I speak French with a strong American accent. But he asked me several questions and then told me that he had founded.

An organization that provided medical care in.

Senegal and that there were a group of doctors in Paris who, on an entirely voluntary basis, went to Senegal three.

Or four times a year on sort.

Of a mission to provide medical care and to support local medical centers there.

And they were engaged in a range of projects.

Lastly, I don't know why, but I said to him in my Connecticut accented French, je vous bien, y allez avec fou, monsieur. I'd like to go there with you. And six weeks later, I had purchased two new duffel bags, one of which had my things.

And he told me to arrive with.

An empty duffel bag, which I filled with toothbrushes and toothpaste for 250 kids at a school in the Senegalese city of TS because Dr. Dubois organization called the Kinkelibe, had provided them with running water.

They had never had running water at.

This school and running water.

So give me a time frame for this. Is this 25 years ago?

Yeah, this is still.

I mean, I went in 1999, and.

This is now 2002 by the time that I got to Senegal. And the girls at the school now had an opportunity to brush their teeth, which they'd never been able to do without running water. And so we gave toothbrushes. And Dr. Jaguar in his duffel bag, had blood, a supply of blood that was needed at Tombokunta Hospital. There was a blood shortage. And as a doctor, he was able to transport blood, which is a tricky business, through custom.

I was going to ask you about blood blood through customs. Sounds like that he would need to have a special visa for that or some kind of.

Absolutely. I mean, I had a highly qualified doctor, though, and he was okay to do it. And what struck me, Leslie, was this is amazing. You know, we all want to do things in life that make a difference. And sometimes you think, what really is going to help other people? And you can go to an expensive charity benefit and sit there and everyone.

Feels rather good about himself.

But then you can wonder, did the money really go to the purpose I had in mind, or what is this doing? And when I saw that one could deliver blood, one could deliver toothbrushes, and that Dr. Tagua and his colleagues had built amazing small medical centers and were.

In the process of developing another medical.

Center and that they had created sort of like a campus for high school girls you have been there, called the foyer de Tombacunda. And they built this campus so that young women, rather than being forced into early marriage in their villages or being.

Made to have children starting at the.

Age of 12 or 13, could go to the foyer, live beautifully, attend the local high school, and control their own destinies. And I thought this was Fantastic. If we're going to have an impact on the world, what more can we do than to enable young women whose lives would otherwise not really be their own to control, but enable them to pursue their education and eventually go into.

Leadership roles for the world?

Well, I think, Nick, the thing that struck me so much about this story and its experience when you first told me about it was that a lot of us see things that they wish were different, right? You see someone who's homeless on the street, or you see other need in the world and you think, oh, gosh, that's terrible. I hope somebody will do something, or I wish something could be done for that person or that organization. And so few of us say, I want to go see what you've done, and I want to see how I can help, or buy the second duffel bag and fill it with the toothbrushes and the toothpaste. And so it was such an inspiration to me to hear your story that when I said to you, nick, will you come on the podcast? You know, the reason why is because I just think other people and listeners and need to, you know, be inspired in that way, because it is as simple, really. It's just taking that first step, right? You took that first step and you went on that trip. And I think you told me when you went with the doctor, there were no real roads, right? There's really only one main paved road there now.

Everything was extremely simple. And where we stayed was certainly.

I mean, it was adequate, but it.

Certainly was not cushy.

For many years, the lodge we stayed.

In only had electricity running for four hours every morning. And otherwise, you just toughed it out. And I found it very exciting from.

The word go to realize that I.

Was with people whom I would describe as fairly privileged, able to live pretty much as they wanted. They were men and women about my age or older. If they had wanted to, they could have just been living in luxurious apartments in Nice and enjoying the sunny weather and not bothering themselves to do anything different. And yet these people had made the choice to use their free time and their own funding to go to an.

Area of Africa where the needs are.

Enormous and to roll up their sleeves and really make life better for people. And I was terribly impressed by it.

When you mentioned that you said a country in Africa with great needs. I thought it might be helpful to just give a little background on Senegal itself. Listeners probably know it's in West Africa, but size of the country, what is the economy sort of based on religion, things like that, by all means, Senegal.

Is a relatively small African country on the west coast. It's about the size of Ireland. It lines up geographically with Ireland.

If you were to draw a straight.

Line up the map from Dakar to the points of County Kerry. It was settled by the French. Its population is largely Muslim.

One of the very unusual things about.

It is that the Muslim and Christian communities get along absolutely harmoniously. There are people who work together from both religions. And it's quite wonderful to behold a lack of tension in an area where there's often tension. Senegal was an early democracy. Its first prime minister was a remarkable man named Leopold Senghor, who was a poet and one of the first artists or poets to become a head of state. And it's a very welcoming country and a very easy one to be in. I knew nothing about it when I.

Started to go there.

I don't think I could have told.

You where Senegal was on the map.

I knew that it was in Africa.

Very little beyond that.

I didn't realize that there are many different languages spoken there. Well off, and pular being the main ones. It's not a particularly scenic country, except for certain areas, and I think that's an important point. We don't go there because it's, oh, so beautiful. You have to see the landscape. We go there because in a rather flat desert landscape, it's the real world. There are millions of people there who need things and who are, in a sense, quite isolated.

So you have this experience. You go with the doctor for your first time. You see how just by bringing the blood, by bringing the toothpaste and the toothbrushes, that you're. You're making a direct impact.

Right.

You're seeing what.

Yes.

How you can make a difference just right there by taking those just small steps or. Or big steps. You go back to Paris, and then how do you get more involved in the organization when you get back?

For many years, I've been running the.

Joseph and Anni Albers foundation, as I mentioned.

And I went back and asked my fellow trustees of the foundation if we could offer some financial support for the work in Senegal. And I thought, Dr. Tagua is doing such a great job, we should be able to get him some American money. And also, it was just my instinct, on that first trip, I was in.

A hospital in Tomva Kunda. You've been in that hospital.

And at that point, the only surgical bed was broken. It was wretched. It had broken legs. You couldn't adjust anything.

And it was the only place to perform surgery.

And I coming From a world that has access to many things said in my Blythe way, oh, I'm sure that we can get you a new surgical bed. Thinking that back in Connecticut, where I was living, or in Paris, where I now had friends, or in Ireland, where I have a house, I would find.

A doctor, a hospital, someone who would.

Have an old surgical bed. And I was brought up very few rules, but one of them was, if.

You say you're going to do something.

You have to do it. And I felt absolutely terrible. I could not locate a used surgical table or. Or the equivalent. And it took me 11 years, but finally I was able to fulfill that promise after I discovered an organization in America called Project Cure. And Project Cure takes used hospital equipment and medical supplies and sends them to places in the world where they are needed. And the deal with Project Cure is that they'll send the supplies if you will pay the transport. By then, in the course of 11 years, I had created the organization that was initially the American Friends of La Quinque liba to support Dr. Du Gua's organization. Then his organization eventually disbanded. But we had now created a really active support group. We changed the name to La Corsa.

Which is the word in pular for love, with respect.

And we had many supporters and now.

Had become fairly active.

And Project Cure, I discovered, would deliver half a million dollars worth of medical equipment if we, in turn, would pay for shipping and for building a container, which would be a total cost of about $30,000. That seemed like a reasonable deal. And we went with a representative of Project Cure, a volunteer doctor who checked.

Out sites all over the world to.

See if they qualified for receiving equipment from Project Cure. And they were checking to see if.

The work in Senegal warranted one container.

And they ended up deciding that the needs were so major, so substantial, that it merited three containers. And so within a year or two.

Lots of medical equipment went to Tomvakunda.

Hospital, and they got those surgical beds, and they got a great deal more.

It's. And I've seen those. All of that, that equipment, that new equipment for the hospital, which is, as you said, used equipment. But what a terrific thing, and what a terrific way to take that organization and what they're able to provide and what they're offering and make such a substantial difference for the lives of the people in Senegal. The other thing that I'll say that you've done, which I think is just so creative and so special, is that you've married your interest and your passion and your expertise in Art and architecture and art history in your projects in Senegal. So that hospital has been sort of added to. And you had a very well known architect come and create a waiting room. Because before there was not a waiting room. People would just sort of gather outside of the hospital while their loved ones were being cared for in the hospital. Because Senegalese, they don't. It's not like America where you drop somebody off or one person goes in with you. The whole. Because people come from such far distances, everybody comes. I think I'm getting that right, Nick, you know much better than I. And so it's just such a beautiful and cool looking, for lack of a better word, hospital. Tell us about that piece. And you did the same thing with the school as well.

I've been very fortunate to be exposed to great art and architecture since I was quite young. And it seems that there's no reason to build ordinary, industrial, unappealing buildings. It could be just as easy to build something beautiful. And our first project in Senegal, where we were able to build something wonderful.

Was an artist retreat, which we called Thread, in a village called Sinteon, where.

We had a medical center. And because I tend to talk to.

Anyone who's willing to listen about this work in Senegal and pretty passionate about.

It, I had met a wonderful architect named Toshiko Mori who had worked on an Albert show in New York.

And when I talked to her about.

Senegal, she was so excited that she made it.

She made the project for an artist retreat the subject of a seminar for.

Her students in the Harvard Graduate School of Architecture.

And eventually one of the students came.

Up with such a good design that Toshiko reworked that we built this beautiful artist retreat. Then we were asked to build a school in a Muslim village. And again, Toshiko came up with an extraordinary design. And this work has been published all over the world and won many prizes and so on, because it's really an unusual example of wonderful building in a difficult climate, using local materials and at relatively little financial expenditure.

When we decided to build the pediatric and maternity units of a hospital, I.

Thought, well, it's time again for a great architect. And Toshiko felt that she had already.

Done enough projects that someone else should.

Be given the opportunity. And we set up a competition. We got names from every possible source.

And it was a curator at the.

Museum of Modern Art in New York who recommended a Swiss architect named Manuel Hertz. And Manuel Hertz said he wouldn't come up with a design until he had.

Gone to the city of Tomvaakunda.

Where we were building these hospital buildings and looked at everything there and then come up with a design. And so he built these extraordinary structures that you saw.

Well, one of the challenges, if I recall, for that, for that architect in that design, was trying to keep. There's a lot of dust.

Yes.

Right. And so they were trying to figure out how to keep it in some spaces, open air, so that you had, you know, you didn't have to have temperature control in all of the different areas, but have it be designed in such a way that you were keeping dust out of operating rooms and treatment rooms.

That's exactly right.

It's a climate that's terribly hot, up.

To 110 degrees Fahrenheit a good part.

Of the time and can be very windy, which brings in desert sands. You know, Leslie, I'm struck that doing a podcast, one can almost hear the smiles in people's voices and speaking with you with so much of this conversation, I, I see your smile, which conveys a sense of the really wonderful things that you've seen in Senegal. And I'm struck by this notion that you can go anywhere, from anywhere, the way that you and I met, which, as you said, was hiking on trails not too far from Rome, part of sort of a fitness retreat. And we started talking and many people voice polite interest in something. But you went much further. You not only were interested, but you decided to go to Senegal yourself, that it sounded like such a worthwhile project. And you brought along your son John, who at the trip, I'm not sure.

Whether he was 12 or 13 at.

The time of the trip.

He was just 13.

Yeah, he had just turned 13. And he, at age 13, closely observed.

Aspects of life in Senegal. And he took it upon himself to do something.

So it was remarkable. We went to a medical center in a place called Wasadu, and we saw that the only ambulance was just a pathetic vehicle in terrible condition, hardly able to deal with the difficult roads there. And there was a crying need for an ambulance. And John decided that he wanted to raise the money for an ambulance that could go to villages very remote, pick.

Up patients and bring them into the medical center.

Now, one pictures the sort of ambulance we know here in America. But in fact, an ambulance in Senegal is a refit pickup truck that can deal with the terrain and where the.

Back of the truck is made into.

An acceptable place for a patient for his or her transport. And John, in the course of a year, managed to raise over $35,000 working with his friends at his school, going to family Friends and be incredibly resourceful. And for me, it's just a remarkable story of how someone with compassion and energy and brought up with good values.

Can make such a difference in the.

World at a young age.

Well, I. Nick, that's so kind of you, and you're getting me verklempt over here at the table. But I, you know, truly, it's your inspiration, and I wish everybody who's listening could go. And actually, anyone who's listening that wants to, I'm sure Nick would be happy to take to go see all the incredible work that he's doing in Senegal that his organization is doing. Because I think when you see these tangible, achievable for Americans ways that we can help. You know, it struck me in one of the villages, they built a. You mentioned the girls when you went for the first time, girls brushing their teeth with the running water, right. That they had installed a well there. And we saw a new well that had been put in this village. And watching the ripple effect of just that one project and what it had done for this village from allowing them to not only have clean and running fresh water, but to let them have a community garden and have ways to water their animals and have livestock, it just absolutely transformed a village. And I asked someone who was with us on the trip, I said, so what is the cost of installing a new well or drilling a new well? And it's about $10,000. And when you see the impact that that can have on so many people's lives and transform people's lives, it's very inspiring. It's very inspiring. And, you know, the seeing just how these small acts or small gestures for us from where we're coming from as Americans in a country that has such great resources, seeing how having those simple access to what we sort of take for granted here and what a transformative thing that can be for people in other countries, particularly Senegal, it's very inspirational. And I think, you know, the more people who are aware of it and see it, see ways that in which they can. They can make a difference and they can get involved. The other thing that you did that I thought was just so extraordinary, and I don't think I realized it before we went, but you talked about the girl boarding school, but there was a school that. And I think it might have been the same village where boys had traditionally been allowed to go to schools, go to school, but girls were not. And you went and brokered that deal, really, that nobody thought you'd be able to do, which is with the Khalif to get the Khalif, who's the religious leader in that area, to give you the green light to allow girls to go to school there.

You're absolutely right.

It was remarkable. We came to know a very remote village on the far side of the Gambia river, that one reached in a dugout canoe. And the village chief was very pleased with a small medical center where we had built a maternity unit. And we had also provided a generator for electricity and running water.

Absolutely essential for a medical center.

Yep.

And we then learned from the village chief that he wanted a school. But we were so excited with the medical center and the. As I said, the village chief said.

They needed a school.

There was no school. Basically everyone in the community was illiterate. They could speak Quranic Arabic and read Quranic Arabic, but that's not the same as everyday Arabic. And they have access to no other language. And so I decided we should try to build a school.

But that required.

The approval of, as you said, the Caliph, the chieftain of the entire region. And at first, he was not in favor of the idea. I had met with him, and I said in French, which was translated into pular, that we wanted to build a school for girls and boys. They needed a school for about 220 people. And he said in French, we have to think about it. And I thought that would be a no. But with a local doctor, I really stayed after the Caliph.

I arranged to meet him a second time in France.

And, Leslie, this man, a religious leader, struck me. And I may be naive, but as one of the most compassionate, caring human beings I've ever encountered, when I spoke with him about the kids and our hope that they would learn not just the usual academic subjects, but be trained in agriculture and fishing, the villages on a river, he was deeply interested, and finally he agreed. And indeed, we built a school where now 220 children, boys and girls, are learning to read and write in French and Arabic and some in English.

And it's game changing. People from other villages want to go.

There, send their children there, and so on.

It's incredible. And I remember we went to go when we were there visiting with you, to go have an audience with the Caliph.

Yes.

And that was quite a ceremony. Right. He said, I don't think we have any equivalent in the United States. A bishop wouldn't cut it, or even a cardinal wouldn't. I don't know what the equivalent was. It's almost sort of like a combined government leader and religious leader. Maybe more of a pope, a medieval pope, kind of a figure. And it had that sort of pageantry to it to have an audience with him. And he wanted to. You wanted to meet with him and he wanted to see you to get an update on how things were going with the school. And all of your colleagues in France, from what I recall, were just sort of said to you, there's no way he's ever going to agree to allow girls to go to school. And somehow your argument, your persistence and your charm, Nick, got him to agree to do that. And he said to you in that meeting, I think that he's actually quite pleased that he's come around and sees the benefit of girls knowing how to read and being educated in the village and seeing the impact that that can have.

You describe it so nicely. Indeed. That was a wonderful visit that we had with the Caliph in the village of Matina Gunas in a setting which was almost like a temple in its feeling. And I remember one visit with the Caliph when as a mark of our friendship, he gave me a live goat.

Right, I forgot about this.

That was a little bit difficult to deal with. I wanted to be, but I couldn't imagine taking a goat either back to.

France or onto America.

Even though my grandson who was on that trip was there then, about five.

Years old, was terribly eager for me.

To keep the goat. That was impossible.

The goat is now in a field near the village of Sintian.

And the rapport with the Caliph would give you just great, great faith in humanity. The idea that people from so many different walks of life can be deeply caring about the well being of children, giving children access to the future and so on.

So I think, you know, people have said this to me and I think we're all, you know, so many of us want to get involved with different causes and want to support so many important projects that are happening both in the US and abroad. Some people will say to me, so, oh gosh, you know, why should we be investing or be interested in what's happening in Africa when there's so many problems and causes here at home? What would be your response to a comment like that?

Well, we want to make a difference where we can and when we've encountered need, our natural tendency is to try to help. And I treat La Corsa in many ways as if I'm dealing with an extended family. And if some of my family members live 4,000 miles away, I'm still going to care about them as if they're family members. Truth is that there is so much to be done in the United States.

So much to be done at home.

As you say, which I completely support and am fond of. But we can do a great deal in rural Africa for significantly less money. For one thing, I don't have the means to have helped finance buildings at a hospital in New York. And fortunately, there are people who will help with that. And when you know of a need somewhere, it just becomes very hard to resist.

I think that's right. And I think for me, as I mentioned a little bit earlier, just seeing the impact that, you know, small projects can have such a huge impact there and really transform people's lives. $2,000 can truly transform hundreds of people's lives. I mean, with those wells, for example, I mean, people were coming four and five hours a day, you know, with a donkey and a cart to go fill up cans, you know, big jugs with water to bring back to their village. Okay, so for people that are listening and know who have been inspired by you, because I'm so inspired by you, and I know anyone else who listens to you will be as well. But. And they see something and they. They want to do something, where would you tell them to start? What advice would you give them?

Well, I would suggest very specifically, and I'm smiling as I say this, but that they familiarize themselves with La Corsa, that they go to our website and develop at least some knowledge of what it is that we're doing. And my hope would be that they would see something that we're doing which strikes them as particularly worthwhile. Could be something like that ambulance which.

Your son has made possible and which serves such purposes.

It could be something like the facility that enables women to pursue their futures.

It could be our women's health center.

In Dakar, where women of very limited financial means get great prenatal care, which is just so vitally important, and that they decide what it is that interests them.

We are very receptive to people being.

In touch, letting us know if they have any interest in helping, whether it's rolling up their sleeves and being there or contributing financially.

Well, next time you have one of those trips, Nick, where you're bringing over people on your board or journalists. So you had someone who was from the Yale Art Museum who was going on the trip that I was on, just direct message me, and I can connect you with Nick to go on one of these incredible trips to see firsthand what a difference he's making. Okay. On a totally unrelated topic, when you're not doing all the incredible work that you're doing with La Corsa, you are a writer, an art historian, and you've just written another book that's just come out about Mondrian. Can you. It's about his life, his art. The title is Mandarin. His life, his art, his quest for the absolute. What number of book is this for you? Is my first question. And then tell us a little bit about the book and why you decided to write about him.

Well, it's my 15th book and I decided to write about him because I'd written some biographies of significant artists and.

Reached a point in life when I.

Thought I had one more really big biography in me. It takes about 10 or 12 years to go from the initial research to the final book. And I was speaking with the director of the Tate Museum in London, who's.

Been a nice reader of my work.

And I asked him who was left.

Of the great masters of the 20th.

Century where there was no biography. And he named the artists Leger and Mondrian. And I told him that When I was 10 years old, my mother had had a painting at an exhibition in a museum in Hartford, Connecticut, the wonderful Wadsworth Athenaeum.

And I had gone to the opening.

Of the exhibition and was very restless. A 10 year old doesn't love being with.

Being the only child with hundreds of.

People and eating absolutely repugnant crustless tea sandwiches.

And I asked my father if I could wander.

And I went upstairs and I came.

Downstairs after 15 minutes and I said.

Daddy, you've got to come up with me. There's something I love the way I love mountaintops and skiing. Dad went upstairs with me and we looked at a very simple painting, basically a vivid blue rectangle surrounded by a.

Black grid and a white background.

And my father said, well, very good, Nikki.

That's by an artist called Mondrian.

Mommy and I have a book about his work at home. And it was the beginning. And I'm at the stage in life, Leslie, where it's related to the work. For Nicorsa, I feel that I've had some good luck and I want other people to have some of the same fortune.

And part of my fortune is being.

Able to enjoy art by someone like Mondrian.

And the book has given me a.

Chance to explore his motives, his personality, and possibly to understand why it is that his art can be so extraordinary for people to look at. Modrian became so popular that his paintings became the best basis of dress designs by Yves Saint Laurent, Pierre Cardin. They'd become the basis of building facades. And they're very beautiful to look at. And it was A chance for me to explore him and the qualities of his art.

So I know that the next thing for you right now is a tennis game that I'm. I'm maybe keeping you from. You've got about 10 minutes to get there. But what is next for.

For you?

I mean, what is. Is there another book that's next? What. What's next for La Corsa?

There are two books in the works. I've recently written a biography of Anni Albers, which I've now handed in. It's scheduled to be published by Yale University Press. And fittingly, because of my schedule today, I have another book which is supposed.

To come out next year, which is.

Called the Art of Tennis. It makes links between art, ballet, fashion, music, and tennis, talks about tennis as an art in itself, and recounts stories of certain rather fabulous tennis players where I'd like people like your son and my grandchildren to know who they were. So there are profiles of certain great tennis players from the past, like the man with the wonderful name of Bunny Austin, who broke the boundaries so that people could wear shorts at Wimbledon, the wonderful Althea Gibson, who was the first black player at the US Open in Forest Hills. And I tell their stories and the great joy about writing about tennis.

Oh, I can't. You know, the next book after that that you need to write is your own autobiography, because you've just led the most extraordinary, fascinating, and inspiring life, Nick. And I'm so inspired by all the work that you do. And I know others that listen to you and learn more about you and La Corsa will feel the same.

Well, you're so lovely and encouraging. You have such a gift for making one feel. Actually feel quite good about what one. Well, and conveying the value of things.

Your responsiveness is a beautiful quality.

Oh, thank you, Nick. Well, I'm so happy to see you. I wish we were doing this in person, but I'm glad I got to see you by Zoom for an hour and I have to go back and book our next trip and bring the rest of the kids over to see all the incredible work that you're doing over there.

And that would be fabulous.

Or.

And. Or dinner in Paris. We've got to get some plans on.

The books or for that. You bear.

Oh, so great to see you. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much. Wonderful to see you.

[Leslie Heaney]

That brings us to the end of this episode of the interview. A huge thank you again to Nicholas Fox Weber for joining, and as always, thank you all so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We release a new episode every Wednesday and until then. This is Leslie and thank you for joining the interview.